Closest thing to the Andro Series

[MikePwnzNubs]

I was around the primordial performance website but did more research then actual posting there. The website was a wealth of knowledge that I am truly sad to see go. For pro hormones / steroids the only thing I really trusted in my body was the Andro Series. All there products had loads of information to go along with them and they broke down every ingredient so you knew exactly what you were putting into your body. Since they are no more I am little lost on who and what to turn to as nothing really seems to meet the same standards. I'm currently sitting on the 2 Androlean, 2 AndroBulk and 2 Andromass but within the next year or so they will also be no more.

I am a huge fan of the DHEA base and being non-methylated so as you can see these were the premium pick of the crop. I'm really looking for the safest comparable substance, I appreciate a cycle with less side effects and an overall feeling of health rather then a 15/20lb muscle gain that was a complete train ride. The only thing I can really find close that meets this criteria is Forerunner Labs Alpha series, although they don't seem to be a very complete solution, more like something you would add to stack. And there is also the AndroFactory, but considering they ripped off Primordial they will never see a dime from me regardless how close their products are. Any suggestions out there, I'm sure many people are looking for the same thing.

P.S. Great Job on the new website!

[DJM]

ANAVAR methyl, but probably safer than tylenol, itll give lean dry gains and i wouldnt hesitate running it 8-10wks at 50mg with minor supports.....worst side is its price if legit

[h2s]

The forerunner stuff is not a bad choice. You just have to dose much higher to get a comparable effect.

[Anonymous]

What about Advanced Muscle Science?

[pitboss]

What about Advanced Muscle Science?

They own Forerunner. The same holds true, gotta up the dose to equal PP Andro stuff.

[igetbuckets]

I was around the primordial performance website but did more research then actual posting there. The website was a wealth of knowledge that I am truly sad to see go. For pro hormones / steroids the only thing I really trusted in my body was the Andro Series. All there products had loads of information to go along with them and they broke down every ingredient so you knew exactly what you were putting into your body. Since they are no more I am little lost on who and what to turn to as nothing really seems to meet the same standards. I'm currently sitting on the 2 Androlean, 2 AndroBulk and 2 Andromass but within the next year or so they will also be no more.

I am a huge fan of the DHEA base and being non-methylated so as you can see these were the premium pick of the crop. I'm really looking for the safest comparable substance, I appreciate a cycle with less side effects and an overall feeling of health rather then a 15/20lb muscle gain that was a complete train ride. The only thing I can really find close that meets this criteria is Forerunner Labs Alpha series, although they don't seem to be a very complete solution, more like something you would add to stack. And there is also the AndroFactory, but considering they ripped off Primordial they will never see a dime from me regardless how close their products are. Any suggestions out there, I'm sure many people are looking for the same thing.

P.S. Great Job on the new website!

If you were looking to unload those andromass bottles I would be interested. I have also been looking for the same solution to an alternative product, and it seems like the alpha series is much more reliable than the andro factory stuff. Basically no reviews on andro factory products aside from the same poster who raids every forum I try to research on...just don't want to buy 4 bottles of alpha mass or alpha bulk and have it still be less effective than andro mass but may be the only option.

Also posted this question on PP's website

[Freepressright]

I will be giving Forerunner my business from now on if non-methylated, DHEA-based prohormones are my desire.

[Jack O'Neill]

The forerunner stuff is not a bad choice. You just have to dose much higher to get a comparable effect.

According to info on their website AlphaBulk give about 60g DHEA for 3 caps instead of 200g DHEA for 3 caps of AndroBulk
We should at least take 4x 3 caps of Alpha Bulk.

I'm right ?

[markam]

According to info on their website AlphaBulk give about 60g DHEA for 3 caps instead of 200g DHEA for 3 caps of AndroBulk
We should at least take 4x 3 caps of Alpha Bulk.

I'm right ?

Androbulk
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 softgels
Servings per container: 56

 Amount Per Serving %Daily Value  
Super-4-DHEA™    
(3-beta-enanthoxyandrost-4-en-17-one) 300mg* -  
Super-19-DHEA™    
(3-beta-enanthoyloxynorandrost-4-en-17-one) 102mg* -  
Liqua-Vade Hormone Transport Complex™ 2858mg* -  

[Jack O'Neill]

Androbulk
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 softgels
Servings per container: 56

 Amount Per Serving %Daily Value  
Super-4-DHEA™    
(3-beta-enanthoxyandrost-4-en-17-one) 300mg* -  
Super-19-DHEA™    
(3-beta-enanthoyloxynorandrost-4-en-17-one) 102mg* -  
Liqua-Vade Hormone Transport Complex™ 2858mg* -  

So dosage x5 just for 4DHEA, about 15 caps of Alphabulk for just 3 caps of AndroBulk
And I don't even talk about 19DHEA!!!

[Freepressright]

There is no 19DHEA in any Forerunner product. Alpha Bulk is comparable to Andro Mass, not Andro Bulk.

[markam]

There is no 19DHEA in any Forerunner product. Alpha Bulk is comparable to Andro Mass, not Andro Bulk.

Ha, so is there a Alpha Mass that's similar to Andobulk? LOL Really dislike the blatent name plagarism, but hey, whatever. If they're a good sub for the Androseries, that's good enough.

[Freepressright]

Alpha Mass = 1-DHEA
Alpha Bulk = 4-DHEA
5-Alpha Test - R-DHEA

As you know, Primordial dumped the 1-DHEA altogether because it causes lethargy that simply cannot be full eradicated by another oral DHEA of any variety. Dermacrine, however, is capable of mitigating it. Part of that, I suspect, is the DHEA conversion via skin enzymes being more effective/efficient and the neurostimulation of the pregenolone.

[Freepressright]

Some additional thoughts on this whole Forerunner thing while I'm thinking about it...

Everyone's quick to point out the lower doses of the actives, but nearly all feedback on the Forerunner products is good. I have a theory about that, which runs parallel with a theory about testosterone.

Moderate doses of testosterone seem to be more effective than mega doses. I'm thinking that the moderate dose method of a testosterone precursor like 4-DHEA may hold true to that principle as welll, provided the delivery system is good.

Whilst you do not have the grapefruit to enhance absorption of the Forerunner products, the fatty acids in the carrier are very similar to the AndroSeries.

And yes, you could conceivably stack the Alpha Bulk (4-DHEA) with Alpha Mass (1-DHEA). However, almost all reports I've read indicate that the 4-DHEA by itself is not enough to mitigate the lethargy and loss of libido associated with the 1-DHEA.

Primordial also ran into this issue with the first version of AndroMass.

My suggestion would be to run a high dose of Forerunner's 5-Alpha Test, a healthy dose of Alpha Bulk and a lower dose of Alpha Mass. The synergistic effects of the two DHEAs would provide good clean gains and the synergy between the 4-DHEA and the DHT from the epiandrosterone in the 5-Alpha Test would help to eradicate the lethargy.

Dermacrine, obviously, would be a great choice, but it's no longer available.

[DJM]

i think more test is better, luckily it doesnt bloat me tho,gives a thermo effect actually

[h2s]

Moderate doses of testosterone seem to be more effective than mega doses.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/monsterguide/images/5/raised%20eyebrow.jpg

[AZMIDLYF]

I ran 5-Alpha at rec dose and AlphaBulk at 12 caps ed and loved the combo. I put on 6lbs of clean weight.

[sandman]

forerunner and androfactory are both good to go companies making similar products

[pitboss]

What was the whole debacle over Androfactory about a year ago?

[Freepressright]

forerunner and androfactory are both good to go companies making similar products

I won't give a dime to AndroFactory. Intellectual property theft isn't something I want to support.

[pitboss]

I just checked their website. Seems sheisty .... With no more PP my money will go to Antaeus and AMS.

[Jack O'Neill]

I just checked their website. Seems sheisty .... With no more PP my money will go to Antaeus and AMS.

+1

Antaeus for my next cycle. Sure!

[sandman]

I just checked their website. Seems sheisty .... With no more PP my money will go to Antaeus and AMS.

really?

[pitboss]

really?

Really as in their website or really where my hard earned $ will go for quality products?

[sandman]

Really as in their website or really where my hard earned $ will go for quality products?

really as in i believe their much better quality out there than antaeus and ams

[markam]

really as in i believe their much better quality out there than antaeus and ams

So you think Androfactory is better than AMS and Anteaus??? Really?

You do know that Androfactory is a blatant ripoff of PP's Androseries, and a poor quality one at that?

Also, there is nothing really comparable to the products that Antaeus are bringing to market. Not sure how you can make a comparison between such very different companies, and products.
Don't see much love if any for Androfactory, except from reps, of course. Hmmm.

[Freepressright]

I have to agree. The owner of AndroFactory is a woman named Venus who worked for PP and ripped off (and poorly at that) their ideas. I don't support thieves.

[sandman]

So you think Androfactory is better than AMS and Anteaus??? Really?

You do know that Androfactory is a blatant ripoff of PP's Androseries, and a poor quality one at that?

Also, there is nothing really comparable to the products that Antaeus are bringing to market. Not sure how you can make a comparison between such very different companies, and products.
Don't see much love if any for Androfactory, except from reps, of course. Hmmm.

i referred ppl to androfactory and forerunner in comparision to the andro series

then i responded to someone taking ams which is underdosed and anteaus which seems to get mixed reviews, when there are other solid companies out there with proven track records like IML

[h2s]

i referred ppl to androfactory and forerunner in comparision to the andro series

then i responded to someone taking ams which is underdosed and anteaus which seems to get mixed reviews, when there are other solid companies out there with proven track records like IML

Where are the mixed reviews on Antaeus? News to me.

As for AMS being underdosed, it isn't underdosed as it is priced accordingly. If one wanted AndroSeries type doses, you could buy multiple bottles.

Also, I stand by the Anti-Venus shit. If you guys only knew half of it.

[Freepressright]

i referred ppl to androfactory and forerunner in comparision to the andro series

then i responded to someone taking ams which is underdosed and anteaus which seems to get mixed reviews, when there are other solid companies out there with proven track records like IML

I've not seen any mixed reviews of Antaeus products. And I wouldn't feel good comparing them to an upstart company with questionable roots.

I have to agree with H2S on AMS products being priced appropriately for the dose. AMS is also a reputable company overall and run by good people.

[sandman]

Where are the mixed reviews on Antaeus? News to me.

As for AMS being underdosed, it isn't underdosed as it is priced accordingly. If one wanted AndroSeries type doses, you could buy multiple bottles.

Also, I stand by the Anti-Venus shit. If you guys only knew half of it.

supplementreviews.com...quick google search on the antaeus labs...7/10 rating are ok but i'm not bashing, i'd just stick with proven compounds and companies....can't say i really trust that company yet

i was referring to the AMS line of stuff not the forerunner....the ams products are underdosed, the forerunner stuff is fine

[h2s]

supplementreviews.com...quick google search on the antaeus labs...7/10 rating are ok but i'm not bashing, i'd just stick with proven compounds and companies....can't say i really trust that company yet

i was referring to the AMS line of stuff not the forerunner....the ams products are underdosed, the forerunner stuff is fine

A standard NO booster is also rated within the top 10 products. Need I say more. I never take those reviews seriously. A majority of the reviews on that site are guys that can fit into their girlfriend's tshirts.

We will also agree to disagree on the AMS products.

[pitboss]

I stand by my statement. Antaeus is the new PP. Hopefully, they will expand their line. AMS is legit and offer many non-methyl options.

[Freepressright]

supplementreviews.com...quick google search on the antaeus labs...7/10 rating are ok but i'm not bashing, i'd just stick with proven compounds and companies....can't say i really trust that company yet

i was referring to the AMS line of stuff not the forerunner....the ams products are underdosed, the forerunner stuff is fine

AMS products are not underdosed for the price you're paying. Read the PP steroid profiles on 1 and 4 DHEA under the recommended doses and you will find that a bottle of AMS 1 or 4 DHEA will give you 30 days of doses within what is suggested.

Where does your confidence in AndroFactory come from?

- - - Updated - - -

And most of the people who write reviews on supplementreviews.com have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're talking about. I take any reviewer on there with a grain of salt.

[Cobalt]

If only AL started making something that was test based.
I'd stock up on it and Trenazone.

[sandman]

AMS products are not underdosed for the price you're paying. Read the PP steroid profiles on 1 and 4 DHEA under the recommended doses and you will find that a bottle of AMS 1 or 4 DHEA will give you 30 days of doses within what is suggested.

Where does your confidence in AndroFactory come from?

- - - Updated - - -

And most of the people who write reviews on supplementreviews.com have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're talking about. I take any reviewer on there with a grain of salt.

i believe your talking about the dhea products put out under the forerunner label and not the rde products made by ams

[BBG]

supplementreviews.com...quick google search on the antaeus labs...7/10 rating are ok but i'm not bashing, i'd just stick with proven compounds and companies....can't say i really trust that company yet

i was referring to the AMS line of stuff not the forerunner....the ams products are underdosed, the forerunner stuff is fine

Well I hope you come around and give Antaeus Labs a try at some point. Powerful, quality products is what we do best. If you have any questions just make a thread or give me a pm.

[banker23]

I stand by my statement. Antaeus is the new PP. Hopefully, they will expand their line. AMS is legit and offer many non-methyl options.


How is Antaeus the new PP? Didn't the owner say he was going to quit doing PH's completely after Ultradrol and focus on Aegis and other non-hormonal products?

...When I saw this post, I thought maybe something had changed so I went to their site. All they had was trenazone and 4 other non-hormonal non-anabolic non-androgenic products. At this point, I am hoping someone comes up with a close replacement for sustain alpha topical. I just got a bottle from some place in england (last gen though).

[sandman]

Well I hope you come around and give Antaeus Labs a try at some point. Powerful, quality products is what we do best. If you have any questions just make a thread or give me a pm.

i plan on trying trena zone but i'll be honest i'm probably going to be stacking it with a tried and true ph like halo extreme

i wasn't trying to bash anyone or anything, it was in response to someone claiming they'd probably make antaeus and ams their exclusive hormone companies from now on

[h2s]

i plan on trying trena zone but i'll be honest i'm probably going to be stacking it with a tried and true ph like halo extreme

i wasn't trying to bash anyone or anything, it was in response to someone claiming they'd probably make antaeus and ams their exclusive hormone companies from now on

I have no reason to push them, if anything I am a rep for a company with a competitive product. However, Trenazone is hands down one of my favorite designers.

[pitboss]

I stand by my statement. Antaeus is the new PP. Hopefully, they will expand their line. AMS is legit and offer many non-methyl options.


How is Antaeus the new PP? Didn't the owner say he was going to quit doing PH's completely after Ultradrol and focus on Aegis and other non-hormonal products?

...When I saw this post, I thought maybe something had changed so I went to their site. All they had was trenazone and 4 other non-hormonal non-anabolic non-androgenic products. At this point, I am hoping someone comes up with a close replacement for sustain alpha topical. I just got a bottle from some place in england (last gen though).

Not an exact copy of PP, but a company that's innovative and high-quality. Yes, I hope they expand their line to include topicals, PCT products, other hormonals. If I'm not mistaken they will be releasing something cool in the next month or 2.

[banker23]

Not an exact copy of PP, but a company that's innovative and high-quality. Yes, I hope they expand their line to include topicals, PCT products, other hormonals. If I'm not mistaken they will be relasing something cool in the next month or 2.

I will keep my eyes peeled. Thanks for the clarification.

[BBG]

i plan on trying trena zone but i'll be honest i'm probably going to be stacking it with a tried and true ph like halo extreme

i wasn't trying to bash anyone or anything, it was in response to someone claiming they'd probably make antaeus and ams their exclusive hormone companies from now on

Trenazone was launched on August 25th, 2010. Over two years ago and still going very strong. Trenazone is the flagship product of Antaeus Labs and has an incredible number of great reviews from well respected veterans across at least a dozen bodybuilding forums. Every single batch we release is tested and the test is available online. I've had only a single customer experience limited results with trenazone. We refunded him the price of the trenazone and we sent him mechabol as an apology that our products failed him.


I stand by my statement. Antaeus is the new PP. Hopefully, they will expand their line. AMS is legit and offer many non-methyl options.


How is Antaeus the new PP? Didn't the owner say he was going to quit doing PH's completely after Ultradrol and focus on Aegis and other non-hormonal products?

...When I saw this post, I thought maybe something had changed so I went to their site. All they had was trenazone and 4 other non-hormonal non-anabolic non-androgenic products. At this point, I am hoping someone comes up with a close replacement for sustain alpha topical. I just got a bottle from some place in england (last gen though).

I believe the comment was in regard to being a company that provides potent, high quality, thoroughly tested, innovative (never seen before) products and great customer service to support their costumers.

Antaeus Labs is not getting out of the PH game. We have a new anabolic coming very soon.

Ultradrol - First Methylstenbolone product.
Trenazone - First Dienolone product.
Demiurge - First widely available Phenylpiracetam product.
Axon - First Hederagenin product.
Aegis - First Polyenylphosphatidylcholine that also includes Tauroursodeoxycholic acid
Mechabol - First Methylclostebol product.

We do not just repackage, recycle and/or reuse products other people have already released. Neither did Primordial. Both companies are heralded new products that most had never seen before. Antaeus Labs will continue to do that.

[xxiv]

I've had only a single customer experience limited results with trenazone. We refunded him the price of the trenazone and we sent him mechabol as an apology that our products failed him.


I am sure there are nonresponders and miscalulations and misunderstandings and unforseen this and thats, nothing is going to meet everyones expectations. A refund and replacement product is an admerable way to keep the doors open with a less than satisfied customer for whatever reason.

[milehighguy]

I have no reason to push them, if anything I am a rep for a company with a competitive product. However, Trenazone is hands down one of my favorite designers.

h2s, can you share some additional thoughts on why this is your fav?? low sides, lots of strength, ???

[h2s]

h2s, can you share some additional thoughts on why this is your fav?? low sides, lots of strength, ???

I jumped on expecting it to be decent, but just a way to lead into my cycle that has had some unfortunate delays. Out of no where I will filling up and leaning out. My diet hasn't adjusted much (although I eat fairly well in general), but I have moved the scale up from about 198/9 to 203/4, while looking leaner. I am looking a bit more filled out in general and vascularity is increasing. In the gym the pumps can be borderline stupid good. Strength has been increasing as well, but I haven't been pushing the envelope much here because I still need to push my focus into my upcoming cycle.

[ktrainXr]

I was dumb enough to give AndroFactory a shot. 2 bottles of Bulk-Up. Absolutely no strength gains, no increase in lean muscle...nothing but a constant headache, lethargy, and some hair growth. Complete junk, which I should have suspected from a company that states on their front page "Because your worth it." No dipshnits...it should be you're as in the conjugated version of you are. Sorry, but I'm still a bit upset...maybe most of all at myself for being desperate enough to buy that crap.

I digress. I did have pretty great success with PP's AHardV3 and AMassV3, and found them to be the only oral supplements that reduced medial meniscus pain in my right knee. I was even able to run again. Sadly those are gone and I have found no comparable replacement. I've been running Ipam/Mod GFR for a month, but would surely like to find an effictive PH to add since I'm not comfortable enough to run test yet. I'll look into Antaeus for sure. Any suggestions for something that would be comparable to AHard/AMass in terms of healing/recovery and strength gains ?

[burlyman30]

As far as healing properties and strength gains, look into trenazone. It's well known for both.

[markam]

As far as healing properties and strength gains, look into trenazone. It's well known for both.

Healing properties? I did not know that. I did know that it may help with a flat chest, though:)

[burlyman30]

Healing properties? I did not know that. I did know that it may help with a flat chest, though:)

When using trenazone, my muscle soreness was gone in 1/2 the normal amount of time. I've never had a PH increase healing/protein synthesis so quickly.

[markam]

When using trenazone, my muscle soreness was gone in 1/2 the normal amount of time. I've never had a PH increase healing/protein synthesis so quickly.

Oh, you were referring to Doms. I've always found recovery notably quicker on cycle, so for you to mention it, Trenazone must be excellent in that respect. Have you any experience with Mechabol? I understand that people were initially dosing it too low and that 100-125mgs is now considered a good dosage.

[burlyman30]

Oh, you were referring to Doms. I've always found recovery notably quicker on cycle, so for you to mention it, Trenazone must be excellent in that respect. Have you any experience with Mechabol? I understand that people were initially dosing it too low and that 100-125mgs is now considered a good dosage.

It also seemed to make most of my nagging injuries go away. Only problem with it's strength increasing properties is that you can push heavier and heavier weight, creating a possibility of new injury.

Haven't used Mechabol yet. I have one bottle sitting around, but that wont be enough for several weeks now that we know dosages are being run much higher than originally thought. Haven't used any methyls in over a year with my health being compromised for so long. I'll probably give it a go in a few months. We'll see.

[ktrainXr]

As far as healing properties and strength gains, look into trenazone. It's well known for both.

Yes, this seems like a great possibility. I may run it with stanodrol then. I'm ready for a bulk anyway.

I would be shooting for 250+ g protein, 350+ g carb, 3000 Kcal. I have Erase Pro and AnaBeta Elite on hand for AI and cortisol control.

Recommendations on the tren/stano dosages ? (Age=34, 6ft 190lbs, BF@9% 7yrs of heavy lifting. Prev non-methyl PH experience.)

Suggestions for a SERM or other anchillaries? Much thanks for this thread and your suggestion burly ! Hopefully this can cure my androseries blues.

[Bucks]

Oh, you were referring to Doms. I've always found recovery notably quicker on cycle, so for you to mention it, Trenazone must be excellent in that respect. Have you any experience with Mechabol? I understand that people were initially dosing it too low and that 100-125mgs is now considered a good dosage.

I'm running Mech @150 with Trenazone @2ml . AH AM base. Pumps are insane, muscle endurance is unbelievable , muscle recovery is one day, superman feeling the whole time in the gym.

For me the goal is recomp for this cycle, and Im loving it.

[Matt Porter]

Has anyone tried mega-dosing 1 Andro & 4-Andro RX?

I will be having a tester experiment with 500 mg of each product (10 caps each)

to see if we get something as good or better than other DHEA isomers...I am unsure about this experiment

-Matt

[Enuke65]

Intrigued