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VayneZ
04-29-2014, 02:21 PM
Psych's decided to lower the dose of my sleeping pills and eventually take me off of them.
Mind you I've been hooked for about 2 years and last time I just COULD NOT sleep unless I take my sleeping pill (zopiclon).

What do you guys do when you are forced by your mind to stay awake, no matter how tired your body is???
Need a backup plan so that I don't go mental

markam
04-29-2014, 02:31 PM
I hardly ever have a problem getting to sleep, but I get disturbed sometimes after five hours of sleep and I cannot survive on that.
I take 450 mgs Magnesium citrate powder with a fizzy orange vit c tab, and get another two hours sleep, no problem.
Works like a dream:)

Scope75
04-29-2014, 02:44 PM
I put on a podcast to keep me from thinking about wanting/needing to go to sleep and I eventually crash out.

Hank!
04-29-2014, 03:28 PM
When all else fails ..JO.. works for me everytime

ctAL
04-29-2014, 03:39 PM
cumming, either by yourself or phone a friend

markam
04-29-2014, 04:29 PM
Maybe a short course of hypnotism might break the sleep problem you've developed. Srs.

VayneZ
04-29-2014, 05:21 PM
Thanks for the ideas, might try podcasting.

Mark, I gotta see if I can find Magnesium Citrate powder over here and fizzy Vit C. Is there a specific brand you use? Would have to look around what's available over here. And as for hypnotism.. I doubt that would do me any good.

Tried some Binaural beats but that didn't do anything either

ryhigh
04-29-2014, 05:40 PM
Psych's decided to lower the dose of my sleeping pills and eventually take me off of them.
Mind you I've been hooked for about 2 years and last time I just COULD NOT sleep unless I take my sleeping pill (zopiclon).

What do you guys do when you are forced by your mind to stay awake, no matter how tired your body is???
Need a backup plan so that I don't go mental

I feel your pain bro. Ive been struggling with sleep issues for about 6 years. Tried everything OTC, all the other stuff like valerian and sleep products, and perscriptions such as Ambien, Lunesta up to Seroquel at very high doses which only helped about 25% of the time. Ive gone and seen specialists and what not also. For me lately at least it seems ive gotten things under control.

If im having a rough night I lay there and try to focus my thoughts on one event, anytime my mind wanders I calmly return to the original event which is a happy one. Normally this works, I have anxiety problems but this seems to calm me. Or I put on Pandora at a very low volume and listen to something mellow.

Is it stress or anxiety related?

VayneZ
04-29-2014, 08:08 PM
I feel your pain bro. Ive been struggling with sleep issues for about 6 years. Tried everything OTC, all the other stuff like valerian and sleep products, and perscriptions such as Ambien, Lunesta up to Seroquel at very high doses which only helped about 25% of the time. Ive gone and seen specialists and what not also. For me lately at least it seems ive gotten things under control.

If im having a rough night I lay there and try to focus my thoughts on one event, anytime my mind wanders I calmly return to the original event which is a happy one. Normally this works, I have anxiety problems but this seems to calm me. Or I put on Pandora at a very low volume and listen to something mellow.

Is it stress or anxiety related?

I remember you trying Oneiromancer. How did that work out for ya overall? I am also taking seroquel, but sticking at a low 25mg right now, as I feel that this low dose acts better as an antihestamine.. It works well with zopiclon. Without that combo... I just don't sleep!

(Funny thing is I was just reading this article about antihestamines degrading sleep quality: https://www.bcm.edu/news/sleep-disorders/experts-warn-against-antihistmaines-sleep-aid , not sure that's a fact since seroquel makes me dream so much deeper).

I've been suffering from insomnia since I can remember, due to my hyperactive mind that doesn't seem to shut down

VayneZ
04-29-2014, 08:11 PM
I feel your pain bro. Ive been struggling with sleep issues for about 6 years. Tried everything OTC, all the other stuff like valerian and sleep products, and perscriptions such as Ambien, Lunesta up to Seroquel at very high doses which only helped about 25% of the time. Ive gone and seen specialists and what not also. For me lately at least it seems ive gotten things under control.

If im having a rough night I lay there and try to focus my thoughts on one event, anytime my mind wanders I calmly return to the original event which is a happy one. Normally this works, I have anxiety problems but this seems to calm me. Or I put on Pandora at a very low volume and listen to something mellow.

Is it stress or anxiety related?

I remember you trying Oneiromancer. How did that work out for ya overall? I am also taking seroquel, but sticking at a low 25mg right now, as I feel that this low dose acts better as an antihestamine.. It works well with zopiclon. Without that combo... I just don't sleep!

(Funny thing is I was just reading this article about antihestamines degrading sleep quality: https://www.bcm.edu/news/sleep-disorders/experts-warn-against-antihistmaines-sleep-aid , not sure that's a fact since seroquel makes me dream so much deeper).

I've been suffering from insomnia since I can remember, due to my hyperactive mind that doesn't seem to shut down

O.N.
04-29-2014, 08:16 PM
You should book in to see a sleep physiologist

Additionally best natural supplement i have used is fusion shut eye, contains seditol, proprietary blend that was used in a human trial of 300 people all suffering insomnia.

ryhigh
04-29-2014, 08:30 PM
At my worse I was up to 350mg a night of Seroquel, glad that's over. I loved Oneiromancer the sleep and dreams were awesome it didn't really help me fall asleep per say but slept well once I was asleep. The weirdest thing is I still have dreams similar to when I was using Oneiromancer, lucid and crazy. I really followed the whole control your dreams talked about on the write up and have become very good at that since. Idk if that's the reason for my dreams still or what but its been about 9 months since I took Oneiromancer and tihngs are still better. I want to do another run to see what happens

O_RYAN_007
04-29-2014, 08:43 PM
vaporized THC!

ryhigh
04-29-2014, 08:46 PM
Lol my volcano does relax me a bit but since I was in HS herb hasn't put me to sleep. Now some edibles we make that's a different story, however that's more like a weed-induced coma haha

Rodja
04-29-2014, 09:03 PM
vaporized THC!

This on so many levels. That and it takes carb backloading to a another level.

ryhigh
04-29-2014, 10:07 PM
This on so many levels. That and it takes carb backloading to a another level.

10tf party bag to the head and two dozen oreos

hossam
04-29-2014, 11:19 PM
Ashwagandha (http://www.himalayausa.com/products/pureherbs/ashwagandha.htm)
helps for sleeping and boosting testosterone
Source Naturals Zembrin contains KANA a very effective mode support

nate3993
04-30-2014, 12:26 AM
Phenibut WILL work. No doubt. Problem is.....way easy to get addicted.

O.N.
04-30-2014, 06:11 AM
have a read here of the seditol found in shut eye study: http://www.nextpharmaceuticals.com/stage/pdfs/Seditol_Open-Label_Trial.pdf (http://www.nextpharmaceuticals.com/stage/pdfs/Seditol_Open-Label_Trial.pdf)

Subjects: Two hundred ninety five (295) volunteers with mild to moderate sleep
difficulties who came to the Metabolic Institute seeking relief from sleep difficulties.

Results: the product was considered relaxing by 86.9%, assisting
in a restful sleep by 82.8% and effective in reducing fatigue due to lack of sleep by
82.8%.

VayneZ
04-30-2014, 01:25 PM
O.N. , Randal, Rodja, Ry, hossam and Nate, THANKS!

O.N. , Seditol seems pretty interesting. Will have to see if I can find some here on the Island or try to find Fusion Shut Eye.

Ry, I got some Oneiromancer leftovers, but as you said, doesn't really help ''falling asleep'' in my case either.

Rodja and Randal, that is indeed a solid idea, back in my THC days I used to sleep wayyyy better. Maybe if I still lived in an apartment by myself that would've been an awesome idea.

Nate, I have used products containing phenibut in a proprietary blend of ingredients, never as a stand alone. What's a good dose to try by itself? I'll see if I can find some and try that also.

And Hossam, I'll read up on the Ashwagandha as soon as I get home from work, sounds interesting.

Thanks again for the tips guys! The SS crew are always loaded with good ideas

nate3993
04-30-2014, 01:34 PM
Liftmode phenibut is gonna be the best. Super cheap. 1 gram will get you results. You could prolly use less, but eh, start with a gram.

Hank!
04-30-2014, 05:52 PM
Liftmode phenibut is gonna be the best. Super cheap. 1 gram will get you results. You could prolly use less, but eh, start with a gram.

+1 on this.
however do take care. I did about 2.5 grams last week and literally felt like I was on Valium..all the next day.

VayneZ
04-30-2014, 06:16 PM
Liftmode phenibut is gonna be the best. Super cheap. 1 gram will get you results. You could prolly use less, but eh, start with a gram.

This looks awesome! Don't think they sell it around here, but as soon as I get a chance to hit the States I'll get the 500gram one for sure.
This will be on my ''to buy list''

markam
05-01-2014, 02:14 AM
But aren't you just swapping a prescription drug for a otc drug (that may well become prescription)?

I would try to slowly reduce the dosage of what you're presently on, and use some mag cit when you wake up. I think Magnesium lowers cortisol which is why it helps sleep. ZMA (zinc mag and B6) is popular and much more expensive than bulk mag cit, and mag cit works fine, but must be taken on a empty stomach.
Phenibut at 500mgs works well for me and at 1g, it really knocks me out. Very addictive and I think a tolerance builds up quickly. I'd only use it twice a week, max.

The purpose of this is to get off sleep meds, not use different ones, yes?

Edit..... I've also used USPlabs Powerful which works well, but I recently tried 2 caps of BPS Endosurge Turbo (contains Macuna, vit D, nettle root), and that worked just as well, and had wood in the morning! Endosurge Turbo works out a lot cheaper than USP Powerful, BTW. (I only dose if I wake up in the night)

VayneZ
05-01-2014, 10:46 AM
But aren't you just swapping a prescription drug for a otc drug (that may well become prescription)?

I would try to slowly reduce the dosage of what you're presently on, and use some mag cit when you wake up. I think Magnesium lowers cortisol which is why it helps sleep. ZMA (zinc mag and B6) is popular and much more expensive than bulk mag cit, and mag cit works fine, but must be taken on a empty stomach.
Phenibut at 500mgs works well for me and at 1g, it really knocks me out. Very addictive and I think a tolerance builds up quickly. I'd only use it twice a week, max.

The purpose of this is to get off sleep meds, not use different ones, yes?

Edit..... I've also used USPlabs Powerful which works well, but I recently tried 2 caps of BPS Endosurge Turbo (contains Macuna, vit D, nettle root), and that worked just as well, and had wood in the morning! Endosurge Turbo works out a lot cheaper than USP Powerful, BTW. (I only dose if I wake up in the night)

Mark, the most important thing for me is sleep. For 2 years everytime I tried sleeping without these prescription drugs, I just would not fall asleep. The reason I want to come off of them as well is because of the many annoying side-effects they have, and I hate being under the mercy and dependency of a psychiatrist (especially over here where I live we don't have many options).

If I can become completely independent of sleep aids, even OTC, would be the greatest thing I could ask for. And that is my long term goal, but I just can't see that happening anytime soon. So I'm gradually trying to wean off of these meds and find something that would still help me sleep so I can keep up with my routine.

I'm looking around to see if I can get some Mag Cit and the fizzy vit C. Also looking for Seditol and Phenibut. I read the same thing, that using Phenibut more than twice a week would build tolerance, so if I find it I will dose it on my 2 carb days, since those days are the hardest to sleep (need at least 2 or 3 zopiclon pills @ 22.5mg or else I can't seem to dose off).

I also heard great things about USP Powerful. I'll look into Endosurge turbo also! Thanks for the advise bro! I really appreciate all this help. Loaded with options to look into!

ryhigh
05-02-2014, 05:31 PM
I would really look into different ways to calm, control your mind before sleep if youre having a rough night. Not quite meditation like but different ways to relax your mind and thoughts. Its really helped me out a lot.

Try counting reps instead of sheep haha

Jelisej
05-02-2014, 06:20 PM
VayneZ, I dont really know what is underlying cause of your sleeplesness, but IMO sleeps aids wheter prescribed or OTC always have sides- especially long term.
I've got a feeling that you have neurotransmitter imbalance, perhaps your norephinephrine (which is basically adrenaline) is to high, and adrenaline duty is to keep you awake. So basically best way would be to find and deal with underlying causes- which may be stress both mentally or physically (inc overtraining), adrenal fatigue and stimulant use, seating in front of computer late (light from screen and your activity signals brain to lower melatonin as you brain thinks you have things to do), try not to eat close to bedtime or drink water before bed (you need to hydrate yourself on time), avoid exercising or any strain for 2 hrs before sleep time.
Bedroom is not meant to have electrical equipment in it, also it should be dark.... Dont go to bed for sake of it- if you feel their is no way to fall asleep going to bed will make it worse as you will start thinking too much, tossing and turning- and when that happens; well- it will be another long, sleepless night.
As Ryhigh suggested, you need to find your own relaxing technique. For example try to visualise something relaxing or something that you like, for example you can try to visualise space shuttle, how it should look etc.... or submarine.... count flowers on green meadow :) whatever
And as Markam said do use magnesium and few other bits.
And most important is to work on your mental side or how to put it- basically I feel that there are still some things from past that drags you down- you are strong guy and you can deal with it, only it takes time.... Sometimes on the way you need to work with "shrinks".

BTW- best activity before sleep for me is- reading book, if I dont feel like it then I watch TV-shows, one or two episodes, just to relax my mind, take focus out of "real life" and takes mind off stressfull toughts, otherwise in my case when mind starts working there is no way stopping it and there is no sleep even if I take lot of sedatives.

VayneZ
05-02-2014, 07:04 PM
Ryhigh good point! I'll make sure to apply that principle little by little.

And Jelisej, wow man! Def the best advise I've received thus far! I do believe my mind's adrenaline is way too high throughout the day. And I have way too much ''mindpower'' in ANY thing I do. I'm the kind of person that just won't give up or give in mentally.. And I guess the bad side effect of that is that because my mind is so strong, it does not QUIET DOWN when I want to dose off in to sleep.

The less water before bedtime seems to be treating me better. And I've slept alright these last 3 days on half dosage of zopiclon. This morning however I woke up MAD STARVING around 4am, and was to hungry to fall back to sleep. Hunger is just killing me these days because of the lower cals 5 days a week. I could not find any magnesium powder around here though, but I did find 250mg tabs. I believe taking 1 before bedtime, and 1 if I wake up once a night would be a good plan right?

Jel, I'll take your advise and try to ease out and read something ''out of this real crazy life'' before I sleep! Thanks very much for the advise!! Really appreciate it bro

Jelisej
05-02-2014, 07:35 PM
As for waking up in morning because of hunger- that is common, sometimes it is plainly because of hunger, but sometimes if cortisol is low what happens is that sugar drops as well ( what often happens is that person wakes up covered in sweat) so body sense danger and responds by pumping in (usual suspect) adrenalin- basically message that brain sends is "go and find food", it is evolutionary thing I would say. The best way to deal with this is to eat type of food that keeps sugar level stable, like protein- steak is ok :) and you would still lose some weight.
Also to add to previous message- if norepinephrine is too high (for whatever reason) you will also have a "shallow" sleep, I'm not usre how to describe it- that happens to me sometimes, and what I do is I ease a bit on training for day or two, or sometimes even use sleeping pills for night or two, and after that usually I return to normal.

VayneZ
05-02-2014, 07:53 PM
Jel, how did you get so smart my friend??? :)

I have been sleeping with the fan on these days, instead of the AC since I feel the noise of the fan and the higher temperature helps me sleep better. But yeah, I often wake up sweating. Are almonds a wise choice to eat at night? I used to keep a ziplock next to my bed just in case I wake up hungry, but stopped that because of the lower cals routine. They're just so easy to snack on and then head back to sleep (if possible), but then again, not sure if it's a good idea.

And yeah, what I do is I take my full dosage of sleep medication twice a week, my high carb days, since I consumed so much starch throughout the day, and it's usually these days that I wake up often during the night.

Maybe the Magnesium would help me with the cortisol issues tonight. I'll be crashing in an hour or so so let's see!

markam
05-02-2014, 08:18 PM
450mgs Magnesium is the dosage usually in ZMA, maybe buy that instead. I just use bulk mag cit powder and weigh it. I guess the powder also works quicker as well. Surely you must be able to buy it somewhere?

Sperwer
05-02-2014, 08:37 PM
I sleep, but terribly. Sleep is very shallow and dominated by restless, wakeful dreaming. This has been going on for months.

I also have a bad case of nocturia. On a good night i get up three times to drain the snake; on a bad might 6-7. This is clearly a function of BPH - although my PSA number is low normal and scans show only a relatively small physical enlargement of the prostate. The only saving grace of the nocturia is that getting up lets me out of whatever dream is playing and changes the channel.

Talked to my endo about it yesterday. He said that the fundamental problem is the nocturia, so he recommended addressing that first and noting the sleep effect. He wanted me to take Proscar for the prostate, but i waved that off. After thinking about it a bit, he decided on Tamsulosin, which has the added advantage of lowering BP, thus obviating the need to up the dosage of my angiotensin receptor blocker, Cozar.

I took the first dose last night after dinner. Worked great. I didn't have to get up at all, didn't experience any urges and thus got about the only uninterrupted 8 hours of sleep in a year. Dream volume also was dialed down significantly. Will go with the flow for a couple days to see if sleep quality continues to improve. If not. The plan, per doc, is to add a blast of magnesium cit and B6 an hour or so before bed. Mag cit can be had in bulk from Bulk Supplements., direct or via Amazon.

Has anyone else had any experience with Tamulosin? I'd be interested to get additional input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VayneZ
05-02-2014, 08:54 PM
Sperwer and I thought I had it bad! 6-7 times wow! My worse nights are 3 tops, but since the water reduction it's only once now. Read a bit on Nocturia, it says: ''Patients with severe nocturia may get up five or six times during the night to go to the bathroom.'' Maybe you have it severely.

Mark, if you ever come on a vacation to Aruba, make sure you bring all your supps and vitamins lol. The 2 years I lived in Miami, it was like heaven. Every supps imaginable. Just click a few pages and they deliver to your door, and SUPER cheap compare to the prices here. Everywhere I checked I could only find the tabs and they only have Magnesium Oxide and Gluconate mix in 250mg tab form so I bought that since it was relatively cheap and could not find citrate anywhere else. I should probably take only 1 tab before I sleep right?, since I've read that 400mg of Oxide would be too much. If I knew it was the same magnesium in basic ZMA, I would've just bought some ZMA.

I think I'll buy some ZMA soon, it's been months since I've last used it.

markam
05-03-2014, 10:26 AM
Thing is, anything that I take to help me sleep crashes me for four or five hours (as I'm already tired, anyway).
But taking 1mg melatonin or 450mgs Magnesium, or some L-Dopa will easily let me sleep for a few more hours.
Taurine at 5-6 gms also works.

I tend to alternate sups every few weeks, so maybe a tolerance doesn't build up. Don't know really, but it works great for me.

BTW As you know, I work nights 5 days a week, and sleep has been a real problem in the past. I hate feeling the whole day is compromised because of a bad night's sleep. Anyway, I get enough sleep now.

Also, I really rate BPS Endosurge as a sleep supp when used in the middle of the night. It's also a great test booster, so win win.
However, it contains Macuna Pruriens (L-Dopa), so I would take at least 4 weeks off after using it for 6 weeks, as I've read that longer term use of L-Dopa isn't great.

I never take sleep aids when I go to bed, just when I wake up too early.

VayneZ
05-03-2014, 11:11 AM
Hey yeah how are the jams going? You still working fulltime as a musician right? I will look around for BPS Endosurge and if they don't have it I might see if they can order it. Looks really awesome.

So if I have 3mg Melotonin tabs, try breaking them in 2 or 3 pieces?

oh and btw Nate, I found someone to order some Phenibut HCI for me!! So Looking forward to trying it out as soon as it's here. And at one of the pharmacies they are expecting some Seditol from Source Naturals. So... gotta wait, but I have some nice things to look forward to now :)

markam
05-03-2014, 01:17 PM
Hey yeah how are the jams going? You still working fulltime as a musician right? I will look around for BPS Endosurge and if they don't have it I might see if they can order it. Looks really awesome.

So if I have 3mg Melotonin tabs, try breaking them in 2 or 3 pieces?

oh and btw Nate, I found someone to order some Phenibut HCI for me!! So Looking forward to trying it out as soon as it's here. And at one of the pharmacies they are expecting some Seditol from Source Naturals. So... gotta wait, but I have some nice things to look forward to now :)

Jams? LOL I only play when I get paid. Sad but true:)
Research says that .5mgs can be just effective to a higher dose, and I have found that to be true.

Maybe I'll post a link to me playing so you can see how uncool I am :)

BTW Watch out for Phenibut, it works so good then literally bites you in the butt!

burlyman30
05-03-2014, 02:10 PM
Jams? LOL I only play when I get paid. Sad but true:)

Maybe I'll post a link to me playing so you can see how uncool I am :)



I'd be interested in this.

markam
05-03-2014, 02:28 PM
Any requests:)

Think American songbook.

Anything for the guy in the pink briefs:)


(No homo) LOL

BTW I have to say that I really like this forum - It's seems to have a very genuine edge of honesty and truth to it. I'm humbled by the achievements by most of the guys here, hey I didn't get into this until I was way into my 40's, but it's been a great learning process, and totally worthwhile.

In case your interested, I never trained seriously until I was in my 40's, but maybe I have good genes: I'm one of those guys who appears to be much younger. LOL. I reckon this has more to do with the fact that I'm a selfish SOB that does what he wants, but who knows.

Anyway, If you're ever in london, Hit me up.

burlyman30
05-03-2014, 02:50 PM
Any requests:)

Think American songbook.

Anything for the guy in the pink briefs:)


(No homo) LOL

Haha. The guy in the pink briefs may die, but the jokes never will.

Hmm. You've played with a lot of bands... I like some of the late 70s early 80s stuff like Journey, Foreigner, any Sammy Hagar stuff, Van Halen, etc.

markam
05-03-2014, 02:53 PM
You're that old???

- - - Updated - - -

Waiting:)

markam
05-03-2014, 03:01 PM
TMI

Edit. OK, for the record I was active in the UK music scene 70-80's but I mainly play jazz now.
I'll post a link.

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 03:19 PM
Lol why did you edit your post?? That's awesome bro, id be proud as hell if I have a chance to work with one of those artists, let alone all of them. Ill keep you in mind if I ever get married ill higher you for my wedding haha

markam
05-03-2014, 03:30 PM
Hope your wife's hot LOL

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 03:31 PM
Haha if that helps me out with a discount

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 03:41 PM
1159


This what comes to mind when you said 70's and UK lol

burlyman30
05-03-2014, 03:44 PM
You're that old???

- - - Updated - - -

Waiting:)

Haha.

markam
05-03-2014, 03:47 PM
Haha if that helps me out with a discount

Absolutely. I should warn you that it's a Big Band:)

SRS, I edited the post as it wasn't really relevant to the forum, but appreciate your interest.
I feel that I have as much energy now, even though I'm in my 50's WTF

The right diet, training, sups, makes a hell of a difference, believe me.

Age IS a number. Age is Wisdom, ask Sperwer!

burlyman30
05-03-2014, 03:48 PM
TMI

Edit. OK, for the record I was active in the UK music scene 70-80's but I mainly play jazz now.
I'll post a link.

Jazz.. hmmm I don't even know any jazz bands... unless Steely Dan qualifies.

markam
05-03-2014, 03:56 PM
1159


This what comes to mind when you said 70's and UK lol

Yep, makes me sad.

Get back to pumping that muscle!

markam
05-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Jazz.. hmmm I don't even know any jazz bands... unless Steely Dan qualifies.

Useless info. Did you know that Steely dan was a a reference to a dildo in a William Boroughs book? Probably, LOL

- - - Updated - - -

Jeez, even Bach did Jazz until it was unfashionable,


That's how hip I am :)

EDIT Seriously, hit me up if your in the UK and I can recommend you a good place to go. I might even be there, maybe:)

markam
05-03-2014, 04:13 PM
Ok, due to unpopular demand I might just record something really boring. Maybe you can floss your teeth to it, or wonder
whether you should take your aminoes before or after training!

Don't hold your breath:)

EDIT

Still waiting for requests, maybe pretty in pink (psychedelic furs) Burly? LOL
C'mon, Georgia, Autumn Leaves, All the things you are, Stella - _ I'll trash the fck
out of them - well for you guys, anyways:)

burlyman30
05-03-2014, 04:56 PM
Ok, due to unpopular demand I might just record something really boring. Maybe you can floss your teeth to it, or wonder
whether you should take your aminoes before or after training!

Don't hold your breath:)

EDIT

Still waiting for requests, maybe pretty in pink (psychedelic furs) Burly? LOL
C'mon, Georgia, Autumn Leaves, All the things you are, Stella - _ I'll trash the fck
out of them - well for you guys, anyways:)

Pretty in pink. Lol. Awesome. Too bad I've never heard of any of those songs. Lol

VayneZ
05-03-2014, 05:18 PM
What the hell is going on with my thread?
One minute we are talking about melatonin and then about Jazz bands!!

Play something out of blue green!!! Love me some good ol Miles stuff

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 05:25 PM
Haha Jazz hands... Yeah none of those songs are sounding familiar to me, but maybe if I here them ill recognize them.

This thread is now about different jazz songs to help Vaynez fall asleep at night and hug his pillow

VayneZ
05-03-2014, 05:36 PM
Haha Jazz hands... Yeah none of those songs are sounding familiar to me, but maybe if I here them ill recognize them.

This thread is now about different jazz songs to help Vaynez fall asleep at night and hug his pillow

Maybe if Mark pulls of some nice cool jazz, I might sleep like a baybayyy!!

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 05:41 PM
1160

This is him playing his Jazz flute

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 05:45 PM
1161

hahaha I love that movie





On a serious note what songs did you work with Dramarama on? That's really cool

markam
05-03-2014, 06:20 PM
Laterzzz

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 06:26 PM
Lol im joking around man :D

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 06:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE&feature=player_detailpage

VayneZ
05-03-2014, 06:40 PM
Maybe I should not have mentioned the Blue in Green thing :(

Or, maybe because it's late now in London. Can't sleep too late!! Remember this thread IS about sleeping.. And I know you need your sleep Mark. Hit your HIIT fasted cardio early in the morning and kick start Sunday all hardcore! :cool:

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 06:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKbpLQp509Y&feature=player_detailpage

VayneZ
05-03-2014, 06:54 PM
Ry, Thanks for bringing my thread back to its senses! If only Mark was still here though, that clip might have helped him to have an even deeper sleep than Magnesium Cit would!!!

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 06:57 PM
Lol my bad, I have a tendency to get off track sometimes

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:10 PM
A couple months back a buddy of mine came out to Vegas to stay the weekend with me. We can back late from the strip and couldn't fall asleep. He had this app on his phone. It had various sounds and vibrations, I must say it made us both fall asleep after about 15 min. I completely forgot about it. im going to download it and try it on my next restless night and see if I get similar results


Ambiance on the App Store on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/US/app/id285538312?mt=8)

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qD_TAcz0E&feature=player_detailpage

I went to a sleep specialist when I was younger and they gave me some CD's similar to this, It kind of works. But it can also be pretty annoying after a while if you still can fall asleep. I cant be hypnotized, 3 different hypnotist have tried but to no avail. But for some this kind of stuff actually works pretty successfully

Jelisej
05-03-2014, 07:27 PM
Why Does Sex Make Men Sleepy? | Mental Floss (http://mentalfloss.com/article/24823/why-does-sex-make-men-sleepy)


Vayne, I can recognise you here: White Noise and Your Brain: The Science of Sound Machines | Apartment Therapy (http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/sleep-better-the-science-of-sound-machines-168208)

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:29 PM
Cause it can be a lot of work man.


On a side note this song makes me fall asleep to, idk why, Kinda creepy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_bOh9OIHbY&feature=player_detailpage

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:33 PM
This gets me ready for breakfast lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Graa_Vm5eA&feature=player_detailpage

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:39 PM
This on the way to the gym


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t32x-jI7_js&feature=player_detailpage

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 07:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O51Hs41-LQ8

and then on the way home from the gym. Soundtrack of my day

Jelisej
05-03-2014, 07:44 PM
Sperwer, As for BPH, I was wondering if your E2 (or free E2) is high, as usually lowering E2 improves symptoms- another thing that comes into my mind is- progesterone, one of its jobs is that keeps both E2 and DHT in check and lot of people on HRT boost progesterone as it protects prostate, and it has a bit of calming effect and it promotes sleep somewhat- tough supplementing prog can be difficult, but is an option as you use topical testostosterone which converts a lot to DHT so you should still plenty of it left.

Another thing that crosses my mind id: did you ever test your potassium levels, and sodium? I have a hunch that something may happening in aldosterone-potassium connection?

ryhigh
05-03-2014, 08:20 PM
Leg day song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8clGuSJLP5w&list=RDAx07muLvG7c&feature=player_detailpage




woooopsiee I did it again Sorry vaynez

Sperwer
05-03-2014, 08:38 PM
Sperwer, As for BPH, I was wondering if your E2 (or free E2) is high, as usually lowering E2 improves symptoms- another thing that comes into my mind is- progesterone, one of its jobs is that keeps both E2 and DHT in check and lot of people on HRT boost progesterone as it protects prostate, and it has a bit of calming effect and it promotes sleep somewhat- tough supplementing prog can be difficult, but is an option as you use topical testostosterone which converts a lot to DHT so you should still plenty of it left.

Another thing that crosses my mind id: did you ever test your potassium levels, and sodium? I have a hunch that something may happening in aldosterone-potassium connection?

Thanks for the leads J. I do tend to have high E2, though I try to keep it in check. Never have had potassium/sodium checked. will do so next blood draw. Thanks.

In the meantime, had a second dose of Tamulosin last night, and it worked great - 9 hours of uninterrupted sleep and significantly less disruptive dreams.

Sperwer
05-03-2014, 08:42 PM
Absolutely. I should warn you that it's a Big Band:)

SRS, I edited the post as it wasn't really relevant to the forum, but appreciate your interest.
I feel that I have as much energy now, even though I'm in my 50's WTF

The right diet, training, sups, makes a hell of a difference, believe me.

Age IS a number. Age is Wisdom, ask Sperwer!

Yes, but when the trouser trout is frisky, Age can also still be a dick. ;)

markam
05-04-2014, 08:25 AM
Yes, but when the trouser trout is frisky, Age can also still be a dick. ;)

Would I cheat on my wife?

Absolutely not!

I love my house too much:)

burlyman30
05-04-2014, 10:19 AM
Would I cheat on my wife?

Absolutely not!

I love my house too much:)

Lol. If you think having a wife is expensive, try getting rid of one. I have nearly 22 years into "asset protection" so far.

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 12:19 PM
Lol. If you think having a wife is expensive, try getting rid of one. I have nearly 22 years into "asset protection" so far.

I hope this never happens to me and I hate the fact I have to have that idea in the back of my head. However, I set up a trust protecting all my assets and its flexible to where I can include futures assets and property even if im married and she cant get a penny out of it. Ive seen friends of mine have shady things happen to them already, and were still so young. If I were to get married then divorced I would pay my due diligence but some females do what they need to and take more than what is rightfully there's.. Oh well

markam
05-04-2014, 01:53 PM
Love the trust, guys.

The answer is to make sure the wife is richer than you. Doesn't always feel good, but you can't have everything:)

VayneZ
05-04-2014, 01:54 PM
Been a long awhile since I last listened to Thrice and refused.

Jel, interesting articles. Both of them actually.

markam
05-04-2014, 02:00 PM
And this is about sleep, LOL.

Luv the way this thread has been derailed.

I'm going to record me playing 'Blue in green' for you guys.

You do realise that Miles took the credit for writing Blue in Green,Solar and Nardis?

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 02:01 PM
Been a long awhile since I last listened to Thrice and refused.

Jel, interesting articles. Both of them actually.

Me either, I forgot about them for a couple years till I found my old ipod.

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 02:07 PM
And this is about sleep, LOL.

Luv the way this thread has been derailed.

I'm going to record me playing 'Blue in green' for you guys.

You do realise that Miles took the credit for writing Blue in Green,Solar and Nardis?

I need to do some googling on this so I know what it is you're going to play. I feel so young idk what you are talking about

markam
05-04-2014, 02:12 PM
I need to do some googling on this so I know what it is you're going to play. I feel so young idk what you are talking about

OK. Miles Davis was arguably the most influential Jazz musician ever. Listen to 'Kind of Blue' It's considered to be a masterpiece.

I have no problem with people not liking Jazz, but it is a art form, and should be respected.

And it's American:)

I'm going to post a video of me playing Blue and green, just hope I do it some sort of justice.

BTW No ones that young, that's just a feeling you get over:)

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 02:21 PM
Haha I should clarify, I do know who Miles Davis is and I have no issues with Jazz just not familiar with it. And im not much of an American, I only live here for our amazing judicial system as well as healthcare. hahaha. I am young though, but its cool in a year I can legally rent a car, lower my issuance, and be 1/4 of a century old, happy days to comeee

burlyman30
05-04-2014, 02:50 PM
Love the trust, guys.

The answer is to make sure the wife is richer than you. Doesn't always feel good, but you can't have everything:)

Haha. I had a female coworker years ago who said "marry the first time for love, and the second time for money.". Haha.

When my wife and I married, she had a good job already and I was just getting started in life. Now, my business and investments exceed her wages. But it was never a mine vs hers scenario.

Don't get me wrong with some if the statements I've made previously... we are in it for the long haul. We've experienced "for better, for worse" and "for richer or poorer" already. Multiple times, actually. And we tend to come through hard times and are better off as we get through them.

In the end it really comes down to strength of commitment. I may want to kill her, but not divorce her. I think you married guys will understand this. Especially you long-term guys.

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 03:01 PM
I completely understand what you are saying, and I agree. I myself, whenever the time may come will only commit to a marriage if I have the mindset on making it last, and doing my part to make it. Being that finances can be a major issues couple fight/stress/divorces over, I guess I have the mindset, lets just take that out of the way before hand, and know that no matter what any future ryhigh's and my nephews will be taken care of despite any personal relationships. Lol I may be wrong, but atleast I have the option to make changes on my trust if my opinion changes. I guess I wont ever know till the time comes where my opinions become tested.

markam
05-04-2014, 03:07 PM
Yep. A marriage cannot be based on money, unless she is stinking rich:)

But seriously, this can be a real problem if you have a bit of money. You need to be careful.

- - - Updated - - -


I completely understand what you are saying, and I agree. I myself, whenever the time may come will only commit to a marriage if I have the mindset on making it last, and doing my part to make it. Being that finances can be a major issues couple fight/stress/divorces over, I guess I have the mindset, lets just take that out of the way before hand, and know that no matter what any future ryhigh's and my nephews will be taken care of despite any personal relationships. Lol I may be wrong, but atleast I have the option to make changes on my trust if my opinion changes. I guess I wont ever know till the time comes where my opinions become tested.

Too complicated. Just make sure she has more to lose than you:)

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 03:12 PM
Yep. A marriage cannot be based on money, unless she is stinking rich:)

But seriously, this can be a real problem if you have a bit of money. You need to be careful.

I'm just trying to protect my security blanket that will allow me to know that I can retire happy, healthy, and securely knowing that I wont run out of my retirement funds no matter what expenses may come up.

I see so many people who retire, think they are set financially, things come up i.e medical expenses, living costs, and so forth and end up having to come out of retirement and go back to work. A lot of companies these days are getting around paying pensions, and other retirement wages by hiring younger workers.

I want to sit on my porch, sipping my whiskey, a happy hairy old man lol.

- - - Updated - - -

anywhoooo im ready to be jazzified :D

markam
05-04-2014, 03:29 PM
I'm just trying to protect my security blanket that will allow me to know that I can retire happy, healthy, and securely knowing that I wont run out of my retirement funds no matter what expenses may come up.

I see so many people who retire, think they are set financially, things come up i.e medical expenses, living costs, and so forth and end up having to come out of retirement and go back to work. A lot of companies these days are getting around paying pensions, and other retirement wages by hiring younger workers.

I want to sit on my porch, sipping my whiskey, a happy hairy old man lol.

- - - Updated - - -

anywhoooo I'm ready to be jazzified :D

Great in theory, but you have to live for today!

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 03:31 PM
True that. Alright SS members send me your info were all flying to the UK to see a live concert from Markam :cool:

markam
05-04-2014, 03:34 PM
True that. Alright SS members send me your info were all flying to the UK to see a live concert from Markam :cool:

LOL - You don't want to do that:) I'll post a lil vid soon, that'll send you all to sleep:)

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 03:36 PM
Send us all to sleep, or create a huge board full of groupies, that wear shirts and hang up posters with you on them!

markam
05-04-2014, 03:40 PM
Send us all to sleep, or create a huge board full of groupies, that wear shirts and hang up posters with you on them!

Groupies were fun in the 70's. Couldn't have that much fun now!

ryhigh
05-04-2014, 03:40 PM
I guess people are lazy these days. How about we interwebz stalk you?

VayneZ
05-04-2014, 07:32 PM
Back to the "Jazz'' part of this ''cannot sleep help'' thread.
Miles Davis was one cocky, arrogant, impatient, smartass, genius and mastermind artist. But whatever people say about his character... You can't help but let his music get to you.

Looking forward for that Blue in green now!!! :cool:

markam
05-05-2014, 02:50 AM
Ok. Won't be able to record anything for a couple of days as things are hectic, but def will do it this week.

studog
05-05-2014, 10:24 PM
Single malt scotch, works for me.

markam
05-06-2014, 08:21 AM
A bit rough as I haven't played for three days, still, no more excuses:)

Mark - Blue in Green for VayneZ.mp3 - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzvQZ-eoH5_VSUQ2eEJ1WlNoOWc/edit?usp=sharing)

Download only unless I can upload it to SS.

weekend
05-06-2014, 11:32 AM
Sweet

ryhigh
05-06-2014, 12:50 PM
That's pretty fkn badass! Awesome skills man!

VayneZ
05-06-2014, 07:56 PM
Not bad not bad. In fact not bad at all! I feel that cool jazz feeling in ya! This brings back too many memories since I have not listened to any of Miles for awhile.
Mark, awesome that you actually recorded it! I think this might actually have me sleeping well this whole week :D !!

If I'm ever in London find me a bass and a good amp and we'll jam my friend!!!

KAB111
05-07-2014, 04:57 AM
We'll done!!! Sounded excellent. Got some great skills man!

ryhigh
05-07-2014, 08:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MtN1YnoL46Q

This might help

ryhigh
05-07-2014, 08:19 PM
or possibly the word. What is the word you ask.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2WNrx2jq184

markam
05-08-2014, 02:02 AM
Thanks for the comments, guys.

How's sleep now, VayneZ?

Cdsnuts
05-08-2014, 06:11 AM
What other forum would you get someone composing a lullaby for you after you post a "can't sleep" thread.....lol

VayneZ
05-08-2014, 06:39 AM
Thanks for the comments, guys.

How's sleep now, VayneZ?

Sleep's been good on some days. Other days, like last night was horrible. Had to break a zopi pill in half and wait it out to kick in so I could fall back asleep. But, most of the days been able to sleep with half the dosage. Also taking 250mg of Magnesium, 1.5mg of Melatonin and Saw P before bed. So far so good. Started back on my ECA stack this week, but only first thing in the morning. Today I'll try a dose pre-workout see if it effects my sleep.


What other forum would you get someone composing a lullaby for you after you post a "can't sleep" thread.....lol

Man! FA REAL!!! Since I slept so good Tuesday night, Imma listen to Mark's piano version of Blue in Green again. Especially since today is my MAD SUGAR FRENZY day :cool:

VayneZ
06-01-2014, 06:34 PM
Reviving the old sleep thread again!!!!! :)

Finally got my Phenibut! Nate, Mark or any of you experts, I should start with 2 scoops of the 1/8th Teaspoon Scoop correct? (I think it's supposed to measure 500 grams, it's really tiny). 2 tiny scoops = 1 grams? I got the 200 gram one. Will try it tomorrow before bed (Weak-body part workout day).

nate3993
06-01-2014, 10:24 PM
I think it's 250mg.....do 4 though. Empty stomach

VayneZ
06-02-2014, 04:29 AM
This is the one I have Nate:
Phenibut HCl (Crystals) - 200 Grams (7.05 Oz) - 99.5+% Pure - FBLM (https://liftmode.com/phenibut-crystal-granules-200-grams-7-05-oz-99-8-pure.html)

And I think 1/8 tsp = 0.5 grams. Not 100% sure. Just afraid to hit 2 grams my first night (4 scoops) lol.

It came with a card that says:
Clear 0.625cc = 1/8th Teaspoon Scoop which measures approx:
250 - 400 mg (for powders similar to flour)
400 - 600 mg (crystals similar to sugar)

Cdsnuts
06-02-2014, 05:51 AM
Start out with the recommended dose to assess tolerance. You want to take the lowest amount that gives you results. And whatever you do, don't dose this stuff more then twice a week. You will develop a tolerance and coming off phenibut is no picnic.

WesleyInman
06-02-2014, 09:09 AM
Cool thread..seriously the best forum ever...

Awesome how much everyone looks out for one another here :)

I have had sleep issues since I was a kid..Cannot shut off..then I often wake up hour after hour. Its torture. When I do sleep for 4-6hours, my energy and mood is noticeably 100x better..

Ambien and Lunesta hands down worked like magic for me..No grogginess..etc..after 6 months my doctor took me off..she said I was becoming reliant on them...No shit. It's either that or stay awake days at a time..and be miserable...ill take the ambien...but she wont prescribe it..and I no longer have health insurance.

What I do now that works very well is I take 2caps of ZZZZZZ by Nyquil (lol..whatever the name is) and then I take 2 capsules..so essentially I am making my own timed release version. The liquid hits me immediately, and then once asleep the capsules as they dissolve keep me asleep. This works very well actually.and I buy the generic of both to save $$.

I also blacked out my room to the point I don't even have an alarm clock in there. Any tiny light even a single LED keeps me up..

The combo of this works thankfully :) Wishing you the best man..if your routine doesn't work..u can always give mine a shot..never know!!

VayneZ
06-02-2014, 03:37 PM
If I end up in a coma. Blame Nate guys :p

Cd, I'll be taking it only on Mondays and Thursdays (my weak muscle group days, when I also do HIGH-ass carbs)

Looking forward to this!

Wes, I gotta see if I can get this ZZZZZZ. So you take the liquid and then the caps?

VayneZ
06-03-2014, 01:12 PM
Phenibut is NO JOKE! Awesome deep sleep, and amazing leg workout today! took a gram. Woke up though because had to take a piss, but I went straight back to sleep right after. Head just felt HEAVY

nate3993
06-03-2014, 01:14 PM
tis good shit

VayneZ
06-03-2014, 05:47 PM
Can't wait for Thursday! Just to take it again, and listen to some weird electro session sets and then crash!

Cdsnuts
06-03-2014, 06:46 PM
Can't wait for Thursday! Just to take it again, and listen to some weird electro session sets and then crash!

And that's where the trouble starts with phenibut. I can't say as I blame people for it. Insomnia is a form of torture for a reason! There is nothing worse then slogging through the day on zero sleep. Feeling like a zombie....disconnected from reality. When you have something at your finger tips that can send you off to a sweet, sweet slumber, it becomes very hard to resist it. Especially if you're having a rough night.

Just be careful man.

Hank!
06-03-2014, 06:57 PM
If i use too much Phenibut I tend to be a very grumpy mf'r similar again to my reaction to Benzo's

VayneZ
06-04-2014, 07:24 PM
Thanks for the words of caution guys.
I'll only take it twice a week, no matter how difficult my insomnia gets on the other days. And Hank, I dunno bro, I've been grumpy this whole week, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the Phenibut... I gotta get out of this ''bad mood'' phase, cuz in 3 weeks I'll be on gear...

Mark, play us another song bro :) !

ryhigh
06-05-2014, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the words of caution guys.
I'll only take it twice a week, no matter how difficult my insomnia gets on the other days. And Hank, I dunno bro, I've been grumpy this whole week, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the Phenibut... I gotta get out of this ''bad mood'' phase, cuz in 3 weeks I'll be on gear...

Mark, play us another song bro :) !

Turn that frown upside down, and do the worm all over the ground!

Fleming
06-12-2014, 12:35 AM
Hi VayneZ,
Avoid using sleeping pill and for better and early sleep, engage yourself in regular morning exercises (http://sett.com/doctorstudio/PriapusShot-O-Shot-Sexual-Dysfunction). Avoid taking naps in day timing, manage stress and try to relax before going to bed. Create a restful sleeping environment and be modest about food and drinks.

weekend
06-12-2014, 03:12 AM
i got me some phenibut as well

i took ~200 mg this morning and ended up passing out 4 hours later. definitely related.

the shit is powerful for me. tried 500 mg last friday.

i guess ill try a gram next time but im pretty sure id rather fuck around in the sub 500 range.

2 g seems like too much for me.

Cdsnuts
06-12-2014, 04:51 AM
i got me some phenibut as well

i took ~200 mg this morning and ended up passing out 4 hours later. definitely related.

the shit is powerful for me. tried 500 mg last friday.

i guess ill try a gram next time but im pretty sure id rather fuck around in the sub 500 range.

2 g seems like too much for me.

If 500ish works for you, why bother fucking around with anything higher? Reason I ask is because tolerance goes up ridiculously fast with that stuff. So if the lower doses are working for you, you should stay there as long as you can before you ultimately have to up it.

English
02-20-2015, 08:19 AM
I only had time to read the first 4 pages of this thread and realised i have a fair bit to offer on sleep issues, so if someone has already covered what i will say on the issue then i apologise:
I had a major life event and adverse drug reaction that suddenly made sleep impossible, i was getting literally 1 to 2 hours broken sleep a night for about 2 weeks, at which point i went to the doctors pleading for help.
They prescribed zoplicone to me for 6 months, and along the way another doctor added an anti-depressant to the mix (for sleep)

At the 6 month point i saw the light, i researched the fuck out of the issue and realised this is not the way.

It has been proven time and again that the use of hypnotics (zoplicone), sedatives, anti-histamines and every other pharm sleep drug out there actually inhibit deep sleep, so while you may be unconscious for 5 or 6 hours on the stuff, actually the effect of an unmedicated 3 hrs is still way better. Knowing this is the beginning of relaxing your mind about the issue and getting off them.

The next thing to consider is that pretty much all pharma sleeping drugs fuck with your gabba receptors, and with continued use and raised doses, essentially de-sensitise your receptors to your own natural gabba production and other calm inducing brain chemicals, which not only help keep you asleep, but also keep you calm in the day too. This is why people who use these drugs tend to experience worsening day time anxiety and need ever greater doses.

So, use of these drugs - even at all - is not only pointless but is damaging. Yes it feels good to take a pill and fall asleep, but that is the only momentary benefit.

The happy news is that once you understand this, you can begin to relax, safe in the knowledge that the 2, 3, 4 or 5 hours you get without them is still more beneficial - and this is just the beginning of sleeping better.
Once you get off the drugs, it takes weeks, months and even years for your Gabba receptors to normalise, but every week they improve, just like when you don't drink for 2 months then drink 4 pints (if you've ever done that you will know you feel pissed like you drank twice as much)
Same principle, and in fact, alcohol acts on the Gabba receptors in exactly the same way as the sleeping drugs, and this is partly the reason why alcoholocs go to sleep pissed, get no deep sleep, and wake up as though they never slept at all, and we all know that alcoholocs ultimately have to get off alcohol to lead a normal and rewarding life.
Practically speaking, to sleep well again you need to practice good sleep hygiene (google it) and number one of all things, you need to lie down, completely relaxed about getting maybe just 2 or 3 hours sleep. You must think - "so fucking what, i can function on that anyhow" and you can because you have and you do.
Once you free your mind of searching out more and more sleeping drugs, aids and whatever, and relax your mind to the fact that you can function fine on 2 or 3 hours anyway + good sleep hygiene, over time, you will sleep better and better.
Some people actually only need 3 or 4 hours naturally anyway - Margaret thatcher being a prime example (ex British Prime minister). So if you've always only got 4 or 5 hours, then chances are that is all you need. Sometimes the constantly repeated mantra of needing 7/8hrs a night in the media makes normal people think somethings wrong, and then of course something does go wrong with the anxiety etc. over it all.

You already have everything you need to sleep well, but a stressful event, occurence or drugs has just temporarily made you forget that. Remember you still have everything you need to sleep well, but you might need some time to re-sensitize your brains natural sleeping gear.

Natural stuff that enhances sleep and/or induces sleep are Magnesium, the peptides in milk, kiwi fruit just before bed, a fatty meal and good vitamin balance, particularly vits D3 and C. Most of all, decent hormorne balance in general, which only comes from chilling out, good diet and exercise, and being happy (being happy in particular helps as serotonin is the precursor to gabba)
In my experience though, chilling out and freeing your mind of the need for drugs takes you 80% of the way, the rest is time.

FYI, i now get 6 to 7 hours quality sleep a night, about 10 months after binning all the sleeping pills/drugs. At first sleep was difficult, but i still got 2 or 3 hours, and each month it got slightly better, some nights are still bad, but it becomes an improving picture, until finally, you fully believe you will sleep, so you do.

I hope that helps, i'm not preaching, just explaining my own experience, and believe me, i was in a hell of sleepness night, drugs and anxiety for 6 months.