Bonedaddy Is Pulled To The Darkside

[BoneDaddy]

After much studying and reading, I've finally gave the finger and 'F You" to prohormones and taking the leap into the deep end. So, here I am, laying my cycle out for your opinions, for better or worse, and guidance. Let's go.....

Week 1-14 Test E @ 500mg/week (2pins, 250mg each, Mondays and Thursdays)
Week 1-4 Dbol @ 40mgs (split throughout the day, with a dose 40minutes-hour before workout)
Week 1-14 Exemestane (Skyward!!) 12.5 EOD
week 1-14 HCG @ 500iu/week (250iu, 2 times a week, probably Monday and Thursday as well)

2 weeks before through week Cycle will be various support supps for BP, liver, etc, etc....

PCT will be:

Torem(Skyward!!) 120/90/60/30 (open for debate)
Osta(Skyward) 10mgs I'm sure this will spark some debate as well, but from all I've seen, this dose is low enough to help but not suppress. Again....open for debate!

I'm going to eat like a sad horse that eats it's feelings while trying to keep it clean as I can. We are going into fall/winter, so an all out bulk is in order, imo. I'm looking at my 1st pin(EVER!!!) in a week or perhaps 2. I just want to get this up and out there so I will be ready to go, no doubt. I'm fucking ready to do this!

[milehighguy]

Cycle looks solid to me. I will sit back on the PCT and see what everyone says. I too am dropping the whole pro hormone thing so I was glad to see this. Would also be down to follow as you progress.

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[BoneDaddy]

Thanks Milehigh! Should I be on the lookout for your deep end dive?!

[Jelisej]

I would suggest you to do test e injections- Monday morning and thursday night; so its more even.
HCG should be 3X 250 IU, in my opinion.
As for pct, I dont know much about torem- but it looks like overkill compare it mg for mg with other two serms; for example tamoxifen 10 mg a day is more than enough, as for clomid 25 mg a day or 50 eod is more than enough. Actually saturation dose for tamoxifen is somewhere between 5 - 10 mg, so more than that will not work better really.
I dont like idea of having osta in pct.

Good luck!

[milehighguy]

Should I be on the lookout for your deep end dive?!

Yea for sure. Your a little ahead of me at this point but a fall run is in order!

[BoneDaddy]

I would suggest you to do test e injections- Monday morning and thursday night; so its more even.
HCG should be 3X 250 IU, in my opinion.
As for pct, I dont know much about torem- but it looks like overkill; for example tamoxifen 10 mg a day is more than enough, as for clomid 25 mg a day or 50 eod is more than enough. Actually saturation dose for tamoxifen is somewhere between 5 - 10 mg, so more than that will not work better really.

Good luck!

I understand totally what you mean about the morning/night pins. I've read that a number of times, and I'm considering it, depending on some factors here.

As far as PCT, I also have Clomid on hand, so it's definitely an option. I would rather stay away from nolva.

- - - Updated - - -


Yea for sure. Your a little ahead of me at this point but a fall run is in order! I'll definitely follow!

[longBallLima]

I understand totally what you mean about the morning/night pins. I've read that a number of times, and I'm considering it, depending on some factors here.

As far as PCT, I also have Clomid on hand, so it's definitely an option. I would rather stay away from nolva.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll definitely follow!

honestly, i'm always afraid of Torem being bunk, and that's why i decided to go with clomid instead.

good luck with the run, man!

[Eden]

Doses look good for first run. Also I prefer Mon, Wed, Fri for jabs. But you should be fine with your current days. I don't know much about pct. Clean diet should be good. Depending your body may reaction differently to food now that you're on the new compounds. Good luck man.

[olddawg]

so you're just coming off, waiting 2-3 weeks and then pct'ing? thought of an oral for that 3 weeks?

[BoneDaddy]

honestly, i'm always afraid of Torem being bunk, and that's why i decided to go with clomid instead.

good luck with the run, man!

For some reason, I have faith in Skyward. In past runs, the Torem has shown it's effects in a few days. If this doesn't, then I'll jump over to the Clomid on hand.


Doses look good for first run. Also I prefer Mon, Wed, Fri for jabs. But you should be fine with your current days. I don't know much about pct. Clean diet should be good. Depending your body may reaction differently to food now that you're on the new compounds. Good luck man.

Thanks man! Seeing as how I've never pinned before, Imma stick to the 2 jabs a week plan for now. Hoping the nervousness is over-hyped!


so you're just coming off, waiting 2-3 weeks and then pct'ing? thought of an oral for that 3 weeks?

Yeah, to give the Test E time to clear....or not? lol What did you have in mind? What oral would I use at the end of a Test Cycle until it clears out?

[Cobalt]

Yeah, to give the Test E time to clear....or not? lol What did you have in mind? What oral would I use at the end of a Test Cycle until it clears out?

Anavar

Good to see another one coming to the dark side... we have cookies.

[nate3993]

cycle looks good. torem is good. skyward was always legit. sad they could never stay open for more than a dam month, but they are gtg. you have no worries. if u could, i'd stretch out pct and throw in a AI. erase is good. for me, i'd never have a sarm in my pct. but that's because for me, it shut me down hard within a couple weeks. or maybe it didn't shut me down, but it sure as hell killed my libido.

[O_RYAN_007]

I used var for 8 total weeks at the end of my run at 50mg, 3 of which overlapped while the test cleared at the end. Kept strength up and dry.

[olddawg]

something to keep strength up while your body's test dwindles down to zero lol, if you have more dbol i'd just finish that off, tbol, var, or even a ph will work

[Sperwer]

<br>
<br>
Thanks man! Seeing as how I've never pinned before, Imma stick to the 2 jabs a week plan for now. Hoping the nervousness is over-hyped!<br>
<br>

Welcome to the Dark Side

839

As far as pinning is concerned, rest easy.

I was a bit apprehensive too when I first had a go in the Spring, and most of what I had read only served to compound the anxiety.

In the event, though, I found it pretty unremarkable. Getting the pin through the outer layer of epidermis is the only dodgy part; unsurprisingly, it feels like the sting from a subQ. I went very slowly, and barely felt it. And once through the epidermis, I just felt it sliding in the tissue - it obviously felt like a foreign object there, but it was a very smooth feeling, not the least bit painful. The persistent stinging from SubQ is worse, imo. The deposition in deeper tissue also is significantly less irritating than subQ.

[BoneDaddy]

Anavar

Good to see another one coming to the dark side... we have cookies.

This motherfucker looooves cookies.....


cycle looks good. torem is good. skyward was always legit. sad they could never stay open for more than a dam month, but they are gtg. you have no worries. if u could, i'd stretch out pct and throw in a AI. erase is good. for me, i'd never have a sarm in my pct. but that's because for me, it shut me down hard within a couple weeks. or maybe it didn't shut me down, but it sure as hell killed my libido.

I didn't put the 'normal' supps in the PCt and what-not. I have 2 bottles of Erase, Anabeta, DAA and Testopro that will likely go into PCT.


I used var for 8 total weeks at the end of my run at 50mg, 3 of which overlapped while the test cleared at the end. Kept strength up and dry.

You rich? lol See my comments below to OD


something to keep strength up while your body's test dwindles down to zero lol, if you have more dbol i'd just finish that off, tbol, var, or even a ph will work

I have 2 cycles worth of Dbol. I hadn't even thought of running it at the end...........

[Sperwer]

Anavar

Good to see another one coming to the dark side... we have cookies.

840

[BoneDaddy]

Welcome to the Dark Side

839

As far as pinning is concerned, rest easy.

I was a bit apprehensive too when I first had a go in the Spring, and most of what I had read only served to compound the anxiety.

In the event, though, I found it pretty unremarkable. Getting the pin through the outer layer of epidermis is the only dodgy part; unsurprisingly, it feels like the sting from a subQ. I went very slowly, and barely felt it. And once through the epidermis, I just felt it sliding in the tissue - it obviously felt like a foreign object there, but it was a very smooth feeling, not the least bit painful. The persistent stinging from SubQ is worse, imo. The deposition in deeper tissue also is significantly less irritating than subQ.

Grrrreeeeaaaatttt........can't wait for those HCG pins!

I don't see myself going slowly though, Imma stab that shit like it cheated on me.......you know,....once I get the nerve to do the motion. lol

[Eden]

I couldn't get the nerve to dart myself. Any time a nurse has done it it was not pleasant. However slowly gliding them in is almost not even noticeable. Unless you hit a nerve. Which my quads seem to be full of.

[BoneDaddy]

I couldn't get the nerve to dart myself. Any time a nurse has done it it was not pleasant. However slowly gliding them in is almost not even noticeable. Unless you hit a nerve. Which my quads seem to be full of.

I'm gonna stick to delts for a bit. Once i start quads, I'm going to ice them per DJM's suggestions.

Speaking of DJM, where is that bitch?!

[Cobalt]

You pansies.

I'll hit my quads with 1 1/2" pins and tris/delts with 1" pins.

Dart mode all the way, keeps it fast and easy.

[Eden]

1" quads
Slin pin delts

I just don't wanna slam a needle in me haha.

[burlyman30]

My thoughts on the cycle...

Overall, a well thought out plan. Someone has been doing their homework, so props to you BD.

Things I'd change:

Up your AI. 12.5 ED, IMO, and double it during the 4 weeks of dbol.

Osta at 5mg max. Studies showed no suppression at 1-3 mg, but above that, all bets are off. It IS anabolic at only 1mg/day, though.

[weekend]

Fuck osta... Also just run exemestane in PCT not erase.

I would definitely insert the needle at a medium speed. Darting hurts and usually if you go semi slow you can tell if you're going to hit a nerve before you actually do. Darting at a nerve guarantees that pain will happen.

Also just my opinion but since dbol converts to estro I would be hesitant to run it pre-pct. probably try var or if you don't want to do Orals just run prop at the end! Or mast haha, one vial would be good

[WesleyInman]

Good luck man..Yeah the PCT and HCG the entire time are the only things that stood out to me. What is the reason behind running HCG the entire time?

[DJM]

i run hcg whole time, i like my sack full
ill second the dbol at the end too............if you have it why not
id air on the side of caution darting pins, lide them in, theyll do the job,much like spewer said

[Grape Ape]

I want to pin test so bad...I should not be in this thread.



Good luck!

[weekend]

^why not?!

[Grape Ape]

I'm afraid of shutdown plain and simple. I did some unwise cycling before I really even knew what a PH was and it was hard to come back from that.

[weekend]

Well, I haven't used it but... From everything I've read you could try a primo only cycle for like 6-8 weeks. Supposedly doesn't cause full shutdown and has a very easy recovery! And permanent gains!

I may try it myself after my next cycle.

[burlyman30]

Well, I haven't used it but... From everything I've read you could try a primo only cycle for like 6-8 weeks. Supposedly doesn't cause full shutdown and has a very easy recovery! And permanent gains!

I may try it myself after my next cycle.

Weekend-- Primo is super slow grow.... quality gains, just slow. I wouldn't use it for anything less than 16 weeks. Just my .02. And when it takes 800 mg/ wk to do what 100 mg/ week of tren will do... the cost:benefit ratio needs to be considered.

GrapeApe-- On the matter of being concerned with shutdown.. use hcg on cycle regardless of cycle length for extra insurance in your post cycle recovery.

[BoneDaddy]

My thoughts on the cycle...

Overall, a well thought out plan. Someone has been doing their homework, so props to you BD.

Things I'd change:

Up your AI. 12.5 ED, IMO, and double it during the 4 weeks of dbol.

Osta at 5mg max. Studies showed no suppression at 1-3 mg, but above that, all bets are off. It IS anabolic at only 1mg/day, though.

Thanks for the props! I'll do more homework on the Osta for sure. Damn, that's a lot of AI. So you'd do 25 ED for the 1st 4 weeks, then 12.5 ED, then back up to 25 ED while I'm back on Dbol waiting for test to clear? I'm gonna need more AI....lol


Good luck man..Yeah the PCT and HCG the entire time are the only things that stood out to me. What is the reason behind running HCG the entire time?

What stuck out about the PCT? HCG the whole way seems to be the new norm. More insurance on recovery and the sack stays nice and full. I have read a little here and there about tolerance, but it's sparse......


i run hcg whole time, i like my sack full
ill second the dbol at the end too............if you have it why not
id air on the side of caution darting pins, lide them in, theyll do the job,much like spewer said

Yeah, I wasn't really going to stab per se, more like jab at 1st then slide/push. I'll stop being a pussy one day. Maybe.


I want to pin test so bad...I should not be in this thread.



Good luck!

Thanks Grape! That was me for the last 6 months!


Fuck osta... Also just run exemestane in PCT not erase.

I would definitely insert the needle at a medium speed. Darting hurts and usually if you go semi slow you can tell if you're going to hit a nerve before you actually do. Darting at a nerve guarantees that pain will happen.

Also just my opinion but since dbol converts to estro I would be hesitant to run it pre-pct. probably try var or if you don't want to do Orals just run prop at the end! Or mast haha, one vial would be good


When you say pre-pct, you mean at the end while test clears?

[weekend]

Yeah, because I feel like dbol will induce a much deeper suppression than var or mast or any DHT's... Androhard even.

Theoretically I think recovery could begin if you're only taking a DHT which is what you'd wanna do for the end, then drop it last and recovery comes quick and easy. Just a thought though, everyone else who said do the dbol is more experienced than I.

But I still don't see why I would wanna gain a bunch more water right before PCT. or does enough AI prevent the water gain from dbol?

[Jelisej]

HCG should be all the way through cycle and ceased only 2-3 days before pct, possible danger from HCG is some desensitation- but thats where clomid/nolva step in.
As for AI dosing, thats difficult as it depends from person to person, some people need very little, almost nothing, some people need lot.
In pct I would not use anything that can affect hormones, sometimes peole do get away with bit of DHT sometimes not, why risk?

[BoneDaddy]

Yeah, because I feel like dbol will induce a much deeper suppression than var or mast or any DHT's... Androhard even.

Theoretically I think recovery could begin if you're only taking a DHT which is what you'd wanna do for the end, then drop it last and recovery comes quick and easy. Just a thought though, everyone else who said do the dbol is more experienced than I.

But I still don't see why I would wanna gain a bunch more water right before PCT. or does enough AI prevent the water gain from dbol?

I was of the mindset that an AI would help with the water. Summer is almost over, I'm not too terribly concerned with some extra water weight temporarily. My wife might tho....she has to see me naked lol Besides, if I'm suppressed, I'm suppressed.


HCG should be all the way through cycle and ceased only 2-3 days before pct, possible danger from HCG is some desensitation- but thats where clomid/nolva step in.
As for AI dosing, thats difficult as it depends from person to person, some people need very little, almost nothing, some people need lot.
In pct I would not use anything that can affect hormones, sometimes peole do get away with bit of DHT sometimes not, why risk?

Thanks for that J! The 3 days before pct will be my last hcg pin.

[Eden]

My wife keeps whining because she wants me to gain more fat because she likes chubby kinda guys. Lol apparently I feel like "a rock".

She was disappointed when I said I was going to keep slowly losing fat till I started seeing abs. She's usually happy about bulk season because I get kinda fat.

I don't know how much aromasin you need. I use 10mg ED, but then again I'm also taking 300mg mast.

I'm curious what are the effects of hcg on estrogen conversion? Does hcg keep the body producing natural test at the same level plus the exogenous test or is it a lower percentage?

[milehighguy]

2 things to also consider as part of your PCT. Vitamin C at 2-3 grams a day will help with cortisol. I'm not sure if this is needed if you run the Osta but even a gram a day will also have other benefits.

2nd piece would be creatine. Cheap and easy... just how I like my chicks!
;)

[O_RYAN_007]

Keep estro in check and you keep gyno away. I think you may want to do 25mg exem ed, but as others said, you may not need so much, but you may actually need more. Please get pre, mid, and post bloods to you know how to gauge the ai and everything else. This is how I figured out where my ai dosing needed to be.

[O_RYAN_007]

My wife keeps whining because she wants me to gain more fat because she likes chubby kinda guys. Lol apparently I feel like "a rock".

She was disappointed when I said I was going to keep slowly losing fat till I started seeing abs. She's usually happy about bulk season because I get kinda fat.

I don't know how much aromasin you need. I use 10mg ED, but then again I'm also taking 300mg mast.

I'm curious what are the effects of hcg on estrogen conversion? Does hcg keep the body producing natural test at the same level plus the exogenous test or is it a lower percentage?

This is the complete opposite of what my wife likes. She always saying, I wish you were still flaco (skinny) like when I met you. Maybe with more muscle, though. I hate when she says that crap! I will then turn around and say, I'd like you with a six pack and a bigger ass. Mind you, when flexed, I have a complete six pack.

[BoneDaddy]

2 things to also consider as part of your PCT. Vitamin C at 2-3 grams a day will help with cortisol. I'm not sure if this is needed if you run the Osta but even a gram a day will also have other benefits.

2nd piece would be creatine. Cheap and easy... just how I like my chicks!
;)


Snatching some Vit C today. I have a shit ton of creatine, particularly Con-Cret. Love that shit.



Keep estro in check and you keep gyno away. I think you may want to do 25mg exem ed, but as others said, you may not need so much, but you may actually need more. Please get pre, mid, and post bloods to you know how to gauge the ai and everything else. This is how I figured out where my ai dosing needed to be.

I'm definitely going to grab some more AI, may roll the dice and try to grab some pharma grade. Bloods....excellent idea. I need to research where and how much yadda yadda yadda....


This is the complete opposite of what my wife likes. She always saying, I wish you were still flaco (skinny) like when I met you. Maybe with more muscle, though. I hate when she says that crap! I will then turn around and say, I'd like you with a six pack and a bigger ass. Mind you, when flexed, I have a complete six pack.

You have a Latina, eh?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, where do you guys stand on 50mg of T3 on cycle? In theory, the metabolism boost will help with the anabolic environment, no?

[O_RYAN_007]

Yup, I sure do. :)

[BoneDaddy]

Yup, I sure do. :)

Bastard! lol I've had every damn ethnicity I can think of, except for a Latina......they're sexy as fawk.........

[nate3993]

Caution on the Vit c. I was reading how that's one of the vitamins that's derived from GMO ingredients quite often.

[burlyman30]

BD... privatemdlabs... get the female hormone panel, as it tests most everything we care about.

[burlyman30]

Bastard! lol I've had every damn ethnicity I can think of, except for a Latina......they're sexy as fawk.........

It's always the ones you haven't had that you want the most.

[BoneDaddy]

Caution on the Vit c. I was reading how that's one of the vitamins that's derived from GMO ingredients quite often.
Good heads up, Nate.


BD... privatemdlabs... get the female hormone panel, as it tests most everything we care about.

Awesome Burly, much appreciated!



It's always the ones you haven't had that you want the most.

True....the forbidden fruit syndrome. Actually, that applies to 90% of the women I see.......lol

[longBallLima]

bd use coupon code gsmtr45f on private md for something like 15% discount

[burlyman30]

Good heads up, Nate.



Awesome Burly, much appreciated!




True....the forbidden fruit syndrome. Actually, that applies to 90% of the women I see.......lol

Test is going to amplify that. Good luck.

[BoneDaddy]

bd use coupon code gsmtr45f on private md for something like 15% discount

Thanks Lima, that's awesome.


Test is going to amplify that. Good luck.

Great, this is going to be a struggle! lol

So, no thoughts on T3?

[weekend]

Your thyroid isn't worth messing with IMO.

What's your bodyfat at?

[burlyman30]

Your thyroid isn't worth messing with IMO.


x2. decide if you are bulking or cutting, and both happen in the kitchen. A cycle with dbol and T3 makes no sense.

[BoneDaddy]

Duly noted on the T3. Was just talking outloud. It's not for cutting so much as it is just for the increased metabolism. one less thing to think about for my 1st cycle is nice, though. Thanks fellas.

[Jelisej]

No T3, if you use T3 only your fT4 will drop like a rock, so when you cease, you will not be in great situation. It bit more complicated to use thyroid meds, you need to be organised and you need a bloodworks- even then it gets tricky.
For example- when people go on thyroid meds it takes 6 months sometimes even more to settle them.

[BoneDaddy]

No T3, if you use T3 only your fT4 will drop like a rock, so when you cease, you will not be in great situation. It bit more complicated to use thyroid meds, you need to be organised and you need a bloodworks- even then it gets tricky.
For example- when people go on thyroid meds it takes 6 months sometimes even more to settle them.

Thanks J, that's why I love this board.

[VayneZ]

Bit late, but I'm in Bone-D. Looking forward to see what this will transform you into

[BoneDaddy]

2 questions.....

1) What is the general shelf life of test e? I've waited longer than I thought to start.....and may wait a bit longer. I want all my shit in complete order before jumping.

2) What do you guys do when you travel? I'm uneasy about transporting anything. I'm not flying at least, not yet anyways.

[VayneZ]

2 questions.....

1) What is the general shelf life of test e? I've waited longer than I thought to start.....and may wait a bit longer. I want all my shit in complete order before jumping.

2) What do you guys do when you travel? I'm uneasy about transporting anything. I'm not flying at least, not yet anyways.

Depends what you'll be traveling with and how you'll be traveling. The Test-E I've used a few years back was by generic supps, and it had an expiration date of 2014, mind you, the guy that sold me it, would just leave it in the heat of the car all day long. It still worked solidly.

[milehighguy]

1) What is the general shelf life of test e? I've waited longer than I thought to start.....and may wait a bit longer. I want all my shit in complete order before jumping.

2) What do you guys do when you travel? I'm uneasy about transporting anything. I'm not flying at least, not yet anyways.

Umm...not an authority by all means...

#1 - I'm not 100% but everything I have seen says at least a couple of years from the manufacture date. Even at the expiration date I believe you only start to start to lose a little bit of strength. I would think some of the guys that home brew around here might now (?).... If your only pushing your run out a month or two I wouldn't think that will matter at all.

If your worried PM me and I can help you dispose of what you have now...:cool:

#2 - I would pre-load what you need and leave the rest at home. If they take what you have your only out one or two doses and not an entire vial. No, I am not advocating traveling with your gear! Just my 2 cents

[Sperwer]

Umm...not an authority by all means...

#1 - I'm not 100% but everything I have seen says at least a couple of years from the manufacture date. Even at the expiration date I believe you only start to start to lose a little bit of strength. I would think some of the guys that home brew around here might now (?).... If your only pushing your run out a month or two I wouldn't think that will matter at all.

If your worried PM me and I can help you dispose of what you have now...:cool:

#2 - I would pre-load what you need and leave the rest at home. If they take what you have your only out one or two doses and not an entire vial. No, I am not advocating traveling with your gear! Just my 2 cents

I would be cautious even with limited quantities of pre-load, depending on your destination. Even small amounts intended for personal consumption can not only be seized but subject you to refusal of entry, fines and even jail time in some countries.


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[BoneDaddy]

Well the trip will be driven, it's only a 4 day jaunt a few hours away, but we are leaving on a Wed, which fucks with the planned Thursday pin. I'm torn on hiding a pin in my bag somewhere or just hitting another pin before we leave on Wed. I'd rather stay on schedule, but....being an ex cop I know that shit could be found if for some damn reason I'm pulled over and I get a total asshole. The chances are very very slim (probable cause and all...) but still.....it's there.

BTW, I'm starting this bitch on Monday.

[burlyman30]

Why don't you just start when you get back?

[BoneDaddy]

Why don't you just start when you get back?

It's crossed my mind. The trip isn't for another 5 weeks. I could wait, but I'm also jonesing to start this damn thing.....I could wait I suppose. Ask me again in a few days lol

[burlyman30]

It's crossed my mind. The trip isn't for another 5 weeks. I could wait, but I'm also jonesing to start this damn thing.....I could wait I suppose. Ask me again in a few days lol

Haha. I understand. I thought the trip was this or next week. Either way, you have options.

[milehighguy]

Man...I think you should "start this bitch on Monday"....

Hit your Thursday dose on Wednesday right before you leave and avoid the whole traveling with gear thing.

[BoneDaddy]

Haha. I understand. I thought the trip was this or next week. Either way, you have options.


Man...I think you should "start this bitch on Monday"....

Hit your Thursday dose on Wednesday right before you leave and avoid the whole traveling with gear thing.

If I can slip it in while the wife isn't looking, I could just do it before we leave Thursday. And yes, I'm hiding the fact. Hush.

[h2s]

If I can slip it in while the wife isn't looking, I could just do it before we leave Thursday. And yes, I'm hiding the fact. Hush.

I wont tell.