Test-e and water bloating

[Jack O'Neill]

Hi All,

It's a long time I didn't posted here but I always followed new posts with real interest.

I decided to go to a test cycle after several PH cycles (with results closed to zero :-( )

In my last bulk cycles (Dienazone especially), I really bloated and I was big like a gorilla. All has disappeared once I was in PCT. Very expensive cycle for nothing.

Here is my question :
I wanted to follow a test-e cycle 250mg E3D for 10 or 12 weeks. Maybe 100mg EOD of test-p for weeks 10-13.

Anastrozole 1mg EOD for all the cycle (w/PCT)

PCT:
Torem 60/60/30/30/30
Clomid 25/25/25/12.5/12.5

Is it possible to follow this cycle without bloating??? I don't like this.

All my stats are in my old detailed logs here.

Thank you

[Jelisej]

You should not have a bloat from testosterone enthanate, keep estrogen at check- if bloat still happens it means you have problems with adrenals- tough HCG stimulates adrenals as well as thyroid so bloat should not happen, minor water retention yes, thats all.
IMO most simple and best protocol for test e in either HRT or on cycle is mon-wed-fri, same with HCG which can be injected before or after test e.
Optionally you can add low dose of masteron e.
Other thing that I suggest to people is to add one bottle of test prop with start one-or-two weeks before stopping test e, and run it for additional 2-3 weeks- so test e clears of system, last dose of test prop should be small one, followed by HCG and 2-3 days after you can start PCT.

[Jack O'Neill]

I think this is ^ a bit complicated for a 1st test cycle.

1st cycle, 1st injections, ...

But thanks Jelisej for your smart answer

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[hossam]

you have to eliminate the salt or Sodium in your diet
but still you will have little water retention

[Jack O'Neill]

A little retention is fine. What I don't want is to bloat like a balloon!

[Bucks]

Jack good to see your back for another run. Hopefully this one gives you a little more of some positive gains.

[nate3993]

U ain't gonna be gorilla bloated with that dosing and AI. You'll be fine

[Jelisej]

I think this is ^ a bit complicated for a 1st test cycle.

1st cycle, 1st injections,


Erhm, not sure which part you find complicated -cycle or bloat explanation- so I'll emphasise that HCG must be used during your cycle. best is 3X a week 250 IU, tough you can try to follow E3D test. shots.

your PCT is not long enough- I'm not sure about your age but if you are over 40 then recovery is much slower- you should do minimum of 8 weeks of clomid, maybe 10 weeks... It sounds a lot, but in reality there should be no problems or sides as long as you dont take to much- 12.5 mg a day, or 25eod is enough, you can mix with other SERM if you want more.

As for cycle, adding masteron at low dose is lovely addition- and it does reduce water retention.

BTW congratulations on wise decision, prohormones are more-less bunk- and testosterone is actually much more safer and with less sides than phs.

[longBallLima]

Test at 500/week is enough for a first time pinner imo. Mon and Thurs shots. I like mast p. Maybe mast p eod starting after week 4. Agree with Jel, most phs give you borrowed muscle. What's your age?

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[longBallLima]

Oh and you won't bloat with the ai. And definitely not with the Mast

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[Jack O'Neill]

Thanks all for your help.
I'm 45

[Jelisej]

Thanks all for your help.
I'm 45

You're welcome bro'. Actually, the purpose of this forum is to help each other, so feel free to ask whatever you are not sure off or whatever interests you, asking questions is good not just for you- for others as well. And that is opportunity for us to interact, forum without questions is like a plant without water- it quickly withers and dies.

Back to PCT, I would extend it a bit- at some point in late 30's- early 40's things slow down, and recovery is more slow and difficult- it does not hurt to add few more weeks, and it can make difference in long term.


Another thread that you may find useful:
Clomid Nolva PCT (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/mens-health-ancillary-medication/1955-clomid-nolva-pct.html)



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[ryhigh]

Jel how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?1211

[Jelisej]

Ryan my friend, I struggled to understand this question so I had to google it :)
Best answer I guess would be:“Technically speaking, if you weren’t planning on actually eating it, you could smash it in with a hammer or some sort of blunt or sharp object. You’d still get to the center, and in this case it would take zero licks.”

[Jack O'Neill]

Very interesting posts lol

[ryhigh]

Ryan my friend, I struggled to understand this question so I had to google it :)
Best answer I guess would be:“Technically speaking, if you weren’t planning on actually eating it, you could smash it in with a hammer or some sort of blunt or sharp object. You’d still get to the center, and in this case it would take zero licks.”

Haha thats cheating

[Jack O'Neill]

Ok. So I will open a new post for this future cycle. My aim is to be ready for september of october 14'

I'm cutting now. I want to be as lean as possible before starting this impotant cycle.

[Jack O'Neill]

Just a question concerning HCG.

If I follow the protocol proposed by Jelisej I should have about 6000IU of HCG (in two shots of 250IU / week)

When I look into different websites, HCG is sold in amp of 5000IU.

I should be fine to find vials of 5000IU like vials of test

[Jelisej]

With HCG one bottle should be discarded after 4 weeks, as there is possibility of it losing its potency- so as typically we use 250 IU 3X a week which means you will use only 3000 IU, maybe bit more. There are some brands that come in smaller vials, usually 3X1500 IU- if you can get pregnyl by organon thats good brand you will need 2 of them which will give you 9000IU which will be 11 weeks of rock&roll (usually we draw bit more than 250IU rather than less).

[Jack O'Neill]

With HCG one bottle should be discarded after 4 weeks, as there is possibility of it losing its potency- so as typically we use 250 IU 3X a week which means you will use only 3000 IU, maybe bit more. There are some brands that come in smaller vials, usually 3X1500 IU- if you can get pregnyl by organon thats good brand you will need 2 of them which will give you 9000IU which will be 11 weeks of rock&roll (usually we draw bit more than 250IU rather than less).

Okay thx

I saw there are 2 bottles when you get HCG : a solution of water and HCG itself apparently? I have to merge the 2 bottles together?

[longBallLima]

No, discard the liquid and reconstitute with bac water

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[Jack O'Neill]

Thx LongBallLima.

Which would be the best dosage for HCG and Masteron for a cycle like that :
W1-W10 : test-e monday, thursday 250mg
W9-W13 : test-p E2D

[Jelisej]

HCG 3X 250 IU

I would suggest you to combine masteron with with test e- meaning to use same ester which is enthanate so ran it W1-W10, and inject them together, same dosage- you can adjust dose after if you feel need for it.
IMO it seems that more than 600 mg of either does not translate in more gains- and with masteron more than 600 mg is likely to make night sweats worse or more pronounced, also it may bring cortisol down too much which can make one feel bit lazy, bit lethargic.
using test p at the end is good idea, basically thats the best way to allow all other stuff to clears out of system and more easy to calculate start of PCT.

[Jack O'Neill]

Jelisej,
Do you mean 2 injections the same day? Mast and test-e
Or, is it existing enthanate test+mast together?

I planned to inject 2x/week (2x250mg test-e)

If I inject HCG (up to 3x/week), it may be too much injections each day for my 1st cycle :-(

[Jelisej]

Jelisej,
Do you mean 2 injections the same day? Mast and test-e
Or, is it existing enthanate test+mast together?

I planned to inject 2x/week (2x250mg test-e)

If I inject HCG (up to 3x/week), it may be too much injections each day for my 1st cycle :-(


I mean inject masteron enthanate in same dosage and frequency as test e- so if you are going to do 2x 250mg of test e than do same with masteron e- draw 250 mg of test e than draw mast e in same syringe and inject them together.

My advice is to fill lot of syringes in advance (with both compound) with one needle, and then throw that needle (as it is dull) and put unopened syringes- so injecting is much more easier and painless

you could do 3X a week (mon-wed-fri)- it would be easier to remember, you inject HCG before or after test/mast.
and you can rotate injection site, for example- left delt, right delt, left gluteus right gluteus so each injection site has time to "recover", which also means less pain

All this may sound complicated but its quite simple,

[Jack O'Neill]

I think I understood and it seems to be simple indeed (but lots of injections for a 1st time however)

Btw Masteron-e is VERY expensive vs test-e. 2x250x10=5000mg of mast-e!

This cycle will be I think too much expensive with mast-e

[tallstraw]

You really don't need 500mg of mast lol. You're already cutting without it. Why not go with just 250 or so a week of Mast E, and use it to combat estrogen, free up some test, and give you a little mood boost? No reason to go with 500 a week.

[Jack O'Neill]

If I take test-e on W1-W10 and test-p on W10-W13, should I take mast all along the cycle (W1 - W13)?

And could I take mast-e with test-p the 3 last weeks?

Sorry for all the questions but I want to be sure before starting a cycle like that

[Jelisej]

One more time- take mast e together with test e- when you stop test e stop mast e as well; test propionate is there to "close gap" between cycle and start PCT, basically it takes while for enthanate ester clears of system.

As for masteron, dose less than 300 mg is not worth it IMO. Tough masteron e is not "must have" so you can drop it altogether. Masteron is not used to control estrogen, and it is very poor AI- its used to increase strenght, add some "dry muscles" and to keep some of the "dry look", if you do evrything right you should keep most of gains.

[tallstraw]

Jack, although very intelligent, Jelis words aren't the gospel. Do some research of your own man. Best advice I was ever given. Very many would disagree with the less than 300mg dose, Many use Mast at 250mg, for the purposes I said.

[Jelisej]

Jack, although very intelligent, Jelis words aren't the gospel. Do some research of your own man. Best advice I was ever given. Very many would disagree with the less than 300mg dose, Many use Mast at 250mg, for the purposes I said.

You are correct in what are you saying- my words are not gospel. Many people do use masteron at 250 mg and less.
Different people different opinions and experiences.

[nate3993]

pffft at using 250mg of mast. 500 MINIMUM and honestly, i'd say 600....i have experience with mast and 600-700 was pretty good. but 250 has got to be pretty pathetic. these guys probably have overdosed gear then if they seriously dig mast e at only 250 a week