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Strong_Guy
11-30-2013, 10:58 PM
An interesting read I found on DHEA:

DHEA (http://examine.com/supplements/Dehydroepiandrosterone/)

Some stuff people may already know, others may not.

Sperwer
12-01-2013, 12:08 AM
Nice find

Strong_Guy
09-01-2015, 09:47 PM
Another good read:

Hormone CPC #1: DHEA
(https://www.jackkruse.com/hormone-cpc-1-dhea/)

silverstrand
09-02-2015, 12:40 PM
Another good read:

Hormone CPC #1: DHEA
(https://www.jackkruse.com/hormone-cpc-1-dhea/)

This is a great read:

I've copied an paste some info I found most interesting:

"inflammatory cytokines as the main causes of their progression. These chemicals are destructive to cell membrane signaling, cellular nuclear processessing signaling, and cytosolic signaling. They have particularly devastating affects on the steroid hormone receptors and the receptors of both arms of the immune system."

"We have known from Cutolo’s 2000 study that most adrenal hormones (like DHEA) are very low prior to development of the full blown disease."

"DHEA has been shown to prevent chronic inflammation and it slows the abberant signaling that is commonly found in the immune system when it is turned on by any pathogen, self or foreign. DHEA is particularly helpful in limiting IL-6 and TNF alpha in both disease propagation and in normal human aging."

"Yen showed the remarkable effect of a low dose of DHEA (50 mgs a day for 6 months) restoring DHEA levels in men and women while dramatically improving their perceived physical and psychological well being for both sexes."

"DHEA was the easiest way to elevate IGF 1 levels to improve growth hormone secretion without expensive replacement"

"I used DHEA cream to help rid myself of the nasty red stretch marks from being morbidly obese. I do not have one red stretch mark left on my body." (If you get big enough to start getting stretch marks around the arms/Chest - this could be a good tool to get rid of that)

SoCal-Nutrition
09-02-2015, 02:43 PM
man, for a moment I thought Sperwer was back...

Great article though! Great timing for the new Alpha Gainz DHEA-TD (http://socal-nutrition.com/dhea-td)

Cdsnuts
09-02-2015, 05:09 PM
What would you guys run the new DHEA TD at? 200 -300mg if you were gonna do a stand alone run?

Strong_Guy
09-02-2015, 05:50 PM
What would you guys run the new DHEA TD at? 200 -300mg if you were gonna do a stand alone run?
I would probably have to do a little trial-and-error to figure that out, since I've never ran it as a true stand alone. Dermacrine at 6 pumps was always my sweet spot which would put dhea at about 86 mg but there are other things in there too. I'd probably start out at about 100 mg and work my way up as needed.

silverstrand
09-02-2015, 10:29 PM
I would probably have to do a little trial-and-error to figure that out, since I've never ran it as a true stand alone. Dermacrine at 6 pumps was always my sweet spot which would put dhea at about 86 mg but there are other things in there too. I'd probably start out at about 100 mg and work my way up as needed.

From the reading material, it would appear the most beneficial amount is right where you say - at roughly 100mg per day. Also, it's advised to use a little pregenalone along with it. This is exactly the formulation of AndroDrive V3. There looks to be no suppression on Andrenal function with these two hormones whatsoever. When talking with Eric, he said that DHEA can be suppressive to HPTA but I cant remember why - I'd love for him to comment. Since DHEA can convert to estrogen, it might be a good idea to use a mild aromatase inhibitor like DHT or Reserveratrol. Appearantly, DHEA is the most abundant circulating hormone in the body so if the andrenals are NOT functioning properly, the body can be deficient. Cortisol/DHEA ratio is important as these two fight for dominance in the body. I researching this a possible reason for my sleep issues as my DHEA is low.


DHEA (http://www.anti-agingmd.com/dhea.html) - Link

These are some quotes from the link above.

"The ideal anti-aging strategy is to supplement both DHEA and its precursor, pregnenolone (which I'll discuss in a bit). Since your body will convert some of the pregnenolone to DHEA, any increase in the dosage of pregnenolone may result in a higher level of DHEA. (The opposite does not hold true, however: Your body doesn't convert DHEA to pregnenolone.) The rate at which pregnenolone is converted to DHEA varies from one person to the next. So monitor levels of both hormones every few months and adjust your doses until both are within their respective desired ranges."

"Many hormones, including cortisol and thyroid hormone, are controlled by a feedback loop system that shuts off production when levels get high. Not so with DHEA and pregnenolone: Your body will keep right on making these hormones in the same amounts as before you began supplementation. In other words, taking supplements of DHEA and pregnenolone won't suppress your body's production of these hormones or cause adrenal atrophy. "

Jelisej
09-03-2015, 05:16 AM
DHEA is beneficial, but I would say supplementing with pregnenolone is better strategy or if DHEA(s) levels dont top up well DHEA can be added, also excessive amount of DHEA gets converted to E2 a lot in men, ironically in women it gets coverted to testosterone.

silverstrand
09-03-2015, 10:22 AM
also excessive amount of DHEA gets converted to E2 a lot in men, ironically in women it gets coverted to testosterone.

I'm guessing this is why all the literature I read for men supplimenting with DHEA are using dosages of 25 to 100 mgs per day. At these doses, do you see E2 as being an issue? What dosage range do you think E2 would become a problem on DHEA?

Jelisej
09-03-2015, 04:02 PM
I'm guessing this is why all the literature I read for men supplimenting with DHEA are using dosages of 25 to 100 mgs per day. At these doses, do you see E2 as being an issue? What dosage range do you think E2 would become a problem on DHEA?

As with any hormone it depends on lot of different factors- DHEA(s) levels mostly, there are some folks with high DHEA(s) levels and for them any dose would be to high, on other hand those with low levels can take a lot without problems, and there are people with high DHEA,
even with people with "adrenal fatigue" some of them have low cortisol but high DHEA(s)
also depends if it is oral or transdermal DHEA as they have a bit different pathways and also lot of oral gets destroyed in liver, so roughly if one is taking transdermal needs 3X less than if taking oral,
IMO best option is to start with pregnenolone and then eventually add DHEA if it does not top up enough,
and probably easiest (and cheapest) option with pregnenolone is to monitor Progesterone levels, if progesterone levels becoming high than one can reduce pregnenolone dosage, and there should be no problems with E2 either.

silverstrand
09-03-2015, 04:39 PM
As with any hormone it depends on lot of different factors- DHEA(s) levels mostly, there are some folks with high DHEA(s) levels and for them any dose would be to high, on other hand those with low levels can take a lot without problems, and there are people with high DHEA,
even with people with "adrenal fatigue" some of them have low cortisol but high DHEA(s)
also depends if it is oral or transdermal DHEA as they have a bit different pathways and also lot of oral gets destroyed in liver, so roughly if one is taking transdermal needs 3X less than if taking oral,
IMO best option is to start with pregnenolone and then eventually add DHEA if it does not top up enough,
and probably easiest (and cheapest) option with pregnenolone is to monitor Progesterone levels, if progesterone levels becoming high than one can reduce pregnenolone dosage, and there should be no problems with E2 either.

On my next set of bloods, I'm getting DHEAs - DHEA has a short half life compared to DHEAs and my DHEA was low so I would presume my DHEAs to also be low. Better to confirm it. My concern with solely using Pregnenolone is that my body has been cronically stressed and it might be more inclined to convert Preg to Progesterone rather than DHEA.
Beside healing, I can see this as a useful tool to keeping hormones optimized. I mean, you can take a small dose and monitor E to see if there's an uptick. I think if you can suppliment DHEA (assuming some deficiency) and at the same time, keep E conversion to a minimum or none at all - you get some pretty good benefits, like a jump in IGF levels, increased resistance to stress, better sleep etc.
It looks like you can take a low dose for the several months needed to revitalize the bodys DHEA/DHEAs levels and then taper off. Not sure if this would be the best approach?

Jelisej
09-03-2015, 07:01 PM
DHEA(s) tests tend to be more acurate, we could also say that it is storage which can be easily used by body, thats why I suggest to test it, altough as I said it earlier testing progesterone is good enough,
now honestly, there are lot of benefts from DHEA including anti-ageing- but you need to know that you will not feel much of it, you'll find lot of post that claim that they felt this and that, but its because they either used combination (like pregnenolone) or their estrogen was lowish so they felt their estrogen levels raise,
rarely people with poor adrenal output "feel" improvement,
overall small amounts like 25 mg are completely harmless and even 50 mg are ok for majority (oral DHEA) and benefits are there but they will not be rally noticed, and they can be used without need to "cycle" it, and it will have major effect on its production in body, and once person stops using it its level will be returned to baseline.
Again, I'm fan of using pregnenolone (or pregnenolone with little bit of DHEA) and that aproach has been proven as best, even onthis forum there are repots that prove that theory.

silverstrand
09-04-2015, 10:46 AM
DHEA(s) tests tend to be more acurate, we could also say that it is storage which can be easily used by body, thats why I suggest to test it, altough as I said it earlier testing progesterone is good enough,
now honestly, there are lot of benefts from DHEA including anti-ageing- but you need to know that you will not feel much of it, you'll find lot of post that claim that they felt this and that, but its because they either used combination (like pregnenolone) or their estrogen was lowish so they felt their estrogen levels raise,
rarely people with poor adrenal output "feel" improvement,
overall small amounts like 25 mg are completely harmless and even 50 mg are ok for majority (oral DHEA) and benefits are there but they will not be rally noticed, and they can be used without need to "cycle" it, and it will have major effect on its production in body, and once person stops using it its level will be returned to baseline.
Again, I'm fan of using pregnenolone (or pregnenolone with little bit of DHEA) and that aproach has been proven as best, even onthis forum there are repots that prove that theory.

Awesome info! Thanks Jelisej for the feedback
and thanks Strong_Guy for starting this thread

silverstrand
09-08-2015, 12:09 PM
and probably easiest (and cheapest) option with pregnenolone is to monitor Progesterone levels, if progesterone levels becoming high than one can reduce pregnenolone dosage, and there should be no problems with E2 either.

What would be a good starting dose for Pregnenolone? Is there any limitation on duration/amount of time on?