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Grape Ape
06-17-2013, 07:46 PM
Besides being the definition of a hard gainer(6ft 135lbs in 2009) I have some symmetry issues.

My right pec is significantly smaller than my left. It's almost completely an inner pec issue, and is quite obvious. Even more as I slowly drop body fat.

The right side of my abs as well, are much smaller. Almost to the point that as my body fat lowers, you can see my left abs but not my right.

For the pec, I've tried just dumbbellS for a period of time. Only barbell chest work, and very short lived; only right pec work.

Abs I haven't felt with and not sure I can. Time will tell as I get closer to sun 10%.

I've always been in the thought that this would correct itself as I got bigger. It hasn't.

I can't be the only one in that has dealt with this issue. I'm contemplating adding in a set of pec decs only on the right side 3 times a week. I also have thought it might be a fascia problem as sometimes my right pec feels real tight and sore for no reason. Almost as if its begging to be stretched. Pain is centered, in the inner part.

Tips? Ideas? Or just let it go.

USN HM 350Z
06-17-2013, 08:07 PM
willing to post pics? Did you have the issues before you started lifting? What about quads and calves? any family history of neurological issues? How is your spinal alignment?

Grape Ape
06-17-2013, 09:26 PM
Maybe on the pics, if I get a chance but only in PM.

This is what Rodja had to say about my body issues once.

Your left arm is internally rotated and your shoulders are not even. From the looks of it, your right upper trap is elevated. You'll most likely need some active release therapy (ART) and a renovated lifting program..


As far as neurological disorders, I have irregular brain activity as shown by EEG's, that resulted in petite mal seizures as a child. This has been controlled by medication, and my first and last 24 hour EEG showed no issues. This was in 2011. I'm in works of switching to a new doctor and coming off meds.
Other than the seizures my underlying issue never really has been explained.

Quads and calfs are similarly sized by look. No measurements to make sure.
Spinal alignment is fine as far as posture.

At 6ft and 135lbs I can't say I had enough muscle to notice these issues.

Grape Ape
06-17-2013, 09:39 PM
As Rodjas recomendations(I forgot about them unroll I made this thread) I will be looking into Active Release Therapy(ART) tomorrow.

Also to add: I injured my Right shoulder about 2 years ago, x-rays showed deteriorated cartilage. It hurts somewhat on bench and upright rows are rarely an option any more.

Sperwer
06-17-2013, 10:57 PM
As Rodjas recomendations(I forgot about them unroll I made this thread) I will be looking into Active Release Therapy(ART) tomorrow.

Also to add: I injured my Right shoulder about 2 years ago, x-rays showed deteriorated cartilage. It hurts somewhat on bench and upright rows are rarely an option any more.

I've been undergoing a course of myofascial massage and chiropractic, both of which essentially involve the same or similar techniques to ART, for my shoulders and thoracic area generally, especially my left shoulder, which was badly damaged twice as a result of major blunt force trauma in serious accidents and then went untreated for decades. I also have done reformative pilates therapy. The results in 6 weeks have been truly remarkable. Just make sure you find really good providers.

Grape Ape
06-18-2013, 12:26 AM
Of course. As long as they take my insurance.

burlyman30
06-18-2013, 12:46 AM
At 6ft and 135lbs I can't say I had enough muscle to notice these issues.

Time to bulk you up a bit, Ape!

On the symmetry issue, consider "squeezing the muscle" as you do your chest exercise. Not literally squeeze, but rather, contract it. Flex it hard during your movement. All the way up and down. You should feel a vast difference. Practice it with a very light weight before going heavier and don't expect to use your normal poundages for a bit. If you are doing it right, you should be on the verge of cramping up the muscle at the end of the set.

With the abs, do either a crunch, a roman chair situp, or a leg raise with one variation. Twist the weak side to the front and the strong side to the back. This will partially deactivate the strong side and accentuate the activation of the weak side.

Grape Ape
06-18-2013, 01:21 AM
burley, I laugh in the face of anyone who claims a hard gainer. I can remember being that small and cutting weight for wrestling. A sport I could ha e used some more strength in. That was about 45 pounds ago(well at my heaviest). I'll finish my cut/recomp lower mid 170's.

The Bulking log is coming(with pics) soon. You'll all have a hand in how I grow. Natty too. I'd like to hit 190lbs before I cycle again.

As for squeezing the muscle; I've always been a huge advocate for this myself. Mostly with pec deck of DB work, but ill make an effort to make it my primary focus on bench.

Very hard to get this issue to show in a picture. As soon as I can, I'll have a pec pic up.

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-18-2013, 05:39 AM
I know people hate on the Hammer Press, but being able to isolate your lagging side could benefit you. An uneven DB press could do the same thing if you're too cool to hammer press.

When you say "inner Pec" are you talking about where it meets the sternum? You said it feels like it is "begging to be stretched" so apply a hot-pack and stretch the thing out already! Lay on a bench (or couch, or bed) with a 5 pound DB in your hand and let it hang in different positions.

Also how's your back symetry? Are you tight back there too?

Cdsnuts
06-18-2013, 05:22 PM
Have you ever considered the fact that you are just, by nature, asymmetrical? People in general aren't created perfect. It's more common then you think. Some are more asymmetrical then others.

longBallLima
06-18-2013, 07:30 PM
I'm sure it's nothing like this but it reminded me anyway since I saw this episode last week.

'Taboo': Asymmetrical 350-Pound Man Has All Of His Fat Distributed On The Left Side Of His Body (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/taboo-asymmetrical-350-pound-man-video_n_2008118.html)

Grape Ape
06-18-2013, 07:46 PM
Have you ever considered the fact that you are just, by nature, asymmetrical? People in general aren't created perfect. It's more common then you think. Some are more asymmetrical then others.
I understand this completely, and this isn't a big issue for me. However body building is about building the ideal body, and no doubt I'd like to address this. And what Rodja said, I think holds some weight, and I'd like to correct those issues for the future, of my health and body.

longBallLima
06-18-2013, 07:48 PM
I understand this completely, and this isn't a big issue for me. However body building is about building the ideal body, and no doubt I'd like to address this. And what Rodja said, I think holds some weight, and I'd like to correct those issues for the future, of my health and body.

grape, you got measurements? i understand you dont wanna post pics, but it might give a better insight on what we're talking about here. we have a biased view of our own body and tend to exaggerate a few things ("im too small, im too fat"). not saying it's the case with you

USN HM 350Z
06-18-2013, 08:24 PM
I don't think that A.R.T would hurt, but since you confirmed the neurological aspect I am willing to bet that it is at least partially related to that in someway. Once you switch neurologists, I would address this with him/her. My neurology office actually has a provider that does active release. She worked on my right hip/thigh area and the results were amazing to say the least. I have an injured lateral femoral cutaneous nerve.

Sperwer
06-18-2013, 09:31 PM
I don't think that A.R.T would hurt, but since you confirmed the neurological aspect I am willing to bet that it is at least partially related to that in someway. Once you switch neurologists, I would address this with him/her. My neurology office actually has a provider that does active release. She worked on my right hip/thigh area and the results were amazing to say the least. I have an injured lateral femoral cutaneous nerve.

My take is whether or not ART hurts depends on where and how it's being applied. I just got back from a regular ART session that is designed to break up the injury resultant adhesions in my rotator cuffs and all the related shoulder and thoracic muscles. It's bearable, but it is painful enough to get me squirming around and, occasionally, howling - much to the consternation of the chiropractor and the alarm of waiting patients. And I've frequently been told I have a very high level of tolerance for pain. The trade-off is that it's extremely effective; my results too have been nothing short of amazing

Grape Ape
06-18-2013, 10:33 PM
All I keep reading are about amazing results, and in short times. Didn't get around to calling today, but will tomorrow.

USN, how is this related to neurological issues?

Sperwer, is this painful when being performed only, or a pain that persist after treatment?

Sperwer
06-18-2013, 10:48 PM
Only while it's being done. Afterwards i feel great - tempted to go to the gym and try some oly jerks LOL.

By the evening i may be a little sore, but i rub in some Absorbine horse liniment gel and it's all good.

My left shoulder used to ache big time all the time. Now it feels normal and i'm close to full rom in only six weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sperwer
06-19-2013, 06:56 AM
Fyi; found on the net today:

Hi Kent,


In today's newsletter, I have a mobility exercise that we use with a lot of our clients and athletes, particularly those who demonstrate a common and very predictable asymmetry pattern. For some people, this simple drill can be a big "game-changer:"


--> Mobility Exercise of the Week: Preventing Excessive Asymmetry <--


This is one exercise demonstration I include in my "Understanding and Managing the Hip Adductors for Health and Performance" presentation in our new resource, Functional Stability Training of the Lower Body. This collaborative effort with Mike Reinold has been a big hit already, and is on sale at a big introductory discount for this week only. You can check it out here.

All the Best,

Eric Cressey


Cressey Training Systems LLC

577 Main St
Suite 310
Hudson, MA
01749
US







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sperwer
06-19-2013, 07:01 AM
Here's that link:

Mobility Exercise of the Week: Left-Stance Toe Touch | Eric Cressey | High Performance Training, Personal Training (http://www.ericcressey.com/mobility-exercise-of-the-week-left-stance-toe-touch)

Cressey and crew do a lot of interesting stuff, but if there is one thing i've learned, the hard way, it's better to have an expert actually walk you through this stuff - even the stuff that it might be possible to do on your own (which is only really useful if you don't already have issues or have already had serious hands-on work from a pro - and i don't mean xaviera Hollander ( dating myself)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 07:17 AM
grape, you got measurements? i understand you dont wanna post pics, but it might give a better insight on what we're talking about here. we have a biased view of our own body and tend to exaggerate a few things ("im too small, im too fat"). not saying it's the case with you
I'll see if I can get someone to take a pec pic for me as in certain flexed positions you can see the issue best. I just can't hold them and take the picture.

Here is a picture of me on day 1, and then the second is back in late October. A little high body fat, but you can see the issue slightly. This pic also doesn't show the issues outlined by Rodja, but they are prevelent.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71233&d=1354494946
Pic won't be up for too long.

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 07:24 AM
Here is another picture that is of me standing up straight. This is the one Rodja saw.

http://s7.postimg.org/m72vex5dn/IMAG0021.jpg
The issue is a little exaggerated in this pic. Think I was trying to correct the issue for the pic, as that day was the first time I notice it. Think I'm pushing my one shoulder forward a little more than I should. Think the mirror image through me off or however that works. Still gives a decent example.

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 07:29 AM
Double Post

burlyman30
06-19-2013, 07:56 AM
Oh wow... that last pic really shows an imbalance. If your shoulders are that far out of alignment, it fully explains the uneven pec development, as flexion points would be different with different delt positioning. In the first pics it is difficult to see the pec issues. In the last one, it is also hard to see because of the wildly different delt position.

olddawg
06-19-2013, 08:02 AM
yeah I think rodja was right on, if you superimpose a grid over that pic there is a big alignment issue. You should also be having strength issues on that weaker side not only because of the smaller muscles but the misaligned mechanics of your lever.

- - - Updated - - -

even looks as though your humerous in your left arm is longer than the right. this maybe could be the cause as you try to compensate for the longer bone on the one side???

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 08:09 AM
Oh wow... that last pic really shows an imbalance. If your shoulders are that far out of alignment, it fully explains the uneven pec development, as flexion points would be different with different delt positioning. In the first pics it is difficult to see the pec issues. In the last one, it is also hard to see because of the wildly different delt position.
This pic is a little less exaggerated.
http://s21.postimg.org/i81h84oyv/IMAG0027.jpg

Here is a back pic from the same day.
http://s21.postimg.org/7508lhx7r/IMAG0025.jpg

When I look in the mirror I do not notice any of this besides the smaller pec, abs, and the traps. Otherwise my shoulders look parallel and even.


Old Dawg: I do compensate for less strength on my right side, but only on Bench. My right bicep seems to be stronger, despite me being a lefty. I can 1 arm row more weight on my.right side as well.

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-19-2013, 08:43 AM
You aren't lying. Something, or a few things, are pulling pretty hard on that right side. You might want to try some intensive upper back and neck stretching and ROM excrecises. If you get those tendons back there to relax it should bring that shoulder into better alignment with the left side and improve the look for you.

*edit* Hopefully you aren't training the right side of your back heavier than the left?

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 08:48 AM
Yeah, I'm going to look into getting the professional opinion before I attemp anything on my own.

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-19-2013, 08:50 AM
Always a good idea, a good PT can fix something like this.

h2s
06-19-2013, 09:12 AM
Yeah, I'm going to look into getting the professional opinion before I attemp anything on my own.

Very rare to read these days, but definitely the best response.

Grape Ape
06-19-2013, 09:15 AM
Definitely not my approach to most things, but I wouldn't really know where to start with this.

Fat Bill Dwyer
06-19-2013, 09:39 AM
Definitely not my approach to most things, but I wouldn't really know where to start with this.

Your initial approach of posting topless photos of yourself on the internet for men to look at was a good one, and the one I encourage most people to pursue.

olddawg
06-19-2013, 02:53 PM
Very rare to read these days, but definitely the best response.

I thought that's why he was asking the forum:rolleyes:

USN HM 350Z
06-19-2013, 06:16 PM
I was thinking some sort of neuromuscular issue, but seeing the pictures I am doubting that now (not a doctor though lol) I think Rodja was spot on. Thats why I was asking all those questions and for pictures, not cause I like seeing almost naked men. I will leave that to Nate.

olddawg
06-19-2013, 07:10 PM
Thats why I was asking all those questions and for pictures,.
I think Nate turned me on to this (so to speak)
- YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NfWzBCXCk)

Grape Ape
06-20-2013, 07:26 AM
Have an appointment set for Monday morning.

Grape Ape
06-24-2013, 09:27 AM
Just got back from the doctors. It's actually a chiropractor who seems to be one of the only people who do ART in my area.

I'm very happy with him, and he said I'm a very mild case and didn't have much concern.

The therapy was definitely painfull, but very tolerable and I ha e a second appointment on Thursday.

Said it will take 2-4 sessions, and suggested I do some very light delt work in the gym to pull my shoulders back.
Most excited on how this will effect growth on my upcoming bulk.


EDIT: Besides Burly's squeeze technique, any suggestions for bringing my lagging pec up to pace?

h2s
06-25-2013, 01:23 PM
Glad it seems like you found proper therapy for the issue, should be a god send soon.

As for the question, I am not great at bringing up lagging parts, so I would be interested in the answers you receive as well.

Grape Ape
06-26-2013, 09:33 AM
Thanks. I really hope this helps on the development of my body. I know for a fact that atleast the pec symmetry will pull everything together. Soon as this therapy is done, I'm going to switch to DB's for a month. See what that does. Session number two is tomorrow.

I really just don't want this to effect my quality of life 30-40+ years down the road.

burlyman30
06-26-2013, 10:13 AM
Do you have access to a cable crossover.machine? You could add in a couple sets of flyes on just the lagging side. To be honest, though, it was your entire body alignment that struck me, not your pec development. They looked to be different shapes moreso than different sizes.

Sperwer
06-26-2013, 05:16 PM
Thanks. I really hope this helps on the development of my body. I know for a fact that atleast the pec symmetry will pull everything together. Soon as this therapy is done, I'm going to switch to DB's for a month. See what that does. Session number two is tomorrow.

I really just don't want this to effect my quality of life 30-40+ years down the road.

You are making a wise investment for the future.

As part of my treatment, I had some x-rays and MRIs taken of my spine and shoulders the other day. I also dug out some old ones form years ago for comparative purposes. The news wasn't good. Turns out, I have a species of spinal osteoarthritis which, as I understand it, means that my spine and the connections between it and the ribs, shoulders etc are gradually fusing together. Doc thinks I may be among the approx 10% of the North American population in which this is a more or less congenital condition but says even if that's the case my condition has been substantially worsened by too many parachute jumps, helicopter crashes, motorcycles accidents, etc.

The sobering thing is that, if I remember correctly, the first time I went to a chiro - maybe 20 years ago - I think he suggested the same thing; but in those days I still thought I was effectively bullet-proof. The good news is that the current doc thinks it can be controlled, even rolled back a bit, with daily stretching and flexibility exercises and occasional chiropractic manipulation. I could kick myself though for not having followed up 20 years ago. SO you're doing the right thing.

Grape Ape
06-27-2013, 11:19 AM
Today was session two or what should be 3-4 sessions.

Doc has told me to add 5+reps on machine shrugs, just on my left side to pull up my shoulder/trap. The ART on the right side should loosen and release my shoulder down a bit.

Grape Ape
07-08-2013, 01:19 PM
Missed my appointment last Wednesday, but got there this morning. Doctor is happy with progress and worked out a big knot in my right trap.

Next appointment is in 2 weeks, and then I should be done. Maybe once a month maintenance appointments from there on out.

Doc wants me to focus on pulling up my left side with the extra shrug reps.

Inner right pec tightness seems to be gone. Doc believes it was related to a spot on my spine that he cracked.