Advice for fin related ED/no libido

[Swill]

Hey guys,

I'll try not to make this a big wall of text, but having some problems and wondering if you guys can give some feedback/recommendations...

I'm 29 and after 7 years of usage with no issue whatsoever was hit hard with PFS back in December 2012. My main side effects of concern are pretty much total lack of libido and ED (also have some vision light sensitivity issues, and curvature of penis but had it checked and blood flow is fine and it isn't massively severe).

I saw a variety of endo's and underwent various treatments in the first year under the care of the doc's both in the UK (where I live) and a well known anti-ageing doc from Lansing, Michigan (who turned out to be a fraud, but thats another story). I have extensive blood labs and a few 24 hour unrine panels from these times and basically after the big crash (Feb 2013) I was left with low-normal level T when not on any meds. I was tried on various doses and combinations of clomid, cabergoline, anastrozole, aromasin, cabergoline, proviron and still have all lying around at home. All treatments made me worse of sexually (and clomid particularly wreaked havoc with me emotionally).

It was found that clomid would take my T levels right to top of range, but my aromatase enzyme would go insane and give me E levels 2/3 times over top of range, even when on 1mg daily of anastrozole to bring it down... the anti-aging doc claimed he had never seen someone aromatise like it.

As of 2014, I read and became friends with CDSnuts (who has helped me personally a massive amount and shown great kindness to me) and I went a more natural route, beginning with a 2 week water fast at a facility in Cali, and then tightening up diet with paleo based carb-backloading to go with the gym, which i've always hit quite hard. I found that my sexual baseline improved now that for the first time since i was sick I wasn't on pharma stuff, but was still well below what I was, and should be, and still sexually very bad off despite being aesthetically in the best shape of my life... of note, since PFS I can still tone and hit the gym almost daily but I really struggle to put on mass. During this year I tried herb cycling and a few short DHT pro hormone cycles, but found both put me back a step or two, so thought i'd have a run with just diet and exercise, but unfortunately little further improvement occurred.

I have in the last month on CDs recommendation started the superman herbs stack (Pine Pollen Powder 3x daily, and cycling around 9 supps in rotation) and I have noticeably packed on a fair amount of mass, my strength shot up in the gym and I feel great... the one problem being I have again gradually taken a number of steps back sexually and am having to rely on PDE-5 inhibitors again, with libido gradually disappearing and now being non existent. I believe my androgens have risen and with it my E has shot up also like when on clomid (although I still emotionally feel good, and dont have the manic feel that clomid gave me when it elevated everything, I assume due to it being gentler and more natural).

Basically guys, what do you think... do you agree that the sexual issues are likely the result of elevated E as happened previously as both CD and I think is likely the case? I took part in the PFS study in Baylor University, Texas last month and have comprehensive blood labs from that, but at the time I was on nothing whatsoever so its baseline stuff, but I can post if you think it helps? (Brief snapshot: T was 391, and E was 22, SHBG 42).

If this is the case...What do you guys think I could take/do to help?

FYI... I also have in my possession the Wicked Supps Ultimate Stack (res 100 in caps, not liquid), A tub and a half of PP Andro-Hard (V3) and 2 bottles of PN's Epi-Andro Hard at home if any of this would be of use? Or anything else for that matter.

The super man herbs are clearly doing something good for me as I feel stronger, more alert, and like I have higher T, which shows with me putting on a little weight and strength improvements, so i'd really like to push on and feel like if I can work out this final piece of the puzzle I may see some real progress.

Thanks for taking the time to read guys and sorry its lengthy, any feedback or advice would be gratefully received!

[hossam]

did you try fasting?
fasting can and will balance all your hormonal levels
along with good diet, training, good herbs and time

[tallstraw]

^ I was gonna say keto

[Swill]

Hi guys,

Yeah I have fasted, I flew out to Cali and undertook a two week medically supervised fast at the same facility CDs went to for some of his fasts in Feb/March 2014. I found that my libido (quite understandably) tanked during the fast, and it set me back a fair bit and took quite a while to get back to my baseline; no massively noticeable long term improvements but still well worth it as my diet wasn't on point beforehand I could definitely have done with the cleanse.

My diet since has been pretty clean for a few months before that and since, based on paleo but with carb backloading, with the carbs largely coming from sweet potato and rice, with anything else I have to break the monotony (which is rare) being gluten free (fruit loaf, etc).

[hossam]

Royal jelly fresh and caps

Fresh

YS Royal Jelly/Honey Bee - Royal Jelly In Honey
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JEIKDOW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Puritan Royal Jelly 500 mg
(http://www.puritan.com/puritans-pride-brand-0102/royal-jelly-500-mg-007142)

this will be a great help for your libido, but make sure you dose it high
the fresh on empty stomach

[Swill]

I am definitely intending to add Royal Jelly to my supplements I'm cycling but wasn't sure of a reputable brand, so thanks for that!

BTW, these are my most recent bloods (with ranges where they were included):

Total T: 391 (292-1052)
SHBG: 42 (17-66)
Calc Free T: 6.8 (4.8-25.0)
E2: 22 (<63)
FSH: 7.2
LH: 5.6
DHT: 358 (112-955)

Prolactin: 5.0 (3.0-30.0)
DHEA-S: 294 (240-549)
Progesterone: 0.3

TSH: 0.8 (0.5-4.7)
Free T4: 1.25 (0.73-1.95)

IGF-1 Somatomedin-C: 159 (84-313)

Vit B-12: 672 (250-1100)
Vit D: 57

Also have CBC and Urinalysis if anyone thinks its of help?

Note: This was taken before I began taking the super man herbs, which have certainly helped me pack on mass and feel good (I assume increased T), but made me worse sexually at the same time. I'm thinking because of increased aromatisation?

Anything glaring out from the bloods that I'm missing?

Any advice on how to control this?

[entropy]

Hey man sorry I didn't reply earlier, been a busy weekend for me.

Okay, the first thing that stands out to me is your total and free t are both abysmally low for your age. If I were you I'd either try sustain alpha or res100, bind up that aromatase enzyme with something else and see how you feel running that daily -with- your herbs and see how you feel. There's a guy who goes by "big softie" on pH and "matt skiba" on anabolicminds who used sustain alpha to great success but at the very least it might give us more to go on as to what works for you. If this is an aromatase issue then binding the enzyme to something relatively inert might increase your libido etc. Let us know bro.

[Swill]

Hey man sorry I didn't reply earlier, been a busy weekend for me.

Okay, the first thing that stands out to me is your total and free t are both abysmally low for your age. If I were you I'd either try sustain alpha or res100, bind up that aromatase enzyme with something else and see how you feel running that daily -with- your herbs and see how you feel. There's a guy who goes by "big softie" on pH and "matt skiba" on anabolicminds who used sustain alpha to great success but at the very least it might give us more to go on as to what works for you. If this is an aromatase issue then binding the enzyme to something relatively inert might increase your libido etc. Let us know bro.

Thanks man, hugely appreciated! Will add in the res100 I have (I have the old caps and not the new liquid - much difference between the two?).

Sustain Alpha being the cream by BPS I assume?

Have Anastrozole and Liquid Exemestane as last resort but really want to avoid pharma as much as possible.

[entropy]

Thanks man, hugely appreciated! Will add in the res100 I have (I have the old caps and not the new liquid - much difference between the two?).

Sustain Alpha being the cream by BPS I assume?

Have Anastrozole and Liquid Exemestane as last resort but really want to avoid pharma as much as possible.

I think the liquid absorbs somewhat better but other than that the difference is pretty negligible as far as I can tell. Hopefully O.N will let us know if he reads this.

English found that a pharma ai was the icing on the cake for him. We spoke a few days ago and he's still doing great, weaning off the ai now I think and holding strong. I agree with you though and found res100 pretty decent for the job. It bares mentioning that you guys (english, cd and yourself) had it a lot rougher than I did though.

[Cdsnuts]

It bares mentioning that you guys (english, cd and yourself) had it a lot rougher than I did though.

That being said, sustain/Res100 obliterates my Estrogen.

[Swill]

My aromatatisation is batshit crazy at any sign of boosting my Androgens so it may be just what I need... Just hope I am able to differentiate between 'too high' and 'too low' as blood tests in the immediate future are going to be difficult to come by.

[BBG]

That being said, sustain/Res100 obliterates my Estrogen.

Yeah, a lot of people don't believe this... but Res100 and Sustain Alpha can be really effective AIs. Especially in light of the fact that most OTC Ais are now banned.

[Freepressright]

That being said, sustain/Res100 obliterates my Estrogen.

Mine too

[Swill]

Thanks for the input guys, will throw the RES 100 in the mix for a few weeks and see how it goes, not sure whether to go with 1 cap 2x daily or 2... was already on creatine but will throw in sorghum and boron to boost 5ar too (thanks Freepressright for your thread!) Will keep you guys updated, thanks again for the input!:D

[PACMAN]

Hey Swill

sorry for posting on your thread but your situation sounds similar to mine. I have also managed to kick the emotional and mental side effects of PFS with a sustained good diet and exercise regime. Im still experiencing the sexual sides, including zero libido. Im just about to start Res100 to see if that helps. Im determined to beat the sexual stuff and will let you know how I get on with the Res100

[Swill]

Hey Swill

sorry for posting on your thread but your situation sounds similar to mine. I have also managed to kick the emotional and mental side effects of PFS with a sustained good diet and exercise regime. Im still experiencing the sexual sides, including zero libido. Im just about to start Res100 to see if that helps. Im determined to beat the sexual stuff and will let you know how I get on with the Res100

Good luck! Ive seen some early benefit combining res100 with cycling the super man herbs, but it's early days yet, will give an update when I've had a few weeks run.

Read through the threads here man, I've learned a great deal in a short time!

[Cdsnuts]

Good luck! Ive seen some early benefit combining res100 with cycling the super man herbs, but it's early days yet, will give an update when I've had a few weeks run.

Read through the threads here man, I've learned a great deal in a short time!

In combo with the herbs I think you should notice a difference for sure. That is if the problems are in fact estrogen related. When I was playing around with the new herb cycling regimen 3 or four months ago, I absolutely destroyed my estrogen. It was not fun. Anxious, shaky, Hot flashes, horrible mood, no sex drive. The exact combo was Pine pollen, He shou wou and Res100. I dropped the Res and was fine in a day or so. Hopefully you're getting close to unlocking this.....

[Swill]

In combo with the herbs I think you should notice a difference for sure. That is if the problems are in fact estrogen related. When I was playing around with the new herb cycling regimen 3 or four months ago, I absolutely destroyed my estrogen. It was not fun. Anxious, shaky, Hot flashes, horrible mood, no sex drive. The exact combo was Pine pollen, He shou wou and Res100. I dropped the Res and was fine in a day or so. Hopefully you're getting close to unlocking this.....

This is day 8 of the regimen of 'pine pollen - herb cycle - res 100,' with the res100 at 2 caps 2x daily. Had an initial burst in strength and am certainly not feeling anything in the way of the horrible sides you had with anxiety, mood, etc, and still feel great in terms of mood, energy, mental clarity. Sexually I remain 'so-so', but it really started to hit me around this mark when i was cycling and didn't have the res100 in the mix last time and it was a gradual decline from there, so the next week or two will be very interesting. Of note, today is my 'He Shou Wou' cycle day.

If I feel anything negative I will take a day off the res and scale back dose from there. Given how active my aromatase enzyme appears to be, something potent like res100 may be exactly what I need and hopefully I won't have to consider pharma AI. As you say, hopefully this will be the piece of the puzzle that's been missing.

[Thanksgiving]

Swill,

Good meeting you on the forum and best of luck to you. I am also recovering from PFS.

I have my hormones pretty well under control, I'm still working on regaining some sensitivity and trying to improve my erectile strength and spontaneity.

I almost totally normalized my hormones by using letrozole. I was also having problems with aromatization. However the key is to use a microdose. I took a 2.5 mg pill and split it up into some sugar and so I take 12 micrograms daily. That's .012 mg so that 2.5 mg pull lasts me 208 days.

Here are some blood results from December 2013. The first test was on December 3 and then I retested again on December 31 after four weeks of low dose letrozole (at the time I was taking progesterone cream and cabergoline which I had already been on for 3 months.

December 3 pre letrozole
Total T 530
Free T 13.0
E2 26.0
LH 3.4
FSH 4.1

December 31 after 4 weeks of letro
Total T 867
Free T 20.6
E2 20.7
LH 10.0
FSH 5.6

Remember the key is to take very small doses. Too much will crush your estrogen and have you feeling miserable and beware of estrogen rebound if you cycle off.

[Crank92]

Hey all,

I too am in the same boat as Swill and also find Pro-T/DHT can actually affect me in a negative manner. I got into the convoluted nature of my sexual sides on another thread. So I won't do it here. But if you were to list off EVERY oestrogen metabolising &/or aromatase inhibiting supplement, herb and food that don't concomitantly have a negative effect on 5AR/DHT what would they be?

I remember the first day after high dosing Calcium-D-Glucorate I got some morning glory, which is always down to me doing something different it seems! However, I couldn't replicate it so I presume my body overcame the effect very quickly as is the unfortunate case of tolerance. So I was wondering short of resorting to pharmaceutical grade AI's what can you suggest. It looks like Res100 is receiving praise so I may well get on that shortly.

[Thanksgiving]

You might look into 7-methoxyflavone. I get mind from barlowesherbalelixirs.

Some people like DIM and of course the Res100.

Other products you could consider are erase and triazole. Both of which are too strong with too many sides IMO

[Crank92]

http://www.amazon. co. uk/450/dp/B00M1KYH10/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1431679230&sr=8-5&keywords=7-methoxyflavone

Would this look like a legitimate supplement in regards to ingredients and dosage? I never had any discernible effect from DIM (perhaps as it is a mild 5ARI as well as being an AI (or E metaboliser, I forget which one).

Ingredient list:

Amount Per Serving:Dandelion Root (Taraxacum Officinale) 250mg Indole 3 Carbinol 100mg (DIM) Di-Indolyl Methane 50mg 7-Methoxyflavone 25mg Bioperine (Black Pepper Extract) 5mg Boron (Boron Citrate) 5mg Deprogen ARS Other Ingredients:Gelatin, Rice Flour, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide

I looked into Erase Pro too. I had a quick gander on examine . com (very good for supp info) and in vitro it shows Uncaria tomentosa can inhibit estradiol binding capacity by 47.2% at 20mcg (non-competitively), consdering tamoxifen is at about 69% at 20mcg that is quite impressive.

Also, from looking elsewhere on examine I found this nugget of info which I believe compares Swill & I's hypothesis of increased aromatase activity when we boost T:

"One study investiating DHEA inconjunction with an aromatase inhibitor (AI) found that the combination was more potent at increasing testosterone than either in isolation (8.5nmol/L increase in combination, 3.5nmol/L with DHEA, 4.9nmol/L with the AI atamestane); pairing DHEA with an AI also reduced the inevitable spike in estrogen to 2/3rds that seen with DHEA alone"

[Thanksgiving]

It's a feedback loop

Testosterone aromatizes
Estrogen increases
Estrogen tells LH that it has plenty
LH decreases
LH signals testes to produce less testosterone
Testosterone decreases

Estrogen is very suppressive

That's why I've had results with low dose letro. Even at low dose it is extremely effective at blocking estrogen

So then
Estrogen is low
Estrogen signals LH telling it to make more
LH increases
LH signals tested to produce more Testosterone
Testosterone increases
Testosterone can't convert to estrogen
T:E ratio improved

[Crank92]

Just out of curiosity have you tried other AI's beforehand?

Although I'm willing to give letro a go, especially due to its ability to increase DHT and 3-Adiol-G through pathways other than 5AR as a secondary mechanism. It is considered very aggressive, although I'm aware you're reducing this via micro-dosing. I was thinking of first trying Arimidex, to see if this could get 5AR firing on its own again, or if I have to resort to letro to allow the secondary mechanism to go to work. Just interested in hearing others experience with different things.

[Thanksgiving]

Letro can be tricky so I understand your concern. I just know it's damn effective. Here is some of my feedback:

PES Erase: too strong, kills estrogen, sore joints, shitty mood. Good for a day or two but over time it's too much. I keep some on hand to taper off letro since it's a suicide inhibitor. Not good for training makes one prone to injury

Triazole
I've used this in various PCTs with mixed results. It's very strong. However after a while the joints get so sore and muscle pumps get so intense it loses effectiveness.

Clomid
Is a serm not an AI but I've used it. I get moody and hate the eye floaters

Andractim
Topical DHT will lower estrogen but also shut down the HPTA and lower LH and testosterone due to negative feedback

Sustain Alpha
Had good results with the liqui vade when it was available

Resveratrol
I've used this with success

I would probably start with resveratrol and/or sustain alpha. Test your bloods beforehand (privatemdlabs.com) and after 3-4 weeks and re-evaluate. Use letrozole as a last option but it's damn effective.

[Thanksgiving]

I've also used 7-methoxyflavone and DIM

The thing about herbs is that it's best to cycle them.

You might try this:
Get 7-methoxyflavone, DIM, and resveratrol and cycle them so you take a different one each day similar to what CDNuts does with his herbs

[tallstraw]

Ehhh, idk about the adractim, plenty of studies to back up DHT not suppressing Endogenous test. You'd have to take a high dose, continuously.

[Cdsnuts]

Ehhh, idk about the adractim, plenty of studies to back up DHT not suppressing Endogenous test. You'd have to take a high dose, continuously.
I agree with this. I've run androhard before up to 16 weeks and when I came off I felt like I could go without a PCT if I needed to.

[Thanksgiving]

You both may be right about the andractim. It's an interesting compound and I think the pathway is different than androhard.

When I put it directly on my package I feel it strongly and quickly but when I use a high dose it does cause my balls to tighten up a lil bit although my dick seems to get bigger.

CDsnuts, when did you take androhard for 16 weeks? Was this before during or after your recovery? Did it remain effective for the whole 16 weeks and how did you dose it? Any sides? Did you stack it with anything? Very curious about this. I think a longer DHT cycle could help my post-fin body achieve more permanent 5ar activity.

Thanks

[Cdsnuts]

You both may be right about the andractim. It's an interesting compound and I think the pathway is different than androhard.

When I put it directly on my package I feel it strongly and quickly but when I use a high dose it does cause my balls to tighten up a lil bit although my dick seems to get bigger.

CDsnuts, when did you take androhard for 16 weeks? Was this before during or after your recovery? Did it remain effective for the whole 16 weeks and how did you dose it? Any sides? Did you stack it with anything? Very curious about this. I think a longer DHT cycle could help my post-fin body achieve more permanent 5ar activity.

Thanks

It was towards the end when I considered myself recovered. Maybe three years ago. I ran it at half dose (three caps) and it was a great ride. No sides....

[Thanksgiving]

Nice....did you take all 3 caps in the morning? (would it be ok to take a single daily dose of say 6 caps of alpha hard if I did this, or should I split up the doses?)

Thanks

[Cdsnuts]

Nice....did you take all 3 caps in the morning? (would it be ok to take a single daily dose of say 6 caps of alpha hard if I did this, or should I split up the doses?)

Thanks
Alpha hard does not have the same ingredient delivery system that androhard did. I would dose Alpha hard three and three

[Thanksgiving]

Also did you get any lethargy or take anything to improve energy levels? (You said no sides so I'm assuming not)

- - - Updated - - -

I think we posted at the same time. Thanks for the advice on alpha hard dosage!