Gyno Removal/Reversal

[Grape Ape]

I've had gyno for 2 years or so now. Small lumps behind my nipples. They fluctuate from the size of a nickle to smaller than a dime, depe.ding on what I take or how I am dieting. I can say they are usually smaller when on an AI for sure. If I squeeze them hard enough a little lactation happens, but this would have to be some hard squeezing. They are not sensitive and don't bother me too much. Feel/fear their may be some prolactin issues because of the gyno.

Are there any decent protocols out there for reducing or eliminating gyno? I know some suggest Letro. Or is this a see a doctor/get surgery only situation. I'd like to try something before hitting the doc.

Anyone?

[Jelisej]

I would say that you definitely have prolactin issues- so you need to check why is that- (pituary adenoma, hypothyroidism or lifestyle, stress etc). Also estrogen levels influence gyno as well. Other thing is- sometimes people became to aware of gyno- so they think that they have gyno even when they dont, I mean there are some glands or whatever they are called under nipples so you'll always have something to squeeze.
For gyno itself- when they become fibrous its quite hard to get rid of them, and sometimes only surgical removal can sort them out, otherwise my opinion is that DHT is best option for treating gyno.

[Grape Ape]

I know for sure this is gyno. It was caused by one of the tren products back in 2010.

J, what DHT products would you recommend and for how long?

[burlyman30]

I would look at either raloxifene or high dose androhard/stanodrol/proviron.

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[Grape Ape]

Just started reading your gyno thread at PP, Burly.

Any recomended dosages?

[USN HM 350Z]

I have nickles sized lumps. As soon as I get home I will be doing a 30 day course of AH/Stano/Letro/100mg raloxifene. I will let you know how that works and maybe it will help you. if it doesn't at least shrink them a little I am going to the plastic surgeon and getting them removed and a little sculpting done at the same time lol

[Grape Ape]

Keep me updated. I'm going to set up a plan starting January/February. Think the prolactin issue may be what is effecting my erection quality. Libido is there though.

When do you get home?

[burlyman30]

Just started reading your gyno thread at PP, Burly.

Any recomended dosages?

Ralox at 120/wk and if running solo kickstart for 1-2 wks at 240.

Androhard at 2000mg ed split into 2-3 doses or proviron for 200-250.

Be prepared to run either for 12+ weeks. It takes time.

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[h2s]

I have successfully used a combination of Ralox and Letro. I had a very aggressive bump that had grown, and it took care of it.

Infamy once had told me I was probably paranoid about my gyno, as if he said "if you have gyno, you know you do, because it is painful." It wasn't until "this time" getting gyno that I saw just how right he was. Insanely painful and sensitive to the touch, sometimes painful without even touching it.

Now it is down to a tiny little bump that almost feels like the standard gland size, no pain, no sensitivity, etc..

[USN HM 350Z]

should be back before the 1st and will start on the first and run through the end of Dec, if working I will continue using for 12 weeks. I will have to sub out the AH for E spray at some point though as I only have a limited supply of AH.

[Grape Ape]

HTS,

It was way painful 2 years ago. I know for 100% fact that it is gyno. There is zero doubt in my mind. It is sensetive if I push on it hard, bit not what it was in the beginning. It has also been to the point where it is a small pea sized lump, but the lactation was still there. It is about the size of a nickel n the left, and the size of a dime on the right.

[DJM]

letro 1.25 eod
ralox 60mg ed
i wouldnt bother with the proviron/hard ect unless you have already

being 2yrs id be worried, thats a while to have it lingering around......you said it diminishes when you use an ai, but what else are you using? i get lots of pms about gyno and guy like to treat it while cycling which i find isnt the best course.....the letro/ralox combo will work most of the time if done soon enough and properly

[Grape Ape]

I am not currently on anything, and haven't really cycled in exactly a year(unless you count 4 weeks of dermacrine/stano). I feel awesome, and better than I have in a long time. Natty gains in both size ans strength are there, no lethargy, my sleep is better etc. The gyno doesn't really bother me, as it isn't noticeable but to me, and only sensitive of squeezed.

The only issue is that my erection quality isnt great. I'm horny like I should be, get morning wood and can get it up, but it just isn't strong/full strength.

At first I thought I might need to run a longer pct of clomid, but I think it may more be the prolactin issue from the gyno.

Atleast I'd like to eliminate it from the equation first, and the evaluate wether to jump on the extended Clomid run.


Otherwise I feel great.

And I appreciate the help guys.

[DJM]

I am not currently on anything, and haven't really cycled in exactly a year(unless you count 4 weeks of dermacrine/stano). I feel awesome, and better than I have in a long time. Natty gains in both size ans strength are there, no lethargy, my sleep is better etc. The gyno doesn't really bother me, as it isn't noticeable but to me, and only sensitive of squeezed.

The only issue is that my erection quality isnt great. I'm horny like I should be, get morning wood and can get it up, but it just isn't strong/full strength.

At first I thought I might need to run a longer pct of clomid, but I think it may more be the prolactin issue from the gyno.

Atleast I'd like to eliminate it from the equation first, and the evaluate wether to jump on the extended Clomid run.


Otherwise I feel great.

And I appreciate the help guys.

blood test dude

[Grape Ape]

Yeah, I know. Gotta just do it, but boy do I suffer chronic procrastination. I'll get a check up with a doc in the coming weeks.

Any other advice?

[DJM]

Yeah, I know. Gotta just do it, but boy do I suffer chronic procrastination. I'll get a check up with a doc in the coming weeks.

Any other advice?

two yrs, cant solve it, id say bloods is the only advice

[Jelisej]

If your prolactin is high refractory time (the recovery phase after sex) will be very long- for days in which you'll be mostly disinterested for sex. I had prolactin somewhere 2-3X over limit but had no lactation- refractory time was like a week, I had no lactation (I did not try to squeeze my nipples tough). People with pituary adenoma usually have prolactin 100X over but no lactation.
In any case- I would check it out, as DJM said- bloodwork.
But mind you- prolactin is very reactive hormone- just queing in shop can raise it over limit, so choose day when you are not really stressed out, and be as relaxed as possible when waiting for blood to be drawn.
As for nipples, I agree with HTS/Infamy when you have gyno- you know you have it. And another thing is that in some folks gland under the nipples are like radar- they can register E2, prolactin and even testosterone raise in few cases, best is to have it checked by doctor.

[Grape Ape]

So hypothetically(until I get blood work) because I don't have such a long refractory period it may not be too high prolactin?

[Jelisej]

So hypothetically(until I get blood work) because I don't have such a long refractory period it may not be too high prolactin?

Yes, thats the thing that confuses me, as prolactin does big time affect refractory period (and desiree to have sex). Could be that your prolactin is bit elevated but you have a decent free testosterone, and your gland under nipple is over-sensitive or who knows, but in my opinion lactation is something that probably has a different origin and not prolactin (altough that was first thing in my mind).
You erection quality is probably affected by too high E2 which also irritates your gland under nipple, balancing out your hormones should sort things out.

[burlyman30]

It is my understanding that prolactin can't be too high in the absence of estrogen, so control estrogen and control prolactin by default. It is possible that your body is ultra sensitive to prolactin even if it is within "normal" ranges.

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[Grape Ape]

I can take an AI to control estrogen and see how I feel, but wouldn't that just be a bandaid on the problem, and my estrogen go right back up after discontinuation?

Thought about taking some L-dopa to see if that relieved the issue, then giving me an idea if it is prolactin.

What is used to permanently balance back out hormones?

Blood work to come, but I may not be able to get some till early February. I will shoot for sooner though.

[burlyman30]

I can take an AI to control estrogen and see how I feel, but wouldn't that just be a bandaid on the problem, and my estrogen go right back up after discontinuation?

Thought about taking some L-dopa to see if that relieved the issue, then giving me an idea if it is prolactin.

What is used to permanently balance back out hormones?

Blood work to come, but I may not be able to get some till early February. I will shoot for sooner though.

There has been some research done on Letrozole that indicated it could help "reset" the body's hormones. I believe that research was done on hypogonadal males and 6 months later their levels were still normalized. However, this research was looking at testosterone levels specifically. I don't remember specifically if it also reset estrogen levels, but I believe it must have to enact the results that it did.

[Jelisej]

It is my understanding that prolactin can't be too high in the absence of estrogen, so control estrogen and control prolactin by default. It is possible that your body is ultra sensitive to prolactin even if it is within "normal" ranges.

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I dont think that is correct; E2 can contribute in raising prolactin, for example high E2 makes thyroid hormones ineffective (thats why women need higher thyroid hormone levels than men) so that can cause elevated prolactin.
Stress can shoot up prolactin- it can raise it multiple times over reference range, or small tumors on pituary- so called pituary adenomas (its estimated that 20-25% people have them), and obviously hypothyroidism can cause elevated prolactin levels.

Grape Ape- IMO, dont do any supplements that have any effect on hormones, just sort out your sleep and lifestyle- so in february you get correct bloodworks- and then you'll be able to deal with problem more effectively, otherwise you may end up "chasing your own tail"- and this happens very often.
On other hand- it is no harm if you try to estimate your endocrine system by observing your symptoms- for example if your E2 is in right spot you'll have good morning erections, aka "morning wood". Measuring your basal body temperature will tell you story of your thyroid etc...

[Grape Ape]

That is the idea. I ran some sustain alpha in august, and that has been it. Didn't do much for me, but give a good sense of wellbeing. I figured 60-90 days Clomid might sort me out. Maybe start at 25mg and drop to 12mg and cruise from there. I had really good erections before my cycle on erase, 12mg Clomid and fadogia agretis, before my last cycle last year and erection quality was low before then too. This was research Clomid so it may not have been legit. Pharma grade from here on out. If I didn't cycle, I don't know if the effects would have stayed.

My main worry is that the gyno may be keeping me from recovering. I've read that prolactin can induce hypogandism.

Bloodworm will tell all, just waiting on some insurance issues first and then I'll be G2G.

[AestheticOne]

Ralox at 120/wk and if running solo kickstart for 1-2 wks at 240.

Androhard at 2000mg ed split into 2-3 doses or proviron for 200-250.

Be prepared to run either for 12+ weeks. It takes time.

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Burly, dont want to discredit ur advice in the least because i assume your speaking from personal experience, however when i asked Eric awhile back regarding the best dosage to run AH for gyno removal he stated the 6 caps a day solo would yield better results then an overdosed cycle of AH, the reasons he gave were rather technical and i think i have the emails somewhere but basically it boiled down too much of a good thing can become a bad thing, and that the AH would be worse at reducing gyno at that dose as opposed to the recommended 6 caps a day because that dosage is closest to the 200mg of injectable DHT used in the studies. Thoughts on this?

Edit : found the email
"I wouldn't do 9 per day. This could cause issues with an over abundance of adiol, which can act directly on the ER as an agonist. 6 is closest to the clinical dose used in the studies to reverse gyno. You have to make the anti-gyno the primary goal instead of muscle growth in this case." - Eric

[burlyman30]

I haven't seen this caveat play out in real world settings. Eric is a smart guy, and a friend, actually. I certainly can't stand toe to toe with him on scientific knowledge, but not all of his theories play out in the real world.

Is their a dosage point where what he talked about would come true? Maybe. I have yet to see or hear of the commonly used doses turn the hormonal tide in that way though.

If you find any evidence that it does, definitely come back to this thread with that information.

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[AestheticOne]

I haven't seen this caveat play out in real world settings. Eric is a smart guy, and a friend, actually. I certainly can't stand toe to toe with him on scientific knowledge, but not all of his theories play out in the real world.

Is their a dosage point where what he talked about would come true? Maybe. I have yet to see or hear of the commonly used doses turn the hormonal tide in that way though.

If you find any evidence that it does, definitely come back to this thread with that information.

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no evidence on my end, i just thought it was interesting that you, and many others, have good experiences with high doses of DHT precursors or synthetic DHT in gyno reversal. Personally i think Eric was just erring on the side of caution with this recommendation

[USN HM 350Z]

So, I am 10 days into my Ralox/Letro and my gyno has already shrunk to almost nothing. I actually have to feel hard to find the little bit that is in there now. I am doing 50mg Ralox ed and 1.250 letro eod. I am going to continue on this for 2 months while I am running 500mg Test to avoid other issues.

[Coolazice]

So, I am 10 days into my Ralox/Letro and my gyno has already shrunk to almost nothing. I actually have to feel hard to find the little bit that is in there now. I am doing 50mg Ralox ed and 1.250 letro eod. I am going to continue on this for 2 months while I am running 500mg Test to avoid other issues.

ID?

[USN HM 350Z]

what is ID?

[nate3993]

iron dragon chems

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i win ;)

[Coolazice]

iron dragon chems

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i win ;)

What Nate said.

Yeah, Nate won. But being 'quicker' isn't always a good thing. ;)

[nate3993]

only reason i said i win was cuz burly posted the same thing seconds after after me, bt then i guess he deleted his post?

[USN HM 350Z]

nope, GWP

[Coolazice]

only reason i said i win was cuz burly posted the same thing seconds after after me, bt then i guess he deleted his post?

I saw that. Perhaps I should have added a "lol" after that so it was more obvious that I was kidding.

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nope, GWP

Interesting. Thank you!

[nate3993]

I saw that. Perhaps I should have added a "lol" after that so it was more obvious that I was kidding.

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Interesting. Thank you!
hahaha. dude, obviously you were kidding. i was just letting people know why i posted the i win or else it just looks kind of stupid since u can't see burly's post.

[h2s]

nope, GWP

I used them as well. Letro/Ralox is it. If you have gyno, get letro and get ralox. There are soo many damn protocols of take this, then take that, then do this, then stand on your head, etc... Letro/Ralox consistently reports good results. The only thing I would get fancy with is I do like the idea of a DHT hormone, Hard/Stano/etc.. to run for a bit afterwards. And letro is a whore, so have so aromasin to ease yourself off it.

[pman42]

what would easing into aromasin look like? taper down the letro first, or just go straight into aromasin?

[h2s]

Honestly, I don't even remember my specific protocol, just kinda took it, and slowly started lowering dosage/frequency. Started two days before discontinuing letro.

[BBG]

what would easing into aromasin look like? taper down the letro first, or just go straight into aromasin?

I would stop the letro and on that day, start the aromasin. If you were hitting 2.5mg of letro, start with 25mg of aromasin. After a week or so (or whenever you feel ready) you can start tapering down the aromasin.

[h2s]

I would stop the letro and on that day, start the aromasin. If you were hitting 2.5mg of letro, start with 25mg of aromasin. After a week or so (or whenever you feel ready) you can start tapering down the aromasin.

I tapered the Letro into it, so it wasn't going from 2.5mg of letro right to aromasin.

[reeviint]

Estrogen levels influence gyno as well. Other thing is- sometimes people became to aware of gyno.So they think that they have gyno even when they don't,I mean there are some glands or whatever they are called under nipples so you'll always have something to squeeze.

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