My first AAS Cycle

[tallstraw]

In my past I have done 3 cycles.
4 week PP TBOL Cycle- Gained 30lbs and held onto 20 of them.
8 week AM+AH Cycle- Gained a few lbs and recomped a little.
6 week trenevar+11 oxo- With my pristine clan eating on 2100 2600 clean calories a day alternating between carbs and no carbs on lifting and non lifting days. I realized nutrition really is the key. Because when i started eating like shit, the gains pissed away, even while on cycle. So the weight I cut, I lost, and bloated a little back to where i was. I was just much stronger.

Then my PCT time came and during it, they threw me on plane back to the US from Afgh. Which was a half assed PCT tryign to sneak things through customs. So I got back and lifted and everything was fine. Lost about 30lbs on my bench and 40 on my deadlift. Then I started partying more and pissed away my gains. i didnt feel right to begin with, but living that lifestyle didn't help. I stopped working out more and more to party. So I figured my PCT failed. I didn'tfeel right. I had my confidence and all. i just didn't feel optimized if that makes sense, like i felt precycle.

So I thought a low dosed Exem run would help. in the short run it did help. Then I completely tanked my levels and was back at square one, but even worse. it affected my sex life. So per Jelisej's excellent advice I layed off all hormonal products for like 3 months or so. In that time I had wrist surgery, and have been going to occupational therapy. In that time I had my values checked, and my test was at like 430 something. So it solidified that I didn't originally recover well, or what. I feel okay now though, I feel great. So they're probably much higher.

i have gotten sloppy. Not eating well, not lifting, and just generol piece of shittyness. I'm disgusted with myself. 2013 was supposed to be my year, and all ive done so far is piss it away with excuses, and more excuses. I have stayed about the same weight(gained a little). But have steadily replaced my muscle with fat. i have been watching what i eat soemwhat lately, and getting back into pt with the Army. So Im losing weight. it's not terrible, by average person standards. but by fitness standards its terrible. I am seriosuly disgusted with myself, and the point ive let myself get to. So 2 weeks ago I started pinning some strango test 2 cc's a week which is 700mg.

I don't care that I should wait to max my potential and all. i really don't I wanna get back to where i WAS, AND BETTER. I am motiviated and more dedicated than ever. I will show you guys. I am thinking of addding dbol for 3 weeks, then midway through, try adrol, and then the last 2-3 weeks try whichever did better for any last minute mass. I'm not that concerned with fat gain, although with my diet, I think i should be ablw to keep it to a slight or average rate for a bulk. I'll cut later on.

I would love diet critiques. Im mostly gonna go by macros, not by posting foods to eat daily. I'm gonna push this out atleast 16 weeks. Havent decided on intermitten HcG, or HMG 4 weeks before the end of my cycle. I have fertomid, and whatever the generic tomax is for PCT. As well as ID Exem on hand for estro sides, and PCT.

I am gonna post pics, and want the harsh truth, but hopefully i can take it and use it as motivation. I no longer drink. I have fun with my gf, and grow mEDICAL marijuana for her. As I am her caregiver. Its a passion I really enjoy, and keeps me busy. I will post pictures soon.

TL;DR Cliffs
Havent been around much
Disgusted with self
Gonna run a 16wk test cycle
More motivated and dedicated than ever
Would love critiques
Hope this doesnt remind anyone of Ippy lol

[BoneDaddy]

Good luck man! I'll take this ride with you, as I know EXACTLY where you're coming from! For me, aside from diet/nutrition, the mindset is the hardest thing to overcome. Screw what you've already done or haven't done. Let's start today and keep it going forward! What's the old saying....the journey of a million miles begins with the 1st step? Let's step!

[Macdon1588]

I'm in Sir.

[JM1000]

Stick to your plan and all will be well ;) Just make sure PCT is taken care of completely this time. Eat clean and train hard, you will get back up there. Post some pics on here!

[JM1000]

What are your stats as of now and how much time have you been training?

[tallstraw]

6'4" probably 215 if I had to put a number on it. I was 205 before, and had almost 17in arms, my bench was 275, deadlift was 335 if I remember correctly, and squat was kept at 225, it really bothered my knee (I know it was my form, but every different persons advice I took, didn't change a thing). Right now at 215, I've lost a lot of muscle and have certainly replaced it with fat. I know the bulk is gonna add fat, but I think with a cleanish diet, and the cardio from PT for work in the morning 3< days a week. I should be able to minimize that. I'll post pics soon. I know they're gonna be bad, but fuck it, well, dont but fuck it, but, fuck it. I know a couple will be like max your natural potential first. But too late, already started.

I have hcg and my clomid a weeks worth of nolva, and AI, so pct is lined up. Have dbol, m40hn, m1t, winny, UD, SD, Var, so I have the hormones. But I'd prefer to keep it simple with feel good compounds and have a mostly clean bulk, through and through. Hopefully I'll have pics up beforethe weekend is over.

My bench sits at 200, much more from scared of pushing my wrist too far than it is I cant lift more. Which is why I'm gonna shoot for higher reps and not train for strength so to speak, this time around.
Deadlift is 225
Squat- no idea I just do 135 for reps till I can do no more.
Been lifting for like 2 years just never took the diet aspect seriously.
I'm starting from the ground up again, and figured I might as well just do pins.

[VayneZ]

In.

For how long now have you been lifting back full throttled, fully disciplined and determined?

[xxiv]

I saw the popsicle shit on phf, at least through it all you've kept yor sense of humor.

This cycle seems like a pivotal point for you, I hope it works out for the best and you get some momentum in the right direction. Keep it simple, focus on diet, training, rest and general health. Stay in the gym and in the kitchen and stay out of trouble. I'm glad to hear you've dropped the booze.

You seem like a nice kid, a little jump start in the gains department with the help from some good ole test and a proper pct migh be just the thing you need right now.

Post your routine and diet.

[Jelisej]

Use HCG during entire cycle, use some AI during cycle just to prevent E2 to raise too much, and then at the end of cycle bring E2 down (increase Ai dosage) also after stoping test. shots- run HCG+AI till testosterone clears of the system and then move into PCT- clomid+ low dose of AI (preferably aromasin) you may add some natural test booster like tongkat ali. If you get calculations right you shoul not feel much of the side effect, and your test. level hopefully will never drop too low even during PCT. Make sure you run clomid for long time in an effort to bring your TT levels up to a your natural levels. So run clomid EOD 50 mg for 3-4 weeks than run 3X a week for 3 weeks than 2X a week for like 3 weeks. you may continue with 2X a week for a while if you feel need for it.

During cycle add some pregnenolone, try with 50mg in 2X doses may increase a bit if you feel like it.

And after this cycle take really long time off, or even get off aas completely. But in any case you need to be off for at least 9 months.


Other thing is- there is strong mind-and-body connection, and use positive feel you get on cycle to progress mentaly as well as physically.
There is very old expression: Mens sana in corpore sano - a healthy mind in a healthy body.

Good luck!

[O_RYAN_007]

Use HCG during entire cycle, use some AI during cycle just to keep E2 to raising too much, and then at the end of cycle bring E2 down (increase Ai dosage) also after stoping test. shots- run HCG+AI till testosterone clears of the system and then move into PCT- clomid+ low dose of AI (preferably aromasin) you may add some natural test booster like tongkat ali. If you get calculations right you shoul not feel much of the side effect, and your test. level hopefully will never drop too low even during PCT. Make sure you run clomid for long time in an effort to bring your TT levels up to a your natural levels. So run clomid EOD 50 mg for 3- weeks than run 3X a week for 3 weeks than 2X a week for like 3 weeks. you may continue with 2X a week for a while if you feel need for it.

During cycle add some pregnenolone, try with 50mg in 2X doses may increase a bit if you feel like it.

And after this cycle take really long time off, or even get off aas completely. But in any case you need to be off for at least 9 months.


Other thing is- there is strong mind-and-body connection, and use positive feel you get on cycle to progress mentaly as well as physically.
There is very old expression: Mens sana in corpore sano - a healthy mind in a healthy body.

Good luck!

Great advice as always J, killer sound advice!

[DJM]

solid advice jj, i agree about the time off, for fear of heading towards aas as a crutch territory

[Jelisej]

solid advice jj, i agree about the time off, for fear of heading towards aas as a crutch territory

Thanks, its good to get compliment from you regarding aas/cycles, as I consider you crème de la crème in that topic.

[DJM]

Thanks, its good to get compliment from you regarding aas/cycles, as I consider you crème de la crème in that topic.

im always learning myself, just i benefited from starting at age 30, wiser for sure, less mistakes ect

you tho, fkn encyclopedia, when burly gets advice from you over his md, tells you something

[Jelisej]

im always learning myself, just i benefited from starting at age 30, wiser for sure, less mistakes ect

you tho, fkn encyclopedia, when burly gets advice from you over his md, tells you something

But fact is that you guys are lot more experienced, and not to mention chest size, and those things that add a lot of "weight" to yours words.

[DJM]

meh, anything in life need both theoretical and practical experience

[Jelisej]

meh, anything in life need both theoretical and practical experience

yeah... Honestly, I always see myself as the other side of the coin- in a mind-and-muscle connection I'm more interested in mind and sense of wellbeing and muscles as secondary, you guys have more interest in muscles- but there are so many crossroads on both paths that its almost as we are on same road... or maybe we are on same road?

[DJM]

yeah... Honestly, I always see myself as the other side of the coin- in a mind-and-muscle connection I'm more interested in mind and sense of wellbeing and muscles as secondary, you guys have more interest in muscles- but there are so many crossroads on both paths that its almost as we are on same road... or maybe we are on same road?

im as health conscious as possible, the doses are use are alot lower than alot of guys who i dare say not in my league.....im from the burly school of thought, get the most out of the least........one of my favorite supps is greens formula....i eat pretty well and so on......id never trade my health for muscles

[USN HM 350Z]

Honestly man, looking at your numbers you need to spend more time working out and eating right without aas or ph's. You are tall, so I will give you room on the bench numbers, but the dead lift and squat really need work. You are young and have a lot of room for growth naturally. Stop trying to rush things and do it right. Quality muscle and strength take time and hard work. JMO as I know all these young guys ask for advice and then do what they want anyways lol

[Sperwer]

Honestly man, looking at your numbers you need to spend more time working out and eating right without aas or ph's. You are tall, so I will give you room on the bench numbers, but the dead lift and squat really need work. You are young and have a lot of room for growth naturally. Stop trying to rush things and do it right. Quality muscle and strength take time and hard work. JMO as I know all these young guys ask for advice and then do what they want anyways lol

I'm with USN on this. I can't speak to the technicalities of your proposed cycle but, frankly, while you seem to have the will, it doesn't sound to me like you have the discipline to do it effectively. It seems like you are reaching for the gear as a bit of a quick-fix. That's not unusual - we've probably all done so at one point or another, and the temptation never really goes away - witness my recently expressed consideration of upping my current parabolan cycle - my first AAS run (although I've done my fair share of PHs in the past) - to 400 a week. Squadron leader Burly talked me down very politely, and my coach was more harsh, admonishing me not to get greedy. I think you should spend a fair amount of time settling onto the path with some sustained lifting and nutrition - and sustained avoidance of partying and drinking, etc. - before having a go.

[Coolazice]

Words of wisdom being spoke here. :cool:

[weekend]

6'4" probably 215 if I had to put a number on it. I was 205 before, and had almost 17in arms, my bench was 275, deadlift was 335 if I remember correctly, and squat was kept at 225, it really bothered my knee (I know it was my form, but every different persons advice I took, didn't change a thing). Right now at 215, I've lost a lot of muscle and have certainly replaced it with fat. I know the bulk is gonna add fat, but I think with a cleanish diet, and the cardio from PT for work in the morning 3< days a week. I should be able to minimize that. I'll post pics soon. I know they're gonna be bad, but fuck it, well, dont but fuck it, but, fuck it. I know a couple will be like max your natural potential first. But too late, already started.

I have hcg and my clomid a weeks worth of nolva, and AI, so pct is lined up. Have dbol, m40hn, m1t, winny, UD, SD, Var, so I have the hormones. But I'd prefer to keep it simple with feel good compounds and have a mostly clean bulk, through and through. Hopefully I'll have pics up beforethe weekend is over.

My bench sits at 200, much more from scared of pushing my wrist too far than it is I cant lift more. Which is why I'm gonna shoot for higher reps and not train for strength so to speak, this time around.
Deadlift is 225
Squat- no idea I just do 135 for reps till I can do no more.
Been lifting for like 2 years just never took the diet aspect seriously.
I'm starting from the ground up again, and figured I might as well just do pins.

moving these way higher should be your goal, IMO... Your squat form definitely needs a video posted

[DJM]

missed that at the end
2 yrs going into 4th cycle? dude your lifts are low cause you relied on gear for gains and strength and never learned otherwise

im with USM bad idea to cycle

anyone who truly wants to build has to have the basics somewhat down

this is ippy-ish

[JM1000]

X2 weekend, if you post a squat video, maybe people can chime in and fix your form. It would be a good start! 135 on the squat will keep your progress to a minimum :S.

Good luck with your run, keep us posted!

[burlyman30]

What should I add here?...

If memory serves me right, I encouraged you to wait on your very first ph cycle and build a solid base first.

There are different things learned by doing it "my way" vs "your way". You became quickly well versed in all the different compounds and how they would affect you and made some substantial gains out of the gate.

My gains came slower, over years rather than months. In the process, I learned the importance of form, form variation, training routine differences and the construction of well laid out routines for strength or size, nutrition for building maintaining or cutting, injury prevention or the ability to work around one, rest and recuperation, overtraining, tweaks and tricks of particular exercises, and the list goes on.

I didn't have the anabolic compounds to "make up" for my deficits. I had to figure all those out. In the end, I'm miles ahead for it. Even when I wasn't able to train for months at a time because of health issues, I still maintained a semi-athletic body. And when training resumed, muscle memory took over and strength and size returned fairly soon afterward.

Though I don't think your approach is best or smartest, I don't expect that my words will carry any more weight than they did prior to your first cycle. People do what they want. We all do it in one aspect or another. If this is what you think you need to get you back to it again, so be it. Though I won't compare you directly with ippy, keep in mind that if we see another thread like this from you in 6 or 12 months, the ippy comparisons will be forever emblazened upon the tallstraw name. :)

Best of wishes in getting back and keeping your training mojo. I hope to see you stick with it from here on out.

[tallstraw]

What should I add here?...

If memory serves me right, I encouraged you to wait on your very first ph cycle and build a solid base first.

There are different things learned by doing it "my way" vs "your way". You became quickly well versed in all the different compounds and how they would affect you and made some substantial gains out of the gate.

My gains came slower, over years rather than months. In the process, I learned the importance of form, form variation, training routine differences and the construction of well laid out routines for strength or size, nutrition for building maintaining or cutting, injury prevention or the ability to work around one, rest and recuperation, overtraining, tweaks and tricks of particular exercises, and the list goes on.

I didn't have the anabolic compounds to "make up" for my deficits. I had to figure all those out. In the end, I'm miles ahead for it. Even when I wasn't able to train for months at a time because of health issues, I still maintained a semi-athletic body. And when training resumed, muscle memory took over and strength and size returned fairly soon afterward.

Though I don't think your approach is best or smartest, I don't expect that my words will carry any more weight than they did prior to your first cycle. People do what they want. We all do it in one aspect or another. If this is what you think you need to get you back to it again, so be it. Though I won't compare you directly with ippy, keep in mind that if we see another thread like this from you in 6 or 12 months, the ippy comparisons will be forever emblazened upon the tallstraw name. :)

Best of wishes in getting back and keeping your training mojo. I hope to see you stick with it from here on out.

Well, fuck...
I guess I'll stop then. I completely forgot to check this. I came back and read posts. But forgot to check my own thread. People kind of tell me what to do, and I do my own thing. But when people tell me what I want to do, just how to do it correctly or better, I always listen. But where has that gotten me? Tired of lifting, partying, a dui (almost) and now I'm fairly out of shape, especially in lifters terms. So as much as it pains me to say it, because I was just starting to reap the benefits of this test (having sex like 5 times a day, and constant norbs). I'll start taking the hcg when I buy some bac water, and pct as well, in 2 weeks. I'll finally listen to someone. Let's see how it works out.

[VayneZ]

Straw, I admire you for listening to wise advise. We all want the best for you here, and imo bodybuilding is more ''mental''-building/power then ''body''.

I know how awesome it feels to be on test bro, but, as difficult as it may appear, battle this one, mentally! Train, eat, sleep as a soldier on a mission would. Make this lifestyle your priority and set your mind on the goal bro! When you have built your foundation and base solidly, bro, you run that cycle! And you'll see, AND feel, better than you ever imagined!

We got your back through the journey... but you must battle mentally through! Determined!

[Jelisej]

Personaly, considering that he is already in his third week of cycle and that prior cycle his testosterone levels were low- I tought that he may as well finish it and then try with long PCT/clomid restart protocol try to bring his hormone levels back to normal, I do agree that this cycle was mistake, and he needs to work on his self-confidence, mentality etc...

[nate3993]

wait. u grow medical marijuana for ur gf? wtf

[Grape Ape]

wait. u grow medical marijuana for ur gf? wtf
Did I miss something?

[tallstraw]

Nope I do, I grow hydro, soiless and soil. The first 2 require daily attention and I enjoy it, so it keeps me busy and out of trouble when I get off work. I don't smoke or anything, I just grow for her. It's at her house, I bought it all, and when we 'donate' to the dispensary(she's a medical patient, I'm a legal caregiver I can do everything but smoke). I'll use the money I make to pay off my car, credit, etc. If anything is left over we'll go on a trip.

Jelise, I understand I need to work on my mentality, and it's now kind of painfully obvious to myselr I use these as a crutch. But I dont have confidence issues?...I have immaturity issues lol. I think I take steroids too lightly, and wanna use em all willy nilly, because it does feel awesome. In the sense of pumps, and well being. I normally feel really great, but idk how to explain it, on them. I just feel better, things don't suck as bad I feel sharper mentally, I'm actually a lot calmer for the most part. But the pump, oh boy, that pump is awesome, and seing your body change and weights move a lot easier a on weekly, and sometimes daily basis. It's just incredible. I don't have issues with confidence, atleast I think. I have issues with immaturity and being too impulsive/short sighted. But that's just a view introspectively, maybe jt was a wrong observation.

[longBallLima]

Jel brings it again. IMHO stopping mid cycle when you're shutdown already might be just pushing for another shutdown after all issues are sorted out.

and i know it's been beaten to death, but whats with all the 20 y.o's running gear?
this issue ties into Infamy's post really well... moderation and patience makes it safer

[tallstraw]

They wanna get big, pretty simple lol.

I never keep my gear on base, but i did to pin, i cant shoot my own butt, idk why. Delts legs, all fine, butt, i just never think Im in the right spot. So my buddy was gonna do it for me. I had it barely hidden and we had a health and wellness inspectio ...they almost found it. Great timing huh? Then last night Doctor P, and KOAN Sound (dubstep artists) came through Seattle. I just had to go to my first concert ever. Had drinks, apparently not drinking for weeks really kills your tolerance to that of a 16yr old girl. I had like 3 shots and 4beers over 5 hours, and I was gone. No more drinking, that was a very, very special occassion. But I had a way home and all and planned it out so no repeat of last time. Got 1 hour of sleep and was still drunk...pt was rough lol

Legs are later today, cant wait to puke lol

[weekend]

So you're continuing your cycle? And you live in seattle?

[tallstraw]

Im stationed down in Tacoma.
Should I be stopping or continuing. You guys are giving me 2 different responses
1 intelligent side said stoo, so I listened..the other said continue and do a long pct to prevent a weird shutdown. I have no problem doing either if it's bst for me. But I'm getting 2 different forms of advice here. I went with the last one given. I'm not putting blame or saying this is like someone's fault but I'm being pulled in 2 different directions.

[weekend]

I would finish your cycle and spend it working really hard on your squat and deadlift and make your form immaculate, realizing you have a lot more progress to make and you should not cycle again for a long time, until you can double the results from the cycle naturally, which will take a fuck ton of dedication. By then, you should be solid. I wouldn't expect you to be that far along by the end of a test e cycle starting with a 135 squat, but I think you're pretty shutdown by now so finish what you started. Recovery from my 16 weeker was a drag though.

[Jelisej]

I would finish your cycle and spend it working really hard on your squat and deadlift and make your form immaculate, realizing you have a lot more progress to make and you should not cycle again for a long time, until you can double the results from the cycle naturally, which will take a fuck ton of dedication. By then, you should be solid. I wouldn't expect you to be that far along by the end of a test e cycle starting with a 135 squat, but I think you're pretty shutdown by now so finish what you started. Recovery from my 16 weeker was a drag though.

I agree on this, tough its not neccessary to go 16 weeks. And as well as training he should train his mentality, as strange as it sounds- as much as he train his muscles he can train his subconscious mind- basically he should use "good feel" and positive statements and engrave them in his mind.
For subconscious mind, person must beleive in what is trying to engrave- because on cycle his mood will be elevated and full of self esteem subc. mind will be convinced in positive statements/afirmations.
Pygmalion effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect)

After cycle is finished- take very long pct, and after that you should be done with your cycles, for good.

[tallstraw]

Roger that.

[JM1000]

Go on with the cycle. Push yourself to the limit but don't you quit once you're done!

[Fat Bill Dwyer]

Usually I'm an "Just do it" kind of guy, but I gotta go with Burly and DJM on this one. I'm a 76" too, and I started out real skinny (180) It wasn't until I really learned how to eat/squat/dead that I was able to actually make gains that would stick around, even when I got injured and couldn't really kill it in the gym. I think that because of this base I can on most of my lean body mass sticking around even when I'm reduced to bodyweight excercises for extended periods. As a military guy you're in the same sort of situation.

I bet you could hit 225 at 12% natty with just a few tweaks, and that stuff sticks around. Drop 16wks of test on that and you'll be beautiful!

*Edit*

Oh yeah, as a long-limbed 76"er I would encourage you to squat wide, if You're in a rack your toes should touch the sides, also do a lot of pulling variations, but when you're going heavy do it sumo. Again if you're pulling in a rack your toes should touch the sides.

If you're not eating a lot more than your buddies you're not eating enough! To be muscular at your height you will have to murder calories! Drink that milk buddy!

Hope that helps man.

[Sperwer]

I recommend stopping the cycle immediately and doing the required PCT. In the meantime and thereafter, work on the basics: nutrition, nutrition, nutrition; correct form exercise; and mental/"spiritual" focus. You're still all over the place - what with the concert shenanigans you report. You need to start walking the walk on the BB path - it's a life-time journey, not a trip to the (underground) drugstore - and develop the physical and, especially, the mental, foundation for being able to then use AAS or phs as an effective and (relatively) safe tool. This isn't easy; put your apparent reserves of willpower to work on it, though, and you'll do fine.

[tallstraw]

Well, that's that then. I'll stop injecting. And get on trying to do it 'right'. I eat like a horse, everyone is amazed by how much I can eat. I'll get back to the basics with some GOMAD.
Dwyer, I had no idea my stance should be that wide on squat, that could be it. I'm normally wider than my friends, but not by much. Deadlifts however I already used that. I would use close stance until I could no longer lift, my grip was giving out, or I ccouldn't loft it with good form anymore. Then I'd go to sumo style and straps for the higher weight.

[burlyman30]

You got two different opinions because there are two sides to the argument. I never told you to stop the cycle, I just said it wasn't the smartest move. Do what you want and be smarter from here forward.

[Jelisej]

Tallstraw, do you have a mind of your own? You should be able to decide for yourself.

At this moment you are probably shut down, considering you had low test to begin with- if if you stop you would need to do all sorts of manipulation to get it right, there is no time for that, if you're fucked then try to at least get something out of it.

No offence to you guys, but I dont see why you are so hung on when you started using PH's or how much you can lift, this guy here is in a pretty shitty situation (IMO) and that should be addressed first, altough with his mentality and lack of masculine identity (classical Freudian example) he will always be liability and danger to himself and maybe others.

[Fat Bill Dwyer]

Well, that's that then. I'll stop injecting. And get on trying to do it 'right'. I eat like a horse, everyone is amazed by how much I can eat. I'll get back to the basics with some GOMAD.
Dwyer, I had no idea my stance should be that wide on squat, that could be it. I'm normally wider than my friends, but not by much. Deadlifts however I already used that. I would use close stance until I could no longer lift, my grip was giving out, or I ccouldn't loft it with good form anymore. Then I'd go to sumo style and straps for the higher weight.

I'm assuming we have pretty similar proportions when I say the following:

I wouldn't say you MUST be wide on squats, but it really helped me a lot. If you're eating a lot and still not getting bigger then you probably have too much volume in your workouts. You're a big guy already and it takes a lot of calories to maintain that. If you burn too many during a workout and THE RUNS the military is making you do, you'll never gain. When you're trying to get big Army Running = bad, Army Rucking = awesome.

Not sure how much you PT, but less is more when you're trying to get bigger.

Are you using double-overhand grips when you dead? Try going under/over and you'll probably be able to ditch the straps. If you start chasing a high 1RM you might benefit immensly. Maybe start sumo? I notice when I pull sumo my lower back takes less of a beating, and my hammies/glutes work a lot harder. This allows me to lift more weight and really get my upper back busy.

I know I never gained anything but soreness out of high rep deads. Once I started sumo and low repping I went from trouble with 365 to 555 in about two years. Not huge numbers by any means, but way better than where I was.

Totally agree with GOMAD, it is a godsend for tall guys. You have to win the calorie fight to win mass. Run less, eat mOAR!

[DJM]

Tallstraw, do you have a mind of your own? You should be able to decide for yourself.

At this moment you are probably shut down, considering you had low test to begin with- if if you stop you would need to do all sorts of manipulation to get it right, there is no time for that, if you're fucked then try to at least get something out of it.

No offence to you guys, but I dont see why you are so hung on when you started using PH's or how much you can lift, this guy here is in a pretty shitty situation (IMO) and that should be addressed first, altough with his mentality and lack of masculine identity (classical Freudian example) he will always be liability and danger to himself and maybe others.

great post, i see it the same way..............its not the weights its his mental state, hence when i referenced the 'crutch'......being on test has psychological 'pick me ups' to it them im sure helps him...........only thing is i dont see point in staying on, he needs to be decisive in his convictions which would start by getting off now and having to endure the struggle to get back to normalcy, and truly see if he has the gumption to do this........continuing the cycle in my mind seems to just prolong the enevitable and probably sway his mind back to that crutch mentality when hes in week 12 and feeling good

[Fat Bill Dwyer]

Tallstraw, do you have a mind of your own? You should be able to decide for yourself.

At this moment you are probably shut down, considering you had low test to begin with- if if you stop you would need to do all sorts of manipulation to get it right, there is no time for that, if you're fucked then try to at least get something out of it.

No offence to you guys, but I dont see why you are so hung on when you started using PH's or how much you can lift, this guy here is in a pretty shitty situation (IMO) and that should be addressed first, altough with his mentality and lack of masculine identity (classical Freudian example) he will always be liability and danger to himself and maybe others.

Holy shit J why don't you just call him a puppy-kicker too?

I think the reason people get hung up on when you start is because it correlates pretty well with how much you will maintain. Obviously this isn't true for everybody, but if you haven't developed practical diet/workout know-how and are not practicing diet/workout discipline before a cycle you probably won't start afterwards. You'll end the cycle on a shitty diet and get fatter than when you started. Once you've developed those new adipocytes you're stuck with them for at least 10 years, they might get smaller but they will still be there waiting to pounce and explode the next time you decide you want to drink another beer, or eat an icecream pop. So in a very real way you are worse off than when you started.

I don't buy that there is no benefit to cutting 8 weeks off a cycle, the longer something is down the harder it is to get it back up. the difference between PCT after a 5 week and an 8 week cycle of harsh methyls is very noticeable, can't imagine it would be that much different with injectables with much longer duration.

This is all IMHO stuff though, take it for what it's worth. (Except the puppy-kicker part, be easy on him!)

[tallstraw]

Tallstraw, do you have a mind of your own? You should be able to decide for yourself.

At this moment you are probably shut down, considering you had low test to begin with- if if you stop you would need to do all sorts of manipulation to get it right, there is no time for that, if you're fucked then try to at least get something out of it.

No offence to you guys, but I dont see why you are so hung on when you started using PH's or how much you can lift, this guy here is in a pretty shitty situation (IMO) and that should be addressed first, altough with his mentality and lack of masculine identity (classical Freudian example) he will always be liability and danger to himself and maybe others.

Dude, what are you talking about; enough is enough. I have a mind of my own, and it was to do the cycle, hence why I started a fucking cycle. To get me 100% into it and put me in the right state of mind to really honw in on what I wanna do. Did I use it as a crutch, Iinstead of my own motivation to do it natty, first. Yes, yes I did, was that right, no. But if i was 30 years old, and made the same posts, most pwople would've said goodluck and all that jazz. I say it with conviction too, because I see those logs, day in and day out. But don't get on here and start throwing shit around like you got your BA, then your masters, and have been practicing psychology for years. Readijg some articles doesn't make you an expert, nor can reading a few lines of what I post. What is a lack of masculine identity being determined by first off? Because I came on here and said I'm doing so-and-so, which basically everyone shot down. So I started doubting that it was right, and went to go stop, then you said no use in stopping, get what you can out of it. Then a few echoed what you said as well. Either way I fucked up by starting so I was trying to make the most educated decision since either way I fucked up already. Being condescending doesn't get your point across any better, you look like a pompous asshole. Can you atleast point out these "classic Freudian examples" since nothing has been edited. Or do you just pull stuff out of your ass because I don't live my life like you do, and yours is somehow the correct way. In the end, putting people down doesn't raise you up any. What is my shitty situation as well, I'd say considering everything, I have it pretty easy, 75% of people around me have it worse than me. I'd actually say I'm fairly blessed, because I'm not being dealt bad hands, every problem I have is a result of a bad choice. Not once has any of my decisions created a danger foe those around me, nor will they. Get off your fucking soap box, clown. I respect the shit out of your hormonal advice, but you definitely just lost some credibility elsewhere, from me.



To dwyer, yeah we run alot. But luckily today and coming up we have spur ride and spur ride activities so well be rucking and stuff, like todays 5mile'r. I'll keep all that in mind. YES, I normally do overhand, and when mygrip starts going I switch to hooks. Once thats out, it sumo and straps

Mod can just delete this journal if they want. I got what I needed out of this. I know how to handle sides, I'll be back in a few months with the update.

[LBC-83]

I'm too lazy to look it up but aren't you the one who admitted to driving drunk?

EDIT: I lied, I'm not lazy, it was you.


Dude, what are you talking about; enough is enough. I have a mind of my own, and it was to do the cycle, hence why I started a fucking cycle. To get me 100% into it and put me in the right state of mind to really honw in on what I wanna do. Did I use it as a crutch, Iinstead of my own motivation to do it natty, first. Yes, yes I did, was that right, no. But if i was 30 years old, and made the same posts, most pwople would've said goodluck and all that jazz. I say it with conviction too, because I see those logs, day in and day out. But don't get on here and start throwing shit around like you got your BA, then your masters, and have been practicing psychology for years. Readijg some articles doesn't make you an expert, nor can reading a few lines of what I post. What is a lack of masculine identity being determined by first off? Because I came on here and said I'm doing so-and-so, which basically everyone shot down. So I started doubting that it was right, and went to go stop, then you said no use in stopping, get what you can out of it. Then a few echoed what you said as well. Either way I fucked up by starting so I was trying to make the most educated decision since either way I fucked up already. Being condescending doesn't get your point across any better, you look like a pompous asshole. Can you atleast point out these "classic Freudian examples" since nothing has been edited. Or do you just pull stuff out of your ass because I don't live my life like you do, and yours is somehow the correct way. In the end, putting people down doesn't raise you up any. What is my shitty situation as well, I'd say considering everything, I have it pretty easy, 75% of people around me have it worse than me. I'd actually say I'm fairly blessed, because I'm not being dealt bad hands, every problem I have is a result of a bad choice. Not once has any of my decisions created a danger foe those around me, nor will they. Get off your fucking soap box, clown. I respect the shit out of your hormonal advice, but you definitely just lost some credibility elsewhere, from me.



To dwyer, yeah we run alot. But luckily today and coming up we have spur ride and spur ride activities so well be rucking and stuff, like todays 5mile'r. I'll keep all that in mind. YES, I normally do overhand, and when mygrip starts going I switch to hooks. Once thats out, it sumo and straps

Mod can just delete this journal if they want. I got what I needed out of this. I know how to handle sides, I'll be back in a few months with the update.

[h2s]

OP has stated that the thread has run its course, so it will be closed. Tension seems to be building here and this thread won't go anywhere positive.