A hypothetical test cycle

[Jack O'Neill]

Following a post with Weekend, I started looking into test for a hypothetical cycle in sept.2014

I read all posts here and the very interesting Weekend test cycle log post.

It seems that test is only in injection excepted test undecanoate which is in caps.

What do you think of this? Is this equal to test-p + test-e?

[weekend]

Not sure what you're asking? But in my opinion you should quit all these PHs.

I think with slins pinning ED is easy and since timing PCT is easier with short esters that test prop is the way to go for a first AAS cycle. Many will disagree and say go with test e. But I think prop is the better choice when you have a quality product to use.

10 - 12 weeks of prop @ 350 mg should give solid gains.

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Oh if you're asking about test in caps, it's garbage and won't work at all. It's like andro mass except more expensive and without the delivery system. You'd gain next to nothing and be much better off with andromass or some other PH lol

[Jack O'Neill]

Yes indeed, my question was about test in caps, but I must forget it :-)

I will think and search more info about test p. I thought it was better to start with test-p (quick action) and continue with test-e (takes a longer time to make effects) ?

If I decide to go with test, I will propose my plan here on Swole to get your opinion 'cause it's a way I do absolutely not know.

Thanks btw ;-)

[weekend]

Yes indeed, my question was about test in caps, but I must forget it :-)

I will think and search more info about test p. I thought it was better to start with test-p (quick action) and continue with test-e (takes a longer time to make effects) ?

If I decide to go with test, I will propose my plan here on Swole to get your opinion 'cause it's a way I do absolutely not know.

Thanks btw ;-)

personally i think its best to just forget about enanthate as long as you have slins. but if you want to avoid using as much needles as possible you can go with enanthate (or cypionate), you won't need both prop and enanthate (or cypionate).

they do the same thing, i just think having it kick in faster and being able to start PCT fast is ideal.

[Jack O'Neill]

personally i think its best to just forget about enanthate as long as you have slins. but if you want to avoid using as much needles as possible you can go with enanthate (or cypionate), you won't need both prop and enanthate (or cypionate).

they do the same thing, i just think having it kick in faster and being able to start PCT fast is ideal.

Injections are nore really a problem. It's just an....organizational question :-)
Concerning prop, injections are ED isn't it ? What do you mean by "slins" ? AI are required for the cycle ? What other products are required to be safe ?
Is Torem good enough for PCT ?

PM sent btw

[weekend]

slins = insulin needle. 28g is perfect for backloading with a 22 or 23g.

AI is required. i recommend aromasin on cycle and during PCT. i know that prolactin is an issue for me during PCT regardless of what compounds i use, so i have prami or caber around in case. but for most, with test, all youll need is aromasin. especially if you stick to the lower side of doses.

torem is good for PCT. i am personally going to do 25 mg clomid and 60 mg torem for my pct, along with some aromasin and prami and then taper down from there.

injections can be EOD but i think ED is best! stable levels, less sides, better gains, and it becomes routine.

how old are you again?

[Jack O'Neill]

I'm nearly 45

Am I not too old for this kind of cycle?

[weekend]

no, you aren't too old... how is your bloodwork looking?

[Jack O'Neill]

10 - 12 weeks of prop @ 350 mg should give solid gains.

You mean 350mg/week? So 50mg ED

[Jack O'Neill]

no, you aren't too old... how is your bloodwork looking?

Fine just before my actual PH cycle but I will do a blood check before and after this future cycle of course

[weekend]

Fine just before my actual PH cycle but I will do a blood check before and after this future cycle of course

what's your test at?

[Jack O'Neill]

what's your test at?

18nmol/L. Not very high but it's in the correct range according to my doc

[weekend]

18nmol/L. Not very high but it's in the correct range according to my doc

seems solid for your age.

if you keep cycling, expect to go on TRT at some point sooner than if you abstained.

[JM1000]

Running test will be way easier on your kidneys and liver than on a PH cycle. If your blood pressure is kept at a reasonable level of course ;)! If you like the PH's you are running you will go nuts on the real stuff. Plus at your age, (no offense) you can just get trt afterwards if it suits you.

Je sais pas si vous avez un régime d'assurance santé en France mais je suis certain qu'ils vous remboursserait ;)

[Jack O'Neill]

Trt might be prescripted only if my test level is too low, no?

C'est déstabilisant de lire du français ici. J'ai pas l'habitude :-)
Tu parles français ou merci Mr Google Translation?

[JM1000]

Canadien francais ;)

[weekend]

Indeed. I would expect your test level to go into the low range within a single digit number of cycles though.

[DJM]

test is best

[Jack O'Neill]

Is there a way to do a 10 weeks cycle of test-p ED without bloating?
I wouldn't gain too much mass. Just 10-15lbs max of lean muscle

[weekend]

Yes, run it low with masteron... What's your budget like?

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250-350 test and 400-500 mast will not bloat you and you will gain without subq water weight (but plenty of glycogen retention)

[weekend]

You can also just run test lower, solo I would say 350. But you need lots of adex or aromasin to dial in estrogen. The masteron for me cuts the bloat much more strongly with even just a little AI, compared to just test with an AI.

[Jack O'Neill]

You can also just run test lower, solo I would say 350. But you need lots of adex or aromasin to dial in estrogen. The masteron for me cuts the bloat much more strongly with even just a little AI, compared to just test with an AI.

Thanks for the advice. Budget is not really a problem for me and I'd prefer to order all what I need to be sure and safe.

So test-p @250-350 and mast @400-500
So test-p @50 ED and mast @100 E2D I suppose? Or something like that.

Does it mean 2 different injections some of days? May it be possible to merge tedt-p and mast together

[Jelisej]

You are entering world of pain. I mean both test p and masteron p need to be injected every day, really but even if you go EOD, very soon it will be hard to find spot to inject gear, as you'll probably have lumps everywhere. Also short, propionate esters are know to cause flu like symptomas, (test flu).
Personally, I'm firm beliver that propionate is better for libido increase, and enthenate is bit better muscle building wise.
I think best option is to start and finish cycle with propionate (and overlap it with test E) mainly to close gap between last injection and PCT.



Jenkos Epic Split - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMlpiey20b8)

[burlyman30]

You are entering world of pain. I mean both test p and masteron p need to be injected every day, really but even if you go EOD, very soon it will be hard to find spot to inject gear, as you'll probably have lumps everywhere. Also short, propionate esters are know to cause flu like symptomas, (test flu).
Personally, I'm firm beliver that propionate is better for libido increase, and enthenate is bit better muscle building wise.
I think best option is to start and finish cycle with propionate (and overlap it with test E) mainly to close gap between last injection and PCT.

Tend to agree with this, unless you enjoy being a human pin cushion. :rolleyes:

[weekend]

Meh, I am doing 2 injections ED at the same time and it's been fine. 1 a day is certainly easier lol

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I also think the best way to avoid test flu (got it with test e) is to inject small amounts and increase to your dose. I did it with masteron, then added in test, and later tren.

I guess my cycle has been pretty... Unconventional

[Jelisej]

Murphy's law: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong".

Murphy's law also says that a slice of buttered bread, when dropped, will always land butter-side down- this theory has been tested number of times, and has been proven to be right most of the time, meaning that most of the time bread will land on buttered side.

In this case, we can assume that Jack O'Neil will certainly have loads of problems on cycle, and switching to enthanate esters it would greatly reduce possible issues, and knowing that differences in benefits of prop./enth are not that big to justify pains, also if he uses enthanate he can get away with injecting only in glutes- which is benefit on its own as injections in glutes are up to 25% more efficient than in most of other injections site.

[burlyman30]

Murphy's law: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong".

Murphy's law also says that a slice of buttered bread, when dropped, will always land butter-side down- this theory has been tested number of times, and has been proven to be right most of the time, meaning that most of the time bread will land on buttered side.

In this case, we can assume that Jack O'Neil will certainly have loads of problems on cycle, and switching to enthanate esters it would greatly reduce possible issues, and knowing that differences in benefits of prop./enth are not that big to justify pains, also if he uses enthanate he can get away with injecting only in glutes- which is benefit on its own as injections in glutes are up to 25% more efficient than in most of other injections site.

The KISS rule applies here. Keep It Simple, Stupid! For a first cycle, especially! 1 or 2 injections a week is all a first timer needs to deal with.

[weekend]

ahhh you guys are right. i had a line of thinking here but i am probably not putting it into perspective. i would switch to prop OR use mast at the end while the long ester clears.

something like

test e - 250 2x/week week 1-10
mast prop - 150 eod week 10-14
PCT week 14 -->

i honestly think ending on a DHT makes PCT smoother.

could also do stano instead of mast.

[Jack O'Neill]

ahhh you guys are right. i had a line of thinking here but i am probably not putting it into perspective. i would switch to prop OR use mast at the end while the long ester clears.

something like

test e - 250 2x/week week 1-10
mast prop - 150 eod week 10-14
PCT week 14 -->

i honestly think ending on a DHT makes PCT smoother.

could also do stano instead of mast.

To summarize all your posts I could do this proposal :

Test e : @250 2/week week 1-10 (so 500/week)
Test p : @150 EOD week 10-14 (so about 450-600/week)
Stanodrol @1000mg??? Week 10-14 to fight oestrogen and eventual lethargy
Stanodrol tappered off week 15-17 such as 600/400/200/0 for the 4 weeks of PCT
Liv52 all long the cycle
Tudca all long the cycle

For PCT:
Toremifene 90/60/30/30
Clomid 25/25/25/25
Liv52
Intimidate iForce (works very very well for me)

Any AI required during cycle and PCT? I would say Anastrozole @0.25 EOD and Exemestane @25mg ED in PCT

[burlyman30]

You can skip all of the liver supports. Its just a testosterone cycle. If it were methyls that would be different.

[weekend]

Looks good but cut test p at week 13.

And pct like this:

Torem: 60/60/30/30/30
Clomid: 25/25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5EoD

You'll want exemestane but you won't need 25 ED.

[weekend]

Anastrozole on cycle is good. I used 1 mg ED off cycle and it didn't nuke my estrogen so you may need more than .25 eod

[burlyman30]

Anastrozole on cycle is good. I used 1 mg ED off cycle and it didn't nuke my estrogen so you may need more than .25 eod

To piggyback on what weekend said, anastrozole has a 48 hour half life. This means you could take 1 mg every other day and keep levels very steady.

[milehighguy]

To piggyback on what weekend said, anastrozole has a 48 hour half life. This means you could take 1 mg every other day and keep levels very steady.

Burly...do you think 1mg EOD is needed? Meaning could you get away with 0.5mg EOD for the amount of gear he is thinking about using?

[burlyman30]

Burly...do you think 1mg EOD is needed? Meaning could you get away with 0.5mg EOD for the amount of gear he is thinking about using?

Valid question, but the answer will be a little nebulous, I'm afraid, as you don't know how much you will aromatize unless you do blood work or wait for estrogenic symptoms to appear.

I will tell you that I am on 1 mg anastrozole EOD and I am only on a TRT dose of 100mg/WK. That's what it takes to keep me in mid 20s (mid range), otherwise it will nearly double.

If I went above that TRT dosage, I would dose my anastrozole ED and 2mg/day if I were going up to 600mg range, which I have and it worked well for me.

But my situation may not reflect someone else's... maybe .5 EOD is enough for some guys. I have another friend on TRT who is on 2mg/WK of anastrozole and he does well with that. But again, he's on TRT at only 100mg/WK. Raise up those testosterone dosages and expect that estradiol will follow.

[milehighguy]

^^^ good point especially when I see what your using on a TRT dose of test. I would never have guessed the need for 1mg EOD at 100mg a week!

[burlyman30]

^^^ good point especially when I see what your using on a TRT dose of test. I would never have guessed the need for 1mg EOD at 100mg a week!

Two factors are at play: 1) how much will you aromatize estrogen at a given dose of testosterone, and 2) how well will your body respond to the aromatase inhibitor. Though there are some rough guidelines, the specifics of what will be an optimal dose has to be discovered on an individual basis.

[Jack O'Neill]

Thanks for all your advices. My next cycle is planned for sept-2014.

I will see during the next months if I fall in the really dark side (Actually if I find a way to do properly and discretely all these injections - My wife is not aware and this could be a way of ...if she learned that. Nearly married for 7 years. Bad number :-)

[weekend]

Why not make your wife aware?

[Jack O'Neill]

Why not make your wife aware?

Already tried to talk about that but unsuccessfully :-(

It's difficult for her to understand how I can spend as many time in my home gym, or sport in general (she doesn't like sport). And if she knows about chemical help to grow, no way.

The best way for me is to stay hidden for that. Fortunately I wake up sooner than her (about 1h30 before) and I have time for that (I already use this solo time to apply Dienazone ;-) )