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View Full Version : My DHT optimization. Think it's working?



Freepressright
05-04-2015, 06:43 AM
1433

This vascularity and definition is with ZERO exogenous hormones. Been playing with natural DHT optimization.

Consistently doing the following:

-Pine Pollen Tincture
-Tongkat Ali
-1/8 to 1/4 cup ground sorghum in my morning protein
-Boron with breakfast
-3g Creatine HCI per day
-Nettle liquid 3x weekly
-Ashwagandha 2x daily

Pumps are sick. Sex drive is at cycle-like levels. I am vascular in the insides of my arms, across my chest, I can see the fibers in my shoulder muscles, I have veins sticking out below my beltline and even veins visible in my glutes.

Diet is super clean and being very carb conscious.

Thoughts?

Swill
05-04-2015, 08:24 AM
I think it may just be working haha... Looking super tight and vascular man! What brand sorghum are you using?

Cool guitar too, I miss my touring days!

Freepressright
05-04-2015, 08:27 AM
I think it may just be working haha... Looking super tight and vascular man! What brand sorghum are you using?

Cool guitar too, I miss my touring days!

Bob's Red Mill Whole Grain Sorghum 24 oz Pkg - Swanson Health Products (https://www.swansonvitamins.com/bobs-red-mill-whole-grain-sorghum-24-oz-pkg)

It can also be cooked and served in place of rice. But it takes an hour to cook. It is, however, delicious. Just powderizing it and adding it to my protein was a super convenient way to get it every day.

entropy
05-04-2015, 08:49 AM
Jesus Christ fpr isn't your avatar relatively recent? You've made sick progress in a few weeks from there. Congrats man. Slightly off topic question here. Are there more androgen receptors in the shoulders? I don't have your vascularity or swills lack of body fat but my shoulders seem to be more ripped, defined and vascular than anywhere else. I don't even work 'em that hard. Thoughts?

Also have you considered cycling your herbs like CD and I do? If only to save some pennies... That tka is gold but costs damn near as much. :p

Freepressright
05-04-2015, 09:00 AM
That avatar is maybe slightly more than a month old, I think. Yeah, that much progress in that amount of time. It's pretty damn crazy but my body loves what I'm putting into it, apparently. I have been quite shocked, as has my wife.

I am considering switching to a cycle like yours and CDs. As of late, the herbs I've been taking daily, I have been taking the weekends off of them to re-sensitize. I read on Anabolic Men that you can also cycle in that fashion. I figured I'd blast my body with them in that fashion at first and then switch it up to cycling an herb each day and see how I respond that way.

I am not sure about more androgen receptors in that area, but I do know that the upper trunk contains a higher concentration of androgens in the skin, hence why it can convert topical DHEA to testosterone (like Dermacrine). I do a shoulder day which consists of standing presses, seated DB presses, laterals, scarecrows and V-pushups. Seems to work OK for me.

entropy
05-04-2015, 09:15 AM
Can't wait for my herbals to come in now. Gonna tighten up the diet again and see if I can get my veins popping like that. Nice work fpr, I think its safe to consider your hormones optimised.

Swill
05-04-2015, 09:28 AM
I'm not quite that tight now Entropy unfortunately, put on some mass since getting on the super man herbs cycle that is mostly muscle but also some belly fat, due to increased aromatisation I think.

Don't mean to thread hijack, but when you both get a second I would really appreciate your input regarding which way I should go re: supplementation on the post I made on the 'Men's Health' Board...

Advice for fin related ED/no libido (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/mens-health-ancillary-medication/2715-advice-fin-related-ed-no-libido.html)

hossam
05-04-2015, 10:26 AM
Awesome progress and very nice muscularity...keep it on man

Freepressright
05-04-2015, 11:58 AM
Thanks fellas.

These shots you can see more of the bicep and some of the small veins going across it. Definite big enhancement in vascularity all around.

14351436

Haritec
05-04-2015, 03:07 PM
Wow - great shots. It must be a blast being on stage playing and knowing you are looking that ripped. Nice work.

Any chance you could post the brands for all the supps you have listed there - it is nice to know specific brands that work for someone. Also, if you were to cycle them - how would you do so ? Is this a reasonable approach for someone on TRT ?

BBG
05-04-2015, 03:22 PM
Wouldn't these DHT optimizations work with trt/test to increase the dht/t/e ratio in favor of DHT?

entropy
05-04-2015, 04:10 PM
Wouldn't these DHT optimizations work with trt/test to increase the dht/t/e ratio in favor of DHT?

Some of them. However some of them (stinging nettle, tongkat etc) are more about optimising your own T, shbg etc. I think at the very least sorghum would increase 5ar activity regardless.

weekend
05-04-2015, 05:54 PM
Tight sleeves you've got there...

Freepressright
05-04-2015, 08:01 PM
Wow - great shots. It must be a blast being on stage playing and knowing you are looking that ripped. Nice work.

Any chance you could post the brands for all the supps you have listed there - it is nice to know specific brands that work for someone. Also, if you were to cycle them - how would you do so ? Is this a reasonable approach for someone on TRT ?

Personally, I think some of the herbs would still yield you benefits while on TRT. Obviously, anything that helps with 5AR expression is going to help your DHT profile. I'd start with grabbing a bag of the Bob's Red Mill Whole Grain Sorghum from Swanson's, powderize it in a blender and start having it in your protein shakes each day.

A study showed it could increase 5AR expression by 54%.

The Pine Pollen from Superman Herbs is just damn good for anyone regardless. Since you are on TRT, I would go the route of the powder and not the tincture.

Tongkat probably wouldn't be much of a benefit to you, but the Trace Minerals Boron liquid from Swanson's helps with DHT. It's cheap, too.

You'd benefit from the Creatine HCI. The Ashwagandha is good for overall well being. Not sure you'd get much test benefit, but it's good in so many other ways that it's worth it. I used the Swanson Brand KSM66 ashwagandha.

I'd also look into adding some Butea Superba to the mix. It is said to ramp up DHT as well.

And yes, the feeling of being ripped while on stage performing is simply amazing. It gives you so much more of an edge with the crowd. The women love it! You wouldn't believe the compliments and attention it gets you :)

Luckily, I am happily married, but I still like a good ego stroking. It's nice to know I still "have it."

- - - Updated - - -


Wouldn't these DHT optimizations work with trt/test to increase the dht/t/e ratio in favor of DHT?

I believe they would

Swill
05-06-2015, 07:48 AM
Hey freepress, I'm looking to emulate your DHT optimisation along with my current regime of herb cycling (already on pine pollen powder 3x daily and cycle the tincture and TKA, amazing stuff!) but cannot find liquid boron anywhere for sale to the UK, so have ordered some caps (NOW brand), worth it given bioavailability?

Freepressright
05-06-2015, 08:18 AM
Hey freepress, I'm looking to emulate your DHT optimisation along with my current regime of herb cycling (already on pine pollen powder 3x daily and cycle the tincture and TKA, amazing stuff!) but cannot find liquid boron anywhere for sale to the UK, so have ordered some caps (NOW brand), worth it given bioavailability?

I'm sure that the NOW brand caps are fine. NOW makes pretty good stuff.

I take mine every day with breakfast. This is the liquid I use:

Amazon.com: Trace Minerals Liquid Ionic Boron, 6mg, 2 oz: Health Personal Care (http://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Liquid-Ionic-Boron/dp/B001ECXJ5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1430921770&sr=8-1&keywords=trace+minerals+boron)

I also strongly recommend this:

AINTEROL Natural Products USA, Inc. - Butea Superba Extract (http://www.ainterol.us/products/Butea-Superba-Extract-10ml-%280.33fl.oz%29.html)

Based on this:

DHT levels through the roof with Butea superba (http://www.ergo-log.com/dht-levels-through-the-roof-with-butea-superba.html)

I have an order in for the Ainterol version currently.

5 alpha victim
06-03-2015, 10:32 PM
FPR,

I'm adding in sorghum into the mix and I'm wondering if there is a trick to powderizing it in a blender. My first try at it woke up people in both units next to me because it sounded like I was using a friggin wood chipper at 3AM.

Maybe my blender is cheep? It's a 15 dollar blender from Walmart .

weekend
06-03-2015, 10:59 PM
i make sorghum pancakes with sweet white sorghum flour from bobs red mill. i mix it with high fiber coconut flour because fiber and dank flavor.

Freepressright
06-04-2015, 06:27 AM
FPR,

I'm adding in sorghum into the mix and I'm wondering if there is a trick to powderizing it in a blender. My first try at it woke up people in both units next to me because it sounded like I was using a friggin wood chipper at 3AM.

Maybe my blender is cheep? It's a 15 dollar blender from Walmart .

I have the next step up in blenders. It's an Oster brand with the glass pitcher. I put a cup of sorghum in there at a time and use the CHOP setting. It does a pretty damn good job of powderizing it. You'll get just a little bit of grit with it, but I don't mind that. If you are bothered by the grit, use a small strainer and sift it into your shaker cup and it will be an almost dissolvable powder.

5 alpha victim
06-05-2015, 05:39 PM
Putting one cup at a time in the blender was key. It seems to go pretty good with shakes.
I'm going with 1/4 of a cup just like you said. I'm making this an every day thing.

Thanks

Freepressright
06-08-2015, 09:01 AM
Putting one cup at a time in the blender was key. It seems to go pretty good with shakes.
I'm going with 1/4 of a cup just like you said. I'm making this an every day thing.

Thanks

Prepare to have the intestinal regularity of Superman, too. I'm shitting about 3 times a day from all the added fiber.

5 alpha victim
06-09-2015, 08:07 PM
LoL thats why I'm seeing this...

I thought it was the Pine Pollen that I added in around the same time I added in the Sorghum

Speck
06-09-2015, 08:38 PM
Eating raw, ground sorghum is basically eating raw flour. Could be quite hard on the digestive system.

Why not add it to oats and make porridge/oatmeal?

weekend
06-09-2015, 10:27 PM
Eating raw, ground sorghum is basically eating raw flour. Could be quite hard on the digestive system.

Why not add it to oats and make porridge/oatmeal?

coconut flour + sorghum flour + cottage cheese + eggs + blueberries = amazing pancakes

only room for them while bulking tho

BBG
06-09-2015, 10:49 PM
coconut flour + sorghum flour + cottage cheese + eggs + blueberries = amazing pancakes

only room for them while bulking tho

I just made some damn good cookies with coconut flour, milk, eggs, stevia and vanilla extract.

Freepressright
06-10-2015, 06:09 AM
Eating raw, ground sorghum is basically eating raw flour. Could be quite hard on the digestive system.

Why not add it to oats and make porridge/oatmeal?

Because oats are like swallowing battery acid for me. Eating oats = Acid reflux to the max.

I'm taking raw, ground sorghum every day in my shake and I'm more regular than ever with completely normal stools. It would be a stretch for me to believe any adverse effects are going to come of it.

5 alpha victim
06-10-2015, 04:10 PM
Eating raw, ground sorghum is basically eating raw flour. Could be quite hard on the digestive system.

Why not add it to oats and make porridge/oatmeal?

It is getting powderized though before getting added into the shake.

derekh83
06-11-2015, 01:59 PM
FPR, does your wife use this also? Would this have a positive effect for women? I know DHT is not great for women at all, but being this is a natural source would it effect them differently than a DHT hormonal supplement? I think it would because it optimizes the persons natural DHT levels. If I made sorghum pancakes, and she eats them will I dude-ify her? Probably a dumb question. I have no experience with sorghum or natural DHT optimization so if Im complete out in left field let me know.

5 alpha victim
06-11-2015, 02:49 PM
If she's eating them every day maybe so.

After all you don't want her squating more than you...

But seriously these sorghum pancakes are sounding amazing.

Freepressright
06-12-2015, 08:55 AM
FPR, does your wife use this also? Would this have a positive effect for women? I know DHT is not great for women at all, but being this is a natural source would it effect them differently than a DHT hormonal supplement? I think it would because it optimizes the persons natural DHT levels. If I made sorghum pancakes, and she eats them will I dude-ify her? Probably a dumb question. I have no experience with sorghum or natural DHT optimization so if Im complete out in left field let me know.

She'll be fine, Derek. Sorghum was a staple in middle Eastern diets since the beginning of time. She doesn't carry a high enough test balance for this to be a threat to her femininity.

derekh83
06-12-2015, 09:42 AM
She'll be fine, Derek. Sorghum was a staple in middle Eastern diets since the beginning of time. She doesn't carry a high enough test balance for this to be a threat to her femininity.

Lol Thanks FPR. I assumed she would be fine but we all know what happens when you assume. How long does a 24oz bag last you, and how much is your daily intake?

5AV - I am totally ok with her squatting more than me cause that ass would be killer.

Nevermind - Missed it in your first post. -1/8 to 1/4 cup ground sorghum in my morning protein

Freepressright
06-12-2015, 11:52 AM
Lol Thanks FPR. I assumed she would be fine but we all know what happens when you assume. How long does a 24oz bag last you, and how much is your daily intake?

5AV - I am totally ok with her squatting more than me cause that ass would be killer.

Nevermind - Missed it in your first post. -1/8 to 1/4 cup ground sorghum in my morning protein

I've found a blender works much better for chopping the sorghum than a cheap food processor. And like I said, if it's too gritty for you, sift it with a small strainer.