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Strong_Guy
12-02-2013, 09:05 PM
Apologies if I over looked this somewhere. But are there still any good androsterone (alpha-isomer) products out there? Epiandrosterone seems to be the most popular out there now. I know there are some out there that don't seem to care for it (AHv2 for example) but some, like myself, actually seemed to respond better to the androsterone vs epiandrosterone. Was just wondering if there are any good, recommended products out there still that still utilize androsterone?

testosteronet
12-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Not aware of any.

saludable24
12-03-2013, 01:23 AM
I am in the same boat. Epiandro doesn't do much for me, but androsterone was awesome. Hoping that androsterone will come back sometime soon. I would even settle for raw powder I could make into a transdermal if androhard never makes a comeback.

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 02:43 AM
It was esterified androsterone.

Sperwer
12-03-2013, 03:33 AM
It was esterified androsterone.

True for V2-V3. V1, though, was not esterified.


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testosteronet
12-03-2013, 06:15 AM
True for V2-V3. V1, though, was not esterified.


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V1 was not androsterone.

Sperwer
12-03-2013, 07:23 AM
V1 was not androsterone.

Here is what PP's original product announcement had to say:

"The active ingredient in AndroHard is androsterone..."

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 07:42 AM
Here is what PP's original product announcement had to say:

"The active ingredient in AndroHard is androsterone..."

True, but I believe it was epiandrosterone.

Sperwer
12-03-2013, 07:51 AM
True, but I believe it was epiandrosterone.

Why?

I don't, because I very recently did a practical comparison of V1,V2 and V3, and 1 was distinctly and significantly different from 2 and 3 in effect.

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 08:03 AM
Why?

I don't, because I very recently did a practical comparison of V1,V2 and V3, and 1 was distinctly and significantly different from 2 and 3 in effect.

I believe Eric said something about it on their forums back in the day.

Sperwer
12-03-2013, 08:09 AM
I believe Eric said something about it on their forums back in the day.

Boy, that would have been a remarkably stupid thing to do - volunteer that you were mislabeling product.

Anyway, I've got some of all three versions left. Maybe I'll have my guys do the analysis. ...


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testosteronet
12-03-2013, 08:11 AM
Boy, that would have been a remarkably stupid thing to do - volunteer that you were mislabeling product.

Anyway, I've got some of all three versions left. Maybe I'll have my guys do the analysis. ...


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I'd be interested to hear your results. I've never tried V1, so I don't have much to add. I did like V2 & V3.

Right Hook
12-03-2013, 08:34 AM
The original Arom-x by AMS (capsules) was androsterone. Not sure if it's still out there anywhere though.

burlyman30
12-03-2013, 09:11 AM
Boy, that would have been a remarkably stupid thing to do - volunteer that you were mislabeling product.

Anyway, I've got some of all three versions left. Maybe I'll have my guys do the analysis. ...


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The analysis would be interesting. I can confirm that Eric did state on the forums that v1 was actually epiandrosterone. (This happened right before the launch of v2, an all-androsterone product). I am unclear if he initially purchased androsterone raws but was mistakenly sent epiandrosterone instead, or if he initially read the nomenclature incorrectly which led to the mislabelling, or if there was some other reason.

Epiandosterone has an excitory effect on the CNS, while androsterone does not. This, in part, explains the huge difference in "feel" between these two products.

Sperwer
12-03-2013, 09:53 AM
Found a comment by Eric in another forum addressing a question re V2:

" Originally Posted by StringerrBell
Can a PP rep please explain the difference between version one and version two of androhard so someone without a chemistry degree and understand it."

"The new version of AndroHard is using androsterone, rather than the weaker epiandrosterone, which is somewhere around 2-4x weaker of a steroid.

New version is also using esterified androsterone, which will be taken up by the lymphatic system and bypass the liver, which leads to a 5-10x boost in absorption and bio-availability.

The end result is a the new version is atleast 5x more effective.

-Eric"

So it seems that, for whatever reason, the labeling of V1 was SNAFU - it uses the term "androsterone" but gives a version of the chemical formula for epiandrosterone in parentheses.

Version 2 was an esterified version of androsterone. About the lethargy-inducing effects of which there were a lot of complaints.

so V3 combined esterified versions of each in two different proportions in two different batches - apparently in order to get the best of androsterone while mitigating the lethargy effects and preserving the overall efficacy of the product.


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testosteronet
12-03-2013, 09:59 AM
Found a comment by Eric in another forum addressing a question re V2:

" Originally Posted by StringerrBell
Can a PP rep please explain the difference between version one and version two of androhard so someone without a chemistry degree and understand it."

"The new version of AndroHard is using androsterone, rather than the weaker epiandrosterone, which is somewhere around 2-4x weaker of a steroid.

New version is also using esterified androsterone, which will be taken up by the lymphatic system and bypass the liver, which leads to a 5-10x boost in absorption and bio-availability.

The end result is a the new version is atleast 5x more effective.

-Eric"

So it seems that, for whatever reason, the labeling of V1 was SNAFU - it uses the term "androsterone" but gives a version of the chemical formula for epiandrosterone in parentheses.

Version 2 was an esterified version of androsterone. About the lethargy-inducing effects of which there were a lot of complaints.

so V3 combined esterified versions of each in two different proportions in two different batches - apparently in order to get the best of androsterone while mitigating the lethargy effects and preserving the overall efficacy of the product.


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You are correct, sir.

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 11:33 AM
Anyone know the weight or comparison of esterified to non esterified?

Example:
1200mg of ester epiandro is comparable to 900 non ester epiandro.

I remember reading Matt P saying 1200mg of epiandro is stronger than 1200mg of ester epiandro.

Right Hook
12-03-2013, 11:37 AM
Anyone know the weight or comparison of esterified to non esterified?

Example:
1200mg of ester epiandro is comparable to 900 non ester epiandro.

I remember reading Matt P saying 1200mg of epiandro is stronger than 1200mg of ester epiandro.

Depends on ester. Was it enanthate or undecanoate?

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 11:39 AM
Depends on ester. Was it enanthate or undecanoate?

Enanthoxy...so, enanthate I would assume.

Right Hook
12-03-2013, 11:57 AM
Enanthoxy...so, enanthate I would assume.

Yes it's an enanthate plus oxygen atom.

The enanthate ester has a mol weight of 130'ish. Androsterone is 290.44.

So about 69% of androsterone enanthate is actual androsterone.

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 12:00 PM
Yes it's an enanthate plus oxygen atom.

The enanthate ester has a mol weight of 130'ish. Androsterone is 290.44.

So about 69% of androsterone enanthate is actual androsterone.

Thanks, epiandrosterone should be the same, right?

Right Hook
12-03-2013, 12:22 PM
Thanks, epiandrosterone should be the same, right?

Yep

testosteronet
12-03-2013, 12:33 PM
Yep

Thanks again.

Strong_Guy
12-03-2013, 09:03 PM
Wow this thread blew up lol. Thanks for the discussion, I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for any androsterone products that may pop up in the future. It's a shame it got a bad rap due to the potential lethargy issues. I found it easily remedied (at least for me) when stacked properly with something. I was hoping there might be something out there to stack with the rest of my derm cycle I'm running. I'll probably just pick up an epiandro product instead.

GYMnTONIC.com
12-04-2013, 10:27 AM
We carry a few epi andro products that you may be interested in this:





we have EPI ANDRO RX by IML:

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u579/StrongmanAlbum/epiandrolabel_zpsc0ced41c.jpg (http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/StrongmanAlbum/media/epiandrolabel_zpsc0ced41c.jpg.html)


EPI ANDRO RX LINK
Epi Andro RX 4 pack- Swole Source ANDROhard Discount (http://stores.gymntonic.com/-strse-216/Epi-Andro-RX-4/Detail.bok)



We have the LGI STANO 200:

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u579/StrongmanAlbum/lgiSTANO200_zpsb75bc24e.jpg (http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/StrongmanAlbum/media/lgiSTANO200_zpsb75bc24e.jpg.html)


Stano200 Link
STANO-200 by LGI (stanodrol) (http://stores.gymntonic.com/-strse-233/STANO-dsh-200-by-LGI-%28stanodrol%29/Detail.bok)



Last but not least, we "MIGHT" carry the prescription nutrition version called, "EPI ANDRO HARD".
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u579/StrongmanAlbum/PNEPIANDROlabel1_zps038cd5d0.jpg (http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/StrongmanAlbum/media/PNEPIANDROlabel1_zps038cd5d0.jpg.html)

A beta batch was made and actually several members of this forum have purchased it and we are awaiting reviews.

Preliminary reviews from SS and from other forums such as PHF, has revealed that some of these Epi Andro type products do actually act somewhat similar to to AndroHard, but slightly weaker is all. But nonetheless give a nice hardening effect, libido increases, vascularity and strength.

If you look around and do a search, there are endless posts about AndroHard in this forum. It seems to be very much a forum favorite :)

weekend
12-04-2013, 10:42 AM
^nice options.

the androdrive is DHEA enanthate, not androsterone enanthate. big difference in effect there, just FYI.

- - - Updated - - -

oh yeah, and that looks like it's by andro factory... they ran PP out of business, at least i think they facilitated the DEA raid.

GYMnTONIC.com
12-04-2013, 10:52 AM
^nice options.

the androdrive is DHEA enanthate, not androsterone enanthate. big difference in effect there, just FYI.



- - - Updated - - -

oh yeah, and that looks like it's by andro factory... they ran PP out of business, at least i think they facilitated the DEA raid.

Ok yes, thank you!! Review wise, to be clarified. In multiple reviews this products "effects" have been compared to very similar to AndroDrive is what should have been stated.

Really, it is believed they were behind it? care to elaborate at all? Is this for certain or just a common theory??

burlyman30
12-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Androfactory was started by Eric's (of PP) ex girlfriend. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and she proved it. She stole all the PP formulas and customer lists before she left. Could she have tipped off the FDA? It's possible. The best way for her new business of cloned products to flourish would be to eliminate the competition. DID she do that? Only she and the FDA know for sure. So there's your background story.

mahatma
12-04-2013, 12:02 PM
I'm sure the issues leading to the downfall of PP are of significant interest, but it's kinda an off topic spinoff for this thread, just saying.

Those products look nice ! how long have the beta batches been out for trials ?

ryhigh
12-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Androfactory was started by Eric's (of PP) ex girlfriend. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and she proved it. She stole all the PP formulas and customer lists before she left. Could she have tipped off the FDA? It's possible. The best way for her new business of cloned products to flourish would be to eliminate the competition. DID she do that? Only she and the FDA know for sure. So there's your background story.


Hoy shit!!! I didn't know it was his ex! Wow, females are scandalous!!!!! Mind=Blown. Well im going to support his new venture even more (if possible) just to make it a even bigger success. I know so many people who are excited hes getting back into the mix

GYMnTONIC.com
12-04-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm sure the issues leading to the downfall of PP are of significant interest, but it's kinda an off topic spinoff for this thread, just saying.

Those products look nice ! how long have the beta batches been out for trials ?


Well, the AndroFocus, EpiAndro, and Stano all have been around and have very good feedback. They definitely do work. The PN beta batch will ship end of this week beginning of next and then we will go from there and see how people like it.

If Eric comes out with similar products, or one of the members here who is looking to possibly come out with a similar version of AndroHard in the very near future. We will align with those products as well.

Regardless that the AndroFocus has very good results and reviews from several legit sources, if it turns out to be indeed true as to the company being started in that manner, we will not support them for a second and we will drop that line and all of it's products without hesitation. We would never support a dishonest endeavor or one that was created in such a manner.

Would like further info. before doing so though so even though it might be a spin-off a bit from this thread, it still is important for us and others to know the truth :)

burlyman30
12-04-2013, 01:25 PM
Sending PM, Wes.

ryhigh
12-04-2013, 01:53 PM
Well, the AndroFocus, EpiAndro, and Stano all have been around and have very good feedback. They definitely do work. The PN beta batch will ship end of this week beginning of next and then we will go from there and see how people like it.

If Eric comes out with similar products, or one of the members here who is looking to possibly come out with a similar version of AndroHard in the very near future. We will align with those products as well.

Regardless that the AndroFocus has very good results and reviews from several legit sources, if it turns out to be indeed true as to the company being started in that manner, we will not support them for a second and we will drop that line and all of it's products without hesitation. We would never support a dishonest endeavor or one that was created in such a manner.

Would like further info. before doing so though so even though it might be a spin-off a bit from this thread, it still is important for us and others to know the truth :)

Now that's a great morally motivated business man right there. I can really appreciate that model, you have my business for sure

nate3993
12-04-2013, 05:40 PM
no kidding, right? i didn't expect him to say that, and honestly, he doesn't have to. he runs a business and he had no hand in the demise of primordial so i really wouldn't fault the guy for selling their products, but dam, that just shows some true character. highly approved

GYMnTONIC.com
12-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Thanx guys. You know, I'm not really much of a business man. Just so happen to run a small business is all.

Not motivated by profit, never have been, never will be. Loyal to this forum, the people here and to the Industry. Ethically speaking I would never carry any product or manafacturer that has relied on such a tactic, it's disgusting.

I CANNOT for a moment respect what I have heard about AndroFactory. I do believe I have trustworthy information that would make this reliable information, so I have chosen to eliminate that lineup as of now.

It's funny to me how many scumbags exist in this Industry. When we should be all on the same "team". Recently we have GYMnTONIC as a seller on Ebay but I also use my personal account to list supplements. I had been getting suspended left and right from Ebay and after speaking to them, they admitted that another seller was "reporting" my auctions. One day I listed PN's progear, with SuperDMZ in the title. I got an email threatening me to take the auction down from a company called LegendarySupplements because they have a product that competes with PN's version. What they didn't know, was that it was me behind the auction. The following day my account was suspended for that auction. I had found the scumbag behind it. I confronted Leg.Suppz and he claimed it was his Marketing Director and they fired the guy. Complete Bullshit. So now I will not deal with LegendarySupplements or with AndroFactory. Bottom line. Those two are the first and they won't be the last that I have added to my list. I will openly call out anyone in this Industry who defrauds or attempts to defrauds others. There is a right and wrong way to do business. These 2 companies have chosen the wrong method.

Will be happy to carry and products Eric, Sperwer or anyone else in this forum comes out with. If you have a product you want carried, message us. Also we are happy to also advocate So-Cal Nutrition. So Cal is not a "competitor" per say. We work together on things here and there. If I am ever out of a product, and he has it..he is the first place that I turn...that is the way it should be IMO :)

Thanx SS :)

So..anyone else know any androsterone products LOL??

weekend
12-04-2013, 09:41 PM
^ awesome.

ryhigh
12-04-2013, 09:47 PM
Thanx guys. You know, I'm not really much of a business man. Just so happen to run a small business is all.

Not motivated by profit, never have been, never will be. Loyal to this forum, the people here and to the Industry. Ethically speaking I would never carry any product or manafacturer that has relied on such a tactic, it's disgusting.

I CANNOT for a moment respect what I have heard about AndroFactory. I do believe I have trustworthy information that would make this reliable information, so I have chosen to eliminate that lineup as of now.

It's funny to me how many scumbags exist in this Industry. When we should be all on the same "team". Recently we have GYMnTONIC as a seller on Ebay but I also use my personal account to list supplements. I had been getting suspended left and right from Ebay and after speaking to them, they admitted that another seller was "reporting" my auctions. One day I listed PN's progear, with SuperDMZ in the title. I got an email threatening me to take the auction down from a company called LegendarySupplements because they have a product that competes with PN's version. What they didn't know, was that it was me behind the auction. The following day my account was suspended for that auction. I had found the scumbag behind it. I confronted Leg.Suppz and he claimed it was his Marketing Director and they fired the guy. Complete Bullshit. So now I will not deal with LegendarySupplements or with AndroFactory. Bottom line. Those two are the first and they won't be the last that I have added to my list. I will openly call out anyone in this Industry who defrauds or attempts to defrauds others. There is a right and wrong way to do business. These 2 companies have chosen the wrong method.

Will be happy to carry and products Eric, Sperwer or anyone else in this forum comes out with. If you have a product you want carried, message us. Also we are happy to also advocate So-Cal Nutrition. So Cal is not a "competitor" per say. We work together on things here and there. If I am ever out of a product, and he has it..he is the first place that I turn...that is the way it should be IMO :)

Thanx SS :)

So..anyone else know any androsterone products LOL??

Wow, truly a stand up guy. I have a big order coming in a couple weeks, you have my business for sure!

h2s
12-05-2013, 09:46 AM
Great post GnT....and swole source might introduce you too some products soon, but no more word on that for now.

Strong_Guy
10-01-2014, 07:30 PM
So I dug out this old thread to ask a quick question. I've heard of Mr Supps Katanadrol but never really looked at the product profile. I'm a little confused...

The product description says:

"What is in Katanadrol 3.0? 3a-hydrodxy-5a-androstan-17-one; a version of Androsterone. Androsterone is a precursor to 1-testosterone..." What???

So... 3a-hydrodxy-5a-androstan-17-one is the alpha isomer of androsterone, right? But the precursor to 1-testosterone is 1-DHEA, not androsterone, right? So what the heck is in this product, androsterone or 1-DHEA?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, and I would love clarification if so. But if this actually contains the elusive alpha isomer of androsterone, I would definitely be interested in picking some up since it would be only one of two products out there (that I'm aware of) that even contains it.

Right Hook
10-01-2014, 07:34 PM
The people who sell katana Drol don't know what they are selling.

Right Hook
10-01-2014, 07:36 PM
Katanadrol 3.0 Loggers needed for MrSupps Product (http://www.leanbulk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16613)

Strong_Guy
10-01-2014, 07:46 PM
Katanadrol 3.0 Loggers needed for MrSupps Product (http://www.leanbulk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16613)

Hmmm.... Well that thread turned into a train wreck. I think I'll pass, looks under dosed anyway, whatever it is...

SoCal-Nutrition
08-04-2015, 04:43 PM
Alpha Gainz Alpha Andro TD (Transdermal Androsterone) (http://socal-nutrition.com/alpha-andro)

5 alpha victim
08-04-2015, 07:50 PM
I'm thinking maybe mixing some of this in with with the Epiandrosterone from Andro 300.

Create something close to a transdermal version of the Andro Hard that contained both the Epiandrosterone and Androsterone

SoCal-Nutrition
08-04-2015, 08:10 PM
If you don't already have andro 300, alpha gainz also has transdermal Epiandrosterone 😜

KGPL
08-05-2015, 02:58 PM
How does androsterone compare to epiandro?

Strong_Guy
08-05-2015, 03:43 PM
How does androsterone compare to epiandro?

For ME with androsterone, strength increase was noticeably better, seemed to gain a little more size, and vascularity/muscle hardness was on par with epiandro. However I did notice a bit more lethargy. This was with Primordial Performance's AHv2. I believe this varies largely from person as epiandro has never done much for me, but others love it. I'm really intrigued to use it in TD form to see if that negates some of the lethargy. I've noticed a significant difference in lethargy (less) with the 1-Andro in TD vs taking it by oral means for example.

5 alpha victim
08-06-2015, 12:26 AM
Please keep us updated with your experience with the TD androsterone if you use it. I'll be trying it but not until October.

dacookiemonsta
09-03-2015, 10:41 AM
I'm hoping to start a log including it in the next couple weeks.