I found The living legend CDnuts l

[5 alpha victim]

I recently stumbled upon this forum and I had to join because I would have been stupid not to. I have been reading through all of the threads and it's obvious that there is some awsome people here who give great advice and info.

Hopefully everyone will be ok with this, but I am another 5 alpha reductase inhibiter victim, except that I took Avodart and not propecia.

It's clear that the people here already know who cdnuts is and what he has acomplished so it does not seen like I'm "letting be cat out of the bag" but seriously you can't read more than ten threads on the thousands of threads propecia help has without hearing cdnuts name mentioned. This guy has been able to do what lots (and I mean lots) of guys have failed to do. Your recovery thread from PH has inspired me so much. I was one of those guys that probable contributed to why cdnuts left. I just did not get what he was saying at the time I first found his thread a year and a half ago. I was not mentally tough enough to get it.

But after reading it again recently I get what he is saying. Their is no magic bult with curing PFS. You need to make drastic life style changes that will allow you OVERTIME to constantly nudge your body and endicrine system back in the right direction.

I seen cdnuts's post about how he's done with that dark time of his life and therefor he does not want to turn this into a propecia help forum. I completly understand that and respect it, he has already done more for a bunch of complete strangers than anyone else would by posting his recovery methods.

With that said I would like to mention to anyone who cares what I have been able to accomplish so far on my own:

4 and a half years ago I crashed from taking a DHT inhibiter. I lost ten pounds of muscel and put on belly fat over night, I had no labido, had complete Ed and depression, had low total T, free T, high SHBG and estrogen all of which came over night with my crash.

First thing I did was waited 8 months doing nothing other than eating better and working out.

Second thing I did was I went on a two year clomid restart program. Luckily I found a real good endo who was willing to do this for me. It
Restored my hormone levels, they are all perfect for a 30 year old.

Time, restoring my levels and working out has got me where I am at today which is 50 percent recovered. I still have moderate to severe ED, senstivity issues. It' now time to finish recovering and i plan on doing this by following everything cdnuts did. I am now mentally tuff enough to even begin to be on this guys level.

Today I have finished my first ever fast. I made it 7 days. It's been crazy hard, I can not fucking wait to eat whole food tonight (yes I know I'm taking refeeding very slow). after today I am following (as outlined by cdnuts) a strict gluten free diet that consists of a paleo diet with carbbackloading (only clean carbs). I will eat this wAy for a few months, no cheat days, no beer no nothing. I will do high intensity training with weight lifting through out the week. This 7 day fast Is a great start for this new life.

In the near future I will do another fast but 14 days. I will than go into my first "cdnuts" cycle. It will consist of the following:

4-6 weeks of alpha hard.

One month of pct using the same compounds from the testosterone recovery stack cdnuts used. Its toco 8, RES and the D-acid stuff. During this time I will cycle several diff T boosters. A diff one for every day.

One-two additional months of cycling the Natural T boostets. That is one complete cycle and 4 over the course of 1-2 years needs to be completed.

I'm looking forward to fighting this thing now, it's just a part of life now. It's not dark it's just a part of life. This fast has provided me with the mental toughness I need to see this through.

Cdnuts, sorry if this is reminding you of all this crap, but it's true your posts have reached many and you are the man.

[5 alpha victim]

I am simply just looking for any advice cdnuts or anyone else can give me regarding if alphs hard is the best choice for the DHT prohormone and what are the best herbs/natural T boosters I should use IN COMBINATION with my pct and for 1-2 months after my pct.

I'm also looking to see if anyone can give me their opnion on if a DHT prohormone cycle will completly destruct my now good natrual recovered hormone levels. Of course a 2 year clomid restart was hell and id hate to lose these gains but as we already know a DHT prohormone is a part of cdnuts method and I plan on needing to incorporate that aspect into my own trial to succeed.

[entropy]

I'm probably the worst person to say this but tbh this place feels like home to me now and this is starting to bug me a little.
There's better places to discuss this stuff bro, like three other forums. We -do- discuss this stuff occasionally but there's no more that can be said about it that hasn't already been addressed in other threads.

[Scope75]

There's better places to discuss this stuff bro, like three other forums. We -do- discuss this stuff occasionally but there's no more that can be said about it that hasn't already been addressed in other threads.

X2

And get rid of that Victim mindset.....

[Enuke65]

Exogenous hormones will more than likely suppress your natural hormone levels.
End of story.

[mahatma]

I am simply just looking for any advice cdnuts or anyone else can give me regarding if alphs hard is the best choice for the DHT prohormone and what are the best herbs/natural T boosters I should use IN COMBINATION with my pct and for 1-2 months after my pct.

I'm also looking to see if anyone can give me their opnion on if a DHT prohormone cycle will completly destruct my now good natrual recovered hormone levels. Of course a 2 year clomid restart was hell and id hate to lose these gains but as we already know a DHT prohormone is a part of cdnuts method and I plan on needing to incorporate that aspect into my own trial to succeed.

There is a log being run now for Andro300 that may be of some interest to you.

[Freepressright]

It's crazy how a group of us hormone-crazy weightlifters can have such a carryover benefit to the folks injured by 5AR inhbitors. I would be OK with a specific section to help these guys out. The last thing I'd ever want to do is run these guys off, but at the same time, I don't want this to be the Propeciahelp Part II site.

Honestly, having been once shut down by a natural 5AR inhibitor, I would do anything I could to help someone in the OP's position. We have so much to share, and we're probably a whole hell of a lot more versed than a lot of guys on the Propecia Help forums.

Just my two cents worth.

[entropy]

It's crazy how a group of us hormone-crazy weightlifters can have such a carryover benefit to the folks injured by 5AR inhbitors. I would be OK with a specific section to help these guys out. The last thing I'd ever want to do is run these guys off, but at the same time, I don't want this to be the Propeciahelp Part II site.

Honestly, having been once shut down by a natural 5AR inhibitor, I would do anything I could to help someone in the OP's position. We have so much to share, and we're probably a whole hell of a lot more versed than a lot of guys on the Propecia Help forums.

Just my two cents worth.
I share this sentiment, fpr, I really do. However there's nothing we can do for someone who shows up here expecting to be carried or spoon fed exactly what to do to fix it -especially- in this situation. There's a wealth of information here and on other areas of the internet but until you take the initiative, devour as much information as possible and actually take action... We just can't help these guys. Last thing I want is 2-3 threads like this a week when ALL OF THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE, ALL OF IT.


Sorry for being a bit snarky, I found this forum cause I was researching 5ari sides but I can't stand this "I'm a victim everyone should help me stance".

[Cdsnuts]

It's crazy how a group of us hormone-crazy weightlifters can have such a carryover benefit to the folks injured by 5AR inhbitors. I would be OK with a specific section to help these guys out. The last thing I'd ever want to do is run these guys off, but at the same time, I don't want this to be the Propeciahelp Part II site.

Honestly, having been once shut down by a natural 5AR inhibitor, I would do anything I could to help someone in the OP's position. We have so much to share, and we're probably a whole hell of a lot more versed than a lot of guys on the Propecia Help forums.

Just my two cents worth.

If you guys are willing to help out, then I get that. But just know it's opening up a can of worms. I've done it...for years at PH. Painstakingly documenting everything that was happening with me in the hopes that it would help somebody else. All of the failures (there were many) and the successes. One thing that really started to get to me after awhile is that I would start getting attacked by people for no reason at all. People that just didn't like me based on my posts. I would have people start arguing with me, pointlessly so, trying to prove me wrong. I didn't get it because I was simply there to help. Hours and hours of going through posts, answering PM's (a ridiculous amount of them) I had no reason for anyone to believe me. All I was doing was sharing my experiences. Nothing more, nothing less. I had no desire to argue.

If anything, maybe there can be a section for troubleshooting endocrine system issues. At a site that deals with what this site does, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Just be careful what you wish for.

[entropy]

I quite like the idea of endocrine trouble shooting, then all this crap can be stickied and avoided. Even better if its at Tue bottom of the page. I feel I contributed to this crap quite a lot so if there's anything I can do, please feel free to let me know.

[5 alpha victim]

I'm probably the worst person to say this but tbh this place feels like home to me now and this is starting to bug me a little.
There's better places to discuss this stuff bro, like three other forums. We -do- discuss this stuff occasionally but there's no more that can be said about it that hasn't already been addressed in other threads.

I agree. This thing has been talked to death and than some. However I still feel that I can learn more about this issue by listening to peoples experiences with recovery attempts. Also the questions I have and the things im trying to learn about now are more releated to DHT prohormones and pct/ recovering from DHT cycles and how close doing so is to recovering from steriod cycles or TRT. I promise I won't be annoying and I will do this by treading as lightly as possible.

The PH website is no longer consists of people like cdnuts who want to learn research and by using scientific approaches and logic to solve something as complex as PFS. It's just made up of people who want to bitch and complain by using the website as a support group. In my opnion that's what mental health profesionals are for. I'm intrested in learning as much as I can about "all things male" from the right people. Knowladge is power period.

Honestly the only reason I even found this website was because I was looking for a replacement to Androhard and came across another Ph member doing the same on this website.

Anyways thanks for your response and I'm glad you are doing good and found a website that you enjoy being a member at.

Hope I did go about this the wrong way

[5 alpha victim]

X2

And get rid of that Victim mindset.....

To be honest I had the victim mindset. Not anymore. This issue has been a part of my life now for 4.5 years. I gave up on that mindset some time ago. This is just a part of my life now, believe me I have "adabted to my enviornment". This is normal now, like going to work and the gym. It's just a part of the day.

I used this username just because this is the user name I have been using for a while now and I guess it just caught on. I did not look at it like that and if I did I prob would not have used it on this website.

[5 alpha victim]

Exogenous hormones will more than likely suppress your natural hormone levels.
End of story.


Ok. So I'm going to plan on needing PCT. All this means is that I have to be that much more careful with what pct I choose and how i use it.

If I recover my LH and FSH from a propecia crash I can recover from anything. But don't let me fool you, I'm still worried about the implications running a cycle of alpha hard will have on shutting down my natural T production. My total T is curruntly in .the mid 700's NG/DL and I'm 30.

- - - Updated - - -


There is a log being run now for Andro300 that may be of some interest to you.

I'm going to start researching it.
Thank you

[5 alpha victim]

It's crazy how a group of us hormone-crazy weightlifters can have such a carryover benefit to the folks injured by 5AR inhbitors. I would be OK with a specific section to help these guys out. The last thing I'd ever want to do is run these guys off, but at the same time, I don't want this to be the Propeciahelp Part II site.


Honestly, having been once shut down by a natural 5AR inhibitor, I would do anything I could to help someone in the OP's position. We have so much to share, and we're probably a whole hell of a lot more versed than a lot of guys on the Propecia Help forums.

Just my two cents worth.

If you have experienced the 5AR crash or anything close to it than you know what it feels like to go to hell. If you can survive in that world you can survive in any. I'm looking forward to hearing about some of your knowladge about the situation.

Let's face it, no one is going to know more about using hormones and PCT than you guys. Seeing that I'm actually getting ready to use alpha hard, your inputs are of much use to me.

Hopefully I will be the last PH person coming here. If by doing what I'm doing right now I'm promoting more of them to come than I will leave.

[5 alpha victim]

I share this sentiment, fpr, I really do. However there's nothing we can do for someone who shows up here expecting to be carried or spoon fed exactly what to do to fix it -especially- in this situation. There's a wealth of information here and on other areas of the internet but until you take the initiative, devour as much information as possible and actually take action... We just can't help these guys. Last thing I want is 2-3 threads like this a week when ALL OF THE INFORMATION IS OUT THERE, ALL OF IT.


Sorry for being a bit snarky, I found this forum cause I was researching 5ari sides but I can't stand this "I'm a victim everyone should help me stance".

No I'm not taking your response like a bitch. I get it.

I have been reading through the forum and it appears you have a history with these types of side effects as well. It also sounds like you are doing good now and that's awesome. So far I'm glad I came here because I just found cdnuts new herbs he recomends and even mentioned that he would have included those during his recovery if he knew about them at the time. That's a whole list to research!

I have already learned some good stuff and I have only been here for two days.

As far as taking action I just finished my first fast yesterday. 7 days, lost all stomach fat. Only had a lil to begin with but now I'm in better shape and can't fucking wait to eat crazy good and get in better shape.

[5 alpha victim]

If you guys are willing to help out, then I get that. But just know it's opening up a can of worms. I've done it...for years at PH. Painstakingly documenting everything that was happening with me in the hopes that it would help somebody else. All of the failures (there were many) and the successes. One thing that really started to get to me after awhile is that I would start getting attacked by people for no reason at all. People that just didn't like me based on my posts. I would have people start arguing with me, pointlessly so, trying to prove me wrong. I didn't get it because I was simply there to help. Hours and hours of going through posts, answering PM's (a ridiculous amount of them) I had no reason for anyone to believe me. All I was doing was sharing my experiences. Nothing more, nothing less. I had no desire to argue.

If anything, maybe there can be a section for troubleshooting endocrine system issues. At a site that deals with what this site does, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Just be careful what you wish for.

The reason why people on that website did that to you (and others who have posted recoveries) is simply because when they read a post like that they know they have to options:

1) get ready to fight, as using your methods are not for the weak of heart.

2) assume the post and the methods used are a lie so that way they can justify in their own minds not to do it.

This way they don't need to admit to themselves that they are cowards.

You are here and they are their for a reason.

[5 alpha victim]

I quite like the idea of endocrine trouble shooting, then all this crap can be stickied and avoided. Even better if its at Tue bottom of the page. I feel I contributed to this crap quite a lot so if there's anything I can do, please feel free to let me know.

Ten four

[Freepressright]

Ten four

Roll with us, learn with us and become one of us.

We have no problem helping. This is a family forum. Read, learn, ask questions, and contribute back to others in need with what you have learned.

I had fenugreek give me ALL the classic symptoms of PFS, to a slightly lesser degree, but the symptoms were there. If you've had PFS or the same from saw palmetto, I feel your pain.

[5 alpha victim]

Mahatma, I found the website that sells the Andro300 product. I'm surprised to see its a gel. A transdermal DHT prohormone product is actually what I have been looking for, for a while now. If I have my facts straight this will be easier on my liver as its not going through my digestive system to be broken down by my liver ect..

My only concern is that as far as I know when it comes to transdermal products it's a hit or miss type of deal as producing a product with a good carrier (transdermal delivery) that can actually absorb through the skin and into the blood stream properly is difficult to do. In other words it will work crazy good or not work at all. The transdermal delievy quality of that product called sustain alpha from PP was awesome and based on my research one of a kind and hard to duplicate.

This andro300 deff has my eye

[entropy]

Mahatma, I found the website that sells the Andro300 product. I'm surprised to see its a gel. A transdermal DHT prohormone product is actually what I have been looking for, for a while now. If I have my facts straight this will be easier on my liver as its not going through my digestive system to be broken down by my liver ect..

My only concern is that as far as I know when it comes to transdermal products it's a hit or miss type of deal as producing a product with a good carrier (transdermal delivery) that can actually absorb through the skin and into the blood stream properly is difficult to do. In other words it will work crazy good or not work at all. The transdermal delievy quality of that product called sustain alpha from PP was awesome and based on my research one of a kind and hard to duplicate.

This andro300 deff has my eye

There's a lot of options. If you want a transdermal you could try andractim, andro300 or source pure epi powder and salvo. If you want an internal product Alphahard has the alpha and beta isomer and therefore its the closest thing to androhardv3. I have to stress though, I'm on cdnuts regime. Prohormones are literally the last thing you should add, they're not even remotely essential to the program.. I'm not sure why so many guys think it's the key. Hard work is the key. Always.

[5 alpha victim]

Roll with us, learn with us and become one of us.

We have no problem helping. This is a family forum. Read, learn, ask questions, and contribute back to others in need with what you have learned.

I had fenugreek give me ALL the classic symptoms of PFS, to a slightly lesser degree, but the symptoms were there. If you've had PFS or the same from saw palmetto, I feel your pain.

Fenugreek, dam
This is my first hearing about it.

It's amazing how many products/natural suppletments can inhibit DHT. I'm trying not to be overly paranoid in believing that Res, zink and fish oil are all 5Ar inhibitets but at the same time this is my first time hearing about fenugreek so you just never know.

[5 alpha victim]

There's a lot of options. If you want a transdermal you could try andractim, andro300 or source pure epi powder and salvo. If you want an internal product Alphahard has the alpha and beta isomer and therefore its the closest thing to androhardv3. I have to stress though, I'm on cdnuts regime. Prohormones are literally the last thing you should add, they're not even remotely essential to the program.. I'm not sure why so many guys think it's the key. Hard work is the key. Always.

Thanks for the response

" andractim-prescription DHT not legal in is without prescription"

This is my ideal option but Because this is not legal with out a prescription and because of the job I have I cant take the risk or ordering it from another country. Therefor I can't use this unless I can get a doctor to give it to me which as I am sure you already know probable won't happen.

"or source pure epi powder and salvo."

As interesting as this idea is I am just straight up to uncomfortable with attempting it. Maybe if I can find more info on it I will attempt this in the future. Right now there is not enough instructions that are out their explaining this process-

"alpha hard has the alpha and beta isomer and therefore its the closest thing to androhardv3"

So it's between Alpha hard and andro300.

I like the idea of andro300 being a transdermal cream. This will be easier on my digestive system (that's crippled by PFS) and my liver. It just seems like a healthier option. However alpha hard as you mentioned has both of the active ingredients that was in androhard.

So I will just have to choose between these to for my first cycle.

That's interesting that you did not have to take DHT prohormones/ do not contribute the taking of DHT prohormones to your recovery. With that said what do you feel was the most revelent factor that you contribute The most to your recovery?

I understand its all hard work as there is not one easy thing about cdnuts's method. Trust me I know, I'm doing it right now.

After some more time of strict paleo diet eating and after a longer fast I feel like my body is clean and ready for this cycle. I also feel like I need to increase 5Ar presence to make progress

Only other thing I should add is that up until recently it's not like I have been doing nothing. For a while now I have actually been eating somthing pretty close to a strict paleo with carb back loading. It just had not been perfect until now and I have not fasted until now. I have also been running "cycles" of high dose DHEA followed by cycling natural T boosters. So it's not like I'm going from doing nothing to "hey let's go run a cycle of DHT pro hormone" because I think I'm ready only after a little hard work.

I guess it comes down to if I truly need to stimulate 5AR to as cdnuts puts it "nudge my body back little by little in the right direction" ?

After all this is what he did

[BBG]

I apologize, your first post is enormous and I'm tired/getting over a cold... and I'm wondering, what natural options have you tried?

1. My first suggestion is Creatine like Creapure. It's simply going to boost your DHT and has been proven to do so in at least one study. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313)

2. Sorghum. Check out the study: 54% boost in 5-a enzyme (converts testosterone to DHT). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8723114)

3. Boron also boosts DHT (and testosterone, among other things). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941)

That's just supplementation.

You're going to want to eat a healthy diet and you're going to want to lift weights too.

[5 alpha victim]

I apologize, your first post is enormous and I'm tired/getting over a cold... and I'm wondering, what natural options have you tried?

1. My first suggestion is Creatine like Creapure. It's simply going to boost your DHT and has been proven to do so in at least one study. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313)

2. Sorghum. Check out the study: 54% boost in 5-a enzyme (converts testosterone to DHT). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8723114)

3. Boron also boosts DHT (and testosterone, among other things). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941)

That's just supplementation.

You're going to want to eat a healthy diet and you're going to want to lift weights too.

My experience with creatine is pretty extensive. I have used it before and after my DHT inhibiter crash. The creatine product that I always found to be the most effective is a product called size on. It requires no loading phase and I got noticeable results in muscel mass/muscel sise everyime I used it properly by drinking a gallon and a half-2 gallons of water every day while on it. As far if the creatine was indeed increasing my DHT levels or not, it may have but I noticed no improvments in my symptoms other than increse muscel mass which alone is obviously still good.

The sorghum and the boron I have never tried. I plan on using both soon as they both look like safe options that can only help me and not hurt me.

As far as what I have tried thus far:

2 year clomid restart threapy at 50mg every other day with a quarter of a 1mg armidex tablet every day to control the high E I experienced the entire time while on clomid. The 2 year method (with a 6 month wean off) was somthing a endo came up with from men's heath Boston in Boston MA. He is awesome! Anyway this cured my dht inhibiter induced low T for the long run. However my symptoms still remain but it was deff the first major step In fixing this.

I have also experimented with Trib and Tongkat from world abs.com. They both incresed my testostetone. Other than that DHEA was the only other thing I tried which gave me the most results overall in symptom improvment over anything else I mentioned.

As far as eating right. My diet had been decent sense my crash but not perfect. I did my first fast recently and my diet is now perfect. Strict paleo with carb backloading. With clean carbs like brown rice, organic gluten free pasta, and patetos.

My workouts have always been pretty good. I have matained a weight of 210 pounds at 6 foot 5 for a while. (Not bragging about that as I know that's just average as far as how you guys role). However after coming down with a buldged disk in my lower back which caused me to not be able to work out combined with a 7 day fast I just did I'm now 185 at 6 foot 5. I'm weak but I'm slowly getting my strength back in the gym. I also just started squating for my first time. Even though I'm only squating about 90 pounds with sets of 12 reps I can already tell how effective it is.

[BBG]

DHEA does help you? You should try dermacrine. It's a topical DHEA product. A lot more of it converts to test/DHT due to being topically applied instead of oral.

I've used it pretty extensively both solo and with other products, let me know if you want more info.

Seems like your diet/training are in check.

[5 alpha victim]

DHEA does help you? You should try dermacrine. It's a topical DHEA product. A lot more of it converts to test/DHT due to being topically applied instead of oral.

I've used it pretty extensively both solo and with other products, let me know if you want more info.

Seems like your diet/training are in check.

I have been reading up on dermacrine. Looks like a solid option.
Thanks