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View Full Version : TUDCA/UDCA On cycle vs PCT



ryhigh
05-12-2014, 02:17 PM
Does anyone remember a thread on when it was better to use UDCA/TUDCA? I might be going crazy but I thought it was here on SS, and if im not mistaken the reasons were discussed which is better. If im tripping and no one remembers, please tell me but don't judge :o lol Thanks!

VayneZ
05-12-2014, 03:58 PM
Burly's log touched a bit on it:
Burly's Mechabol Experiment - Page 10 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/personal-training-logs/2042-burlys-mechabol-experiment-10.html)
(scroll down to post# 95).

Mark and I were curious about this as well. I believe Jake from AL recommended it during and DJM post....

I'm still debating if I'll run it during my Mechabol cycle or during PCT....

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 04:04 PM
Burly's log touched a bit on it:
Burly's Mechabol Experiment - Page 10 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/personal-training-logs/2042-burlys-mechabol-experiment-10.html)
(scroll down to post# 95).

Mark and I were curious about this as well. I believe Jake from AL recommended it during and DJM post....

I'm still debating if I'll run it during my Mechabol cycle or during PCT....

Awesome! Thank you! I keep my sanity for another day.. lol

Has anyone else since come up with any new info?

My good friend Jelisej with infinite amounts of knowledge? All the other swole bright minded friends anything interesting or new?

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 04:18 PM
Burly's log touched a bit on it:
Burly's Mechabol Experiment - Page 10 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/personal-training-logs/2042-burlys-mechabol-experiment-10.html)
(scroll down to post# 95).

Mark and I were curious about this as well. I believe Jake from AL recommended it during and DJM post....

I'm still debating if I'll run it during my Mechabol cycle or during PCT....

To me it makes the most sense to run during PCT, but then again Jakes a stand up guy and very knowledgeable so doing what he recommends also makes sense lol

O.N.
05-12-2014, 04:22 PM
We sell TUDCA in the form of cycle guard see here: Cycle Guard Wicked Supplements (http://wickedsupplements.com/products-page/general-health/cycle-guard/)

The ingredient break down is:
Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid (TUDCA) 125mg*
Polyenylphosphatidylcholine (PPC) 450mg*
N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) 600mg *
S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine Disulfate Tosylate (SAMe) 200mg*

In my opinion since when used consistently, TUDCA eventually becomes the predominant bile acid in the liver and in general circulation thus if you are causing liver damage whilst on cycle you are better off taking it during this time of stress additionally with the SAMe combined it has an additive effect when used alongside TUDCA.

You may if you wish want to continue taking it once you finish your cycle to repair anything that wasn't able to be repaired on cycle.

A recent review we had was from someone on a comp prep who claimed his urine was basically coka cola color and within days of taking cycle guard it cleared it up see here:
liver support (http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/pct-post-cycle-therapy-oct-on-cycle-therapy/4566-liver-support.html#post82100)

brother i was pissing what looked like coca cola colour at one stage... i jumped onto 3 cycle guard a day and it almost instantly cleared up to a yellowish... i was STILL on high doses... upped my water to 4L a day and took 6 and it comes out clear now

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 04:29 PM
We sell TUDCA in the form of cycle guard see here: Cycle Guard Wicked Supplements (http://wickedsupplements.com/products-page/general-health/cycle-guard/)

The ingredient break down is:
Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid (TUDCA) 125mg*
Polyenylphosphatidylcholine (PPC) 450mg*
N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) 600mg *
S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine Disulfate Tosylate (SAMe) 200mg*

In my opinion since when used consistently, TUDCA eventually becomes the predominant bile acid in the liver and in general circulation thus if you are causing liver damage whilst on cycle you are better off taking it during this time of stress additionally with the SAMe combined it has an additive effect when used alongside TUDCA.

You may if you wish want to continue taking it once you finish your cycle to repair anything that wasn't able to be repaired on cycle.

A recent review we had was from someone on a comp prep who claimed his urine was basically coka cola color and within days of taking cycle guard it cleared it up see here:
liver support (http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/pct-post-cycle-therapy-oct-on-cycle-therapy/4566-liver-support.html#post82100)

Awesome, thank you I appreciate it! I actually was just checking out your Cycle Guard earlier when referring someone to your Toco Caps. Im going to try it out next, I normally use Aegis but rather try Cycle Guard this time.

In your opinion is here a limit one should take it, for example 6 week cycle plus 4 week PCT.. Is 10 weeks too long and potentially problematic?

markam
05-12-2014, 04:37 PM
Does anyone remember a thread on when it was better to use UDCA/TUDCA? I might be going crazy but I thought it was here on SS, and if im not mistaken the reasons were discussed which is better. If im tripping and no one remembers, please tell me but don't judge :o lol Thanks!

I will say that Antaeus use TUDCA (and other stuff) in Aegis, so I'd use that. Mind you, I've only ever seen TUDCA for sale, anyway. Dosage should be 500mgs ed in separate doses with a meal with plenty of fats, preferably not KFC:)

I think Jake (Antaeus) intends Aegis to be used to keep the liver functioning properly on cycle. If Aegis was used on cycle he advised against using it in PCT.

I very much rate Mecha and Triumphalis, but Talos's profile looks a bit odd to me. It contains 50mgs Reversatrol, and the only purpose of that amount is to be able to put Reversatrol on the label, IMO. (Reversatrol is poorly absorbed, orally). But maybe it works synergistically with the other ingredients???


The other big hitter for cycle support is SAM-e @ 400mgs ed. This is not cheap and It may cost the same to buy it on it's own as buying Antaeus Talos which contains it. NAC @1200mgs is cheap and I always use it, Hawthorn berry and Saw Palmetto, also.

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 04:45 PM
I will say that Antaeus use TUDCA (and other stuff) in Aegis, so I'd use that. Mind you, I've only ever seen TUDCA for sale, anyway. Dosage should be 500mgs ed in separate doses with a meal with plenty of fats, preferably not KFC:)

I think Jake (Antaeus) intends Aegis to be used to keep the liver functioning properly on cycle. If Aegis was used on cycle he advised against using it in PCT.

I very much rate Mecha and Triumphalis, but Talos's profile looks a bit odd to me. It contains 50mgs Reversatrol, and the only purpose of that amount is to be able to put Reversatrol on the label, IMO. (Reversatrol is poorly absorbed, orally). But maybe it works synergistically with the other ingredients???


The other big hitter for cycle support is SAM-e @ 400mgs ed. This is not cheap and It may cost the same to buy it on it's own as buying Antaeus Talos which contains it. NAC @1200mgs is cheap and I always use it, Hawthorn berry and Saw Palmetto, also.

Thank you my friend! For Talos I never really did my due diligence on researching the ingredients, ive always had a positive experience with AL so used Talos off reputation. The last 3 cycles ive used both Aegis and Talos and things have been smooth as can be. I'm going to try out Cycle Guard this time.

I also really like Mecha, haven't tried Triump tho but very eager on doing so. There's a big assortment of new hormones I'm excited to try. Most likely next cycle will be TD Trest, Phera, and proviron or mestebol. But who knows yet.

I was talking to a friend about TUDCA and remembered Burly's thread so wanted to see what/if there were any new developments

Jelisej
05-12-2014, 05:27 PM
UDCA/TUDCA has nothing to do with PCT- it is there to protect liver and prevent or slow down damage done to liver from methylated steroids, medications etc... So whenever you use anything that is bad for liver these things should be usedalon few other bits. They can be used all year round, no problem. I always suggest people to use it during cycle and beggining of PCT- and then use "essentiale forte" which basically helps regenerate liver.

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 05:32 PM
UDCA/TUDCA has nothing to do with PCT- it is there to protect liver and prevent or slow down damage done to liver from methylated steroids, medications etc... So whenever you use anything that is bad for liver these things should be usedalon few other bits. They can be used all year round, no problem. I always suggest people to use it during cycle and beggining of PCT- and then use "essentiale forte" which basically helps regenerate liver.

Here is, thank you appreciate it! I know it's not part of a pct protocol, I was just trying to figure out what if any benefit it would have during, as opposed to on cycle.


When in pct do you recommend using for "essentiale forte" like the 1st week of?


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Jelisej
05-12-2014, 05:42 PM
They can be used together as well, but obviously it would bring cost of cycle/PCT up, so TUDCA+ NAC slow down damage, and then essentiale forte is bit more effective in regeneration of liver. Another supplement that is decent is Himalaya Liv52 and is inexpensive- it can be combined with both of them and all can be used together if one feels neccessary.
So final answer is I would run TUDCA+NAC+Liv 52 on cycle than at some point, maybe first week of PCT move to "essentiale forte"+liv 52- and all this is basically for liver protection agains methylated steroids, if there is nothing harmful for liver than they are not neccessary to use, but personally I would advise to use one of them as liver is always "under attack" even SERMS are somewhat toxic to liver, to not even close to some of oral steroids- cannot remeber name of 'roid that still exist (I think) that was very anabolic and androgenic but very toxic to liver- I've heard of cases where people were taken to ER in first week of using it- with serious liver damage.

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 05:50 PM
They can be used together as well, but obviously it would bring cost of cycle/PCT up, so TUDCA+ NAC slow down damage, and then essentiale forte is bit more effective in regeneration of liver. Another supplement that is decent is Himalaya Liv52 and is inexpensive- it can be combined with both of them and all can be used together if one feels neccessary.
So final answer is I would run TUDCA+NAC+Liv 52 on cycle than at some point, maybe first week of PCT move to "essentiale forte"+liv 52- and all this is basically for liver protection agains methylated steroids, if there is nothing harmful for liver than they are not neccessary to use, but personally I would advise to use one of them as liver is always "under attack" even SERMS are somewhat toxic to liver, to not even close to some of oral steroids- cannot remeber name of 'roid that still exist (I think) that was very anabolic and androgenic but very toxic to liver- I've heard of cases where people were taken to ER in first week of using it- with serious liver damage.

Great info! Thank you. Yeah I am big on support supps when taking anything, I don't want to risk it, especially since my cycles may tend to be on the harsher side. But I do get pre and post bloods to check for sure. I take TUDCA during cycle always was just curious about incorporating into my PCT. Thanks to all the input today I have my answer, thanks everyone.

You might be talking about Superdrol (Methasterone) many experience a feeling like being "poisoned" I know I did and stopped right away.

markam
05-12-2014, 05:59 PM
Have you heard of Bupleurum ? It's used in a liver cleanse formula and also in LGI's Damage control.
Apparently it also has a calming effect and is good at treating irritability. Trouble is, the wife won't take it:(

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 06:02 PM
Have you heard of Bupleurum ? It's used in a liver cleanse formula and also in LGI's Damage control.
Apparently it also has a calming effect and is good at treating irritability. Trouble is, the wife won't take it:(

No never heard of it, I have seen quite a few logs with people using Damage Control just never looked into ingredients. Lol well you can always give it to her without knowing, I mean no ill intent meant

markam
05-12-2014, 06:08 PM
No never heard of it, I have seen quite a few logs with people using Damage Control just never looked into ingredients. Lol well you can always give it to her without knowing, I mean no ill intent meant

No ill intent taken:)

Re Damage control, It's not a bad profile, but it only has 200mgs TUDCA and 200mgs SAM-e, so it's under dosed compared to Talos and Aegis, but a hell of a lot cheaper. You get what you pay for, usually.

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 06:13 PM
No ill intent taken:)

Re Damage control, It's not a bad profile, but it only has 200mgs TUDCA and 200mgs SAM-e, so it's under dosed compared to Talos and Aegis, but a hell of a lot cheaper. You get what you pay for, usually.

I might be able to get a discount on it and do have TUDCA on hand, I might try it next. I like the looks of Cycle Guard so want to try that out and support a sponsor. I don't have anymore Talos tho, not sure on getting another bottle. Have you seen Cadence before? Its new, and theres a small hype over on PHF about it..


Nimbus Nutrition CADENCE
(http://www.nimbusnutrition.com/CADENCE-853241003022.htm)

O.N.
05-12-2014, 09:33 PM
Awesome, thank you I appreciate it! I actually was just checking out your Cycle Guard earlier when referring someone to your Toco Caps. Im going to try it out next, I normally use Aegis but rather try Cycle Guard this time.

In your opinion is here a limit one should take it, for example 6 week cycle plus 4 week PCT.. Is 10 weeks too long and potentially problematic?

We recommend running it for 8 weeks then having a small break before running again, when we designed Cycle Guard we went about asking quite a few experienced users what they would want in a liver support supplement and at what dosages, additionally many of the current liver/cycle support supplements do not list the active % of ingredients eg TUDCA is highly expensive and ours is a 99% purity where competitors in our opinion are likely to be using 50% based on their wholesale pricing we have seen. In some cases TUDCA can be $2000 per kg, even if you are buying 50kg.

I am not saying they are using 50% but I am saying it's highly likely based on the wholesale prices we have seen. It is simply impossible to have a high purity TUDCA at the wholesale price they sell it at. (I maybe wrong and they have some amazing way to get cheaper prices than everyone else but i doubt it.)

ryhigh
05-12-2014, 10:22 PM
We recommend running it for 8 weeks then having a small break before running again, when we designed Cycle Guard we went about asking quite a few experienced users what they would want in a liver support supplement and at what dosages, additionally many of the current liver/cycle support supplements do not list the active % of ingredients eg TUDCA is highly expensive and ours is a 99% purity where competitors in our opinion are likely to be using 50% based on their wholesale pricing we have seen. In some cases TUDCA can be $2000 per kg, even if you are buying 50kg.

I am not saying they are using 50% but I am saying it's highly likely based on the wholesale prices we have seen. It is simply impossible to have a high purity TUDCA at the wholesale price they sell it at. (I maybe wrong and they have some amazing way to get cheaper prices than everyone else but i doubt it.)
Awesome, thank you. I'll be ordering that for my next cycle and try it out. Appreciate all the help



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