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View Full Version : OL Msten (Stenabol) and Progainz Epi-Andro (Transdermal) run



Spank
12-23-2014, 09:32 AM
Running Msten 20/20/20/20 Split twice per day w/ Transdermal (IL Salvo) Epiandro @ very roughly 333/333/333/333 applied once per day rotating application sites (Traps, upper chest & clavicle area, top of feet, forearm, inside of upper arm. I usually pick 2 not used day prior) Applications sites shaved and exfoliated immediately prior to application.

Support sups:
Iron Labs cycle support (Per label)
Additional Milk Thistle 2000 mg (split twice per day taken with MSten)
Taurine about 2-4 grams/day (More if back pumps/kidneys get mad)
Potassium Gluconate supp minuscule 90mg/day + at least 1 large banana/day (More if back pumps/kidneys get mad)
As much water as I can stomach, aiming for at least a gallon/day
Glucosamine/Chondroitin (per label)
Multi
Fish Oil
Prilosec
ALCAR beginning ~day 10 2g/day (Should be 4g but I'm lazy)
Tadalafil RC

Stats current -Age 28, 5'11, ~199lbs BF% untested but indicative of where my bulking goals have led me coupled with the Holiday meals.

I've been lifting since Summer 2001. Had a short 4 year stint as a fat stoner in my early 20's lol
SERM and AI on hand + emergency support supps in case I start growing titties (Love them on my girl, not a fan of dudes with tits though)

Initial thoughts
First few days gave increased body temperature increased sweating dry mouth (Increased water intake)
Severe pumps/kidney discomfort on Leg day (Squat followed by DL could not finish DL/Weak core to begin with) Increased H20,K, and added Taurine+more core work
Occasional cold chill
Gas
Joint dryness
Mild irritability that needs to be checked on occasion (Emotional enhancement in general) (Stress level is already unhealthy)
Increased libido (Beyond just tadalafil)
My boys do seem to be shrinking :(

all sides seem to have subsided except for:
Sweating, occasional cold chill, gas, joint dryness (worst when sitting for long periods of time/not currently affecting workouts), mild irritability, mild back pumps/kidney pain that prevent high volume lower back work

Gained 7lbs first week strength went up a little
Week 2 has seen weight maintenance while getting leaner. Feeling of fullness/muscle hardness. "Alpha" feeling. Strength continuing to increase (I run high volume programs and work capacity has increased as well) Starting to get much better pumps. Noticeable mass growth.

Goals were to hit 200 with sub 15% BF-Will test at the end although I feel confident that at this pace I will exceed goals.
I keep a workout log and will update with numbers at the end.
I'm admittedly terrible at logging nutrition, but gain weight easily. Trying to hit protein Macro and keep carbs really low.

Scope75
12-23-2014, 09:52 AM
In...
Have a similar stack so I'll follow along.

Cobalt
12-23-2014, 10:15 AM
Sounds like a solid stack, should be worth the run.

Spank
12-27-2014, 12:23 PM
Today is day 19. Christmas food put me up to 203lbs lol
Workouts have been stellar. Almost unbelievable strength gains that I haven't seen this pronounced for as long as I can remember.
I will say that this has caused me some unexpected problems. I wear dress clothes for work, and dress with well fitting clothes. Well thankfully Christmas brought me some new clothing items because my thighs and chest no longer fit into my clothes. Had to go up a neck size in dress shirts and will need to go up a size in pants. My waist size is not growing as fast as my thighs, which is going to get pretty awkward for dress clothes unless I have them tailored.
I am hesitant to begin cutting mid cycle though. I am impressed.
I am usually pretty sensitive to carbs but this stack has really helped me with gaining LBM versus just getting fatter.
I'm really looking forward to seeing just how far this stack will take me, and even more excited for my next cutting cycle. I am really looking forward to being the biggest guy on the beach.
This stack is really helping me find areas of weakness by increasing my strength so much.
I have not had a dedicated arm day in my routine until recently, and I am really starting to notice that my arms are beginning to prevent my back and chest from really getting fatigued.
My legs are fucking blowing up too!
I have also been lifting more frequently. I used to lift every other day due to working and school, but recently began working from home and being on winter break. I am now lifting 5--6 days /week. Despite not being 100% recovered before my next session I am still stronger each time I hit the same body part. It is really blowing me away. I am going to continue to push the limits of over training until my pct is finished and run a deload week my first week out of PCT then goes balls out again.

Cobalt
12-27-2014, 03:17 PM
Just make sure you keep your diet going strong. Going to need those calories to keep on the size and energy.

weekend
12-27-2014, 03:39 PM
post up a pic pronto and we can tell you whether to cut or not

Spank
12-27-2014, 05:40 PM
Just make sure you keep your diet going strong. Going to need those calories to keep on the size and energy.


post up a pic pronto and we can tell you whether to cut or not

I'll have to get back to you on the photo. I just took a break from working to pop second Msten dose followed by ~1.5 quarts of water, so I'm a little bloated now lol. IMO i have faired much better with Christmas than I did Thanksgiving, so I know the PH's are really allowing me to burn up some food. I have been sort of lazy with cardio lately so I will just go back to my usual cardio and continue eating above normal. I'll see what scheduling will allow as far as getting access to having my body fat measured on Monday.

When measuring body parts (like say one has 18' arms) what is the standard op procedure for that?
Would it be first thing in the am upon waking? Flexed?

I had a great back day yesterday and have spent all day today working (Sitting on my ass). All I can think about is fucking lifting NOW! Instead of being sore and not wanting to move, I feel almost like I'm aching to get some resistance on my my muscles.

The transdermal epi/MSten dose in the AM just has me feeling ready to fuck shit up lol

GYMnTONIC.com
12-28-2014, 04:30 PM
Awesome man.

One thing I regret is never having had an Msten transdermal. I would love to see how that would have worked!

Spank
12-30-2014, 03:38 PM
Awesome man.

One thing I regret is never having had an Msten transdermal. I would love to see how that would have worked!

I'm running the Msten oral for this go around, but that would be something to consider. Despite gaining solid weight, I feel smaller than ever after I watched some training videos of Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman.
I do have 5 bottles of salvo in a drawer lol... I definitely spent more on myself than anyone else this Christmas thanks to all the craziness....

So on day 20 (12/29/14) I ran a leg day and decided to compare my training numbers from before the cycle began. The reference day is the beginning of a new program of double progression that I had started. Here are the stats.
To clarify the use of "New" the exercises are the same. The rep scheme is the only change. I had always run 12/10/8/6 type programs then switched to a very brief 5x5x5(Saw strength gains lost endurance) then about a 4 week 5 sets of 12 high volume.(saw endurance gains lost strength)

Leg day Breakdown:
Exercise 1: Barbell Back Squats (Probably used belt because my core is weak and my squats suck enough as is)
12/6/14:
135lbs x 12reps
135lbs x 12reps
135lbs x 12reps
135lbs x 11reps
135lbs x 10reps
Total Volume 7695lbs

12/29/14 (W/ belt):
155lbs x 12reps
155lbs x 12reps
155lbs x 12reps
155lbs x 12reps
155lbs x 12reps
Total Volume 9300lbs = +1605lbs over 12/6/14

Exercise 2: Romanian Deadlifts
12/6/14:
185lbs x 6
185lbs x 6
135lbs x 8
135lbs x 8

12/29/14
Dropped from leg day due to back pain.

Exercise 3: Hammer Leg Press (assuming 0lbs sled weight)
12/6/14:
180lbs x 12 2160
230lbs x 10 2300
270lbs x 6 1620
90lbs x 15 1350
Total Volume 7430lbs

12/29/14:
230lbs x 12 2760
255lbs x 10 2550
280lbs x 8 2240
375lbs x 6 2250
Total Volume 9800lbs = +2370lbs over 12/6/14

Exercise 4: Toe raises for the anterior tib
12/6/14:
45lbs x 15
45lbs x 12
45lbs x 12
45lbs x 12

12/29/14:
45lbs x 12
45lbs x 15
45lbs x 12
45lbs x 15

Exercise 5: Smith machine calf raises from a deficit (Assuming bar weight of 15lbs)
12/6/14 Single leg + body weight of ~193 lbs +/-2
15lbs x 10
35lbs x 10
45lbs x 10
Both legs x max set=225lbs (did not write rep # i can guess it was probably 10-15)

12/29/14: Both legs + body weight of 199 lbs +/-2
105lbs x 12
195lbs x 12
245lbs x 10
265lbs x 10
drop set 105lbs x 12

Exercise 6: Leg Extension Single leg
12/6/14:
40lbs x 12
55lbs x 9
45lbs x 10
30lbs x 10

12/29/14:
70lbs x 12
70lbs x 12
60lbs x 12
60lbs x 12

Exercise 7: Kneeling single leg curl machine (Supersetted with exercise 6)
12/6/14:
40lbs x 12
50lbs x 12
50lbs x 5 dropped to 40lbs x 5
30lbs x 12

12/29/14:
65lbs x 12
65lbs x 12
60lbs x 12
55lbs x 12

I am lifting again tonight but have changed my workouts a little now that I can lift more frequently so the results may not translate quite as well for the sake of direct comparison.
The numbers don't lie though. Consistent PR's each week.
I have been experiencing greater fatigue than usual upon waking, which could be the result of Msten being dosed without the epiandro in the evening or the beginnings of over training symptoms so I took yesterday off and watched bodybuilding videos instead of lifting lol.


I have also noticed a strange symptom that is developing. It is the ever so slight bloated feeling, as if my digestive system doesn't want to "flow." I generally run a fiber deficit, which probably isn't helping, so I have supplemented with fiber today and will attempt to eat more fibrous veggies. I'll probably also pop some probiotic enzymes. Even if it doesn't help I'll be able to gross my girlfriend out on the ride to the gym by farting and locking the windows later tonight.:D
I have noticed that my body will tell me if I am not getting enough water with the Msten. Definitely be conscious of that if you are trying it for your first time.
I will disclaim that my stomach has already been shown to be very sensitive to the most random foods at times, so I expected more digestive sides to be honest.

I'm hesitant to say this, but this is actually my first cycle. I've read specifically that this is a terrible first cycle, and so I don't really want to endorse some kid gobbling this shit up and partying on the weekends, but I am satisfied with the results vs noticeable sides. The joint dryness is either better or I have become used to it.
I guess the most important thing I can share from my experience thus far is that orals are definitely hard on the body, and sides can prevent you from getting more out of your workouts if you don't take the time to listen to your body and manage them.

Spank
12-30-2014, 08:06 PM
So I have yet to hit the gym yet because I am waiting for the old lady to get off work to join me.
With the addition of the fiber supplement my digestive sides are feeling better already. I'm really hoping that this cycle will continue to help me identify areas of weakness that I can improve to help me hold onto gains after PCT.
I also felt a little froggy with the fatigue side and added a pm dose of 300mgs oral epiandro to see if that will help with fatigue.
I definitely felt the initial libido boost upon my first oral dose of epiandro. Hopefully I can test out the potential benefits tonight lol.

Spank
01-04-2015, 12:40 PM
Just a quick update.
Strength is still going up and sides seem to be subsiding. I had a really great back day with PRs on every lift.
Stomach issues are gone with better fiber intake.
I have noticed reduced flexibility, but I have always sucked at consistently stretching and foam rolling. I will be sure to focus on this more in future runs and in general.
I'm up to 206lbs as of yesterday. I believe i was 197lbs at the end of a 4-6 week natty bulk that wasn't as clean as my usual diet thanks to the holidays.
Last stummer is was a pretty lean 184lbs, so I would like to be able to hit 195lbs with single digit bodyfat % by next summer.
I really liked the addition of the pm epiandro dose and have continued that at 300mg oral in the pm. I originally kept the transdermal dosage to once a day to prevent transfer to my gf in the evenings.
I enjoy the transdermal applications, but I have come to the conclusion that it is probably a waste of salvo going forward.
I have been parachuting (no time to cap) raw epiandro powder in the pm followed by a guaranteed random boner within 30 minutes lol pretty awesome actually.
Being 28 and natty, I had just recently begun experiencing a sustained drop in libido and seemed to stagnate in the gym, so I am really excited to have some vitality restored to my life.

I would really like to have a solid plan for a summer cut maybe if I can find some Trenavar I would like to run that 60/60/90/90/120/120 with Epiandro 300/300/300/600/600/600 and transdermal trest 50/50/100/100/100.

I might be able to squeeze in another small bulk or recomp depending on how PCT and equal time on/time off goes.

I really hate carrying a lot of extra bodyfat but the strength increases are really welcome.
I'm starting to get sad to see how empty my Stenabol bottle is, but I am looking forward to using the knowledge gleaned from this run for both off and on cycle in the future.
I am beginning to wonder if the early pronounced sides were a result of refusing to taper up dosages for my first cycle combined with some bad dietary habits. All in all I am satisfied with the sides I have experienced. The back pumps are annoying, but that just gives me more motivation to really push my deadlifts off cycle. I may add good mornings back in my routine and maybe hit some rack pulls to really keep the lower back challenged when off.

Spank
01-07-2015, 09:17 AM
Blood pressure has been pretty high recently, and I can't stand to be on a treadmill for longer than 5 minutes. I had to switch to cycling for cardio. Seems the pumps are so crazy that I struggle to maintain my heart rate above 130 bpm.
I was up to 209, and have a feeling that I will keep gaining. Definitely an impressive combination, save for the bloating I wish I could keep going.
I am excited to really dial everything in for my next run with this stack to focus more on clean eating to see what I can do next time.
I think that I underestimated the strength gains with this and could have progressed faster. I really wish I had an assistant/trainer that could help me go past muscle failure. With that said, I'm not sure how the tendons and ligaments would tolerate a faster progression, but I know the muscle strength was much more pronounced than I expected running a volume routine.
Blood pressure 2 days ago was 148/90 as measured by a trained professional who grimaced and asked if i was taking anything that I knew would increase blood pressure.

Spank
01-08-2015, 09:03 PM
Final weigh in was 211.6.
I started at 197.
I really want to run this combo again later this year.
I am thinking upping the support supps and focusing more on meal planning and prep to really dial everything in to run this for 6 weeks. 4 weeks seems like a teaser almost. I will be more aggressive with adding weight next time as well.
All in all I am very satisfied with these compounds.

Some other random thoughts I've had since I graduated from Tribulus lol:
There are many more guys and girls in my gym that are "on" than I would've guessed. Pretty much everyone I have envied in my gym has telltale signs that are clear as day now. I know a few of the older regulars noticed how much size I gained too.
I'm so glad I decided to take the plunge because I used to be so envious to the point of frustration that I just could not get as big as these other guys in my gym. It used to piss me off so much, but I let that fuel my workouts. The discipline I've built from the frustration of comparing myself to guys who aren't natty has really motivated me, and seeing them looking smaller comparatively after this run is going to motivate me to push through PCT to hold onto as much as I can.

Even my worst workout is better than the best time I had sitting on my couch high as fuck.

I've really grown accustomed to eating on a bulk diet though. Cutting for next summer here in a month or two is going to suuuuuuuuuuuuckkkk.

Hat tip to Progainz and SoCal who have excellent customer service. I have to admit PG appeared pretty sketchy at times over the past few months (website change). I'm glad I took that risk though, because I got way more for my money (I purchased my Msten from Olympus at a time when PG did not have any listed and actually intended to purchase a different brand initially.). Also hat tip to the regulars here. The search function has been really useful, and I have gotten a lot of insight on how to make this run successful because of previous posts.

Spank
01-09-2015, 09:03 PM
1/9/15 day 2 of PCT
Began DAA ~3 grams

I had a leg day last night, Strength is still up, but I feel weaker if that makes any sense. Also still experiencing joint dryness and severe back pumps because I got lazy with side management because sides almost completely subsided.
Delayed Onset Muscle soreness has markedly increased.

I'm being more careful with diet to make sure I get enough protein and don't drop weight too much. I would rather keep my strength and gain a little BF I guess over losing muscle gains. I am super excited to grow my balls lol and hit the next cycle.

Spank
01-22-2015, 06:07 PM
Week 2 of PCT began yesterday,
On the last day of week 1 I had a killer leg day.
Due to neglecting my deadlifts for a few weeks, I decided to place them as my first exercise just in case my back still wanted to be a bitch.
I ended up pulling 365, which is 20lbs more than my pre-cycle PR, and I know I could've hit at least another 10 lbs. My squats suffered slightly from the exercise order, but I hit a PR on leg press after squats.

I crashed my E the first few days of PCT and have been experiencing some wrist pain recently.

I am holding steady at 206-208 lbs although my bodyfat percentage has increased in PCT. I plan to reluctantly maintain this weight for the rest of PCT plus 2 weeks.

I have increased natty supplement use to try to speed recovery, but my balls have come back to normal size already.
Between the size of my balls and crashed E I am confident in my ancillaries.

Strength is still there, but scheduling and crashed E related fatigue had a negative impact on strength for a couple late night workouts.