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longBallLima
01-05-2014, 09:50 PM
Hey guys, I'll be finishing off my cycle soon (in February) and wanted to learn/check/ask a few things about my pct to make sure I do everything pretty :) Thought the genius bar can always increase my humble knowledge lol

So some of these may sound newbie-ish, but again, im also confirming some of what I already know, but making sure instead of jumping into assumptions.

The cycle was:
400/wk Pharma Cyp for 16 weeks
600/wk EQ for 16 weeks
100/EOD Trest Ace
HCG 240iu M/W/F

Did not have any significant estro sides during the whole cycle, still haven't touched the AI

My thought was start the AI while on still, maybe with the last injection, keep the HCG till the first day of the Clomid, run Clomid at 25 ED for 4 weeks, keeping the AI (exemestane) all the way to the end, at maybe 25 EOD, dropping to 12.5 in the last 2 weeks of the PCT. At that point, run bloods, see if the numbers are good and stop or keep going accordingly. Too much AI? Enough clomid? Right HCG timing?

Regarding the EQ, do I start my clomid 4 weeks after the last injection? Or should I stop the EQ, keep the Test and Trest for another week, stop those and start the clomid 3 weeks after that?

I might run some winny on the last 10 days of the cycle because of a photo shoot, but i dont think that has anything to do with the timing here.

During and after my pct, I'm also thinking about running some GRF and GHRP-6 and the B-complex, now that we have a reliable, yet affordable supplier, for that. On a fucking rat of course. Any advice here? coming off of a cycle, is my prolactin any more or less likely to respond negatively?

Im sure there's more, but that's all I could think for now lol

As always, thanks!!

Freepressright
01-06-2014, 10:35 AM
Best I have EVER felt on PCT is 25mg of Clomid ED plus iForce Intimidate (n-methyl d-aspartic acid) at one cap every night before bed. The difference is incredible versus other PCTs where I did not include the Intimidate. Balls plumped up, sex drive shot up, I have acne that's at an on-cycle level, the pumps are just sick and the enhanced stability (presumably from CNS stimulation via NMDA) is wonderful. I recommend adding this in to your PCT if you can afford it.

longBallLima
01-06-2014, 11:15 AM
You know, I've done that before and I felt I had a lot of classic sides from prolactin. Plus I think I read something here about nmda itself aromatizing. Does that make any sense?

Thanks fpr!

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Freepressright
01-06-2014, 12:18 PM
You know, I've done that before and I felt I had a lot of classic sides from prolactin. Plus I think I read something here about nmda itself aromatizing. Does that make any sense?

Thanks fpr!

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DAA, especially of the more potent variety, does have a real potential for raising prolactin. I strongly advise the use of L-Dopa OR p-5-p in split doses if you're going to use it. I have never had any estrogen issues whatsoever while on any DAA product.

nate3993
01-06-2014, 12:19 PM
Best to use L-Dopa AND p5p together instead of just one or the other. But I'd say L-Dopa is the heavy hitter between the 2 when it comes to prolactin.

Freepressright
01-06-2014, 12:22 PM
I'd tell you to buy Prolactrone by Black Lion because it's genuinely a good product for lowering prolactin and I have personal experience with it, but it is also pricey. This company seems to have the same product, sans the green tea for enhanced absorption/use of the L-dopa:

Synthetic Supplements (Analyzed Supplements) Dopadex (90 Caps): Discount Dopadex Supplements (http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/synthetic-supplements/dopadex-90-caps.html)

Add in some cheap NOW green tea pills and you've got a pretty killer anti-prolactin for not much money at all. I can tell you if this stuff hits like Prolactrone does, it's the real deal. Prolactrone was so effective that several of us got temporary carpal tunnel/finger tingling from it.

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Best to use L-Dopa AND p5p together instead of just one or the other. But I'd say L-Dopa is the heavy hitter between the 2 when it comes to prolactin.

I researched this a while back and everything I could find suggested NOT to dose the P-5-P and L-dopa closely together at all because of a 'cancellation' effect. If you're going to do the two together, space the doses considerably.

Jelisej
01-06-2014, 05:14 PM
Go with conventional PCT used by majority people here (SERM+ a tiny bit of Exem+ vitamin D+ mixed nuts or tocco 8 or similar product, viagra or sidenafil works very well with clomid/nolva and mixed nuts/tocco 8.

Just by using clomid your LH will be raised as much as your body can raise it, adding DAA is not good idea you dont get benefits really, just sides.
NMDA receptors when overstimulated cause nerve cell death and lessions in brain because of excitotoxicity- as a matter of fact in animal studies NMDA itself is used to induce brain lesions to order due to precisely this effect of killing brain cells. DAA is NMDA agonist so logically in sufficient amount can cause excitotoxicity/neurotoxicity.
DAA is present in small quantities endogenously, but that doesn't mean that exogenous DAA supplementation is safe- as we don't know at what dose exitotoxicity might become significant- as a matter of fact whole idea of DAA supplementation is to cause NMDA receptor stimulation at levels significantly higher than what would occur endogenously in order to try to stimulate the HPTA

I would not suggest you using GHRP-s in PCT.


Also make sure you calculate your PCT correctly, you can always extend cycle by adding testosterone propionate, which will make calculations easier, you run test p for 2-3 weeks longer than other stuff, last shot have test p and HCG together, morning, second day evening you start clomid.

Also make sure you bring your E2 down before end of cycle.

longBallLima
01-06-2014, 05:37 PM
Jel, fountain of knowledge as always. E2 down by adding the ai on the last couple of weeks of the cycle?

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Jelisej
01-06-2014, 06:21 PM
Yes, thats right. Basically at atart and the end of PCT E2 should be same or lower than usually.
I always recommend aromasin/exemestane- especially in PCT as it does not rebound, and also it somewhat keeps SHBG from raising too high (clomid raises SHBG, aromasin lowers it a bit) so basically it somewhat counteract few clomids side-effects, and free test will be available bit faster and higher than without.

nate3993
01-06-2014, 11:25 PM
Question long. What were ur results? How'd you'd like test at 400 a week?

longBallLima
01-07-2014, 12:23 AM
Question long. What were ur results? How'd you'd like test at 400 a week?

i'd say i feel like it waas enough. growing at a decent pace. i'd like to progress my gear rather than jump in with a gram like some guys do, so i'd like to think it's part of a plan to maybe find the dosage where i'll be getting the best results.

being that i hadnt run cyp, which i hear may be a little rougher in causing sides and that it was pharma, i was confident that 400 was enough, but in my next ill probably run 600 and have a more educated response in how they differ

one thing this cycle is that my immune system went to shit. i was sick for almost half of it with one thing or another

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Yes, thats right. Basically at atart and the end of PCT E2 should be same or lower than usually.
I always recommend aromasin/exemestane- especially in PCT as it does not rebound, and also it somewhat keeps SHBG from raising too high (clomid raises SHBG, aromasin lowers it a bit) so basically it somewhat counteract few clomids side-effects, and free test will be available bit faster and higher than without.

great info!

now, any specific reason you'd recommend staying away from the peps during pct?

nate3993
01-07-2014, 12:33 AM
Good strength gains?


And I'm guessing he's referring to the possibility for the peps to raise your prolactin/ cortisol and either of those being raised wouldn't be good, but especially not in PCT.

Jelisej
01-07-2014, 05:49 AM
Yes, they do have an effect on endocrine system so they can slow down recovery, I dont have any bloods but I've heard complaints.
And in reality if done properly recovery will be swift, which is best way to save muscles- IMO the whole idea of peptides saving muscles is overblown, especially knowing that they speed up T4-T3 conversion, which is not bad thing- but not in PCT as if thyroid hormones are elevated and androgens low, it will backfire.

I mean, all that PCT thing is made for quick recovery in most simple and effective way, so its not that it will take you 6 months so you need "something".

longBallLima
01-07-2014, 11:36 AM
Yes, they do have an effect on endocrine system so they can slow down recovery, I dont have any bloods but I've heard complaints.
And in reality if done properly recovery will be swift, which is best way to save muscles- IMO the whole idea of peptides saving muscles is overblown, especially knowing that they speed up T4-T3 conversion, which is not bad thing- but not in PCT as if thyroid hormones are elevated and androgens low, it will backfire.

I mean, all that PCT thing is made for quick recovery in most simple and effective way, so its not that it will take you 6 months so you need "something".

Makes perfect sense. If anything I'll hit peps as a bridge of sorts

Thanks Jel!


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longBallLima
01-15-2014, 03:28 PM
Ok, this is gonna be a stupid question LOL

but i keep finding conflicting information about the active life on undecylenate. How many days after my last shot of EQ should i start my PCT?

Because im on Cyp, i plan to stop the EQ, 1 more week of cyp, switch it to prop and carry it to the end till 2 days before PCT. Does that make sense?

LOL thanks fellas

burlyman30
01-15-2014, 05:21 PM
Ok, this is gonna be a stupid question LOL

but i keep finding conflicting information about the active life on undecylenate. How many days after my last shot of EQ should i start my PCT?

Because im on Cyp, i plan to stop the EQ, 1 more week of cyp, switch it to prop and carry it to the end till 2 days before PCT. Does that make sense?

LOL thanks fellas

Depends somewhat on your dosage, since half-life keeps reducing. In other words, its going to take 1000/WK longer to exit the system as 500/WK.

Do the math... after 14 days, 500mg is 250, 14 more days and its 125, 14 more to get to 60, 14 more to get to 30. In this scenario, I would wait a bare minimum of 6 weeks, with 8 being smarter.

longBallLima
01-15-2014, 05:43 PM
Depends somewhat on your dosage, since half-life keeps reducing. In other words, its going to take 1000/WK longer to exit the system as 500/WK.

Do the math... after 14 days, 500mg is 250, 14 more days and its 125, 14 more to get to 60, 14 more to get to 30. In this scenario, I would wait a bare minimum of 6 weeks, with 8 being smarter.

hah thanks burly. im at 600. Being that its obviously UGL i always assume it to be underdosed. I knew, or thought i did, the half life to be 14 days. Do blood levels need to be at a 0 for my pct to be efficient or is there such a thing as low enough to start?

Everyone seems to start their EQ PCT 3 or 4 weeks after (like i said, keep finding conflicting info here), which would mean low but still some EQ in the system...

nate3993
01-15-2014, 07:05 PM
low levels is fine. clomid's a helluva drug

burlyman30
01-15-2014, 07:28 PM
hah thanks burly. im at 600. Being that its obviously UGL i always assume it to be underdosed. I knew, or thought i did, the half life to be 14 days. Do blood levels need to be at a 0 for my pct to be efficient or is there such a thing as low enough to start?

Everyone seems to start their EQ PCT 3 or 4 weeks after (like i said, keep finding conflicting info here), which would mean low but still some EQ in the system...

Last I read, half life was 14 days, although people do metabolize drugs at different rates, so that is a factor.

I don't think with a mild drug like EQ that blood levels would have to be zero. But they would need to be fairly low.

600 to 300 in 14 days to 150 at day 28 (too high for pct) to 75 (maybe here, but I wouldn't) at day 42 and 37mg (definitely by now) at day 56.

I understand what you are saying about conflicting advice, but at least you are here asking that question instead of ology or bb or EF. Chances are better that the advice is more sound here. Lol

longBallLima
01-16-2014, 04:03 AM
low levels is fine. clomid's a helluva drug

thanks nate mate :D


Last I read, half life was 14 days, although people do metabolize drugs at different rates, so that is a factor.

I don't think with a mild drug like EQ that blood levels would have to be zero. But they would need to be fairly low.

600 to 300 in 14 days to 150 at day 28 (too high for pct) to 75 (maybe here, but I wouldn't) at day 42 and 37mg (definitely by now) at day 56.

I understand what you are saying about conflicting advice, but at least you are here asking that question instead of ology or bb or EF. Chances are better that the advice is more sound here. Lol

makes perfect sense burly. i might plan to go 8 weeks then, doing extra cyp shots and then after than carrying on with the prop shots till pct starts


as always, thanks for the great knowledge, burly and fellas!