Brewing trest ace

[longBallLima]

Folks,

So I have never brewed anything in my life. Would anyone be so kind as to give me the run down on brewing 4g of trest ace into oil, let's sai 100mg/ml?

And I have access to a small home vacuum filtering kit.


Thanks!!

[Cobalt]

http://www.swolesource.com/forum/traditional-anabolics/289-how-brew-test-e.html

Same method, you just have to adjust the volumes to get to 100mg/mL

[longBallLima]

http://www.swolesource.com/forum/traditional-anabolics/289-how-brew-test-e.html

Same method, you just have to adjust the volumes to get to 100mg/mL

no need for BB?

same amount of BA for trest?

thanks man!

[weekend]

i would assume it has a different need for BA and potentially BB because acetate esters are less soluble in oil than enanthate esters.

[Cobalt]

no need for BB?

same amount of BA for trest?

thanks man!

Whoops, I totally overlooked that.

I did a little digging and it seems that a 3% BA and 10% BB is fairly popular for ment brewing at 100mg/mL.

0.3 mL BA
1 mL BB
1g MENT powder
7.85mL*** of Grape Seed Oil (or whatever you prefer)

*** 7.85 may NOT be the correct amount. I don't know the volume of 1g of MENT, but those number are based on 1g=0.85mL displacement, which seems to be fairly common.

This is for converting 1g of MENT into a 10mL injectable solution at a 100mg/mL ratio.


Let me know how it goes, I'm wanting to pick some up myself and makes some, just need to get the money and order it. :cool:

[longBallLima]

Whoops, I totally overlooked that.

I did a little digging and it seems that a 3% BA and 10% BB is fairly popular for ment brewing at 100mg/mL.

0.3 mL BA
1 mL BB
1g MENT powder
7.85mL*** of Grape Seed Oil (or whatever you prefer)

*** 7.85 may NOT be the correct amount. I don't know the volume of 1g of MENT, but those number are based on 1g=0.85mL displacement, which seems to be fairly common.

This is for converting 1g of MENT into a 10mL injectable solution at a 100mg/mL ratio.


Let me know how it goes, I'm wanting to pick some up myself and makes some, just need to get the money and order it. :cool:

thanks man!

from there, heat and filter and that's all?

again, thank you!

[Cobalt]

thanks man!

from there, heat and filter and that's all?

again, thank you!

Yes, the basic way to do it is heat it up enough to get it all to mix really well then filter it. You'll want to filter directly into a sterile vial, because the filter is one of the last steps to remove stuff you don't want in there.

You said you had a home vacuum filter kit and I've never used those, so I'm not sure what to tell you about that. I've always used a syringe with a Whatman filter attached so I could filter directly into the sealed sterile vial.

[longBallLima]

Yes, the basic way to do it is heat it up enough to get it all to mix really well then filter it. You'll want to filter directly into a sterile vial, because the filter is one of the last steps to remove stuff you don't want in there.

You said you had a home vacuum filter kit and I've never used those, so I'm not sure what to tell you about that. I've always used a syringe with a Whatman filter attached so I could filter directly into the sealed sterile vial.

Yeah, I was wondering how to get it from the beaker I filter into to the vials.

I don't own the filter but have access to one

[Cobalt]

For low volume such as 4g like you are talking, I'd suggest getting a few Whatman filters (Filtration - Evolved Research Supply (http://www.evolvedrs.com/filtration/)) from Evolved Research and use them between the syringe and needle to inject into a sterile vial.

You just take the vial, put a 'venting' needle in it to let out pressure, and use a syringe full of the mixed MENT with a Whatman and another needle to shoot into the sterile vial.
You can use either .45 or .20 um filters, .45um is just fine for it.

[booklifter]

Has anyone gotten this working yet? Despite (gradually) jacking up the BB to about double the above and adding some extra BA, I still couldn't get not-cloudy oil. Eventually I gave up heating and stirring and started filtering (figured if it was going to help it would have). It took forever (caulk gun didn't help btw, though now I have a bent caulk gun which suggests these must be top-notch syringes), and by the time I finally got most of the oil out, taking a look at the under-side of the filter (as well as if I apply extraordinary pressure while air 'washing' the last bit), it became apparent my filter was now just a gigantic trest pellet. Visibly clogged with white crystal. I'm guessing my vials are full of pure oil (-:

Filtered through a 25mm diameter 0.45um whatman pvdf gd/x (a progressive three stage filter using borosilicate glass with stages at 1.0, 0.7, and then the final 0.45um membrane). This appears to be identical to the model linked above except with the glass microfiber pre-filter (which if anything is supposed to help with high volume). Used a 60cc mixing syringe (50cc full) with an 18g needle. Vent needle didn't seem to help.

Pretty sure it shouldn't be this hard, so if either of you has solved this problem or avoided it by being less stupid from the get-go, I'm all ears.

[Cobalt]

You shouldn't have to add any extra BA or BB, numerous others got it working with the 3/10 percents.

How long did you heat it for, and how hot/warm did you get it? It really sounds odd that it would stay cloudy. Worst case, letting it sit for a little bit could help dissolve the trest.

On the note of it getting clogged in the whatman filter, where did you get your powder from? Trest is gaining popularity and being counter fitted in some places.

I personally haven't brewed any trest, I have done other powders, so the process is the same. I do plan on picking up some trest here soon. I'd make up a quick vial of it just to see how it goes.

[booklifter]

How long did you heat it for, and how hot/warm did you get it?

I need to time more precisely next time (hadn't had this sort of problem with test and eyeballing the solution so I got lazy). It spent several minutes with bubbles in the surrounding water but never to the point of boiling the oil inside. Stove stayed on low to low-med heat. I didn't use a thermometer because I couldn't find a melting point for trest (found boiling point though). Initially (based on some non-ss posts about home brew), I thought more heat would help dissolve it, but as I was cleaning and noticed some sticky brown goo I'm now thinking that's a sign I burned the only ingredient that matters.


It really sounds odd that it would stay cloudy. Worst case, letting it sit for a little bit could help dissolve the trest.

As long as there aren't visible clumps or significant swirls, since this is all pre-filter, should I care at all whether it's cloudy? With test the clarity was my clue that it had been in long enough but perhaps that was some coincidence / bad habit I managed to train myself into.


On the note of it getting clogged in the whatman filter, where did you get your powder from? Trest is gaining popularity and being counter fitted in some places.

It's r-p via PHF (citing source because for now it's completely legal). In the past I've had doubts about phf but recently h2s lent his credibility to both the company and this particular product so for now I'm still assuming user error(s) and hoping to eventually give a fair assessment (and, you know, buy a few kilos if it works as advertised). There was a surprising mix of relatively large globs (e.g. a dozen rolling around on top) and settled caked powder (below) in the mini-jars as well as a visible mix of white powder (background) and brown spots (sparse). This appears consistent across multiple 1g jars.


I personally haven't brewed any trest, I have done other powders, so the process is the same. I do plan on picking up some trest here soon. I'd make up a quick vial of it just to see how it goes.

I was wondering if I should change up some other things like starting with just the BB, then adding the powder (optionally with part of the BA), swirling, and only then adding the oil, followed by heating (rather than adding the powder to oil+bb and heating, with BA added last). Or heating in shorter pulses (but I'd still need to know how hot for how long) - I'm concerned if I heat in pulses as some posts suggest I'll just burn the bottom without giving enough time for it to diffuse throughout.


(incidentally, yes, I aced every biology class and failed every chemistry class)

[Cobalt]

Everything sounds good, I'd try heating it differently though.

I like to heat up water on the stove, then pour it into a second bowl and place the container with the solution in that. Putting the container directly into a pot with water on the stove can be tricky because there are hot spots on the bottom of the pot. Like you said, you may have burnt it.

As far as being cloudy, I would make tren, but it would be cloudy while dissolving. Letting it sit for a few hours would make it clear up.

[booklifter]

I like to heat up water on the stove, then pour it into a second bowl and place the container with the solution in that. Putting the container directly into a pot with water on the stove can be tricky because there are hot spots on the bottom of the pot. Like you said, you may have burnt it.

Before transferring the water to the second bowl, is it at a vigorous boil or just simmering? How long do you keep the beaker in the second bowl? Do you ever reheat the water, retransfer it, and place the beaker in again, or is the first N seconds/minutes always enough?

[Cobalt]

Honestly, there really isn't a solid method to it. Which is ironic considering how specific the measurements of everything else is, lol.

I don't let the water get to a boil, maybe just before it... somewhere around 200F. I only need the one round of hot water to mix everything. I did 4 grams of tren with just one pass in hot water. I let it sit in it for a few minutes, while stirring, then let it rest for another 10 - 15 minutes before pulling it out and giving it another quick stirring.

But, I do run it through another quick hot water bath before running it through the Whatman filter, simply to make it easier to flow through.

Do take all of this as theory with trest, like I said I've yet to try the trest powder myself. I'll probably make a small order this week, so hopefully I'll be able to try it soon.

[booklifter]

Okay, well, I did another vial with the second-bowl heating method and am letting it sit for a few hours but so far it seems like the trest (or whatever) still insists on sticking to the bottom of the beaker. Doesn't even move when swirled, which makes me doubt how much it'll dissolve in three hours (but I'll let you know if it does)

On a related note, as long as it's legal, why would it be so frequently counterfeit? Why wouldn't some above-board (or at least reliable) manufacturer make a ton of the real thing with economies of scale and sell it at whatever inflated price they want to as many distributors as they can find? Once the reputation spread it would still out-sell half-price counterfeit stuff. People have grown accustomed to trying a dozen different suppliers in small quantities with stuff like tren because everybody's trying to stay under the radar, and suppliers get away with selling flour because they just sell a trial amount to a thousand customers in less time than it takes for one to test it, without caring about repeat business (or lawsuits). The same dynamics don't apply to trest, right?

Granted, they couldn't market it with medical claims, but they wouldn't need to.

[ryhigh]

I saw a pretty detailed thread on another forum talking about the process of brewing all these new powders, im gonna try to find it. Im gonna brew up some stuff soon but im afraid I mess up somehow

[Cobalt]

That is very interesting that it is just building up at the bottom, I really don't know what to tell you. The only thing I can suggest is maybe doing multiple heating and cooling cycles to see if it breaks up.
I started digging more and I've found multiple posts on other fourms about brewing it.
BA is usually 2-3%
BB is between 10-20%
brewing ratio is either 50mg/mL or 100mg/mL

Its possible that brewing at 50mg/mL will be easier, and more BB (20%) could help... or both.

That being said, 10% BB at 100mg/mL has been done, so I'm still in the fog about what is going on.

3/10 at 100mg/mL (10mL):
0.3 mL BA
1 mL BB
1g MENT powder
7.85mL GSO

2/20 at 100mg/mL (10mL):
.2 mL BA
2 mL BB
1g MENT powder
6.95mL GSO

2/20 at 50mg/mL (20mL):
.4mL BA
2 mL BB
1g MENT powder
16.75mL GSO

Any other ratio should be easy to calculate, just keep in mind that 1g MENT dissolves into only 0.85 mL for its volume.

[Rodja]

I've been getting 1T cyp, which is notorious for crashin, to hold at 3/15. One thing that I highly recommend is to keep it on low heat for about 45 mins after its in solution in the beaker and then bake at 250 for 30-35 mins after filtered.

[booklifter]

I've been getting 1T cyp, which is notorious for crashin, to hold at 3/15. One thing that I highly recommend is to keep it on low heat for about 45 mins after its in solution in the beaker and then bake at 250 for 30-35 mins after filtered.

I would totally do this, if I could ever get it into solution in the first place. I'm wondering if it's anything I can fix with a different stirring utensil (currently using thin glass rod), but also doubting it should matter as some guys report success only swirling.

[booklifter]

This is getting ridiculous and damned near superstitious, but since it's still cheaper than wasting more powder: what brands/sources are people using for their GSO, BB, and BA?
I've never had a problem in the past with now brand 100% pure food-grade GSO (not filtered but I don't care since I'm filtering the final product) or the BB/BA from medlabsupply, and the beakers are boro3.3...

Also, I've thought about trying EO, but I'm reluctant because I haven't used it before (apparently some people react badly to it, for others it's great) and as Cobalt has already pointed out, nobody else seems to need it...

[Cobalt]

I use the same sources as you for my GSO, BA and BB.

I'd avoid EO and stick to GSO. EO just has the ability to carry more mg of hormones per mL than GSO, but I've read some ugly stuff about it.

Going to be placing an order today, I'll keep you updated.

[Rodja]

I would totally do this, if I could ever get it into solution in the first place. I'm wondering if it's anything I can fix with a different stirring utensil (currently using thin glass rod), but also doubting it should matter as some guys report success only swirling.

What heat do you get the oil to before you add the powder?

[booklifter]

What heat do you get the oil to before you add the powder?

My most recent experiment I got oil+bb to 300F (measured using quality instant-read meat thermometer) using oven at 350 for a good long while instead of double-boiler (less surrounding moisture if it matters at all) then added powder and then ba and stirred with the thermometer (instead of my glass rods) which read half that temp after mixing in the ba (and being out/stirred for a bit). I decided not to rebake it after mixing in the powder (but if it crashes I can revisit that). I went 2/20 at 50mg/ml to be conservative.

Before that using some spare oil and bb and the sad leftovers stuck to my beaker (this was to experiment, not inject), I took it up to about 400 and saw what _really_ burned looked like (instead of gooey crystal at the bottom it was floating dark brown particles). Cleaned that garbage out and did the above, comfortable that I'd found the limit and backed off a bit.

It was still somewhat particulate and some, but not as much as previous attempts, stuck to the beaker, but I back-loaded and filtered it while still more warm than before (which obviously made that process easier). We'll see if injecting a high volume (say, 3ml) of this weak solution has any effect (keeping in mind that mixing issues aside, I'm still trying to verify if the powder is legit, if it's fully 'dosed' versus filled, and if the compound has the desired effect for me [can't imagine why not, but like any new cycle...]). I wouldn't normally dose it over 50mg/day but very briefly I'd like some side effects to tell me this is real and at least some of it is in the oil :rolleyes:

[booklifter]

So I just found a phf thread from a couple months back with a lot of folks who ran into similar issues with miscellaneous something out of solution. Apparently after the first batch ordered by phf, the supplier's price went up and quality went down. Based on word of mouth about tests reportedly performed by PA (not dissing the senior forum members/BA, just acknowledging that I don't have personal knowledge of the test and don't personally know 'BA' or PA), he confirmed a significant but small amount of foreign matter, but still mostly trest.

So we'll see - if I do well with OD-ing the current solution I'll just compensate in the recipes and keep at it. Also, that same thread PHF mentioned the possibility of both a new batch of trest ace (not sure if my recent order was the end of the last batch or beginning of the 'new' considering the post was from September), and possibly a first batch of trest cyp. If the trest cyp comes in and tests well I will just sell my car and buy that instead.

[Cobalt]

Quality info BL.
Placed an order yesterday for a couple grams of Trest and some brewing equipment.

It'll be here by the weekend, so I'll jump on it and give it a shot when I get it.

[booklifter]

Quality info BL.
Placed an order yesterday for a couple grams of Trest and some brewing equipment.

It'll be here by the weekend, so I'll jump on it and give it a shot when I get it.

Cool. By the way, one other thing I learned (but not until after my last experiment) is that whatever the foreign matter is, it makes a huge difference in the volume that can be processed per filter (bright side: that also means the filter is excluding said mystery meat). While I just noticed it was surprisingly difficult, people (including blueboogie) who previously brewed some of the first batch successfully (and thus could truly compare) required as many as 5x as many filters per batch. So, make sure you have some extra filters (though I expect two is enough for that batch).

[Cobalt]

Well, I got my brewing stuff, but looks like usps is either dicking around or lost my package with the trest powder. Its been 4 days since it shipped out and still isn't here. It normally takes 1 or 2 days from PHF.
Fuck.

[Cobalt]

Filed a report with USPS for my packing being lost this past Saturday. Never heard back, but tracking number showed the package magically showed up at my local post office yesterday (Sunday) and it is out for delivery today. I'll have a chance to attempt brewing tomorrow, so hopefully next time I post here, it'll be with my results.

[aon1]

been following along did either of you guys get it to turn out?

[Cobalt]

I have all my stuff, and I was about to start... only to realize my GSO went missing...
I'll pick some up over the weekend and give it a shot soon, expect something early next week.

[Cobalt]

Got the chance to get things going.

Decided to try the 3/10 ratio at 100mg/mL:
0.3 mL BA
1 mL BB
1g MENT powder
7.85mL* of GSO
*Based on 1g = 0.85mL displacement

Except, I did double that. Just wanted more stuff in the vials at once for brewing. So the end result is still 100mg/mL at 3/10% but I'm doing 20mL total.

Procedure:
1. Bring shallow pot of water to a boil. Remove from heat.
2. Place GSO in glass vial (beaker, jar, whatever) and place unsealed and not submerged in water. Deep enough to get the GSO heated. Also, I did more GSO than needed, simply because its cheap and I was going to pull the required volume from the heated vial. So, roughly 50mL or so.
3. While GSO is warming, place Trest powder, BA and BB in another glass container. Swirl around as best you can. This container is for the mixing.
4. Once GSO is warm/hot (after 5 minutes or so), draw out necessary volume and add it to the Trest/BA/BB solution. Discard remaining GSO from hot water.
5. Swirl/lightly shake new solution to dissolve as much Trest as possible. Place glass container of Trest/BA/BB/GSO in hot water. If needed, water can be reheated, WITHOUT GLASS VIAL IN WATER. You don't want to heat the water with the glass container in it. There is no need to get the solution too hot.

To be continued...

After doing the above, you can still see some undissolved bits that settle to the bottom. So far, about 85-90% of the powder has dissolved, so I'm going to let it sit overnight and see how it did in the morning. I had the same issue when making Tren from Fina a couple years back. Everything dissolved overnight, so we'll see what happens.

[Cobalt]

We return...


After sitting overnight, most of the powder dissolved. Based on what was left over, it seems that over 95% dissolved, so on with the filtering!

6. After sitting overnight (about 8-10 hours) place glass vial in yet another hot bath of water to heat it back up.
7. Using a large syringe, draw out 10mL. Place a .45 STERILE Whatman filter on the end of the syringe, followed by a 21-18 guage needle. Hold the syringe upright and slowly press out all of the excess air.
8. Using a STERILE 10mL sealed vial, place a seperate 21-18ga needle in the top for venting. Using the syringe from the last step, insert the needle in the top of the vial, away from the venting needle (to avoid tearing).
9. Inject the solution into the vial. There will be some resistance, even with an 18ga needle. Once the syringe is empty, unlock it from the Whatman and pull in 5+mL of air. Reattach the syringe and blow air through the Whatman to get out the rest of the solution. (The Whatman can hold nearly 1mL of solution!)
10. ENJOY

1047

[Cobalt]

The whole method was pretty successful. I'm not sure why Booklifter had trouble, other than maybe getting it TOO hot, or not letting it sit long enough. There was certainly extra crap in the powder, but not too much. Here are a couple photos of both sides of the Whatman filter, post-filtering:

10481049

Its pretty obvious which side is which. That is pretty dirty. I only had to use the one filter for both vials (20mL). I did use an non-sterile .45um filter to prefilter the GSO, just to get anything big out of it prior to mixing.

Since this was a success, I'll be brewing more in the future. If I can get more powder. I didn't do photos, simply because I wasn't sure if everything would work out. I'll order more powder sometime and do a more detailed guide with photos.

The only thing about the Trest powder is the quality. The first batch was supposed to be great (from PHF), but the second wasn't as pure. This run was from the second batch. PHF is currently sold out of the powder, and that was after dropping the price to a mere $25/gram. I question what is going on with the source they are using, but as far as my end result is concerned, it seems ok.

I do have another source that it trying to get stock in, so we'll see what happens.

[nate3993]

Nice work man! I hear people LOVE IM trest. I always was urious to brewing my own batches but def would want to actually SEE a detailed picture log of what to do.


Maybe I need to open up my own site. Nate'sgear.net lol
(For legal purposes this is totes jk. I, nor anyone at SS condones the manufacturing of illegal substances. Section 3.7-140-8124, Article
9 of the "Don't be a dumbass Clause")


;)

[aon1]

Good to see it turned out. Thanks for posting up

[longBallLima]

very helpful, cobalt! thanks!

[booklifter]

I think most of my issues stemmed from the foreign matter, how much I was making, and my overreaction to the garbage (not knowing how much trest was actually in solution). I finally got some on-trest test results back confirming that I'm shut down and my estradiol is astronomically high (no DDs yet but obviously I'm not going to let that continue, it was just a short-term experiment). So, either it's trest, or something close enough. I will say that even at my experimentally-high dosages the stuff doesn't seem as powerful as legend lead me to believe - legit, feels good, but I feel at 150 the way I should at 50. This could one or a combination of three things:
1) Exaggerated reports and/or being a poor responder personally. Everybody's different.
2) This batch of powder, though resembling/containing trest, isn't that good.
3) Due to my method, the impurity, or both, not as much of the trest is in solution as I had in the recipe.

In any case, my next batch will be made slowly on my hot plate with magnetic stirrer and using more filters. Also, I tested myself with escalating dose injection of pure EO just to make sure I wouldn't have some acute reaction to it, so while GSO+BB should be just fine, I'm gonna do a small play batch with EO for kicks and giggles.

Hopefully by the time I use up what I've got (it'll be a while) and recover, there will be some trest C (or E) for sale. Sleep will probably be pretty difficult with the long ester (depending on timing I could tell the difference at high doses of trest A), but I might still prefer it.

[Cobalt]

What ratio did you end up going with for the BA and BB?
I'm also thinking that you may not have gotten enough trest into the final solution because all the reports that I've read have said that 100mg was really bad in terms of sides, 150mg would be insane.

You may just want to try letting it sit over night. Let the BA/BB do the dissolving instead of heating/mixing too much.

One thing that I forgot to add in my write up is that when I let it sit overnight, it was really cloudy in the morning when I checked on it. It really lightened up once I re-heated it for the filtering, and you can see how clear it got after the Whatman.

I do plan on starting a short cycle in January, probably within the first week. I need to get some more pins though, I think I have about 10 left, lol.

[booklifter]

What ratio did you end up going with for the BA and BB?
Most recent was 2/20 for 50.


I'm also thinking that you may not have gotten enough trest into the final solution because all the reports that I've read have said that 100mg was really bad in terms of sides, 150mg would be insane.
Insane is my middle name (as well as my clinical designation)


You may just want to try letting it sit over night. Let the BA/BB do the dissolving instead of heating/mixing too much.
The plan for next time is closer to that. At least 8 hours, as much as 24, on low heat (but still warmer than if I just let it rest room temperature) and with the magnetic stirring going the entire time. Not less than 50C/120F or more than 80C/175F. Let me know if you think that's still too much heat. That much stirring should be almost entirely superfluous but I can't imagine it would hurt anything. I was thinking though that with this method I'd add the BA at the end because with even slight heat for that long, it'd be hard to guess about evaporation (I'd try to compensate and either end up with none or far too much)... Thoughts?

[Cobalt]

Insane is my middle name (as well as my clinical designation)

Lol.

Not really sure what to tell you about you plans to brew again. Will it work? It sure as hell should. I'd be worried about leaving the magnetic stick in the beaker, spinning for so long. It just seems like friction on the bottom of the beaker could tear up the glass. Or not, I don't have one so I'm not sure if it would.

Aside from that, I would find some way to cover the beaker while it was mixing. I use glass jars that hold a good 100mL with screw on lids, so I can seal them up when I let it sit over night. I'd still say add the BA and cover the beaker prior to its long mixing cycle.

Parafilm is really awesome for covering beakers and such.