TRT Help?

[wagon241]

Folks, I have been on TRT for a year. I was advised yesterday that my insurance will NO LONGER cover or support any TRT. Prior to TRT my total was low 200's, and free was low 30's. I have been low for years, and decided at 34 I needed a libido again! Since being on TRT my numbers hover around 900(TT), and around 65(FT). I get bloods quarterly, and have felt great for a good 12 months. Now I have no choice, and basically will slowly bottom out again.

My question in this: Now that insurance will NOT cover any of it, what kind of alternatives are there? Besides paying 200 or 300 hundred a month with insurance coverage?

[longBallLima]

go to those shitty 199 clinics, they will put anyone on test.


my bad - saw you dont wanna pay out of pocket. underground is your only choice then

[ironjulius]

You can get pharm grade 10/ml 200mg for less than $100 you just got to search and research so you dont get scammed

- - - Updated - - -

Still get blood work done and there are places that will do thatif insurance wont cover it

[wagon241]

go to those shitty 199 clinics, they will put anyone on test.


my bad - saw you dont wanna pay out of pocket. underground is your only choice then


No, Id rather pay out of pocket than go UG, just gets expensive... Was just wondering more if there's other options. I brought up the Clomid "reboot" to my doc, (who has extensive endo history) and looked at me like i had four eyes. I have tried all the normal natty stuff over the years, and got NO results. Wish PP was still around, as AH low dosed was nice.

[Jelisej]

You can go to those anti-ageing clinics, they will be more happy to prescribe 200mg testosterone a week to make you happy customer, you can also get stuff yourself- not all stuff you buy is UG- there are some brands that are made in pharmacies ( e.g. "galenika" test depo" ) as in some countries law on testosterone is very liberal.

Clomid restart may work as well, tough if your test. levels was always low (congenital hypogonadism) than its very unlikely that it will not work, tough you may try to run clomid+ low dose Ai permanently if it gives you good result- tough in this scenario you may not have good libido or you may not get "good feel"

With natural stuff is hard to get good results on permanent basis, tough it works for some.

[wagon241]

You can go to those anti-ageing clinics, they will be more happy to prescribe 200mg testosterone a week to make you happy customer, you can also get stuff yourself- not all stuff you buy is UG- there are some brands that are made in pharmacies ( e.g. "galenika" test depo" ) as in some countries law on testosterone is very liberal.

Clomid restart may work as well, tough if your test. levels was always low (congenital hypogonadism) than its very unlikely that it will not work, tough you may try to run clomid+ low dose Ai permanently if it gives you good result- tough in this scenario you may not have good libido or you may not get "good feel"

With natural stuff is hard to get good results on permanent basis, tough it works for some.

Jel, I was hoping you would pop in! I have spent hours reading everything you have posted in the past on TRT. Because Im only 35, there saying my numbers are not sufficient enough to be on trt??? My FT is "flagged" as low, but my TT is borderline. Because they are not both "flagged", they no longer cover. The out of pocket expense for AG-1.62 is $400 per month. I am currently looking at the clinics and weighing the option. My pcp is not happy either. He's recommending go off everything for 6 weeks, then re-test bloods to prove that I have always been low. Thats great, except it took over a year for my hormone levels to be perfect, and now I have to go back through the bottoming out stage, just to prove our heathcare system doesnt give a fck about our health!

[Jelisej]

I know how you feel, sometimes healthcare can let you down- and their reference ranges are nonsense and I've been complaining about that for years, because IMO average should be measured using only healthy peoples samples not just everyone-

I'm not sure if you saying that if prove that your tt is low you'll get cover? Because that can be done, if they want to play dirty we can play dirty as well...
Also not quite sure if you want to try clomid restart or clomid as TRT or you want to continue TRT as it was? Think about all options.
At the end of the day its your life, and you have right to choose your path- so whatever your choice is you should go for it.
Any questions, feel free to ask- we are here to help each other.

[wagon241]

I know how you feel, sometimes healthcare can let you down- and their reference ranges are nonsense and I've been complaining about that for years, because IMO average should be measured using only healthy peoples samples not just everyone-

I'm not sure if you saying that if prove that your tt is low you'll get cover? Because that can be done, if they want to play dirty we can play dirty as well...
Also not quite sure if you want to try clomid restart or clomid as TRT or you want to continue TRT as it was? Think about all options.
At the end of the day its your life, and you have right to choose your path- so whatever your choice is you should go for it.
Any questions, feel free to ask- we are here to help each other.


Thanks brother, I appreciate it! Basically my pcp said I have to stay off TRT, Natural boosters, everything, for 6 weeks. So he can then do bloods, and re-submit it to the insurance company, to meet there "hypogonadism" markers. The issue is, my FT was flagged as low on more than one occasion, yet my TT was never below 220 that there using. (i think my TT was just above the low range). So I could go through all this BS, just to be denied again. I'm not looking for high numbers, Im just looking to stay at a even keel at like 900 TT, and a FT at like 175. Everything was great! Libido, energy, everything, and now nothing! Fkn sucks.

[Jelisej]

Honestly, I think that you need to use something (AAS) that will suppress your TT to fall below 200 mark, so you get covered for TRT- but bloody hell, their lower limit is unbeleivable- only dead and half-dead qualify for TRT. If you always had your natural test levels around 300 ng/dl its very unlikely that you'll get better results anyway- and that number is simply too low to live decent life.

[Bucks]

I wonder if you popped like 100mgs a day of oral Trest for 5 days before drawing blood work if it will drop TT levels by say 30 %? I know it's pretty suppressive , I just don't know how quickly it suppresses.

You would need to test it out of pocket with blood work to see what your levels would be.

[wagon241]

[QUOTE=Bucks;38781]I wonder if you popped like 100mgs a day of oral Trest for 5 days before drawing blood work if it will drop TT levels by say 30 %? I know it's pretty suppressive , I just don't know how quickly it suppresses.

You would need to test it out of pocket with blood work to see what your levels would be.]]

So a blood test wouldn't show a spike in test while being on something? Is that because the bloods only show natural production?

[BoneDaddy]

If you could get your hands on some Superdrol, Tren types, or Ultradrol......that'd knock your T level in the dirt

[KGPL]

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but depending on what blood test the insurance wants couldn't they also see that his liver values are out of whack if he were to hop on something strong like sdrol? It might raise some red flags.

[wagon241]

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but depending on what blood test the insurance wants couldn't they also see that his liver values are out of whack if he were to hop on something strong like sdrol? It might raise some red flags.


No worries my friend, SD and UD arent gonna happen.

However, on cycle Tren's will lower FT and TT when on??

[BoneDaddy]

No worries my friend, SD and UD arent gonna happen.

However, on cycle Tren's will lower FT and TT when on??

Definitely.

[wagon241]

Definitely.

Wow... Im no rookie, but damn I always thought your numbers spiked when on!

[BoneDaddy]

Wow... Im no rookie, but damn I always thought your numbers spiked when on!

All AAS, by nature, suppress natural T production. Hence the need for a 'T base' on cycle. To my knowledge, the only thing that would increase test (besides exogenous Test....) would be HCG, Clomid, etc.... Now, DHT derivitives may show as falsely as testosterone on panels, but I'm not sure by how much. No way Tren or the other increase testosterone. Run a cycle of something and go test your levels after say....4 weeks.

[Jelisej]

Wow... Im no rookie, but damn I always thought your numbers spiked when on!

Check this out: Saw endo today, feeling like shit (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/misc/1818-saw-endo-today-feeling-like-shit.html)

You'll find some interesting answers on this thread.

[dova]

Juist my opinion.... don't use tren, it can be very harsh on the body. Even one dose of test will shut you down. Your own production of test will be zero, but your bloodwork will show high levels of test. Once you stop the test, after a couple of weeks your levels will be very low. But also your lh and fsh are near zero. A good endo shall see that you have taken something. A bit later your lh and fsh shall rise over the top while your test levels are still low. But only bloodwork van tell.

[Jelisej]

Juist my opinion.... don't use tren, it can be very harsh on the body. Even one dose of test will shut you down. Your own production of test will be zero, but your bloodwork will show high levels of test. Once you stop the test, after a couple of weeks your levels will be very low. But also your lh and fsh are near zero. A good endo shall see that you have taken something. A bit later your lh and fsh shall rise over the top while your test levels are still low. But only bloodwork van tell.
I have to disagree with you here as his natural test. level is too low to worry about shutdown and he has been for a while on TRT which did work for him, so on this case means justify the end.
Also good endo would realise that 300 ng/dl is too low to live normal life- anyway if blood test would show low testosterone and high LH levels endo would think that he is primary- if blood tests would show low testosterone and low LH than endo would think that he is secondary (pituary not sending signal to testes to produce more testosterone). Also LH levels are not constant- one need to have a number of blood test before drawing conclusions. So unless his bloods show high test. no way endo will notice trick with AAS- and if he is using AAS for very short period other parameters will not be affected to level (eg increased platelets count) that someone will notice AAS usage.

[dova]

Please, don't misunderstand me. I don't want to debate if 'wagon241' needs hrt or not. He is on hrt and is feeling well. I know what it is to have low t levels. And i think that his doctor is playing with his health if he stops te hrt. My opinion was based on the fact that he is looking to fool the doctor and i think that it's not going to be easy. So, let's say you wan't to fool the endo. You take a couple of shots of test. You wait till you crash. Then go to the endo. Your levels of test are extreme low and your LH and FSH is near zero. I don't think that he will believe you, that you have such extreme low levels. i think he will retest in a couple of months before he will prescribe you something. Another solution, take all your results from bloodwork, go to the endo, say that you are on hrt for one year now and that your regular doctor will stop it. Ask if he will help you further.

[tallstraw]

...okay, crash it with superdrol, and take hmg and hcg in low doses.












Also nothing I say should be taken with any bit of seriousness....jk...or am I?...jk


















..or am I?...

[wagon241]

Folks I apologize for my absence. Was on Family vacation.

Get this shit: Last week while out of town, my pcp and endo, appealed the Insurance's decision to rescind coverage. I am now covered again, up til the year 2099! LOL... So long story short, Insurance companies suck ass, and after a few weeks of no trt, I am getting back to normal! I appreciate everyones feedback!

Also, I didnt post my trt. I use and love androgel 1.62 at 3 pumps a day(60mg). With this, my TT levels remain and sustain around 1100, and my FT level hangs around 180. This is a sweet spot for me, and I love it. Like I said, I have been on TRT since June 2013, and get bloods every 3 months. Not only do I feel better, but the wife loves it also! After 11 years of marriage, and two kids, I still chase her around like I did the first night!

[BBG]

I'd love to see what your DHT levels are at with the androgel. I think some people would probably prefer the androgel due to the higher conversion to DHT, but injection is always suggested over androgel (by guys on the boards, at least).

[wagon241]

I'd love to see what your DHT levels are at with the androgel. I think some people would probably prefer the androgel due to the higher conversion to DHT, but injection is always suggested over androgel (by guys on the boards, at least).

DHT has never came back "flagged", but its usually on the higher high side of the normal range. Bloods have always been good to go. I will ask for full profile, and post next blood test. Note it will be a few months and indicate over 1.5 years of AG1.62

[BBG]

That would be very cool to see, wagon.

[dova]

Glad to hear that you are back on your normal trt protocol!

[dova]

@wagon241 : what trt protocol do you follow? Only androgel? Do you take an AI or something else? How is your bloodwork? E2, cholesterol?
I'm started with trt and try to find a good protocol with help of this forum. For the moment it seems that my bloodwork is getting worser, so the more i can read about it, the better. But my feelings are way better than before.
Thanks