Test Results

[silverstrand]

Here's my test result
I believe my Estrone is so high because I was using Aromasin daily about 12.5 mgs and also my DHT is from Andractim/Androhard which is probably the main reason my LH is so low.

I've dropped everything since this test. I'm thinking of taking another test in a couple weeks.
What strikes me is my Low Free T3 and Low Free Cortisol. If my body is in fact in an inflamed state, I would think focusing on healing my adrenals and thyroid would go a long way to improving my numbers.
I expected my SHBG to be high but that Estrone number is pretty wild. Also, my DHEA seems low?

All your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Total Test = 413 ng/dl (240 - 950)
Free Test = 16.86 pg/ml (4.25 - 30.37)
SHBG = 44.2 nmol/l (10 - 57)
DHEA = 3.4 ng/ml (1.8 - 12.50)
Estradiol = 13.9 pg/ml (< 39.8)
Estrone = 99 pg/ml, Above High Normal (12 - 72)
DHT = 219 ng/dl, Above High Normal (30 - 85)
BiO Avialable Test = 181 ng/dl (72 - 235)
Prolactin = 4.12 ng/ml (2.5 - 17)
Progesterone = .82 ng/ml (.28 - 1.22)
LH = 1.3 mIU/ML (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH = 2.2 mIU/ML (1.4 - 18.1)

VIT D = 34.9 ng/ml (>30 Sufficient)

Free Cortisol = .16 ug/dl (.1 - 1.2)

Total T4 = 5.2 ug/dl (4.5 - 12.5)
T3 Uptake = 27.3 % (22 - 35)
TSH = 1.716 uIU/ml (.34 - 5.6)
Free T3 = 2.1 pg/ml (2.3 - 4.2)
TBG = 14 ug/ml (13 - 39)

Cholesterol = 153 mg/dl (135 - 200)
HDL = 58 mg/dl (>40)
LDL = 88 mg/dl (<100)
VLDL = 7 mg/dl (0-40)
Trigylcerides 37 mg/dl (<150)

Total Protein 7.8 g/dl (6 - 8.3)
Albumin 5.2 g/dl (3.5 - 5.5)
Globulin 2.6 g/dl (2 - 4)
A/G Ratio 2 (1.1 - 2.5)
LDH 132 iu/l (80 - 225 )
AST (SGOT) 15 iu/l (1 - 40)
ALT (SGPT) 10 iu/l (5 - 45)
ALK.Phosphatase 62 iu/l (30 - 125)
Bilirubin Total 1.1 mg/dl (.1 - 1.4 mg/dl)
Glucose 57 mg/dl (65 - 99)
Uric Acid 7.1 mg/dl (2 - 7.2)
Calcium 10.2 mg/dl (8.3 - 10.5)
Phosphorus 3.1 mg/dl (2 - 4.9)
Chloride 101 meq/l (96 - 110)
CO2 23 meq/l (15 - 35)
Sodium 137 meq/l (135 - 155)
Potassium 4 meq/l (3.5 - 5.5)
Anion Gap 13 (0 - 25)
BUN 15 mg/dl (6 - 25)
Creatinine 1.1 mg/dl (.5 - 1.3)
Bun/Ceat. 14 (7 - 30)
Male GFR 82 (>60)

WBC 4.7 10^3/ul (4 - 11)
RBC 5.55 10^6/ul (4.4 - 5.9)
HBG 16.7 g/dl (13 - 17)
HCT 50.4 (40 -50%)
MCV 90.8 fl (82 - 97)
MCH 30.2 pg (27 - 34)
MCHC 33.2 g/dl (32 - 36)
RDW 12.6% (11.8 - 15.2)
Platelets 245 10^3/ul (150 - 400)
MPV 9.2 fl (150 - 400)
Neutrophils 44% (45 - 75)
Lymphocytes 48% (15 - 50)
Monocytes 6% (0 - 10)
Eosinophils 1% (0 - 5)
Bsophils 1% (0 -5)

I think these two were both below normal because I had fasted for a couple days prior to taking the blood tests
GLucose = 57 mg/dl - below normal 65 - 99
Neutophils% = 44 % below normal 45 - 75

[Jelisej]

It would be helpful to add reference ranges, as sometimes different have completely different ranges as they have different equipement.
I beleive there is lot more tests there, I need them as well. If you can scan results maybe would be easier otherwise you will have to to lot of typing.

[silverstrand]

It would be helpful to add reference ranges, as sometimes different have completely different ranges as they have different equipement.
I beleive there is lot more tests there, I need them as well. If you can scan results maybe would be easier otherwise you will have to to lot of typing.

Sorry about that, I just finished updating it with the reference ranges. I'm saving as I go so I dont time out.
Just finished checking - that's all of it

[Jelisej]

I've just realise you were using DHT based compounds and aromasin as well so, your sex hormones and hormones were altered
and we cant know your baseline levels, and some tests look skewed- for example free test and biovailable test
and your SHBG is still high, but could be lot higher especially as you used DHT based compound and aromasin- and they both lower SHBG

your vitamin d is low definitely, (which explaines why phosphorus in lower side)

and looks like you are indeed hypothyroid

regarding cortisol- we dont know if your transcortin is low or tot cortisol is low or both, but also your circadiam rhytm is not taken in account and time of tests so it makes it a bit inconclusive

Male GFR 82 (>60) this is percentage of with how much of its capacity kidneys are working and yours are working quite a lot, uric acid also at hiher level- not sure why is that could be heavy exercise + DHT compounds
all other figures look ok,

glucose is bit low, which can be for number of reasons- low cortisol likely candidate, signs of prediabetes etc...

low in white blood cells, that is bit worrying and it makes you more exposed to infections etc... hopefully improving lifestyle would help here

[silverstrand]

I've just realise you were using DHT based compounds and aromasin as well so, your sex hormones and hormones were altered
and we cant know your baseline levels, and some tests look skewed- for example free test and biovailable test
and your SHBG is still high, but could be lot higher especially as you used DHT based compound and aromasin- and they both lower SHBG

your vitamin d is low definitely, (which explaines why phosphorus in lower side)

and looks like you are indeed hypothyroid

regarding cortisol- we dont know if your transcortin is low or tot cortisol is low or both, but also your circadiam rhytm is not taken in account and time of tests so it makes it a bit inconclusive

Male GFR 82 (>60) this is percentage of with how much of its capacity kidneys are working and yours are working quite a lot, uric acid also at hiher level- not sure why is that could be heavy exercise + DHT compounds
all other figures look ok,

glucose is bit low, which can be for number of reasons- low cortisol likely candidate, signs of prediabetes etc...

low in white blood cells, that is bit worrying and it makes you more exposed to infections etc... hopefully improving lifestyle would help here

Thanks for the feedback! - Do you believe that within a month, I can get a more accurate base line reading? Or should I wait 2 months? How serious of a condition is that for my kidneys?

[Jelisej]

Thanks for the feedback! - Do you believe that within a month, I can get a more accurate base line reading? Or should I wait 2 months? How serious of a condition is that for my kidneys?

There probably is no condition for kidneys, its just that they work with 82% of capacity, which is relatively lot but it could also be explained by number of possible reasons, like androhard, if you had heavy exericise night before or sometimes even 2 if exercise was extreme,
I would wait at least 2 months after stopping all meds/aas/phs, generaly I always say that 3 months is time sufficient for everything to return to its baseline levels, but with what you were using 2 should suffice, tough I would maybe change some hormonal parameters, and add few more to get more comprehensive picture.

[silverstrand]

There probably is no condition for kidneys, its just that they work with 82% of capacity, which is relatively lot but it could also be explained by number of possible reasons, like androhard, if you had heavy exericise night before or sometimes even 2 if exercise was extreme,
I would wait at least 2 months after stopping all meds/aas/phs, generaly I always say that 3 months is time sufficient for everything to return to its baseline levels, but with what you were using 2 should suffice, tough I would maybe change some hormonal parameters, and add few more to get more comprehensive picture.

What hormonal parameters? I'm going to see the doc tomorrow afternoon and suggest that we do nothing until my levels can get to baseline but at least, I can ask him to include a few more items on my next test.

[Jelisej]

Thyroid:
TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOAb)
Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TgAb)

Adrenals: DHEA(s) is nice to have,
progesterone,
cortisol (free cortisol and transcortin come handy) best cortisol is saliva but I guess thats asking too much, also morning, noon evening tells its own story but probably is best to work on improving circadian rhytm if there is room for improvement

ACTH stimulation test in conjuction with cortisol practically tells yu where problem is (if there is one) so its really handy test


Sex hormones and others:
E2 is must have (other estrogens come handy)
Tot. testosterone
SHBG and albumin (with these 2 and tot test you can calculate free and bioavailable test) but if you get them for free you can add them as well)

insulin, fasting
prolactin is in line with TSH so its not must have but it comes handy
LH and FSH come handy

other stuff from last tests were good, vitamin d is must have again

[silverstrand]

Thyroid:
TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOAb)
Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TgAb)

Adrenals: DHEA(s) is nice to have,
progesterone,
cortisol (free cortisol and transcortin come handy)
ACTH stimulation test in conjuction with cortisol paractically tells yu where problem is (if there is one


Sex hormones and others:
E2 is must have (other estrogens come handy)
Tot. testosterone
SHBG and albumin (with these 2 and tot test you can calculate free and bioavailable test) but if you get them for free you can add them as well)

insulin, fasting
prolactin is in line with TSH so its not must have but it comes handy

other stuff from last tests were good, vitamin d is must have again

Ok, I'll have this noted so I can include on my next test request.
Until then, healthy living and high amounts of Omega 3 and Magnesium for sleep.

[Jelisej]

Ok, I'll have this noted so I can include on my next test request.
Until then, healthy living and high amounts of Omega 3 and Magnesium for sleep.

and taurine :)

also you may add vitamin d, 5000 IU daily or 35 000 weekly whatever suits you, and we'll see where it will get you

probiotics or kefir (or something) for intestines

try to work on circadian rhytm- going to bed at good time and waking up at good time,
proper hydration- not too little or too much (monitor colour of urine, as it can give clues)
exercise again not too little and not too much etc...

night before tests skip exercise

[silverstrand]

and taurine :)

also you may add vitamin d, 5000 IU daily or 35 000 weekly whatever suits you, and we'll see where it will get you

probiotics or kefir (or something) for intestines

:) Will do

[silverstrand]

and taurine :)

also you may add vitamin d, 5000 IU daily or 35 000 weekly whatever suits you, and we'll see where it will get you

probiotics or kefir (or something) for intestines

try to work on circadian rhytm- going to bed at good time and waking up at good time,
proper hydration- not too little or too much (monitor colour of urine, as it can give clues)
exercise again not too little and not too much etc...

night before tests skip exercise

Thanks for the added info:
I'm reducing the intensity of my workouts but hope to hit the gym a little more frequently.
I'll keep an eye on the urine color for hydration.
Great tip on exercise before tests - it wouldn't have crossed my mind. I'll make sure to not do so before my next test.

[silverstrand]

I believe I've improved my fasting blood glucose levels.
For a few weeks now, I've been periodically checking my blood glucose levels in the morning and evenings at times (a few hours after a meal), consistently resulting in a 99 mg/dl.
However, this morning, I showed a reading 79 mg/dl
A sign that my Adrenals are improving? I hope so :)

[silverstrand]

I have a suspicion that my sleep issues are related to my digestive track. I'm thinking that the lack of thyroid function doesn't provide enough power to keep food processing correctly throughout the night. I then get a cortisol/adrenaline rush which wakes me because of it, or keeps me from falling asleep. Also, Im finding my food undigested at times.
My idea on helping this out is to reduce food intake at night and also take HCL tablets with every meal.
BTW, I should have my next set of Labs late next week.
My fasting glucose is good, at 82 mg/dl upon waking.

[silverstrand]

Here's my latest labs:
There's a few items they didn't produce like Free T3 and Free T4 and some others I paid for so i'll be reaching out to them about it
From what I can tell, my main issue is with my Adrenals, they aren't pumping out any DHEA, so probably low cortisol which is also affecting my thyroid. Additionally, my SHBG is high leaving me with low free test levels.

Question to you guys - Bio Available Test and Free Testosterone - whats the main difference here? My Free test is low but my Bio is on the high side.

I'll say overall my health has improved - I'm feeling better but still tired throughout the day. Sleep is a bitch but improving somewhat. Also, my sense of reality is improving - I think few guys on here will know what I mean. Things just seem more real, beautiful, exciting.

FSH 2.3 mlU/mL
LH 2.3 lU/mL
Testosterone Total 551 ng/dl (240-950)
Testosterone Free 4.78 pg/mL (4.25-30.37)
Bioavailable Test 251 ng/dl
Estrone 47 pg/mL (12-72)
Estradiol 21.8 pg/mL
Estriol, Serum <0.1 ng/mL
SHBG 44.4 nmol/L (10-57)
DHT 121 ng/dL (30-85)

Pregnenolone 14 ng/dL (<151)
Progesterone <0.15 ng/mL
Prolactin 3.52 ng/ML (2.5-17.0)

DHEA-S 154 ug/dL (80-560)
DHEA 1.86 ng/mL (1.8-12.50)
Free Cortisol .15 ug/dL

Vitamin D Total 43.2 ng/mL (>30-100) (this surprises me because I'm taking 5000 iu daily) - thought it'd be higher

Total T4 6.6 ug/dL (4.5-12.5)
T3 Reverse 12.6 ng/dL (9.2-24.1)
T3 Uptake 28% (22-35)
T7 (FTI)(Calc.) 1.8 Index (1.0-4.4)
TSH (3rd gener.) .549 ulU/mL (.340-5.6)
Thyrogl.Auto Abs <20.0 IU/mL (<40)
TPO Antibody <10.0 IU/mL (<35)

Cholesterol 181 mg/dL (135-200)
HDL Cholesterol 74 mg/dL (>40)
LDL Cholesterol 99 mg/dL (<100)
CHOL/HDL Risk RT 2.4
VLDL 8 mg/dL (0-40)
Triglycerides 42 mg/dL (<150)

Total Protein 7.9 g/dL (6.0-8.3)
Albumin 5.2 g/dL (3.5-5.5)
Globulin (Calc.) 2.7 g/dL (2.0-4.0)
A/G Ratio (Calc.) 1.9 Ratio (1.1-2.5)
LDH 127 IU/L (80-225)
AST (SGOT) 21 IU/L (1-40)
ALT (SGPT) 19 IU/L (5-45)
ALK.Phosphate 56 IU/L (30-125)
Bilirubin Total 1 mg/dL (.1-1.4)
Glucose 80 mg/dL (65-99)
Uric Acid 4.0 mg/dL (2.0-7.2)
Calcium 10.2 mg/dL (8.3-10.5)
Phosphorus 303 mg/dL (2.0-4.9)
Chloride 104 mEq/L (96-110)
CO2 27 mEq/L (15-35)
Sodium 141 mEq/L (135-155)
Potassium 4.0 mEq/L (3.5-5.5)
Anion GAP (Calc.) 10 (0-25)
Bun 15 mg/dL (6-25)
Creatinine .9 mg/dL (.5-1.3)
Bun/Creat (Calc.) 17 Ratio (7-30)
Male GFR Calc 103 (>60)

[Cdsnuts]

Bump the vit D to 10,000 iu's for a few months. Considering just a half hour or so in the summer sun produces about 20,000, there is no way you can OD on it.

[silverstrand]

Bump the vit D to 10,000 iu's for a few months. Considering just a half hour or so in the summer sun produces about 20,000, there is no way you can OD on it.

Ok, will do!
I live in So-Cal so I make it out in the sun often; so yeah, surprised me. With winter rolling in, its even more important.

[silverstrand]

This is not a DHT problem. This is an estrogen issue. This is an educated guess as mosto things are with this shit but I know how to fix me. Jel, if you are around, I'd like to run this by you.

[Jelisej]

Free test. is a completely free and unbound testosterone, bioavailable test. is free test+ testosterone bound to albumin (which is supposed to unbound very easily so its considered as very available)

It takes while to top up vitamin d levels, if you continue with 5000 IU daily it may take you few more months to get desired level, benefit of it is thart you will know your exact requirement of vitamin d, you can increase dosage even multiply it which will bring levels up much faster, downside is it will take lot longer time to adjust dosage
Another option is to have higher dose in winter than in summer, and sun is defintely best source of vitamin d

Overall, bloodwork does show signs of improvement,
thyroid antibodies are in range so you most likely dont have any autoimune disease, which also means that you can supplement with iodine straight away and also add selenium, vitamic
you need to check ferritin levels if low than maybe some iron would help

And would suggest adding some pregnenolone, wold start with 50-100 mg (oral) and in few months see what it does

Estrogens seems ok at the moment,

[silverstrand]

Free test. is a completely free and unbound testosterone, bioavailable test. is free test+ testosterone bound to albumin (which is supposed to unbound very easily so its considered as very available)

It takes while to top up vitamin d levels, if you continue with 5000 IU daily it may take you few more months to get desired level, benefit of it is thart you will know your exact requirement of vitamin d, you can increase dosage even multiply it which will bring levels up much faster, downside is it will take lot longer time to adjust dosage
Another option is to have higher dose in winter than in summer, and sun is defintely best source of vitamin d

Overall, bloodwork does show signs of improvement,
thyroid antibodies are in range so you most likely dont have any autoimune disease, which also means that you can supplement with iodine straight away and also add selenium, vitamic
you need to check ferritin levels if low than maybe some iron would help

And would suggest adding some pregnenolone, wold start with 50-100 mg (oral) and in few months see what it does

Estrogens seems ok at the moment,

Thanks Jel,

I will up the pregnenolone as I started using 15mg topically and it has done some good mentally. I'm thinking it'd be easier to take orally if I use 50 to 100 mg.

Here are my thoughts and maybe you can tell me if I'm wrong in my thinking:

I've had a hell of a time sleeping until late last week when I added 12.5 mgs of aromasin daily. I was coming off aromasin and andractrim from my last test so i believe the increase in estrogen is coming from slowly rebuilding amounts of aromatase. I think my main issue is estrogen and that its converting all my adrenal hormones. For instance, where is all that estrogen coming from - my free test is at rock bottom. My DHEA, Pregnenolone, and Progesterone levels are also rock bottom. I get this feeling that my estrogen is eating up my DHEA and since I have so little at this time, its keeping my estrogen in check.

[Jelisej]

It is impossible to give an accurate reading and answer as your bloodworks are still influenced by andractim and probably aromasin most of your bloodworks is waste of money, really , as it takes time for hormone levels to stablise and balances itself out so your bloodwork neither shows your baseline levels nor levels when under certain amount of andractim and aromasin and God knows what.
Now, pregnenolone and DHEA reading are not accurate either, DHEA(S) gives better picture which is lowish, progesterone is low, so yeah adrenal hormone levels are low but so is everything else more-less, low or high cortisol does increase aromatisation level- everything else is speculation like "i believe the increase in estrogen is coming from slowly rebuilding amounts of aromatase"

the fact that you're still speculating and over self-medicating is worrying, for example 12.5 mg of aromasin would be sufficient for most of people on testosterone cycle, and in your case is serious overkill, 2X a week of that would be more than enough, probably 12.5 a week would suffice

[silverstrand]

It is impossible to give an accurate reading and answer as your bloodworks are still influenced by andractim and probably aromasin most of your bloodworks is waste of money, really , as it takes time for hormone levels to stablise and balances itself out so your bloodwork neither shows your baseline levels nor levels when under certain amount of andractim and aromasin and God knows what.
Now, pregnenolone and DHEA reading are not accurate either, DHEA(S) gives better picture which is lowish, progesterone is low, so yeah adrenal hormone levels are low but so is everything else more-less, low or high cortisol does increase aromatisation level- everything else is speculation like "i believe the increase in estrogen is coming from slowly rebuilding amounts of aromatase"

the fact that you're still speculating and over self-medicating is worrying, for example 12.5 mg of aromasin would be sufficient for most of people on testosterone cycle, and in your case is serious overkill, 2X a week of that would be more than enough, probably 12.5 a week would suffice

Ok, the plan now is to use 50mg of Pregnenolone daily and then use Aromasin sparingly at 12.5mg when sleep become extremely bad again but no more than 2x a week. I've only used 12.5mg daily since last Thursday. I'll do this for a few months and see how things develop.
BWT, I think it makes more sense for me to take Preg orally, my gutt seems to be reacting to it - is this to be expected? I took my first dose today and so far been feeling a lot more movement and urges (not pleasant I might add, but something I can tollerate)
Also, is it better to start with a lower dose of Preg and taper up or high amount and taper down? Will there be a huge difference going from 50 to 100 mg?
Since its Winter, I've bumped up my Vitamin D to 10,000 iu, added Brazil Nuts and Bladderwrack.
I will take some less expensive, smaller tests in the coming months and then a full blown one like before in about 3 to 4.

[silverstrand]

How do you know when you've used too much Pregnenolone? I've read, that difficulty falling asleep is a sign; however, I already have that problem so are their any other signs?

[Jelisej]

You gauge dosage of pregnenolone by progesterone blood tests, if progesterone becomes too high than its time to cut pregnenolone,
but in any case, I think its time for you too see a (professional) endo- your knowledge intis area is insufficient and its dangerous to self-medicate in way you are doing now, lack of proper sleep can be caused by a million things you cant gauge your AI, pregnenolone and other meds by sleep quality.
In any case, I wish you a best of luck!

[silverstrand]

You gauge dosage of pregnenolone by progesterone blood tests, if progesterone becomes too high than its time to cut pregnenolone,
but in any case, I think its time for you too see a (professional) endo- your knowledge intis area is insufficient and its dangerous to self-medicate in way you are doing now, lack of proper sleep can be caused by a million things you cant gauge your AI, pregnenolone and other meds by sleep quality.
In any case, I wish you a best of luck!

Hi,

Thanks Jel. I have an appointment this Friday to see an Endo. I received a referal a while back but its taken a while to finally get in the door.

[silverstrand]

Hi Jel,
Really, you knocked some sense to me! I've been suffering for over 9 years now and I'm really beat. My hands are in the air as in I know, I can't do this on my own. I'm seeing an endo this Friday. I really wish I did this sooner but it was doctors that helped put me here in the first place so I really didn't want too. I've noticed, that those who have recovered have boosted their testosterone into the 900s or better. I know there's a ton of variables but short of me totally being a fuck up in the past, do you think based on my numbers, my body is capable of that type of hormone production without HRT?
I am going to use the Preg at 50 mg, no Aromasin so that way I can guage my aromatization among other things. Take one variable at a time, i understand. Ill bring this up with the endo as well.
You really have been a huge help. Please know I did what I did because I was in extreme pain and stress.
Thank you!!

[tallstraw]

I don't believe for a second that as many as you make it seem that recover from PFS are sitting in the 900's. Not for a second.

[silverstrand]

I don't believe for a second that as many as you make it seem that recover from PFS are sitting in the 900's. Not for a second.

You are probably right.
Thanks Tall. This community has been very supportive. I am EXTREMELY appreciative of all you guys. Really, I can't express my gratitude enough!

[Jelisej]

You are probably right.
Thanks Tall. This community has been very supportive. I am EXTREMELY appreciative of all you guys. Really, I can't express my gratitude enough!

There are lot of success stories here, and their main obstacle was to stop panicking and improving lifestyle and adding supplements with help of professionals, doing various tests including blood tests and adjusting supplements/medication based on those results, biggest issue was definitelly mental downside and also medicating based on symptoms which usually does not work well,
there are lot of factors there but destiny is still mainly in your hands! Even yourself, with little bit of patience and battle plan there was improvement, if you invest more improvement will be better.
Slow and steady wind battle!

Good luck bro' !

[entropy]

I don't believe for a second that as many as you make it seem that recover from PFS are sitting in the 900's. Not for a second.

Quoted for truth. I don't think I've ever seen mine that high.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Jel,
Really, you knocked some sense to me! I've been suffering for over 9 years now and I'm really beat. My hands are in the air as in I know, I can't do this on my own. I'm seeing an endo this Friday. I really wish I did this sooner but it was doctors that helped put me here in the first place so I really didn't want too. I've noticed, that those who have recovered have boosted their testosterone into the 900s or better. I know there's a ton of variables but short of me totally being a fuck up in the past, do you think based on my numbers, my body is capable of that type of hormone production without HRT?
I am going to use the Preg at 50 mg, no Aromasin so that way I can guage my aromatization among other things. Take one variable at a time, i understand. Ill bring this up with the endo as well.
You really have been a huge help. Please know I did what I did because I was in extreme pain and stress.
Thank you!!

When in doubt, it's better to not throw more shit into the mix. You just cause more issues this way.

[silverstrand]

I don't know how you guys all feel about country music but there's a song by Lee Brice, Love Like Crazy and in it, he gives advice on how to live ones life. The one line that hits me deep is his line on "Don't out smart your common sense." I'd have to say, this has been a challenge all my life and the reason why I've been in this mess and for so long. I came here to help me progress and prevent making mistakes. I am so appreciative of being knocked over the head because at times, that is what I need to stay on track. I'm seeing this Endo tomorrow and I'm really hoping he gives me the same advice you all are. If so, I'll feel comforitable partnering with him while keeping in contact with all of you. This forum is the best place of any for second oppinions. I hope SS stays vibrant as this is too rich a community to let go.

[silverstrand]

There are lot of success stories here, and their main obstacle was to stop panicking and improving lifestyle and adding supplements with help of professionals, doing various tests including blood tests and adjusting supplements/medication based on those results, biggest issue was definitelly mental downside and also medicating based on symptoms which usually does not work well,
there are lot of factors there but destiny is still mainly in your hands! Even yourself, with little bit of patience and battle plan there was improvement, if you invest more improvement will be better.
Slow and steady wind battle!

Good luck bro' !

You are right Jel! When I stuck to the plan, I got over a 100 point jump in Total T, my BioAvail T increased and my T4 increase while TSH decreased. My body is responsing positively. I'll stick to it. In a couple months I'll know more. I am following your advice and that of others on here!

[tallstraw]

It has nothing to do with even PFS in my opinion. Seldom do I see normalized 900's..especially after a cycle..maybe pre(first) cycle bloods..afterwards nope.

[silverstrand]

It has nothing to do with even PFS in my opinion. Seldom do I see normalized 900's..especially after a cycle..maybe pre(first) cycle bloods..afterwards nope.

Ok, I just noticed a lot of guys who got better had their TT in the upper range, at or above the 900 mark. As I've ran like 4 cycles of andro hard, its probably too much to expect at this point. I'll follow the plan and take it slow. In hindsite, my cycles were haphazard and dangerous too. I took the recommend dose of 6 gel caps for 2 months max, but a few times during cycle I tried even more. The most I tried was maybe 9 in one day and only did that a couple days but saw no additional benefit so backed off rather quickly. My PCT generally lasted 8 to 10 weeks. That was way too short of a time frame and should have been double that. I wish I had found this site before running the cycles. My hope is that these compounds were more forgiving that regular AAS so as to not be too suppressive to my HPTA on the long run. BTW, that was primarily in 2013 and 2014. 2015, I ran for about 5 months andractim and aromasin. The results of that are what is reflected in my first test. My second test is 2 months afterwords free of both drugs.

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, I just noticed a lot of guys who got better had their TT in the upper range, at or above the 900 mark. As I've ran like 4 cycles of andro hard, its probably too much to expect at this point. I'll follow the plan and take it slow. I wish I had found this site before running the cycles.

Running AH just as many time as that if not a few more, I can say that it wouldn't negatively effect your T levels afterwords to the extent that your talking about. That was one of the safest Ph's out there and even after running it for 4 months straight I could have gotten away fine without a PCT.

[silverstrand]

Running AH just as many time as that if not a few more, I can say that it wouldn't negatively effect your T levels afterwords to the extent that your talking about. That was one of the safest Ph's out there and even after running it for 4 months straight I could have gotten away fine without a PCT.

Thanks CD for confirming that. Everything I've read and seen on AH was always positive with limited HPTA suppression so maybe my PCT duration was sufficient. HOWEVER, I will say on my second run, I ran PhytoTestosterone for PCT which was incredibly stupid in my case. At the time, I didn't know it was a 5alpha blocker and only found out after a month of using it. That PCT was different than the first in that I was actually worse off in general than before. My first PCT, i felt better but the second was bad. The last two, I had so so results in my general health. Overall body composition got better but I didn't feel I was progressing so i took like 6 months off. Then I did the andractim and aromasin which probably hurt me the most. To Jels point, I wish I did my bloods 6 months ago, that would have been a perfect baseline read.
What I do like is that I only burned 5 days this time doing the wrong thing and that's thanks to this community!

[entropy]

Thanks CD for confirming that. Everything I've read and seen on AH was always positive with limited HPTA suppression so maybe my PCT duration was sufficient. HOWEVER, I will say on my second run, I ran PhytoTestosterone for PCT which was incredibly stupid in my case. At the time, I didn't know it was a 5alpha blocker and only found out after a month of using it. That PCT was different than the first in that I was actually worse off in general than before. My first PCT, i felt better but the second was bad. The last two, I had so so results in my general health. Overall body composition got better but I didn't feel I was progressing so i took like 6 months off. Then I did the andractim and aromasin which probably hurt me the most. To Jels point, I wish I did my bloods 6 months ago, that would have been a perfect baseline read.
What I do like is that I only burned 5 days this time doing the wrong thing and that's thanks to this community!

Cd used phytotest I believe. Iirc he enjoyed it. Different strokes for different folks huh?

I honestly doubt dhea derivative phs can have a serious negative impact on testosterone. When Tallstraw says he's never seen decent levels after cycles, I think he means proper 12-16 weeks completely shut down on proper aas like test and deca. Ad far as I'm aware with my experiences with dhea derivatives like 4-dhea, epiandro etc i was barely shutdown.

[tallstraw]

^thats exactly what I mean. My bad, I'm forgetting the context of this thread. Yeah when someone is actually cycling, I don't see 900 bloods after a cycle. That's exactly what I meant. AH I can't see really negatively affecting bloods, except high long term dosing and even that I'd put at minimal. Since o remember right they did long term dosing of actual dht(proviron) at 100mg a day for a period of time and showed very little to no negative impact on serum testosterone. This is from memory though, let me try to find the study.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic o... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2892728/)

[silverstrand]

^thats exactly what I mean. My bad, I'm forgetting the context of this thread. Yeah when someone is actually cycling, I don't see 900 bloods after a cycle. That's exactly what I meant. AH I can't see really negatively affecting bloods, except high long term dosing and even that I'd put at minimal. Since o remember right they did long term dosing of actual dht(proviron) at 100mg a day for a period of time and showed very little to no negative impact on serum testosterone. This is from memory though, let me try to find the study.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic o... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2892728/)

Thanks Tallstraw! I found similar studies and based my use of Andractim off of them thinking I would get only minimal suppression or none at all. But Jel is once again correct, at least in my case as I can tell from my labs that it did suppress my LH to below normal levels. My LH never got to zero but down to about 1.3 and that was with my DHT levels at almost 3 times above the high range. 2 months later it was about to 2.3 and my DHT was still above range. I remember reading that oral proviron will enter the blood at 3 to 4% so on that basis, I was in line or slightly below that amount most of the time for about 5 months. Only other issue is I used aromasin as well. My estrogen got low but never to the point where my joints ached. I still don't know what that feels like really.
I'm not sure if that can be considered sufficient suppression leading to lasting impairment of test levels?
I'm just glad I stopped and followed everyones advice - got labs and let some time pass. Now the only thing I'm on is Pregnenolone 50 mg. The past few days, I have been feeling real good on it.

[Brazilianguy]

Thanks Tallstraw! I found similar studies and based my use of Andractim off of them thinking I would get only minimal suppression or none at all. But Jel is once again correct, at least in my case as I can tell from my labs that it did suppress my LH to below normal levels. My LH never got to zero but down to about 1.3 and that was with my DHT levels at almost 3 times above the high range. 2 months later it was about to 2.3 and my DHT was still above range. I remember reading that oral proviron will enter the blood at 3 to 4% so on that basis, I was in line or slightly below that amount most of the time for about 5 months. Only other issue is I used aromasin as well. My estrogen got low but never to the point where my joints ached. I still don't know what that feels like really.
I'm not sure if that can be considered sufficient suppression leading to lasting impairment of test levels?
I'm just glad I stopped and followed everyones advice - got labs and let some time pass. Now the only thing I'm on is Pregnenolone 50 mg. The past few days, I have been feeling real good on it.

I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.

[silverstrand]

So the Endo turned out to be worthless.
She looked at my first set of labs and said everything looked fine, - no wait, her exact words were "your numbers look good" - WTF!
We proceeded onto the next set of labs and said that these are better; "you shouldn't have a problem." No mention that my SHBG is high for my test, that my Progesterone is non-existant, DHEA-S is low, my free test is rock bottom and my thyroids are low. She asked if I have seen a psychiatrist for my insomnia. Plus she said NOT to take Pregnenolone. No way lady, I'll take Jel's word over yours any day! Since taking Preg, mentally, I've been feeling pretty good, plus I can shit like a normal person. She also told me NOT to take any iodine suppliments, that our western diets have more than enough and selenium is of little to no benefit.
I'm sure there are great docs out there; but, trouble is in finding them.

[silverstrand]

I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.

From what I can tell dude, is there's a protocol to all this stuff which starts by getting labs drug free to get stable blood levels while maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Then over the course of several months adding items in and monitoring progress. I feel its a top to bottom approach. Estrogen and DHT are at the bottom, so probably the last things to mess with.
My plan is set for the next couple months while I seek out an endo who "gets it"

[Cdsnuts]

From what I can tell dude, is there's a protocol to all this stuff which starts by getting labs drug free to get stable blood levels while maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Then over the course of several months adding items in and monitoring progress. I feel its a top to bottom approach. Estrogen and DHT are at the bottom, so probably the last things to mess with.
My plan is set for the next couple months while I seek out an endo who "gets it"

I hate to break it to you bro, but if there was an endo that "got it" there would be no such thing as guys suffering with PFS. The problem is, they don't get it. The reason they don't get it is because it's not a straight out problem of looking at labs and fixing the numbers. I thought you knew that after spending any amount of time on PH. What ever Propecia does, it's not something that can be fixed by throwing a bunch of pharmaceuticals at it. Even the endo's that are in the know concerning the issue, don't know how to fix it because it doesn't respond like a regular guy with low T responds. This is unfortunately PFS 101.

IMO, you're just prolonging the suffering by playing around the way you are. There is a reason my stance on the subject is the way it is. I don't know why you're trying to re-invent the wheel. You know what you need to do. There are posts after posts after posts of guys who are and were trying to fix themselves the way your are, and it NEVER gets them where they need to go. You're not going to force your body into doing anything. The writing is on the wall. You need to just sack up and do what works. It's almost like you've never even been to the PH website and you're coming here forgetting what you're actually dealing with.

This is an "out of the box" issue and you're not going to fix it by searching for inside the box answers. Maybe you need to go back to that site an re-read all of the things that didn't work. Or....and here's a novel idea....follow one of the few recovery stories there and COPY IT. PICK ONE, and stick to it......FOR A YEAR. Then re-evaluate. You're just spinning your wheels other wise and you're doing it right in front of all of us to see. I don't think you realize that though.

[entropy]

I got joint pain When I took too much tamoxifen.

Now I'm taking clomid, 12.5mg, first pill was good, more energy, less brain fog, balls got bigger, after 5 days I decided to take more 12.5mg, this time I got more tired, more muscle wastage, less strenght. Maybe I decrease too much E.

What I can tell you is that after getting too low E with tamoxifen, I got an estrogen rebound that made me worse.

This is complete fucking bullshit. You didn't notice more "muscle wastage" in a matter of days cause you took slightly more clomid. I can see you losing definition, smoothing over due to water retention etc, losing fullness maybe but there's no just no way you've had muscle wastage in that time period.

Also serms don't lower your estrogen at all.

You guys just don't get it anyway. Dunno why I bother getting frustrated with ya

[entropy]

So the Endo turned out to be worthless.
She looked at my first set of labs and said everything looked fine, - no wait, her exact words were "your numbers look good" - WTF!
We proceeded onto the next set of labs and said that these are better; "you shouldn't have a problem." No mention that my SHBG is high for my test, that my Progesterone is non-existant, DHEA-S is low, my free test is rock bottom and my thyroids are low. She asked if I have seen a psychiatrist for my insomnia. Plus she said NOT to take Pregnenolone. No way lady, I'll take Jel's word over yours any day! Since taking Preg, mentally, I've been feeling pretty good, plus I can shit like a normal person. She also told me NOT to take any iodine suppliments, that our western diets have more than enough and selenium is of little to no benefit.
I'm sure there are great docs out there; but, trouble is in finding them.

Guys. Please. Stop relying on meds to fix a problem caused by meds, even if it is possible to stabilise your endocrine system you're still just putting gas in a leaky tank.
You need to give your body the raw materials it needs to fix itself. Lots of sleep, good food, smart exercise, actually living your life and not obsessing over what this fucking drug did to you because it's just pumping you full of stress hormones and messing with the balance.

You don't magically pick the combination of drugs and get "cured". Thats not how this works. You get livable, then you slowly but surely get better, you stop thinking about it as much and all of a sudden you'll be minding your own business when you realise... You've felt normal for months.

[tallstraw]

I feel like you guys need to atleast understand the hormones, or the hormone modulators in their own form, and what they do..before you start throwing them in your bodies..or having a very slight base knowledge and just going off of what Jel tells you. Jel is smart as fuck and has forgotten more than I know, but you can't just take what someone says as the gospel. I feel like if you all understood these things more, you'd understand why a lot of what you try doesn't work.

[silverstrand]

I feel like you guys need to atleast understand the hormones, or the hormone modulators in their own form, and what they do..before you start throwing them in your bodies..or having a very slight base knowledge and just going off of what Jel tells you. Jel is smart as fuck and has forgotten more than I know, but you can't just take what someone says as the gospel. I feel like if you all understood these things more, you'd understand why a lot of what you try doesn't work.

What I will say is Jel is smarter than the Endo I just saw and in all honesty, I believe it should be people like Jel or others like him who totally understand hormones that should be practicing docs. Imagine how much misery could be avoided by having competent docs available.

[Cdsnuts]

What I will say is Jel is smarter than the Endo I just saw and in all honesty, I believe it should be people like Jel or others like him who totally understand hormones that should be practicing docs. Imagine how much misery could be avoided by having competent docs available.
Or avoiding them completely. .... like it or not, docs Prescribing meds for people are one of the biggest causes of that misery in the first place.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

[silverstrand]

Or avoiding them completely. .... like it or not, docs Prescribing meds for people are one of the biggest causes of that misery in the first place.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

YES!!!
I believe its because the Pharmaceutical Industry hijacked the educational system. Plus there's incentives for Docs to not cure but treat patients. So little is invested in investigating the cause and instead, treating symptoms.
It would naturally correct itself but for government mandates.
There's so many pitfalls for people to lose their health, wealth, and happiness in this society. Its sad.

[English]

Fuck me silverstrand. When are you going to realise that you need to look at what worked with guys like CD, me, entropy, mitch, chi........ I don't ever remember a recovery story involving a shed load of chemicals.

You do not need an endo or - brilliant as he is - Jel - You need a spiritual awakening my friend, you need to believe in your own bodies ability to repair itself with proper nutrition, exercise and mindset. I've read about tens of people, male and female with thyroid issues that cured themselves with a mixture of lifestyle and mental changes. Yes you might need some thyroxin or whatever it is on a temporary basis, but you must wean yourself off prescription drugs, and your body will recover provided you point it in the right direction with your mind.

Also, amazed to see Brazillian guy on clomid etc. I know he has been on the right path in the past.

What is it with you guys? You see what people who recover do, you start doing it for a period of time that is always too short, and then turn to chemicals.

You need to believe in nothing but a very healthy lifestyle and a very positive and happy mental approach for at least 24 months. If you genuinely follow the path of CD, entropy, me, mitch, chi ........... for that period of time, and you maintain a daily positive mental attitude, laughing etc. you will see massive gains to full recovery in that time.

[Cdsnuts]

I see this phenomenon over and over again with these guys. They just DON'T do it consistently for a long enough period of time. It's the same thing, guy after guy after guy. They don't recover in a month or two so they scrap the whole thing and just start throwing chemicals at it. It doesn't help that they are on bodybuilding forums reading what other guys are doing who maybe share their symptoms....the BIG difference is that those other guys don't have PFS. What works for them isn't going to work for the PFS guys. If it did, there wouldn't be such a thing as PFS!!

The other thing is they don't really buy into the whole mindset thing......AT ALL. I know alot of guys just think that is the biggest crop of bullshit going. The sad thing is, IT'S NOT, as you know, I know, and most of the successfully recovered people know. If they could just get their brain on board, the body would follow. It really doesn't have a choice.

[English]

I see this phenomenon over and over again with these guys. They just DON'T do it consistently for a long enough period of time. It's the same thing, guy after guy after guy. They don't recover in a month or two so they scrap the whole thing and just start throwing chemicals at it. It doesn't help that they are on bodybuilding forums reading what other guys are doing who maybe share their symptoms....the BIG difference is that those other guys don't have PFS. What works for them isn't going to work for the PFS guys. If it did, there wouldn't be such a thing as PFS!!

The other thing is they don't really buy into the whole mindset thing......AT ALL. I know alot of guys just think that is the biggest crop of bullshit going. The sad thing is, IT'S NOT, as you know, I know, and most of the successfully recovered people know. If they could just get their brain on board, the body would follow. It really doesn't have a choice.

Yeah i know, it drives me crazy too and is the main reason why i come onto these boards, get driven crazy and disappear for months. These idiots come from PH to here saying they want to listen, like our posts and say all the right things, and then chuck a load of chemicals down their throats. Anyway, i only came back yesterday to check my recovery post is getting some PH air time. I really am going for good now as i really don't this is an effective use of my time to be flogging a dead horse, after all you, i and a number of others have explained in great detail how we recovered multiple times, at some point it has to be the responsibility of the guy himself to actually follow through.

I was hoping we could raise the stats from maybe one in 50 or whatever it is recovering to something much better, but it appears to me that maybe there are only one in 50 guys capable of following through with the plan. It's not even that fucking hard!!

So i'm off mate (doesn't help that the fucking login button doesn't work!!), but you and i have unfinished business away from all this anyhow, so i'll be seeing you bud, and thank you once again (don't think i'll ever be able to stop thanking you!!!!)

[English]

Was just reading a private message before logging off for the final time, and it was nice to find a message from one of the guys that are maybe the one in 50. I've had maybe 10 of these types of messages over the last 12 months, but literally hundreds from idiots, not just from this forum, but from PH who think chemicals are the answer after giving up (after about 2 months) the healthy mind and body route advocated by pretty much everyone who recovers permanently, so i figure it is kinda nice to sign off by reposting this guys message to me - sanitized of ID. If any of you massive fucking morons (49 out of 50 of the PH type crew) come across this message (which is from one of the guys who was suffering just like you) then maybe it might just turn one of you into a recoverer. Note the reference to "mind". Also note that i also pasted my reply as you might find it helpful, and don't think for a minute i have posted this out of vanity as i am just a screen name and have only been an on off internet presence, and am going for good now to get on with my life.

This guy is on the way, not there yet, but he has the momentum and understands he needs to keep going with the common sense route of CDNUTS, Chi, entropy, myself, bizzbee333, mitch.............

"I wanted to tell you that after 18 months of suffering and reading PH I found your history and It changed my mind. In just two months I am MUCH better, sometimes almost recovered (I still have some bad days), but the best thing is that I have no doubt I will be fine quite soon without taking anything.

I do not know you but I will always remenber you.

Thanks buddy.[/QUOTE]

Hi .....,

Great to speak to the one in 50! It means alot to hear from you and others like you (there are not many hence the one in 50 line)

it's important now that you keep bettering your plan, keep improving your life and removing yourself from pfs chatter. sometimes you can be doing the plan for months without any improvement at all, and then - bam! - you suddenly go up a level, and that is because a whole set of genes upregulates and you get more of the old you back, eventually you realise you are fully recovered, but keep doing the plan for years and create distance. Leave these forums now, there is nothing wrong with you.
Oh, and use this line in your head which i borrowed from CD "You need to stick to your plan most when you've seen no improvement for a long time - stick to the plan like a fucking mule"

Now go and achieve something great in your life, and when you feel truly recovered, try to help others for a while, then leave for good. It's important to give back and create a virtuous circle, but recover fully first my friend.

cheers Dude

[silverstrand]

Dam guys. Blew up my thread while I was away. :) English, my numbers now look very similar to yours back in January of this year I think. I've read through your SHBG thread several times and it's really striking how similar our situations are as well as many others. I believe our bodies responded in a very common fashion, CD included.
I'll sit down an read through the posts in just a few minutes. Soon, I'll be posting my recent labs.
My main question right now is what is the ideal Ferritin range?
Mine is 129 (28 - 365) ng/ml

[silverstrand]

You need to believe in nothing but a very healthy lifestyle and a very positive and happy mental approach for at least 24 months. If you genuinely follow the path of CD, entropy, me, mitch, chi ........... for that period of time, and you maintain a daily positive mental attitude, laughing etc. you will see massive gains to full recovery in that time.

Very true English. Btw, this past week has been very pivotal. The amount of stress has dropped tremendously as I can see the end in sight finally. The biggest thing driving my sense of urgency was the pain and torture of not being able to sleep. After a few days of not falling asleep for even one minute, you'll try absolutely ANYTHING to make the pain stop. This is the most dangerous part of the whole process I think because real damage can be done. I've got it under control now. You are right, right, right, that once you truly believe healing is possible, the stress drops and healing takes place.

[silverstrand]

I see this phenomenon over and over again with these guys. They just DON'T do it consistently for a long enough period of time. It's the same thing, guy after guy after guy. They don't recover in a month or two so they scrap the whole thing and just start throwing chemicals at it. It doesn't help that they are on bodybuilding forums reading what other guys are doing who maybe share their symptoms....the BIG difference is that those other guys don't have PFS. What works for them isn't going to work for the PFS guys. If it did, there wouldn't be such a thing as PFS!!

The other thing is they don't really buy into the whole mindset thing......AT ALL. I know alot of guys just think that is the biggest crop of bullshit going. The sad thing is, IT'S NOT, as you know, I know, and most of the successfully recovered people know. If they could just get their brain on board, the body would follow. It really doesn't have a choice.

Very true. It's absolutely the toughest thing to do. For starters, your brain isn't functioning correctly to begin with and then there's this belief in the back of your mind that you'll never get better, that life is just fucked. But it's not. It's extremely hard BELIEVE in healing. You can tell yourself a million times but unless you believe it, the mind will know the difference. I'd say it wasn't until these last lab results, which weren't great, that I truly believed in healing. Btw, I've had a plan now and don't see any reason in changing it. I'll be tweaking it here and there but nothing drastic. I'll be updating my thread with lab numbers over the next several months.

[silverstrand]

Yeah i know, it drives me crazy too and is the main reason why i come onto these boards, get driven crazy and disappear for months. These idiots come from PH to here saying they want to listen, like our posts and say all the right things, and then chuck a load of chemicals down their throats. Anyway, i only came back yesterday to check my recovery post is getting some PH air time. I really am going for good now as i really don't this is an effective use of my time to be flogging a dead horse, after all you, i and a number of others have explained in great detail how we recovered multiple times, at some point it has to be the responsibility of the guy himself to actually follow through.

I was hoping we could raise the stats from maybe one in 50 or whatever it is recovering to something much better, but it appears to me that maybe there are only one in 50 guys capable of following through with the plan. It's not even that fucking hard!!

So i'm off mate (doesn't help that the fucking login button doesn't work!!), but you and i have unfinished business away from all this anyhow, so i'll be seeing you bud, and thank you once again (don't think i'll ever be able to stop thanking you!!!!)

Hey English,
Not sure why you'd want to dump SS now that you are healed. You could use a different user name or something. But, once healed, I see this community as a GREAT resource for optimizing ones life. There's several ideas and products suggested here in SS that I will want to try going forward, primarily to optimize my quality of life.
You do not need to comment on PFS but I'd encourage you to stay.

- - - Updated - - -

WE DO NEED THE LOGIN FIXED!!

[Cdsnuts]

Very true. It's absolutely the toughest thing to do. For starters, your brain isn't functioning correctly to begin with and then there's this belief in the back of your mind that you'll never get better, that life is just fucked. But it's not. It's extremely hard BELIEVE in healing. You can tell yourself a million times but unless you believe it, the mind will know the difference. I'd say it wasn't until these last lab results, which weren't great, that I truly believed in healing. Btw, I've had a plan now and don't see any reason in changing it. I'll be tweaking it here and there but nothing drastic. I'll be updating my thread with lab numbers over the next several months.

FYI...I never got labs done once while I was going through this. Not once. Now I know because of the type of board this is some guys will think that's crazy. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what your labs say. I can't tell you how many PFS guys had half way decent labs and were still not functioning correctly. So unless you want to know the numbers just for shit's and giggles, I suggest you just stop bothering with them and get yourself on a plan and STICK TO IT for at least a year. Stop testing, stop trying to tweak. You're just driving yourself nuts. These regimens are set up so that it doesn't matter what your labs say. What your doing isn't going to harm you at all. Just the opposite. It's just going to keep pushing you in the right direction.

So, again...pick a regimen and just stay the course. Get all you need to do it and just DO IT. Live your life and stop stressing over it. It will work if you give it a chance to work.

[5 alpha victim]

English why leave again ? There are people who use your experiences and knowledge to their advantage. If you don't want to answer a question just ignore it.

Personally I'm on point right now and was at my best at the tail end of my PCT coming out of my first DHT prohormone cycle a few months ago. Then I made the stupid call to work 40 hours overtime for a couple of months to pay off some debt. The 80 hour work weeks killed my recovery protocol. Sleep and diet got messed up as did training.

I'm getting back on point now though and can already feel the difference. My opinion as it pertains to my case is that if you are lacking DHT in certain places DHT prohormones can help. In my case it really did help but only with everything else in check.. Diet, sleep stress levels ect ect .. I got to experience how important it is to need to have everything else in check in order for a DHT prohormone to work as I attempted to go for another run more recently and did not have the same results. Not even close.

I am however out of debt and have a down payment for a house which is unrelated but good news!

Anyways I'm back to eating good , rotating 7 diff Natty T boosters, sleeping nine hours a night and training and already feel better. I will get back on point and in another 6 months consider doing another run of Andro 300 only after correcting my work induced relapse. I still have some small adjustments to make on my diet but I'm by no means eating unhealthy.

I am not trying to tell anyone that the DHT prohormones are needed.. I'm simply just saying that in my case a few months ago it turned my recovery up a few levels only after everything else was consistently on point and I could really feel the difference. I felt at my very best at the end/finishing the PCT to the point where I actually thought I may be out of this...but yea I got caught up with making money and getting lazy from feeling almost normal.

This has made me completely understand how important it is to be consistent as I have been consistent for a while now and felt the difference. I could also feel my self going backwards during my relapse. So I completely understand what you guys are saying. Not recovered yet but count me in as being one of the few who gets it.

Silver if you can just get off of everything you are taking. Jump on rotating natty T boosters for that extra little kick and leave it at that as far as what you take. It's true Labs mean nothing. When I was feeling pretty much recovered like I mentioned already I ran some labs and my total T was in the low 400's.. But yet I felt WAY better than I have felt with T readings in the high 900's .

But anyway I learned a lot from this website. Hope to see you guys around

Cheers

[Brazilianguy]

Fuck me silverstrand. When are you going to realise that you need to look at what worked with guys like CD, me, entropy, mitch, chi........ I don't ever remember a recovery story involving a shed load of chemicals.

You do not need an endo or - brilliant as he is - Jel - You need a spiritual awakening my friend, you need to believe in your own bodies ability to repair itself with proper nutrition, exercise and mindset. I've read about tens of people, male and female with thyroid issues that cured themselves with a mixture of lifestyle and mental changes. Yes you might need some thyroxin or whatever it is on a temporary basis, but you must wean yourself off prescription drugs, and your body will recover provided you point it in the right direction with your mind.

Also, amazed to see Brazillian guy on clomid etc. I know he has been on the right path in the past.

What is it with you guys? You see what people who recover do, you start doing it for a period of time that is always too short, and then turn to chemicals.

You need to believe in nothing but a very healthy lifestyle and a very positive and happy mental approach for at least 24 months. If you genuinely follow the path of CD, entropy, me, mitch, chi ........... for that period of time, and you maintain a daily positive mental attitude, laughing etc. you will see massive gains to full recovery in that time.



You're totally right English. The best protocol for me so far was gym, diet (less carbs but still eating them), Brazil nuts and tribulus. When I cycled the tribulus, surprisingly I got 75% recovered for 2 months, during these 2 months I hang out with a lot of girls, my friends even said, calm down or you will get an STD. The problem after that was that I wanted to get even better, like 100% again, and I decided to try progesterone cream because I saw some guys getting great results from it.

Progesterone cream made me crash hard, also, I know some guys will disagree, weed made me crash hard and gave me gynecomastia.

My experience with tamoxifen was interesting, because the first 3 days on 20mg made me feel 40% recovered, then I took 10mg with tribulus everyday and got 50% recovered, was feeling really good until I started to notice some joint pain, and before the pain I took 0.5mg of Adex just to prevent any increase of E. Man this made me get an estrogen rebound so strong that my nipples started to burn and I was hanging out with a girl, I was getting good and bad very fast, like moody, some times happy. I could achieve 5 erections with her, but the day after I crashed.

Clomid gave me bigger balls, and 30% better, but I think my body was already saturated from serms because I was taking E3D and sometimes it was too much for me (even 12.5mg) and I was getting tired and my dick was shrinking. So I decided to stop, will wait the medicine get out of my body and then cycle tribulus.


My friend is getting good experience with sustain alpha, but sometimes he thinks he takes too much, like his emotions disappear, like he feels a lack of dopamine, so music start to not sound so great, orgasm gets a little bit worse.



CD, I'd like to ask you a question if it doesn't mind you. Do you think the most beneficial and faster recovery came after androhard? I mean, not by androhard itself, but if I'm not wrong, you took it for 6 weeks, and then PCT, when you started the pct, did you notice sustain alpha working better? Also the same with the herbs? I'm asking it because you got 6 weeks without using it and it's time enough to leave your system, so would give better results. Also that's what I feel with tribulus, and my friend said he felt the same with sustain alpha.

Also when you were on PCT would you apply sustain alpha exactly like it is said to apply or you took less, because I read that you said that sustain alpha would obliterate your E, and my friend is getting the same thing, he asked me to ask you because he doesn't have a profile here.


Thank you.

[silverstrand]

You're totally right English. The best protocol for me so far was gym, diet (less carbs but still eating them), Brazil nuts and tribulus. When I cycled the tribulus, surprisingly I got 75% recovered for 2 months, during these 2 months I hang out with a lot of girls, my friends even said, calm down or you will get an STD. The problem after that was that I wanted to get even better, like 100% again, and I decided to try progesterone cream because I saw some guys getting great results from it.

Progesterone cream made me crash hard, also, I know some guys will disagree, weed made me crash hard and gave me gynecomastia.

My experience with tamoxifen was interesting, because the first 3 days on 20mg made me feel 40% recovered, then I took 10mg with tribulus everyday and got 50% recovered, was feeling really good until I started to notice some joint pain, and before the pain I took 0.5mg of Adex just to prevent any increase of E. Man this made me get an estrogen rebound so strong that my nipples started to burn and I was hanging out with a girl, I was getting good and bad very fast, like moody, some times happy. I could achieve 5 erections with her, but the day after I crashed.

Clomid gave me bigger balls, and 30% better, but I think my body was already saturated from serms because I was taking E3D and sometimes it was too much for me (even 12.5mg) and I was getting tired and my dick was shrinking. So I decided to stop, will wait the medicine get out of my body and then cycle tribulus.


My friend is getting good experience with sustain alpha, but sometimes he thinks he takes too much, like his emotions disappear, like he feels a lack of dopamine, so music start to not sound so great, orgasm gets a little bit worse.



CD, I'd like to ask you a question if it doesn't mind you. Do you think the most beneficial and faster recovery came after androhard? I mean, not by androhard itself, but if I'm not wrong, you took it for 6 weeks, and then PCT, when you started the pct, did you notice sustain alpha working better? Also the same with the herbs? I'm asking it because you got 6 weeks without using it and it's time enough to leave your system, so would give better results. Also that's what I feel with tribulus, and my friend said he felt the same with sustain alpha.

Also when you were on PCT would you apply sustain alpha exactly like it is said to apply or you took less, because I read that you said that sustain alpha would obliterate your E, and my friend is getting the same thing, he asked me to ask you because he doesn't have a profile here.


Thank you.

CD is a responder to Resveratrol. I've tried it before and I dont believe I'm as sensative to it as he. English also said, he felt it didn't do much for him. Its all dependant on the individual.

[silverstrand]

As of 11/5/2015

Total T4 5.9 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Fee T3 2.93 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
Ferritin 129 (28-365) ng/ml
Vit D (25-OH) 41.9 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 3.1 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 4.2 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .45 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol 40.5 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 56 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 49.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 572 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 3.87 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 118 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.45 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

Jel, anyone, whats the ideal Ferritin level - there's mixed info on the web?
Also, estrogen and shbg are killing my test levels plus taxing my adrenals. I'll be working on this.

[silverstrand]

FYI...I never got labs done once while I was going through this. Not once. Now I know because of the type of board this is some guys will think that's crazy. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what your labs say. I can't tell you how many PFS guys had half way decent labs and were still not functioning correctly. So unless you want to know the numbers just for shit's and giggles, I suggest you just stop bothering with them and get yourself on a plan and STICK TO IT for at least a year. Stop testing, stop trying to tweak. You're just driving yourself nuts. These regimens are set up so that it doesn't matter what your labs say. What your doing isn't going to harm you at all. Just the opposite. It's just going to keep pushing you in the right direction.

So, again...pick a regimen and just stay the course. Get all you need to do it and just DO IT. Live your life and stop stressing over it. It will work if you give it a chance to work.

Hi CD,

I'm going by symptoms as you did; plus, I'd like to confirm things with labs. This way, I consistently stay on course and can identify any issues if they come up. Its more of a reassurance. I dont want to waiste any more of my life on this so I'm taking it slow and doing things right.
I'm sticking to my plan! 1 Year dude, I believe this will be all over in 1 year :)
Thanks!!!

[silverstrand]

__________________________________________________ _____________________
As of 10/7/2015

FSH 2.3 mlU/mL
LH 2.3 lU/mL
Testosterone Total 551 ng/dl (240-950)
Testosterone Free 4.78 pg/mL (4.25-30.37)
Bioavailable Test 251 ng/dl
Estrone 47 pg/mL (12-72)
Estradiol 21.8 pg/mL
Estriol, Serum <0.1 ng/mL
SHBG 44.4 nmol/L (10-57)
DHT 121 ng/dL (30-85)

Pregnenolone 14 ng/dL (<151)
Progesterone <0.15 ng/mL
Prolactin 3.52 ng/ML (2.5-17.0)

DHEA-S 154 ug/dL (80-560)
DHEA 1.86 ng/mL (1.8-12.50)
Free Cortisol .15 ug/dL

Vitamin D Total 43.2 ng/mL (>30-100) (this surprises me because I'm taking 5000 iu daily) - thought it'd be higher

Total T4 6.6 ug/dL (4.5-12.5)
T3 Reverse 12.6 ng/dL (9.2-24.1)
T3 Uptake 28% (22-35)
T7 (FTI)(Calc.) 1.8 Index (1.0-4.4)
TSH (3rd gener.) .549 ulU/mL (.340-5.6)
Thyrogl.Auto Abs <20.0 IU/mL (<40)
TPO Antibody <10.0 IU/mL (<35)

__________________________________________________ ______________________
As of 11/5/2015

Total T4 5.9 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Fee T3 2.93 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
Ferritin 129 (28-365) ng/ml
Vit D (25-OH) 41.9 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 3.1 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 4.2 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .45 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol 40.5 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 56 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 49.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 572 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 3.87 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 118 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.45 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

Jel, anyone, whats the ideal Ferritin level - there's mixed info on the web?
Also, estrogen and shbg are killing my test levels plus taxing my adrenals. I'll be working on this.

12/02/2015

TSH 1.071 (.340-5.6) uIU/mL
Total T4 6.8 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Free T4 1.2 (.8-1.9) ng/dL
Fee T3 3.28 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
Ferritin 161 (28-365) ng/ml
Vit D (25-OH) 48.3 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 4.0 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 5.7 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .25 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol 40.0 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 78 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 46.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 691 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 5.91 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 178 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.56 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

Fuck me, my estrogen is stubborn!

[tallstraw]

Nothing to worry about in my opinion. You've increased your test by 20% and estrogen ha stayed the same. Seems like good bloods to me.

[Cdsnuts]

Your E needs to come down a bit

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

[silverstrand]

Your E needs to come down a bit

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

Yes, need to bring my E down to reduce SHBG - I still have rock bottom free test. Overall, I am improving, I hope this continues!

- - - Updated - - -


Nothing to worry about in my opinion. You've increased your test by 20% and estrogen ha stayed the same. Seems like good bloods to me.

I still have rock bottom free test levels and all my symptoms still persist. I've been seeing improvements overall and I am happy to see a 20% bump for sure!

[silverstrand]

I'm going to include Estrone-Sulfate in my next labs; sometime early January

[silverstrand]

Dude! I think I stumbled upon the reason for PFS - how and why it continues to persist. Not entirely sure on how to correct it other than doing what I'm doing. It is refreshing to know. On top of taxing all hormone processes throughout the body, we have indeed created an environment that suppresses 5ar on an ongoing basis. This is not a genetic mutation at all. Its a desensitization and recalibration forced on the body over many months. The body naturally suppresses 5ar through estrogen formations. My body currently is on hyperdrive in creating estrogen. Slowing this cycle down seems to be the only logical approach. CD, you did this both by use of DHT prohormone and resveratrol. I'd have to say RES was likely a bigger contributor to your recovery than the DHT prohormone but who cares really in your case because you are healed. I believe Estrone is more of the culprit than commonly tested Estrodial.
I will continue on course. I realize now why all my other attempts have failed and why currently, I'm getting the best results so far. I will continue to update.

[Cdsnuts]

Dude! I think I stumbled upon the reason for PFS - how and why it continues to persist. Not entirely sure on how to correct it other than doing what I'm doing. It is refreshing to know. On top of taxing all hormone processes throughout the body, we have indeed created an environment that suppresses 5ar on an ongoing basis. This is not a genetic mutation at all. Its a desensitization and recalibration forced on the body over many months. The body naturally suppresses 5ar through estrogen formations. My body currently is on hyperdrive in creating estrogen. Slowing this cycle down seems to be the only logical approach. CD, you did this both by use of DHT prohormone and resveratrol. I'd have to say RES was likely a bigger contributor to your recovery than the DHT prohormone but who cares really in your case because you are healed. I believe Estrone is more of the culprit than commonly tested Estrodial.
I will continue on course. I realize now why all my other attempts have failed and why currently, I'm getting the best results so far. I will continue to update.

It was more then that, but I see what you're trying to say. EVERYTHING I did was to boost Test/Dht/5ar and lower/flush estrogens from the system, from diet, to exercise, to supplements....continually, non-stop over many months and years. As I've always said, the cycle's were only part of it.

And...not to rain on your parade, but it's common knowledge that PFS guys are estrogen dominant and they have low 5ar.

[5 alpha victim]

Consistently nudging these things back in line seems to be the only way. That concept has stuck with me the most.

Silver , how's your sugar intake ? Do you eat a lot of sugar ? The less I eat the better I feel.
I was focusing on gluten and eating organic meat, veggies and fruit for a long time. Avoiding the sugar seems to give me the most noticeable results diet wise

Was interesting to see English make it a point to mention avoiding sugar . Other "pfs guys" recently have made the same connection with sugar and how they feel.

[silverstrand]

Consistently nudging these things back in line seems to be the only way. That concept has stuck with me the most.

Silver , how's your sugar intake ? Do you eat a lot of sugar ? The less I eat the better I feel.
I was focusing on gluten and eating organic meat, veggies and fruit for a long time. Avoiding the sugar seems to give me the most noticeable results diet wise

Was interesting to see English make it a point to mention avoiding sugar . Other "pfs guys" recently have made the same connection with sugar and how they feel.

For me, I haven't noticed too much of a sugar connection. However, I do intend to eliminate it from my diet even further. My sugar intake is relatively low, at least processed sugars. Sugars from fruits is another story; I tend to enjoy a lot of fruits.

[silverstrand]

Some bad news. I've been a victim of the Aliso Canyon Gas Leak. My sleep has been terrible the past several months even though my hormone test numbers have been improving. Its Fucking unbelievable that here I am eating clean, being as healthy as possible but all the while being poised by this shit. I've recently relocated to Ventura and finally things are improving. I had no idea what was wrong. If any of you are in the LA area, take a look to see what proximity you are to this gas geyser. Its toxic! Burning eyes, chest pains, insomnia, shortness of breath, tightness of the neck and throat, head aches, lethargy, nose bleeds, etc... and that's only the short term effects! Some of this stuff says in your system forever! I'm so pissed - with everything I've been going through... to dealing with this. Hopefully, now I will be in better health soon. I hope to sue this fucks.

[silverstrand]

12/02/2015


Quote Originally Posted by silverstrand View Post

__________________________________________________ _____________________
As of 10/7/2015

FSH 2.3 mlU/mL
LH 2.3 lU/mL
Testosterone Total 551 ng/dl (240-950)
Testosterone Free 4.78 pg/mL (4.25-30.37)
Bioavailable Test 251 ng/dl
Estrone 47 pg/mL (12-72)
Estradiol 21.8 pg/mL
Estriol, Serum <0.1 ng/mL
SHBG 44.4 nmol/L (10-57)
DHT 121 ng/dL (30-85)

Pregnenolone 14 ng/dL (<151)
Progesterone <0.15 ng/mL
Prolactin 3.52 ng/ML (2.5-17.0)

DHEA-S 154 ug/dL (80-560)
DHEA 1.86 ng/mL (1.8-12.50)
Free Cortisol .15 ug/dL

Vitamin D Total 43.2 ng/mL (>30-100) (this surprises me because I'm taking 5000 iu daily) - thought it'd be higher

Total T4 6.6 ug/dL (4.5-12.5)
T3 Reverse 12.6 ng/dL (9.2-24.1)
T3 Uptake 28% (22-35)
T7 (FTI)(Calc.) 1.8 Index (1.0-4.4)
TSH (3rd gener.) .549 ulU/mL (.340-5.6)
Thyrogl.Auto Abs <20.0 IU/mL (<40)
TPO Antibody <10.0 IU/mL (<35)

__________________________________________________ ______________________
As of 11/5/2015

Total T4 5.9 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Fee T3 2.93 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
Ferritin 129 (28-365) ng/ml
Vit D (25-OH) 41.9 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 3.1 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 4.2 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .45 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol 40.5 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 56 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 49.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 572 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 3.87 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 118 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.45 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

Jel, anyone, whats the ideal Ferritin level - there's mixed info on the web?
Also, estrogen and shbg are killing my test levels plus taxing my adrenals. I'll be working on this.

__________________________________________________ _____________________
12/02/2015

TSH 1.071 (.340-5.6) uIU/mL
Total T4 6.8 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Free T4 1.2 (.8-1.9) ng/dL
Fee T3 3.28 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
Ferritin 161 (28-365) ng/ml
Vit D (25-OH) 48.3 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 4.0 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 5.7 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .25 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol 40.0 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 78 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 46.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 691 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 5.91 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 178 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.56 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

Fuck me, my estrogen is stubborn!


12/29/2015

TSH .011 (.340-5.6) uIU/mL
Total T4 9.1 (4.5-12.5) ug/dl
Free T4 1.9 (.8-1.9) ng/dL
Fee T3 5.06 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
T7 (FTI)(Calc) 3.1 (1-4.4 Index)
T3 Uptake 34.3 (22-35%)
Vit D (25-OH) 55.1 (>30 -100) ng/ml

FSH 8.5 (1.4-18.1) miu/ml
LH 19.5 (1.5-9.3) miu/ml
Progesterone .25 (.28-1.22) ng/ml

Estradiol <11.8 (<39.8) pg/ml
Estrone 53 (12-72) pg/ml
SHBG 65.2 (10-57) nmol/l
Total Testosterone 849 (240-950) ng/dl
Free Testosterone 11.90 (4.25-30.37) pg/dl

DHEA-S 179 (80-560) ug/dl
DHEA 2.98 (1.8-12.5) ng/ml

IGF-1 155 (115-307) ng/ml
HDL 54 (>40 mg/dl)
LDL 73 (<100 mg/dl)

Notes: Finally controlling estrogen to some extent. Its surprising because my SHBG went up. I still have too much conversion to Estrone; however, I'm backing off now on Estrogen control because Estrodial is low and my LH is way too high. I'm also reducing Thyroid support - TSH is low and T3 is high. I will tapper down slowly and follow with tests.
Some positives is finally my Free Test broke its strangle hold even with SHBG rising.

[Jelisej]

Ferritin should be in upper half, but not over the top- I think 2/3 of range is good enough would not go over that level (except for some TRT guys).
Your estradiol is good in latest blood test, SHBG is a bugger but not too many successful stories there except for TRT.
Thyroid is sluggish, it seems that brain is not detecting low levels for some reason,
upp your pregnenolone doseage,
you can increase your vitamin d as well,
not sure why you're still taking DHT supplements?

[English]

It was more then that, but I see what you're trying to say. EVERYTHING I did was to boost Test/Dht/5ar and lower/flush estrogens from the system, from diet, to exercise, to supplements....continually, non-stop over many months and years. As I've always said, the cycle's were only part of it.

And...not to rain on your parade, but it's common knowledge that PFS guys are estrogen dominant and they have low 5ar.


Not me though, and i saw a few others like me too. I struggled to raise my E numbers although i suffered the same symptoms as anyone. My last bloods (just about 6 weeks ago i think) revealed T over 800 (can't recall free T but it was right at the top of the range) yet E was low end normal. And just to pour some more confusion on it, i saw plenty of guys blood results with normal and even quite high DHT numbers - made no difference, they still suffered. For me, i believe it's a sensitivity issue. When a person is frightened, stressed, hopeless for a period of time, genes downgrade and the body or brain produces proteins that block out normal androgen response. The exact same symptoms are seen in anyone in the middle of a nervous breakdown, and viewing the condition in this way is extremely helpful to the persons chances of recovery for obvious reasons.

[English]

For me, I haven't noticed too much of a sugar connection. However, I do intend to eliminate it from my diet even further. My sugar intake is relatively low, at least processed sugars. Sugars from fruits is another story; I tend to enjoy a lot of fruits.

It's a no brainer to remove all processed sugar from diet, and if you've not noticed a sugar connection, it is probably because you still take a "relatively" low amount of processed sugar. You have to stop completely. It's ridiculous to be doing a hundred other things, taking supplements and even pro hormones and/or chemicals to alter other blood result items while still eating processed sugar- makes no sense to me. I hit the recovery path 100%, no stone unturned, in particular the mental side of things and recovery came relatively fast. In the opening weeks of my recovery plan, i occasionally has some sugar or did some other thing wrong, and each time, i berated myself for it and it put me back. I quickly realised this was not helpful, and within weeks i got on it 100% which allowed me to be mentally strong knowing each day i had done everything in my power....