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pman42
05-25-2013, 09:55 PM
today was the worldwide march against Monsanto. What do people think of this company and GMOs in general?

my own view, after reading and listening to the best articulated points of view from both sides, is somewhere in between. First of all, I don't buy the marketing spin that GMOs are going to feed the world's starving poor. this is about control of the supply chain, plain and simple. Monsanto wants to take control and push out the old product much like DuPont did when synthetic fabrics pushed out hemp. I recognize the need for higher yielding crops but I'm not so sure that GMOs are the solution. better would be biodynamic agriculture which rotates crops and has mixed crop/livestock on the same area so that all products go back into the system to re-enrich the soil and food. but i recognize that this is also probably not going to happen or might not be realistic on a global scale. I buy approximately 90% organic (I can go see the cows that are walking around with my steak in them) but I'm not a luddite. in fact, I think that as our population continues to grow, GMOs will become a viable option, perhaps the only option (the rest of the world is rushing to emulate north america's consumerist lifestyle with potentially calamitous results). but they shouldn't be delivered by companies with massive monopolies. it seems that science should be for the good of mankind but usually ends up being for the good of a company's bottom line. i also support genetic modification of people. as we get sicker and sicker as a species, we will need to selectively alter our genome to ensure continued survival. i see truly the worst examples of "natural" selection walking around, and too often these are the people who breed the most and will pass onto the next generation all the damage they have done to their bodies.

end of rant. i'll go back to lining my walls with tinfoil now

Jelisej
05-26-2013, 08:21 PM
There is that proverb: "I am not rich enough to buy cheap things!" IMO it could apply to GMO food as well- there is tomato from my mums garden which is not being grown anymore as it is more expensive to grow, on other hand it has much more vitamins and minerals than GMO tomato- so in other hand its not really more expensive it just yields less profit for persons/company growing it.
Unfortunately- there were some research by some European organisation and they said that even organic is not what its ment to be. So if you are not farmer- you are screwed, its as simply as that.

I beleive that USA itself has enough fertile land to feed half of the world, nevermind USA alone. Here in Europe they have practice to throw tons of crops into the sea- to maintain stabile market prices.

So why we have a GMO food? I may be wrong but- I think its pure greed. Cut the expenses- increase profit.

Recently UN issued statement in which they encourage people from poorer countries to eat bugs and insects...
One day they will tell to us poorer folks that eating cows dung is good for us,
well- there must be some minerals in there...

DJM
05-27-2013, 06:12 AM
not a fan, imo its pandora's box

Rodja
05-27-2013, 08:30 AM
If only it wasn't a waste of time since Monsanto and the USDA are essentially the same entity.

Cdsnuts
05-30-2013, 08:30 PM
as we get sicker and sicker as a species, we will need to selectively alter our genome to ensure continued survival. i see truly the worst examples of "natural" selection walking around, and too often these are the people who breed the most and will pass onto the next generation all the damage they have done to their bodies.

end of rant. i'll go back to lining my walls with tinfoil now

The only reason we are getting sicker and sicker as a species is, for the most part, from shitty lifestyle choices and nothing else. You put shit food and toxic chemicals into your machine, your gonna get a shitty running machine, bottom line. People continually and habitually input bad information into their systems in the form of processed food and chemicals. What people don't realize is that our bodies actually "read" the information from the food we eat. Right down to the cellular level. When you eat whole, fresh, natural foods, our bodies take that genetic information and incorporate it into our cells for processing. The result is a healthy system that "does what it's told." When you continually eat frankenfood stuffs where the "code" is produced by man, the body, again, is just doing what it's told. The result is sickness, disease and chronic conditions. This is what makes GMO's so dangerous. They have no idea what playing with this code is going to do to the whole line of genetic material. Altering one set of genes inexplicably changes another. Everything is connected. Nothing in nature works in a vacuum. So they might make corn that doesn't fold under a toxic onslaught of pesticides, but they have no idea what is waiting on the other end of that change. It's all give and take. This is what they want us to believe is safe. They have absolutely no clue whether it's safe or not.

We are no where near advanced enough to think we can mess with nature in that way. There's way too many genes and way too many connections. This experiment is going to be a huge shit show. A disaster waiting to happen.

olddawg
05-30-2013, 08:47 PM
joining this party late, but this last and pman's post you guys mention that we are getting more sick as a species, aren't we living longer than ever? we are curing and livingwith/managing diseases that killed masses only 100 years ago.

O_RYAN_007
05-30-2013, 09:20 PM
I hate the company, and everything it does. GMOs should not consumed, period!

Cobalt
05-30-2013, 10:10 PM
I like food.

pman42
05-30-2013, 11:22 PM
cdsnuts, i didn't mean to imply that we are getting sicker for no reason. the BIG reason people are getting sick is what they do and don't do: eat too much of the wrong stuff and don't exercise. i don't see this pattern changing. people are too entrenched in their shitty, lazy, gluttonous lifestyles. this is why i think we will need to alter the genome.

and old dawg, people are indeed living longer, but in many cases they are barely living. is this really a life, being afflicted with a chronic, debilitating illness? before, cavemen were killed by spears or wooly mammoths. then early in our civilization it was childbirth and communicable diseases. now it's diseases that we inflict upon ourselves that are the major killers. even the conservative estimates say cancer and heart disease is 60% preventable.

olddawg
05-31-2013, 04:57 AM
I think people are living longer because of our advanced medicine and ability to keep them alive. In the past these disease would have killed us

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-31-2013, 04:58 AM
Yeah! I hate those guys who push this potentially harmful, unknown, untested stuff on me for the sake of profit.

On an unrelated note when is Mithras coming out?

- - - Updated - - -

OD

Are you refering to syphilis? And are you speaking from experience?

weekend
05-31-2013, 05:06 AM
joining this party late, but this last and pman's post you guys mention that we are getting more sick as a species, aren't we living longer than ever? we are curing and livingwith/managing diseases that killed masses only 100 years ago.

true, for so many other reasons... we could live even longer if we weren't sabotaging ourselves with this bullshit

olddawg
05-31-2013, 05:13 AM
true, for so many other reasons... we could live even longer if we weren't sabotaging ourselves with this bullshit

I don't deny that, as a society we also have to start taking an ethical look at how long we should be postponing out lives, and what life is according to quality

BoneDaddy
05-31-2013, 05:15 AM
I think people are living longer because of our advanced medicine and ability to keep them alive. In the past these disease would have killed us

Following up with what Pman said, our advanced medicine is advanced compared to years before, but at what cost? We have to take drugs for an illness then another drug or 2 to combat the side affects from the 1st drug. And our onslaught use of antibiotics are creating superbugs at an alarming rate. Stuff like this always makes me think of the irony of drugs and the FDA.....steroids bad; pharm drugs with incredible side affects good enough.

On another note, has anyone seen the studies pointing to GMO crops drastically reducing the Monarch butterfly numbers?

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 05:18 AM
joining this party late, but this last and pman's post you guys mention that we are getting more sick as a species, aren't we living longer than ever? we are curing and living with/managing diseases that killed masses only 100 years ago.

That depends. The generations before us, parents, grandparents, they were and are living longer then ever. But an alarming trend has developed. For the first time in a long time, the generations after me (I'm gen X) are not slated to outlive their parents. They are sicker then ever. Diabetes is manifesting it self in younger and younger kids. Strokes hare happening to people in their early 30's and 40's, Obesity related diseases have skyrocketed. Have you seen kids lately? It seems like they're almost all fat. When I was a kid we were all stick skinny from running around outside and playing till we were beat. There was always the one odd fat kid in the school. Now, the trend has changed. Most kids are fat and out of shape. The foods stuffs their parents are feeding them out of convenience is ruining them.

So, generally, as a species, if you look at the way our health is now, compared to say 100 years ago, we were much, much healthier and vibrant 100 years ago then we are today at the same age. That's fact. Sure, we can pump ourselves full of pharms and eek out living longer, but what kind of life are we living? People are merely existing like that....not living.

Here's something you guys on this site will appreciate. Did you know that Testosterone levels and sperm counts have dropped by almost 40-50% across the planet in "developed" nations? Thank mass consumption of processed foods and gender bending chemicals in everything from personal care products to cleaning products and industry bioproducts. We are swimming in xenoestrogenic chemicals.

Olddawg....if you took a young guy from say, WWII era, and compared them to a guy the same age today.....it would be a sorry comparison for the today's dude. The WWII guy would have higher Test levels, would be healthier and in better shape without trying. They didn't have the shit we have today. They also didn't have an environment which is polluted ridiculously like we do. They ate real food, real milk, real veggies and fruits. Rarely did they eat anything out of a package.

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 05:21 AM
cdsnuts, i didn't mean to imply that we are getting sicker for no reason. the BIG reason people are getting sick is what they do and don't do: eat too much of the wrong stuff and don't exercise. i don't see this pattern changing. people are too entrenched in their shitty, lazy, gluttonous lifestyles. this is why i think we will need to alter the genome.

and old dawg, people are indeed living longer, but in many cases they are barely living. is this really a life, being afflicted with a chronic, debilitating illness? before, cavemen were killed by spears or wooly mammoths. then early in our civilization it was childbirth and communicable diseases. now it's diseases that we inflict upon ourselves that are the major killers. even the conservative estimates say cancer and heart disease is 60% preventable.

To me, changing the genome is way, way to far off to be viable. And even so, that's like saying you need to rebuild the car because it's running bad instead of changing the gas your using. Makes more sense to just put what your supposed to in, to get what you want, out.

BoneDaddy
05-31-2013, 05:23 AM
That depends. The generations before us, parents, grandparents, they were and are living longer then ever. But an alarming trend has developed. For the first time in a long time, the generations after me (I'm gen X) are not slated to outlive their parents. They are sicker then ever. Diabetes is manifesting it self in younger and younger kids. Strokes hare happening to people in their early 30's and 40's, Obesity related diseases have skyrocketed. Have you seen kids lately? It seems like they're almost all fat. When I was a kid we were all stick skinny from running around outside and playing till we were beat. There was always the one odd fat kid in the school. Now, the trend has changed. Most kids are fat and out of shape. The foods stuffs their parents are feeding them out of convenience is ruining them.

So, generally, as a species, if you look at the way our health is now, compared to say 100 years ago, we were much, much healthier and vibrant 100 years ago then we are today at the same age. That's fact. Sure, we can pump ourselves full of pharms and eek out living longer, but what kind of life are we living? People are merely existing like that....not living.

Here's something you guys on this site will appreciate. Did you know that Testosterone levels and sperm counts have dropped by almost 40-50% across the planet in "developed" nations? Thank mass consumption of processed foods and gender bending chemicals in everything from personal care products to cleaning products and industry bioproducts. We are swimming in xenoestrogenic chemicals.

Olddawg....if you took a young guy from say, WWII era, and compared them to a guy the same age today.....it would be a sorry comparison for the today's dude. The WWII guy would have higher Test levels, would be healthier and in better shape without trying. They didn't have the shit we have today. They also didn't have an environment which is polluted ridiculously like we do. They ate real food, real milk, real veggies and fruits. Rarely did they eat anything out of a package.

Lots of good stuff in this post, as well as some scary stuff. We used to play football DAILY in someones yard as a good and we were allll thin and could run for hours. Not kids today. That's the exception instead of the norm. I've read several studies about the drop in Test in developed countries. Probably explains the burst of metrosexuals in past decades. lol And why do you think these 12 and 13 and 14 year old girls look like 19 year olds with those tits and bodies now? Alllll that shit in our food.........

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 05:28 AM
Following up with what Pman said, our advanced medicine is advanced compared to years before, but at what cost? We have to take drugs for an illness then another drug or 2 to combat the side affects from the 1st drug. And our onslaught use of antibiotics are creating superbugs at an alarming rate. Stuff like this always makes me think of the irony of drugs and the FDA.....steroids bad; pharm drugs with incredible side affects good enough.

On another note, has anyone seen the studies pointing to GMO crops drastically reducing the Monarch butterfly numbers?

We also are taking medicines for diseases that we are causing ourselves to have in the first place. Poor lifestyle choices = chronic disease = meds = more meds to counter sides from first meds.

olddawg
05-31-2013, 05:38 AM
Olddawg....if you took a young guy from say, WWII era, and compared them to a guy the same age today.....it would be a sorry comparison for the today's dude. The WWII guy would have higher Test levels, would be healthier and in better shape without trying. They didn't have the shit we have today. They also didn't have an environment which is polluted ridiculously like we do. They ate real food, real milk, real veggies and fruits. Rarely did they eat anything out of a package.

I'd kick that guy's ass lol. I agree there is so much shit out there, and because it's called food people eat it, the drugs my mom is an example, 100lb overweight, sore back, knees, taking Tylenol 3's all day long, going to the doc to see if he can give her something to make her feel better, yeah, sew her fkn mouth shut for a couple of months. We don't fix problems, we bandaid them. The people of 100 years ago were tougher too cause they had to be to survive. Put someone 1-2 degrees out of their comfort zone either too hot or too cold, and they're freezing or sweating to death, when 100 years ago to get your house 55 degrees in the winter was cozy. In Canada-in Ontario where we have gvt health care, we see these people poisoning themselves, willingly, and then sucking the health care system dry. Personally, I grow much of what I eat on my property, I think in my life, within the next 30 years it may come to people having to do this

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 05:56 AM
I'd kick that guy's ass lol.

Lol. Maybe you would....when was Tren invented?......lol

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 06:00 AM
And so it begins.....

Japan halts imports of U.S. wheat after USDA's shock finding of genetic pollution from GMOs (http://www.naturalnews.com/040572_Japan_GE_wheat_genetic_pollution.html)

BoneDaddy
05-31-2013, 06:02 AM
We also are taking medicines for diseases that we are causing ourselves to have in the first place. Poor lifestyle choices = chronic disease = meds = more meds to counter sides from first meds.

You are absolutely right. We are such a nation of convenience that it has made us lazy as fawk. The human body is designed/evolved to walk around 20 miles a day, but that shit aint happening. Until we as a nation decide to stop being lazy with our diets, exercise, and mentality, Big Pharm will continue to own us and make a fortune.

Jelisej
05-31-2013, 06:30 AM
Well, we can debate wether we are becoming more sick, but its fact that we are slowly becoming hermaphrodites, and there is strong connection with food. Hormone levels plummeted, nowdays men have less than 50% of testosterone levels compared to men before "industrial" revolution.

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 06:34 AM
Well, we can debate wether we are becoming more sick

I actually don't think it's a debate at all. As a nation and a country we ARE becoming sicker then ever.


its fact that we are slowly becoming hermaphrodites, and there is strong connection with food. Hormone levels plummeted, nowdays men have less than 50% of testosterone levels compared to men before "industrial" revolution.

If you've never seen the documentary,"The disappearing Male" I suggest you check it out. It's directly related to your comment above.

Fat Bill Dwyer
05-31-2013, 10:58 AM
Well, we can debate wether we are becoming more sick, but its fact that we are slowly becoming hermaphrodites, and there is strong connection with food. Hormone levels plummeted, nowdays men have less than 50% of testosterone levels compared to men before "industrial" revolution.

I think low-T levels generally benefit a society that has easy access to firearms. Also hermaphrodites are fucking hot.

longBallLima
05-31-2013, 12:45 PM
I think low-T levels generally benefit a society that has easy access to firearms. Also hermaphrodites are fucking hot.

and some can inseminate themselves!!! :confused:

olddawg
05-31-2013, 01:02 PM
I wish--that and the lions vs the bears and i'd be all set

Grape Ape
05-31-2013, 06:29 PM
I've never been one for the whole organic craze, and usually its a bunch of fu king numb nuts on that end, but this thread has really got me thinking.

Cdsnuts
05-31-2013, 06:53 PM
I've never been one for the whole organic craze, and usually its a bunch of fu king numb nuts on that end, but this thread has really got me thinking.

I hear ya. Usually it's the tree huggin, granola eatin hippie types that puts people off of the whole topic. But it shouldn't be! Everyone should know what is going on and in their food. If everyone was conscious of this, it would be way less of an issue then it has to be.

Grape Ape
05-31-2013, 07:55 PM
I dated a chick a few years back who stopped eating chicken because it causes cancer, according to some "China Study" book she read, but smoked a pack a day. Her whole family was organic freeks, but the type that still ate crap food, but just organically.

That's what turns me off to it. Most people who stand for the argument usually just tell me "organic food taste better" or "pesticides, pesticides, pesticides."

My thing is; I eat pretty damn clean. Lots of single ingredient foods. Am I really doing myself a disservice if my mixed nuts or Greek yogurt isn't organic?

I'd love to switch my meat over to grass fed free range, but that isn't an affordable option for me.

Eating clean > eating organic. Ideally both though, I know.

Cdsnuts
06-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Screening for estrogen and androgen receptor activities in 200 pesticides by in vitro reporter gene assays using Chinese hamster ovary cells. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1241915/)

ScienceDirect.com - Toxicology Letters - Effect of in vitro estrogenic pesticides on human oestrogen receptor ? and ? mRNA levels (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378427404001699)

Estrogen (http://cancerresourcecenter.com/articles/article38.html)

Cdsnuts
06-01-2013, 09:53 AM
I dated a chick a few years back who stopped eating chicken because it causes cancer, according to some "China Study" book she read, but smoked a pack a day. Her whole family was organic freeks, but the type that still ate crap food, but just organically.

That's what turns me off to it. Most people who stand for the argument usually just tell me "organic food taste better" or "pesticides, pesticides, pesticides."

My thing is; I eat pretty damn clean. Lots of single ingredient foods. Am I really doing myself a disservice if my mixed nuts or Greek yogurt isn't organic?

I'd love to switch my meat over to grass fed free range, but that isn't an affordable option for me.

Eating clean > eating organic. Ideally both though, I know.

Considering what is in most conventionally produced foods, I'm not sure that last statement is accurate. Eating clean > than eating organic crap, yes, but that's still not saying much, unfortunately.

You have to do what's comfortable for you. Everyone one is willing to accept different levels of risk for the sake of convenience. It's just very difficult to keep the poisons out of your life, because they're in everything. You just have to decide how you're gonna poison yourself. Is it gonna be the farm lot raised meat which is saturated in estrogenic compounds, antibiotics and other filth, or is it gonna be in your personal care products like your shave gel, shampoo, hair products (if you have any), etc. We just don't know what's worse at this point.

I personally try and minimize my exposure as best I can. I'm bald, so I don't have to use shampoos and gels. I eat clean, so I don't use deodorant ( don't smell either) I try and buy organic all the time if it's available. And I buy half and quarter grass fed, free range cows at a time and keep them in a huge freezer box. This isn't practical for alot of people.

Sometimes I even wonder if ignorance is bliss.....

olddawg
06-01-2013, 10:44 AM
when I looked into organic certification for my small hobby farm, all that I had to do was swear, and sign a declaration that no pesticides, etc... had been used on my land for a period of 2 (I think) years. there were other regulations, but basically it went on the word of the farmer that he didn't, and wasn't using any non organic substances. Now you might have strawberries, and put straw down inbetween the rows for weed control, moisture and to walk on, back then all you had to do was swear that that straw was bought from a certified organic farm, where in turn that farmer "said" he didn't use anything on it. it was all by work and not monitored at lease very much, I never even bothered to get certified at that time. The field next to me is organic cukes, the jamacians will stand on the harvester and hang their 10" dicks off the side and piss all over the cukes. Organic piss? IIIIII'm not eating it lol. Only way to know for sure is to know the farmer themselves, or do it yourself, don't trust the grocery store and the mass produced stuff. my 2 cents

Bucks
06-01-2013, 11:12 AM
Only 10"?

They must only be half Jamaican !

olddawg
06-01-2013, 11:38 AM
well I was like a thousand meters away lol, you wouldn't have to adjust for wind if you were taking a shot with DSR50 at 1km they are so big

Cdsnuts
06-01-2013, 12:20 PM
when I looked into organic certification for my small hobby farm, all that I had to do was swear, and sign a declaration that no pesticides, etc... had been used on my land for a period of 2 (I think) years. there were other regulations, but basically it went on the word of the farmer that he didn't, and wasn't using any non organic substances. Now you might have strawberries, and put straw down inbetween the rows for weed control, moisture and to walk on, back then all you had to do was swear that that straw was bought from a certified organic farm, where in turn that farmer "said" he didn't use anything on it. it was all by work and not monitored at lease very much, I never even bothered to get certified at that time. The field next to me is organic cukes, the jamacians will stand on the harvester and hang their 10" dicks off the side and piss all over the cukes. Organic piss? IIIIII'm not eating it lol. Only way to know for sure is to know the farmer themselves, or do it yourself, don't trust the grocery store and the mass produced stuff. my 2 cents

Damn. What a joke. That's how they roll up there, huh? Getting "certified organic" in the U.S. is a little more involved, thankfully. That being said, I'm sure there's still room for slip ups.

Cdsnuts
06-03-2013, 05:41 AM
Science journal hires former Monsanto scientist to decide which papers should be accepted or rejected (http://www.naturalnews.com/040607_Monsanto_scientific_studies_Food_and_Chemic al_Toxicology.html)

Macdon1588
06-03-2013, 08:51 AM
Well, as long as the GMO conglomerate sticks to wheat, grain and produce it won't be too much of a factor for me. (I have decided I'm a carnivore). I think the problem will be tracking GMO crap as it makes it way into food like cereal and bread. I shop at whole foods for the reason that they serve as watch dog for such things.

Cdsnuts
06-03-2013, 10:44 AM
I think the problem will be tracking GMO crap as it makes it way into food like cereal and bread.

Or the mouths of the animals you eat.

Macdon1588
06-03-2013, 11:18 AM
Or the mouths of the animals you eat.

I'm lucky in that regard, I know my farmer. I think I'm safe from GMO. Looking at his cattle, there might be some steroids in play, but no GMO unless those bastards are growing hay!

Cdsnuts
06-03-2013, 07:32 PM
I'm lucky in that regard, I know my farmer. I think I'm safe from GMO. Looking at his cattle, there might be some steroids in play, but no GMO unless those bastards are growing hay!

Two for one. Buy meat, save money on gear.

Cdsnuts
06-04-2013, 05:57 AM
Some better news in this post. This actually relates to the very first post in this thread. Is also brings up a good point about how the mainstream media coverage of this global event was minuscule at best. Main stream media = joke.

The Monsanto tipping point has been reached: We shall overcome global food injustice (GMO) (http://www.naturalnews.com/040608_Monsanto_grassroots_activism_tipping_point. html)

Cdsnuts
06-04-2013, 08:52 AM
Slightly OT, but still in the same arena as the direction of this thread.

'Let Them Eat Grass' documentary to expose massive government tyranny against small-scale farmers producing real food (http://www.naturalnews.com/040623_Morninglane_Dairy_Vernon_Hershberger_food_f reedom.html)

Cdsnuts
06-18-2013, 11:13 AM
Monsanto Video Revolt announced: Join the uprising by posting your video everywhere on July 24, 2013 (http://www.naturalnews.com/040825_Monsanto_Video_Revolt_grassroots_activism_G MOs.html)

Cdsnuts
06-19-2013, 10:37 AM
A must read for the health conscious.

GMOs linked to blood cell disorders, leukemia: New study (http://www.naturalnews.com/040857_GMO_leukemia_GM_crops.html#ixzz2WgAMHWln)

Cdsnuts
07-29-2013, 10:50 AM
I can't help myself.....

Groundbreaking investigation reveals Monsanto teaming up with US military to target GMO activists (http://www.naturalnews.com/041396_Monsanto_GMOs_US_government.html)

Interesting article, but a tad misleading....