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Macdon1588
07-13-2013, 09:07 AM
Although I am sure stupid questions have been asked else where I thought it appropriate to get a thread going. I'll lead with my first stupid question:

So, I'm looking at vials of different esters of test, and being the paranoid guy I am, I wonder, how can one truly know the product is free of bacteria or other biological contamination? Is heating it in boiling water out of the question? At any rate, any info on the matter or a link containing as much would be great.

DJM
07-13-2013, 09:16 AM
jmo, unless tested which is pricey, and using ugl, you will never know.......best you can do is trust your guy

h2s
07-13-2013, 02:46 PM
jmo, unless tested which is pricey, and using ugl, you will never know.......best you can do is trust your guy

Very true.

Also good thread idea, it is very successful on PHF.

burlyman30
07-14-2013, 09:18 PM
Excellent stupid question. Lol. In case you aren't sure, I mean that in a good way. :D

weekend
07-14-2013, 10:02 PM
what about his boiling water idea?

burlyman30
07-14-2013, 10:15 PM
what about his boiling water idea?

Most medicines are to be kept at "under 86 degrees" per their label. My testosterone vial says "between 59 and 86 degrees". Not sure what heating it to 212 degrees would do... could reduce product effectiveness significantly.

WesleyInman
07-14-2013, 10:24 PM
Heat certainly is a sterilization process medically but one must wonder if extreme heat would degrade the solution itself...which I have heard theories exist to say is true, but not sure that any true experiment has ever been conducted to show how much heat would degrade a testosterone in oil base.

What if you ran it back through a Whatman?? Anyone ever try that?? Id agree stick with a trusted brand.

And even then, anytime you introduce any injection into your body you risk infection, even with a completely sterile solution.

Not a bad idea to keep some Bactrim (antibiotic) on hand for such a concern.

Macdon1588
07-15-2013, 09:46 AM
All good points. There's part of my mind that remembers something about viruses not be able to survive without a host for too long, but I believe bacteria are a different story... I wish now that i hadn't smoked so much pot before biology class in high school. I've travelled to enough exotic places to know I want no piece of the potential bacterial infections from some countries of the world.

I'm still a long ways off from a run, (as in still balancing out my diet to get the fat loss really moving) but my next stupid question is what is the best beginner cut cycle in your opinion. I'm thinking of trying a test-e 12 week run with a suicidal inhibitor on hand, followed up with clomid or torem pct. Would you all say that, given everything else is in line, that this is a worthwhile rookie run? Reading different logs, it seems like a fairly typical beginner run, but I ask, is it the best or is there something different or more that one ought to do?

Another question: I notice that not too many folks change their lifting other than adding weight. That seems to me like a waist of a perfectly good AA run. So I ask, how do you guys adjust your training while on?

burlyman30
07-15-2013, 11:44 AM
I'm still a long ways off from a run, (as in still balancing out my diet to get the fat loss really moving) but my next stupid question is what is the best beginner cut cycle in your opinion. I'm thinking of trying a test-e 12 week run with a suicidal inhibitor on hand, followed up with clomid or torem pct. Would you all say that, given everything else is in line, that this is a worthwhile rookie run? Reading different logs, it seems like a fairly typical beginner run, but I ask, is it the best or is there something different or more that one ought to do?

Another question: I notice that not too many folks change their lifting other than adding weight. That seems to me like a waist of a perfectly good AA run. So I ask, how do you guys adjust your training while on?

On the test e run, yes a 12 weeker is the best place to start, in my opinion. You could kick start it with 6 weeks of anavar if you want to see some effects while the test is still building up in your system.

On changing routines on cycle: I increase sets and variety of exercises. I probably add 30% or more, depending on the cycle. The greater number of sets allows me to choose a greater number of exercises and do each for 3-4 sets.

milehighguy
07-15-2013, 06:05 PM
I'm still a long ways off from a run, (as in still balancing out my diet to get the fat loss really moving) but my next stupid question is what is the best beginner cut cycle in your opinion. I'm thinking of trying a test-e 12 week run with a suicidal inhibitor on hand, followed up with clomid or torem pct. Would you all say that, given everything else is in line, that this is a worthwhile rookie run? Reading different logs, it seems like a fairly typical beginner run, but I ask, is it the best or is there something different or more that one ought to do?

Also, don't forget to check out some of the sticky threads under this section. DJM spent some time posting up some good beginner cycles.

Jelisej
08-17-2013, 05:10 PM
Could tren ace be injected subcutaneously? Like 2 smaller doses a day to keep levels stable and maybe reduce sides?

h2s
08-17-2013, 05:17 PM
Could tren ace be injected subcutaneously? Like 2 smaller doses a day to keep levels stable and maybe reduce sides?

Guys have done it. Hell guys have done transdermal tren and loved it. Even if less efficient, tren is awesome, even less dose will do work.

milehighguy
08-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Could tren ace be injected subcutaneously? Like 2 smaller doses a day to keep levels stable and maybe reduce sides?

I was just reading about this on another forum. If I remember correctly they were doing this to help reduce the chances of Tren cough.

Also talked about a sub Q injection taking slightly longer to kick in them IM injection.

h2s
08-19-2013, 08:19 AM
I was just reading about this on another forum. If I remember correctly they were doing this to help reduce the chances of Tren cough.

Also talked about a sub Q injection taking slightly longer to kick in them IM injection.

It is supposed to slow the release, but I have no idea how or why, so it would be bro-science until i hear someone explain it. As for tren cough, it is not that often for me, but when it hits it does suck.

milehighguy
08-19-2013, 08:55 AM
It is supposed to slow the release, but I have no idea how or why, so it would be bro-science until i hear someone explain it. As for tren cough, it is not that often for me, but when it hits it does suck.

Oh yea...I'm sure what I read was total bro-science. Nothing real to back it up. And it sounds a little scary IMO when you get hit with the cough. I guess if you know it may happen and mentally prep then there is not much you can do but stay calm.

h2s
08-19-2013, 10:18 AM
Oh yea...I'm sure what I read was total bro-science. Nothing real to back it up. And it sounds a little scary IMO when you get hit with the cough. I guess if you know it may happen and mentally prep then there is not much you can do but stay calm.

You can prepare for it, but not much works in terms of stopping it for me.

Basically here is how it comes:

I get this slightly odd taste in my mouth, as soon as I taste it, I start to feel my chest tighten.

From this point I have about 5 seconds of knowing the cough is coming on, and I kinda prepare for it as best as I can. Luckily, I have never once had it while injecting, always upon pulling out.

Jelisej
08-19-2013, 03:57 PM
It is supposed to slow the release, but I have no idea how or why, so it would be bro-science until i hear someone explain it. As for tren cough, it is not that often for me, but when it hits it does suck.

Well, muscles have more blood vessels around them so anything injected there will go faster in blood circulation on other hand when injecting sq obviously release is slower... Thing what I was conteplating is because tren. acetate half life is short so injecting sq. would have many benefits in theory- but whats difference in practice I have no clue apart of "broscience". Bigest problem I guess would be lumps (or how they are called?), but I speculate it would be avoided with very small doses- maybe 2X 0.25ml a day which would come to 350 mg a week of tren ace, which is quite decent amount. And sides would be less pronounced. Of course, thats just a theory.

milehighguy
08-19-2013, 04:09 PM
J-
You considering a run with Tren A?

Jelisej
08-19-2013, 05:34 PM
I'm thinking to take bit more aggressive aproach to hormonal optimisation, anyway- tren ace seems as possible good "antidote" for thyroid and even cortisol meds. Basically it can counter possible catabolism (including bone loss).
At the moment I'm just comtemplating, it's unlikely that I'll use it myself.

h2s
08-19-2013, 10:01 PM
Well, muscles have more blood vessels around them so anything injected there will go faster in blood circulation on other hand when injecting sq obviously release is slower... Thing what I was conteplating is because tren. acetate half life is short so injecting sq. would have many benefits in theory- but whats difference in practice I have no clue apart of "broscience". Bigest problem I guess would be lumps (or how they are called?), but I speculate it would be avoided with very small doses- maybe 2X 0.25ml a day which would come to 350 mg a week of tren ace, which is quite decent amount. And sides would be less pronounced. Of course, thats just a theory.

I wasn't implying you were doing it on broscience principles, rather, the average person who repeats it with no idea why it would be different. Your point was previously unconsidered by me, but provides an obvious answer. As for the lumps, I feel there is no way around it. Even with water based subq injections, I get a lump, and they are worse the leaner I am. Considering those can stick around a bit, i would imagine an oil based injection would be even worse. Potentially the smaller frequent doses as you suggest would be able to combat it. If you go for it, I am very interested in how it works out.

Macdon1588
08-20-2013, 12:38 AM
So, Tren Ace seems pretty popular. Are guys just making it themselves or using labs? Seems like a fairly straight forward brew. I like the idea of making my shit as I can guarantee that it's clean.

weekend
08-20-2013, 12:39 AM
guys are mostly using labs, i would assume...

h2s
08-20-2013, 11:31 PM
Yep labs, but these days I am very picky in who I will use. When you hit a good chef you realize what shit you have used before.

Jelisej
08-24-2013, 05:20 PM
http://ipac.kacst.edu.sa/eDoc/2006/161440_1.pdf

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy.

Patients and Methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.

Macdon1588
08-25-2013, 09:55 PM
So, could a guy run 12 weeks of test e without HCG provided his pct was strong enough?

burlyman30
08-26-2013, 07:37 AM
So, could a guy run 12 weeks of test e without HCG provided his pct was strong enough?

Yep, but it just makes recovery slower/harder and the possibility of a lower natural T level after the cycle is possible if some damage is done to the leydig cells during the cycle.

Macdon1588
08-26-2013, 11:35 AM
http://ipac.kacst.edu.sa/eDoc/2006/161440_1.pdf

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy.

Patients and Methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.

So this seems to indicate sc injections are better. I'd like to see a log of this. Or hell. When I've shed enough fat, I'll run it like this. Just kinda curious what a run would look like doing this.

milehighguy
08-26-2013, 12:35 PM
So this seems to indicate sc injections are better. I'd like to see a log of this. Or hell. When I've shed enough fat, I'll run it like this. Just kinda curious what a run would look like doing this.

Would love to see such a log!

burlyman30
08-26-2013, 12:56 PM
So this seems to indicate sc injections are better. I'd like to see a log of this. Or hell. When I've shed enough fat, I'll run it like this. Just kinda curious what a run would look like doing this.


Would love to see such a log!

I've been doing my TRT with SC from the beginning. It's all in my TRT log. Smooth as silk, seems to slow the release by about an extra day. I do 2x a week for rock steady levels.

milehighguy
08-26-2013, 01:32 PM
I've been doing my TRT with SC from the beginning. It's all in my TRT log. Smooth as silk, seems to slow the release by about an extra day. I do 2x a week for rock steady levels.

Good to know! I have some catch up reading to do.

burlyman30
08-26-2013, 01:52 PM
Good to know! I have some catch up reading to do.

Lots and lots in that thread, so if you don't have time to read through it to get answers you need, then feel free to ask it here or pm me.

Jelisej
08-26-2013, 04:21 PM
So, could a guy run 12 weeks of test e without HCG provided his pct was strong enough?

It would not be wise to do so. As Burly said- its questinablr wheter Leydig cells would ever recover properly, as we age our Leydig cells deteriorate, and as result our testicles are losing functionality which results in lower testosterone levels and few others.

What is a strong PCT? All PCT-s are more less same. For example if someone is using tamoxifene citrate (and little bit aromasin), dosage would be same for any kind of cycle- 10 mg a day (or 20 mg eod if someone prefers)- saturation dose for tamoxifene is at less than 10 mg so more than that will not yield any better results, probably more sides.

milehighguy
08-26-2013, 05:34 PM
Lots and lots in that thread, so if you don't have time to read through it to get answers you need, then feel free to ask it here or pm me.

So besides the slight delay in effect is there any other major differences between SubQ and IM? I believe you have done both so I thought you could tell.

burlyman30
08-26-2013, 06:35 PM
So besides the slight delay in effect is there any other major differences between SubQ and IM? I believe you have done both so I thought you could tell.

Slower release, less veins to hit, no muscle soreness after an injection.

However, I think if someone plans to inject 2-3 CCs then IM is the way to go, otherwise you will have a sizable lump sticking out from the injection site.

milehighguy
08-26-2013, 09:27 PM
Slower release, less veins to hit, no muscle soreness after an injection.

Your preferred method these days? At least for the TRT level dose...

burlyman30
08-26-2013, 10:17 PM
Your preferred method these days? At least for the TRT level dose...

Twice a week, every week. Works great for me. When I add in other compounds, I just keep it to 1.5 cc or less per inject.

From my competitive days, I had so much scar tissue in my glutes from ED or EOD injections (precontest) and there were hard nodules in my glutes for over 10 years. A repeat of that is not really appealing to me.

Maybe it won't work as well for everyone, but I've had nothing but good results with SC injections.

burlyman30
08-28-2013, 11:28 PM
Could tren ace be injected subcutaneously? Like 2 smaller doses a day to keep levels stable and maybe reduce sides?


Guys have done it. Hell guys have done transdermal tren and loved it. Even if less efficient, tren is awesome, even less dose will do work.

Missed these comments before... that's what happens when you read forums and scroll down while driving. :o

I may be the only guy currently on this forum who has done tren TD, SC, and IM.

TD - works, but the absorption rate does lower the overall dosage. I'd say it's the least desirable of the three for that reason, but would certainly work for someone who is afraid of pins or can't safely hide pins from others in the house.

IM - most direct route, hardest hitting after dosing. Tren cough.

SC - slows initial absorption after dosing. May extend effectiveness for an additional day because of the slower release. I've never heard of tren cough from SC injections.

J, you mentioned 2 smaller doses per day, but one a day with SC injection would be sufficient for rock steady levels. Of course, one could also change to a enanthate ester and inject 2x a week for rock steady levels, too.

Sperwer
08-28-2013, 11:57 PM
Missed these comments before... that's what happens when you read forums and scroll down while driving. :o

I may be the only guy currently on this forum who has done tren TD, SC, and IM.

TD - works, but the absorption rate does lower the overall dosage. I'd say it's the least desirable of the three for that reason, but would certainly work for someone who is afraid of pins or can't safely hide pins from others in the house.

IM - most direct route, hardest hitting after dosing. Tren cough.

SC - slows initial absorption after dosing. May extend effectiveness for an additional day because of the slower release. I've never heard of tren cough from SC injections.

J, you mentioned 2 smaller doses per day, but one a day with SC injection would be sufficient for rock steady levels. Of course, one could also change to a enanthate ester and inject 2x a week for rock steady levels, too.

Although I've been doing Tren Hex for awhile, I've been wondering about tren cough, since I never experienced it. Recently, though, my parabolan stash ran out and the re-up didn't arrive. Actually, it did arrive but was seized and returned by customs because, although it was a stealth pack, my go-between also ordered some other tablet stuff and the supplier shipped them together. Fortunately, another pkg of just stealth material did arrive, so my source hooked me up with a couple of vials to Tren A to tide me over. Did the first inject yesterday, and discovered what tren cough is. Fortunately, I had just gotten the pin out when it hit, but it still wasn't pleasant, even if tolerable. The shot itself also hurt more than parabolan.

I'll also mention that, for the inconvenience, the source also gave me a couple vials of Nandrolone (Deca). Any suggestions on what I should do with it?

nate3993
08-29-2013, 12:07 AM
Wow. Tren cough really hits that quick huh. What was your dose? And as to the deca....




Def inject it. I know that much ;)

Sperwer
08-29-2013, 12:17 AM
Wow. Tren cough really hits that quick huh. What was your dose? And as to the deca....




Def inject it. I know that much ;)

:p

The tren was a buck and a half, and took awhile; the oil seemed thicker than that of the parabolan. And I was lucky to get the pin out when I did, because having managed to get a little oil on the barrel when I was clearing the pin, it was slip sliding around in my fist by the end.

milehighguy
08-29-2013, 09:05 AM
I agree with Nate! Inject the DECA for sure...

;)

Sperwer
08-30-2013, 01:17 AM
Had a second round of Tren A @ 150 today; no cough, but my hip was mighty sore for about 30 minutes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Macdon1588
09-23-2013, 02:03 PM
Let's just say you really wanted to do a drastic cut. Let's say its the sort of cut you only want to once in a blue moon. Would 500mg of test cyp weekly for twelve weeks aid that endeavor provided every thing else was spot on? I'm thinking of doing a cut using test because, for one, it's my virgin journey into the dark side and because, I like where I'm at lifting wise.

burlyman30
09-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Let's just say you really wanted to do a drastic cut. Let's say its the sort of cut you only want to once in a blue moon. Would 500mg of test cyp weekly for twelve weeks aid that endeavor provided every thing else was spot on? I'm thinking of doing a cut using test because, for one, it's my virgin journey into the dark side and because, I like where I'm at lifting wise.

Provided you took proper measures to keep estrogen at bay, then yes, it would help. It's not the ideal drug to depend on while cutting, IMO, but it'll still work.

Macdon1588
09-23-2013, 02:54 PM
Provided you took proper measures to keep estrogen at bay, then yes, it would help. It's not the ideal drug to depend on while cutting, IMO, but it'll still work.

Well, I know there are things out there that are better suited like tren, but I'm so rookie I figured I'd ought to stay with test. I was guessing that Exemestane would be sufficient for estrogen concerns. My understanding was that I should just have it on hand in case I need it. Should I just take it from the get go then? I keep mulling over the idea of adding var, but there's a lot of debate over whether or not it's worth the money.

burlyman30
09-24-2013, 05:48 AM
Well, I know there are things out there that are better suited like tren, but I'm so rookie I figured I'd ought to stay with test. I was guessing that Exemestane would be sufficient for estrogen concerns. My understanding was that I should just have it on hand in case I need it. Should I just take it from the get go then? I keep mulling over the idea of adding var, but there's a lot of debate over whether or not it's worth the money.
I would definitely start the exem from the beginning.

olddawg
09-24-2013, 06:31 AM
^^^this, tren without an AI is a trip to Victoria Secret's. Even exem is on the weaker side foruse with tren

Macdon1588
09-24-2013, 11:28 AM
^^^this, tren without an AI is a trip to Victoria Secret's. Even exem is on the weaker side foruse with tren

Agreed... But I was going to do test cyp;-) not tren.

olddawg
09-24-2013, 12:26 PM
Agreed... But I was going to do test cyp;-) not tren.

aoooops, gatting old. thanks for the catch. for me on 750mg e a week, 12.5 exem and i'm still a little bloaty, if I do 25 then it's back to normal.

Macdon1588
10-02-2013, 12:10 AM
I've managed to stump myself on AI's for this run of mine. So if you were to run test cyp at 500 which AI would be best?

BBG
10-02-2013, 12:15 PM
I've managed to stump myself on AI's for this run of mine. So if you were to run test cyp at 500 which AI would be best?


It depends on how test treats you. If you're prone to estrogen sides, I'd say letro. If not, keep some exemestane on hand as its the less harsh option if you don't need the power of letro.

burlyman30
10-02-2013, 01:20 PM
You are more than likely going to be fine with exemestane and you can just increase the dose if you need more of a countermeasure. Since your goal is fat loss, I'd suggest keeping estro on the lower side of normal, and a good starting point is 25mg/day.

weekend
10-02-2013, 03:02 PM
For some reason I got joint pain on aromasin but not letro.. Can different AIs effect people differently?

burlyman30
10-02-2013, 03:34 PM
For some reason I got joint pain on aromasin but not letro.. Can different AIs effect people differently?

Your body may just respond really well to the estro lowering characteristics of aromasin.

Jelisej
10-02-2013, 04:14 PM
You are more than likely going to be fine with exemestane and you can just increase the dose if you need more of a countermeasure. Since your goal is fat loss, I'd suggest keeping estro on the lower side of normal, and a good starting point is 25mg/day.

I absolutely agree with first part, not so sure on second part- 25 mg a day seems a lot, but there are so many variations in potency.
Anyway, estrogen should be kept from going high, but on cycle is better slightly higher than lower- only at the end it should be lowered, which is only short period of time- otherwise person will start losing bone mass, and that is very serious thing- for example usualy it takes over a year on steroids for bone density to start increasing and on other hand in couple of weeks ther could be significant bone loss.

Also- during PCT little dose of AI is good thing, but very little and one of the reasons why AI is used with clomid/nolva is to keep E2 at bay, but more so it is to prevent some other possible sides like to prevent hypercoagulation.

On of the reasons why vitamin D must be used is to protect bones, it does increase testosterone as well.

burlyman30
10-02-2013, 04:35 PM
I absolutely agree with first part, not so sure on second part- 25 mg a day seems a lot, but there are so many variations in potency.
Anyway, estrogen should be kept from going high, but on cycle is better slightly higher than lower- only at the end it should be lowered, which is only short period of time- otherwise person will start losing bone mass, and that is very serious thing- for example usualy it takes over a year on steroids for bone density to start increasing and on other hand in couple of weeks ther could be significant bone loss.

Also- during PCT little dose of AI is good thing, but very little and one of the reasons why AI is used with clomid/nolva is to keep E2 at bay, but more so it is to prevent some other possible sides like to prevent hypercoagulation.

On of the reasons why vitamin D must be used is to protect bones, it does increase testosterone as well.

You are right... the dosage could be to high... or maybe not. Lots of factors involved, like how much will an individual aromatize estrogen on 500mg Test/WK, starting body fat level, individual sensitivity. I personally cant do 100mg test/WK without sending estradiol levels into the stratosphere.

hossam
10-09-2013, 12:01 AM
i have a small question, i am about to finish a Cidoteston (Testosterone Enanthate) 6 weeks cycle
and i have the Nolvadex and Clomaid in hand, but i couldn't get the HCG, any suggestions for a replacement?

BBG
10-09-2013, 12:03 AM
i have a small question, i am about to finish a Cidoteston (Testosterone Enanthate) 6 weeks cycle
and i have the Nolvadex and Clomaid in hand, but i couldn't get the HCG, any suggestions for a replacement?

Usually HCG would be run during the cycle. Running clomid, nolva or a combination of the two will work without the HCG. DAA would be a good addition to PCT if you're looking for one.

Also, 6 weeks on Test E is a bit short.

hossam
10-09-2013, 12:09 AM
Usually HCG would be run during the cycle. Running clomid, nolva or a combination of the two will work without the HCG. DAA would be a good addition to PCT if you're looking for one.

Also, 6 weeks on Test E is a bit short.

the cycle were supposed to be more than that but sadly few ampols got broken! and i couldn't get more of Cidotestone
i am thinking about taking Testolic (propenate) after the Enanthate, how many and for how long?
thanks for the quick reply man :)

burlyman30
10-09-2013, 12:16 AM
Don't worry about HCG at this point. Use a SERM instead. Next time use HCG while on cycle( and SERM afterwards).

hossam
10-09-2013, 12:22 AM
Don't worry about HCG at this point. Use a SERM instead. Next time use HCG while on cycle( and SERM afterwards).

do you have a reliable source of HCG i could buy from?
Thanks Burly

burlyman30
10-09-2013, 07:10 AM
do you have a reliable source of HCG i could buy from?
Thanks Burly

Source checking of Rx drugs isn't allowed here. However, you may want to look at research chemicals. ;-) Our new site sponsor is GTG. Evolved Research Supply (http://WWW.evolvedrs.com)