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View Full Version : Eric Potratz issues statement on FDA raid



h2s
11-05-2012, 09:20 AM
Primordial Performance: FDA seizure, going out of business, and the future - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums (http://www.primordialperformance.com/discussion/primordial-health/10203-primordial-performance-fda-seizure-going-out-business-future.html)

Good Read, feel free to discuss.

Eden
11-05-2012, 09:36 AM
I figured most of the stuff he said really sorry to hear their financial situation was so bad.

When he said they were getting locked out and Eric was moving in with his mom I couldn't believe it. This is all very sad.

Lilcheeks
11-05-2012, 10:04 AM
I figured most of the stuff he said really sorry to hear their financial situation was so bad.

When he said they were getting locked out and Eric was moving in with his mom I couldn't believe it. This is all very sad.

Sounds like this wont keep him down though. Anyone with the drive and ability to research and put stuff like this together once doesn't just give up in the bigger picture.

Freepressright
11-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Yeah, sure doesn't sound like Eric is done by any stretch. I can't wait for his next project.

KAB111
11-05-2012, 10:39 AM
Ive been through something almost as devistating and I made it though to the other side and am now in a very good spot in my life. Im sure Eric will reinvent himself at the right time and will share his product. These times are where men are made.

Enuke65
11-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Is there a particular reason he advises against selling andro series? Even in small quantities?

h2s
11-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Is there a particular reason he advises against selling andro series? Even in small quantities?

He is just stressing caution. No one knows what the FDA is up to. Honestly though, unless you are moving them at scarface levels, I cant see why the FDA would bother. You are not manufacturing or advertising.

Rulk
11-05-2012, 06:44 PM
Eric has built a great reputation in this industry, and that will help tremendously if he chooses to stay in this business and try again. I should ask him if he is interested in doing a Kickstarter event, to fund a possible comeback. Not sure if anyone here is aware of Kickstarter?

Cobalt
11-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Eric has built a great reputation in this industry, and that will help tremendously if he chooses to stay in this business and try again. I should ask him if he is interested in doing a Kickstarter event, to fund a possible comeback. Not sure if anyone here is aware of Kickstarter?
I've put into a few kickstarters before. It may be a great idea, but after the crap the FDA just pulled, it may be a while before he really gets back into it.

h2s
11-05-2012, 07:02 PM
I've put into a few kickstarters before. It may be a great idea, but after the crap the FDA just pulled, it may be a while before he really gets back into it.

You guys have to realize, that even if he does, he would have a drastically different company. Think SNS and CEL.

Eden
11-05-2012, 07:23 PM
Like H2S said, if he comes up with a new company it would have to be very different, once you get on the governments radar you stay there, so they would always be in whatever he did. If it's hormonal.

burlyman30
11-05-2012, 07:23 PM
It may be a great idea, but after the crap the FDA just pulled, it may be a while before he really gets back into it.

x2. Right now, he is still waiting on the FDA to notify him if charges will be filed or what step they will choose to take. The FDA is not done with PP and Eric simply because PP closes its doors. They have a case that they may choose to pursue. Eric is not out of the woods yet, so it would be ridiculous for him to start anything when he is under a very powerful microscope.

Rulk
11-05-2012, 07:45 PM
Laying low for a while won't be a problem for Eric. As for a new venture.. I wonder if Alpha Male would be a risky one? But yeah, going back into the ph realm would be doubly risky venture, especially after 1 run in with fda. This is for sure, Eric does not want to be another me too company, so if he does decide to jump back in the industry, i'm sure it'll be really interesting whatever he releases.

h2s
11-05-2012, 07:46 PM
I am bit of a loser, but I was really looking forward to andro butter and alpha minerals. Nutriton and health are two product categories I could always use.

Eden
11-05-2012, 07:49 PM
I am bit of a loser, but I was really looking forward to andro butter and alpha minerals. Nutriton and health are two product categories I could always use.

What was Andro butter? I heard rumor about it but never had a clue what it actually was.

h2s
11-05-2012, 08:00 PM
What was Andro butter? I heard rumor about it but never had a clue what it actually was.

We were not even told yet. I believe it was supposed to be a butter than utilized fats most associated with benefiting testosterone levels. Eric was very much about hormone optimization. Perfect hormonal enviornment = super human. I actually personally have always had an interest in getting deep into the study of what dietary and supplemental approaches can be taken to maintain high testosterone levels. Conwict of dat's board apparently is coming out with a book that is a compilation of this research, but I believe it is pricey.

BBG
11-05-2012, 08:18 PM
Agree with you H2, I think Eric was just getting into how he can optimize hormone levels. The Testosterone Recovery Stack was just the start. I think he wanted to really find a way that people could have top of range hormonal levels without needing to use TRT/HRT.

therealest77
11-05-2012, 08:37 PM
Like H2S said, if he comes up with a new company it would have to be very different, once you get on the governments radar you stay there, so they would always be in whatever he did. If it's hormonal.

I think he can still pull it off without being too different. Pa did it.....

therealest77
11-05-2012, 08:41 PM
I should have known he was looking into minerals when he said he started using MS's ZMK...

BBG
11-05-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm just hoping there isn't some kind of snowball effect, like all supp companies start going down or something

nate3993
11-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Agree with you H2, I think Eric was just getting into how he can optimize hormone levels. The Testosterone Recovery Stack was just the start. I think he wanted to really find a way that people could have top of range hormonal levels without needing to use TRT/HRT.

putting big pharma companies out on their ass when it came to trt. possible reason for fda raid? who knows. im way into conspiracy theories though.


and as to androbutter and alpha minerals, I was super stoked. everything i eat is essentially for optimizing my hormone levels first, then bodybuilding second. i wanna do everything i can do to have peak hormone levels so any natty supps that could be used daily would've been awesome. such a great company on the verge of huge things things. androseries was child's play in comparison to what eric had coming down the pipeline as far as I'm concerned. we all saw it so much, and lots used it, but no matter people having to use higher doses or some people not being responders, the androseries is/ was nothing short of amazing. i feel like side effect free hormones was essentially what was going to happen. my heart really goes out to the employees and eric. to go from owning the greatest supplement to moving in within his mom has got be one crazy shitty feeling. so much gov waste, and a great way to destroy a bunch of people's jobs.

maybe a supplement company with a ghost formulator is in the works :)

Rulk
11-05-2012, 09:25 PM
I'm going to miss Toco 8 the most. In 2009 my total cholesterol was over 200points. Last June I had it measured at just a hair over 100 points!

BBG
11-05-2012, 09:40 PM
Totally agree Nate.

ALIEN
11-05-2012, 10:53 PM
I thought you were joking about the androbutter and alpha minerals..Those sound like some very innovative ideas.

Does anyone know how many employees PP had?

Rulk
11-05-2012, 11:03 PM
roughly over 10 employees, maybe closer to 15.

burlyman30
11-06-2012, 12:13 AM
I'm going to miss Toco 8 the most. In 2009 my total cholesterol was over 200points. Last June I had it measured at just a hair over 100 points!

And you attribute this all to Toco 8? If so, that is pretty amazing.

Freepressright
11-06-2012, 08:14 AM
I'm hoping Eric re-emerges in this game as a much wiser, stronger player. It also sucks that this raid scared Prototype Nutrition into pulling their epiandrosterone spray. I hope it makes a comeback.

BBG
11-06-2012, 08:21 AM
I'm hoping Eric re-emerges in this game as a much wiser, stronger player. It also sucks that this raid scared Prototype Nutrition into pulling their epiandrosterone spray. I hope it makes a comeback.

It would be sweet to see him come over to Antaeus Labs lol

nate3993
11-06-2012, 10:44 AM
It would be sweet to see him come over to Antaeus Labs lol

i could back that. AL is a solid company, bring in a genius formulator, and viola, pure awesome. that's insane PA pulled his E-spray like that. seems a bit silly since the FDA already knows all that he does. if he's gonna pull that, then he should pull his preg spray, and 11 spray and what not. (not saying he should actually do this, just that those are just as hormonal as his e spray is)

h2s
11-06-2012, 10:48 AM
i could back that. AL is a solid company, bring in a genius formulator, and viola, pure awesome. that's insane PA pulled his E-spray like that. seems a bit silly since the FDA already knows all that he does. if he's gonna pull that, then he should pull his preg spray, and 11 spray and what not. (not saying he should actually do this, just that those are just as hormonal as his e spray is)

I think 11 was pulled, but I haven't checked. DHEA and Preg have way too much lobby support that it would be hard to go after just those two products.

nate3993
11-06-2012, 10:54 AM
I think 11 was pulled, but I haven't checked. DHEA and Preg have way too much lobby support that it would be hard to go after just those two products.

u sir are correct. no more 11 spray. dam. my friend was already bummed about no more lean and now he can't even buy the 11spray or e spray. this is gonna make him suuuuuper bummed. nothings helped the guy drop fat like lean has. i feel bad for the dude not being able to continue his journey with the lean.

Freepressright
11-06-2012, 01:42 PM
I think 11 was pulled, but I haven't checked. DHEA and Preg have way too much lobby support that it would be hard to go after just those two products.

I don't understand the impetus for pulling the E-spray. Epiandrosterone is not anabolic - androgenic, yes, but not anabolic. I put it on about the same level of controversy as DHEA.

Either way, it is one of few remaining epiandrosterone products on the market. It sucks with AndroHard being gone, that significantly limits your options for a DHT precursor.

nate3993
11-06-2012, 01:49 PM
I don't understand the impetus for pulling the E-spray. Epiandrosterone is not anabolic - androgenic, yes, but not anabolic. I put it on about the same level of controversy as DHEA.

Either way, it is one of few remaining epiandrosterone products on the market. It sucks with AndroHard being gone, that significantly limits your options for a DHT precursor.
forerunner's 1-alpha test looks pretty good.

Freepressright
11-06-2012, 01:56 PM
forerunner's 1-alpha test looks pretty good.

Wow, shit! I had no idea. Looks like a great product. Going to hafta do it! :)

BBG
11-06-2012, 04:15 PM
Wow, shit! I had no idea. Looks like a great product. Going to hafta do it! :)

Yeah forerunner isn't a bad alternative

Grape Ape
11-06-2012, 07:37 PM
You mean 5-Alpha Test?

Think LG just dropped a transdermal.
MMv3 Liquid/Spray combo by LG Sciences (http://www.tfsupplements.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4132)

meathead
11-06-2012, 08:09 PM
I am wondering now, after his "statement", if this will actually scare companies away from coming out with new products and altogether stopping production of anything hormonal. After reading what the FDA did to PP and Eric, If i was a company owner i would consider stopping while i was ahead. I mean, why risk losing all your inventory and everything you have worked for up until now... isn't that what patrick arnold has done recently as well? stopped producing his epiandrosterone spray? as sad as it is to see this, i think it's best for consumers so we don't lose these companies completely.

nate3993
11-16-2012, 01:52 PM
You mean 5-Alpha Test?

Think LG just dropped a transdermal.
MMv3 Liquid/Spray combo by LG Sciences (http://www.tfsupplements.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4132)
interesting. it's prolly pretty meh. i don't trust lg much anymore. their t9-11 tabs use to be a nice resveratrol product. now, it's shit. won't do jack for you. they had a good thing, and they fuked it up. it's so cheap for that fukin combo though so maybe it's worth a try. i dont know.

Grape Ape
11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
After pressing a rep to get info, the spray has 20mg epiandrosterone per dose; so fuck that.

The sublingual might be nice though. Can't be much differnt than the 5-Alpha Tabs.

nate3993
11-16-2012, 02:31 PM
After pressing a rep to get info, the spray has 20mg epiandrosterone per dose; so fuck that.

The sublingual might be nice though. Can't be much differnt than the 5-Alpha Tabs.

oh shit. 20mg per dose? which is 6 sprays. that's piss nothing. i saw u talking to the reps on AM. and as to it being not a whole lot different, they both use their own delivery methods. i mean, both are sublingual but ams uses their rde, and LG uses their Hydroxy-beta-propyl-cyclodextrin technology. my money is on ams having a better delivery. just by reading how people responded to the t9-11 and how people respond to the 5 alpha test. i'd go with the 5 alpha test.

markam
11-17-2012, 11:26 AM
Just came across this old thread with Patrick and Eric 'discussing' legality issues.

2?'s.....1) 7,8 Benzoflavone ....... 2) fertility................. (http://www.prohormoneforum.com/q-patrick-arnold/33199-2-s-1-7-8-benzoflavone-2-fertility.html)

Enuke65
01-12-2013, 06:35 PM
Have there been any updates? I know the PP site is essentially gone but what ended up going down? Aside from whats already been discussed here?

BBG
01-12-2013, 09:02 PM
Have there been any updates? I know the PP site is essentially gone but what ended up going down? Aside from whats already been discussed here?

I don't believe so.

h2s
01-14-2013, 07:38 AM
Have there been any updates? I know the PP site is essentially gone but what ended up going down? Aside from whats already been discussed here?

No...it will be a rather long process.

weekend
01-14-2013, 11:29 AM
Probably just in time for all the Andro to expire...

Scope75
01-14-2013, 11:49 AM
Probably just in time for all the Andro to expire...

I highly doubt PP will ever get any of the Andro Series back.
If PP does make a comeback as PP or another company I hope they bring back endoamp!!!

saludable24
01-14-2013, 12:08 PM
I've kinda figured that the FDA would sit on the products until they expire. What the hell ever happened to our right of due process in this country?

I understand the idea of multiple products for different health and/or PCT aspects, but I always wondered why PP didn't ever make a products that combined everything like the EndoAMP, Toco-8, etc in something like coconut oil so we could just grab 1 thing and be done instead of messing around with opening this container, then another for the toco, then 1 oral syring for this, then another for that. I would imagine that putting something like that together wouldn't be too hard.

nate3993
01-14-2013, 02:00 PM
I've kinda figured that the FDA would sit on the products until they expire. What the hell ever happened to our right of due process in this country?

I understand the idea of multiple products for different health and/or PCT aspects, but I always wondered why PP didn't ever make a products that combined everything like the EndoAMP, Toco-8, etc in something like coconut oil so we could just grab 1 thing and be done instead of messing around with opening this container, then another for the toco, then 1 oral syring for this, then another for that. I would imagine that putting something like that together wouldn't be too hard.

who says that wasn't in the works? not that i have information, just I know that eric was working on his complete male hormone solution, a test boosting mineral, test boosting butter, etc so who knows what all they had in the works

Macdon1588
01-14-2013, 02:51 PM
Let this be a lesson to everybody about the way the thug agencies that run the government really work. The FDA and the IRS rely on the size of their bureaucracy as a tool to ensure that people won't fight punitive actions. Primordial performance and other supplement companies could learn a lot from how illegal drug dealers operate:

You never sell from your stash house.
You always keep the product far from the sales front.
Never keep more supply on the sales floor then you're prepared to lose. Same goes for cash.
Have a plan for the heat. It should include enough cash to shift operations when the Feds crash your operation.

I don't think there's any denying that Eric is a genius, but he had no exit plan. Whenever you have a business that is subject to government regulatory exposure, it's always good to practice operational risk management. It's my belief that Eric believed that the government would actually follow a set of rules or prior practices, but there's no guarantee that they'll do that. This is why you see other industries, where there are inherent risks, are full of holding companies or parent companies, and limited partnerships. A good, but immoral, example is British Petroleum and the rig the Deep Horizon. Everybody thought that BP would go down in flames, but when the government went after BP, the government soon realized that there was a myriad of other companies through which BP deferred liability. Sure they lost a lot of money, maybe a years worth of profit when it was all said and done, but that company killed people and they're going to be walking away free. Just like lifting, form matters in business.