Pubertal gyno removal

[paxman]

I'm 25, I've had naturally occurred pubertal gyno for more than 5 years. Last year I decided to get rid of it. I hit it with Letrozole first and I've been on it for 12 weeks. I slowly tappered it on and off, but the highest dosage was 2.5 mg and it didn't do anything to gyno (but gave me painful knees). Then I decided to give Nolvadex a try for 12 weeks (20 mg ED) + Clomid (25 mg EOD) but there were no noticeable effects.

Desperate because non of these worked, I just had to give Raloxifene a chance and I've been on it for 14 weeks (still counting). So far, nothing. I just don't know what else to do, maybe a combination with aromasin would do the trick?

Before I started to treat myself, I visited endo and got these blood work done by him (more than a year ago):
S-PTH 22 ng/L
s-testosterone 10,8 nmol/L (about 317 ng/dL)
s-lh 1,5 UI/L
s-fsh 2,2 IU/L
s-tsh 2,77 mU/L
s-ft3 5,2 pmol/L
s-ft4 13,6 pmol/L
prolactin (POOL and PEG) 8,5 ug/L
IGF-1 292 ug/l.
MRI of pituitary gland - everything within normal range
Ultrasound of gyno - confirmed that it exist

They didn't check other hormones. Also, reference ranges were not provided so they should be compared to these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests

I did however retest s-testosterone on my own while I was taking nolvadex and it really increased dramatically - 10.4 ng/ml (reference range 2.8 - 8.0), so about 3x higher in comparison to first result, but of course that was months ago, I'm not on nolva anymore. I did another test few weeks ago, but this time estradiol, here are the results: 29.65 ng/L (reference: 7.61 - 43.11)

What do you think guys?

[KGPL]

Ralox, Prami, letro, clean up your diet, and hope for the best.

[ECTD]

Nolva at 20mg during 6 months of use showed to decrease or eliminate the gyno.
here is the study
[Influence of size and duration of gynecomastia... [Rev Med Chil. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18357357)

Nolvadex did not work because it was not given enough time. and clomid did not work because it is not specific to breast tissue and is not good for removing/reducing gyno problems.

here is some more information i found
"Sixty-eight patients with idiopathic gynecomastia were seen in the Breast Clinic. The median age was 39.5 years (range, 13-82), with a median duration of symptoms of 3 months (range, 1-90). The median size was 3 cm (range, 1-7). Twenty-three patients were treated with tamoxifen and 20 with danazol. Complete resolution of the gynecomastia was recorded in 18 patients (78.2%) treated with tamoxifen"


"Based on the good results of another author 10 boys with marked pubertal gynecomastia were treated with the antioestrogen Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) at a dose of 20-40 mg/d orally for 2-12 months. In most cases the gynecomastia decreased totally, only two patients experienced palpable subareolar glandular tissue at the end of therapy"

"Sixty-one Chinese men with idiopathic gynecomastia were treated with 40 mg of tamoxifen daily for one of four months (median, two months). Eighty percent had complete regression of their breast swelling. No long-term side effects of tamoxifen were observed over a median follow-up period of 36 months."

"Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041)."

"We evaluated the efficacy of the tamoxifen treatment in 37 patients with pubertal gynecomastia. All had distinct, easily palpable breast swellings with a diameter of over three cm. Pain, tenderness, and swelling associated with gynecomastia were reported by six patients. Eight of the patients were obese. One patient also suffered from varicocele. Pain and size reduction was seen in all patients with tamoxifen treatment."

"After suppression of anabolic steroid intake and treatment with tamoxifen, a high remission rate can be achieved "

so pretty much it seems with nolvadex you will run it at 20mg until it starts clearing up then keep running it until the gyno feels/looks better and is either gone or almost gone. in your case with having it for 5 years i don't see you being able to completely remove it with SERMS or AI's unfortunately but you can most likely shrink it to a size that will not be noticeable.

[paxman]

@KGPL: do you really think Prami would do any trick in my case? My prolactin levels are supposed to be normal. And how could AI help if there are already very low levels of E2 in breast tissue?

@ECTD: that's a really nice pack of case studies, but I've also seen in some that raloxifene is even more effective than tamoxifen. Which one would you therefore recommend? Should I stack it with Prami, AI or anything else?

[ECTD]

@KGPL: do you really think Prami would do any trick in my case? My prolactin levels are supposed to be normal. And how could AI help if there are already very low levels of E2 in breast tissue?

@ECTD: that's a really nice pack of case studies, but I've also seen in some that raloxifene is even more effective than tamoxifen. Which one would you therefore recommend? Should I stack it with Prami, AI or anything else?
I would try raloxifen first since it is most selective in that specific tissue.

[paxman]

I would try raloxifen first since it is most selective in that specific tissue.

But should I combine it with aromasin to make it more effective than ralox alone?

[weekend]

I would not use dopamine agonists (prami or caber) to reduce my gyno if I had it to do over again. I'm suspicious they were the cause of a lot of issues down the road.

The best success I have had is with using masteron, injectable DHT, and Epiandrosterone. A TRT dose of test definitely helps, but over 300 mg/week usually slows progress. Masteron at 500+/week shrinks it fast! Run some torem or Nolva alongside one of these steroids and you'll see an even bigger difference. Use exemestane if using testosterone.

[Lugnuts]

I would not use dopamine agonists (prami or caber) to reduce my gyno if I had it to do over again. I'm suspicious they were the cause of a lot of issues down the road.

The best success I have had is with using masteron, injectable DHT, and Epiandrosterone. A TRT dose of test definitely helps, but over 300 mg/week usually slows progress. Masteron at 500+/week shrinks it fast! Run some torem or Nolva alongside one of these steroids and you'll see an even bigger difference. Use exemestane if using testosterone.

^^^

This is the only way to go really, I do believe Ralox would hit the area harder than Torem or Nolva but I may be wrong. Pubertal gyno is VERY VERY hard to get rid of, trust me I would know but some get lucky.

I finally gave up and got it done, I could have saved a lot of money and time if I just went the surgery route the first time. Its getting more well known and health insurances are covering the operation now, may want to check into that.

[weekend]

torem is better than any serm for me.

injectable DHT is the best of all.

start with the new antaeus ultra stano! dose high for 6-8 weeks and watch the gyno melt away.. use torem as a PCT with some light aromasin... forget the letro, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

i used a ton of ralox FWIW and it didn't do shit for my gyno. it was good too, pharma grade from cipla which is a legit company. other effects included drying out and high LH FSH and test levels.

[Lugnuts]

torem is better than any serm for me.

injectable DHT is the best of all.

start with the new antaeus ultra stano! dose high for 6-8 weeks and watch the gyno melt away.. use torem as a PCT with some light aromasin... forget the letro, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

i used a ton of ralox FWIW and it didn't do shit for my gyno. it was good too, pharma grade from cipla which is a legit company. other effects included drying out and high LH FSH and test levels.

Would be nice to walk in and get a few spot injections each week to treat the problem, even surgery is a pain in the ass, it put me out for 6 weeks before I could hit the weights again.