For those who have actually used peptides...

[burlyman30]

I've read the theories and the different timing protocols of dosages, but the fact is, this ol' lab rat simply does not have the time to do 2 or 3 injects daily. This rat is way too busy to move the timing of his meals around so that he can optimize his injection protocol and maximize the GH release. Have any of you dosed your rats pre-bed only? If so, can you comment on the effects?

Thanks in advance.

[USN HM 350Z]

interested in this also.

[olddawg]

I think I've seen a lot of others who have said they like the once a day pre-bed dose. But what does like mean? I've tried 3x a day, tried pre bed, and couldn't really see shit over a 3-4 month period. In me, I couldn't really notice much. it was hard for me to distinguish what, if any, effect the peps had compared to the regular cardio, diet. I still have a bunch of ghrp2 and mod 1-29 sitting in the closet along with 2 boxes of slinpins. Not sure I'll ever use it up. For me personally, peps compared to real gh are like ph's compared to aas. Or, no supps compared to taking creatine. If I ever look to boost my gh again it will be with real gh not peps.

[burlyman30]

I think I've seen a lot of others who have said they like the once a day pre-bed dose. But what does like mean? I've tried 3x a day, tried pre bed, and couldn't really see shit over a 3-4 month period. In me, I couldn't really notice much. it was hard for me to distinguish what, if any, effect the peps had compared to the regular cardio, diet. I still have a bunch of ghrp2 and mod 1-29 sitting in the closet along with 2 boxes of slinpins. Not sure I'll ever use it up. For me personally, peps compared to real gh are like ph's compared to aas. Or, no supps compared to taking creatine. If I ever look to boost my gh again it will be with real gh not peps.

Interesting feedback. Thank you. From graphs I've seen, it would lead one to believe that the spike in GH from peptides is far higher and therefore more effective than GH itself.

Hoping to hear from Oryan on this subject, seeing as he's a fan of the peps.

[olddawg]

I think to get a solid "opinion" one would need to ask someone who has done both, the hgh and the peps so they can compare. I've not done gh yet so hard to say really. though I did get numb arms while sleeping, and some other sides.....??????

[burlyman30]

I think to get a solid "opinion" one would need to ask someone who has done both, the hgh and the peps so they can compare. I've not done gh yet so hard to say really. though I did get numb arms while sleeping, and some other sides.....??????

From what I've read, it seems that numbness happens with higher or more frequent dosing. Being that I'm old and all, I was mostly interested in bringing back a GH level that might be comparable to what we experience in our youth. However, I'm not sure it would bring about noticeable restorative effects since I'm on TNT (test n tren). Maybe better sleep? Maybe slightly better fat shedding?

[O_RYAN_007]

This is why I wish we had the tagging action in these threads. I would've chimed in much quicker.

Either way... I'll give you a background on my pep usage. About 2 years ago I started messing around with them, and I fell in love ever since. I was on a 12 wk cycle of AHv2 solo run and right around the wk 3 mark I started the peps. I had already started leaning on the AH, but once I added in the peps I started stripping fat from my body. I was doing morning fasted cardio 3-4 times a week, and also lifting at lunch. At the end of that cycle I dropped 5% bf. I was eating extremely clean, no carbs for dinner, and hitting the peps 3xs/day. Morning, post lift, and pre-bed. After being on the peps for about 2 months at saturation doses 3xs/day I was getting numbing of the hands and carpal tunnel symptoms. I stopped using them for about 3 months. I was worried that I was fk in the way that I would never be able to use them again. So after about 3 months I gave it a go, but once again at the 3xs/day usage. I was getting leaning effects, mild anabolic effects, great sleep, great recovery (I kill it!)... But I started getting the numbing of the hands again within 2-3 wks. I stopped usage again, as I was worried about permanent damage.

At that point, I figured I needed to back up on the dosage if I ever wanted to continue using them. I stopped for another 3 months, and when I started back I just hit up saturation dosages at night only. From that point on, I never really got the carpal tunnel symptoms, just tingling of the hands ever once in a while; nothing bad at all.

From this, I have come to the conclusion that I get the same positive effects mentioned earlier with morning and pre-bed doses. I like my morning dose since it really helps me eat more. If I don't have my peps in the am, I have to fight to eat my bfast sometimes. I eat about 4500 calls per day, and I pretty much maintain a good 6 pack year round. This has a lot to do with how I eat and train, but the peps def help... I'm not really maximizing the leaning effects of them, but its def there if you use them properly. I did however put the peps to good use with the morning fasted cardio on the AHV2 solo run and I managed to drop 5% bf!!

I'll always use them in pct as they have great muscle sparing effects, plus all the other great factors. I'll never use hgh unless its given to me, so I'll never be able to compare the 2... But I'll def be taking peps on and off for the years to come. They're one of my staple sups.

[burlyman30]

Excellent input, Ryan. I knew you'd have some experience to draw upon. Thanks for chiming in!

[Sperwer]

This is why I wish we had the tagging action in these threads. I would've chimed in much quicker.

Either way... I'll give you a background on my pep usage. About 2 years ago I started messing around with them, and I fell in love ever since. I was on a 12 wk cycle of AHv2 solo run and right around the wk 3 mark I started the peps. I had already started leaning on the AH, but once I added in the peps I started stripping fat from my body. I was doing morning fasted cardio 3-4 times a week, and also lifting at lunch. At the end of that cycle I dropped 5% bf. I was eating extremely clean, no carbs for dinner, and hitting the peps 3xs/day. Morning, post lift, and pre-bed. After being on the peps for about 2 months at saturation doses 3xs/day I was getting numbing of the hands and carpal tunnel symptoms. I stopped using them for about 3 months. I was worried that I was fk in the way that I would never be able to use them again. So after about 3 months I gave it a go, but once again at the 3xs/day usage. I was getting leaning effects, mild anabolic effects, great sleep, great recovery (I kill it!)... But I started getting the numbing of the hands again within 2-3 wks. I stopped usage again, as I was worried about permanent damage.

At that point, I figured I needed to back up on the dosage if I ever wanted to continue using them. I stopped for another 3 months, and when I started back I just hit up saturation dosages at night only. From that point on, I never really got the carpal tunnel symptoms, just tingling of the hands ever once in a while; nothing bad at all.

From this, I have come to the conclusion that I get the same positive effects mentioned earlier with morning and pre-bed doses. I like my morning dose since it really helps me eat more. If I don't have my peps in the am, I have to fight to eat my bfast sometimes. I eat about 4500 calls per day, and I pretty much maintain a good 6 pack year round. This has a lot to do with how I eat and train, but the peps def help... I'm not really maximizing the leaning effects of them, but its def there if you use them properly. I did however put the peps to good use with the morning fasted cardio on the AHV2 solo run and I managed to drop 5% bf!!

I'll always use them in pct as they have great muscle sparing effects, plus all the other great factors. I'll never use hgh unless its given to me, so I'll never be able to compare the 2... But I'll def be taking peps on and off for the years to come. They're one of my staple sups.

What exactly were you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[O_RYAN_007]

What exactly were you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GHRP-2 (or some form of it, I also like GHRP-6, never tried IPAM) and mod1-29 combo at 100mcg a piece.

- - - Updated - - -


Excellent input, Ryan. I knew you'd have some experience to draw upon. Thanks for chiming in!

Anytime brother Burly!

[h2s]

I have used all 3 ghrps and I like them. Dosing frequency blows. 3 times a day is hard to continually manage. I have also done morning and night and the difference between the two was slight.

Infamy was a big advocate of prebed dosing.

[O_RYAN_007]

I have used all 3 ghrps and I like them. Dosing frequency blows. 3 times a day is hard to continually manage. I have also done morning and night and the difference between the two was slight.

Infamy was a big advocate of prebed dosing.

So was J... I love prebed dosing.

[olddawg]

this is my point guys, people saying they like it with not much to back it up. I liked it too, was it worth the $ I terms of results, not to me. What we need to determine somehow is what % of greater fatloss, or gh spike comes from the peps and how can we measure the results in terms of body composition or mood etc... I like it isn't good enough for me to buy into, though I have about $500 worth left here lol. the graphs I've seen were all unlabelled, didn't look like they were data from studies, rather marketing material to get you to buy, then, brolore takes over hence the "I like it". what I would like to determine is like something in Ryan's case, of going to 5% bf, and whether it happened faster on the peps, or ended up going lower than it would have natty doing as he mentioned he was also on a cutting diet and cardio which would have done the job all by itself. Are the peps a placebo that just make you more committed so you end up achieving results you wouldn't normally?

[O_RYAN_007]

this is my point guys, people saying they like it with not much to back it up. I liked it too, was it worth the $ I terms of results, not to me. What we need to determine somehow is what % of greater fatloss, or gh spike comes from the peps and how can we measure the results in terms of body composition or mood etc... I like it isn't good enough for me to buy into, though I have about $500 worth left here lol. the graphs I've seen were all unlabelled, didn't look like they were data from studies, rather marketing material to get you to buy, then, brolore takes over hence the "I like it". what I would like to determine is like something in Ryan's case, of going to 5% bf, and whether it happened faster on the peps, or ended up going lower than it would have natty doing as he mentioned he was also on a cutting diet and cardio which would have done the job all by itself. Are the peps a placebo that just make you more committed so you end up achieving results you wouldn't normally?

Thats a good question regarding the 5% bf loss, but I don;t have an honest answer to that. I do know that I achieved this BF reduction in the course of 12 wks... I've never been able to do that again natty. At this moment, my goal isn't to cut, so I'm not all that worried about that aspect of the peps... What I am akin to is the recovery, good deep sleep, the hunger it gives me, and the muscle sparing capabilities from them.

[olddawg]

Thats a good question regarding the 5% bf loss, but I don;t have an honest answer to that. I do know that I achieved this BF reduction in the course of 12 wks... I've never been able to do that again natty. At this moment, my goal isn't to cut, so I'm not all that worried about that aspect of the peps... What I am akin to is the recovery, good deep sleep, the hunger it gives me, and the muscle sparing capabilities from them.

I get the hunger, not so much a deep sleep but I have sleep issues, and other aspects I can't be positive of. We all think they are worth it but nobody knows. You know, when I got back into lifting a few years ago I went to walmart and bought a nox drink. I was still really fat, and couldn't see any of the effects from it but once I drank it, it forced me to go out and work out and hard, even though I was in the beginning stages of changing my physique. The placebo from that crap is really responsible for my restarting on the road to lifting lol.

You know, I'm gonna mix up a couple vials and go on 2 and mod, I've been cutting for a while so I should be able to notice a change in fat loss?? But I don't think Burly is looking at it so much for fatloss then general well being.

[h2s]

this is my point guys, people saying they like it with not much to back it up. I liked it too, was it worth the $ I terms of results, not to me. What we need to determine somehow is what % of greater fatloss, or gh spike comes from the peps and how can we measure the results in terms of body composition or mood etc... I like it isn't good enough for me to buy into, though I have about $500 worth left here lol. the graphs I've seen were all unlabelled, didn't look like they were data from studies, rather marketing material to get you to buy, then, brolore takes over hence the "I like it". what I would like to determine is like something in Ryan's case, of going to 5% bf, and whether it happened faster on the peps, or ended up going lower than it would have natty doing as he mentioned he was also on a cutting diet and cardio which would have done the job all by itself. Are the peps a placebo that just make you more committed so you end up achieving results you wouldn't normally?

Not disagreeing, just sharing my opinion. The issue is personal response varies dramatically between individuals. They are fairly well studied though, but as with anything studies show only so much.

I personally felt like the leaning out came easy. My sleep was much better, my dreams more vivid. Energy levels throughout the day felt great, and recovery *seemed* enhanced.

As for the graphs, most are compiled by DatbTrue, who doesn't actually sell any peptides. In his original postings of various graphs, he gives references.

[O_RYAN_007]

I get the hunger, not so much a deep sleep but I have sleep issues, and other aspects I can't be positive of. We all think they are worth it but nobody knows. You know, when I got back into lifting a few years ago I went to walmart and bought a nox drink. I was still really fat, and couldn't see any of the effects from it but once I drank it, it forced me to go out and work out and hard, even though I was in the beginning stages of changing my physique. The placebo from that crap is really responsible for my restarting on the road to lifting lol.

You know, I'm gonna mix up a couple vials and go on 2 and mod, I've been cutting for a while so I should be able to notice a change in fat loss?? But I don't think Burly is looking at it so much for fatloss then general well being.

I'd def give it a go since you have so much left. Even just nightly doses, but am are great too.

[burlyman30]

this is my point guys, people saying they like it with not much to back it up. I liked it too, was it worth the $ I terms of results, not to me. What we need to determine somehow is what % of greater fatloss, or gh spike comes from the peps and how can we measure the results in terms of body composition or mood etc... I like it isn't good enough for me to buy into, though I have about $500 worth left here lol. the graphs I've seen were all unlabelled, didn't look like they were data from studies, rather marketing material to get you to buy, then, brolore takes over hence the "I like it". what I would like to determine is like something in Ryan's case, of going to 5% bf, and whether it happened faster on the peps, or ended up going lower than it would have natty doing as he mentioned he was also on a cutting diet and cardio which would have done the job all by itself. Are the peps a placebo that just make you more committed so you end up achieving results you wouldn't normally?

I think you just described the supplement industry as a whole. "How much of which does what to whom and to what degree?" Very hard to measure since there are so many variables including what else is being taken (like AAS) that may overshadow the results. I think personal experience and anecdotal evidence is about all you can rely on past the science and the studies. Some will get greater results than others. I really figured that guys our age would benefit more than the 20somethings, since our GH levels are going to be probably 1/2 of theirs.



You know, I'm gonna mix up a couple vials and go on 2 and mod, I've been cutting for a while so I should be able to notice a change in fat loss?? But I don't think Burly is looking at it so much for fatloss then general well being.

General well-being, yes. If fatloss is a side-effect, then great. Kind of my same stance with the TRT. I want to feel the best I can. The better I feel, the more productive I will be and the more enjoyment in life I can experience. If it helps with the old man pains, then even better.

[olddawg]

Not disagreeing, just sharing my opinion. The issue is personal response varies dramatically between individuals. They are fairly well studied though, but as with anything studies show only so much.

I personally felt like the leaning out came easy. My sleep was much better, my dreams more vivid. Energy levels throughout the day felt great, and recovery *seemed* enhanced.

As for the graphs, most are compiled by DatbTrue, who doesn't actually sell any peptides. In his original postings of various graphs, he gives references.

I want that all, but it doesn't really smack me in the face. could the difference be the difference in people to recognize changes in their bodies? some are more in tune than others -- so changes are happening albeit at a level where some can detect it and others can't? As for Dat's studies, I don't remember his references only the charts that JJ was posting--and too lazy to go look them up lol.






General well-being, yes. If fatloss is a side-effect, then great. Kind of my same stance with the TRT. I want to feel the best I can. The better I feel, the more productive I will be and the more enjoyment in life I can experience. If it helps with the old man pains, then even better.

the peps liberate fat cells, but if you don't use them up as energy once liberated into your blood stream within a relatively short time, then I would imagine they would return to fat storage.

[WesleyInman]

I used HGH and IGF-1 extensively in the past. MTII as well..

In regards to the multiple times per day..I would have to say I did see a slightly better result if I did it 2x per day at a lower dosage. The main thing for me was the side effects were more manageable.

With IGF, say if I ran 80mcgs in one dose..I literally was falling asleep all day, it made me so lethargic and tired..If I did 40mcgs x 2..much less tired, and seemingly a little more bodyfat loss. Which brings up Sub Q versus IM with the IGF. For site application enhancement, i would backload say 40mcgs of BW with the IGF and hit the muscle..alternating. Whichever muscle I used had considerable size gain in the 30 day period, rightfully so, even though alot of it may be water volume, still is apparent. I wouldnt say permanent though. In regards to Sub Q, In theory everyone always say it absorbs better and works better when done Sub Q. I never noticed a huge difference. It always worked for me regardless about the same.

HGH wise. I ran it 2x per day for the first month..Low dose, 2iu x 2. Same thing if I hit 4ius in the first month in One Dosage, I would get terrible hand cramps and foot cramps and jaw pumps chewing food. 2x per day seemed to alleviate it to a degree, though I always experienced this even with good stuff like RIPS. Then I adjusted a few weeks in, and would just do 1x per day.

So this is my experience. After using both extensively, I would say no matter when or how you use it, if you use it is going to work very well..I think if you tweak to your bodies personal needs, it "could" be more advantageous.

My 2cents :)

[Jelisej]

I get the hunger, not so much a deep sleep but I have sleep issues, and other aspects I can't be positive of. We all think they are worth it but nobody knows. You know, when I got back into lifting a few years ago I went to walmart and bought a nox drink. I was still really fat, and couldn't see any of the effects from it but once I drank it, it forced me to go out and work out and hard, even though I was in the beginning stages of changing my physique. The placebo from that crap is really responsible for my restarting on the road to lifting lol.

You know, I'm gonna mix up a couple vials and go on 2 and mod, I've been cutting for a while so I should be able to notice a change in fat loss?? But I don't think Burly is looking at it so much for fatloss then general well being.


Reason why you had such a poor results is because you're both hypothyroid and diabetic if I remeber correctly.
I do owe you an apology as I did advise you to try peps. On other hand I did not known your condition at the time, so I hope I'll be forgiven.
I doubt you would have a great reasult with HGH as it also rely on thyroid (HGH increases T4-T3 conversion) and in lot, probably majority of people T4 ends up depleted.
Also over-use of peps depletes IGF levels, so it should be used in moderation.
Pre-bed is superior to morning dosage from my experience. 2X in the evening is better, option more than 2 doses are unneccessary,
actually one dose is more than enough for restoring natural levels.

Dosage is big problem as quality and potency varies a lot from lab to lab- real GHRP-2 that they use in research cost around 80$ or more, and what we buy cost far less- and is less potent.

As for HGH- some guys tested "proper" quality HGH and lot of other that they sell to us, and proper HGH was around 3X more potent.
IMHO HGH is way overrated and too expensive, really.

Burly, you would not benefit much from peps/HGH at the moment. If you remeber-
Adrenals
Thyroid
Sex hormones
GH (optional)

[longBallLima]

Reason why you had such a poor results is because you're both hypothyroid and diabetic if I remeber correctly.
I do owe you an apology as I did advise you to try peps. On other hand I did not known your condition at the time, so I hope I'll be forgiven.
I doubt you would have a great reasult with HGH as it also rely on thyroid (HGH increases T4-T3 conversion) and in lot, probably majority of people T4 ends up depleted.
Also over-use of peps depletes IGF levels, so it should be used in moderation.
Pre-bed is superior to morning dosage from my experience. 2X in the evening is better, option more than 2 doses are unneccessary,
actually one dose is more than enough for restoring natural levels.

Dosage is big problem as quality and potency varies a lot from lab to lab- real GHRP-2 that they use in research cost around 80$ or more, and what we buy cost far less- and is less potent.

As for HGH- some guys tested "proper" quality HGH and lot of other that they sell to us, and proper HGH was around 3X more potent.
IMHO HGH is way overrated and too expensive, really.

Burly, you would not benefit much from peps/HGH at the moment. If you remeber-
Adrenals
Thyroid
Sex hormones
GH (optional)


Very nice to see you around Jel

[olddawg]

JJ my man, if I was paying you for advice then you'd be in deep shit--and I'd be lookin for a refund lol, but that's not the case, not sure you were even around yet when I bought them so who knows, but your explanation makes sense, could also be the issue I'm still having gyno issues on tren while estrogen is very low and also on caber--the whole tren-thyroid thing with my medical issues. so that's good info to qualify my experience on the peps for everyone. it just means that I can't look for help in cutting with peps/hgh and will have to do it the old fashioned way-cardio and diet. thanks for chiming in JJ


Reason why you had such a poor results is because you're both hypothyroid and diabetic if I remeber correctly.
I do owe you an apology as I did advise you to try peps. On other hand I did not known your condition at the time, so I hope I'll be forgiven.
I doubt you would have a great reasult with HGH as it also rely on thyroid (HGH increases T4-T3 conversion) and in lot, probably majority of people T4 ends up depleted.
Also over-use of peps depletes IGF levels, so it should be used in moderation.
Pre-bed is superior to morning dosage from my experience. 2X in the evening is better, option more than 2 doses are unneccessary,
actually one dose is more than enough for restoring natural levels.

Dosage is big problem as quality and potency varies a lot from lab to lab- real GHRP-2 that they use in research cost around 80$ or more, and what we buy cost far less- and is less potent.

As for HGH- some guys tested "proper" quality HGH and lot of other that they sell to us, and proper HGH was around 3X more potent.
IMHO HGH is way overrated and too expensive, really.

Burly, you would not benefit much from peps/HGH at the moment. If you remeber-
Adrenals
Thyroid
Sex hormones
GH (optional)

- - - Updated - - -

[Jelisej]

Bro' OD, your E2 may be low- but its possible that your SHBG is low as well in which case your free estrogen could be high, and progesterone also contributes to gyno a lot- at right amount progesterone keeps both DHT and E2 in check but if its too low it makes things worse. Tren does not help, that's for sure.

Diet and cardio is best way but in your case, you'll have really hard time to do make progress, it would be much easier to try to improve your hormonal profile- especially thyroid. In that case- peps would start working as well.

[olddawg]

the peps I inj today felt very strong, much stronger than I remember at 100mcg ea. I think tren might be on the way out for me, I've been able to manage the sides on one hand, and on the other it plays tricks on me. the diabetes by the way hasn't been an issue since I had lost the fat. I realize that once it has expressed itself it's there forever, but my bs comes right back down if I ingest some simple carbs. ...but that thyroid is pissing me off. wondering then, for people who have their thyroid removed, all of this thyroid dependent gear won't work then?

[Sperwer]

Reason why you had such a poor results is because you're both hypothyroid and diabetic if I remeber correctly.


Welcome back, mate! I re-upped myself about a month ago, at first in order to circulate a survey re my efforts to resurrect the PP product line, and have stuck around. Glad you're back; you are a fountain of good info.

(Turn on your PM function?)

[USN HM 350Z]

Welcome back Jel.

[Jelisej]

the peps I inj today felt very strong, much stronger than I remember at 100mcg ea. I think tren might be on the way out for me, I've been able to manage the sides on one hand, and on the other it plays tricks on me. the diabetes by the way hasn't been an issue since I had lost the fat. I realize that once it has expressed itself it's there forever, but my bs comes right back down if I ingest some simple carbs. ...but that thyroid is pissing me off. wondering then, for people who have their thyroid removed, all of this thyroid dependent gear won't work then?

They will be on adequate dose of thyroid medications, so if they are tuned the gear will be working allright, in your particular case- tunning your thyroid would make things easier- problem is tunning thyroid is difficults, it takes months as supplementing throid hormones it has delayed action, meaning when you change dosage it will take a month to feel difference.
And needs to be said that every cell in body needs thyroid hormones to work properly and to swith gear into higher speed, so insufficient levels of thyroid hormones is not good, too much is not good either as it kind of binds hormones so also you get less effect or better said you need lot more hormones to do action.

back to peptides and HGH- they both need plenty of T4, and it seems that HGH (and peps indirectly) have depressing effect on thyroid- so you end up in hypothyroid state, sometimes very fast- so what happens is you are trying to milk cow that has been allready milked, so to speak.
I think that main reason for pain in hands when using HGH/peps is because insufficient thyroid hormone levels.

Guys, thanks for kind words!

[burlyman30]

Welcome back Jel.

This. Glad to have one of our most esteemed members back. :)

[O_RYAN_007]

I'm def glad your back J! You bring a wealth of knowledge to this Forum.

[Cdsnuts]

Glad you're back Bro. You've helped me on numerous occasions. Good to see you around.

[olddawg]

my thyroid is actually tuned when I'm not on tren, the tren will slow it that's confirmed by bloods and the doc is always freaking out if I get bloods too closely after a tren cycle. she always wants to increase the meds but I tell her to wait. I did ramp up the Eltroxin to 150mcg over the course of a year or so, that was a while back. so really, If I remove the tren from my cycles maybe the peps will be more effective. I suppose the issue underlying all of my thyroid issues is the tren. Kick that and the ole thyroid will be working as it should. Sad day....lol so burly, if your thyroid ever goes, there you have it lol



They will be on adequate dose of thyroid medications, so if they are tuned the gear will be working allright, in your particular case- tunning your thyroid would make things easier- problem is tunning thyroid is difficults, it takes months as supplementing throid hormones it has delayed action, meaning when you change dosage it will take a month to feel difference.
And needs to be said that every cell in body needs thyroid hormones to work properly and to swith gear into higher speed, so insufficient levels of thyroid hormones is not good, too much is not good either as it kind of binds hormones so also you get less effect or better said you need lot more hormones to do action.

back to peptides and HGH- they both need plenty of T4, and it seems that HGH (and peps indirectly) have depressing effect on thyroid- so you end up in hypothyroid state, sometimes very fast- so what happens is you are trying to milk cow that has been allready milked, so to speak.
I think that main reason for pain in hands when using HGH/peps is because insufficient thyroid hormone levels.

Guys, thanks for kind words!

[burlyman30]

Burly, you would not benefit much from peps/HGH at the moment. If you remeber-
Adrenals
Thyroid
Sex hormones
GH (optional)

I'd like to touch on this for a moment. I do remember your hormonal importance hierarchy. If memory serves me correctly, my adrenals and thyroid may have been a bit on the low side, but were still within acceptable range. Unfortunately, I do not know what an optimal range for me would be and therefore do not know how to accurately gauge my results.

That being said, I have new bloodwork done at the end of this month by my endo, so maybe that will shed some light on my most current state.

So to go further with your above statement, I am assuming you meant that the hierarchal hormones you listed should be at optimal levels, not just in range and until they are, GH/peps are putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I do not think my endo will be taking my treatment further than TRT unless I press the issue, but I do not have sufficient knowledge of the ACTH/Thyroid systems in order to talk intelligently in this area. I will need either a crash course from you and Google, or I will have to go it alone (treating it) with (hopefully) your assistance.

This post veered a bit off topic. Sorry for hijacking my own thread. Lol.

[milehighguy]

Bro' OD, your E2 may be low- but its possible that your SHBG is low as well in which case your free estrogen could be high, and progesterone also contributes to gyno a lot- at right amount progesterone keeps both DHT and E2 in check but if its too low it makes things worse. Tren does not help, that's for sure.

ah yea...good stuff
keep it coming & welcome back!

[Jelisej]

Od- I'm not an expert on tren, but part of its benefits are done via thyroid and T3- I'm not sure on actual mechanism of action but I guess that combining tren with HGH and adding too many thyroid hormones could be dangerous game.

[Jelisej]

This post veered a bit off topic. Sorry for hijacking my own thread. Lol.

I've alredy hijacked your thread, and you have admit that no one is more versed in thread hijacking than me.

As for hormone hijerarchy- thing is adrenals, especialy cortisol are very important as they are involved in lot of processes and for example cortisol is needed to transport thyroid hormones inot cells- if there cortisol is too low you get what lot of people call "blood pooling" meaning that thyroid levels are there but they cannot enter cells and do their job so they are just there in blood- and also sometimes if you add thyroid hormones and if your cortisol is too low you get "crash" for example one of symptoms of insufficent cortisol (compared to thyroid) is iregular heart beat- more insufficent one is symptoms get worse. Also sometimes when body cannot cope with T3 it converts it into "reverse T3" which basically occupies place of T3 but does nothing.

For thyroid hormones- well they are needed in every cell, and for example lot of symptoms of "ageing" actually come from insufficient thyroid hormones- it even happens that people get misdiagnosed with parkinson (poor memory, dementia, concetration etc) when they actually have lower thyroid from what should be. Interestingly- sometimes even our hearing gets worse because of thyroid hormones.
And T3 itself is mosr powerful PDE5 inhibitor known to humankind- only for its action E2 and adrenals of course need to be tuned, and if DHT levels are decent- you'll have some serious erections.

As for optimum hormone levels that depends from person to person, some people have naturaly tuned bodies- and they can operate with less hormones and less tuned hormone levels, for others whenever things go bit off they feel it.
Generaly its always better to be upper- but I would say that balance is more important.

[burlyman30]

JJ...

I went back and looked at my ACTH and Thyroid tests. These are tests that I am assuming have improved in number since the addition of TRT based on how I seem to be feeling and based on what you said about the TRT kickstarting or forcing them to kick into gear or if they didn't, I wouldn't feel well. ACTH was 11 on a range of 6-50 and Thyroid was .82 on a range of .4 to 4.5. I believe I will get the ACTH retested as part of the normal panel, though thyroid did not come as part of the normal panel last time and I had to review that from an older test, from several months prior.

Based on this information, assuming we have improvements on those two areas, and also the sex hormone with the TRT, do you feel it is unwise to consider stimulating the pituitary? Or do you think it would be just less effective than it should be? I am not in any kind of hurry about this and I am certainly wanting to see what the upcoming bloods can tell us.

[Jelisej]

To be honest, I dont have a faint idea what kind of response you would get from stimulating pituary- maybe nothing at all. Your endo said that you were secondary and your pituary does not send signal- it means that your organs/glands are probably capable of producing stuff but they are not told to work (by pituary). Now, its even possible that stimulating your pituary could kickstart it at least to some extent, and wheter that would be enough or permanent- again I cannot say.
In any case if it does not pick up, you'll have to add more synthetic hormones. But before that you could try other stuff, even some natural supplements.
As for your TSH and ACTH they are just part of picture, it does seems that your pituary is not working at its full, but on other hand those levels were probably balanced with other low levels, what happened afterwoods I cannot tell, probably they picked up somewhat.

Back to original topic- I'm not sure wheter GHRP/GHRH's would be capable of producing any significant result as they do not have enough material to do its work.

[burlyman30]

I believe that my hypogonadism was caused by chronic high levels of stress over a period of several years. I think the increased cortisol levels blunted the testosterone levels. Not sure if cortisol can blunt pituitary as well. And if so, would it come back on line once cortisol levels were back in check? This I do not know.

All that stress/cortisol combined with what used to be a massive daily intake of caffeine, also ran my adrenals into the ground. This is my theory, anyway. Cortisol levels are in check now, I believe. I encounter stress, but usually am able to handle it better. The TRT has mellowed out my reactions to stress in most instances.

Just wanted to add more pieces to the puzzle as it may relate to my pituitary.

[olddawg]

I have a bit of info that I think here would be a good spot to add it. I know a guy on another board who claims that he's tested the peps and that the GH release happens regardless of whether or not you have eaten. If this is true, then the insulin level in your body has only to do with the fat burning effect of the peps. so eating won't stop the gh release but will stop the fat burning effects of the peps. maybe someone else has some knowledge on this???

[burlyman30]

I have a bit of info that I think here would be a good spot to add it. I know a guy on another board who claims that he's tested the peps and that the GH release happens regardless of whether or not you have eaten. If this is true, then the insulin level in your body has only to do with the fat burning effect of the peps. so eating won't stop the gh release but will stop the fat burning effects of the peps. maybe someone else has some knowledge on this???

From what I have read, food will "blunt" the GH release, but I never read that it would prevent it.

[longBallLima]

From what I have read, food will "blunt" the GH release, but I never read that it would prevent it.

that's one i've always struggled with when running peps. I can't not eat for 2 hr windows.

[burlyman30]

that's one i've always struggled with when running peps. I can't not eat for 2 hr windows.

:eek: Every two hours???

[O_RYAN_007]

that's one i've always struggled with when running peps. I can't not eat for 2 hr windows.

You can eat protein and greens, even fats, but fats will blunt the gh release (not sure to what degree). Who needs food when you can just take 10g of L-Leucine post admin and you'll grow like the hulk!

[longBallLima]

:eek: Every two hours???

lol shooting for 7k now. havent hit it yet (got sick last week), but shooting for it lol

[burlyman30]

lol shooting for 7k now. havent hit it yet (got sick last week), but shooting for it lol

Easily done. Give me a bowl of melted butter and I can drink that 7k calories in minutes. ;)

[longBallLima]

You can eat protein and greens, even fats, but fats will blunt the gh release (not sure to what degree). Who needs food when you can just take 10g of L-Leucine post admin and you'll grow like the hulk!

how long are we supposed to stay away from carbs and fats?

i have carbs either before or during my WO and I have a gainer right before bed. coincidentally, 1 shot PWO and one pre bed lol

[longBallLima]

Easily done. Give me a bowl of melted butter and I can drink that 7k calories in minutes. ;)

haha im about to start doing that. my breakfast shake is getting ridiculous, im putting everything but the kitchen sink in it. i open the fridge and whatever i find goes in. sample? sure

2 cups egg whites (chocolate muscle eggs, its the shit.)
1 cup whole milk
1 cup low fat cottage cheese
1 cut no fat plain yogurt
1-2 tbsp almond butter
1/2 cup frozen berries
1.5 cup oats
1 banana
1 scoop whey
1 scoop of my gainer (150 cal. full dose is 600)

about it.

[olddawg]

my understanding is the amt of insulin in your bloodstream, the time it takes for your blood sugar to return to normal after eating carbs is the time to inj the peps. so depending on your body and how much sugar you ate, 1.5-2 hours

[longBallLima]

my understanding is the amt of insulin in your bloodstream, the time it takes for your blood sugar to return to normal after eating carbs is the time to inj the peps. so depending on your body and how much sugar you ate, 1.5-2 hours

before and after, right? crazy shit.

[Jelisej]

I have a bit of info that I think here would be a good spot to add it. I know a guy on another board who claims that he's tested the peps and that the GH release happens regardless of whether or not you have eaten. If this is true, then the insulin level in your body has only to do with the fat burning effect of the peps. so eating won't stop the gh release but will stop the fat burning effects of the peps. maybe someone else has some knowledge on this???

Growth hormone and insulin basicaly opose each other, so more insulin less GH and vice versa.
Peptides should be taken sometimes between 1-1.5 hrs after meal depending from digestion and glucose metabolism etc., for most of foods 1hr is enough, I think baked beans are the worse as they can raise insulin even after 1.5 hrs.
After taking peptides, you should wait 30 mins till next meal, or even less if its pure protein meal like steak... Remember that whey protein can actually cause quite an spike in insulin, so dont take whey protein with peps as some people do.

[O_RYAN_007]

how long are we supposed to stay away from carbs and fats?

i have carbs either before or during my WO and I have a gainer right before bed. coincidentally, 1 shot PWO and one pre bed lol

The GH Spike from Mod/GHRP is suppose to last about 30 mins... For me, when I take my Pre-bed dose, I would not have eaten for 1.5-2 hrs. But Once I admin, I usually take a pre-bed casein/10g l-leucine shake after about 30-40 mins.

In the am, I admin, drink black coffee, then I eat around 1 hr later.

[O_RYAN_007]

I'll be reviewing the differences I experience between GWP and SRC peps soon. I just got some SRC peps in today, and I'll be giving feedback on the differences between the 2. I'll say that after my first dose of SRC peps (mod 1-29 & GHRP-2) at the same dose I was taking with GWP, my hunger level is much higher with SRC. It's really high! I'll report in the morning if sleep was any different.

[burlyman30]

Look forward to the review.

[O_RYAN_007]

I admin again this morning at 125mcg a piece and I must say the hunger increases are much more prominent with SRC's peps. Last night I had a super deep sleep and didn't wake up but once to drain the tool. I was getting a pretty good night sleep before, but last night was better than normal. I'm really interested to see the how these guys work after a couple weeks.

[burlyman30]

I admin again this morning at 125mcg a piece and I must say the hunger increases are much more prominent with SRC's peps. Last night I had a super deep sleep and didn't wake up but once to drain the tool. I was getting a pretty good night sleep before, but last night was better than normal. I'm really interested to see the how these guys work after a couple weeks.

Interesting about the hunger being more prominent. Since SRC seems to have an excellent reputation, I would surmise that GWP has underdosed products or that SRC's products are more potent than advertised.

This does bring up a point, though. Past a saturation point, I would think there is little to gain from higher doses. However, it may be that saturation points are different for different people beyond just a mcg-to-bodyweight ratio.

Also interesting about the GHRP-2, as it isn't supposed to engage the hunger mechanism, but I have heard some do get hungry from it. "Individual Results May Vary" is the motto here, I suppose.

[Infamy]

I've used Ipam and mod 1-29 quite a bit.

I personally found that once before bed was best for me. I tried the 2 and 3 times a day thing and didn't notice any more effect that just once a day pre-bed. I would guess that the 2 -3 times a day dosage might not be worthwhile due to the position of the HGH receptor. It is on the cell membrane surface rather than internal. This means that once the receptor is activated, it travels to the nucleus of the cell to then exert it's effects. Once that is done, it relocates back again to the cell membrane surface. That whole process can take well over 24 hours and so if you have already gone and activated most of your HGH receptors, you get little more from hitting up another dose of HGH.

I also dont like to use it every day since I don't think the results of using i every day are worth the risks . I worry about insulin resistance from too much HGH. If anyone here is diabetic or has experience of diabetes then they know the devastation that high blood sugar can cause to nerves and blood vessels - sometimes leading to limb amputations. Also, a new study of science is establishing a link between high blood sugar and at the age of 35, I don't want to look any older than I already do! So I use it fairly conservatively.

Interestingly, it has also been shown that use of peptides (like ipam and mod 1-29) can increase the number of somatotrophs in the pituitary. Since the somatotrophs are responsible for producing HGH this means that you can actually create a semi-permanent increase in HGH levels even after stopping using them. Of course with the ageing process comes a natural reduction in somatrophs so the levels will slowly decline afterwards - hence I use the words semi-permanent.

What I would say though is that I have used different providers of my peps over the years and there is a huge difference between them. Not only that but to make matters worse, the half life of peps once constituted is very short IME. Maybe 3-4 days max. After than I find I can triple and quadruple my dose but not get any effects at all. Even unreconstituted and kept in the fridge for me they dont last much more than 6 months before deteriorating. So basically, make sure you use a good provider and use them real quick after buying.

I would say as a final note that having used real HGH, I would say the real stuff is better. I did a small experiment and did two tren cycles. The first I used 4iu of HGH once or twice a week. The second I did exactly the same cycle but used peps twice a week. I found that the HGH gave me a bit more fat loss over the same period. Im not saying this is scientific proof but anecdotally, I found HGH to be better. Of course good luck in finding a decent HGH source now! I used some Kigs recently and I ended up upping the dose at one point to 10iu a day with no effects. Needless to say it was bunk.

[Jelisej]

Good post Infamy; not much more to add really- I agree with differences in quality/potency of different sources- first none of what we buy is "real stuff"- so its always somewhat underdosed, and overdosing peptides indeed brings more harm than good- on top of what you've said about glucose metabolism, I would add thyroid woes and it can actually lower IGF levels which in long term could weaken bones.
As for Peptides- from some of my research you can milk up to 2 IU (per day I think) of HGH equivalent.
Also there are some studies that show that at 5 IU of HGH glucose metabolism is similar of those who have diabetes. So maybe is good thing that HGH that bb-s are buying are very underdosed.
Other thing- from my experience reconstituted petides last for couple of weeks, but there were cases when they probably did not- again I think it comes to source.
And lastly- lot of people (and I like the idea) use higher doses of GHRP-6 without CJC- this way its much cheaper, and you can still get good GH release, and GHRP-6 should not cause oversaturation at any dose. Only problem is hunger- but it should be reduced if your not administering it on completely empty stomack. Other thing is GHRP-6 does not increase prolactin/cortisol dramatically, so its much cheaper compared to ipamorelin which is hugely overpriced IMO.

[burlyman30]

Love the insights, guys. Appreciate all the feedback. Keep it coming. :)