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View Full Version : Testofen - I think it sucks, personally



Freepressright
12-24-2014, 09:27 AM
I've really come to hate Testofen.

I have used it probably close to 10 times over the last six or seven years. Gencor commissioned a study that became the basis for lauding it for improvements to free T levels. That may be, but the one thing I've found the last four times I've used it is that it shuts down my sex drive entirely -- to the point that even a PDE-5 inhibitor isn't of much assistance because there's just no damned interest there.

Some say it raises prolactin. That might explain a lot. The loss of libido was so bad from it the last time I used it that I ordered pharma-grade Caber and even it didn't have much of a pronounced effect.

I've also seen some critics say it's estrogenic. I don't know about that. But one thing's for sure, it kills my sex drive as badly as 1-DHEA ever did.

Sad thing is, it leveled out my blood sugar quite effectively. I had zero post-meal crashes on it. But nothing in this world is worth losing my interest in sex. Anyone else ever have this happen?

Dragoninho
12-24-2014, 10:48 AM
Kind of funny, but I started to think about that I almost never liked different T-boosters with Testofen in it just for a couple of weeks ago.
Never responded good to any of them, more or less.
Read something, soldaters (can't remember where though) about that fenugreek actually lowers DHT.
I don't like things that lowers DHT!

Would love to try a nice T-booster in my upcoming PCT.

hossam
12-24-2014, 11:16 AM
for me after each cycle i have to use a different T booster
then the one i used before as it will not do any effect for me the second time i use it
i tried Fenugreek an also it didn't do anything for me, also it made my
sweat smells the same!

Strong_Guy
12-24-2014, 11:24 AM
Interesting. When I've used Testofen (with 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy-Isoflavone in PP's Phyto Test and also as an ingredient in other products) I always have pretty good luck. Granted I would have to run for 8 weeks since it takes about 4 for it to kick in, because I will say for the first half I don't feel much of anything. But after it kicks in it is the closest PH like feeling (for me) out of anything natty I've tried. This last year I ran a natty stack of Phyto Test, AAKG, and creatine and got some great results; strength, pumps, endurance, libido, all were going strong. I'm actually planning this exact same stack between cycles this year, and maybe with some Epic Gainz :cool: .

On a side note, I'd really like to try the 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy-Isoflavone solo sometime just to isolate those effects and see how I respond. I'm actually thinking about suggesting it for my wife once she gets back into training hard. Curious in what ways this, and even Testofen, could potentially benefit the ladies.

weekend
12-24-2014, 02:34 PM
I really liked phytotest.

entropy
12-24-2014, 06:32 PM
Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

O.N.
12-25-2014, 12:23 AM
LOL gencor human trial....I laugh at this,

here is the PDF of the trial: testofen-human-trial PDF (http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/supplement-reviews/181d1239811163-testofen-human-trial-testofenhumanstudy2-1-.pdf)

Do you see any doctors names attached, even a university name?......lol

The results are bullshit, we can get guys to take res100 that have middle level testosterone and then it is high range say a 50% increase, we have also seen blood work in the low range and then 30 days later it is high range over 300% increase....lol

the fact the study is so similar for all participants it's bullshit. The results should vary a lot from person to person.

This PDF is just as good as me opening up a PDF creator filling it out like they have change the logo to Wicked Supplements and change the product name.

This has ZERO credentials. It's false.

Freepressright
12-25-2014, 05:17 PM
Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

This makes a LOT of sense. I was not aware of its impact upon DHT levels, but now that you mention it, it all fits.

When I was taking it, and in the weeks or more that followed, I couldn't get jack shit for a pump working out. Normally I can get decent pumps without a preworkout or vasodilator, but not after this stuff.

Cdsnuts
12-26-2014, 07:37 AM
Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

Can you provide sources for this? I've always used and gotten great results from Phyto-test, which is the only fenugreek product I've ever used. I still have two bottles left that I was planning on running for my natty winter cycle coming up in a month or so. I always ran/run it with Sustain alpha/Res100 along with toco and endoamp. That was always my PCT of choice including D-aspartic acid as well. Sometimes depending on the cycle before hand I would actually feel better on the PCT.

Perhaps there is another mechanism at play here other then 5ar? I say this because if my 5ar is being inhibited, I start getting anxiety pretty quickly. I've never had that with Phytotest.

entropy
12-26-2014, 08:43 AM
Can you provide sources for this? I've always used and gotten great results from Phyto-test, which is the only fenugreek product I've ever used. I still have two bottles left that I was planning on running for my natty winter cycle coming up in a month or so. I always ran/run it with Sustain alpha/Res100 along with toco and endoamp. That was always my PCT of choice including D-aspartic acid as well. Sometimes depending on the cycle before hand I would actually feel better on the PCT.

Perhaps there is another mechanism at play here other then 5ar? I say this because if my 5ar is being inhibited, I start getting anxiety pretty quickly. I've never had that with Phytotest.

As for fenugreek, I've found these:
Does Fenugreek Boost Testosterone? - Unbiased Supplement Reviews (http://suppwiththat.com/does-fenugreek-boost-testosterone.html)
Fenugreek and Testosterone: Seeds Boost T but Block DHT (http://anabolicmen.com/fenugreek-testosterone/)
Fenugreek: studies show no anabolic effect but effects body composition - Nutrient Journal (http://nutrientjournal.com/fenugreek-studies-show-no-anabolic-effect-but-affects-body-composition/)

No official looking studies, but enough that I've chosen to avoid the stuff.

Just to throw something else out there, aren't you a big fan of coconut oil? Most free fatty acids also inhibit 5ar.
Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19353546)
Inhibition of type 1 and type 2 5alpha-reductase activity by free f... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477490)

It's definitely interesting and a little scary just how many compounds seem to inhibit 5ar.

Cdsnuts
12-26-2014, 10:31 AM
As for fenugreek, I've found these:
Does Fenugreek Boost Testosterone? - Unbiased Supplement Reviews (http://suppwiththat.com/does-fenugreek-boost-testosterone.html)
Fenugreek and Testosterone: Seeds Boost T but Block DHT (http://anabolicmen.com/fenugreek-testosterone/)
Fenugreek: studies show no anabolic effect but effects body composition - Nutrient Journal (http://nutrientjournal.com/fenugreek-studies-show-no-anabolic-effect-but-affects-body-composition/)

No official looking studies, but enough that I've chosen to avoid the stuff.

Just to throw something else out there, aren't you a big fan of coconut oil? Most free fatty acids also inhibit 5ar.
Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19353546)
Inhibition of type 1 and type 2 5alpha-reductase activity by free f... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477490)

It's definitely interesting and a little scary just how many compounds seem to inhibit 5ar.

I've heard that about coconut oil as well, but again, no negative reactions whatsoever.

entropy
12-26-2014, 10:42 AM
Me either, actually. I'd never post this over there but I've reqd a few studies that suggest 17-b estradiol is an incredibly potent 5ari. My train of thought lately is prolonged 5ar inhibition = excessive estradiol = persistent 5ar inhibition. It would explain a lot.

Freepressright
12-26-2014, 01:41 PM
Me either, actually. I'd never post this over there but I've reqd a few studies that suggest 17-b estradiol is an incredibly potent 5ari. My train of thought lately is prolonged 5ar inhibition = excessive estradiol = persistent 5ar inhibition. It would explain a lot.

I have had non-existent libido several times on fenugreek. But this last time was the worst. It is almost classic symptoms of you guys who were injured by finasteride.

Morning erections, gone. Random erections, never. I had difficulty getting aroused. I just plain had no interest in sex. Maintaining an erection was difficult because I just couldn't keep myself interested. And I felt no desire to self service in the off time.

I started to become more emotional. I lost my alpha feeling. My muscle tissue became softer and I couldn't get a pump worth a shit while working out. Another thing that was really pronounced that I had never felt before was a lack of interest in working out. I would get to the gym and no matter what I did beforehand or how focused I tried to be, I had an insatiable desire to leave early. None of my lifts felt good. I had no mental encouragement. It was fucking awful.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys?

And in the weeks, or month or more after ceasing, I was still feeling this. I'm finally starting to normalize, but with assistance.

The fucking men's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every fucking product, even god damn multivitamins, have either saw palmetto or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common misnomers in marketing.

Fuck Testofen. I will never take this shit ever again.

/End rant

entropy
12-26-2014, 02:11 PM
Yep. Still don't get morning wood all that often or randoms ever. Balls shrank considerably (theyre back now thank god) , libido vanished, skin stopped being oilly etc. I'm still dealing with some residual stuff but it seems to cycle in an upward trend.

The worst part for me was the sleep though, when it came to the time I'd go to bed, I'd sleep for maybe one cycle and then I'd wake up and spend 6+ hours tossing and turning before giving up. It didn't actually go away until I started following cds regime.
From what I've read, cds had it much worse than I did though. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I know what you mean about the war on dht, my doc told me "dht has no physiological role in the male body after puberty." Bull.


- Do you mind if I ask what you mean by "With assistance?" I've expanded on cds protocol a few times now based upon a few other guys who managed to recover, my own experimentation etc, I'd love to hear what you're doing to speed up your recovery.

I think we need to rename this stuff "Post 5ari Syndrome", it seems a small portion of men (and women) have horrible experiences with inhibiting the reductase enzyme one way or another. So far I've found men and women suffering the same symptoms from Dutasteride, Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Accutane, Progestin/Estradiol Based birth control.

Freepressright
12-26-2014, 02:30 PM
Yep. Still don't get morning wood all that often or randoms ever. Balls shrank considerably (theyre back now thank god) , libido vanished, skin stopped being oilly etc. I'm still dealing with some residual stuff but it seems to cycle in an upward trend.

The worst part for me was the sleep though, when it came to the time I'd go to bed, I'd sleep for maybe one cycle and then I'd wake up and spend 6+ hours tossing and turning before giving up. It didn't actually go away until I started following cds regime.
From what I've read, cds had it much worse than I did though. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I know what you mean about the war on dht, my doc told me "dht has no physiological role in the male body after puberty." Bull.

That doctor, and thousands of others like him, is completely misinformed about andrology. And that's why it's such a challenge for guys to get quality TRT protocols prescribed. Most physicians are absolutely retarded when it comes to TRT and male hormones.

DHT is the very hormone that makes you male. Your body hair, your deep voice and most of your masculine characteristics all come from DHT.

I've come to the conclusion that if I ever need TRT, I'd be better off self medicating. 250 grams a week of Test E in two doses with the proper dose of AI's and I'd be in better shape than most people getting TRT from doctors who play around with protocols that are completely incorrect.

Freepressright
12-26-2014, 02:36 PM
To get halfway normal again I used the following:

-The power of time
-Tocotrienols for LH sensitivity
-90% tribulus @ 500mg 3x daily
-Bulk LongJack (Tongkat Ali) 3x daily
-D3 at 10,000 IUs daily
-N-methyl D-aspartic Acid per label
-Icariin-based product known as Tropinol XP per label
-Caber

This protocol started pulling me out of it. But honest to god, it's one of the worst things I've ever experienced.

entropy
12-26-2014, 03:11 PM
Thats incredibly similar to what I'm already doing, it's amazing how much these herbal supps can change things huh? I cycle pretty much all of those things, a different supplement every day:

Tongkat
Macuna
Icariin
Trib
Avena Sativa
Catuaba Bark
Rhodiola
Ashwaganda

Then the daily supplements like 5000iu d3, a crapload of fish oil, a good multi and some magnesium before bed. Waiting on another bottle of Tocosorb atm, it's pretty impossible to find a decent Tocotrienol product over here. Very annoying.

I'm waiting for a bottle of res100 atm and some DAA, thinking I'm going to trial that for a month, then switch back to my cycling for a bit and then -maybe- consider running the bottle of Androhard v3 I've got stashed away, mostly cause it sounds fun as hell more than for the fin sides now but I don't think it can hurt really.

Cdsnuts
12-26-2014, 04:17 PM
The fucking men's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every fucking product, even god damn multivitamins, have either saw palmetto or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common misnomers in marketing.

/End rant

It always amazes me that people don't understand this simple point. How did it become "known" that DHT was causing prostate problems? This shit is totally backwards.

Which testofen product did you use?

tallstraw
12-26-2014, 04:27 PM
"The power of time"





...lulz

Cdsnuts
12-27-2014, 09:53 AM
"The power of time"





...lulz

Don't under estimate this. It's a major component of healing.

tallstraw
12-27-2014, 10:47 AM
I just wasn't expecting it is all

Freepressright
12-29-2014, 12:26 PM
Ran across an article earlier that cited a Pubmed study link on the effect of sorghum on DHT. Turns out there's evidence that it significantly increases the enzyme 5-a reductase, and thus, boosts DHT levels.

The study cited in the article said that sorghum increased 5-a enzyme expression by 54% in vitro

STUDY HERE:

Phenotypic classification of male pseudohermaphroditism due to ster... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8723114)

Entropy, CD, were you guys aware of this?

entropy
12-29-2014, 06:44 PM
Ran across an article earlier that cited a Pubmed study link on the effect of sorghum on DHT. Turns out there's evidence that it significantly increases the enzyme 5-a reductase, and thus, boosts DHT levels.

The study cited in the article said that sorghum increased 5-a enzyme expression by 54% in vitro

STUDY HERE:

Phenotypic classification of male pseudohermaphroditism due to ster... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8723114)

Entropy, CD, were you guys aware of this?

I was aware but I'm not entirely sure how to use it. I was thinking about grabbing some Sorghum flour and maybe baking with it when carb night rolls around?

Cdsnuts
12-29-2014, 07:03 PM
Was not aware.

weekend
12-29-2014, 07:31 PM
getting on the protein pancakes pronto

sorghum flour
coconut flour
baking powder
frozen blueberries
whole eggs
cottage cheese

hope its good.

ill let yall know how it goes

Freepressright
12-30-2014, 07:12 AM
I'll be anxiously awaiting report on your results. The study results came over a three-month period.

On another note, we ask the question how testosterone and DHT ever got implicated in prostatic hyperplasia and prostate cancer. I decided to look it up yesterday. Turns out, all the bullshit spewed by many medical providers and completely exploited by the nutrition industry was based on ONE, yes ONE study done in 1941.

This breakthrough study didn't even use people, for Christ's sake. It used dogs.

That study concluded that dogs with no gonads have no problems with their prostates, therefore humans who have low testosterone ie. “inactive testicles” should also be protected from the horrible effects of enlarged prostate. Some real science right there, right?

How in the fuck is a medical study on dogs that was conducted SEVEN decades ago still being believed as factual medicine today? This goes back to what I said earlier, though, about most doctors being illiterate of andrology. That's why we saw Burlyman last year struggling with TRT protocols that should have been a no brainer and easily resolved.

Luckily, a doc with some common sense started exploring all studies on the subject of testosterone and prostate enlargement over a 66-year period and concluded that there has never been a scientific basis for the belief that testosterone causes prostate enlargement.

STUDY LINK HERE: Testosterone and Prostate Cancer: An Historical Perspective on a Modern Myth - European Urology (http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838%2806%2900787-1/fulltext/testosterone-and-prostate-cancer-an-historical-perspective-on-a-modern-myth)

Looking at it closer, he found that men with low test were actually the ones having prostatic issues. He also concluded that men with low T who are undergoing TRT see big improvements in their prostate health when their test goes up (probably provided E2 is under control).

A Harvard study essentially agreed: Is low serum free testosterone a marker for high grade prostate can... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687985)

And so did this one, from Africa: Low serum testosterone and a younger age predict for a poor outcome... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9391550)

Let's not leave out the Germans: [Testosterone replacement therapy and prostate cancer. The current ... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19296069)

And with that, I'll throw out a big FUCK YOU to the idiot supplement manufacturers who exploit this myth and contribute to the war on DHT with their saw palmetto, pumpkin seed and other bullshit DHT controllers in supposedly pro-testosterone supplements.

entropy
12-30-2014, 09:50 PM
This is pretty typical for the medical industry. I'm not sure about you guys but here in the UK, the ranges for Total T are about eighty years old and taken from one group of around 100 men of various ages. According to the ranges providing a 25 year old man with 11nmol (317ng) and a man with 25nmol (720ng) are both equally healthy.

It's awful really.

Cdsnuts
12-31-2014, 10:53 AM
I'll be anxiously awaiting report on your results. The study results came over a three-month period.

On another note, we ask the question how testosterone and DHT ever got implicated in prostatic hyperplasia and prostate cancer. I decided to look it up yesterday. Turns out, all the bullshit spewed by many medical providers and completely exploited by the nutrition industry was based on ONE, yes ONE study done in 1941.

This breakthrough study didn't even use people, for Christ's sake. It used dogs.

That study concluded that dogs with no gonads have no problems with their prostates, therefore humans who have low testosterone ie. “inactive testicles” should also be protected from the horrible effects of enlarged prostate. Some real science right there, right?

How in the fuck is a medical study on dogs that was conducted SEVEN decades ago still being believed as factual medicine today? This goes back to what I said earlier, though, about most doctors being illiterate of andrology. That's why we saw Burlyman last year struggling with TRT protocols that should have been a no brainer and easily resolved.

Luckily, a doc with some common sense started exploring all studies on the subject of testosterone and prostate enlargement over a 66-year period and concluded that there has never been a scientific basis for the belief that testosterone causes prostate enlargement.

STUDY LINK HERE: Testosterone and Prostate Cancer: An Historical Perspective on a Modern Myth - European Urology (http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838%2806%2900787-1/fulltext/testosterone-and-prostate-cancer-an-historical-perspective-on-a-modern-myth)

Looking at it closer, he found that men with low test were actually the ones having prostatic issues. He also concluded that men with low T who are undergoing TRT see big improvements in their prostate health when their test goes up (probably provided E2 is under control).

A Harvard study essentially agreed: Is low serum free testosterone a marker for high grade prostate can... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687985)

And so did this one, from Africa: Low serum testosterone and a younger age predict for a poor outcome... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9391550)

Let's not leave out the Germans: [Testosterone replacement therapy and prostate cancer. The current ... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19296069)

And with that, I'll throw out a big FUCK YOU to the idiot supplement manufacturers who exploit this myth and contribute to the war on DHT with their saw palmetto, pumpkin seed and other bullshit DHT controllers in supposedly pro-testosterone supplements.
Great work man.

Cdsnuts
12-31-2014, 11:11 AM
Wonder if this would do the trick.....

Redbridge beer label - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=Redbridge+beer+label&biw=1280&bih=620&tbm=isch&imgil=Rs0p-eZm1MhcmM%253A%253BpgyuWMFPnn9WZM%253Bhttp%25253A% 25252F%25252Fwww.haightstreetmarket.com%25252Fdepa rtment-detail.php%25253Fid%2525253D9%25252526keywords%252 5253DBeer_%25252526_Wine&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Rs0p-eZm1MhcmM%253A%252CpgyuWMFPnn9WZM%252C_&usg=__8Pt0KIJ8S_DXmfpHioQuPZpMq_g%3D&ved=0CEMQyjc&ei=Iy6kVMLWB8qXyASu84GgAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Rs0p-eZm1MhcmM%253A%3BpgyuWMFPnn9WZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fwww.haightstreetmarket.com%252Fuserfiles%252Fim ages%252Fredbridge.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ha ightstreetmarket.com%252Fdepartment-detail.php%253Fid%253D9%2526keywords%253DBeer_%252 6_Wine%3B425%3B231)

English
02-13-2015, 09:08 AM
I'll be anxiously awaiting report on your results. The study results came over a three-month period.

On another note, we ask the question how testosterone and DHT ever got implicated in prostatic hyperplasia and prostate cancer. I decided to look it up yesterday. Turns out, all the bullshit spewed by many medical providers and completely exploited by the nutrition industry was based on ONE, yes ONE study done in 1941.

This breakthrough study didn't even use people, for Christ's sake. It used dogs.

That study concluded that dogs with no gonads have no problems with their prostates, therefore humans who have low testosterone ie. “inactive testicles” should also be protected from the horrible effects of enlarged prostate. Some real science right there, right?

How in the fuck is a medical study on dogs that was conducted SEVEN decades ago still being believed as factual medicine today? This goes back to what I said earlier, though, about most doctors being illiterate of andrology. That's why we saw Burlyman last year struggling with TRT protocols that should have been a no brainer and easily resolved.

Luckily, a doc with some common sense started exploring all studies on the subject of testosterone and prostate enlargement over a 66-year period and concluded that there has never been a scientific basis for the belief that testosterone causes prostate enlargement.

STUDY LINK HERE: Testosterone and Prostate Cancer: An Historical Perspective on a Modern Myth - European Urology (http://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838%2806%2900787-1/fulltext/testosterone-and-prostate-cancer-an-historical-perspective-on-a-modern-myth)

Looking at it closer, he found that men with low test were actually the ones having prostatic issues. He also concluded that men with low T who are undergoing TRT see big improvements in their prostate health when their test goes up (probably provided E2 is under control).

A Harvard study essentially agreed: Is low serum free testosterone a marker for high grade prostate can... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687985)

And so did this one, from Africa: Low serum testosterone and a younger age predict for a poor outcome... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9391550)

Let's not leave out the Germans: [Testosterone replacement therapy and prostate cancer. The current ... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19296069)

And with that, I'll throw out a big FUCK YOU to the idiot supplement manufacturers who exploit this myth and contribute to the war on DHT with their saw palmetto, pumpkin seed and other bullshit DHT controllers in supposedly pro-testosterone supplements.

Yeah here in Britain all doctors appear to have been trained to check prostate before giving out HRT for fear of causing prostate cancer. My doctor checked me out before saying "Yep, you are fine to receive HRT" To which i replied: Fuck off you cock. - actually i didn't say that, but the rest happened, and he really wanted to give me HRT - i didn't even want it or ask for it!

On another note, re: Sorghum and DHT - i've been taking that for the last couple of months, and i did notice an improvement in my condition after i started taking it. Actually i take white sorghum syrup - which is basically sorghum extract, and is used for gluten free homebrewing. It is sweet and i use a teaspoon in coffee and hot chocolate. It is very cheap too.

English
02-13-2015, 09:15 AM
I'll just add that i tried sorghum flour too, but that is way harder to eat regularly. It is useless for bread and baking in general because it will not rise. However you can use it for pancakes or japatees - pretty sure i spelt that wrong!
I am hoping that the research referred to for sorghum (same research i read which prompted me to fill my cupboards with it!) is a whole lot more robust than the research on bollock free dogs for prostate cancer!!!

Freepressright
02-13-2015, 10:25 AM
I'm curious about the whole grain sorghum. Apparently you can boil it for about an hour in chicken stock and it turns out something like rice or quinoa. Swanson has the whole grain sorghum. I think I'm going to pick up a bag and try it.

Cdsnuts
02-13-2015, 04:24 PM
I'm curious about the whole grain sorghum. Apparently you can boil it for about an hour in chicken stock and it turns out something like rice or quinoa. Swanson has the whole grain sorghum. I think I'm going to pick up a bag and try it.

Keep us posted if you do this! I'm always down to try another GF grain.

English
02-17-2015, 07:58 AM
I had a couple of bags of wholegrain sorghum (i bought the whole range!) and i used it to make pop corn. I will try what i have left in chicken stock or similar as if that works that sounds great

Pageidol
02-25-2015, 09:19 AM
I have had non-existent libido several times on fenugreek. But this last time was the worst. It is almost classic symptoms of you guys who were injured by finasteride.

Morning erections, gone. Random erections, never. I had difficulty getting aroused. I just plain had no interest in sex. Maintaining an erection was difficult because I just couldn't keep myself interested. And I felt no desire to self service in the off time.

I started to become more emotional. I lost my alpha feeling. My muscle tissue became softer and I couldn't get a pump worth a shit while working out. Another thing that was really pronounced that I had never felt before was a lack of interest in working out. I would get to the gym and no matter what I did beforehand or how focused I tried to be, I had an insatiable desire to leave early. None of my lifts felt good. I had no mental encouragement. It was fucking awful.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys?

And in the weeks, or month or more after ceasing, I was still feeling this. I'm finally starting to normalize, but with assistance.

The fucking men's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every fucking product, even god damn multivitamins, have either saw palmetto or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common misnomers in marketing.

Fuck Testofen. I will never take this shit ever again.

/End rant
How you doing now mate? Have you recovered?

Im in trouble also. Last summer i began takin saw palmetto for 3 weeks by mistake thinking they were just vitamins. After a few days my body was behaving very strange...my glands had swollen, i had pain in my testicles and libido gone erections gone...after 3 weeks i sussed out what was happening and dropped them immediatley. Fenugreek then got recommmended to me as a test booster. i took it for around 4 weeks and bang the same symtpons from saw palmetto! I researched it and discovered its another DHT blocker. Upon taking the fenugreek my nuts shrank up...shrivelled flaccid...horrible disconnect fealing down there...Were now in Feb 2015 and im still dealing with these symtpons. My test levels are low at 11nmol.

Im worried sick about it.

Cheers