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longBallLima
05-14-2013, 11:02 AM
So, PCT is supposedly over today. Got bloods last friday and here are the numbers:

Test, Serum 670
LH 9.0
FSH 4.3
Estradiol 39.3

estradiol is/was (friday) on the top of the reference range (7.6 - 42.6), anything to warrant extend my PCT or low enough to stop?

relevant info or not, i had a fever going the day i got my bloods. stomach bug i believe.

whatchu guys think?


thanks!

Macdon1588
05-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Could that estrogen number be your SERM?

longBallLima
05-14-2013, 03:29 PM
hah good question that i'm too dumb to answer

O.N.
05-14-2013, 07:13 PM
As im on the other side of the world i dont know your lab ranges as our ones are different can you post again with the ranges for me thanks.

burlyman30
05-14-2013, 07:27 PM
So, PCT is supposedly over today. Got bloods last friday and here are the numbers:

Test, Serum 670
LH 9.0
FSH 4.3
Estradiol 39.3

estradiol is/was (friday) on the top of the reference range (7.6 - 42.6), anything to warrant extend my PCT or low enough to stop?

relevant info or not, i had a fever going the day i got my bloods. stomach bug i believe.

whatchu guys think?


thanks!

Obviously you've been on a SERM without an AI. Lol. Estro is high. Take a low dose of an AI for a couple of weeks or more and it will drop the estro and maintain or enhance your test level, which looks ok but not excitingly high for just coming off a SERM.

longBallLima
05-15-2013, 12:26 AM
Obviously you've been on a SERM without an AI. Lol. Estro is high. Take a low dose of an AI for a couple of weeks or more and it will drop the estro and maintain or enhance your test level, which looks ok but not excitingly high for just coming off a SERM.

Awesome, thanks burly! I'm good with the serm for now though, yeah?

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As im on the other side of the world i dont know your lab ranges as our ones are different can you post again with the ranges for me thanks.

Will do when I'm not on my phone!

burlyman30
05-15-2013, 01:56 PM
Awesome, thanks burly! I'm good with the serm for now though, yeah?


Yep. Next time run an AI with your PCT. Mild dose, just enough to keep estro in a normal/low-normal range.

Jelisej
05-15-2013, 03:42 PM
Your LH and FSH seems bit on higher end which is I'm almost certain result of SERM, most of SERMS have a quite long half-life and it takes a while for them to clear out of system. Personaly I would advice you to use a bit of AI for a few weeks, but dont obliterate your E2, other thing is E2 test are not very accurate- better go by symptoms of which REM sleep is best to gauge E2 levels.

longBallLima
05-15-2013, 03:51 PM
Your LH and FSH seems bit on higher end which is I'm almost certain result of SERM, most of SERMS have a quite long half-life and it takes a while for them to clear out of system. Personaly I would advice you to use a bit of AI for a few weeks, but dont obliterate your E2, other thing is E2 test are not very accurate- better go by symptoms of which REM sleep is best to gauge E2 levels.

funny, sleep is deep and full of dreams. im on intimidate, which is nmda, not sure how much that is responsible for the dreaming. following burly's recommendation, i started 10mgs exemestane today, planning to run ed, which i guess is pretty low. would you consider that enough?

longBallLima
05-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Yep. Next time run an AI with your PCT. Mild dose, just enough to keep estro in a normal/low-normal range.

see, i think i followed bad advice on this.

I read somewhere (not here, i'm sure) that an AI during PCT would drive estro way too low, which is obviously BS.

noob mistake. next time, i'll keep the AI during PCT for sure.

Thanks again burly!

burlyman30
05-15-2013, 04:00 PM
funny, sleep is deep and full of dreams. im on intimidate, which is nmda, not sure how much that is responsible for the dreaming. following burly's recommendation, i started 10mgs exemestane today, planning to run ed, which i guess is pretty low. would you consider that enough?

Should be a sufficient dose in my opinion. I was going to suggest 25 eod or 12.5 ed. Just tilt the scale vs swing the pendulum. After two weeks, maybe drop it in half and do one more week. That should be sufficient. Open to other opinions, though.

Jelisej
05-15-2013, 04:07 PM
funny, sleep is deep and full of dreams. im on intimidate, which is nmda, not sure how much that is responsible for the dreaming. following burly's recommendation, i started 10mgs exemestane today, planning to run ed, which i guess is pretty low. would you consider that enough?

To be honest- difference between lot of exemestane/aromasin is so huge that its impossible to tell right dosage, you'll have to judge it yourself. On original aromasin 3X 25mg a week is usualy enough for majority- but original aromasin is much more potent than some other pharma-grade, and hoe it comapares to research ones I could only guess.
I have no idea what's intimidate- I guess DAA- if it is than DAA does rise E2 and I would personaly never run DAA without AI.

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Yep. Next time run an AI with your PCT. Mild dose, just enough to keep estro in a normal/low-normal range.

Yes, I agree on this 100%- my advice to folks is always SERM+ low dose of aromasin/exemestane, and aromasin should be run at low dose for week or two after stopping SERMS.

burlyman30
05-15-2013, 04:11 PM
see, i think i followed bad advice on this.

I read somewhere (not here, i'm sure) that an AI during PCT would drive estro way too low, which is obviously BS.

noob mistake. next time, i'll keep the AI during PCT for sure.

Thanks again burly!

Lots of different advice out there to follow. Some is better than others. And what works OK for someone may not work for others. But now you know for sure that your estrogen rises too high, so you'll make adjustments next time. At least you were smart enough to find out with blood work what is actually going on inside of you, so props to you for that. When it comes down to it, this is all just one big community-wide science experiment. We all learn stuff together.

O_RYAN_007
05-15-2013, 06:39 PM
To be honest- difference between lot of exemestane/aromasin is so huge that its impossible to tell right dosage, you'll have to judge it yourself. On original aromasin 3X 25mg a week is usualy enough for majority- but original aromasin is much more potent than some other pharma-grade, and hoe it comapares to research ones I could only guess.
I have no idea what's intimidate- I guess DAA- if it is than DAA does rise E2 and I would personaly never run DAA without AI.

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Yes, I agree on this 100%- my advice to folks is always SERM+ low dose of aromasin/exemestane, and aromasin should be run at low dose for week or two after stopping SERMS.

I've been following your advice and my PCT has been going GREAT! Best yet to be honest!

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-16-2013, 04:40 AM
Are you having estro-issues Lima, or is it just the number that's worrying you?

h2s
05-16-2013, 07:36 AM
I tend to be good on low doses of Exem, just enough to keep estrogen controlled, but not over suppressed.

longBallLima
05-16-2013, 10:46 AM
Are you having estro-issues Lima, or is it just the number that's worrying you?

just the number, really. irregular amount of acne, but that's subsiding

EDIT - Also, not extremely worried, since the numbers were all at least moving in the right direction, but enough to think it was worth getting you guys' point of view. sure enough, i was missing something lol

longBallLima
05-29-2013, 04:09 PM
So, PCT is supposedly over today. Got bloods last friday and here are the numbers:

Test, Serum 670
LH 9.0
FSH 4.3
Estradiol 39.3

estradiol is/was (friday) on the top of the reference range (7.6 - 42.6), anything to warrant extend my PCT or low enough to stop?

relevant info or not, i had a fever going the day i got my bloods. stomach bug i believe.

whatchu guys think?


thanks!

Update (with ranges this time, sorry O.N.):
Test, Serum 864 (348-1198)
LH 8.8 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.1 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 31.1 (7.6-42.6)


so, good news, i'd say. thank you guys for the help! is that estradiol low enough to quit the AI?

Jelisej
05-29-2013, 04:50 PM
Update (with ranges this time, sorry O.N.):
Test, Serum 864 (348-1198)
LH 8.8 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.1 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 31.1 (7.6-42.6)


so, good news, i'd say. thank you guys for the help! is that estradiol low enough to quit the AI?

Yeap, your pct is finished, you may take another week of reduced dose of AI and that's it. Thats my opinion- and I'm big fan of bit longer PCT with tapering down (of both SERM and AI).

And take longer break from any ph's/aas, on paper your results may seems great but its not so if we consider your age and other figures.

burlyman30
05-29-2013, 06:11 PM
I'd like to see the estro in the low to mid 20s, ideally. However, unless you have pre-cycle bloods, I have no idea what "normal" is for you. Low 30s may be your normal. As J said, you could stay on an AI for another week, but since it has only moved down 8 points after what I think was 2 weeks(?) of low dosed AI, another week may do nothing. If it's only been a week, then definitely do another week.

O_RYAN_007
05-29-2013, 06:44 PM
how long was your pct long ball?

longBallLima
05-29-2013, 07:55 PM
Yeap, your pct is finished, you may take another week of reduced dose of AI and that's it. Thats my opinion- and I'm big fan of bit longer PCT with tapering down (of both SERM and AI).

And take longer break from any ph's/aas, on paper your results may seems great but its not so if we consider your age and other figures.

thanks jel! do you mind elaborating a bit on my numbers X age? i decided to consider myself old since i entered the 30s and that already feels like forever ago! lol


I'd like to see the estro in the low to mid 20s, ideally. However, unless you have pre-cycle bloods, I have no idea what "normal" is for you. Low 30s may be your normal. As J said, you could stay on an AI for another week, but since it has only moved down 8 points after what I think was 2 weeks(?) of low dosed AI, another week may do nothing. If it's only been a week, then definitely do another week.

i actually have pre-bloods but those are on paper and at work. kinda forgot about that really, i'll check tomorrow! as far as the AI, i wasn't the smartest as posted below:


how long was your pct long ball?

it was 4 weeks of clomid (+ intimidate, tropinol), + (after the recomendations here) 1 week of exemestane ED and another week that should have been eod but it was more like e3d cuz im a dumbass and i forgot to take it a couple of days. thinking about going with the advice above and hitting the AI EOD till the end of this week.



thanks guys! great input as always!

O_RYAN_007
05-29-2013, 09:10 PM
thanks jel! do you mind elaborating a bit on my numbers X age? i decided to consider myself old since i entered the 30s and that already feels like forever ago! lol



i actually have pre-bloods but those are on paper and at work. kinda forgot about that really, i'll check tomorrow! as far as the AI, i wasn't the smartest as posted below:



it was 4 weeks of clomid (+ intimidate, tropinol), + (after the recomendations here) 1 week of exemestane ED and another week that should have been eod but it was more like e3d cuz im a dumbass and i forgot to take it a couple of days. thinking about going with the advice above and hitting the AI EOD till the end of this week.



thanks guys! great input as always!

Wow, 4 weeks has brought your numbers to a great level. I'm going to run a 8-12 wk pct hoping to achieve a complete restart to my test levels and be ready to have kids soon.

longBallLima
05-29-2013, 11:26 PM
Wow, 4 weeks has brought your numbers to a great level. I'm going to run a 8-12 wk pct hoping to achieve a complete restart to my test levels and be ready to have kids soon.

what are you running? i think my cycle wasnt incredibly aggressive, although longer than initially expected. i also went clomid 50 ED, no taper down.

i'd love to get a hold of some pharma torem.

weekend
05-29-2013, 11:33 PM
for the record, i got my bloodwork done at the end of PCT while on clomid 50 and ralox 80 and my estro was somewhere around 15, so i dont think serms cause false positives for estro...


i was also on adex at 1 mg

O_RYAN_007
05-30-2013, 05:36 AM
what are you running? i think my cycle wasnt incredibly aggressive, although longer than initially expected. i also went clomid 50 ED, no taper down.

i'd love to get a hold of some pharma torem.

test 500/wk, some OT, var, and proviron. Nothing aggressive either, I just wasn't please with my precycle test levels.

Jelisej
05-30-2013, 06:19 AM
It would be good to see pre-cycle bloods. Also did you take anything else on last to week (along with AI)? As something else maybe is pushing your E2, if not you starting to aromatise a lot which is not good sign. And I've got a feeling that you dont like HCG?
As for age- well I was thinking that you are younger, but still- I dont think numbers are too good even if they look, as your TT wil take dive soon, and I dont think will be more than 650 ng/dl.

longBallLima
05-30-2013, 09:04 AM
i did HCG during the cycle and i was on tropinol and intimidate (which you mentioned, you'd use an AI with) until early last week. i'll check pre cycle values today

longBallLima
05-30-2013, 09:44 AM
ok, unbelievable as it is, the pre-cycle bloods were done in a dr's office (instead of private md, which is what i use now) and he did not test for estrogen. never really noticed until now, but all i have is test (670), t4, dhea and tsh. i probably asked for something like "all sex hormones" and the good dr didn't think to include estrogen on the count of me being a man and him thinking it didn't really matter :mad:

Jelisej
05-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Well, overall- I would say that you recovered. DAA raises E2 a lot, especially after tot. test. has reached its peak so its probably all good. Any DAA should not be used for more than 2-3 weeks at the time. And DAA should be used only when neccessary (PCT or as part of restart protocol).
Also E2 tests are not always accurate as well. I think monitoring REM woods is good way to gauge E2.
In any case you should take some time off any ph's/aas.

longBallLima
05-30-2013, 04:01 PM
Well, overall- I would say that you recovered. DAA raises E2 a lot, especially after tot. test. has reached its peak so its probably all good. Any DAA should not be used for more than 2-3 weeks at the time. And DAA should be used only when neccessary (PCT or as part of restart protocol).
Also E2 tests are not always accurate as well. I think monitoring REM woods is good way to gauge E2.
In any case you should take some time off any ph's/aas.


definitely will, i'm probably never doing PHs again, and my next aas cycle probably won't be until next year :)

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test 500/wk, some OT, var, and proviron. Nothing aggressive either, I just wasn't please with my precycle test levels.

if you dont mind my asking, what were your levels and how old are you?