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Cobalt
11-23-2012, 03:11 PM
I'm looking into another cycle later, and Test P is an option.

I've run Test E, so I don't know if I want to try Test P.

What would be the real differences? I know that I'd have to pin more often (I've done ED pinning for a good 8 weeks with another substance, so I can manage), but would there be any advantages over Test E?

I can get the Test E cheaper, and I'm leaning to just running it again, but Test P just seems to be more popular for some reason.

burlyman30
11-23-2012, 03:25 PM
Test P tends to bloat less. Test P has more active testosterone per ml because the ester takes up less "room", so you get more testosterone per dose. Test P kicks in faster and harder. PCT can start faster upon cessation.

Those are the things that come to mind right off the bat.

Cobalt
11-23-2012, 04:48 PM
Sounds good... I think I may just give Test P a try. It was kinda rough waiting to start PCT on my last cycle.

Rodja
11-23-2012, 06:46 PM
E will still have 2.5x more powder per vial. Even when you account for ester weight, you're still getting ~1.75g of actual test with E compared to ~.85g with P. I go with E because pinning ED gets really old and you get more active per vial.

Mr_math
11-23-2012, 09:25 PM
And e would be more dose dependent but if you ran 250 would you pin 2x week or 3x?

Cobalt
11-23-2012, 09:41 PM
And e would be more dose dependent but if you ran 250 would you pin 2x week or 3x?

Last run was 500mg/wk of Test E. Pinned 2 times a week, usually Wednesday and Saturday - 250mg each time.

This run, I want to up the dose to 600mg/wk. If I go with Test E again, it'll be the same, only 300mg each time.
OR, if it is Test P, it'll be ED at ~85mg/day.
I know a lot of people say that ED pinning gets old, but I've also pinned a short ester ED for 8 weeks, and I didn't mind.

Just something about pinning ED gets me fired up... maybe I'm just a masochist.

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 12:29 AM
Nice nice. I'm think about E at 300/wk. need to be more discrete lol.

You running it with anything??

I'm thinking dbol lol but probably won't do it. I like to dream.

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 06:41 AM
You running it with anything??

Deca, maybe 400mg/wk.
I ran it at 300mg/wk with the Test E last time. It was a wild cycle.

Coolazice
11-24-2012, 09:27 AM
Nice nice. I'm think about E at 300/wk. need to be more discrete lol.

You running it with anything??

I'm thinking dbol lol but probably won't do it. I like to dream.

Get some Var to go with the Test. ;)

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 11:50 AM
Deca, maybe 400mg/wk.
I ran it at 300mg/wk with the Test E last time. It was a wild cycle.

Damn I bet!! Was the bloat bad??

- - - Updated - - -


Get some Var to go with the Test. ;)

This was an idea I had as well. Var is niiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Lethargy was tough at times. But worth it.

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Damn I bet!! Was the bloat bad??

Hard to say really. It wasn't 'bad' per se, I kinda liked it, I really blew up and got wicked pumps.
It was noticeable when I ended the cycle, the bloat went away, but even after the cycle and pct was over, I had put on some really good size and strength.

Rodja
11-24-2012, 12:34 PM
Bloat on both E and Deca are very overrated. Most of has to do with poor electrolyte balance and excessive carb intake. Think of this: most of the time these compounds are used on a "bulk" and people get loose with their diets.

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 12:38 PM
Hard to say really. It wasn't 'bad' per se, I kinda liked it, I really blew up and got wicked pumps.
It was noticeable when I ended the cycle, the bloat went away, but even after the cycle and pct was over, I had put on some really good size and strength.

That's good shit.

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 12:43 PM
Bloat on both E and Deca are very overrated. Most of has to do with poor electrolyte balance and excessive carb intake. Think of this: most of the time these compounds are used on a "bulk" and people get loose with their diets.

Makes sense. It is dependent on the person for sure. Totally see where you are coming from.

I have to be somewhat discrete about the changes that will occur when I get my run going.

Rodja
11-24-2012, 12:55 PM
Makes sense. It is dependent on the person for sure. Totally see where you are coming from.

I have to be somewhat discrete about the changes that will occur when I get my run going.

Test and EQ would be best. They both add mass slowly and EQ does not have the bloat concern as deca does while still having the joint health aspect.

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 03:13 PM
Test and EQ would be best. They both add mass slowly and EQ does not have the bloat concern as deca does while still having the joint health aspect.


Hmm will keep this in mind. Part of me was thinking tbol but I haven't decided what else to pair with E. looking at a small amount dosage wise as well for the first go.

DJM
11-24-2012, 03:22 PM
Hmm will keep this in mind. Part of me was thinking tbol but I haven't decided what else to pair with E. looking at a small amount dosage wise as well for the first go.

id do the test/eq also 500/600
if you have more cash do tbol first 5weeks at 50mg ed
thats a slow ramp, clean gains, minimal sides run

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 03:52 PM
How often does EQ need to be dosed?

Rodja
11-24-2012, 03:56 PM
How often does EQ need to be dosed?

1x/week

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 04:17 PM
1x/week

Hmmmm, I may look into doing it instead of Deca then...

Rodja
11-24-2012, 04:20 PM
Hmmmm, I may look into doing it instead of Deca then...

Deca has the same dosing protocol, but is more suppressive and has more estrogen/progesterone side effects.

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 05:44 PM
Deca has the same dosing protocol, but is more suppressive and has more estrogen/progesterone side effects.

I've heard that it didn't have the same joint 'lubrication' effects as deca, which is why I didn't try it last time.
As seeing that it apparently does do it, I really don't see a reason NOT to run it instead.

burlyman30
11-24-2012, 05:59 PM
I've heard that it didn't have the same joint 'lubrication' effects as deca, which is why I didn't try it last time.
As seeing that it apparently does do it, I really don't see a reason NOT to run it instead.

You'll get differing opinions here. I think you will "feel" the deca more and it probably lubricates the joints a bit more even at half the dosage of EQ. However, I have read that EQ's collagen building attributes are slightly superior to deca even though it is not quite as potent on skeletal muscle.

Also keep in mind that EQ is a slow builder and I would never recommend it for any cycle shorter than 16 weeks, with 20+ being better.

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Cobalt
11-24-2012, 06:57 PM
Also keep in mind that EQ is a slow builder and I would never recommend it for any cycle shorter than 16 weeks, with 20+ being better.

Wow, a 20+ week cycle? I did a 12 week run last time, and I was going to aim for a 16 week this time...

What do you think would be a better cycle, a 16 week with deca or 20 with eq?

Mr_math
11-24-2012, 07:14 PM
Yeah I was thinking 12 wks w/ no more than 300 E and something else to go with it. I'm not looking for a huge monster cycle. Honestly was planning cruising for a bit on around 250-300 total a week. Slow n steady.

burlyman30
11-24-2012, 07:56 PM
Yeah I was thinking 12 wks w/ no more than 300 E and something else to go with it. I'm not looking for a huge monster cycle. Honestly was planning cruising for a bit on around 250-300 total a week. Slow n steady.

That's a nice cruiser, although I'd take it to 14 or 16 weeks at that lower dosage.

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burlyman30
11-24-2012, 08:00 PM
Wow, a 20+ week cycle? I did a 12 week run last time, and I was going to aim for a 16 week this time...

What do you think would be a better cycle, a 16 week with deca or 20 with eq?

Keep in mind you are talking about daily injects for 16-20 weeks if you stay with the test p. Not sure if that would be a factor. Again, opinions will differ on this, but if you were looking to bulk a bit more, I'd do the deca and if you wanted a leaner slower gain, I'd probably go EQ.

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Mr_math
11-24-2012, 08:03 PM
That's a nice cruiser, although I'd take it to 14 or 16 weeks at that lower dosage.

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Makes sense. Just want the first run to be something I can ease into and see how it all works out. More so the process not really the product itself. If I were to run something with the E I'd end up keeping overall dose under 300. Probably 250. Just need to determine what would be the best choice.

burlyman30
11-24-2012, 08:23 PM
Makes sense. Just want the first run to be something I can ease into and see how it all works out. More so the process not really the product itself. If I were to run something with the E I'd end up keeping overall dose under 300. Probably 250. Just need to determine what would be the best choice.

I think you would likely be happiest running test at 300 and deca at 3-400. My. 02. Inexpensive, effective, but not bloated beyond recognition.

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Mr_math
11-24-2012, 08:30 PM
I think you would likely be happiest running test at 300 and deca at 3-400. My. 02. Inexpensive, effective, but not bloated beyond recognition.

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Hmm... Will keep this in mind as I get closer... Few things I really need to iron out first.

Cobalt
11-24-2012, 09:54 PM
Keep in mind you are talking about daily injects for 16-20 weeks if you stay with the test p. Not sure if that would be a factor. Again, opinions will differ on this, but if you were looking to bulk a bit more, I'd do the deca and if you wanted a leaner slower gain, I'd probably go EQ.

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I'm thinking that if I did anything over 16 weeks that I would go with the Test E hands down. I could see myself doing ED pinning for 16 weeks at a maximum. That is just a lot of needles. :rolleyes:

DJM
11-25-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah I was thinking 12 wks w/ no more than 300 E and something else to go with it. I'm not looking for a huge monster cycle. Honestly was planning cruising for a bit on around 250-300 total a week. Slow n steady.

monster cycle equals strength of compounds and doses, not so much length

- - - Updated - - -


Makes sense. Just want the first run to be something I can ease into and see how it all works out. More so the process not really the product itself. If I were to run something with the E I'd end up keeping overall dose under 300. Probably 250. Just need to determine what would be the best choice.

you just answered youself, as test needs to be run higher than deca, bro lore says 3:2
eq no need

Mr_math
11-25-2012, 12:27 PM
monster cycle equals strength of compounds and doses, not so much length

- - - Updated - - -



you just answered youself, as test needs to be run higher than deca, bro lore says 3:2
eq no need


Appreciated, will keep that in mind if deca will be the choice in the future.

burlyman30
11-25-2012, 12:28 PM
test needs to be run higher than deca, bro lore says 3:2
eq no need

You'd think Id know stuff like that, huh? Go figure. I understand the reasoning behind it, I just prefer a different ratio. Deca just feels "cleaner" to me.

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Cobalt
11-25-2012, 06:26 PM
Cleaner than test, or eq?
I'm planning on getting stuff soon, but I really feel like I'm still on the fence with eq or deca :(

burlyman30
11-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Cleaner than test, or eq?
I'm planning on getting stuff soon, but I really feel like I'm still on the fence with eq or deca :(


Sorry for the confusion. What I was referring to is that I'd prefer a cycle of lesser test and more deca. Too high of test, to me, just turns into bloat and acne with diminishing returns as far as muscle gained.

Things to think about in deciding EQ or deca: deca you can do in 12-16 weeks with 200-400mg/wk and EQ you'll want to do for 16-20+ with 400-800mg/wk. Deca you will feel much sooner. EQ is more like primo in that it takes a while to feel. Also, if you take note of the greater amount of weeks and higher doses, EQ will be costing you a fair bit more.

That being said, I like them both. Figure out your goals and timeframe and budget and see if any of those turn you one direction or another.

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Cobalt
11-25-2012, 10:09 PM
I think I'll just stick with deca and run a 16 week cycle. Going from a 12 to a 20 week cycle may be a bit much for me.
Thanks all for the advice, you all never let me down.

h2s
11-25-2012, 10:55 PM
Looking forward to the log...you are logging right :)

Mr_math
11-25-2012, 10:59 PM
Looking forward to the log...you are logging right :)

Lol well played sir.

Cobalt
11-26-2012, 07:39 AM
Looking forward to the log...you are logging right :)

You got me, LOL

Mr_math
11-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Any one have thoughts on halo 30-35mg/day with test e at 300/wk?

Moreso, just any thoughts on halo? Are the sides that severe?

burlyman30
11-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Any one have thoughts on halo 30-35mg/day with test e at 300/wk?

Moreso, just any thoughts on halo? Are the sides that severe?

For clarification, are we talking about halodrol or halotestin?

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Mr_math
11-26-2012, 12:16 PM
For clarification, are we talking about halodrol or halotestin?

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My bad. Halotestin.

Also should have mentioned this is in terms of strength not aesthetics.

Posting in class only gets me so far :(

burlyman30
11-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Halo will get you strong, no doubt. It's stronger than var IMO, but a few degrees higher on the toxicity meter. Id use it before a meet, but in regular year-round cycling Id probably go with var instead as you can stay on it longer with relative safety.

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Freepressright
11-26-2012, 12:58 PM
All this talk of Deca and no talk of using proviron or masteron to add androgenic potency. Tsk, tsk!

burlyman30
11-26-2012, 01:13 PM
All this talk of Deca and no talk of using proviron or masteron to add androgenic potency. Tsk, tsk!

Can't imagine using those for a 16-20 week cycle. They reduce my flexibility and stiffen/dry up my joints. But that's just me. I could tolerate 8 weeks at a time.

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Cobalt
11-26-2012, 01:22 PM
All this talk of Deca and no talk of using proviron or masteron to add androgenic potency. Tsk, tsk!

I brought up Mast in a different thread, you need to play catch up fpr! :p

Speaking of Var (all your fault burly), I went ahead and grabbed a gram since my source had some available.

I've yet to run into anyone that has done this, but I didn't want to run it as a daily, consistent thing. I was considering using it as part of a pre-wo, and try to benefit from it's ability to "burn fat" and "give pumps." I quote those, because they seem to be the constant replies from those who have used it.
I used to do about 30-40mg of oral deca about 30 mins pre-wo and I would always have an insane workout. Tons of energy and strength, and I felt great. That was even when I wasn't on a cycle, and I only used it as a pre-wo.
The theory sounds kinda stupid, but it works for what I wanted.

Freepressright
11-26-2012, 01:25 PM
Can't imagine using those for a 16-20 week cycle. They reduce my flexibility and stiffen/dry up my joints. But that's just me. I could tolerate 8 weeks at a time.

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Wouldn't the joint-lubricating magic of the Deca offset any dry joints perpetuated by DHT?

DJM
11-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Wouldn't the joint-lubricating magic of the Deca offset any dry joints perpetuated by DHT?

possibly, iv read that winny plays well with deca, and mast/npp is a great combo

few guys run deca low, 200mg/wk just for that magic, and run their cycle as normal

Rodja
11-26-2012, 02:23 PM
All this talk of Deca and no talk of using proviron or masteron to add androgenic potency. Tsk, tsk!

This is very user and dose dependent. I have run 400mg of deca (along with 500mg of E) and had zero issues. You're also forgetting that one of the main reasons that deca is such a good steroid is that it isn't very androgenic while being very anabolic. If collagen rebuilding is the concern, then EQ is the better choice. If looking simply for increased lubrication in the joints via extra synovial fluid, then 200-300mg of deca would be fine.