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View Full Version : Trenbolone: the good, the bad, and the ugly.



burlyman30
09-26-2013, 12:13 AM
Trenbolone has a cult following in the world of size and strength. Those who love it will rarely cycle without it. Why is this? While each persons reasons may vary a bit, there are some common reasons. Fast recovery and healing, impressive strength increases, and growing while leaning out are the main reasons that come to mind.

On the recovery and healing... I believe there are multiple reasons for this. Obviously, like all anabolics, tren increases protein synthesis. However, it seems to do so at a rate that far exceeds many other AAS. Another reason is believed to be its influence on cortisol. Anyone who has had a cortisone shot plunged deep into an injury area knows quite well of the resultant inflammation reduction and apparent healing properties.

Strength increases on trenbolone rival those on anadrol or dbol... all without the extra bloat/water retention that generally assists in the strength.

Growing while losing fat is something that trenbolone is known for and can do quite well. Because of its high rate of protein synthesis, it preferentially takes what it needs from your intake and uses this for muscle growth. This can happen even when on restricted caloric intake. Even on a maintenance diet, fat loss can occur, as temperature and metabolism increase and lipolysis increases.

Sounds perfect, right?

Not for everyone.

Loss of erectile function can occur with many male athletes using trenbolone. It is well documented enough that it even garnered a name: Tren Dick.

"Tren Gyno" can occur. This is often far more difficult to control than gyno from other aromatizing AAS. Much conjecture has been made of why this is so. I won't go through all the theories of why in this writing. Some cannot tolerate even small doses of tren before gyno becomes an issue. Others can tolerate high dosages with no gyno troubles at all. The worst thing is you don't know which category you are in until you use the compound.

Erratic sleep is a potential side effect. This could manifest itself as insomnia or an inability to sleep through the night. Lack of sleep may or may not be detrimental to your physique goals if you are reaping the benefits of the increase protein utilization, but over time this lack of sleep can affect both the body and the mind.

The night sweats on trenbolone can be impressive. There are a couple theories regarding the reasons of this, but I won't get into that here. Just know that you may be changing sheets more often.

Mood changes... this is highly individualistic, but it can happen to even the most stable individuals. This could be a change toward irritability or anger. One of the most important things is the awareness you might be amplified emotionally. This assists one in readjusting their demeanor appropriately.


Lots more can be written about tren, but these are some of the things to be aware of.

Feel free to add to this discussion.

Sperwer
09-26-2013, 03:31 AM
I've gotten the night sweats - big time. Sometimes sleep is problematic, but that seems to be more a function of evening workouts - although it's worse when I've been worshipping the Tren God. On 2 tren runs, I've never had any libido or gyno problems - but i'm on trt, so I've always got a solid test base. Emotionally, i've noticed some squirellyness, but only when i'm coming off and then for up to a couple weeks; even then it's been mild compared to what i experienced on non AAS tren precursors, particularly the old PP product. Lots of aggression while on, but i'm very practiced at channelling aggression keeping and leaving it in the gym (or wherever else it's been called for).

On the plus side, everything that Burly said, especially re the regenerative effects and the capacity for significant lean gains even while aggressively cutting. The only thing i would add is to note the knock-on effect. I stopped the latest run three weeks ago, but am still seeing daily strength and size gains - eg., chest up 3 cm in three weeks.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, tren is now about as close as one is going to get to Ponce de Leon's dream - at least until the evidence is in on peptides.


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Rodja
09-26-2013, 08:40 AM
One thing that lowers side effects of tren is to run a low dose of test with it instead of a normal cycle dose.

h2s
09-26-2013, 09:44 AM
One thing that lowers side effects of tren is to run a low dose of test with it instead of a normal cycle dose.

^Agreed.

I seem to react oddly to tren in comparison to many. Doesn't stop it from being my favorite hormones, easily.

1. I can't gain size on it. Eating heavy, added orals, etc.. I tend to maintain weight on tren and just keep leaning out. Not a bad thing per se, but just a note.
2. I get night sweats randomly, and carbs pre-bed increase the likely hood. I can go 2 weeks with no sweat, and then one day wake up in a fucking disgusting pool. Doesn't bother me personally, but someone else in the bed tends to be grossed out.
3. Sleep is all over the place. Sometimes it is awesome, 2 hours of sleep, wake up wide awake. Other times, I am a fucking mess. Up until 3 when I have to be up at 5, and dragging ass throughout the day because the sleep pattern is continuous.
4. I feel flat on tren/mast. It happens, and really I tend to blame the mast, but who knows. Either way, I generally like to play with test or an oral to keep me feeling fuller.
5. Strenght gain has never blown me away, but I dont train for it, so that may be the cause, and it doesnt bother me.
6. I don't have any dream issues.
7. I dont have behavior issues.
8. It has a strong negative impact on my libido, even with Mast and test, or just mast.

burlyman30
09-26-2013, 01:48 PM
I can relate to some of the above. As far as a size builder, I would call it slower and more quality gains in comparison to other compounds considered as bulkers. It doesn't use carbs and glycogen to "fill up" the muscles like some compounds do. Those gains typically only last while using the compound and then the intracellular water weight begins to shed. I find more permanency in tren gains even if they are less dramatic.

Rodja
09-26-2013, 06:33 PM
^Agreed.

I seem to react oddly to tren in comparison to many. Doesn't stop it from being my favorite hormones, easily.

1. I can't gain size on it. Eating heavy, added orals, etc.. I tend to maintain weight on tren and just keep leaning out. Not a bad thing per se, but just a note.
2. I get night sweats randomly, and carbs pre-bed increase the likely hood. I can go 2 weeks with no sweat, and then one day wake up in a fucking disgusting pool. Doesn't bother me personally, but someone else in the bed tends to be grossed out.
3. Sleep is all over the place. Sometimes it is awesome, 2 hours of sleep, wake up wide awake. Other times, I am a fucking mess. Up until 3 when I have to be up at 5, and dragging ass throughout the day because the sleep pattern is continuous.
4. I feel flat on tren/mast. It happens, and really I tend to blame the mast, but who knows. Either way, I generally like to play with test or an oral to keep me feeling fuller.
5. Strenght gain has never blown me away, but I dont train for it, so that may be the cause, and it doesnt bother me.
6. I don't have any dream issues.
7. I dont have behavior issues.
8. It has a strong negative impact on my libido, even with Mast and test, or just mast.

I agree with 3, 6, and 7. I wasn't training for size and I was hoping for strength gains, but I didn't get either one. What I did notice, though, is a very noticeable recomp effect. If you eat clean on tren, then it's pretty damn hard to not lean up.

As far as size gains go, I found NPP to be superior in this department and it comes without the sleep issues.

burlyman30
09-26-2013, 06:47 PM
I
I agree with 3, 6, and 7. I wasn't training for size and I was hoping for strength gains, but I didn't get either one. What I did notice, though, is a very noticeable recomp effect. If you eat clean on tren, then it's pretty damn hard to not lean up.

As far as size gains go, I found NPP to be superior in this department and it comes without the sleep issues.

Interesting.... two of you without strength gains. I honestly thought strength gains were universal on tren. Everyone I ever trained with exploded in strength. Ok then... one more variance on how it affects individuals goes up on the board.

On the sleep issue, I require less sleep while on tren. In the old days, I would get by on 3-4 hours every night and still felt pretty good. These days, I sleep more. And your right... there are some nights that sleep just doesn't go well. It is a rarity for me, though.

Interesting about NPP. I've never used it.However, my time with DECA has shown it to be a good size builder overall while feeling as though I'm not on anything at all. Except for the good parts... joints feel better, pumps in the gym are great, and I grow a bit, even on relatively minimal amounts.

One thing that another regular tren user has expressed to me was that he felt some muscle groups tended to grow more readily while on tren. Specifically, the lats/traps. This is difficult for me to judge, because my back grows better than everything else even when unassisted. Anyone notice this? I remember reading Jack's log with TZ and saying his bench press was stagnant, but his rows were increasing weekly.

Trauma1
11-02-2013, 05:46 PM
I have a love/hate relationship with tren. I think it's a fantastic compound, but the side effects often make it borderline miserable as the cycle chugs along. Personally, i'd rather run 1-Test Cyp (if you can find it) all day long. Milder tren-like effects from the compound, without the undesirable side effects. In particular, the lack of sleep gets old real quick. I don't do good with a terrible sleep pattern for any sustained length of time; especially when it's a "Mr. Mom" day with the kids, haha.

Hope everyone is doing well. :cool:



-John

burlyman30
11-02-2013, 08:17 PM
I have a love/hate relationship with tren. I think it's a fantastic compound, but the side effects often make it borderline miserable as the cycle chugs along. Personally, i'd rather run 1-Test Cyp (if you can find it) all day long. Milder tren-like effects from the compound, without the undesirable side effects. In particular, the lack of sleep gets old real quick. I don't do good with a terrible sleep pattern for any sustained length of time; especially when it's a "Mr. Mom" day with the kids, haha.

Hope everyone is doing well. :cool:



-John

Glad to see you pipe in on this, bud. I think some of those side effects you are talking about will go hand in hand with dosage. I've never exceeded 200mg/wk and pretty much run without any bothersome sides.

Trauma1
11-02-2013, 08:35 PM
Glad to see you pipe in on this, bud. I think some of those side effects you are talking about will go hand in hand with dosage. I've never exceeded 200mg/wk and pretty much run without any bothersome sides.

I agree; definitely dose dependent. Anything over 350-400mg/week with me and it starts to become more misery than beneficial with both my body and psyche. If I had a choice though I would run 1-Test Cyp in tren's place from now on. I never had any insomnia issues with it; where with tren it's a gamble what kind of sleep you'll get that night. I just can't tolerate the persistent "dragging ass" feeling from not sleeping. That just doesn't translate well with either my job or family time.

I just realized it's been a while since I've stopped in. How goes it brother? How's the site doing?


-John

burlyman30
11-02-2013, 09:32 PM
I agree; definitely dose dependent. Anything over 350-400mg/week with me and it starts to become more misery than beneficial with both my body and psyche. If I had a choice though I would run 1-Test Cyp in tren's place from now on. I never had any insomnia issues with it; where with tren it's a gamble what kind of sleep you'll get that night. I just can't tolerate the persistent "dragging ass" feeling from not sleeping. That just doesn't translate well with either my job or family time.

I just realized it's been a while since I've stopped in. How goes it brother? How's the site doing?


-John

The community continues to slowly grow.... up over 1000 now. We have a solid group of site sponsors that are trustworthy and quality vendors.

It'd be great to have you pop in a little more often-- always great insight and information from you!

O_RYAN_007
11-03-2013, 09:05 AM
Currently running 250test/350tren and the first few weeks really sucked in mutiple areas. My body temp was always high, I always felt like I couldn't eat, and I just felt shitty. That lasted for the first 3 weeks. The sleep thing never effected me since I would have a nightly puff to calm me down. My strength hasn't increased like I thought it would, but its def on the rise. I actually broke a 45# Close grip PR this past week, so I know the strength is coming. I'm starting week 6 today, and the shitty feeling and body temp raises has pretty much gone away. I feel way better and can eat, thank the Lord! Recomp, holy shit, this department is AMAZING for me! I shedding fat like crazy and building HIGH quality muscle!!! My wife (one who never gives me compliments) has been completely shocked with the results in this area. My quad veins are popping out and veins everywhere else are doing the same. I'm loving this run so far!!!

milehighguy
11-03-2013, 09:46 AM
the first few weeks really sucked in mutiple areas.

I'm loving this run so far!!!

see, this is what is so ironic about tren...when you see these two comments made simultaneously
the powerful recomp capability is obviously the draw even over the sides

has your libido tanked yet or has the test kept that up ok?

burlyman30
11-03-2013, 10:21 AM
Remind me... is this your first ever run with trenbolone? I'm a low dose guy, so I don't think that much tren per week is necessary-- it is so much more powerful per milligram than test, deca, and most other injectable.

O_RYAN_007
11-03-2013, 12:20 PM
see, this is what is so ironic about tren...when you see these two comments made simultaneously
the powerful recomp capability is obviously the draw even over the sides

has your libido tanked yet or has the test kept that up ok?

Libido is really high, even with 1mg of tletro daily. But I am taking 6 caps daily of epiandro rx. When I was running AHV1 my libido was twice as high at it is now, but its still SUPER HIGH!!!

- - - Updated - - -


Remind me... is this your first ever run with trenbolone? I'm a low dose guy, so I don't think that much tren per week is necessary-- it is so much more powerful per milligram than test, deca, and most other injectable.

First run with this compound. I started the first 3 weeks at 250test/300tren, but I bumped the tren to 350wkly. I'll keep it here.

burlyman30
11-03-2013, 07:03 PM
Libido is really high, even with 1mg of tletro daily. But I am taking 6 caps daily of epiandro rx. When I was running AHV1 my libido was twice as high at it is now, but its still SUPER HIGH!!!

- - - Updated - - -



First run with this compound. I started the first 3 weeks at 250test/300tren, but I bumped the tren to 350wkly. I'll keep it here.

Though it goes against conventional wisdom, my libido increases on both tren and deca.

weekend
11-03-2013, 08:21 PM
Only on 10 mg/day so far... But I had night sweats and very high libido every day so far!

Ramping up the dose starting Monday...

milehighguy
11-04-2013, 09:59 AM
Only on 10 mg/day so far... But I had night sweats and very high libido every day so far!

Ramping up the dose starting Monday...

Keep us up to speed por favor. You too Mr ORyan. This is good stuff

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 12:03 AM
Only on 10 mg/day so far... But I had night sweats and very high libido every day so far!

Ramping up the dose starting Monday...

10mg/day Tren? That's a lot of needle work. Why not bump the dosage and space it out?


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weekend
11-05-2013, 01:14 AM
Already pinning ED.

- - - Updated - - -

Took 20 mg today, mood is noticeably more "intense" no negatives but a lot of energy.

30 mg tomorrow..

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 01:47 AM
Already pinning ED.

- - - Updated - - -

Took 20 mg today, mood is noticeably more "intense" no negatives but a lot of energy.

30 mg tomorrow..

Ok, i get it you're ramping up. I did the same my first time, but in increments of 50 eod

Anyway, i'm now joining as another wingman. I got a couple vials of nanandrol as a sub from my guy for some T that didn't make it through. The next run arrived, though, so i've traded back for the Tren - this time Tren A. Did first 100 yesterday morning, killed it in the gym in the late afternoon, then had massive night sweats last night. Libido also is back in the stratosphere, no doubt in part because of the TRT Base. Read this on another forum:

"I might add that some few people find Tren alone to be a potent aphrodisiac, though I think it's likely just transferred aggression. Tren causes aroused aggression. In general, Test & Tren go together for best effects, physically & psychically. With Tren alone you may want to chase down every chick you see. With Test, you'll want to fuck the ones you catch rather than eat them."


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weekend
11-05-2013, 01:00 PM
Minimal sweats last night (slept alone)

Definitely making me sleep less though.

Cobalt
11-05-2013, 04:49 PM
Tren always makes me sweat my ass off and get less sleep, be prepared for that.

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 07:07 PM
Minimal sweats last night (slept alone)

Definitely making me sleep less though.

Right behind you, bro. My sweats were way down last night too, no doubt as a result of the quickly lowering amt of Tren in my system - Tren A half-life is pretty short. Let's see if it goes down again tonight. Tomorrow I'll do another 100


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burlyman30
11-05-2013, 08:14 PM
Right behind you, bro. My sweats were way down last night too, no doubt as a result of the quickly lowering amt of Tren in my system - Tren A half-life is pretty short. Let's see if it goes down again tonight. Tomorrow I'll do another 100


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300/WK?

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 08:30 PM
300/WK?

200 every six days


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Trauma1
11-05-2013, 08:48 PM
The community continues to slowly grow.... up over 1000 now. We have a solid group of site sponsors that are trustworthy and quality vendors.

It'd be great to have you pop in a little more often-- always great insight and information from you!

Thanks, buddy. :)

I'm working my way back slowly. I have some Tren E that needs to stretch its legs. Maybe some Abombs, too......:D


-T1

burlyman30
11-05-2013, 08:48 PM
200 every six days


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E6d with ace? What's the reason behind the long period between?

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 08:54 PM
E6d with ace? What's the reason behind the long period between?

I meant 200/6days, but injected 100 every 3.

I don't much like jabbing myself. So even though Ace seems to have a half-life of only 1 day, i decided to experiment and see how far i could stretch it. Yesterday - day 2 - i could easily still feel it, and i had the sweats a bit last night. Today, I'm not feeling much, but want to wait until i hit the gym before drawing conclusions. If the thrill is gone, i'll cowboy up and shorten the interval to 2 days (and probably drop the dose to 75).


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weekend
11-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Are you not using slins sperwer?

Today I took 30 mg and 100 mg test suspension... Just had a great workout

Napped after my shots, dank sweats haha but last night barely sweat at all

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 09:52 PM
Are you not using slins sperwer?

Today I took 30 mg and 100 mg test suspension... Just had a great workout

Napped after my shots, dank sweats haha but last night barely sweat at all

I don't live in the Great PX stateside, and the actual px here won't sell stickers. W/out a scrip. And no slins in the local market where one can freely buy needles


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weekend
11-05-2013, 10:22 PM
Damn, well I don't blame you for not wanting to pin often lol

burlyman30
11-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Thanks, buddy. :)

I'm working my way back slowly. I have some Tren E that needs to stretch its legs. Maybe some Abombs, too......:D


-T1

I highly recommend a tren/a-bomb combo. Lol

burlyman30
11-05-2013, 10:55 PM
I meant 200/6days, but injected 100 every 3.

I don't much like jabbing myself. So even though Ace seems to have a half-life of only 1 day, i decided to experiment and see how far i could stretch it. Yesterday - day 2 - i could easily still feel it, and i had the sweats a bit last night. Today, I'm not feeling much, but want to wait until i hit the gym before drawing conclusions. If the thrill is gone, i'll cowboy up and shorten the interval to 2 days (and probably drop the dose to 75).


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Thanks for the clarification. That is why I do tren E. Twice a week and blood levels that are smooth as glass. I know that ace will hit harder, but I don't care. More than twice a week and I probably would forget what day to inject on.

weekend
11-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Never done ED shots burly?

Sperwer
11-05-2013, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the clarification. That is why I do tren E. Twice a week and blood levels that are smooth as glass. I know that ace will hit harder, but I don't care. More than twice a week and I probably would forget what day to inject on.

I've probably got close to 20 years on you, so I'm definitely feeling you on that last comment. I have to put things - keys, phone, etc - in the same place whever i put them done or the chances are i won't find them later.

I don't mind the jolt from A, but i prefer Hex. A was all i could get this time though. I'll be stateside Xmas/New Years and will stick up with some Parabolan and maybe E. I also want to try the Tri-tren cocktail


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burlyman30
11-05-2013, 11:58 PM
I've probably got close to 20 years on you, so I'm definitely feeling you on that last comment. I have to put things - keys, phone, etc - in the same place whever i put them done or the chances are i won't find them later.

I don't mind the jolt from A, but i prefer Hex. A was all i could get this time though. I'll be stateside Xmas/New Years and will stick up with some Parabolan and maybe E. I also want to try the Tri-tren cocktail


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I like parabolan from my early days, and you have to inject 2x a week minimum, with 3x being better for constant blood levels. Using E gives me the comfort that if I needed to miss a day, or even a couple days, it's not going to affect me that much on a 2x/WK schedule. Lots of guys only pin it 1x/WK.

Just my .02, but I'm not a fan of tren blends any more than I am with test blends. You are constantly chasing after stable blood levels unless you inject EOD and at that point, you may as well just use ace and get more for your money.

burlyman30
11-06-2013, 12:03 AM
Never done ED shots burly?

Oh yeah... in my youth. I was a pin cushion when it came time for precontest training. Multiple syringes daily. Enough that it took me about 15 years to finally get rid of a series of hard nodules in my glutes. Lots and lots of scar tissue. Which is one of the reasons I pin subQ now.

O_RYAN_007
11-06-2013, 05:31 AM
My sleep patterns have been effected negatively, but for the most part, I'm getting solid sleep, just wake up a little more than usual. Night sweats are hit and miss, but f I stay away from a lot of carbs for dinner, I will most likely not have the night sweats. I like the idea of stable levels, I'm not a guy who would want to pin ED or even EOD. I've found that splitting the 1 ml into 2 0.5ml injection in different muscles play very well with me. PIP is nonexistent this way.

I'm digging this combo more than anything I've ever run. I'm still thinking if I will run the combo for 16 or 20 wks, not sure yet, thoughts??

Also, the wife has never been one to compliment me while I'm on, but this go round she's complimented me over 6 times in the last 2 weeks. She loves me lean and mean, and she's digging these results! I am too!!

Are you serious about Abombs with the TNT combo guys??!! GEEZ!!! I have some UD I was thinking about running along side the TNT combo, but I'm going to stick with the TNT solo combo for now.

Sperwer
11-06-2013, 06:02 AM
My sleep patterns have been effected negatively, but for the most part, I'm getting solid sleep, just wake up a little more than usual. Night sweats are hit and miss, but f I stay away from a lot of carbs for dinner, I will most likely not have the night sweats. I like the idea of stable levels, I'm not a guy who would want to pin ED or even EOD. I've found that splitting the 1 ml into 2 0.5ml injection in different muscles play very well with me. PIP is nonexistent this way.

I'm digging this combo more than anything I've ever run. I'm still thinking if I will run the combo for 16 or 20 wks, not sure yet, thoughts??

Also, the wife has never been one to compliment me while I'm on, but this go round she's complimented me over 6 times in the last 2 weeks. She loves me lean and mean, and she's digging these results! I am too!!

Are you serious about Abombs with the TNT combo guys??!! GEEZ!!! I have some UD I was thinking about running along side the TNT combo, but I'm going to stick with the TNT solo combo for now.

Interesting about the carbs and sweats, but wasn't the case for me - at least when i was doing Hex in connection with a cut. I guess it's a case of YMMV, depending on all the variables.

After tonight's workout, i can confirm that 100 A loses its kick almost completely after a couple of days. So i'll be pinning EOD at 75 - i managed to cop another 2 vials, so with what i have i can still get a decent run out of this


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weekend
11-06-2013, 12:23 PM
Hmmm I didn't get any sweats last night on 30 mg. was eating a decent amount of carbs before bed too.

Cobalt
11-06-2013, 03:29 PM
You pansies, I run 70mg ED pinning of ace. Felt like a fucking god and lifted tons of weight and gained tons of mass.

burlyman30
11-06-2013, 04:21 PM
You pansies, I run 70mg ED pinning of ace. Felt like a fucking god and lifted tons of weight and gained tons of mass.

Lol

nate3993
11-06-2013, 06:15 PM
how much y'all think the pro's run of tren ace a day?

burlyman30
11-06-2013, 06:31 PM
how much y'all think the pro's run of tren ace a day?

I shudder at the thought.

weekend
11-06-2013, 10:50 PM
going up to 40 this weekend. feeling great on 30/day, this is a new level mentally for me. i feel as though i may be too talkative in person now, but my mind feels so clear and i have such great focus. must have to do with androgenic dopamine release? hope that doesn't make me feel retarded when the cycle is over...

gym has been amazing and yoga too, i have incredible balance improvements since starting tren.

however, on the ugly side of things, i am going to have to resort to accutane cause my back has gained about 30 small zits in the last 3 days

weekend
11-06-2013, 10:53 PM
so far no gyno flare and it has continued to shrink! it's so much smaller than it was right after my test-e cycle that i think if i play my cards right, it will be totally unnoticeable after this cycle and i will be much bigger and leaner too.

Cobalt
11-07-2013, 08:12 AM
I never have gyno issues ON cycle with tren, but watch your ass in PCT, that is where it can get ugly.

As far as your acne, start drinking lots of water. You really should up your water intake on tren to begin with, but more water can help with acne too.

weekend
11-07-2013, 01:15 PM
My plan is to drop the tren and go back to test and mast for a few weeks, the just mast before starting pct. Have prami adex aromasin ralox Nolva clomid and stano... Hope I'm covered lol

- - - Updated - - -

Good call on the water. I think a gallon isn't enough anymore.

burlyman30
11-07-2013, 02:16 PM
Have prami adex aromasin ralox Nolva clomid and stano... Hope I'm covered.

Hahaha

JM1000
11-07-2013, 04:46 PM
On my side, tren wasn`t really for me.

Tried it for 3 weeks and didn`t like the feel of it so I stopped.

Sides for me were agression (usually the most chill dude) got in a fight! (I feel stupid)..

Couldn`t sleep at all!

Strength was crazy after 4th week but heh! I guess I prefer the mild drugs for now at least...

It also killed my sex drive (was using low dose letro). It is comming back slowly! after 5 months of discontinued use!

(Any threads on mild-moderate sex drive loss post-cycle?)

my advice: If you want to run tren, you gotta be ready to get all the sides. If your not willing to face the sides don`t run the drug because chances are you will get most of them :P

P.S Tren cough is a biiiiiitch!

burlyman30
11-07-2013, 07:04 PM
Thanks for adding in your .02, JM. Its a good reminder for people to really consider the potential sides before jumping on the tren wagon.

Cobalt
11-07-2013, 07:43 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd blood pressure. Holy shit blood pressure. That is (luckily) my only real side with tren. I go into the cycle prepared now. First time around was harsh.

The tren cough actually comes from the compound getting into the blood stream. It typically happens when you nick a blood vessel and the oil you inject manages to get to it.
I do agree though, its a real pain. Sitting there for a good 5 minutes, feeling like something is sitting in your throat.

burlyman30
11-07-2013, 07:50 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd blood pressure. Holy shit blood pressure. That is (luckily) my only real side with tren. I go into the cycle prepared now. First time around was harsh.

The tren cough actually comes from the compound getting into the blood stream. It typically happens when you nick a blood vessel and the oil you inject manages to get to it.
I do agree though, its a real pain. Sitting there for a good 5 minutes, feeling like something is sitting in your throat.

I'm guessing if your dosage was lower, your blood pressure would follow.

SubQ injection is better for missing veins, FYI. And also does away with PIP.

Jelisej
11-07-2013, 08:33 PM
I've noticed that European "crème de la crème" always use Winstrol with Tren Ace and in USA they use masteron with tren ace- this is one of the rare examples where Europeans got it right (IMO).

Admittedly, my tren ace "testings" were fiasco, as with tren my body temperature would raise above 100 F (above 38 C), anyway I felt that winstrol is a right choice, also I felt that usual recommended bromocriptine/dostinex dosages were clearly not enough

Sperwer
11-07-2013, 08:38 PM
My plan is to drop the tren and go back to test and mast for a few weeks, the just mast before starting pct. Have prami adex aromasin ralox Nolva clomid and stano... Hope I'm covered lol

Why are you bailing? Read like it was ok, but for the pimples.

Sperwer
11-07-2013, 08:45 PM
my tren ace "testings" were fiasco, as with tren my body temperature would raise above 100 F (above 38 C),

Yikes.

Sperwer
11-07-2013, 08:50 PM
Did 75 yesterday morning. Great evening workout. No sweats last night, despite having had a quart of milk and 100 grams of protein before bed. Slept like a stone. Still feeling good today and ready to rumble.

Cobalt
11-07-2013, 09:23 PM
I'm guessing if your dosage was lower, your blood pressure would follow.

SubQ injection is better for missing veins, FYI. And also does away with PIP.

PIP was never an issue, and I think i got the cough about 3 times out of about 100 sticks (I prefer ED to EOD).

BP would stay low if the dose stayed low. However, Talos really kept BP down if I started it prior to pinning. There are other OTC options that helps a lot too. I just had issues going into a cycle with no help whatsoever.

burlyman30
11-07-2013, 09:42 PM
I've noticed that European "crème de la crème" always use Winstrol with Tren Ace and in USA they use masteron with tren ace- this is one of the rare examples where Europeans got it right (IMO).

Admittedly, my tren ace "testings" were fiasco, as with tren my body temperature would raise above 100 F (above 38 C), anyway I felt that winstrol is a right choice, also I felt that usual recommended bromocriptine/dostinex dosages were clearly not enough

After losing a ton of flexibility on winstrol and everything feeling bowstring tight and about to tear, I swore off winstrol. After reading a study of how it thickens and stiffens tendons, I was even more wary of this compound. Never used Masterson to compare, though.

And as far as the European community, I give them credit for low dose testosterone with higher doses on whatever AAS is being stacked.

weekend
11-07-2013, 09:51 PM
Why are you bailing? Read like it was ok, but for the pimples.

not bailing!

pimples will be under control soon, will take 40 mg/week accutane

i feel great, other than the weird sleep patterns right now.

what i meant was... after i finish up tren, i will blast test a bit higher with mast, then drop the test, and run just mast for a week or so before PCT..

since my 2nd cycle i have run DHT's into PCT due to burly's advice, it works great. ran out of proviron on my test e cycle and that's when the gyno came. but honestly i think prami is the biggest help for gyno i have come across, not ralox.

up to 40 mg/day now on the tren, will stay here for a week or so.

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 01:44 AM
not bailing!

pimples will be under control soon, will take 40 mg/week accutane

i feel great, other than the weird sleep patterns right now.

what i meant was... after i finish up tren, i will blast test a bit higher with mast, then drop the test, and run just mast for a week or so before PCT..

since my 2nd cycle i have run DHT's into PCT due to burly's advice, it works great. ran out of proviron on my test e cycle and that's when the gyno came. but honestly i think prami is the biggest help for gyno i have come across, not ralox.

up to 40 mg/day now on the tren, will stay here for a week or so.

It is interesting that once again you are doing a similar cycle than the one i am planning, hmmmm....................... keep me posted please!

weekend
11-08-2013, 02:08 AM
You're still not on yet?

Things are going well haha acne is definitely showing now but that may be a delayed reaction from the test. Gonna get it under control tho hopefully.

- - - Updated - - -

Just realized I have still taken a nap every day on tren because I wake up wired early and then later hit a big wall. Haha

weekend
11-08-2013, 02:13 AM
Another thought: since starting tren no matter what I eat I can't get my lower belly to bloat. It's as if all the food is being absorbed.. Experimented by being very gluttonous yesterday... Thanksgiving for breakfast, double cheeseburger with fries and shake for lunch, sushi for dinner, lots of snacks in between... Still abs looked tight when flexed and lean in the mornin!

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 02:26 AM
Not on yet :-( ... fkn sux! I wish I were on..... anyways, I think I will delay my cycle until mid january, as i need to buy more stuff (supplements, ancillaries, and so on)..... i may also get 100 tabs of anavar in case i want to go crazy :-) .... the fact that you are getting acne concerns me a bit, can you believe that i am still dealing with it? it is not as bad as it was but it still here... wtf is going on? I dont know, but anyways, hopefyully when I start in january the acne will no longer be a problem, due to this same reason I will eat super clean everytime and probably pick one day only to eat whatever I want.... so I will follow a strict diet

My cycle will be like this:

test E (for the entire cycle)
11-keto for the first 6 weeks

Tren A starting at week 3/4 for 10 weeks

Mast at week 10 to 17

Anavar (if I go crazy) from week 14 to 19 (while injectable steroids clear)

Afriend will give me anavar for free :D so, I am thinking about it..... just want to get super lean and gain size

weekend
11-08-2013, 02:37 AM
Not on yet :-( ... fkn sux! I wish I were on..... anyways, I think I will delay my cycle until mid january, as i need to buy more stuff (supplements, ancillaries, and so on)..... i may also get 100 tabs of anavar in case i want to go crazy :-) .... the fact that you are getting acne concerns me a bit, can you believe that i am still dealing with it? it is not as bad as it was but it still here... wtf is going on? I dont know, but anyways, hopefyully when I start in january the acne will no longer be a problem, due to this same reason I will eat super clean everytime and probably pick one day only to eat whatever I want.... so I will follow a strict diet

My cycle will be like this:

test E (for the entire cycle)
11-keto for the first 6 weeks

Tren A starting at week 3/4 for 10 weeks

Mast at week 10 to 17

Anavar (if I go crazy) from week 14 to 19 (while injectable steroids clear)

Afriend will give me anavar for free :D so, I am thinking about it..... just want to get super lean and gain size

the acne is not cystic or anything, they are a bunch of little white heads. i intend to destroy them all muahahaha

i would start the tren A at week 1 and do 11-keto right when u stop tren. just my thoughts.

topical 11keto?

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 02:40 AM
the acne is not cystic or anything, they are a bunch of little white heads. i intend to destroy them all muahahaha

i would start the tren A at week 1 and do 11-keto right when u stop tren. just my thoughts.

topical 11keto?

Yes yes, topical :-D i will consider this suggestion..... whats your input on my crazy thought on adding var? :-P

weekend
11-08-2013, 03:31 AM
Yes yes, topical :-D i will consider this suggestion..... whats your input on my crazy thought on adding var? :-P

it's a fine idea, drop the 11-keto and take var longer lol

/thread derailed...

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 04:15 AM
it's a fine idea, drop the 11-keto and take var longer lol

/thread derailed...


hahaha not sure yet, sounds reasonable .... I will think about it hmmmm ;)

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 04:49 AM
it's a fine idea, drop the 11-keto and take var longer lol

/thread derailed...

Weekend, I think ill pin tren ED :/ FK!.... 7 people already told me that i should pin ED, so I guess i will pin 50 mgs ED instead of 75 EOD... and I have to admit that I am a fkn chicken :/ ........ I mean, ive only have pin on butt, delts..... and tricep (only once)......... i wanted to pin quads but i wasnt that brave :( ..... the fact that I can hit a nerve and it hurts like a mofo (according to some) makes me scared...... have you ever hit a nerve?

Also how often do you inject on each site?

BoneDaddy
11-08-2013, 06:07 AM
Another thought: since starting tren no matter what I eat I can't get my lower belly to bloat. It's as if all the food is being absorbed.. Experimented by being very gluttonous yesterday... Thanksgiving for breakfast, double cheeseburger with fries and shake for lunch, sushi for dinner, lots of snacks in between... Still abs looked tight when flexed and lean in the mornin!

F you, Weekend......F you!! :cool:

burlyman30
11-08-2013, 07:17 AM
Weekend, I think ill pin tren ED :/ FK!.... 7 people already told me that i should pin ED, so I guess i will pin 50 mgs ED instead of 75 EOD... and I have to admit that I am a fkn chicken :/ ........ I mean, ive only have pin on butt, delts..... and tricep (only once)......... i wanted to pin quads but i wasnt that brave :( ..... the fact that I can hit a nerve and it hurts like a mofo (according to some) makes me scared...... have you ever hit a nerve?

Also how often do you inject on each site?

You do realize that 50mg ED is 50% more than 75mg EOD, right?

milehighguy
11-08-2013, 08:42 AM
Another thought: since starting tren no matter what I eat I can't get my lower belly to bloat. It's as if all the food is being absorbed.. Experimented by being very gluttonous yesterday... Thanksgiving for breakfast, double cheeseburger with fries and shake for lunch, sushi for dinner, lots of snacks in between... Still abs looked tight when flexed and lean in the mornin!

Ahhh...to be 21 again

Oh wait...21 and tren-enhanced!
Enjoy weekend

burlyman30
11-08-2013, 09:50 AM
Ahhh...to be 21 again

Oh wait...21 and tren-enhanced!
Enjoy weekend

Trenty-one

PolimarT
11-08-2013, 09:53 AM
You do realize that 50mg ED is 50% more than 75mg EOD, right?

Burly, tbh I suck at math and did not think about it, so basically 50 ED is too much?

Infamy
11-08-2013, 04:00 PM
Good thread Burly. Personally tren is my favourite and if you can run it properly then you probably won't want to do a cycle without it.

Some things I've noticed through trial and error of years of tren use which may be useful:

1. Without some test, you will look lean and ripped (diet and cardio affect to how ripped you get) but you probably will think your muscles look flat. I use no more than 250mg test cyp or test e every 2 weeks. Tren and test don't mix well together as you will see from my later comments. It's no surprise to me that those guys that use 250mg a week or more of test seem to have the worst sides. But a small amount of test will have a great synergistic effect. When I want to really rip up I stop the test.

2. Estrogen. This is a big problem on tren. Whilst there seems to be no mechanism for tren to convert to estrogen nevertheless studies have shown tren solo raises estrogen level in cattle. Use too much test as well with your tren and you will regret it. Personally I think many of trens negative sides are related to high estrogen eg night sweats, irritability, gyno etc. I've found that using very low test plus at least 1mg anastrazole a day plus 120mg plus of raloxifene a day help combat these issues. The ralox is for the gyno (see point 3). Use 500mg of test with your tren and you'll probably find it doesn't matter what you do you will get the side effect and you can't stop them so I can't emphasise enough to keep test low. After all if you are injecting the most powerful steroid widely available then why create competition for your androgen receptors with a weaker steroid like test?

3. Gyno. If you use tren be prepared for gyno. Unless you are very very lucky, this will happen. Expect it and prepare for it. This is why you need the ai and raloxifene from day 1 mentioned in 2 above. Have letro on hand because you may need it. Don't start you tren cycle without these ancillaries. Even taking these precautions it doesn't stop tren from happening sometimes. Interestingly I have recently found that Winstrol really helps combat gyno on tren. Unfortunately if you are doing a long tren run then you can't use Winstrol all cycle.

4. Tren definitely increases some muscle groups at the expense of others regardless of your training. In particular it increase back and lat size at the expense of pecs. There is a reason why most pros have huge backs and tren is that reason. I don't know of another steroid that does anything like that.

5. You don't need much tren. I have had some real nice results from just 50mg of tren e a week. You don't need to go straight in at 400+ mg a week for your first tren cycle so if you want to dip your toe just try 50-100mg a week. You will be surprised with how nice the results are for such a low dose. I shot the 50mg once a week and it still worked well so the 5 days between injects is bs in my opinion.

6. Liver. I ALWAYS get raised liver enzymes from tren. I'm not the only one either so don't be stupid and use high tren dose for long periods without a break or you will end up yellow and in the Er. This is strangely something which isn't well reported so always keep a check on your bloods on tren. You can use all the udca or Tudca you want but it won't stop it stressing your liver in the long run.

7. Tren ace. For the more advanced user a good way to use tren is use say 200mg of tren e a week to give a tren long lasting base and the use say 50mg a day of tren ace. Beware for those that haven't done ed injections it gets real old real quickly and you have to be good at remembering where you injected 5 days ago in order to avoid hitting the same spot too often and getting scar tissue. The tren ace in this cycle gives an immediate kick and works great just before a workout. If you can't commit to ed injections though then forget tren ace as it should be shot ed.

8. Water. Tren is metabolised partly by the kidneys so you need to up your water intake dramatically to try to avoid kidney problem. stand at the tap and force yourself to down a few pints after getting up and regularly throughout the day. You'll notice that if you don't your urine becomes very very dark. Some of this discoloration is down to the tren being excreted but bear in mind that as your kidneys are removing more crap from your blood you need to keep your water levels up or kidney stones and kidney stress may occur as the urine has more crap in it per ml than it does when not on tren.

9. Winstrol and masteron. I've mentioned Winstrol before in relation to gyno but it also has a fantastic effect on your look. If you can't get ripped and a 6 pack on tren, Winstrol and masteron (my favourite stack) then give up because you never will.

10. Blood pressure. This, for me anyway, is completely dependant on diet and cardio. I used to use bp meds on tren but I found that by doing 25 mins of hiit a day plus keeping salt intake down, my blood pressure normalised itself and I now no longer need Bp meds on tren as I can keep below 120/80 without any trouble. If you have that bag of salty potato chips you will notice a bp spike in 10 minutes though!

Infamy
11-08-2013, 04:10 PM
For those that are interested this is what tren, Winstrol (2 weeks at 50mg a day) and masteron can do (no test notice). I do have a clean diet, do cardio 6 days a week and weights. 5 days a week too
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/09/3ejejety.jpg

KAB111
11-08-2013, 04:14 PM
Nice, well done.....

burlyman30
11-08-2013, 04:39 PM
As always, Infamy, an excellent post. You have probably run more tren than anyone else here and in multiple combinations with other compounds. I think that make you our resident tren expert.

Infamy
11-08-2013, 04:46 PM
As always, Infamy, an excellent post. You have probably run more tren than anyone else here and in multiple combinations with other compounds. I think that make you our resident tren expert.

Thanks burly but I'm not sure that is a good thing!

Infamy
11-08-2013, 04:47 PM
As always, Infamy, an excellent post. You have probably run more tren than anyone else here and in multiple combinations with other compounds. I think that make you our resident tren expert.

Thank you. Very kind

weekend
11-08-2013, 04:55 PM
I'll probably bump to 50 ED in a week depending on how I feel.

I switched to doing 2 pins ED now because it won't all fit in one slin. I refuse to use non slins lol because they are so painless.

Acne already clearing up, thanks accutane!

Surprisingly I went hard enough that I need a day off today haha.

milehighguy
11-08-2013, 04:55 PM
As always, Infamy, an excellent post. You have probably run more tren than anyone else here and in multiple combinations with other compounds. I think that make you our resident tren expert.

^^ x2

Very cool write up. Thanks Infamy for that level of detail.

weekend
11-08-2013, 05:01 PM
Awesome post infamy. I'm already running 280 a week of ace with 350 test and am not feeling sides really other than strange sleep patterns, but I'm growing more than I am getting ripped id say.


I appreciate all that info. And excellent physique by the way

Are you using oral or injectable winny? Do you recommend adding it strongly if I'm already running masteron? Was thinking of adding anavar after the tren is over before starting pct but maybe winny is a better option. My gyno is still shrinking since starting the tren but only 9 days in I assume sides haven't kicked yet.

Infamy
11-08-2013, 05:21 PM
Thanks weekend.

If you are using 350mg of test don't expect much in the way of getting dry and ripped. Trens fat prevention effects apparently work only when not competing against estrogen. There is a pubmed study on it if you google it.

Personally I use oral Winstrol for the simple reason that injectable Winstrol is in water suspension and the risks of a high bacteria count are too much for me to be comfortable with. High bacteria leads to more chance of an abscess and you really don't want that. Oil based objectives usually have a preservative in them like benzoyl alcohol which keeps the bacteria count down.

Also injectable Winstrol crashes badly and easily which tends to lead to a painful injection and again a higher abscess risk.

Honestly, I think there is no comparison between Winstrol and anavar. My experiences with var are that it's expensive and not as good as cheaper alternatives for getting cut eg Winstrol.

Masteron is good but Winstrol is a different class. I'd use it for a couple of weeks at the end of your cycle. Make sure you drop the test a good 3 weeks prior to starting the Winstrol though or you'll cheat yourself on results.

If you throw in a good bit of cardio with the Winstrol and keep eating clean the effects will obviously be better.

weekend
11-08-2013, 06:33 PM
Thanks weekend.

If you are using 350mg of test don't expect much in the way of getting dry and ripped. Trens fat prevention effects apparently work only when not competing against estrogen. There is a pubmed study on it if you google it.

Personally I use oral Winstrol for the simple reason that injectable Winstrol is in water suspension and the risks of a high bacteria count are too much for me to be comfortable with. High bacteria leads to more chance of an abscess and you really don't want that. Oil based objectives usually have a preservative in them like benzoyl alcohol which keeps the bacteria count down.

Also injectable Winstrol crashes badly and easily which tends to lead to a painful injection and again a higher abscess risk.

Honestly, I think there is no comparison between Winstrol and anavar. My experiences with var are that it's expensive and not as good as cheaper alternatives for getting cut eg Winstrol.

Masteron is good but Winstrol is a different class. I'd use it for a couple of weeks at the end of your cycle. Make sure you drop the test a good 3 weeks prior to starting the Winstrol though or you'll cheat yourself on results.

If you throw in a good bit of cardio with the Winstrol and keep eating clean the effects will obviously be better.

My current plan was to run through 2 vials of tren, probably dropping the dose of test very soon, and then once I stop tren run more test for a bit and then drop it and then just mast for a week or two before PCT. Should I maybe run Winstrol for a short period at the end of tren and at the end with the mast?

Reason why is because I feel like ending on mast reduces chances of rebound gyno in pct. Do you have any insight on shifting the cycle around?

- - - Updated - - -

Mast all the way thru to clarify.

weekend
11-08-2013, 06:37 PM
Basically it's looked like this so far (I'm in week 6) and I planned for it to look like what follows week 6

Mast 525 mg/week 1-15
Var 30 mg week 1-2 and 20 mg 3-4
Test 350 mg week 1-8 and drop from there until increasing again at week 11 and then dropping entirely at week 13
Tren 150 mg week 5, 300 mg week 6, 350 mg week 7-11

Super janky set up cause I changed my mind part way thru the cycle lol

All short esters.

weekend
11-08-2013, 08:21 PM
Weekend, I think ill pin tren ED :/ FK!.... 7 people already told me that i should pin ED, so I guess i will pin 50 mgs ED instead of 75 EOD... and I have to admit that I am a fkn chicken :/ ........ I mean, ive only have pin on butt, delts..... and tricep (only once)......... i wanted to pin quads but i wasnt that brave :( ..... the fact that I can hit a nerve and it hurts like a mofo (according to some) makes me scared...... have you ever hit a nerve?

Also how often do you inject on each site?

I believe I have hit nerves in my quads about 1 in 20 shots and it's not a big deal at all. A hard set of any weight lifting is much worse.

weekend
11-08-2013, 08:23 PM
Quads are still my favorite place to pin.

burlyman30
11-08-2013, 08:26 PM
Quads are still my favorite place to pin.

I used to only do glutes... but anymore, I can't reach back there. Quads are it for me now.

Infamy
11-09-2013, 02:40 AM
Basically it's looked like this so far (I'm in week 6) and I planned for it to look like what follows week 6

Mast 525 mg/week 1-15
Var 30 mg week 1-2 and 20 mg 3-4
Test 350 mg week 1-8 and drop from there until increasing again at week 11 and then dropping entirely at week 13
Tren 150 mg week 5, 300 mg week 6, 350 mg week 7-11

Super janky set up cause I changed my mind part way thru the cycle lol

All short esters.

It depends on your goals. You might have guessed that mine are to reduce bf - even at the expense of muscle. In fact I wage a daily battle with bf!!

If you want to end the cycle looking more cut then I would suggest leaving the test dropped at week 8 or at least reduce it from week 8 to maybe 50mg a week until week 10 where you drop it altogether.

Forget the var and instead run Winstrol weeks 10-11 at 50mg a day with your tren and mast. or if you really must run var use 20mg of var alongside the Winstrol. Running 2 orals at that level for only 2 weeks at those dosages won't collapse your liver but make sure you give it a break post cycle.

It's definitely worth using the masteron as you outline past the tren so that's a good idea.

Beware tren is very very suppressive so I don't know how long you usually give it before starting pct but with that dose of tren I would wait 6 weeks after the last tren shot before starting pct. Even if you have a mere 25 mg in your system you will be completely shutdown so bear that in mind. People often start pct way too early after tren and end up doing it whilst too much tren is in their system. The result is a botched pct and no recovery !

As you are using the mast for most of those 6 weeks you can probably do pct 2-3 weeks after the last masteron shot (I presume it's drostanolone prop not drostanolone e)

Infamy
11-09-2013, 02:43 AM
I believe I have hit nerves in my quads about 1 in 20 shots and it's not a big deal at all. A hard set of any weight lifting is much worse.

If you push the needle in real slow you can tell when you are going to hit a nerve before sticking the pin straight through it. The slow inserting of the needle means you don't have to worry about the nasty effect of hitting a nerve.

weekend
11-09-2013, 02:59 AM
Wait, why would I start pct 3 weeks after my last masteron shot?? I was thinking of starting a few days before my last shot.

Using tren ace as well, why would I need to wait 6 full weeks?

I've noticed that effect with the nerves before, maybe I haven't hit a big one because when I have hit them it didn't bother me much.

Also definitely not set on running anavar lol. I probably would wanna keep test at at least 100 though.

Infamy
11-09-2013, 10:47 AM
Wait, why would I start pct 3 weeks after my last masteron shot?? I was thinking of starting a few days before my last shot.

Using tren ace as well, why would I need to wait 6 full weeks?

I've noticed that effect with the nerves before, maybe I haven't hit a big one because when I have hit them it didn't bother me much.

Also definitely not set on running anavar lol. I probably would wanna keep test at at least 100 though.

Sorry I thought you were using tren e. Scrub that comment about 6 weeks then it'll be out of your system by the time you finish the mast.

As for the 3 week wait, do the maths. 525mg is suppressive so starting pct straight away is pointless as no recovery will happen.

Drostanolone prop has a half life of about 5 days so 5 days after your last masteron shot you will have about 250mg of mast in your system - which is still suppressive. 10 days after your last shot you'll have 125mg in your system which is still suppressive.

15 days after your last shot you'll have 60 or so mg of mast in your system which is mildly suppressive but still have some suppression. So at least 15 days is needed before you pct can have a hope of getting you any recovery any earlier taken that and you are wasting your time and money.

I've said 3 week as that should be about right for the mast to have lowered to a sensible level to start pct.

PolimarT
11-09-2013, 04:27 PM
Good thread Burly. Personally tren is my favourite and if you can run it properly then you probably won't want to do a cycle without it.

Some things I've noticed through trial and error of years of tren use which may be useful:

1. Without some test, you will look lean and ripped (diet and cardio affect to how ripped you get) but you probably will think your muscles look flat. I use no more than 250mg test cyp or test e every 2 weeks. Tren and test don't mix well together as you will see from my later comments. It's no surprise to me that those guys that use 250mg a week or more of test seem to have the worst sides. But a small amount of test will have a great synergistic effect. When I want to really rip up I stop the test.

2. Estrogen. This is a big problem on tren. Whilst there seems to be no mechanism for tren to convert to estrogen nevertheless studies have shown tren solo raises estrogen level in cattle. Use too much test as well with your tren and you will regret it. Personally I think many of trens negative sides are related to high estrogen eg night sweats, irritability, gyno etc. I've found that using very low test plus at least 1mg anastrazole a day plus 120mg plus of raloxifene a day help combat these issues. The ralox is for the gyno (see point 3). Use 500mg of test with your tren and you'll probably find it doesn't matter what you do you will get the side effect and you can't stop them so I can't emphasise enough to keep test low. After all if you are injecting the most powerful steroid widely available then why create competition for your androgen receptors with a weaker steroid like test?

3. Gyno. If you use tren be prepared for gyno. Unless you are very very lucky, this will happen. Expect it and prepare for it. This is why you need the ai and raloxifene from day 1 mentioned in 2 above. Have letro on hand because you may need it. Don't start you tren cycle without these ancillaries. Even taking these precautions it doesn't stop tren from happening sometimes. Interestingly I have recently found that Winstrol really helps combat gyno on tren. Unfortunately if you are doing a long tren run then you can't use Winstrol all cycle.

4. Tren definitely increases some muscle groups at the expense of others regardless of your training. In particular it increase back and lat size at the expense of pecs. There is a reason why most pros have huge backs and tren is that reason. I don't know of another steroid that does anything like that.

5. You don't need much tren. I have had some real nice results from just 50mg of tren e a week. You don't need to go straight in at 400+ mg a week for your first tren cycle so if you want to dip your toe just try 50-100mg a week. You will be surprised with how nice the results are for such a low dose. I shot the 50mg once a week and it still worked well so the 5 days between injects is bs in my opinion.

6. Liver. I ALWAYS get raised liver enzymes from tren. I'm not the only one either so don't be stupid and use high tren dose for long periods without a break or you will end up yellow and in the Er. This is strangely something which isn't well reported so always keep a check on your bloods on tren. You can use all the udca or Tudca you want but it won't stop it stressing your liver in the long run.

7. Tren ace. For the more advanced user a good way to use tren is use say 200mg of tren e a week to give a tren long lasting base and the use say 50mg a day of tren ace. Beware for those that haven't done ed injections it gets real old real quickly and you have to be good at remembering where you injected 5 days ago in order to avoid hitting the same spot too often and getting scar tissue. The tren ace in this cycle gives an immediate kick and works great just before a workout. If you can't commit to ed injections though then forget tren ace as it should be shot ed.

8. Water. Tren is metabolised partly by the kidneys so you need to up your water intake dramatically to try to avoid kidney problem. stand at the tap and force yourself to down a few pints after getting up and regularly throughout the day. You'll notice that if you don't your urine becomes very very dark. Some of this discoloration is down to the tren being excreted but bear in mind that as your kidneys are removing more crap from your blood you need to keep your water levels up or kidney stones and kidney stress may occur as the urine has more crap in it per ml than it does when not on tren.

9. Winstrol and masteron. I've mentioned Winstrol before in relation to gyno but it also has a fantastic effect on your look. If you can't get ripped and a 6 pack on tren, Winstrol and masteron (my favourite stack) then give up because you never will.

10. Blood pressure. This, for me anyway, is completely dependant on diet and cardio. I used to use bp meds on tren but I found that by doing 25 mins of hiit a day plus keeping salt intake down, my blood pressure normalised itself and I now no longer need Bp meds on tren as I can keep below 120/80 without any trouble. If you have that bag of salty potato chips you will notice a bp spike in 10 minutes though!

This post is amazing! thanks for all this info, i never ever consider winstrol before but i will look into it, after reading this post I will definately use 50 mgs of tren ED even if I hate needles. now the fact that you advice that test as low as 125 or less to get shredded makes me wonder.... unfortuantely I could not cut my pharma grade test in half as I dont have sterile vials available and my test comes in single vials of 250 mgs each, but I will try to get them, I thought that test at 250 would provide leaning benefits that would be much more reinforced with tren.

my original plan looks like this:

test E 250 mgs week 1 to 16
tren A week 3 to 12 (probably till week 14)
mast week 10 to 17
11-oxo kicker/low recommended dose (week 1 to 6)

and possibly var from week 13 to 18 (while tst clearance)

now my question would be, do you recommend using tren (as i planed) in the beginning ? or should i swap the tren and mast using mast at the beginning and finish the cycle with tren? (If I swap them and I use var, i would also use var as a kicker and finish with 11-oxo)

*I decided to include 11-oxo as it is mild

I will also keep the var at no more than 30 mgs

weekend
11-11-2013, 02:03 AM
This post is amazing! thanks for all this info, i never ever consider winstrol before but i will look into it, after reading this post I will definately use 50 mgs of tren ED even if I hate needles. now the fact that you advice that test as low as 125 or less to get shredded makes me wonder.... unfortuantely I could not cut my pharma grade test in half as I dont have sterile vials available and my test comes in single vials of 250 mgs each, but I will try to get them, I thought that test at 250 would provide leaning benefits that would be much more reinforced with tren.

my original plan looks like this:

test E 250 mgs week 1 to 16
tren A week 3 to 12 (probably till week 14)
mast week 10 to 17
11-oxo kicker/low recommended dose (week 1 to 6)

and possibly var from week 13 to 18 (while tst clearance)

now my question would be, do you recommend using tren (as i planed) in the beginning ? or should i swap the tren and mast using mast at the beginning and finish the cycle with tren? (If I swap them and I use var, i would also use var as a kicker and finish with 11-oxo)

*I decided to include 11-oxo as it is mild

I will also keep the var at no more than 30 mgs

well dosed var is amazing.. if you really get it free as you say i would run as much as possible! def better than 11-keto

and you will be better off running the tren first. good call overlapping the mast too, but if you have the funds i would consider run mast at a lower dose for the beginning as well, or just begin using it right away if you have any nip sensitivity.

PolimarT
11-11-2013, 03:07 AM
well dosed var is amazing.. if you really get it free as you say i would run as much as possible! def better than 11-keto

and you will be better off running the tren first. good call overlapping the mast too, but if you have the funds i would consider run mast at a lower dose for the beginning as well, or just begin using it right away if you have any nip sensitivity.

Thanks for the feedback bro, my only concern would be the liver damage caused by anavar, 11 keto is not that bad for the liver.. I will try to get more extra vials of mast.

weekend
11-11-2013, 04:39 AM
Meh if you ran it during the whole tren free part of your cycle I'm sure you'd be fine and so much more shredded. 11 keto I think is not needed here, tren ace is potent as fuck

burlyman30
11-11-2013, 08:34 AM
11 keto is something to use between aas cycles as a "light" cycle. You will get no benefit from it in a tren cycle.

And start low with the tren, and slowly increase the dosage. I'd say 20-25 mg/day for the first week to see how it goes. 50/day would be max. I personally have never gone above 200/WK total and get excellent results, so a lot is not needed when it comes to tren. It is extremely potent per mg.

PolimarT
11-12-2013, 03:19 PM
Thank you Burly and weekend, I wont use 11-oxo then, I will still include var tho. I will start with low dose tren too, I cant wait to start it. Do you guys think my plan is g2g now? I may also use mast longer

weekend
11-12-2013, 03:46 PM
tren sides are interesting, as i've adjusted to my dose (40 mg ED) my urine is no longer as dark, i am managing hydration well. no behavioral issues at all, and i no longer feel wired.

night sweats are on and off, overall this is much smoother than i suspected so far!

acne is gone too, but i thought it may be the test not the tren especially since i used quite a bit of extra test suspension 2 weeks ago.

DJM
11-12-2013, 09:15 PM
tren sides are interesting, as i've adjusted to my dose (40 mg ED) my urine is no longer as dark, i am managing hydration well. no behavioral issues at all, and i no longer feel wired.

night sweats are on and off, overall this is much smoother than i suspected so far!

acne is gone too, but i thought it may be the test not the tren especially since i used quite a bit of extra test suspension 2 weeks ago.

its the susp, i used it as a prewo alongside the usual test/tren, once i ceased the susp after 2wks, lumps, took a week to settle...........the spike it creates and subsequent hormonal imbalance, id say is the culprit for the acne

DJM
11-12-2013, 09:25 PM
You pansies, I run 70mg ED pinning of ace. Felt like a fucking god and lifted tons of weight and gained tons of mass.

got gyno and last your mind while your heart beat out of your chest?

DJM
11-12-2013, 09:32 PM
caught up on this thread........................
i religiously do 250 test 350 tren

- run an ai, aromasin 12.5mg here and there, dont really need it, and yes jj i have bloods that showed what i thought
- sweats are carb related, be it pre bed, or even lunch id heat up
- a nice 50g+ protein shake gives a pump after injested on tren for me
- i can grow or cut...........iv been up to near 230 on it or in single digits at 212 ish...........works well both ways
- strength goes up, mainly muscular endurance, heavier weigh but twice the reps
- 24/7 hardness
- sweats are random and never as bad as iv heard from others
- only only side at this dosing is my hunger is up n down and oddly i frequently gag after meals, i mean small puke in bathroom sink gag.....its fkn bizar

only drug iv used recently or plan to..........does everything i want...........any higher than 350 and my bp goes up so i stay there.....the tren i get is pretty good tho so no need for it

O_RYAN_007
11-13-2013, 05:31 AM
I love this combo at 250/350 as DJ spoke about. My strength is up significantly (actually broke a 60# DL PR on Monday), night sweats are on and off, if I doing 15-20 mins of HIIT I can regulate BP, I've been running letro at 1mg a day with no negative effects to my libido. My weight hasn't shot up like I thought, but that 24/7 hardness is definitely there!!!

USN HM 350Z
11-13-2013, 08:09 AM
ok, so Im not the only one that is getting that gagging/puking after I eat. I thought it was just post nasal drip or something to it to me.

I have been doing 200/200 Test E/Tren E and have been happy with hardness and some strength increases. Going to run some Trest Ace between Tren E cycles though and see how that treats me.

DJM
11-14-2013, 12:14 AM
ok, so Im not the only one that is getting that gagging/puking after I eat. I thought it was just post nasal drip or something to it to me.

I have been doing 200/200 Test E/Tren E and have been happy with hardness and some strength increases. Going to run some Trest Ace between Tren E cycles though and see how that treats me.

yeah its whacky, ill see lil stars when i look up at the mirror ........ill run water hard so she doesnt here, knows im on, but the puking ill have to explain haha
iv seen it here n there mentioned on forums, but it does seem to be an obscure side, sometimes i wish i had crazy sweats and not that, but its the only thing i do get so cant complain

burlyman30
11-14-2013, 12:21 AM
Huh... odd to hear about that side. Never heard of it before. Always learning new things on SS.

Cobalt
11-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Puking/nausea seems odd. Tren always makes me super hungry and I'll only get an upset stomach if I eat too much in one sitting.

Then again, it is a powerful AAS, so anything can happen to the right person.

Infamy
11-14-2013, 03:14 PM
Puking/nausea seems odd. Tren always makes me super hungry and I'll only get an upset stomach if I eat too much in one sitting.

Then again, it is a powerful AAS, so anything can happen to the right person.

I don't get puking or nausea but after a long tren run my stomach seems to have no tolerance for high fat/high carb meals and if I pig out at the weekend with a pizza then I'm in a world of trouble and so is my bathroom!!

weekend
11-14-2013, 03:37 PM
i've been noticeably hungry, fatloss has actually stalled i think, because i'm having trouble with the carb monster

weekend
11-30-2013, 10:21 PM
bumped my tren to 80 mg ED.

no side effects except i think my appetite is decreasing.

thanksgiving for almost every meal for the last 3 days may be having an effect on appetite. plan was to begin eating cleaner after about 2 weeks of pigging out starting this monday.

burlyman30
11-30-2013, 10:40 PM
Getting up there with your dosage. If you don't see a major benefit with it, then I'd back off dosage again.

weekend
11-30-2013, 10:57 PM
yep, don't plan on going above 80 but might drop back to around 60-70 in another week. this cycle has turned into a big experiment. lol

i think i am seeing benefits from the increase though, and no dark urine or high BP or anything.

burlyman30
11-30-2013, 11:04 PM
i think i am seeing benefits from the increase though

Please elaborate.

weekend
11-30-2013, 11:18 PM
longer lasting pumps, increased fat loss with a terrible diet (was kind of dirty bulking to get a feel for what the tren can do with that), longer workouts feel good, better libido.

better strength retention through a workout. yesterday did arms and hit my first 300+ lb press movement, weighted dips with 105 lbs. put me at about 306 lbs. did it for 2 sets of 7 reps.

at the very end of this 2 hour workout, i still hit 3x8 on 225 floor press.

also finding more willingness to push through some really grueling sets, like a superset of 90 lb barbell reverse curls with regular curls, 10 reps each. 5 sets, each set got so much harder but i kept going. arms hurting today.

sweats are mild, no increase over 40 or 60 mg.

Sperwer
11-30-2013, 11:41 PM
bumped my tren to 80 mg ED.

no side effects except i think my appetite is decreasing.

thanksgiving for almost every meal for the last 3 days may be having an effect on appetite. plan was to begin eating cleaner after about 2 weeks of pigging out starting this monday.

I'm now doing 100 EOD and mass and strength gains and recomp all have been impressive (to me, anyway). On the former front, I'm up 4 kgs since starting the Tren A just a few weeks ago; and Interestingly, though, while the shredded wheat now has some milk in the middle (as can be seen from my contest pics), I'm still below 10% iindicative BF. I have been eating a LOT more than previously, and not always so clean, so the major effect of the TREN BF-wise has been to have kept in check what otherwise would have been a significant BF gain. And everyday I'm adding reps and weight on every exercise. Recomp also has been pleasing. I've added almost 1.5 inches to my chest, which is becoming noticeably striated, and delts, bis and tris are all bigger and much more defined. Quad and ham muscle separation is also proceeding apace. Night sweats and sleep disruption are now very mild and don't happen at all unless I eat a significant amount of carbs in the evening post-workout and/or workout in the evening (rather than mid-afternoon).

weekend
11-30-2013, 11:52 PM
^ i can agree with all this sperwer.

i notice that the main effect tren has had on my physique is a rapid change in the shape of the muscles, not so much the size, as i would expect with testosterone.

burlyman30
12-01-2013, 12:10 AM
longer lasting pumps, increased fat loss with a terrible diet (was kind of dirty bulking to get a feel for what the tren can do with that), longer workouts feel good, better libido.

better strength retention through a workout. yesterday did arms and hit my first 300+ lb press movement, weighted dips with 105 lbs. put me at about 306 lbs. did it for 2 sets of 7 reps.

at the very end of this 2 hour workout, i still hit 3x8 on 225 floor press.

also finding more willingness to push through some really grueling sets, like a superset of 90 lb barbell reverse curls with regular curls, 10 reps each. 5 sets, each set got so much harder but i kept going. arms hurting today.

sweats are mild, no increase over 40 or 60 mg.

Good feedback. Thanks for expounding. Interesting point about muscles changing shape over just growing. I've never dosed over 200/wk, but I do notice that growth seems to slow to a snails pace after a while and for better or worse, it becomes a recomp effect. Not that I'm complaining. Also, the muscles tend to feel a bit flat on tren only (or tren +TRT). I noticed more muscle fullness and what seems to be the restarting of growth when I added a little deca.