PDA

View Full Version : Need help overcoming hopefully my final stages of PFS



Atticas
04-03-2016, 12:06 PM
My search for recovery has finally lead me here, to you all. This forum looks encouraging, intellectual, and full of motivation... far from what I found when I first seeked help. I first ended up on some random google searches, then propeciahelp.com - which was just full of despair and negativity - then I found solvepfs.com which helped me get on track concerning probiotics and eating right, and now finally I am here.

(I'm just going to cover pretty much everything in this first post so that you guys won't have to ask me a myriad of questions about my situation. Sorry if it's long)

I'm calling out all you experienced, knowledgeable blokes. Help me finally kill off this stupid curse that's been holding me back for nearly a year and a half now. I was 23 when I took it and now I'm 25 still fighting the same fight. My side-effects to this day are shrinking genitals, aginig skin (aging faster than normal - from 23 to 25 I have grown almost full nasolabial folds and lost tons of fat under my eyes to the point where you can see veins), loose skin, random bouts of insomnia, and stubborn fat around my gut. Curiously enough, I never suffered from ED and my libido hardly dropped if at all. In 2015, I suffered from my worst bouts of depression and thought about suicide for months, but I fought and fought against it because I knew there was still hope somewhere. That hope led me to get through those thoughts and now I am incredibly determined to put an end to this.

I eating gluten-free, dairy-free; I have taken probiotics for about 5 months now (currently using VSL#3); I workout regularly again (and am gaining back muscle lost by the initial stages of PFS); I try and get 7 hours of sleep a day although alot of the time I end up waking up before I can make it that long ( this is a problem because alot of the time, once I'm awake, i'm pretty much just awake and won't fall back asleep); I eat spinach, kale, kombucha, and sauerkraut about everyday; And lastly, I meditate pretty often to try and bring down cortisol.

My work is stressful by nature; I work in phone sales. I figure this may play a role in not allowing my body to fully fight cortisol as well as it could.

Regardless of these sides and the length of time I've suffered from them, I truly believe I can recover from this and I hope you guys will help me out simply out of kindness and your willingness to help others grow into positive giants like yourselves. So SS, please help and guide me. I want to stand on the other side of this disease with you, cdnuts, Chi, entrophy, Brainfogboy, and everyone else who has recovered from this.

Atticas
04-03-2016, 01:36 PM
I've been reading a bit in this forum today:

Saw Palmetto and Fenugreek...im in trouble! (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/supplements/2607-saw-palmetto-fenugreek-im-trouble.html)

It seemed a bit all over the place... a couple of guys threw out some ideas... then Cdsnuts came in and gave a huge outline of all the test boosting supplements he takes now. To be honest, i'm not too sure where to start at this point.

It seems like Tongkat and Tribulus get thrown around a lot whenever I hear about supplements guys take to recover from PFS. Hell, if it helps, I could buy every single ingredient Cdsnuts mentioned..

I know for sure I want to buy some Creatine HCL to help aid in boosting DHT again... I've already got and been taking fish oils... and I will likely go out and buy a B complex and Magnesium Complex.



Looking at Cdsnuts old response to how he healed from PFS... I've done a small water fast before and have also tried the paleo diet for a span of time, just didn't keep with it because I didn't feel it was necessary to stay on it for life. Do I need to go back and do those things over now or can I just begin supplementing, and continuing with my workouts and meditation?

Can someone basically just condense these random thoughts and suggestions into one routine? I'm ready and very willing to do this.

Cdsnuts
04-03-2016, 02:23 PM
I've been reading a bit in this forum today:

Saw Palmetto and Fenugreek...im in trouble! (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/supplements/2607-saw-palmetto-fenugreek-im-trouble.html)

It seemed a bit all over the place... a couple of guys threw out some ideas... then Cdsnuts came in and gave a huge outline of all the test boosting supplements he takes now. To be honest, i'm not too sure where to start at this point.

It seems like Tongkat and Tribulus get thrown around a lot whenever I hear about supplements guys take to recover from PFS. Hell, if it helps, I could buy every single ingredient Cdsnuts mentioned..

I know for sure I want to buy some Creatine HCL to help aid in boosting DHT again... I've already got and been taking fish oils... and I will likely go out and buy a B complex and Magnesium Complex.



Looking at Cdsnuts old response to how he healed from PFS... I've done a small water fast before and have also tried the paleo diet for a span of time, just didn't keep with it because I didn't feel it was necessary to stay on it for life. Do I need to go back and do those things over now or can I just begin supplementing, and continuing with my workouts and meditation?

Can someone basically just condense these random thoughts and suggestions into one routine? I'm ready and very willing to do this.

You say you're ready to do this yet in the same breath you say.... " I've done a small water fast before and have also tried the paleo diet for a span of time, just didn't keep with it because I didn't feel it was necessary to stay on it for life."

There are reasons why certain things are recommended. it's not just by chance, or just because. When you say you've "tried" the Paleo diet....what does that mean? How long is "tried?" You don't try it.....you do it. And yes, you may not need to stay on it for life, but i'm guessing the amount of time you did it was not nearly long enough let alone worrying about staying on it for a lifetime.

Have you read my recovery post? It's all condensed down to the basic moving parts. Everything you need is in that post.

Tell me what you don't understand about that post and I'll see if I can help you. Before I do that, you need to tell me what you've been doing in the mean time?

You also need to stock up on at least 7 of these herbs. More is better, but seven is a start.

CD's Natural Testosterone boosting regimen (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/supplements/2912-cds-natural-testosterone-boosting-regimen.html)

Now....back to the beginning of this post. You said YOU didn't feel it was necessary to stay on the Paleo diet. Is there anything else you don't feel is necessary? I'm asking, because you are here clearly asking for help. Because of this, is it safe to say that what you feel or don't feel is necessary may be off a bit? If you're going to make any head way you have to suspend that way of thinking. You can't just pick and choose what parts of the program you want to do and what parts you don't. It's all, or nothing. I'm not going to waste my time if that's not understood from the start.

I've helped so many people that started off strong, and then a month or two in they decide they don't want to do one or two things that are necessary to be done. They end up not getting the results they should and they complain that the regimen didn't work. Bullshit.....THEY didn't work. Again, there is a reason why things are the way they are. If this is a problem for you, then you should just do what YOU feel is necessary.

****And please....for the love of god, change your avatar.

Atticas
04-03-2016, 02:42 PM
Have you read my recovery post? It's all condensed down to the basic moving parts. Everything you need is in that post.



Yea, that's what I was referring to when I said your "old response" to how you healed from PFS. This one, right?




I'm not going to go into all of the things I tried that had minimal results. I'm just going to give you the meat of it.

Fast. Just once, for two weeks or more if you can.

If you can't fast for any reason then do a juicefeast. Home - Juice FeastingJuice Feasting | 4 Quarts a Day to Health: Cleanse, Rebuild, Rehydrate, Alkalize for a month or more. No need to do the whole 90 day program unless you care to.

You need to cleanse before you start anything. It will make your body so much more receptive to positive change.

Diet and lifestyle are absolute cornerstones in recovery.

Eat a paleo type diet and carb back load at night depending on your exercise regimine. Carb backloading is fantastic for manipulating hormones. If you're not sure what it is, google it.

Avoid gluten......this one food is so problematic I can't begin to go into it.

Lift heavy weights three times per week, but don't overdue it if your really in the shitter.....

Do HIIT once per week at first, then go to twice per week. I did sprints.

Cycle testosterone boosting supplements as outlined at Boost Your Low Testosterone! Increase Low T Levels Naturally . As a matter of fact, most of what I did to recover can be found in one place at this site. He also goes into carb back loading.

****I also did several cycles of a DHT compound from primordial performance which helped in increasing the active enzymes that were wiped out by propecia. Unfortunately they have been shutdown by the FDA. There are other DHT based steroids that you could use, but I am not familiar with any others then androhard from primordial. Don't just jump into using these products unless you do your research. You don't want to end up worse then you are now. I had access to the producer of these drugs and he spent alot of time going back and forth with me on the science of how they work to increase active 5arII. It's a can of worms I'm not going to get into but didn't want to fail to mention it as I attribute the use of androhard and successful post cycle therapies to my overall recovery.

Meditate. You have to quiet your mind. You have to stop focusing on your problems. Focus on anything other then what is wrong with you. If you need to, stop coming to this site and reading the horror stories. You understand what happened to you, now move on. This one thing will set you in the right direction and make a HUGE improvement in your life. This will also help with sleep.

Take: B complex. Magnesium complex (the kind you dissolve in water works best) Fish oils. Take everyday at first, then go to every couple of days.

Stay hydrated.

Avoid intoxicants of any kind. You will be able to indulge again one day, just not today.

All of these things done consistently over TIME will yield you results. It can't not work. You just have to be diligent. How much do you want it?

Atticas
04-03-2016, 03:15 PM
Alright, so I'll buy 7 of those immediately as well as some Creatine HCL.

To be more clear, I only did a water fast for 1 day, and a paleo diet for about a week, based off of the advice of others on other forums. I saw your old post about a year ago or so on propeciahelp.com and wasn't sure if that was your most updated routine or even one you considered fairly valid anymore, so I never really followed it and wanted to hear it from the lion's mouth so to speak. I'm fine with going back on it if you say I should. Like I said, I'm here for help and I will comply.

So based off of another thread you posted in, someone asked you what 5 test boosters you would choose from the 20 if you could only take 5, and you said: Pine Pollen, Tongkat, Ant, Cistanche and He Shou Wu. I'll go ahead and purchase those and two others.

As for a B complex and Magnesium Complex, can I just run by Vitamin Shoppe and grab something for that, or are there outlets you'd rather prefer me buy from online?

Atticas
04-03-2016, 03:26 PM
To let you know what I have been doing cd:

> Meditating near everyday for about 2 months (fairly new to it)
> Working out using Layne Norton's PHAT routine
> Bulk Diet
> Trying to get adequate sleep
> Taking probiotics
> Eating sauerkraut, kombucha, kale and spinach about everyday.
> TRYING to eat gluten-free, dairy-free everyday, although sometimes I accidentally slip up

And that pretty much sums it up.
I recently also found out I'm allergic to almonds, which sucked to hear because I had been eating these protein almond bar things for monthssssss up until recently... so hopefully now my body should be working in full gear without any food allergies holding me back.

My diet now basically consists of this everyday:
> 2 Hamburgers
> 6 eggs
> 1 Bag of cut up chicken
> Bowl of Salad (kale, spinach, peanuts, avacado, tomatos)
> Kombucha
> Protein Bar
> Banana
> Cup of Rice
> Coconut Milk

Cdsnuts
04-03-2016, 04:16 PM
Alright, so I'll buy 7 of those immediately as well as some Creatine HCL.

To be more clear, I only did a water fast for 1 day, and a paleo diet for about a week, based off of the advice of others on other forums. I saw your old post about a year ago or so on propeciahelp.com and wasn't sure if that was your most updated routine or even one you considered fairly valid anymore, so I never really followed it and wanted to hear it from the lion's mouth so to speak. I'm fine with going back on it if you say I should. Like I said, I'm here for help and I will comply.

So based off of another thread you posted in, someone asked you what 5 test boosters you would choose from the 20 if you could only take 5, and you said: Pine Pollen, Tongkat, Ant, Cistanche and He Shou Wu. I'll go ahead and purchase those and two others.

As for a B complex and Magnesium Complex, can I just run by Vitamin Shoppe and grab something for that, or are there outlets you'd rather prefer me buy from online?

The routine stands. Everything in that outline is EXACTLY what you need to start doing. Now given that you know the information is correct, do you have any specific questions?

Atticas
04-03-2016, 04:21 PM
The routine stands. Everything in that outline is EXACTLY what you need to start doing. Now given that you know the information is correct, do you have any specific questions?

Cool. Ok, the specific questions are:

1. Is there any set time I need to stay on Paleo, or just until I start feeling better?
2. How many grams of carbs should I shoot to stay under on Paleo?
3. Is there any specific B complex and Magnesium Complex you'd recommend?

Cdsnuts
04-03-2016, 05:17 PM
Cool. Ok, the specific questions are:

1. Is there any set time I need to stay on Paleo, or just until I start feeling better?
For the next 6 months
2. How many grams of carbs should I shoot to stay under on Paleor
Don't worry about that for now. Just follow the guidelines for the Paleo diet.
3. Is there any specific B complex and Magnesium Complex you'd recommend?
No for B vitamins. For Magnesium, there is product called Naturally calm that I found works wonders

You need to cleanse as well. Fasting for one day, well, the fact that you told me that you did a short water fast and this is what it was, has me second guessing this whole thing. C'mon man.....really? You didn't water fast at all. You just didn't eat that day. And Paleo for a week? Again...these aren't timelines that are going to give you any results at all. But you already know that.

Before doing any of this, you need to do a short juice feast of a week. A week is not a long time for something like this. I've personally done 45 days...and that was half of a 90 day program. I digress.....I find that MOST people that can stay the course for the week on juice usually will be very successful at getting themselves fixed up. Not just because they did the week on juice, but because they have what it takes to do what is necessary....mentally.

Also, don't TRY to be gluten free. BE gluten free. Is there any reason why you have an aversion to the Paleo diet?

Atticas
04-03-2016, 05:32 PM
No for B vitamins. For Magnesium, there is product called Naturally calm that I found works wonders

You need to cleanse as well. Fasting for one day, well, the fact that you told me that you did a short water fast and this is what it was, has me second guessing this whole thing. C'mon man.....really? You didn't water fast at all. You just didn't eat that day. And Paleo for a week? Again...these aren't timelines that are going to give you any results at all. But you already know that.

Before doing any of this, you need to do a short juice feast of a week. A week is not a long time for something like this. I've personally done 45 days...and that was half of a 90 day program. I digress.....I find that MOST people that can stay the course for the week on juice usually will be very successful at getting themselves fixed up. Not just because they did the week on juice, but because they have what it takes to do what is necessary....mentally.

Also, don't TRY to be gluten free. BE gluten free. Is there any reason why you have an aversion to the Paleo diet?

I mean, I thought it was mostly just a fad diet for one.... but I think the main thing that discouraged me from continuing the paleo diet is the fact that the guy who was instructing me through it was telling me I needed to eat under like 30-50 grams of carbohydrates... which when you're trying to gain weight can make your diet INCREDIBLY difficult. I have a saved excel sheet i use to try and keep track of my diet, and it was so damn hard trying to figure out how to get my diet up to 3,300-3,600 calories while ALSO not exceeding 45-50 grams of fiber while also not exceeding 30-50 grams of carbs.

And nooooooooooo, don't get me wrong man... I AM gluten-free. I have a huge intolerance to it. All I mean is, there's times where I've accidentally slipped up and ate something which had gluten that I thought was gluten-free (Example: Wings at Buffalo Wild Wings, which I was told were gluten free, but then found out the cooks in the back were using the same ****ing stove to cook everything with. That messed up my day)

Atticas
04-03-2016, 05:35 PM
And alright, I can do that man. I was considering just trying a week long water fast this time, but if you think juicing would be better, I can do that.

Do you recommend I specifically order that juicefeasting video from that website and follow their protocol? Or should I just find a generic, good juicefeasting protocol online and stick to that strictly for a week

entropy
04-03-2016, 06:26 PM
You need to slow down first tbh. You haven't even gotten your head around fasting etc yet. Now a week of juice feasting isn't going to do shit for you, that stuff is 45 days +. I think personally fasting at all is a case by case basis, I only did a couple of 3 day fasts before I started on the actual regime. And I didnt start that all at once. A huge part of this process is getting to understand how your own body works, then adjusting to best remedy your own issues.

Atticas
04-03-2016, 11:11 PM
You need to slow down first tbh. You haven't even gotten your head around fasting etc yet. Now a week of juice feasting isn't going to do shit for you, that stuff is 45 days +. I think personally fasting at all is a case by case basis, I only did a couple of 3 day fasts before I started on the actual regime. And I didnt start that all at once. A huge part of this process is getting to understand how your own body works, then adjusting to best remedy your own issues.

Alright....

Well, given what cdsnuts is recommending, maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle here lol

Perhaps a 3-5 day water fast?

After that, I could start up the whole protocol: 7 natural test boosters to start, B complex, Magnesium Complex, Fish Oils, Paleo Type Diet, VSL#3 Probiotics, Meditation, workout religiously like normal, drink tons of water still, and practice HITT once to twice a week.

Sound good?

Cdsnuts
04-04-2016, 05:32 AM
You need to slow down first tbh. You haven't even gotten your head around fasting etc yet. Now a week of juice feasting isn't going to do shit for you, that stuff is 45 days +. I think personally fasting at all is a case by case basis, I only did a couple of 3 day fasts before I started on the actual regime. And I didnt start that all at once. A huge part of this process is getting to understand how your own body works, then adjusting to best remedy your own issues.

A week of juice feasting will do shit for him. It will do shit for everyone.

Cdsnuts
04-04-2016, 05:36 AM
Alright....

Well, given what cdsnuts is recommending, maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle here lol

Perhaps a 3-5 day water fast?

After that, I could start up the whole protocol: 7 natural test boosters to start, B complex, Magnesium Complex, Fish Oils, Paleo Type Diet, VSL#3 Probiotics, Meditation, workout religiously like normal, drink tons of water still, and practice HITT once to twice a week.

Sound good?

Listen....I'm not wasting my time..... You asked my advice, I'm giving it to you, and now you're second guessing it? Too many cooks ruin the soup. Pick someone and listen to their advice and follow it. Stop being so indecisive. If you can swing a week long water fast, go for it. You know that means nothing but water for a week, correct?

If not do a juice feast. one week.

English
04-04-2016, 06:07 AM
Atticus, I offended you and am sorry if that is the case, it is a British sense of humour thing, same with Entropy, British people take the piss mercilessly and that is our humour.
I was one of the quickest forced recoveries to this condition out there, and Entropy is recovered too in a similar time frame, so you shouldn't try to swat away guys like us so easy just cause we take the piss out of you a bit (referring to your post in other thread)

Recovery is about belief as much as the doing, without either you won't achieve your aim.

You must pick a regimen that you believe in and stick with it wholeheartedly. I advise that you stick exactly with what CD is saying to you, but right now i honestly wouldn't pick you as someone who will recover unless you dramatically change your mindset. Right now you've described symptoms that are pretty low level stuff for this condition, yet you are pannicking and jumping from one thing to the next like a headless chicken and with even less will power or staying power.

It's pretty fucking simple, follow exactly what CD says. In truth the minor variations of what CD did, what i did and what Entropy did are immaterial, if you replicate what any of us did and continue to do you will recover fully, but the thing you're missing right now seems to be iron will, belief and the ability to commit long term to this new way of life. That's all your missing, but then that is what 99% of all guys like you are missing. Fix it, follow CD 100% for years, and you're done, and by the way, when i first read about CD and his recovery, i didn't think "i thought that might be an old variation of the new diet so i binner it after a week" or whatever similar thing you typed, i trusted in the guy, and in the fact that many other recovery stories feature paleo type diets, so i went paleo, permanently.
What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Get on with it, and Atticus, while you're doing it, be thankful that the truly devastating feature of pfs did not occur to you - ie ED and removed libido. You will definitely get all your bulk back and your skin will recover. I myself went down to 11 stone something, and i lost the fat on my face too. I'm back to a pretty buff 14 stone now and my skin is fine. I'm 41 which means your skin etc. will bounce back easier and quicker than mine.

So.... calm down, don't be so easily offended, get some metal into your character and like CD says, pick your horse and stick with it. Don't question it, just read about what he did, relax and do.

Atticas
04-04-2016, 07:01 AM
Atticus, I offended you and am sorry if that is the case, it is a British sense of humour thing, same with Entropy, British people take the piss mercilessly and that is our humour.
I was one of the quickest forced recoveries to this condition out there, and Entropy is recovered too in a similar time frame, so you shouldn't try to swat away guys like us so easy just cause we take the piss out of you a bit (referring to your post in other thread)

Recovery is about belief as much as the doing, without either you won't achieve your aim.

You must pick a regimen that you believe in and stick with it wholeheartedly. I advise that you stick exactly with what CD is saying to you, but right now i honestly wouldn't pick you as someone who will recover unless you dramatically change your mindset. Right now you've described symptoms that are pretty low level stuff for this condition, yet you are pannicking and jumping from one thing to the next like a headless chicken and with even less will power or staying power.

It's pretty fucking simple, follow exactly what CD says. In truth the minor variations of what CD did, what i did and what Entropy did are immaterial, if you replicate what any of us did and continue to do you will recover fully, but the thing you're missing right now seems to be iron will, belief and the ability to commit long term to this new way of life. That's all your missing, but then that is what 99% of all guys like you are missing. Fix it, follow CD 100% for years, and you're done, and by the way, when i first read about CD and his recovery, i didn't think "i thought that might be an old variation of the new diet so i binner it after a week" or whatever similar thing you typed, i trusted in the guy, and in the fact that many other recovery stories feature paleo type diets, so i went paleo, permanently.
What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Get on with it, and Atticus, while you're doing it, be thankful that the truly devastating feature of pfs did not occur to you - ie ED and removed libido. You will definitely get all your bulk back and your skin will recover. I myself went down to 11 stone something, and i lost the fat on my face too. I'm back to a pretty buff 14 stone now and my skin is fine. I'm 41 which means your skin etc. will bounce back easier and quicker than mine.

So.... calm down, don't be so easily offended, get some metal into your character and like CD says, pick your horse and stick with it. Don't question it, just read about what he did, relax and do.

Thanks man.

I do have the willpower, just needed some positive, educated support and that's what I've found here. You're completely right that I am freaking out; I have been for nearly a year and 6 months. Ever since my shit shrunk up, my muscle atrophied, my face fell apart, my sleep grew weak, and my huge bouts of depression kicked in, I've been jumping from doctor to doctor, forum to forum trying to find the cure. I didn't want this to be the end of me. Thanks to people like you, it won't be.

Very well. I'm gonna talk with my boss today at work and see if I can set a week of vacation some point in May. I will try from there to go on a full water fast for a week (And yes cd, I realize that means only water lol).

I'll likely lock myself up in my room and play games or teach myself more Russian for that week since trying to work or anything else without food will likely result in me exploding on someone lol

Anyways, I'll keep you guys updated. I really appreciate everything here guys. Cdsnuts, thank you so much for your patience and detail with me here. If 6 months is what it takes to get me healed, then I'll do it.

Technically that means I'd be healed right around when October hits, which is my birthday, which is conveniently right around where I took Finasteride 2 years from then.

English
04-04-2016, 10:25 AM
Thanks man.

I do have the willpower, just needed some positive, educated support and that's what I've found here. You're completely right that I am freaking out; I have been for nearly a year and 6 months. Ever since my shit shrunk up, my muscle atrophied, my face fell apart, my sleep grew weak, and my huge bouts of depression kicked in, I've been jumping from doctor to doctor, forum to forum trying to find the cure. I didn't want this to be the end of me. Thanks to people like you, it won't be.

Very well. I'm gonna talk with my boss today at work and see if I can set a week of vacation some point in May. I will try from there to go on a full water fast for a week (And yes cd, I realize that means only water lol).

I'll likely lock myself up in my room and play games or teach myself more Russian for that week since trying to work or anything else without food will likely result in me exploding on someone lol

Anyways, I'll keep you guys updated. I really appreciate everything here guys. Cdsnuts, thank you so much for your patience and detail with me here. If 6 months is what it takes to get me healed, then I'll do it.

Technically that means I'd be healed right around when October hits, which is my birthday, which is conveniently right around where I took Finasteride 2 years from then.


You're still not getting it though, because you're saying "if 6 months is what it takes then i'll do it", like it's some kind of ordeal that must be got out of the way and then stopped. This is a way of life, not water fasting obviously, but fasting is the start point, then living ridiculously healthy has to be the way of life for you - as a minimum for 2 years, regardless of recovery, and when you've lived like that for so long and felt the benefits, then it will likely become something you want to do for life anyhow.
The problem you will have with your current mindset is that you won't be feeling positive about things that are hard to do. Fasting is hard, sprints and calisthnetics are hard, sticking to a diet is hard, especially when suffering to whatever degree, so you have to enjoy all these disciplines and get jacked up by doing them, not thinking "phew, just 4 months left of this shit"
You have to have the right mindset for all of this, cd will certainly agree with me on this.
Right now you will definitely fail, i would bet my house on it. You need to do some thinking about the person you want to be and you need to see this as an opportunity to test your character.
I was feeling fucking awful and suffering with around 20 horrible symptoms, yet - for example, and this really is what i did, i would get up at 6am and swim against the waves in the sea, even in the winter, and particularly when it was relatively stormy. While doing it i was shouting and screaming stuff like "You can't beat me motherfucker, nothing can" and i was laughing while doing it, and in general i saw the whole thing as an excellent challenge and test of character, and believe it or not, i came to enjoy doing all these really difficult things while in shit state physically, and i shit you not, i did all this on no more than 3 hours sleep for 6 months. While doing all this stuff - diet, exercise and mental work - i never once thought "alright i'll do it for 6 months if i have to". That shit never crossed my mind, i knew i was going to do it for as long as it took, and then at least another 2 years on top. I read that CD kept getting better and better so i thought "i'm fucking havin some of that". Entropy did the same kind of regimen too and we kept in touch, and through the majority of my healing i was basing much of what i did around the past stuff CD had written, yet i never contacted him wondering this that or the other. Why? because it's all written, and in fact every possible query is answered during various exchanges between him and a variety of fuckwits on the PH boards.
What you guys yearn for is reassurance that this or that symptom will heal because someone elses healed, but you've got to be bigger than that, you've got to understand that you won't heal by repeatedly re-visiting your symptoms, checking whether they've got 1% better today and asking someone else about their's, you've got to break away from that crap. The reality is that if you commit to what CD has said and is saying to you, you will be a much better man at the end of it all and all of your symptoms will be gone, but only with the right mindset.
While i'm here i want to clarify that you should not cultivate a constant aggressive battling mindset, no, you need to relax like a sleeping lion whenever you can, thinking of either nothing at all, or just the mundane things in life or looking forward to something nice or remembering something nice, but then switch to alpha man for the exercise and when taking the herbs etc. You can't recover by being constantly frightened or worried or battling in your head. This is why CD recommends meditation and via centrepoint as it requires nothing but listening and it will create the beginning of a quieter mind so that you can eventually relax and not think about anything.
I hope you get what i am saying as it's very hard explaining a mindset, but this is very definitely the thing you are missing, it's ragingly obvious to me from your words.
I've done my best here and hopefully made up for taking the piss. Good luck fella, but like i say to so many, you don't need any.

Cdsnuts
04-04-2016, 02:03 PM
I can't stress enough how important mindset is in this whole thing. English just hit the nail on the head. I've constantly tried to tell guys that but unfortunately it's one of the hardest things to do. Do yourself a favor....

STOP going to propecia help.
STOP reading horror stories of what this drug can do.
STOP thinking about your symptoms (easier said than done.....but you HAVE to constantly work at it)

You have to know, that what you are undertaking will have nothing but POSITIVE benefits for you. You're always going to be moving in the right direction should you stay the course.

entropy
04-04-2016, 05:42 PM
They're right you know. This isn't six months. Or a year. Or two years. And magically you'll end up healed. It's a lifestyle choice that results in improvements overtime. I can't speak for these guys but I didn't wake up on morning and run down the street yelling "I'm cured!, hallelujah I'm cured!" I actually realised one day that the only symptom I still had was tinnitus... Was a good day. Still keeping up the lifestyle though.

English
04-05-2016, 03:49 AM
They're right you know. This isn't six months. Or a year. Or two years. And magically you'll end up healed. It's a lifestyle choice that results in improvements overtime. I can't speak for these guys but I didn't wake up on morning and run down the street yelling "I'm cured!, hallelujah I'm cured!" I actually realised one day that the only symptom I still had was tinnitus... Was a good day. Still keeping up the lifestyle though.

Same for me, gradual recovery with many sudden noticeable uplifts, then backwards a bit, then another level a month or 2 later, and at some point i realised that sex wasn't an issue anymore, that i kept looking at girls again, that i was no different to any other man, except that i was stronger, fitter than them, like Entropy said, i noticed this over time, so no one day was full of relief and celebration, and actually when i realised for sure that i was recovered, it was nothing, i just carried on with my day, i think mainly because i knew i wasn't gunna wallow in that shit state for long, it was a passing phase, i was metaphorically back in army training, and (after i got over the initial shitting myself phase) it was nothing more than that, i never moaned about symptoms, i never made a massive deal out of it, just did what i knew was right to recover my health. One of the big reasons guys spend so long in the condition is because they make such a massive deal out of it and keep re-inforcing their fears on a daily basis on forums like PH.

Cdsnuts
04-05-2016, 07:41 AM
Four steps forward, one or two steps back. As long as you're making forward progress there is nothing to worry about.

Atticas
04-05-2016, 08:48 PM
You're still not getting it though, because you're saying "if 6 months is what it takes then i'll do it", like it's some kind of ordeal that must be got out of the way and then stopped. This is a way of life, not water fasting obviously, but fasting is the start point, then living ridiculously healthy has to be the way of life for you - as a minimum for 2 years, regardless of recovery, and when you've lived like that for so long and felt the benefits, then it will likely become something you want to do for life anyhow.
The problem you will have with your current mindset is that you won't be feeling positive about things that are hard to do. Fasting is hard, sprints and calisthnetics are hard, sticking to a diet is hard, especially when suffering to whatever degree, so you have to enjoy all these disciplines and get jacked up by doing them, not thinking "phew, just 4 months left of this shit"
You have to have the right mindset for all of this, cd will certainly agree with me on this.
Right now you will definitely fail, i would bet my house on it. You need to do some thinking about the person you want to be and you need to see this as an opportunity to test your character.


I shouldn't have wrote it that way... basically what I mean to say is "six MORE months" of trying something different in hopes of defeating PFS once and for all. I've already been trying to fight this disease in multiple different ways... this will just be a new way I look forward to committing to. It's been hard for me to discern which way to go about fighting this for a long time. I mean, since the very beginning of my fight, i've seen people posting all sorts of theories and I've read all sorts of scientific backings for these multiple theories had... but this definitely seems to be the right place for me to have finally landed, with so many of you having actually healed and all seemingly relying on the same protocol instead of relying on MULTIPLE different theories spread throughout MULTIPLE different threads.

Anyways, my diet is already borderline paleo as it is (other that the sugar I occasionally indulge in), I've been writing up diet plans and eating mostly gluten-free, dairy-free since I was in college, and i'm certainly not afraid of exercise, considering I've been a gym fanatic and athletic type person since age 14. This won't be near my toughest challenge yet.

So if you're betting your house on me not having enough willpower to stick through this, expect to lose the house.

Atticas
04-05-2016, 09:05 PM
Alright, so it looks like my boss is gonna schedule me for a 7-11 day vacation starting around May 13th. Since I've got all that extra time to prepare, I guess I will go with the juice feast after all as I'll have time to buy and prepare everything. I would have liked to have just done the water fast now, but I work in too much of a stressful, customer service environment and if it must wait, I might as well get some nutrition out of my fast. I called up my uncle and talked with him about it (he's been familiar with juicing for a while) and he apparently wants to go on the fast with me when I start, so that'll be fun.

After I get back from vacation, I'll look to order creatine HCL, B Complex, Magnesium Complex, He Shou Wu, Pine Pollen, Ant Extract, Ashwaganda, Cistanche, Tongkat, and Maral Root. I've already got Fish Oils so we're good there.

I'll continue to exercise, meditate, hydrate, and perform HITT training at least once to twice per week (which will be fun since I love running on this one track late at night close to my house), while also eating a Paleo diet and re-working my eating habits so I can carb backload at night.

I'll keep you guys updated and thanks again!

English
04-07-2016, 05:32 AM
I shouldn't have wrote it that way... basically what I mean to say is "six MORE months" of trying something different in hopes of defeating PFS once and for all. I've already been trying to fight this disease in multiple different ways... this will just be a new way I look forward to committing to. It's been hard for me to discern which way to go about fighting this for a long time. I mean, since the very beginning of my fight, i've seen people posting all sorts of theories and I've read all sorts of scientific backings for these multiple theories had... but this definitely seems to be the right place for me to have finally landed, with so many of you having actually healed and all seemingly relying on the same protocol instead of relying on MULTIPLE different theories spread throughout MULTIPLE different threads.

Anyways, my diet is already borderline paleo as it is (other that the sugar I occasionally indulge in), I've been writing up diet plans and eating mostly gluten-free, dairy-free since I was in college, and i'm certainly not afraid of exercise, considering I've been a gym fanatic and athletic type person since age 14. This won't be near my toughest challenge yet.

So if you're betting your house on me not having enough willpower to stick through this, expect to lose the house.


Good, it's just a paleo type diet though not strict paleo, in fact strict paleo people argue over what is strict paleo so best not to get too caught up in it. Dairy fine if your not intolerant and high fat dairy like cheese and cream is good for T. For me dairy is a key component. High quality animal fat and meat, high fat diet in general, lots of veg, eggs, nuts, that kind of thing. Very important to eat as organic as possible, no processed sugar at all.
This way is the only way. I've not seen any recovery stories involving chemical assistance that - when taken away - leaves a state of full recovery, and the vast majority of HRT fail within 30 days to 2 months, leaving those who are "successful" slightly better off but not living full lives. I saw a quote from one of the guys being treated by one of the two famous doc in this area - shippen i think - that basically outlined how the doc admitted he had never in all the years treating post fin, had a succesful long term result.
It's this way or nothing, unless you are one of the guys that just spontaneously recover 3 to 15 years out, and by doing the regimen, you're not blocking that possibility either. Note: Every "spontaneous" recovery i've read about also involves the guy disappearing from forums - basically giving up on trying to find an answer - and just living healthily, which is basically the regimen, except we put rocket boosters under the fucker and improvements are felt pretty much quarterly if not monthly.

Never mention any symptom again, stop screaming at the mirror as that doesn't help does it, and believe me, you are much bigger and better looking than you think you are, part of this stuff is body dysmorphia and you have to recognise that to move forward.


I wouldn't bet my house now as your mindset may be changing, but i would still bet a lot, so yeah, prove me wrong.

English
04-07-2016, 05:56 AM
Alright, so it looks like my boss is gonna schedule me for a 7-11 day vacation starting around May 13th. Since I've got all that extra time to prepare, I guess I will go with the juice feast after all as I'll have time to buy and prepare everything. I would have liked to have just done the water fast now, but I work in too much of a stressful, customer service environment and if it must wait, I might as well get some nutrition out of my fast. I called up my uncle and talked with him about it (he's been familiar with juicing for a while) and he apparently wants to go on the fast with me when I start, so that'll be fun.

After I get back from vacation, I'll look to order creatine HCL, B Complex, Magnesium Complex, He Shou Wu, Pine Pollen, Ant Extract, Ashwaganda, Cistanche, Tongkat, and Maral Root. I've already got Fish Oils so we're good there.

I'll continue to exercise, meditate, hydrate, and perform HITT training at least once to twice per week (which will be fun since I love running on this one track late at night close to my house), while also eating a Paleo diet and re-working my eating habits so I can carb backload at night.

I'll keep you guys updated and thanks again!

Now you're on the right track. Remember to improve your regimen at least every month to keep it fresh, you must have something new to look forward to, so keep improving it, adding to it as then on your bad days you can still think "ah but next month i'm adding this as well" etc. Never forget this thing requires a free, happy, inspired mind to drive your body forwards. I have a funny plaque on the wall on the bottom of the stairs with a dopey looking dog in a basket and a thought bubble that says "today i'm going to be magnificent" and i see it every morning after i get up, and that shit helps, because you can't argue with it, i mean why the fuck should i have an average day when it's my choice to be good, bad, shit, average or magnificent. I choose magnificent every day, and my body follows.
I'm not stealing any of CD's thunder in my replies to you here and before, because i know him very well and i know he agrees with every word. He is also much more knowledgeable than me in the whole area of health and fitness and i learn stuff from him each month if not on a weekly basis. I recommend you crack on with his programme, bin all forums apart from this one, and even on this one don't engage in a load of pfs talk, just read what guys like CD are doing in the normal areas of health and fitness. Basically live normally, but as a super healthy guy with some herbal rotation, permanently, that's all it is at the end of the day.

Atticas
04-07-2016, 08:03 PM
Good, it's just a paleo type diet though not strict paleo, in fact strict paleo people argue over what is strict paleo so best not to get too caught up in it. Dairy fine if your not intolerant and high fat dairy like cheese and cream is good for T. For me dairy is a key component. High quality animal fat and meat, high fat diet in general, lots of veg, eggs, nuts, that kind of thing. Very important to eat as organic as possible, no processed sugar at all.
This way is the only way. I've not seen any recovery stories involving chemical assistance that - when taken away - leaves a state of full recovery, and the vast majority of HRT fail within 30 days to 2 months, leaving those who are "successful" slightly better off but not living full lives. I saw a quote from one of the guys being treated by one of the two famous doc in this area - shippen i think - that basically outlined how the doc admitted he had never in all the years treating post fin, had a succesful long term result.
It's this way or nothing, unless you are one of the guys that just spontaneously recover 3 to 15 years out, and by doing the regimen, you're not blocking that possibility either. Note: Every "spontaneous" recovery i've read about also involves the guy disappearing from forums - basically giving up on trying to find an answer - and just living healthily, which is basically the regimen, except we put rocket boosters under the fucker and improvements are felt pretty much quarterly if not monthly.

Never mention any symptom again, stop screaming at the mirror as that doesn't help does it, and believe me, you are much bigger and better looking than you think you are, part of this stuff is body dysmorphia and you have to recognise that to move forward.


I wouldn't bet my house now as your mindset may be changing, but i would still bet a lot, so yeah, prove me wrong.

Thanks for the positivity man.

I honestly think I'm headed in the right track here and I'm excited for it. I don't think it's going to happen that I'd have to wait 3 to 15 years for this to fall off. Based off of the different success stories I've read from propeciahelp and solvepfs, it really just sounds like you've got to make some big changes in your health and fitness, take good certain herbs and probiotics, and just kill whatever the fuck in your body is not allowing you to return back to normal....

....and that's what I'm going to do. I'm gonna kill the fucker in my body and I'm gonna grow back into the beast I know I could be all along.

Grape Ape
04-07-2016, 08:33 PM
Good for you.

This style is how I started recovering g from designer oral steroid abuse in my late teens. Took a long time to figure out, and I headed this way before I even knew of CDN's method, but he has been nothing but I wonder.

Healthy lifestyle+proper herbal supplementation were the two biggies, but fixing my mentality and mind was even bigger. I'm still working on the later, but it is the biggest piece of the puzzle to me.

My next move is to "Face my fears."


Eliminating/limiting porn was very helpfull as well.

Atticas
04-08-2016, 08:09 AM
Good for you.

This style is how I started recovering g from designer oral steroid abuse in my late teens. Took a long time to figure out, and I headed this way before I even knew of CDN's method, but he has been nothing but I wonder.

Healthy lifestyle+proper herbal supplementation were the two biggies, but fixing my mentality and mind was even bigger. I'm still working on the later, but it is the biggest piece of the puzzle to me.

My next move is to "Face my fears."


Eliminating/limiting porn was very helpfull as well.

We've got a no fapper here? hahah

I have to agree with you somewhat. I think porn as well as frequent masturbation to porn must have some kind of psychological consequence to it, as well as hormonal. There's so many threads of guys discussing why they think porn caused some of their hair loss in the first place as well as guys discussing how they think NOT watching porn and NOT fapping has caused them to grow it back.

It sucks that there's no definite studies on this kind of thing, but I think it's helpful as well.

Cdsnuts
04-08-2016, 09:15 AM
We've got a no fapper here? hahah

I have to agree with you somewhat. I think porn as well as frequent masturbation to porn must have some kind of psychological consequence to it, as well as hormonal. There's so many threads of guys discussing why they think porn caused some of their hair loss in the first place as well as guys discussing how they think NOT watching porn and NOT fapping has caused them to grow it back.

It sucks that there's no definite studies on this kind of thing, but I think it's helpful as well.

You should join the no fapping club as well, tbh. Porn induced ED is real. Bottom line....if you want to get off, go chase women as we were designed to do. This causes a whole cascade of hormones which results in increased Testosterone. Having sex with women as we were also designed to do also causes a positive effect on mens sex hormones. We weren't meant to beat it to a glass box as our primary form of sexual release.

How long will it take to recover from Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction? | Your Brain On Porn (http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/how-long-will-it-take)

Atticas
04-08-2016, 05:22 PM
You should join the no fapping club as well, tbh. Porn induced ED is real. Bottom line....if you want to get off, go chase women as we were designed to do. This causes a whole cascade of hormones which results in increased Testosterone. Having sex with women as we were also designed to do also causes a positive effect on mens sex hormones. We weren't meant to beat it to a glass box as our primary form of sexual release.

How long will it take to recover from Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction? | Your Brain On Porn (http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/how-long-will-it-take)

I will man. I would say "I'll try", because I've failed this before, but I know you're not trying to hear that, and I know that if that's a step I really need to take to get over this all, then so be it.

I have the willpower to do it; I will do it.

Cdsnuts
04-08-2016, 05:34 PM
I will man. I would say "I'll try", because I've failed this before, but I know you're not trying to hear that, and I know that if that's a step I really need to take to get over this all, then so be it.

I have the willpower to do it; I will do it.

I'm not saying don't give it a tug every once in awhile, I'm just saying don't treat yourself like a dirty amusement park.....when you do spank it, use your mind instead of a computer screen. It's the lesser of two evils. And ultimately, you should be having a woman get you off as much as possible for the benefit of your hormones.

Atticas
04-19-2016, 01:16 PM
Small Update for everyone:

May 13th is when my 11 day vacation will start! May 13th - May 15th, I'll likely be partying with a friend on the beach, then once I get back, HELL WEEK starts as I begin my first ever 1 week juice fast.

Super excited for it though, and I've already got a juicer ready... now to just come up with some good vegetable/fruit mixes and purchase some cups with lids so I can prepare the drinks in advance.

Also, just purchased 9 of the 23 or so supplements that cdsnuts recommended. Supermanherbs.com was unfortunately out of a few good ones that I really wanted, but I still managed to get the following:

> Pine Pollen
> Tongkat Ali
> Cistanche
> Mucuna
> Rhodiola
> Ant Extract
> Royal Jelly
> Lion's Mane
> Cordyceps

Once I come off the juice fast, I'll begin cycling these, taking one for 2 days straight, then moving on to the next supplement for 2 days straight, and on and on.

English
04-19-2016, 01:54 PM
Small Update for everyone:

May 13th is when my 11 day vacation will start! May 13th - May 15th, I'll likely be partying with a friend on the beach, then once I get back, HELL WEEK starts as I begin my first ever 1 week juice fast.

Super excited for it though, and I've already got a juicer ready... now to just come up with some good vegetable/fruit mixes and purchase some cups with lids so I can prepare the drinks in advance.

Also, just purchased 9 of the 23 or so supplements that cdsnuts recommended. Supermanherbs.com was unfortunately out of a few good ones that I really wanted, but I still managed to get the following:

> Pine Pollen
> Tongkat Ali
> Cistanche
> Mucuna
> Rhodiola
> Ant Extract
> Royal Jelly
> Lion's Mane
> Cordyceps

Once I come off the juice fast, I'll begin cycling these, taking one for 2 days straight, then moving on to the next supplement for 2 days straight, and on and on.

All sounds good except the partying on the beach for two days bit, i take it that means a shit load of alcohol and/or drugs?

Atticas
04-19-2016, 02:20 PM
All sounds good except the partying on the beach for two days bit, i take it that means a shit load of alcohol and/or drugs?

No drugs... but yes, alcohol lol

I'm usually really careful about what I drink however, because my food allergies don't really allow for me to mess up.

Tequila + Angry Orchard (as well as other hard ciders) are basically my only go-to's.

Think I could this last party with my boy before starting the protocol?

I imagine it wouldn't totally destroy the progress I've been making the last couple months, nor ruin my chances of benefiting from the juice fast.... but hell, you guys are more the experts than me.

English
04-19-2016, 03:11 PM
No drugs... but yes, alcohol lol

I'm usually really careful about what I drink however, because my food allergies don't really allow for me to mess up.

Tequila + Angry Orchard (as well as other hard ciders) are basically my only go-to's.

Think I could this last party with my boy before starting the protocol?

I imagine it wouldn't totally destroy the progress I've been making the last couple months, nor ruin my chances of benefiting from the juice fast.... but hell, you guys are more the experts than me.

Here's the thing, i'm no expert, but i am experienced, partly because i'm now 41, but partly because i've recovered. Before i recovered, i was destroyed by pfs for a time and i had just split with my partner of 18 years and got with the love of my life. I explain this because i needed to recover more than anything i had ever needed to do before in my life, otherwise i would lose my new love (i'm marrying her this July and now have a 10 month old son with her) and also a number of businesses that i own and manage.
Maybe you're not particularly bothered about recovery, or not bothered enough, whatever, as having one last piss up is not the mindset i would ever have had because i had to recover - i had to.
There will always be one last piss up with you i think, and that's a problem. If it were me i would buy some non alcoholic beer, spit roast some pork on the beach and have some fun. Getting pissed will not help you, of course it will set you back, it always does. Best to go alcohol free and learn to have fun in different ways, until you can drink again, it's not so bad, in fact you learn alot about yourself.

Cdsnuts
04-19-2016, 04:27 PM
No drugs... but yes, alcohol lol

I'm usually really careful about what I drink however, because my food allergies don't really allow for me to mess up.

Tequila + Angry Orchard (as well as other hard ciders) are basically my only go-to's.

Think I could this last party with my boy before starting the protocol?

I imagine it wouldn't totally destroy the progress I've been making the last couple months, nor ruin my chances of benefiting from the juice fast.... but hell, you guys are more the experts than me.

A few things.....

Honestly....it doesn't sound like your really suffering that much given what you just wrote. If you have the desire to go get fucked up on the beach, you must not really be in the shit as much as some other people or I was at the time.

And.....you shouldn't start right in with the herbs after the juice feast. Too soon. You should get refed for a month or so and after about the two week mark of solid food, you should start your calisthenics routine.

And....you only want to take each herb ONE day and then go onto the next one.

Atticas
04-20-2016, 08:13 AM
A few things.....

Honestly....it doesn't sound like your really suffering that much given what you just wrote. If you have the desire to go get fucked up on the beach, you must not really be in the shit as much as some other people or I was at the time.

And.....you shouldn't start right in with the herbs after the juice feast. Too soon. You should get refed for a month or so and after about the two week mark of solid food, you should start your calisthenics routine.

And....you only want to take each herb ONE day and then go onto the next one.

I'm still pretty messed up lol don't get me wrong...

But I spent literally most of last year at work or cooped up in my room depressed after all the side effects.

This year I want to live again, and I don't want to lose my friends so I go out more now.

I already told my buddy this will probably be the last time I'm going to drink for a while, and then I can be his DD for the rest of the summer.

Cdsnuts
04-20-2016, 09:23 AM
I'm still pretty messed up lol don't get me wrong...

But I spent literally most of last year at work or cooped up in my room depressed after all the side effects.

This year I want to live again, and I don't want to lose my friends so I go out more now.

I already told my buddy this will probably be the last time I'm going to drink for a while, and then I can be his DD for the rest of the summer.

Your decision, your life. It's just one decision after another. You choose the outcome. Have fun.

entropy
04-20-2016, 07:11 PM
You can't drink. You don't need it to have fun either. If you absolutely must use some kinda substance try kratom, phenibut and although I've never tried it and therefore can't recommend it myself I've heard grapeape speak highly of kavakava. Honestly though man you need to eat, sleep and breath this particular "cure" for it to work. Big secret is, it's not a cure at all really, it's giving your body the absolute perfect environment to heal itself... Drinking will set you back and it's not worth it.. And altering your consciousness at all when you're really trying to pay attention to really subtle clues at all just makes it so much harder than it needs to be.

Atticas
04-20-2016, 10:28 PM
You can't drink. You don't need it to have fun either. If you absolutely must use some kinda substance try kratom, phenibut and although I've never tried it and therefore can't recommend it myself I've heard grapeape speak highly of kavakava. Honestly though man you need to eat, sleep and breath this particular "cure" for it to work. Big secret is, it's not a cure at all really, it's giving your body the absolute perfect environment to heal itself... Drinking will set you back and it's not worth it.. And altering your consciousness at all when you're really trying to pay attention to really subtle clues at all just makes it so much harder than it needs to be.

Alright... I get what you guys are saying.

Sorry for my preposed disloyalty to the protocol here. I've just been trying to get out more and live more like a normal person instead of what I did basically all last year. You guys are right though; I shouldn't be drinking. I know my friend says he'll be cool with it, but he's always the kind of person who loves to drink so it's just gonna be awkward.

Still though, in order for my friends to finally have the full version of their friend back, I need to do this.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep everyone updated.

Snell1234
04-21-2016, 02:09 AM
Alright... I get what you guys are saying.

Sorry for my preposed disloyalty to the protocol here. I've just been trying to get out more and live more like a normal person instead of what I did basically all last year. You guys are right though; I shouldn't be drinking. I know my friend says he'll be cool with it, but he's always the kind of person who loves to drink so it's just gonna be awkward.

Still though, in order for my friends to finally have the full version of their friend back, I need to do this.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep everyone updated.

Good man.

It's good that you've got the herbs but remember the cleanse and the dietary changes are the biggest parts to the regime from what I have gathered.

Also, keep taking your probiotics (VSL#3) and s. boulardii. English would recommend s boulardii for you based on posts over at the waste site.

English
04-21-2016, 05:02 AM
Alright... I get what you guys are saying.

Sorry for my preposed disloyalty to the protocol here. I've just been trying to get out more and live more like a normal person instead of what I did basically all last year. You guys are right though; I shouldn't be drinking. I know my friend says he'll be cool with it, but he's always the kind of person who loves to drink so it's just gonna be awkward.

Still though, in order for my friends to finally have the full version of their friend back, I need to do this.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep everyone updated.

Loads of people give up drink completely. One of my best friends is teetotal and she is the most popular of a social group that is otherwise full of heavy social drinkers. It can be done, it's just a change of mindset issue, and if your friends are in any way unsupportive, then you need new friends.

Atticas
04-21-2016, 05:45 AM
Good man.

It's good that you've got the herbs but remember the cleanse and the dietary changes are the biggest parts to the regime from what I have gathered.

Also, keep taking your probiotics (VSL#3) and s. boulardii. English would recommend s boulardii for you based on posts over at the waste site.

Dude, how in the world did you get your hands on Ethical Nutrients IBS Support? Like every site I go to that used to sell it says something about it being low stock and that I should visit local stores near me lol

I've continued taking the VSL#3 currently and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. Any substitute for the EN IBS Support you'd recommend?

Snell1234
04-21-2016, 06:28 AM
Dude, how in the world did you get your hands on Ethical Nutrients IBS Support? Like every site I go to that used to sell it says something about it being low stock and that I should visit local stores near me lol

I've continued taking the VSL#3 currently and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. Any substitute for the EN IBS Support you'd recommend?
It's widely available in all stores in Australia (I'm unsure about the States).

If you're taking VSL#3, you're getting 30 billion of plantarum out of that - so no need to get the IBS support too.

Atticas
04-21-2016, 12:30 PM
It's widely available in all stores in Australia (I'm unsure about the States).

If you're taking VSL#3, you're getting 30 billion of plantarum out of that - so no need to get the IBS support too.

Alright, I'll just stick with the VSL#3 then.

GOD I'm ready to do this already. This wait sucks

Atticas
04-21-2016, 12:37 PM
quick question for everyone btw,

Can someone please link me some articles/research on the benefits of juice fasting?

I just wanna know I have solid reasoning for doing this going in. I told someone I was gonna go on this fast and they sent me a link basically trying to discredit the whole idea -___-

I'm still planning on going through with it nevertheless. I can do more research on my own later but I'm at work right now about to come back from lunch break

Cdsnuts
04-21-2016, 05:00 PM
quick question for everyone btw,

Can someone please link me some articles/research on the benefits of juice fasting?

I just wanna know I have solid reasoning for doing this going in. I told someone I was gonna go on this fast and they sent me a link basically trying to discredit the whole idea -___-

I'm still planning on going through with it nevertheless. I can do more research on my own later but I'm at work right now about to come back from lunch break

smh

This is growing tiresome.

If you're going to try and find reasons not do do something, in most cases you always will. Do me a favor..... Stop pming me so many questions if you're not going to follow my advice.

Stop wasting time and just do the damn thing already. Jesus.....

It is very clear after your numerous posts you're not ready. You just keep posting these things that jump out at everyone on the other side of this that you're completely dragging your feet.

This person that you told about your juice feast.....are they experienced doing these things? Have they done several extended fasts on water and juice? Are they suffering from pfs? I'm curious.

Snell1234
04-21-2016, 06:57 PM
smh

This is growing tiresome.

If you're going to try and find reasons not do do something, in most cases you always will. Do me a favor..... Stop pming me so many questions if you're not going to follow my advice.

Stop wasting time and just do the damn thing already. Jesus.....

It is very clear after your numerous posts you're not ready. You just keep posting these things that jump out at everyone on the other side of this that you're completely dragging your feet.

This person that you told about your juice feast.....are they experienced doing these things? Have they done several extended fasts on water and juice? Are they suffering from pfs? I'm curious.

Atticas, he's right. You have to just do it. Don't tell anyone what you are doing, keep it all to yourself. People will criticise and tell you not to do what you are doing as they have no idea about what you are going through and what you need to do.

This is a battle you must win. No one else is going to do it for you. There is absolutely zero point sharing any of it with outsiders. I do not tell anyone what I do. I go to restaurants all the time with mates but don't eat. I cop it for not eating and get lots of questions, but I don't care. I am on a mission and peer pressure and people's questions and judgements are not going to stop me. You have to adopt a single minded approach to this where you freeze everything and everyone else out and do what you need to do.

Atticas
04-21-2016, 11:05 PM
smh

This is growing tiresome.

If you're going to try and find reasons not do do something, in most cases you always will. Do me a favor..... Stop pming me so many questions if you're not going to follow my advice.

Stop wasting time and just do the damn thing already. Jesus.....

It is very clear after your numerous posts you're not ready. You just keep posting these things that jump out at everyone on the other side of this that you're completely dragging your feet.

This person that you told about your juice feast.....are they experienced doing these things? Have they done several extended fasts on water and juice? Are they suffering from pfs? I'm curious.

I LITERALLY just said I'm still going through with it; All I was asking for was some research/scientific reasoning behind what I'm doing, or I suppose you'd rather my response be to everyone "Oh, well some guy on the internet told me to". Practically the only reason i'm even CONSIDERING going through with this is because other people claim to have healed from your same protocol, certainly not because of any huge body of scientific detail you've proposed here.

So yea, forgive me for asking questions, forgive me for wanting to have a few more drinks with a friend before I go cold turkey the rest of the year, and forgive me for questioning whether I could possibly take a better quality supplement than one of the ones you suggested.

Tell me though, WTF part of thousands of dollars spent in trying to cure this over the last year and a half says "Not ready" to you? WTF does visiting 6 different doctors, even flying out to see one make you think I "don't really want this"? What part of the fact that I stated I already purchased goddamn near $300 worth of your supplement list says I won't go through with it? Or the fact that the juicer's already sitting in my kitchen? I'm not scared of your stupid paleo diet, I've BEEN borderline on it for 5 years, and I'm CERTAINLY not scared of any of the exercise you mention considering I've worked out religiously since I was 14. Frankly, you seriously don't know who the hell you're talking to.

Look, I already told you the due date for this starts in May after I get back from the beach with a friend, which BTW, is part of an 11 day vacation I took JUST to do this juice fast you all claim is so important but don't give me any real scientific detail behind. Regardless, it will happen. I will go through with it. You all go ahead and keep doubting me and giving me your stupid fucking high-horse, condescending responses and believe me, I will come out stronger than you ever goddamn imagined. I was a fucking fit, energetic beast before all this happened, and I will be again, with or without you all believing in me.

I'll update this thread after I start the fast or something, but don't expect a response from me for a while after this. I tried to come at this respectfully and kind, but the elitism horseshit in these forums is pissing me off. I'm not sucking anyone's egotistical, cyber dick to heal from this.

Snell1234
04-22-2016, 01:12 AM
I LITERALLY just said I'm still going through with it; All I was asking for was some research/scientific reasoning behind what I'm doing, or I suppose you'd rather my response be to everyone "Oh, well some guy on the internet told me to". Practically the only reason i'm even CONSIDERING going through with this is because other people claim to have healed from your same protocol, certainly not because of any huge body of scientific detail you've proposed here.

So yea, forgive me for asking questions, forgive me for wanting to have a few more drinks with a friend before I go cold turkey the rest of the year, and forgive me for questioning whether I could possibly take a better quality supplement than one of the ones you suggested.

Tell me though, WTF part of thousands of dollars spent in trying to cure this over the last year and a half says "Not ready" to you? WTF does visiting 6 different doctors, even flying out to see one make you think I "don't really want this"? What part of the fact that I stated I already purchased goddamn near $300 worth of your supplement list says I won't go through with it? Or the fact that the juicer's already sitting in my kitchen? I'm not scared of your stupid paleo diet, I've BEEN borderline on it for 5 years, and I'm CERTAINLY not scared of any of the exercise you mention considering I've worked out religiously since I was 14. Frankly, you seriously don't know who the hell you're talking to.

Look, I already told you the due date for this starts in May after I get back from the beach with a friend, which BTW, is part of an 11 day vacation I took JUST to do this juice fast you all claim is so important but don't give me any real scientific detail behind. Regardless, it will happen. I will go through with it. You all go ahead and keep doubting me and giving me your stupid fucking high-horse, condescending responses and believe me, I will come out stronger than you ever goddamn imagined. I was a fucking fit, energetic beast before all this happened, and I will be again, with or without you all believing in me.

I'll update this thread after I start the fast or something, but don't expect a response from me for a while after this. I tried to come at this respectfully and kind, but the elitism horseshit in these forums is pissing me off. I'm not sucking anyone's egotistical, cyber dick to heal from this.

Mate, settle. Yes, it might appear people are being hard on you. But it is being done for your own good. These guys have been where you are and have got themselves out of it. They are the best to speak to on this issue. The reason they may seem to be hard on you is that they have had hundreds of other people come to them for advice only to ignore their advice completely, implements parts and not all of what they say, or give up after a short period. These people then say the protocol didn't work. You've got to see it would be a source of frustration for Cdnuts when this happens.

Also, Cdnuts doesn't need anything from you. But you are after advice from him. Generally, when someone needs something off another person, you shouldn't speak to the person like that even if you think you have been harshly treated.

In regards to scientific detail, you aren't going to get that from Cdnuts or probably anyone. No one knows what pfs is for sure and probably never will. You have to place your faith in his protocol and live it. I understand it will be hard, but life is hard and nothing comes easy. It's a matter of how much you want this.

In terms of other people and their advice, there will always be some people that say something is good and another set of people who say the same thing is bad. For all Cdnuts has said, there could be some expert who says it is not the right approach. This doesn't make the expert right (far from it, in fact). It just shows that you will never find a protocol like this which gains approval from everyone.

5 alpha victim
04-23-2016, 01:29 AM
I LITERALLY just said I'm still going through with it; All I was asking for was some research/scientific reasoning behind what I'm doing, or I suppose you'd rather my response be to everyone "Oh, well some guy on the internet told me to". Practically the only reason i'm even CONSIDERING going through with this is because other people claim to have healed from your same protocol, certainly not because of any huge body of scientific detail you've proposed here.

So yea, forgive me for asking questions, forgive me for wanting to have a few more drinks with a friend before I go cold turkey the rest of the year, and forgive me for questioning whether I could possibly take a better quality supplement than one of the ones you suggested.

Tell me though, WTF part of thousands of dollars spent in trying to cure this over the last year and a half says "Not ready" to you? WTF does visiting 6 different doctors, even flying out to see one make you think I "don't really want this"? What part of the fact that I stated I already purchased goddamn near $300 worth of your supplement list says I won't go through with it? Or the fact that the juicer's already sitting in my kitchen? I'm not scared of your stupid paleo diet, I've BEEN borderline on it for 5 years, and I'm CERTAINLY not scared of any of the exercise you mention considering I've worked out religiously since I was 14. Frankly, you seriously don't know who the hell you're talking to.

Look, I already told you the due date for this starts in May after I get back from the beach with a friend, which BTW, is part of an 11 day vacation I took JUST to do this juice fast you all claim is so important but don't give me any real scientific detail behind. Regardless, it will happen. I will go through with it. You all go ahead and keep doubting me and giving me your stupid fucking high-horse, condescending responses and believe me, I will come out stronger than you ever goddamn imagined. I was a fucking fit, energetic beast before all this happened, and I will be again, with or without you all believing in me.

I'll update this thread after I start the fast or something, but don't expect a response from me for a while after this. I tried to come at this respectfully and kind, but the elitism horseshit in these forums is pissing me off. I'm not sucking anyone's egotistical, cyber dick to heal from this.


Getting pissed off enough is just a part of what needs to happen to follow this protocol.

The sooner the drinking stops the better.

Brazilianguy
04-29-2016, 09:01 PM
Getting pissed off enough is just a part of what needs to happen to follow this protocol.

The sooner the drinking stops the better.

Man, follow every step of The protocol. It really does work. I'm feeling good at The moment, could be better But now I have some Líbido, some energy, some days with morning wood. Read cdnuts, Jelissej, apr1989, hopingformore, Beekay, elb, light at the end, multispeed27 and you will see that They did a lot of things in common.

Cd, If you're reading this, I have a quick question. I was doing well until I started gym and eating a lot of oats (my cholesterol dropped a lot) I felt a mini crashed But I already recover (eating a lot of eggs and bacon). One thing I noticed, as soon as I started doing gym, my supplements/herbs stopped working and I didn't improve anymore, then I tested stopping gym for 15 days and take them again, everything worked again, now I started gym again and they stopped working. My diet is fine, I'm not drinking even a drop of alcohol for a long time. Do you think I should stop doing gym to let my body recover? I was doing really intense training and getting good results, but supplements stopped working and no improvements in libido, pfs in general,as soon as I stopped they worked again (sorry to sound repetitive)

road to recover
04-30-2016, 03:18 AM
Should I just go ahead and buy a Nutribullet for juicing fruit and veg?

Cdsnuts
04-30-2016, 11:40 AM
Man, follow every step of The protocol. It really does work. I'm feeling good at The moment, could be better But now I have some Líbido, some energy, some days with morning wood. Read cdnuts, Jelissej, apr1989, hopingformore, Beekay, elb, light at the end, multispeed27 and you will see that They did a lot of things in common.

Cd, If you're reading this, I have a quick question. I was doing well until I started gym and eating a lot of oats (my cholesterol dropped a lot) I felt a mini crashed But I already recover (eating a lot of eggs and bacon). One thing I noticed, as soon as I started doing gym, my supplements/herbs stopped working and I didn't improve anymore, then I tested stopping gym for 15 days and take them again, everything worked again, now I started gym again and they stopped working. My diet is fine, I'm not drinking even a drop of alcohol for a long time. Do you think I should stop doing gym to let my body recover? I was doing really intense training and getting good results, but supplements stopped working and no improvements in libido, pfs in general,as soon as I stopped they worked again (sorry to sound repetitive)

It sounds like you're over doing it a bit. Start a calisthenics routine for a month or so and see how that feels. Push ups, pulls ups, squats, handstand push ups, etc. You can search online for countless programs. Pick one and do it. After a month or two, just throw in one weighted exercise per body part mixed in the calisthenics and then see how you do. Stick with this for a few weeks and increase slowly constantly measuring your bodies response to the work. Increase accordingly.

Cdsnuts
04-30-2016, 11:43 AM
Should I just go ahead and buy a Nutribullet for juicing fruit and veg?

No.

You can't juice with a nutribullet. A nutribullet is just a small powerful blender despite what the marketing says. Also the capacity on that thing is too small to make large batches of juice. You're better off buying a powerful blender and using a nutmilk bag. That's how I do it. See here: Google (https://www.google.com/#q=How+to+juice+with+a+nut+milk+bag)

Brazilianguy
05-02-2016, 08:26 AM
It sounds like you're over doing it a bit. Start a calisthenics routine for a month or so and see how that feels. Push ups, pulls ups, squats, handstand push ups, etc. You can search online for countless programs. Pick one and do it. After a month or two, just throw in one weighted exercise per body part mixed in the calisthenics and then see how you do. Stick with this for a few weeks and increase slowly constantly measuring your bodies response to the work. Increase accordingly.

I think I will stop and start Yoga exercises. So my cortisol won't increase. Cd, I'm getting some days that I feel an up like brain fog totally disappear and my mind feels great, but then it declines again, But I still am better than before. You said once that it is to be expected, do you know why this happens? I think its an increase in androgens and then estrogen increase too But less than androgens. Do you know If there is anything I can do to do these three steps ahead without going any step behind? I'm asking for The impossible I guess, but If there is some way to Hold more of This benefits and got just a little bit back would be awesome. Thank you mate for all The things you done and for opening my eyes, this road is tough But I'm getting there.

Cdsnuts
05-02-2016, 08:52 AM
I think I will stop and start Yoga exercises. So my cortisol won't increase. Cd, I'm getting some days that I feel an up like brain fog totally disappear and my mind feels great, but then it declines again, But I still am better than before. You said once that it is to be expected, do you know why this happens? I think its an increase in androgens and then estrogen increase too But less than androgens. Do you know If there is anything I can do to do these three steps ahead without going any step behind? I'm asking for The impossible I guess, but If there is some way to Hold more of This benefits and got just a little bit back would be awesome. Thank you mate for all The things you done and for opening my eyes, this road is tough But I'm getting there.

No....there is not. This is the nature of healing. It comes in waves like the ebb and flow of the tide. Three steps forward one step back. Your general trend is upwards which is all you can ask for and it lets you know that you're on the right path. This is where it gets even more difficult for guys because they do get these days of clarity and power only to see it fade again. This is where people tend to screw up because they get a taste of what it's like to be normal and healthy and it's a tease. It causes them to go off track by adding in drugs, or way too many supplements because they think they are right there and they need a little push and all will be better. Or they think they can go get fucked up with their friends because they're almost healed. This is the exact time when you just need to keep doing what you are doing and not get crazy about it.

You have to learn the dance and how to roll with it. Sometimes you'll take five steps forward and only two steps back, or one step forward and no steps back. You get the idea?

KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING (in regards to supplements, diet, etc) Buckle down and put your nose to the grind stone. You're getting results....don't change anything in that regard.

Yoga is fine but I would add it to a calisthenics routine not have it be your standalone. You need to start working your muscles and getting your body slowly used to a higher and higher work capacity.

Atticas
05-02-2016, 05:45 PM
Alright, just to catch everyone up... I recently went to the doctor's to get my testosterone checked, because I want to gauge it later in the future as I go about cycling these herbs.

From last year, it has dropped from 540 to 467, which incredibly pisses me off. According to Dr. Eugene Shippen when I visited, the normal range for someone my age should be more like 700-800.

I haven't lost hope however; This just really pissed me off.

Right now, downstairs, I've got Pine Pollen, He Shou Wu, Cistanche, Cordycep, Lions Mane, Rhodiola, Shilajit Resin, Tongkat Ali, Mucana, and Ziziphus (<< just cuz I wanted to try this one) all from SupermanHerbs.com.

Then I've got these other herbs from different sites: Ant Extract, Royal Jelly (coming in the mail).

For supplements, I've got fish oils, creatine HCL, and Athlete Vitamin (magnesium, zinc, calcium supplement with very certain amounts).

For fun, I'm already trying the herbs and feeling them out. So far Tongkat Ali + Pine Pollen makes me temporarily go fucking animal, so that's been fun.

Anyways, if any of you have suggestions on where to find a good vitamin B complex or where to find good Suma Root Extract, please let me know.

The juice fast starts in 13 days. Can't come fucking soon enough.

Atticas
05-11-2016, 10:43 PM
Update:

I should have around 14 herbs now, so near 2/3's of CDN's Test Boosting Protocol.

Ant Extract, Royal Jelly, Eleuthero, Schisandra, Pine Pollen Powder, He Shou Wu, Ashwaghanda (managed to get ahold of the new tincture kind), Cistanche, Cordycep, Lions Mane, Rhodiolia, Shilajit Rsin, Tongkat Ali, Mucana and Maca.

The only reason I say 14 instead of 15 is because my Chiropractor/Applied kinesiologist told me Rhodiola would not sit well with my adrenals right yet... so I'm just going to cycle just 14 of them for a while after coming off the juice fast and seeing what results come about.

5 more days! I believe me and Maxout777 are going to be starting our juice fasts on the same day (next Monday), so it'll be awesome to be able to track each other's progress and encourage each other through this.

Thanks for all the help you guys. Will update you again soon.

Atticas
05-16-2016, 10:05 AM
Day 1 of the fast today and I can already tell this is gonna SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK x'''D

SOOO hungry right now, but I'll live.

Gonna try and go with making about 3-4 juices a day, mixed in with all sorts of fun stuff like celery, kale, carrots, cabbage, ginger root, parsley, beats, spinach, tumeric, oranges... etc

Atticas
05-17-2016, 09:58 AM
So me and Maxouttt77 are on Day 2 of this juice fast.

Energy level is surprisingly pretty lively... yesterday was HORRIBLE though lol.

It's a good thing I pulled outta work or this would not have flied.

Give your best wishes to Max as he actually is working while doing this

Maxout777
05-17-2016, 10:00 AM
So me and Maxouttt77 are on Day 2 of this juice fast.

Energy level is surprisingly pretty lively... yesterday was HORRIBLE though lol.

It's a good thing I pulled outta work or this would not have flied.

Give your best wishes to Max as he actually is working while doing this

Best nine hours in town, ladies and gentlemen. At least it's a desk job haha.

Atticas
05-17-2016, 09:21 PM
Almost the end of Day 2 now.

Energy levels felt great pretty much all day except for when I almost dozed off while sitting at the computer around 3pm lol

Also, gotta say I slept pretty damn good last night; Let's hope tonight goes the same!

I'm actually pretty excited about continuing this fast after reading this as well earlier:

Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/)

seems like I should get a pretty nice surge of HGH throughout my body in the next coming days :D

rahaysa
05-18-2016, 05:27 AM
i did a 5.5 day juice feast (intention was 7 day) . the day 1 was so bad that i could even eat grass.. day 2 was the same . Day 3 on wards the energy burst and clarity in thoughts was worth the pain.. the craving for bad food was gone ...

one thing to note is i personally felt i went a few steps back after the feast.. nothing to worry though as i think i was cleansed to an extent ... and cleansing might also mean it takes away some progress you have achieved in past .. nevertheless its was a real good experience ..

so good that i want to do it again... i lost some unwanted flab around my waist ...

road to recover
05-18-2016, 05:53 AM
What juicer are you using?

Cdsnuts
05-18-2016, 06:22 AM
Almost the end of Day 2 now.

Energy levels felt great pretty much all day except for when I almost dozed off while sitting at the computer around 3pm lol

Also, gotta say I slept pretty damn good last night; Let's hope tonight goes the same!

I'm actually pretty excited about continuing this fast after reading this as well earlier:

Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/)

seems like I should get a pretty nice surge of HGH throughout my body in the next coming days :D

This article is in regards to a water fast, which is what they mean when they say fast....to basically go without food. With the juice feast you're not doing that. The angle of the juice feast is to provide your body with as many nutrients, vitamins and minerals as possible while minimizing digestive energy. Seeing as digestion takes up almost 50% of your bodies energy needs, the energy used packs a big punch with a low metabolic cost. The body then uses this "extra" energy, as it always does, when it can, to house clean. The end result is the same. With water fasting, it's rough, brutal and torturous but the cleanse is quicker and deeper. The juice feast allows you to go through your day (for the most part) and still get some cleansing in. Both work if you let them.

I've done 45 days of the 90 day juice feasting program and the only reason I stopped was because the two hours needed every morning to make my days ration of juice started to wear on me. That being said, make sure you're getting enough calories to go through the day comfortably. For most men that requires 4-6 quarts (mason jars) of fresh juice per day.

If you can, go for walks while feasting. Get the lymph fluid moving and help your body out.

As a side note.....for anyone who wants to experiment, I'd be curious to know how the herbs feel while doing the feast? Anyone care to try? I believe that because of the 100% plant based diet you're on right now the effects of the herbs would be felt more intimately....perhaps herbs that you didn't "feel" before would be more felt now? It couldn't hurt to give it a shot. They may even help with energy if you're having a day when you're dragging.

Maxout777
05-18-2016, 07:45 AM
This article is in regards to a water fast, which is what they mean when they say fast....to basically go without food. With the juice feast you're not doing that. The angle of the juice feast is to provide your body with as many nutrients, vitamins and minerals as possible while minimizing digestive energy. Seeing as digestion takes up almost 50% of your bodies energy needs, the energy used packs a big punch with a low metabolic cost. The body then uses this "extra" energy, as it always does, when it can, to house clean. The end result is the same. With water fasting, it's rough, brutal and torturous but the cleanse is quicker and deeper. The juice feast allows you to go through your day (for the most part) and still get some cleansing in. Both work if you let them.

I've done 45 days of the 90 day juice feasting program and the only reason I stopped was because the two hours needed every morning to make my days ration of juice started to wear on me. That being said, make sure you're getting enough calories to go through the day comfortably. For most men that requires 4-6 quarts (mason jars) of fresh juice per day.

If you can, go for walks while feasting. Get the lymph fluid moving and help your body out.

As a side note.....for anyone who wants to experiment, I'd be curious to know how the herbs feel while doing the feast? Anyone care to try? I believe that because of the 100% plant based diet you're on right now the effects of the herbs would be felt more intimately....perhaps herbs that you didn't "feel" before would be more felt now? It couldn't hurt to give it a shot. They may even help with energy if you're having a day when you're dragging.

I'm probably going to try this today. We're slammed with a pop-up project at work and I can't be dragging today. This will be my attempt to remedy that. Will report back.

Atticas
05-18-2016, 09:20 AM
This article is in regards to a water fast, which is what they mean when they say fast....to basically go without food. With the juice feast you're not doing that. The angle of the juice feast is to provide your body with as many nutrients, vitamins and minerals as possible while minimizing digestive energy. Seeing as digestion takes up almost 50% of your bodies energy needs, the energy used packs a big punch with a low metabolic cost. The body then uses this "extra" energy, as it always does, when it can, to house clean. The end result is the same. With water fasting, it's rough, brutal and torturous but the cleanse is quicker and deeper. The juice feast allows you to go through your day (for the most part) and still get some cleansing in. Both work if you let them.

I've done 45 days of the 90 day juice feasting program and the only reason I stopped was because the two hours needed every morning to make my days ration of juice started to wear on me. That being said, make sure you're getting enough calories to go through the day comfortably. For most men that requires 4-6 quarts (mason jars) of fresh juice per day.

If you can, go for walks while feasting. Get the lymph fluid moving and help your body out.

As a side note.....for anyone who wants to experiment, I'd be curious to know how the herbs feel while doing the feast? Anyone care to try? I believe that because of the 100% plant based diet you're on right now the effects of the herbs would be felt more intimately....perhaps herbs that you didn't "feel" before would be more felt now? It couldn't hurt to give it a shot. They may even help with energy if you're having a day when you're dragging.

I'm with Maxout777 on this one actually.

I'd love to give the herbs a try. We were both mentioning how well they were working for us before, I can't imagine it would be worse while juice fasting.

Atticas
05-18-2016, 09:23 AM
What juicer are you using?

Breville Juice Fountain

Atticas
05-18-2016, 09:29 AM
Also, CDN, I think it may not matter whether you're fully water cleansing or just malnourished like you would be on a juice feast.

Check this other study I found out:

Augmented growth hormone (GH) secretory burst frequency and amplitude mediate enhanced GH secretion during a two-day fast in normal men. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548337)

I definitely feel that the HGH must have something to do with the healing process.

Atticas
05-18-2016, 09:32 AM
Also, just so i'm keeping everyone updated on how I'm feeling during this juice feast (to hopefully encourage others)...

It's Day 3 for me and I feel pretty good. I've felt weak everyday, but energetic; It's weird.

My brain was definitely firing off many cylinders yesterday. Small brain fog may still be intact, but honestly I was really impressed with the performance yesterday. I'm gonna jump back on some meditation today and hopefully that will help even further.

Also, my sleep is AWESOME. I think the first night of this, I got like 7-8 hours of sleep... which normally I can only get about 6...
and then last night I woke up a few hours in... but in total, probably slept about 8+ hours.

Ooooo!! And also, also, MY BALLS ARE MOVING BABY! Even looking a bit bigger!

Atticas
05-18-2016, 10:08 PM
Alright... so around the end of day 3 was probably the worst for me.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO hungry, thinking about food over and over, and even holding the fruits and vegetables before I juiced them was super tempting because I just wanted to shove them in my mouth like a f*cking animal.

Regardless, my balls and dick are showing good response to this, and so is my sleep, which makes me think that all this fasting is definitely upping my HGH levels.

Tonight to help even further, I took 2 table spoons of Ziziphus and I'm about to give myself a 10-12 minute head massage. Gonna pass outttttttttttt

rahaysa
05-19-2016, 12:51 AM
This article is in regards to a water fast, which is what they mean when they say fast....to basically go without food. With the juice feast you're not doing that. The angle of the juice feast is to provide your body with as many nutrients, vitamins and minerals as possible while minimizing digestive energy. Seeing as digestion takes up almost 50% of your bodies energy needs, the energy used packs a big punch with a low metabolic cost. The body then uses this "extra" energy, as it always does, when it can, to house clean. The end result is the same. With water fasting, it's rough, brutal and torturous but the cleanse is quicker and deeper. The juice feast allows you to go through your day (for the most part) and still get some cleansing in. Both work if you let them.

I've done 45 days of the 90 day juice feasting program and the only reason I stopped was because the two hours needed every morning to make my days ration of juice started to wear on me. That being said, make sure you're getting enough calories to go through the day comfortably. For most men that requires 4-6 quarts (mason jars) of fresh juice per day.

If you can, go for walks while feasting. Get the lymph fluid moving and help your body out.

As a side note.....for anyone who wants to experiment, I'd be curious to know how the herbs feel while doing the feast? Anyone care to try? I believe that because of the 100% plant based diet you're on right now the effects of the herbs would be felt more intimately....perhaps herbs that you didn't "feel" before would be more felt now? It couldn't hurt to give it a shot. They may even help with energy if you're having a day when you're dragging.

Hi CD .. i have used herbs while Juice feasting... i had used them 2 weeks prior to going into Juice feast .. so i can definitely say that they did give that energy boost... i was using PIne pollen powder everyday and rotating other herbs along with it ... i dint get the Morning wood on pine pollen yet... but one day on my 4th day of Juice feast i consumed 10gm of pine pollen and 2.5g of horny goat weed from SMH.. i got a very very hard raging nocturnal wood that night ... i am not able to replicate that success again... but that wood was so strong that it hurt and i had to get up and hold my Penis for about 10 min before it subsided ...

Atticas
05-19-2016, 08:12 AM
@Rahaysa... I gotta try that shit hahaha I don't have the ED problem from Propecia, but I don't wake up with crazy hard wood either.

Anyways, wanted to update you guys again..

Last night did not go as well as hoped.

I ended up waking up mid-8 hours and had trouble going back to sleep for a while because of how hungry I was. Nevertheless, I still got like 8 hours of sleep again which I haven't TOUCHED in almost a year and 6 months.

Energy today feels like all the other days; I'm energetic, but just feel physically weak.... kind of walking funny lol

Anyways, the herbs are definitely fun to experiment while doing this. Yesterday, I was fairly stressed out over some girl I've been trying to talk to.... took some maca + and some tinctured Ashwaghanda and was like fuck that hahahaha felt a whole lot better

Today, I'm gonna switch to water fasting, but continue to take the herbs. Let's hope this starts working!!

Atticas
05-19-2016, 09:57 PM
Maxouttt77 and I are finally going onto our 5th day of fasting starting soon here.

It's been rough, and I've lost probably near 5-7lbs, but I feel I may be making some improvement here.

Energy level is there, sleep is getting better, and i've seen my dick and balls go back to some great, normal looking sizes.

For CDN's curiousity, yes, the herbs work GREAT while on this fast (well, everything so far for me except Ziziphus) and I would definitely encourage others who want to go down this path to begin using them two or three days into the fast.

GOD, I can't wait for this to be over. I WANT FOOD SO BADDD!! xD

Atticas
05-22-2016, 11:41 AM
So my fast is over.

Interesting, interesting things have happened... I'm not sure all what to make of it.

In short, it seems like my body thinks it's going through a 2nd puberty.

At some point either during or after my fast, my back, face and neck broke out with acne BAD, and my balls and dick began going back to normal, pre-PFS size, then back to being shriveled again.

This is seriously weird. I almost haven't had acne this bad on my face since I was a teenager.

rahaysa
05-22-2016, 11:48 AM
while juice feasting ...my balls went back to normal and shriveled up again.. dont know what to make out of it either

Atticas
06-05-2016, 09:46 AM
A little update...

Balls and penis size still getting better on some days... It's great to see them almost entirely back to normal again, even if it is just for spurts of time.

I never really suffered from the ED part of PFS, but I will say those herbs are making my erections harder. That shit is crazy. I gave it to some of my buddies and they both reported getting horny as hell and masturbating shortly after haha

My face and skin quality is one of my major concerns still.. Skin not healing well and the damage done from Finasteride doesn't seem to be going away. I still have dark circles and loose facial skin..

I'm really hoping this will pass or get better to some degree. I used to have great, tight skin before all this.

Atticas
06-06-2016, 06:27 PM
Just read Maxout777's last post and figured I should keep you guys updated on my daily routine as well:

The herbs I'm taking are:
Tongkat Ali
Pine Pollen Tincture (daily)
Pine Pollen
Maral Root
Cordyceps
Ashwaghanda Tincture
Cistanche
He Shou Wu
Mucuna
Ant Extract
Schisandra
Maca
Shilajit Resin
Eleuthero

Supplements:
Citadel Nutrition's Athlete Vitamin (mix of calcium, vitamin D, magnesium, Vitamin K and Zinc)
Creatine HCL
Fish Oils

Other measures for recovery:
Intermittent fasting most days of the week
Meditation
Drinking lots of water
Juicing everyday with things like Asparagus, Beets, Celery, Spinache, and a random fruit
Working out using Layne Norton's PHAT routine
Taking cold showers to boost test
Getting sun when i'm able
Making positive changes in my life/challenging myself to keep a positive, ongoing mindset

To all those that are supporting me through this, thank you. All 2 of you or so since I chewed out CDN. Great community.

Atticas
06-15-2016, 10:37 PM
Alright, so it's been about a week or more since my last post on here.

Update:

Improvements ----- So I'm seeing some positive changes come about. My energy is definitely higher than it was months ago, i'm putting on muscle literally by the day, my genitals have been appearing normal sized more and more often, and the stubborn belly fat I developed with PFS almost, almost seemed like it was fading a bit.

What still needs work ------ my facial skin is still suffering and not recovering as fast as it used to, but that's pretty much been the norm since developing PFS. Sleep is also pretty hit and miss, but I will say getting myself to block out pretty much any light from getting in my room, as well as sleeping naked, has made sleep really easy for me when I need it.

Let's hope this continues working! :D

5 alpha victim
06-16-2016, 03:16 PM
Alright, so it's been about a week or more since my last post on here.

Update:

Improvements ----- So I'm seeing some positive changes come about. My energy is definitely higher than it was months ago, i'm putting on muscle literally by the day, my genitals have been appearing normal sized more and more often, and the stubborn belly fat I developed with PFS almost, almost seemed like it was fading a bit.

What still needs work ------ my facial skin is still suffering and not recovering as fast as it used to, but that's pretty much been the norm since developing PFS. Sleep is also pretty hit and miss, but I will say getting myself to block out pretty much any light from getting in my room, as well as sleeping naked, has made sleep really easy for me when I need it.

Let's hope this continues working! :D

How long did you go for in total ? How did switching over to water only in the middle of it work out for you ?

Atticas
06-16-2016, 07:53 PM
How long did you go for in total ? How did switching over to water only in the middle of it work out for you ?

5 days. 3 days juice fast, 2 days water fast.

Switching over to water SUCKED. Like, with the juice fast, at least you get some energy from the juice, but with water, YOU JUST SIT THERE and feel like you're going to die all day lol

I think the biggest things the fast does for you is clear out your system a bit, give your body great nutrients, and give you a huge boost in HGH.

That being said, I now do things on a regular basis to boost testosterone and HGH and I think that alone is doing a great number on any recovery I may be experiencing. That and herbs, forsure.

Snell1234
06-16-2016, 10:00 PM
How much of an improvement do you feel you have got from the herbs? I have a few sitting at home but I haven't tried them yet as last time I took tribulus it caused a major crash.

Atticas
06-17-2016, 05:24 PM
How much of an improvement do you feel you have got from the herbs? I have a few sitting at home but I haven't tried them yet as last time I took tribulus it caused a major crash.

Man, the herbs work for surrrre. My energy, libido and dick size are all doing fiiiiiine since being on that stuff. The brain clarity is still hit or miss for me, but that may be possibly due to the sleep problems I'm still going through from time to time.

I definitely recommend it

Snell1234
06-17-2016, 06:25 PM
Which ones in particular did you get the most from?

Atticas
06-18-2016, 03:39 AM
Which ones in particular did you get the most from?

Pine Pollen Tincture alongside Tongkat Ali are probably the two herbs I saw the strongest/fastest results with.

I let like 4 people try my PP Tincture.... 1 of them reporting more energy, 1 reporting random boners, and 2 reporting getting massively horny (1 of which actually told me he could stop using Cialis now after using it a couple times)

It gave me harder morning wood and just erections in general for a while, as well as seemingly improving my well being in general.

The Tongkat Ali tastes like the inside of raw baboon anus; That stuff is straight up disgusting. HOWEVER, that being said, it seems to make you pretty aggressive, seemed to boost my energy, and seemed to counter act my body's adaption to pine pollen tincture after I had taken it for like a month straight (by the end of the month, it didn't seem to react as strong with my body and almost seemed like it could have possibly been taking a turn in the opposite direction).

All in all, the herbs work... that, working out, and intermittent fasting are doing some crazy stuff for me.

If I could just get my sleep and tight skin back!!! But we'll see in time

Atticas
06-21-2016, 06:25 AM
Alright, so I've been speaking with Maxoutt777 and I believe the last big step I'm missing here is taking the prohormone CDN has mentioned.

He's reported good results with it so far, and the part that really interested me was the fact that he reported good side effects with his skin (one of the things I'm always complaining about)

To me, this is one of the last missing puzzle pieces. I'm getting my sleep back, I'm getting my energy back, I'm getting my dick size back and the fat in my lower abdomen appears to barely exist anymore. The last piece I want to fix is my skin, and I think the raise in DHT will help with thickness, oil, repair and hopefully tightness again.

I'm very wary to take a prohormone as I've always wanted to be more of a natural type lifter, but at this point in my life, I just want to get back to normal. So eventually.... I believe I will be buying Super R-Andro RX.

Once I do, I will report back here as well as update everyone on my results.

Atticas
06-26-2016, 08:08 AM
So... update.

I've officially decided I will not be partaking in using the pro-hormone CD mentioned.

You guys for fun can compare me and Maxoutt777's results here in the forums, as we had both basically done the exact same regime up to this point.

The reason I refuse to take a PH for now is because I want no one to look at me, my gains, and my health, and point to steroids as the way I achieved it. When people see the shape I'm in and the kind of person I am, I want them to realize I'm an animal with or without steroids... not, "Oh, well he only achieved that kind of body/health because of steroids".

So for now, I will be continuing taking herbs, creatine HCL, manipulating HGH through intermittent fasting, meditating, working out, taking cold showers, juicing from time to time, and will probably be introducing a sleep agent because that is still one area of recovery I'm lacking in.

My wit has gone up, my motivation has gone up, my strength has gone up, my lower abdominal fat seemed to have diminished a little bit even though I'm bulking, and I've been waking up with morning wood on a pretty regular basis now and am going to go get my test checked soon again (was 470ish I think 2-3 months ago).

I think I can do this guys. Stay tuned.

Brazilianguy
06-29-2016, 11:43 AM
So... update.

I've officially decided I will not be partaking in using the pro-hormone CD mentioned.

You guys for fun can compare me and Maxoutt777's results here in the forums, as we had both basically done the exact same regime up to this point.

The reason I refuse to take a PH for now is because I want no one to look at me, my gains, and my health, and point to steroids as the way I achieved it. When people see the shape I'm in and the kind of person I am, I want them to realize I'm an animal with or without steroids... not, "Oh, well he only achieved that kind of body/health because of steroids".

So for now, I will be continuing taking herbs, creatine HCL, manipulating HGH through intermittent fasting, meditating, working out, taking cold showers, juicing from time to time, and will probably be introducing a sleep agent because that is still one area of recovery I'm lacking in.

My wit has gone up, my motivation has gone up, my strength has gone up, my lower abdominal fat seemed to have diminished a little bit even though I'm bulking, and I've been waking up with morning wood on a pretty regular basis now and am going to go get my test checked soon again (was 470ish I think 2-3 months ago).

I think I can do this guys. Stay tuned.

I think you made the best decision man. Keep doing what you're doing. Maybe you should stop herbs for a month and then take again. I also don't think it's a good idea to take anything for sleep, it will eventually get better with your protocol.

If you want you can call me on Skype. Joocar2 is my address.
Following cdnuts protocol is the way to reverse pfs. I achieved 75% once and then I started taking progesterone cream thinking that would accelerate my recovery, huge mistake.

The herbs stopped working for me, so I decided to stop and restart later to see if I will improve even more.

Atticas
07-02-2016, 07:24 PM
I think you made the best decision man. Keep doing what you're doing. Maybe you should stop herbs for a month and then take again. I also don't think it's a good idea to take anything for sleep, it will eventually get better with your protocol.

If you want you can call me on Skype. Joocar2 is my address.
Following cdnuts protocol is the way to reverse pfs. I achieved 75% once and then I started taking progesterone cream thinking that would accelerate my recovery, huge mistake.

The herbs stopped working for me, so I decided to stop and restart later to see if I will improve even more.

Appreciate all of that man! I think I took down my skype, but I can put it back up easy.

And yea... I was gonna use a sleep supplement Maxoutt777 recommended, but then found out i'm allergic to like 1-3 of the ingredients in it... so that was probably wasted money lol now I'm just gonna keep trying to sleep how I regularly have been doing...
NAKED, COLD, AND WITH THE ROOM DARK AF :D

I definitely wanna continue on the herbs; They've given me feats of energy I haven't had in a WHIIIIIIILE and I think they may have also healed up my adrenals really well again as I'm able to take caffeine without shutting down now. I'm also putting on weight and muscle by the week and it's freaking awesome.

I feel so close!!!! Can I please just get my face, skin and sleep back to normal xD

Brazilianguy
07-03-2016, 04:04 AM
Appreciate all of that man! I think I took down my skype, but I can put it back up easy.

And yea... I was gonna use a sleep supplement Maxoutt777 recommended, but then found out i'm allergic to like 1-3 of the ingredients in it... so that was probably wasted money lol now I'm just gonna keep trying to sleep how I regularly have been doing...
NAKED, COLD, AND WITH THE ROOM DARK AF :D

I definitely wanna continue on the herbs; They've given me feats of energy I haven't had in a WHIIIIIIILE and I think they may have also healed up my adrenals really well again as I'm able to take caffeine without shutting down now. I'm also putting on weight and muscle by the week and it's freaking awesome.

I feel so close!!!! Can I please just get my face, skin and sleep back to normal xD

I know How you feel, I think sleep is going to improve with The herbs too. Mine is a little bit strange too, but I'm getting morning wood more and more often, but its like I wake up in The middle of The night with morning wood. I reached a very close recovery once and I remember that this is The first sign of morning wood appearing, then it will be closer and closer to The time you actually wake up, this is The same thing with The sleep, it will sincronize to only One waking up and with a strong morning wood.

TubZy
08-29-2016, 11:36 AM
So... update.

I've officially decided I will not be partaking in using the pro-hormone CD mentioned.

You guys for fun can compare me and Maxoutt777's results here in the forums, as we had both basically done the exact same regime up to this point.

The reason I refuse to take a PH for now is because I want no one to look at me, my gains, and my health, and point to steroids as the way I achieved it. When people see the shape I'm in and the kind of person I am, I want them to realize I'm an animal with or without steroids... not, "Oh, well he only achieved that kind of body/health because of steroids".

So for now, I will be continuing taking herbs, creatine HCL, manipulating HGH through intermittent fasting, meditating, working out, taking cold showers, juicing from time to time, and will probably be introducing a sleep agent because that is still one area of recovery I'm lacking in.

My wit has gone up, my motivation has gone up, my strength has gone up, my lower abdominal fat seemed to have diminished a little bit even though I'm bulking, and I've been waking up with morning wood on a pretty regular basis now and am going to go get my test checked soon again (was 470ish I think 2-3 months ago).

I think I can do this guys. Stay tuned.

You are not taking a prohormone cause you a worried someone may think you are on "steroids" whether than actually caring about fully recovering from PFS?...really....who the hell cares at this point..are you sure you even have PFS?

markuss
08-30-2016, 09:40 AM
Hey guys I'm on the protocol too but can't use the R-andro anymore because it causes my gums to recede... I used it a while ago and the same thing happened. I have 2 unopened bottles that I can sell to anyone, name your price. Other than that I'm seeing slow progress with the herbs, have around 20 now. Do you guys think I should use Andractim as a substitue to the R-andro? Any suggestions would be appreciated

Maxout777
08-30-2016, 09:46 AM
Hey guys I'm on the protocol too but can't use the R-andro anymore because it causes my gums to recede... I used it a while ago and the same thing happened. I have 2 unopened bottles that I can sell to anyone, name your price. Other than that I'm seeing slow progress with the herbs, have around 20 now. Do you guys think I should use Andractim as a substitue to the R-andro? Any suggestions would be appreciated

Maybe try Epi-Andro as a substitute to the R-Andro. That's odd that you mention that because I'm pretty sure I noticed the same thing. But they appear to be back to normal after using it......I did use to use smokeless tobacco as well, so could just be my mind playing tricks with me. My gums look fine at the moment though.

markuss
08-30-2016, 12:06 PM
Mine are still receded from my last cycle, probably one of the few to get side effects from it. I'll look in to Epi-Andro and Andractim for now.

Atticas
11-23-2016, 07:35 AM
+6 Month Update for Everyone:

So I took CDNuts advice for the most part (minus the prohormones and cutting alcohol entirely) for a few months and saw some pretty nice improvements. The fast + herbs combo gave me enough energy to hit the gym gradually again, slowly. I felt tired and fatigued at first, but my body adapted overtime like it always used to, and now, I've become almost stronger than I ever was (give me one more month ;] ). My sleep has also improved for the most part... every few weeks or so I'll get a random spurt of insomnia where I only sleep like 5 hours... but normally it's back to like 6.5-8 again, which is really nice. And for those of you who actually followed me will remember, I never actually suffered from the ED part of PFS, so I still have been able to perform whenever the time arose, and that hasn't changed. I will say though, if you do suffer from that, those herbs will probably do something for you, as they made me even hornier and harder than normal, and I used them at one point to help elevate my test levels back up nearly 150-200 points, alongside meditation, working out, and cold showers.

Things I still currently suffer from are minor brainfog, testicular shrinkage, penile shrinkage (when flaccid), loose facial skin, and dark circles under eyes.

I think i'm continuing to improve now overtime (at least hopeful), but still not sure what part of the puzzle I'm missing. My face and balls seem to be the only real, daily reminder that my body still isn't full recovered yet. I'm convinced CDsNuts protocol works for some, but not all, not based on just my case (because obviously I haven't followed it 100% to the T), but from hearing other's experiences as well. Even if it doesn't fullllllly heal all of you though, I'd def. recommend at the LEAST trying the juice or water fast, cycling some herbs, doing daily meditation, getting some sort of gut testing done (I personally did a stool analysis test), as well as seeing if you may have any food allergies you don't know of. I went and got checked and found out I was allergic to a couple different things I had no idea were not agreeing with my body. Everything in my current protocol, I KNOW will help most anyone reading this though. There's pretty much no harm in any of this unless you're allergic to something I mention, or you suffer from injury/some bodily handicap that won't allow you to exercise.

Anyways, my current regimen is basically:
> working out 4-5 days a week
> preparing myself for adequate sleep (basically trying to go to bed around the same time, and making sure I'll at least get 7-8 hours in)
> meditation or head massages (12-15 minutes daily)
> eating probiotic type foods (kombucha, sauerkraut)
> gluten free, dairy free, grain free (minus white rice), corn free diet (corn is an allergy of mine. You might not have to take it that extreme)
> organic type soap
> No shampoo (chemicals all up INNNNNN dat ish. Probably part of the reason you started losing hair in the first place!)
> organic type deodorant
> filtered or spring water

Finally kicking alcohol out for good these days and gonna try and purchase some more good probiotic pills as well to go along with this. Any other suggestions you guys would give me?

Cdsnuts
11-23-2016, 08:51 AM
It always seems to not work fully for the people who don't do it 100%.....shocker

It was designed the way it was for a reason. It always works for people who work it. For the people who pick and choose what parts they are going to do, they get what they decide to put in.

You yourself are only a few months in and have a nice long list of benefits. Imagine going all in for a year.

As I always say, you get what you put in. The program can't not work....it's based on the fundamental laws of nature. Your body has no choice but to heal if you adhere long enough.

The guys that say it doesn't work are always the guys that aren't doing it correctly.....always.

Cdsnuts
11-23-2016, 11:58 AM
In regards to your brain fog.... You need to check out the Wim Hof method. it's meditation on steroids and works much quicker then the traditional meditation technique. It works even better then holosync, imo. Add this breathing exercise to your daily regimen preferable first thing in the morning before having your herbs and caffeine and then another time later on in the afternoon.

Concerning everything else....just keep doing what you're doing and it will sort itself out. This of course if you quit alcohol for the time being as well. You know that is absolutely the worst thing for your sleep patterns anyway.

Atticas
11-23-2016, 04:27 PM
In regards to your brain fog.... You need to check out the Wim Hof method. it's meditation on steroids and works much quicker then the traditional meditation technique. It works even better then holosync, imo. Add this breathing exercise to your daily regimen preferable first thing in the morning before having your herbs and caffeine and then another time later on in the afternoon.

Concerning everything else....just keep doing what you're doing and it will sort itself out. This of course if you quit alcohol for the time being as well. You know that is absolutely the worst thing for your sleep patterns anyway.

I'm definitely gonna work to cut out alcohol entirely for a few months now. I was scared to before cuz of my friend circle, but I've kind of distanced myself now and it'll be a lot less tempting.

And sure thing man! I'll check out the wim hof tonight. Meditation has been great for me as it is

Cdsnuts
11-23-2016, 04:59 PM
I'm definitely gonna work to cut out alcohol entirely for a few months now. I was scared to before cuz of my friend circle, but I've kind of distanced myself now and it'll be a lot less tempting.

And sure thing man! I'll check out the wim hof tonight. Meditation has been great for me as it is

This is going to take it to the next level, for sure.

And I find when people don't put an arbitrary timeline on their alcohol abstinence it tends to go much smoother. You don't want to make up a time frame of a couple months and then you're kind of just waiting for that time to get there...it almost takes you out of the moment. You may only need a couple months or you may need longer.

Atticas
11-24-2016, 11:09 AM
Btw CDN, I noticed you mentioned taking caffeine.

Was that just assuming that most everyone drinks coffee during the day or do you recommend a certain amount of caffeine every morning

Cdsnuts
11-24-2016, 11:55 AM
Btw CDN, I noticed you mentioned taking caffeine.

Was that just assuming that most everyone drinks coffee during the day or do you recommend a certain amount of caffeine every morning

Taking a small amount of caffeine with your herbs on an empty stomach really helps kick start the effects. If you can't handle caffeine, then stay away from it. Depending on where guys with their anxiety, some can take it, and some can't

Atticas
12-02-2016, 11:27 PM
Hey CDN, quick question for you concerning the Wim Hof Method..

When he says the breathing exercise can be repeated for 3 rounds, does he mean start over and do the 30 deep breathes over again, or is he just referring to the long end breath where you hold your breathe for 10 seconds?

Cdsnuts
12-03-2016, 02:37 PM
Hey CDN, quick question for you concerning the Wim Hof Method..

When he says the breathing exercise can be repeated for 3 rounds, does he mean start over and do the 30 deep breathes over again, or is he just referring to the long end breath where you hold your breathe for 10 seconds?

One round is composed of the 30-40 deep breathes, the exhale and hold, and then the big deep breath in and hold.....THAT is one round. One complete exercise is three of these rounds although I like to do four or five in a row to get me to my happy place.

You can do it for an hour or more, over and over and over again. I like to do that once or twice a week if I have the time. It's amazing.

Atticas
02-04-2017, 09:04 AM
Ok, so just to update everyone... thanks to user TubZy, I am now taking DHEA/Pregnenolone/5a-DHP, which all have different benefits for us. You can read more about Preg and 5a-DHP in this thread:

5a-DHP (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3113-5a-dhp.html)

Anyways, I will admit, I have been slacking on the herbs, water, meditation and gym lately.

My mind has been kind of shifted elsewhere recently as I now have a gf I've been dating for about 2 1/2 weeks. She's been great for my self-esteem though I will say, and my depression is definitely lifted.

But now that she's in the picture, I've kind of been even more encouraged to lift this curse so to speak lol so today, I'm buying the old gallon of water, gonna take an herb, take those supps, and try to start this off again stronger than before.

Wish me luck! And as always, feel free to leave me any words of advice

Atticas
02-04-2017, 09:06 AM
^^^^ Following this message, I will also speak on where my results are so far after how long i've used the herbs and now introducing these new supps:

Better sleep (while taking Glycine at night) and better memory/cognitive function.

Skin quality is still not great, and testicles still shrunken, but I have hope this will pass someday soon as well.

Cdsnuts
02-04-2017, 09:32 AM
^^^^ Following this message, I will also speak on where my results are so far after how long i've used the herbs and now introducing these new supps:

Better sleep (while taking Glycine at night) and better memory/cognitive function.

Skin quality is still not great, and testicles still shrunken, but I have hope this will pass someday soon as well.

You realize you're running exogenous hormones, right? You know that is going to have an effect on testicular size and natural output.....right?

It is also somewhat counter productive to run hormones and herbs at the same time. Pick one or the other. You're just not going to get all from the herbs while running any kind of hormones regardless how "light" they may be.

Good news on the woman. That can only help your situation.

Atticas
02-04-2017, 10:31 AM
You realize you're running exogenous hormones, right? You know that is going to have an effect on testicular size and natural output.....right?

It is also somewhat counter productive to run hormones and herbs at the same time. Pick one or the other. You're just not going to get all from the herbs while running any kind of hormones regardless how "light" they may be.

Good news on the woman. That can only help your situation.

Was not aware taking light exogenous hormones would really effect testicular size that much. I'm very new to taking any kind of hormones, you know that x''D

And I thought you were basically recommending me continue with the herbs while taking this other stuff? Must have took it out of context.

Would you recommend me doing say a month on this stuff then, and then a month off or something like that?

Cdsnuts
02-04-2017, 10:37 AM
Was not aware taking light exogenous hormones would really effect testicular size that much. I'm very new to taking any kind of hormones, you know that x''D

And I thought you were basically recommending me continue with the herbs while taking this other stuff? Must have took it out of context.

Would you recommend me doing say a month on this stuff then, and then a month off or something like that?
If you're intent on running the hormones then yes, it would make more sense than running them concurrently.

And your testicles are already somewhat atrophied according to you, so yes, every little bit makes a difference.

Running any kind of hormones isn't going to help add size to your testicles.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Atticas
02-04-2017, 10:59 AM
If you're intent on running the hormones then yes, it would make more sense than running them concurrently.

And your testicles are already somewhat atrophied according to you, so yes, every little bit makes a difference.

Running any kind of hormones isn't going to help add size to your testicles.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Yea, I mean looking at everything TubZy's posted, I'm definitely gonna run this stuff for at least a month, then I'll come off and cycle the herbs again.

Looking forward to seeing more improvement 😁 Thank you both for all your knowledge and help so far

rmoore
02-10-2017, 08:30 AM
I started the herb rotation this week and also take preg (70 mg) with breakfast and thyroid glandular (3) from forefront to boost my low thyroid. Waking temp is 96.9 and pulse is 46. is this OK to take along with cycling the herbs? I also follow a Ray Peat diet.

Cdsnuts
02-10-2017, 08:37 AM
I started the herb rotation this week and also take preg (70 mg) with breakfast and thyroid glandular (3) from forefront to boost my low thyroid. Waking temp is 96.9 and pulse is 46. is this OK to take along with cycling the herbs? I also follow a Ray Peat diet.

My opinion is that you either run the herbs, or run exogenous hormones in cycles. Not both simultaneously. If you guys want to use your time and experiment and see what happens, then go for it. I never used preg. to heal. That's not saying it can't help....mind you.

I can only speak for my experiences and the experiences of others that followed a similar path.

Atticas
02-10-2017, 09:02 PM
My opinion is that you either run the herbs, or run exogenous hormones in cycles. Not both simultaneously. If you guys want to use your time and experiment and see what happens, then go for it. I never used preg. to heal. That's not saying it can't help....mind you.

I can only speak for my experiences and the experiences of others that followed a similar path.

I honestly think I'm about to do kinna like Maxout777 and just start taking the 5a-DHP in 30mg dosages per day, then stack that with the preg, caffeine, and DHEA.

I haven't really seen any promising results as far as my skin goes yet, but I have noticed some cool size return to my genitals from time to time, my sleep has been awesome, my energy is fine, and I've stopped yawning more and more which was seriously a very annoying problem for me (used to yawn literally what felt like 30-40 times per day).

Libido is still fine... and having a girlfriend, not watching any porn and not masturbating has DEFINITELY been helping make sure that isn't dying out anytime soon.

Maxout777
02-10-2017, 09:23 PM
I honestly think I'm about to do kinna like Maxout777 and just start taking the 5a-DHP in 30mg dosages per day, then stack that with the preg, caffeine, and DHEA.

I haven't really seen any promising results as far as my skin goes yet, but I have noticed some cool size return to my genitals from time to time, my sleep has been awesome, my energy is fine, and I've stopped yawning more and more which was seriously a very annoying problem for me (used to yawn literally what felt like 30-40 times per day).

Libido is still fine... and having a girlfriend, not watching any porn and not masturbating has DEFINITELY been helping make sure that isn't dying out anytime soon.
Do you have me mixed up with someone else? I'm not on preg or DHEA and I only take 5mg per day of 5a-DHP. Small doses seem to work best with it......It's definitely a mental boost but I don't consider it necessary. If you have the funds, use it.

Atticas
02-10-2017, 10:51 PM
Do you have me mixed up with someone else? I'm not on preg or DHEA and I only take 5mg per day of 5a-DHP. Small doses seem to work best with it......It's definitely a mental boost but I don't consider it necessary. If you have the funds, use it.

I just meant the high does of 5a-DHP part xD My bad..

And yea! I could have sworn you said you were taking like 30mg a day for a while...

Well whatever.. I know I wanna try a higher dosage anyway, cuz although I feel like I might be seeing some smallllll results off of this, I wonder if upping the dosage would make me feel that much better.

Probably gonna order like two more bottles of 5a-DHP and run it heavy for the rest of the month.

Maxout777
02-10-2017, 10:55 PM
I just meant the high does of 5a-DHP part xD My bad..

And yea! I could have sworn you said you were taking like 30mg a day for a while...

Well whatever.. I know I wanna try a higher dosage anyway, cuz although I feel like I might be seeing some smallllll results off of this, I wonder if upping the dosage would make me feel that much better.

Probably gonna order like two more bottles of 5a-DHP and run it heavy for the rest of the month.
Ah, yeah I tried it at a high dosage for a few days. Made me too tired and felt like it wasn't doing much else so I dropped it back down. Worth trying to see how you feel. Just be aware if it makes you feel like I did. TOO relaxed haha.

Atticas
02-11-2017, 08:45 AM
Ah, yeah I tried it at a high dosage for a few days. Made me too tired and felt like it wasn't doing much else so I dropped it back down. Worth trying to see how you feel. Just be aware if it makes you feel like I did. TOO relaxed haha.

How's your progress been going nowadays?

I tried to message you but it said your inbox was full.

Always cool to see how you're doing since we pretty much started CDN's routine around the same time

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 09:05 AM
How's your progress been going nowadays?

I tried to message you but it said your inbox was full.

Always cool to see how you're doing since we pretty much started CDN's routine around the same time

Atticus....I wouldn't say that you're fully doing the routine. It's an all or nothing venture....not a piece meal thing and not modified. The results come about by fully immersing yourself in EVERY part of it.

This is a point of contention with myself and other guys that do one or two pieces, don't get the results they want, and then they go around saying that it didn't work. Well....of course it didn't work. You didn't do it. You did what you wanted to out of it....that's not doing the protocol. That's doing pieces of the protocol and it's not the same thing.

Maxout is fully immersed. HE is doing the protocol.

Maxout777
02-11-2017, 11:48 AM
How's your progress been going nowadays?

I tried to message you but it said your inbox was full.

Always cool to see how you're doing since we pretty much started CDN's routine around the same time

I'd say I'm hovering around 80-90% with some residual stuff that comes and goes. Very little of my time is spent thinking about it though, so it's more of an afterthought at this point.

That's weird that my inbox is full.....Guess that explains why the torrent of PMs from people has halted lol.

Atticas
02-11-2017, 12:26 PM
Atticus....I wouldn't say that you're fully doing the routine. It's an all or nothing venture....not a piece meal thing and not modified. The results come about by fully immersing yourself in EVERY part of it.

This is a point of contention with myself and other guys that do one or two pieces, don't get the results they want, and then they go around saying that it didn't work. Well....of course it didn't work. You didn't do it. You did what you wanted to out of it....that's not doing the protocol. That's doing pieces of the protocol and it's not the same thing.

Maxout is fully immersed. HE is doing the protocol.

I'm just gonna be honest with you man, I do not honestly believe you have found the holy grail here lol I believe you found a good routine for yourself that certainly helps some get better and even full ends PFS for others, but to sit there and say "WELL, the reason you're not healed is because you didn't do exactly everything I said the way I said it!" when we as a community still don't completely understand everything PFS has done to our bodies (even the healed ones) or all the symptoms we all currently have (because some of us had different underlying problems that others didn't) comes off as a little arrogant/ignorant to me from a scientific perspective.

That being said, parts of your routine have helped me feel better, and I did appreciate your links to Supermanherbs (now LostEmpireHerbs) which holds a lot of high quality stuff that helped me out a lot. So i still thank you for that, but excuse me if I don't find every last iota of your routine necessary or even the end-all of what I'd need to recover. I did a juice/water fast and still do hold to a lot of the routine however, like meditation, hydrating, taking the herbs when I'm not on exogenous hormones, laying off alcohol (for the most part now), eating gluten/dairy/grain/corn/cane sugar-free, and getting decent sleep. Currently taking a break from lifting, but that'll be implemented back in shortly as well. (Btw, to anyone reading this, the only reason I'm so extreme about the diet are my food allergies... not saying CDN ever mentioned you had to go THAT extreme with it)

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 01:04 PM
I'm just gonna be honest with you man, I do not honestly believe you have found the holy grail here lol I believe you found a good routine for yourself that certainly helps some get better and even full ends PFS for others, but to sit there and say "WELL, the reason you're not healed is because you didn't do exactly everything I said the way I said it!" when we as a community still don't completely understand everything PFS has done to our bodies (even the healed ones) or all the symptoms we all currently have (because some of us had different underlying problems that others didn't) comes off as a little arrogant/ignorant to me from a scientific perspective.

That being said, parts of your routine have helped me feel better, and I did appreciate your links to Supermanherbs (now LostEmpireHerbs) which holds a lot of high quality stuff that helped me out a lot. So i still thank you for that, but excuse me if I don't find every last iota of your routine necessary or even the end-all of what I'd need to recover. I did a juice/water fast and still do hold to a lot of the routine however, like meditation, hydrating, taking the herbs when I'm not on exogenous hormones, laying off alcohol (for the most part now), eating gluten/dairy/grain/corn/cane sugar-free, and getting decent sleep. Currently taking a break from lifting, but that'll be implemented back in shortly as well. (Btw, to anyone reading this, the only reason I'm so extreme about the diet are my food allergies... not saying CDN ever mentioned you had to go THAT extreme with it)

The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

5 alpha victim
02-11-2017, 03:11 PM
My opinion is that you either run the herbs, or run exogenous hormones in cycles. Not both simultaneously. If you guys want to use your time and experiment and see what happens, then go for it. I never used preg. to heal. That's not saying it can't help....mind you.

I can only speak for my experiences and the experiences of others that followed a similar path.



Hey man how's it going

Its clear that you advise to never cycle the herbs on a DHT prohormone cycle. It's also clear that the herb cycling is not advised if one was to take preg.

 I know that the 5a-DHP has potential but it's still new and we are kinda watching it unfold. I am curious to know what you think thus far about herb cycling while running a course of 5a DHP. I ask because I just dropped like  $350 at lost empire and once they arrive I'll be up to about fifteen or so of the twenty three recommended on your website. I'm trying to decide if I should hold off on starting to cycle them or if I should just start them now during this 5a DHP trial. I'm thinking maybe seeing that 5a DHP is not really a traditional exogenous hormone run?

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 03:13 PM
Hey man how's it going

Its clear that you advise to never cycle the herbs on a DHT prohormone cycle. It's also clear that the herb cycling is not advised if one was to take preg.

 I know that the 5a-DHP has potential but it's still new and we are kinda watching it unfold. I am curious to know what you think thus far about herb cycling while running a course of 5a DHP. I ask because I just dropped like  $350 at lost empire and once they arrive I'll be up to about fifteen or so of the twenty three recommended on your website. I'm trying to decide if I should hold off on starting to cycle them or if I should just start them now during this 5a DHP.

I see no reason why you couldn't run the 5a-DHP with the herbs. It's mechanism of action is different then traditional exogenous hormones and will not be suppressive at all.

5 alpha victim
02-11-2017, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=Cdsnuts;52120]I see no reason why you couldn't run the 5a-DHP with the herbs. It's mechanism of action is different then traditional exogenous hormones and will not be suppressive at all.[/QUOTE

Awesome!
I'm going with that plan than.

I was also considering starting a thread to discuss anything related to info on your website..figured I'd hold off for a little while just in case anyone planned on doing that already and had their own ideas on how they where going to do it or what they planned on calling the thread ect ect ...

Atticas
02-11-2017, 03:22 PM
The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless though, you've inspired me a bit today. I had completely forgotten about the magnesium and B-complexes you had mentioned, so I just picked those up as well and am going to throw those into my routine now as well.

Basically, all I was saying was this man, until we really know how this all goes down, I think it's a little over-assumptive to act like this routine will rid anyone of PFS and that every little portion of it is completely necessary

Maxout777
02-11-2017, 03:29 PM
I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.
I do carb back loading.....And just yesterday I had lunch with a family member who said, "I told my wife I needed to get with you and figure out what you've been doing over the last six months diet wise because it's obviously working when looking at you". That's all the proof I needed that it works.

Or you could just try it yourself and stick to it for a month and see where it gets you. Same with pro hormone usage...you said you didn't want to use it because you wanted people to think you're a "beast" all natural and no PEDs. Why do you give an honest fuck what other people think? I couldn't give two fucks if someone knew I was using PEDs normally, and ESPECIALLY given that I'm using them to get my life back. Why don't you just try it?

I'm not trying to be an ass my man, but some of these posts just scream that you're looking for reasons NOT to do something instead of just trying it for yourself. I find it really absurd that you're concerned about carb back loading and using pro hormones yet you'll use alcohol all during your attempted recovery knowing it's a powerful hormonal and neurosteroid modulator. Doesn't make much sense to me, but just my .02.

Don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give you a little tough love to maybe put you on the right path going forward. Libido is the HARDEST thing to get back for most and you're already doing fine in this department. Six months of religious discipline to this protocol and you'd probably never have to mention PFS again bro.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 03:50 PM
I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless though, you've inspired me a bit today. I had completely forgotten about the magnesium and B-complexes you had mentioned, so I just picked those up as well and am going to throw those into my routine now as well.

Basically, all I was saying was this man, until we really know how this all goes down, I think it's a little over-assumptive to act like this routine will rid anyone of PFS and that every little portion of it is completely necessary

Lol....Dude....you're completely missing the point.

If you've been following me since Propecia help, then you would know there is nothing assumptive, or over assumptive about what I am telling you. I simply state THE TRUTH.

What I'm telling you is based in experience of myself and many others who have recovered. Every single aspect of this protocol exists for a reason and has been tested thoroughly. The fact you choose not to believe that says alot about your mindset. I always found it amazing that someone would rather argue and look for reasons why something won't work, as opposed to the other way around? Especially when there has been nothing but positive outcomes to people who have committed 100%....not 80....not 90.....100%

I'm not going to spoon feed you the reasons these things are required. All of that information can be found on my site, or on the web in general. Google is your friend. That being said, I would support you should you decide to go all in. It's alot harder then most guys can bare, but the ones that do always make it out the other side. That's why you have guys doing this part and that part.....they just can't get the whole thing together. It's alot in the beginning, but becomes part of life the longer you stick to it.

And OF COURSE the program would make EVERYONE feel better. Do you know why? Because these principals are based in natural science. That's why they work. They can't, not, work.

Ultimately it's your decision. like everything in life. You get what you put in. There is no free lunch. You can stay stuck with the symptoms you have, or you can get rid of them for good and feel better then you ever have before in your life. It's completely up to you.

Atticas
02-11-2017, 10:28 PM
I do carb back loading.....And just yesterday I had lunch with a family member who said, "I told my wife I needed to get with you and figure out what you've been doing over the last six months diet wise because it's obviously working when looking at you". That's all the proof I needed that it works.

Or you could just try it yourself and stick to it for a month and see where it gets you. Same with pro hormone usage...you said you didn't want to use it because you wanted people to think you're a "beast" all natural and no PEDs. Why do you give an honest fuck what other people think? I couldn't give two fucks if someone knew I was using PEDs normally, and ESPECIALLY given that I'm using them to get my life back. Why don't you just try it?

I'm not trying to be an ass my man, but some of these posts just scream that you're looking for reasons NOT to do something instead of just trying it for yourself. I find it really absurd that you're concerned about carb back loading and using pro hormones yet you'll use alcohol all during your attempted recovery knowing it's a powerful hormonal and neurosteroid modulator. Doesn't make much sense to me, but just my .02.

Don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give you a little tough love to maybe put you on the right path going forward. Libido is the HARDEST thing to get back for most and you're already doing fine in this department. Six months of religious discipline to this protocol and you'd probably never have to mention PFS again bro.

Meh... I guess I could try the pro-hormone at this point (after a month or two). I'm already on preg, 5a-DHP, and DHEA so I guess that natural dream is already out the window. My big thing was just wanting to be able to let others know any type of muscular gains I have made with my body I would have made naturally. It's hard for people starting up into fitness these days to figure out who is legit and who is absolutely wasting your time when you've got average looking guys with tons of knowledge about fitness and jacked looking guys who jump on steroids and barely know the principals of what they're actually doing in the gym or nutrition wise. I've wanted for a long time to be that guy that no one had a doubt about... that was why I held off for so long, but now that I've already ruined that, I may as well do what I need to do to get fully better...

Oh yea, and my reason for holding off on carb backloading I think was just that it's already hard enough for me to try and fit all the calories I need per day to gain weight in throughout the ENTIRE day with my annoyingly fast metabolism... trying to cram in huge portions at night would probably make me vomit on the regular.

While we're on the subject though, there's the fact the guy who originated the diet plan actually denounced it:

John Kiefer Admits Carb Backloading Is Wrong | Fit'n'Flexed (http://www.fitnflexed.com/article/john-kiefer-admits-carb-backloading-wrong)

And the fact that there were holes in what was being stated as scientific fact:

Does Carb Backloading Work? A Scientific Review | Muscle For Life (https://www.muscleforlife.com/does-carb-backloading-work/)

Although I appreciate what CDN has done, his website and his help (and I think he's a smart guy!!!).... he has still failed to show me any studies that convince me it's "great for hormones" and worth throwing up over every night.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 10:51 PM
Meh... I guess I could try the pro-hormone at this point (after a month or two). I'm already on preg, 5a-DHP, and DHEA so I guess that natural dream is already out the window. My big thing was just wanting to be able to let others know any type of muscular gains I have made with my body I would have made naturally. It's hard for people starting up into fitness these days to figure out who is legit and who is absolutely wasting your time when you've got average looking guys with tons of knowledge about fitness and jacked looking guys who jump on steroids and barely know the principals of what they're actually doing in the gym or nutrition wise. I've wanted for a long time to be that guy that no one had a doubt about... that was why I held off for so long, but now that I've already ruined that, I may as well do what I need to do to get fully better...

Oh yea, and my reason for holding off on carb backloading I think was just that it's already hard enough for me to try and fit all the calories I need per day to gain weight in throughout the ENTIRE day with my annoyingly fast metabolism... trying to cram in huge portions at night would probably make me vomit on the regular.

While we're on the subject though, there's the fact the guy who originated the diet plan actually denounced it:

John Kiefer Admits Carb Backloading Is Wrong | Fit'n'Flexed (http://www.fitnflexed.com/article/john-kiefer-admits-carb-backloading-wrong)

And the fact that there were holes in what was being stated as scientific fact:

Does Carb Backloading Work? A Scientific Review | Muscle For Life (https://www.muscleforlife.com/does-carb-backloading-work/)

Although I appreciate what CDN has done, his website and his help (and I think he's a smart guy!!!).... he has still failed to show me any studies that convince me it's "great for hormones" and worth throwing up over every night.
The first article you posted is not a working link. And John Kiefer has never denounced his carb back loading plan... Ever

Secondly, you can pretty much find any article to suit your preference on the internet. What counts is Real World experience and the results of other people, myself included. Why don't you try Googling carb back-loading success stories instead? Carb back-loading works. There are plenty of guys on this site alone that use it with great success. Check out the lifelog of scope on this site. That's just one of them.

Keep looking for reasons why you shouldn't do things, and you'll find them. I'm done entertaining this train of thought as it's pointless.

You get what you put into this program. You put half in, you'll get half back.

Tony Robbins has a great quote..." Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and start getting excited about what can go right."

Good luck to you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Atticas
02-11-2017, 11:12 PM
The first article you posted is not a working link. And John Kiefer has never denounced his carb back loading plan... Ever

Secondly, you can pretty much find any article to suit your preference on the internet. What counts is Real World experience and the results of other people, myself included. Why don't you try Googling carb back-loading success stories instead? Carb back-loading works. There are plenty of guys on this site alone that use it with great success. Check out the lifelog of scope on this site. That's just one of them.

Keep looking for reasons why you shouldn't do things, and you'll find them. I'm done entertaining this train of thought as it's pointless.

You get what you put into this program. You put half in, you'll get half back.

Tony Robbins has a great quote..." Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and start getting excited about what can go right."

Good luck to you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


Let me reword that, he didn't totallllly denounce the idea.. but here's what he did say (You can find this quote around 9:57):

John Kiefer: Trashing Paleo, Ketogenic Diet Mistakes, Why It’s Good to Be Wrong - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQVKtuCEkX4)

Interviewer: "So let's talk about some of the stuff you were wrong about, the ones that were the most surprising for you in regards to carbonate or carb backloading that you thought was one way but is perhaps another?"

Kiefer:".…Eh…..that’s gonna open up a can of worms. So I'm pretty much convinced that the insulin hypothesis as it stands is totally wrong. Insulin is not the culprit that is causing issues…..and that came up because a lot of people actually made really good arguments about insulin release when you have other types of meals,it’s almost unavoidable ...because as you eat you get GLP1 (glucagon like peptide 1 - for unawares) Increase, which will make you release insulin, regardless. You have that and certain proteins have really strong insulin responses but we still see fat loss in those instances…..So I started looking deeper into it and insulin alone isn’t actually the main problem, it’s a combination of effects. It’s very distinctly insulin plus glucose. So in essence a very good Q is that high carb people make is that insulin levels are not always chronically elevated - it only happens once you’re sick and diabetic.

But part of the insulin and ketosis, you know insulin control in ketosis is the solution, part of their argument is that insulin is high all the time thats whats forcing extra nutrients into fat tissues and so on and so forth and causing insensitivty …..but...that doesn’t jive, it just, logically doesn’t make sense."

Cdsnuts
02-12-2017, 06:51 AM
Let me reword that, he didn't totallllly denounce the idea.. but here's what he did say (You can find this quote around 9:57):

John Kiefer: Trashing Paleo, Ketogenic Diet Mistakes, Why It’s Good to Be Wrong - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQVKtuCEkX4)

Interviewer: "So let's talk about some of the stuff you were wrong about, the ones that were the most surprising for you in regards to carbonate or carb backloading that you thought was one way but is perhaps another?"

Kiefer:".…Eh…..that’s gonna open up a can of worms. So I'm pretty much convinced that the insulin hypothesis as it stands is totally wrong. Insulin is not the culprit that is causing issues…..and that came up because a lot of people actually made really good arguments about insulin release when you have other types of meals,it’s almost unavoidable ...because as you eat you get GLP1 (glucagon like peptide 1 - for unawares) Increase, which will make you release insulin, regardless. You have that and certain proteins have really strong insulin responses but we still see fat loss in those instances…..So I started looking deeper into it and insulin alone isn’t actually the main problem, it’s a combination of effects. It’s very distinctly insulin plus glucose. So in essence a very good Q is that high carb people make is that insulin levels are not always chronically elevated - it only happens once you’re sick and diabetic.

But part of the insulin and ketosis, you know insulin control in ketosis is the solution, part of their argument is that insulin is high all the time thats whats forcing extra nutrients into fat tissues and so on and so forth and causing insensitivty …..but...that doesn’t jive, it just, logically doesn’t make sense."

Just stop. Really. Stop.

He is NOT bashing carb backloading......AT ALL. What video are you watching?? You're hearing what you want to hear. He is talking specifically about part of the ketogenic diet.....lol. This just goes to show you exactly what I said before. If you look for something, positive or negative, you'll find it. So why not look for the positive? Go back to 15:10 or so in the video and you'll hear him explain carb backloading and carb night, and you'll also hear the host of the show say "yeah, I do carb backloading"

This is just ridiculous. I'm telling you from personal experience it works. Plenty of guys on this site use it in one form or another, because it works, and you'll be able to find hundreds of accounts online about how and why it works. You....someone who has never even attempted it because you think it would have you force feeding yourself, which it wouldn't, are trying to discredit it by any means necessary, unsuccessfully so. Why put so much energy into bashing something that you have no clue about? You're talking out your ass. I'm speaking from a place of experience.

This whole thing is just a waste of time. Just because you don't want to do everything that's necessary, you decide to try and shoot holes in it. This is the stuff that happens over at Propecia help and other forums. Maybe you'd be better suited for that type of environment rather then this one that focuses on solutions, not problems. It's clear that you're trying to dirty the waters with unsubstantiated claims and just pure negative bullshit. It's also clear you don't know how to research based on what you're showing me here. It's obvious that you didn't understand what was being said in that video.

If you don't want to do all that is necessary to get well, that is on you. But don't come around here trying to poke holes in something you have no clue about OR experience with. This whole thing was a massive waste of time.

I'm here to help people, not argue moot points with people who have no clue about what they're talking about. Be done with this. You don't want to do it, fine, move on. This is done.

Atticas
02-12-2017, 11:38 AM
Just stop. Really. Stop.

He is NOT bashing carb backloading......AT ALL. What video are you watching?? You're hearing what you want to hear. He is talking specifically about part of the ketogenic diet.....lol. This just goes to show you exactly what I said before. If you look for something, positive or negative, you'll find it. So why not look for the positive? Go back to 15:10 or so in the video and you'll hear him explain carb backloading and carb night, and you'll also hear the host of the show say "yeah, I do carb backloading"

This is just ridiculous. I'm telling you from personal experience it works. Plenty of guys on this site use it in one form or another, because it works, and you'll be able to find hundreds of accounts online about how and why it works. You....someone who has never even attempted it because you think it would have you force feeding yourself, which it wouldn't, are trying to discredit it by any means necessary, unsuccessfully so. Why put so much energy into bashing something that you have no clue about? You're talking out your ass. I'm speaking from a place of experience.

This whole thing is just a waste of time. Just because you don't want to do everything that's necessary, you decide to try and shoot holes in it. This is the stuff that happens over at Propecia help and other forums. Maybe you'd be better suited for that type of environment rather then this one that focuses on solutions, not problems. It's clear that you're trying to dirty the waters with unsubstantiated claims and just pure negative bullshit. It's also clear you don't know how to research based on what you're showing me here. It's obvious that you didn't understand what was being said in that video.

If you don't want to do all that is necessary to get well, that is on you. But don't come around here trying to poke holes in something you have no clue about OR experience with. This whole thing was a massive waste of time.

I'm here to help people, not argue moot points with people who have no clue about what they're talking about. Be done with this. You don't want to do it, fine, move on. This is done.

SO defensive x''D

And of COURSE there's people all over the internet saying a diet fad works for them. There's tons of people all over the internet who supported OTHER diet fads as well and stated it worked for them! Does that mean they are all scientifically sound/superior? NO! As you yourself would agree, correlation does not equal causation, and there may clearly be a lot more factors behind someone's weight loss than just what or what time they were eating.

Look, it's not like I'm poking new holes here. You're promoting a method that has been around for years and in that time has been (a) shown to have holes in various articles (b) discredited by Alan Aragon among other fitness gurus..... and (c) had one of its major points denounced by its own creator.... but you're the one claiming I don't know how to research.

Here's a review from almost 4 years ago written by Joseph Agu:

https://www.elitenutritioncoaching.com/articles/2013/05/04/an-objective-review-of-john-kiefers-carb-back-loading-part-1
https://www.elitenutritioncoaching.com/articles/2013/05/04/an-objective-review-of-john-kiefers-carb-back-loading-part-2

If it does ANYTHING, it's fairly minuscule. The best study to support it had flaws in its methodology... lack of structured exercise program, the cops were reporting the caloric intake themselves, the caloric intake differed between both groups as they were cutting as even Kiefer points out, and the subjects weren't even being given the correct amounts of protein needed to support regular muscle maintenance.

Again, my point being, I think you've found a lot of stuff that helps. Do I find it the holy grail or absolutely all necessary? Probably not. Example A: Carb Backloading. Until we fully understand what Finasteride did to us, it seems overassumptive to declare you have all the answers with your regimen. Does the regimen help? For most, I'm sure!............... Does not following it to the t means you won't heal or that there aren't better ways? I don't believe so. I think more answers are to come in the future and I really enjoy the research TubZy and Haidut have let out.

But whatever man, you can just keep calling me a slack and pessimistic in the meanwhile. My bad for asking for more solid research and more answers than just "follow it cuz I say so! It works!"

Cdsnuts
02-12-2017, 11:41 AM
I'm promoting it because it works. I'm done going back and forth with you on this issue because you've already made up your mind about something you haven't even tried which in and of itself is completely ridiculous.

If you would actually take the time to try it, you would be able to see for yourself. But rather than do that you're looking for reasons why it won't work.

If you want solid research, personal experience is the best teacher. It will always Trump any article or study you read online.

Rather than get all of the benefits you possibly can you're selling yourself short because of something you believe that's incorrect.

And defensive....perhaps a little. But that's simply because other guys that are on the fence may read what you're writing and rather then just try it for themselves, they're going to decide it's not for them based upon the things you're writing. That's going to do nothing but sell them short.

If you choose not to take all the advice that's given to you because you feel this or you feel that, without basing it on any personal real world experience, that is your prerogative.

Again, you get what you put in. RESULTS are ALL that matters in this situation. NOT some bullshit article or study done by people trying to actively discredit something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Maxout777
02-12-2017, 12:38 PM
I don't put a whole lot of faith in scientific studies anymore after this whole experience.

I didn't use finasteride, only Saw Palmetto, but I remember seeing plenty of medical studies on the safety of finasteride. And look how far that got most of the people here.....Just saying. Nothing is wrong with studies to back up claims, but some of them aren't worth the paper they are printed on compared to someone's experience with the compound. I just try things now and see how they do for me. It's served me much better than trying to find out how something works on a forum.

Cdsnuts
02-12-2017, 12:43 PM
That is one of the biggest things I try to tell guys that end up in this situation.

I try and tell them to just suspend all belief that they may have right or wrong and dive into this 100%. Typically if they give it enough time they're more than glad that they did.

I found that most guys are their own worst enemies.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Swill
02-12-2017, 03:14 PM
Keeping this brief....

1) I use carb backloading. It works, and I lean out great and feel great. It doesn't involve shovelling a shit tonne of food in thats unbearable post training, I've never found it difficult.

2) How can you comment on what is or isn't the holy grail, as someone that HASN'T recovered, to someone that HAS recovered, with any degree of certainty. CD is saying what has CATEGORICALLY worked for him, and it has also worked for plenty of others too, many of whom I've spoken to. I'm not out of the woods yet, but damn its done me some good and life is pretty damn awesome... I didn't think id ever be saying that a couple of years back.

To me, keeping your body without carbs in the earlier part of the day prolonging the period your body is a 'fat burning inferno' by not introducing carbs that halt this metabolic process after sleep, fueling on lots of good fats, then taking in carbs at the exact time the body is primed to process them in the most efficient way just makes perfect sense.

And as Maxout said, how can you put so much stoke in scientific studies? Shall I dig up the massive double-binded study that says finasteride is safe and any side effects experienced will resolve very quickly after cessation, drop a link to it here, then we can all agree it is in our heads and just leave it at that?

Give carb backloading a go. Or dont and go your own route. But don't critique something you haven't even tried to bunch of people that have with a great deal of success.

Benq123
02-12-2017, 04:10 PM
The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

Sorry if I'm repeating or missing something dumb but just wanted some clarification.
Prohormones aren't part of the protocol right? Just herbs, and everything else you mention on "the Regimen" section of your website.
Just making sure I'm doing it 100%. Thanks

Cdsnuts
02-12-2017, 04:28 PM
Sorry if I'm repeating or missing something dumb but just wanted some clarification.
Prohormones aren't part of the protocol right? Just herbs, and everything else you mention on "the Regimen" section of your website.
Just making sure I'm doing it 100%. Thanks
Please don't randomly jump in on someone else's thread and ask a question that is off topic to the thread at hand.

If you have a question start a new post.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

5 alpha victim
02-12-2017, 05:39 PM
I never got into the carb back loading simply because I was focusing on other parts that I felt needed more of my attention. I plan on including it soon though.  Atticus, from reading your posts it's clear that you have achevied some good results by following these methods. Better attitude, squatting 300 pounds girl friend Ect..

I suppose we could talk it to death or keep it at the two simple questions asked on Cds website:

1) did I lift heavy today?
2) is it dark out?

Let's eat some white rice and potatoes.

I mean if you are going go eat rice and potatoes anyway what difference does it make as far as the level of difficulty that it takes to eat it later in the day anyway.

That sounds much easier. With all the finastride reducing allopreg concertrations in guinea pig brains studies we seem to be all reading about nowadays something needs to stay easy and not complicated.

Atticas
02-13-2017, 10:14 AM
Sorry if I'm repeating or missing something dumb but just wanted some clarification.
Prohormones aren't part of the protocol right? Just herbs, and everything else you mention on "the Regimen" section of your website.
Just making sure I'm doing it 100%. Thanks

To just answer this for you real quick, yes, they are.

And even though I've been a big advocate against prohormones for myself, I truly believe they will help you if you're willing to take them.

Try the herbs and some of the other stuff first though and see what results you get. You'll probably be surprised how much better you'll feel.

Atticas
02-23-2017, 09:14 AM
Current status:

I have been feeling a bit better mood wise I think. I'm kind of stressed out lately due to my job status (might have to quit) and my gf stressing me out a bit.... But other than that, my mental clarity has improved and my mood throughout the day seems more easy and fungoing. The caffeine in the morning is also definitely helping with my mood.

My sleep has also improved! Before I would say, my sleep got to the point where I could at least sleep 7 hours a few nights a week.... now though, I started supplementing with the Glycine recommended by Maxoutt777 as well as taking melatonin, and I can just feel that my sleep is heavier and I feel good in the morning.

The only thing that's still bringing me down is that my skin quality is still horrible, genital atrophy is still present, and my energy has still felt relatively the same, even with taking the 5a-DHP, progesterone, and DHEA. I'm waiting to hear recommendations from Tubzy on possibly where to go from here with the hormones... I may just need to up the dosage. I'm not sure... I'm definitely excited about ending the hormones soon though and going back to the herbs. They seemed to do good things for me :)

Atticas
02-27-2017, 03:22 PM
So good news lately!

After taking up the magnesium and B complexes CDN recommended, as well as continuing with the exogenous hormones and taking melatonin at night, I had been seeing some results!

My sleep has been showing improvement and I swear like 3 days in a row I felt like I had seen some minor improvement under my eyes finally!

The only bad news is I ran out of 5a-DHP and am currently waiting to receive and order of two more bottles, which I'm going to try and dose more heavy this time while still taking pregnenlone. Hoping this won't throw my body out of wack too bad :/

Atticas
03-01-2017, 03:42 PM
So got my 5a-DHP in the mail today. Gonna start the dosage at 20mg and go either higher or lower depending on how I feel.

Haven't been seeing huge results just using 5mg... but some perhaps. It's hard to say with just starting to throw melatonin, a magnesium complex, and a vitamin B complex in the mix as well.

Via recommendation by Tubzy and some reading on the product, I'm also going to purchase Haidut's "Solban" product and will report its effects on my skin. Will keep anyone who actually reads this posted x'D

Atticas
03-02-2017, 03:00 PM
Tried 20mgs yesterday.... didn't really feel anything... although did wake up to low hanging privates so that's always good.

Bout to hit gym in about 30 minutes or so, so bout to take 30mgs today along with some caffeine and report back. Wish me luck!

Atticas
03-02-2017, 06:06 PM
After taking 30mgs today and 150mg of caffeine, I am happy to report I felt pretty decent in the gym!

It was my fault for not feeling even better because I waited like an hour or so after taking the stuff before going to the gym so I didn't feel as good as I would have.

Anyways, that was the closest I think I've gotten to the feeling I had when I first tried 5as-DHP and got a giant surge of energy.

Tomorrow........... I'M GOING FOR 40MG BABY. Let's see what happens :D

K8668B
03-02-2017, 07:33 PM
I was only doing 5-7mg a day for a few days. I didnt give it enough time. I was "naive-ly" thinking and hoping it was just magically gonna relieve all of my pfs sexual sides, and start giving me random boners, and turn me into a sex god. hahahaha. but no difference when i took it. try the 40mg, but just be careful. 40mg seems crazy to me though, because my bottle apparently only had 240mg total, so if u did 40mg a day, you would run out of the bottle in 6 days. The bottle i have is tiny as hell

Thats good to hear that it helps you in the gym a little bit though. Perhaps it has an effect that enhances focus

Atticas
03-02-2017, 09:20 PM
I was only doing 5-7mg a day for a few days. I didnt give it enough time. I was "naive-ly" thinking and hoping it was just magically gonna relieve all of my pfs sexual sides, and start giving me random boners, and turn me into a sex god. hahahaha. but no difference when i took it. try the 40mg, but just be careful. 40mg seems crazy to me though, because my bottle apparently only had 240mg total, so if u did 40mg a day, you would run out of the bottle in 6 days. The bottle i have is tiny as hell

Thats good to hear that it helps you in the gym a little bit though. Perhaps it has an effect that enhances focus

Yeaaaaaaa, no... I definitely understand 40mg a day would be a little steep...

But the way I see it, I used one bottle for like 2-3 weeks, and I was only planning on cycling this stuff for a month...

So if I use 40mg a day and finally start seeing greater results from this stuff like others have been seeing, I say it's worth it.

I'm honestly looking forward to going back on CDN's herb list anyway. I'm feeling better these days, for sure.

K8668B
03-03-2017, 12:01 AM
Yeaaaaaaa, no... I definitely understand 40mg a day would be a little steep...

But the way I see it, I used one bottle for like 2-3 weeks, and I was only planning on cycling this stuff for a month...

So if I use 40mg a day and finally start seeing greater results from this stuff like others have been seeing, I say it's worth it.

I'm honestly looking forward to going back on CDN's herb list anyway. I'm feeling better these days, for sure.

Yeah man, get back on CDs herbs immediately. His herb cycling, and occasional super andro cycling is IMO the two key things that are gonna cure pfs, and increase baseline (of course, in conjunction with the appropriate diet, and weight training and sprinting). You can go other sites like solvepfs, and pphelp and see all these people throwing out random ideas like "try this, or try that", but ive tried some of those methods and they dont work. Aint no magic bullet. CDs program literally seems the most logical. I'll be starting my juice feast/fast on tuesday.

Atticas
03-03-2017, 12:23 AM
Yeah man, get back on CDs herbs immediately. His herb cycling, and occasional super andro cycling is IMO the two key things that are gonna cure pfs, and increase baseline (of course, in conjunction with the appropriate diet, and weight training and sprinting). You can go other sites like solvepfs, and pphelp and see all these people throwing out random ideas like "try this, or try that", but ive tried some of those methods and they dont work. Aint no magic bullet. CDs program literally seems the most logical. I'll be starting my juice feast/fast on tuesday.

Good luck with that man.

I did a juice/water fast successfully, but I took the entire week off xD Can't imagine doing it while working or completing school work or whatever...

And yea man, I'm excited to see what happens. I was gonna try and hold off on the pro-hormone cycling if I could, but now that I've done exogenous hormones and unknowingly taking a steroid from Dr. Shippen, if I don't get way better within a month or two, I figure I'll jump on that wagon as well. I'm hopeful about my results here though with 5a-DHP and Preg!

K8668B
03-03-2017, 01:25 AM
Good luck with that man.

I did a juice/water fast successfully, but I took the entire week off xD Can't imagine doing it while working or completing school work or whatever...

And yea man, I'm excited to see what happens. I was gonna try and hold off on the pro-hormone cycling if I could, but now that I've done exogenous hormones and unknowingly taking a steroid from Dr. Shippen, if I don't get way better within a month or two, I figure I'll jump on that wagon as well. I'm hopeful about my results here though with 5a-DHP and Preg!


No doubt! The juice feast isnt gonna be easy, but I look forward to it.

I read some of your posts from awhile back, about wanting to stay "natural" and avoid pro hormones for as long as possible. I can understand that mentality. I was the same way for awhile myself. But things changed, when i saw what the side effects of this drug have done to me in certain situations, and i literally saw my own life flash right before my eyes. I trained in the gym natural for over a decade, and have reached my own genetic potential several times. Ive taken breaks in between too. I peaked out at ages 22, 26, 27, 28, and 30. I always reached a certain point, and i dont seem to go any further. But the levels ive reached naturally, i am proud of it. But over time.... due to my pfs situation.... simply going to the gym, and a combination of already reaching my genetic natural potential many times, just lost its spice. I could have my best physique in the world, and i have, but it never got me happiness, and where i truly wanted to be in life, thanks to the side effects of pfs.

When you think about it, there is nothing more UN-natural than propecia/finasteride. No point being in tip top shape, while having pfs sides/sexual sides at the same time. So im over the whole wanting to avoid pro hormones thing now. Waaaay past that at this point... when you look at the whole bigger picture. fuck propecia.

Atticas
03-03-2017, 10:21 AM
GUISE.

GUISE, I THINK I'VE HIT A BREAKTHROUGH.

I'm not sure what to point to here... I've mean I've been doing random variations of the CDN protocol for monthssss (forgetting some things at times, being religious about others), but i'm now seeing further progress and I'm not sure what to point to!!

The progress is..... Last night, I realized I couldn't see big, stressed looking veins under my eyes anymore, and this morning they weren't there either!!!! This has been around for like 2 years plus!!! On top of that, my energy has been seeming a bit better! My mental clarity is firing back!

Again, i'm not sure what to attribute to it.... what's changed for me maybe in the last 3 weeks:

> Starting taking the magnesium and B complexes I forgot CDN mentioned
> I've been continuously taking 5a-DHP and Pregnenolone (finally dropped the DHEA out of it by TubZy suggestion)(Also, upping the dosage of 5a-DHP to higher amounts for a few more days/weeks)
> Started taking melatonin at night (alongside Glycine)
> Quit my high-stress job
> Juicing in the morning (finally cut back some of my monthly expenses, so now I can afford to do this daily!)(juicing carrots, beets, celery, cucumber, and apples or oranges)

MAN OH MAN!!! I'm looking forward to the progress still to come!!!

THANK YOU CDN, TUBZY AND MAXOUTT777!!!!

Atticas
08-27-2017, 09:31 AM
Hey you guys, just wanted to give you all a much due update after about 5 months of going missing in the forums.

I honestly almost didn't want to ever come back to here until I was fully recovered, but I guess I should at least update you guys and thank you for those of you who cared enough about me and my progress to inbox me over that time.

So anyways, to cut to the chase here, I basically feel how I did about a year ago. Some things have gotten better, and some things have stayed pretty bad. The things that got better were my mental clarity, my ability to sleep, my overall well-being and happiness, and my strength after really getting into CDN's herb cycle as well parts of his old protocol (I say old because I can see now from his new website that the protocol has evolved into an even bigger picture that may help everyone even more)

What I can tell you for sure has helped me:
> Making an effort to get good sleep
> Cold showers
> Zinc, Vitamin D, and Magnesium supplements (holy hell, my libido after taking zinc and vitamin D btw O___O)
> Herb cycling with most of the recommendations CDN has up on his site
> fasting for like 5-7 days... did something. (I'm not sure exactly what but I know it did because I broke out INSANELY all over my back after like the last day. HGH must have gone nuts or something...)
> drinking lots of water (for those of you struggling with energy, this gives you a burst of energy you can really feel after drinking so much)
> getting sun (vitamin D and a nice tan can boost confidence)
> juicing
> meditation
> finding something to take passion in and focusing on it a lot (kind of works as another way of keeping your brain healthy like meditation, in that you do something that pulls your focus off your constant personal anxiety/struggle)
> weightlifting (boosting T as well as gaining confidence really helps)

Things that have not gotten fully better:
> dick still acts weird at times, getting caught in weird semi-chub/flaccid states (still can pull erections though. No ED was ever caught from it strange enough)
> still have the wrinkles around my elbows from muscle atrophy and dark circles around my eyes from fat atrophy
> still also have loose skin and in general, skin health not where it should be at age 26 I feel

So with this all being said guys, I want to give you guys hope. Listen, I know it's been almost 3 years for me now going through this, but I've chosen to make my mistakes. I've drank alcohol and thrown off my balance from time to time. I've accidentally eaten foods with things I'm allergic to in them. And i've fallen off the regime multiple times when I've gotten busy or just lazy (which the last part is very easy to fall into. This regime CDN put out is work, and sometimes it's hard to stick through!) Don't be like how I've been. If you really stick to the regime (even heaven forbid without the prohormones), I think you will find great progress, but you have to stick to it daily. A lot of people think if you really stick to a proper regime with this thing, that you could heal up between maybe 6 months - year, and I know that sounds long for some of you guys out there that are still pretty young and just caught this terrible curse, but believe me, going MIA for 6 months or so to get your full health back versus trying to live the same life you lived before for YEARS to come KNOWING your health is in a sucky state, SUCKS worse. If you can stick it out, you won't regret it later.

And as for all of you that were very concerned with facial changes that hit me up as well, I can confidently tell you I believe even this can pass as well. The premature wrinkling, the dark circles, etc. I too panicked very hard when it happened to me, and it still pains me from time to time to see that my facial problems are still there from this drug, BUT, I can also tell you I've read where people have healed from it (CDN, Mew, Past Recoveries, and even one guy who was just getting somethings right). And believe it or not, from time to time, even I myself wake up and see some things temporarily get better. It is possible, and it's not an irreversible curse you're dealing with here, nor the premature facial or bodily aging, so don't worry so much. Stick to this regime guys. Go hard. Fight to regain who you once were, except this time, come back even better than
before! :)

And as my last comment I make on this post before I go, to the guys who suffer fromm different effects of PFS and spew venom at other people for mostly going through facial issues and other side effects instead of ED, LISTEN, I understand ED f*cking sucks.... but DON'T go dick measuring your problems with the other members to try and make them feel stupid or like their problems aren't real issues. It is HELLA F*CKING HARD to look in the mirror everyday and see a face that's distorted, unhealthy looking, and unnaturally, rapidly declining because of ONE mistake you made in your life, and try and somehow keep a positive outlook on life. I was 24 and a good looking guy with dreams and hopes just like a lot of you, and I slowly within days watched my eyes sink, and then watched my whole face fall apart slowly while I began suffering PFS. You wanna talk about being embarassed your dick doesn't work with a girl? I was embarrassed to even leave my house! To see people I knew! To try and talk to any girl I might have interest in! To look anyone in the face anymore, and I worked in customer service! I'm not saying it's on the same level as ED or that it's even worse than ED, BUT WHAT I AM SAYING, is that it's a real freakin issue and I just want you guys to realize that and stop making other members feel worse about themselves for being concerned about it. I know we can be sour from what we're all going through, but we need to support each other, share some level of empathy for one another, and remain positive for one another. So with that being said, guys, this site has been known as a place of hope and positivity for those suffering from PFS. Let's remember that, and try and keep it this way, by helping push our fellow members out of their funks, and helping each other all push our way to recovery. Until next time, I wish you all a not-so-distant recovery, and thanks again for all your support.

Aly
10-26-2020, 02:40 PM
Hi atticas, how are you now? an update would really help! thanks!

Thetfordboy
04-12-2022, 12:03 PM
A few things.....

Honestly....it doesn't sound like your really suffering that much given what you just wrote. If you have the desire to go get fucked up on the beach, you must not really be in the shit as much as some other people or I was at the time.

And.....you shouldn't start right in with the herbs after the juice feast. Too soon. You should get refed for a month or so and after about the two week mark of solid food, you should start your calisthenics routine.

And....you only want to take each herb ONE day and then go onto the next one.

Why? I thought we were to start the herbs straight after the fasts/feasts?