My journey to the promised land

[Maxout777]

Hey all,

Glad to find this community of guys who accomplish their goals and don't let anything stand in their way. Hope to be a valuable asset to this board, as I've been lurking for awhile now. I'll spare you the spill, I'm one of "those guys", and got to that state by using Saw Palmetto for a month and a half. My symptoms and situation are very similar to what Freepressright on this board went through with Fenugreek. I've been off for three months now, and while I've seen some natural improvement in those months, I've always been a fan of taking things into my own hands, and decided a few weeks ago to embark on the quest of Cdsnuts' routine.

I decided to register on this forum to interact and become one of you guys, because I was tired of sitting on the other boards dedicated to "our cause" and listening to naysayers and people grasp at thirty different ideas each week, and find a place that people stick to what works and accomplish their goals through hard work, whether it be recovering from PFS or accomplishing weightlifting/body building goals. I've always preached that you become what you associate with, and I believe my chances of succeeding in what I want will be much better from having you guys over here to talk to. I won't bombard your board with a bunch of PFS-related posts, just wanted to introduce myself and what I'm going through - any support and or advice you have for me would be greatly appreciated, as I'm still a little fresh to this subject.

A little about myself, I've Been a football/baseball player my entire life, and have worked out regularly since the age of 15. I've been a winner and found much success in all of these arenas, because I understand the hard work, dedication, and discipline required to be a winner. I plan to translate this to my recovery here. I have a wonderful girlfriend, whom I plan to marry soon, and she deserves the best me I can give her, and that's just what she'll get. Success is my only option here - just how I like it.

My routine so far has included:

- Intermittent water fasting. I didn't do a whole long water fast because I don't believe my case is as bad as others. I have the energy to workout 6x weekly with weights and running 2-3x weekly and my body has responded to it. I put on muscle and it doesn't "crash" me.
- Cycling t-boosters/herbs. I have about 11 of the ones on Cdsnuts list that I rotate daily. Planning on moving up to 14 soon to have a full two week cycle.
- Working out 6x weekly and running HIIT sprints 2-3x weekly.
- Getting 7-8 hours sleep a night minimum.
- Meditation to relax the mind.
- Most importantly, keeping a positive mindset and not letting the doom and gloom get me down.

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from you guys, like I said any advice or support is greatly appreciated. Hope we all have a ton of success accomplishing our goals. Lets get to work.

[Maxout777]

Also, had some blood work done close to a month ago now before starting the current protocol. (I don't put a lot of stock in bloods, but here they are in case someone can possibly interpret what else could be going on):

Total T: 463 ng/dl (348-1197)
Free T: 12.8 pg/ml (9.3-26.5)
Estradiol: 14.5 pg/ml (7.6-42.6)
DHEA-S: 365.1 ug/dl (14.3-530.5)
SHBG: 25.3 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)
DHT: 30 ng/dL (Range: 30-85 ng/dL)
LH: 5.9 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 11.9 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)

[WesleyInman]

Welcome to the forum :)

[Maxout777]

Welcome to the forum :)

Thanks Wes, glad to be here!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey all,

Glad to find this community of guys who accomplish their goals and don't let anything stand in their way. Hope to be a valuable asset to this board, as I've been lurking for awhile now. I'll spare you the spill, I'm one of "those guys", and got to that state by using Saw Palmetto for a month and a half. My symptoms and situation are very similar to what Freepressright on this board went through with Fenugreek. I've been off for three months now, and while I've seen some natural improvement in those months, I've always been a fan of taking things into my own hands, and decided a few weeks ago to embark on the quest of Cdsnuts' routine.

I decided to register on this forum to interact and become one of you guys, because I was tired of sitting on the other boards dedicated to "our cause" and listening to naysayers and people grasp at thirty different ideas each week, and find a place that people stick to what works and accomplish their goals through hard work, whether it be recovering from PFS or accomplishing weightlifting/body building goals. I've always preached that you become what you associate with, and I believe my chances of succeeding in what I want will be much better from having you guys over here to talk to. I won't bombard your board with a bunch of PFS-related posts, just wanted to introduce myself and what I'm going through - any support and or advice you have for me would be greatly appreciated, as I'm still a little fresh to this subject.

A little about myself, I'm 25, have a good stable job in cybersecurity. Been a football/baseball player my entire life, and have worked out regularly since the age of 15. I've been a winner and found much success in all of these arenas, because I understand the hard work, dedication, and discipline required to be a winner. I plan to translate this to my recovery here. I have a wonderful girlfriend, whom I plan to marry soon, and she deserves the best me I can give her, and that's just what she'll get. Success is my only option here - just how I like it.

My routine so far has included:

- Intermittent water fasting. I didn't do a whole long water fast because I don't believe my case is as bad as others. I have the energy to workout 6x weekly with weights and running 2-3x weekly and my body has responded to it. I put on muscle and it doesn't "crash" me.
- Cycling t-boosters/herbs. I have about 11 of the ones on Cdsnuts list that I rotate daily. Planning on moving up to 14 soon to have a full two week cycle.
- Working out 6x weekly and running HIIT sprints 2-3x weekly.
- Getting 7-8 hours sleep a night minimum.
- Meditation to relax the mind.
- Most importantly, keeping a positive mindset and not letting the doom and gloom get me down.

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from you guys, like I said any advice or support is greatly appreciated. Hope we all have a ton of success accomplishing our goals. Lets get to work.
-

Welcome.

Sounds like you got it locked down. Just keep at it. It's nothing to get through.......this is just your way of life now.

[Maxout777]

Welcome.

Sounds like you got it locked down. Just keep at it. It's nothing to get through.......this is just your way of life now.

Thanks man, glad to be here. Forgot to throw in that of course I'm doing a paleo style diet too. Just wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row from researching before I hopped in here with you guys.

Thanks again for giving guys like me the outline we need to get back, you're a huge inspiration to me.

[SoCal-Nutrition]

Welcome!

[English]

Also, had some blood work done close to a month ago now before starting the current protocol. (I don't put a lot of stock in bloods, but here they are in case someone can possibly interpret what else could be going on):

Total T: 463 ng/dl (348-1197)
Free T: 12.8 pg/ml (9.3-26.5)
Estradiol: 14.5 pg/ml (7.6-42.6)
DHEA-S: 365.1 ug/dl (14.3-530.5)
SHBG: 25.3 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)
DHT: 30 ng/dL (Range: 30-85 ng/dL)
LH: 5.9 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 11.9 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)

Hey fella,

First up, welcome to the forum. Like CD says, you've been pretty much got it sorted.

I just want to add regards your bloods, your LH is quite high considering your free T level, and there's a recovered scientist kind of guy "Josh" who talks alot of sense in his articles within this link regards calcium and magnesium issues in pfs guys that struggle to convert good LH numbers into T. It is very easy to remedy it, have a read (you must scroll right to the bottom to see the next article of 5 i think) and you should also take not of his articles on inflammation in the gut. You can ignore the thryroid article as you wouldn't be performing as you are physically if you needed thryroid meds. Also, when taking magnesium, always co-factor it with calcium, and always take the glycinate version predominently, other types are poorly absorbed and tolerated:
Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery: How to reduce gut inflammation PFS Healing (http://www.pfshealing.com/post-finasteride-syndrome-recovery-how-to-reduce-gut-inflammation/)

[Maxout777]

Hey fella,

First up, welcome to the forum. Like CD says, you've been pretty much got it sorted.

I just want to add regards your bloods, your LH is quite high considering your free T level, and there's a recovered scientist kind of guy "Josh" who talks alot of sense in his articles within this link regards calcium and magnesium issues in pfs guys that struggle to convert good LH numbers into T. It is very easy to remedy it, have a read (you must scroll right to the bottom to see the next article of 5 i think) and you should also take not of his articles on inflammation in the gut. You can ignore the thryroid article as you wouldn't be performing as you are physically if you needed thryroid meds. Also, when taking magnesium, always co-factor it with calcium, and always take the glycinate version predominently, other types are poorly absorbed and tolerated:
Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery: How to reduce gut inflammation PFS Healing (http://www.pfshealing.com/post-finasteride-syndrome-recovery-how-to-reduce-gut-inflammation/)

Thanks for the article, I'm going to take a look at it.

This LH level was taken about a month after those T levels, and I was already taking Tongkat Ali and Tribulus, so I have a feeling that may have thrown it off. My original LH with those T levels was 3.7. Would that make more sense with my levels?

Gonna do a dig of that article and see what I can tailor around myself. Thanks again for the information!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey fella,

First up, welcome to the forum. Like CD says, you've been pretty much got it sorted.

I just want to add regards your bloods, your LH is quite high considering your free T level, and there's a recovered scientist kind of guy "Josh" who talks alot of sense in his articles within this link regards calcium and magnesium issues in pfs guys that struggle to convert good LH numbers into T. It is very easy to remedy it, have a read (you must scroll right to the bottom to see the next article of 5 i think) and you should also take not of his articles on inflammation in the gut. You can ignore the thryroid article as you wouldn't be performing as you are physically if you needed thryroid meds. Also, when taking magnesium, always co-factor it with calcium, and always take the glycinate version predominently, other types are poorly absorbed and tolerated:
Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery: How to reduce gut inflammation PFS Healing (http://www.pfshealing.com/post-finasteride-syndrome-recovery-how-to-reduce-gut-inflammation/)

IMO the best place to get magnesium and calcium that are properly paired and are more importantly, bio available is in the form of dark green juices or smoothies as an addition to your diet. Something to keep in mind. Get in a large green smoothie or juice daily and you will more than satisfy this need.

Another fantastic benefit to magnesium is that it increases testosterone by binding to SHBG. It directly increases your free testosterone levels. Among the hundreds of important things the mineral does in the body, this to me is one of the most exciting.

[Maxout777]

IMO the best place to get magnesium and calcium that are properly paired and are more importantly, bio available is in the form of dark green juices or smoothies as an addition to your diet. Something to keep in mind. Get in a large green smoothie or juice daily and you will more than satisfy this need.

Another fantastic benefit to magnesium is that it increases testosterone by binding to SHBG. It directly increases your free testosterone levels. Among the hundreds of important things the mineral does in the body, this to me is one of the most exciting.

I have made a habit of doing a green type smoothie everyday before, just got out of it and stopped doing it. Will definitely add that back to the diet. I supplement Natural Calm magnesium twice daily so I will add Calcium to it just to see if it helps any as well. Can use all the Free T I can get at this point.

CD, I did have a question that I forgot to ask, given that I'm performing pretty well, should I stick to just doing intermittent fasting or do you believe a longer water fast thrown in from time to time will be better? Thanks in advance for the help guys, much appreciated! Hitting the gym for the day as we speak.

[Cdsnuts]

I suggest a water-only fast for people that are really really down in the dumps and barely making it through life as they need the most physiological rest they can get. I would not recommend it for someone who's doing as well as you.

That being said a juice feast of about a week's time would do you wonders as you wouldn't be laid up because of it

Anybody that's ever experienced the regenerative power of a solid juice Feast will attest to the effects it has on your overall condition, PFS or not

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

I suggest a water-only fast for people that are really really down in the dumps and barely making it through life as they need the most physiological rest they can get. I would not recommend it for someone who's doing as well as you.

That being said a juice feast of about a week's time would do you wonders as you wouldn't be laid up because of it

Anybody that's ever experienced the regenerative power of a solid juice Feast will attest to the effects it has on your overall condition, PFS or not

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Gotcha, that was my only concern about doing a lengthy water fast was the loss of physical condition. Discipline wise is not a problem. I still throw in at least a 24 HR water fast every 1-2 weeks. I'll plan on doing a week long juice fast coming up soon - need to build up the produce to do that. Thanks for the heads up!

[Maxout777]

Quick question to anyone in the know here.....

So I've been off pine pollen for a week, had to wait for SMH to ship me some more, been feeling really good this week (one of my high weeks) after starting at a low on Monday. Pine Pollen came in today and I almost feel like I got some brain fog (nothing major, just a slight notice of it) or a sensitive reaction to it.....been taking it daily so far, cycling the rest.

Could this be due to me needing to add an AI to my regimen? Confused here because all I've heard is good things about pine pollen. And my morning erections are definitely better when taking it.

(I'm taking the powder FWIW, haven't been able to get my hands on a tincture yet.)

[Maxout777]

Just a little update, had a fantastic last half of the week and weekend. Pretty much felt back to myself, but have come back down a bit already. It's still nice getting to see that side of yourself again....can't wait to be back there.

[Cdsnuts]

Just a little update, had a fantastic last half of the week and weekend. Pretty much felt back to myself, but have come back down a bit already. It's still nice getting to see that side of yourself again....can't wait to be back there.

If you're feeling like that already, you'll be back there sooner then you think.

[Maxout777]

These are mostly on the mental side of things. I'd say about 95% mental, 50-60% sexual (didn't test it, girlfriend wasn't feeling well). I'm assuming (from what I've read), that the sexual sides are the last to go away.....those are the slowest improvements I've had.

Also, I tried caffeine and had no problems with it. Taking all my herbs with coffee afterward now, and I can tell a major difference. Thanks for the heads up on that CD.

[Cdsnuts]

These are mostly on the mental side of things. I'd say about 95% mental, 50-60% sexual (didn't test it, girlfriend wasn't feeling well). I'm assuming (from what I've read), that the sexual sides are the last to go away.....those are the slowest improvements I've had.

Also, I tried caffeine and had no problems with it. Taking all my herbs with coffee afterward now, and I can tell a major difference. Thanks for the heads up on that CD.

The caffeine definitely kicks things up a notch. Have you thought about doing a juice feast?

[Maxout777]

The caffeine definitely kicks things up a notch. Have you thought about doing a juice feast?

Definitely does, I'm on the cistanche day of my cycle right now..... can't wait to try with the shilajit, that'll probably kick me off in the morning. My Ant Extract and Cordyceps arrive from SMH today to add into my cycle.

Which leaves me with: He Shou Wu, Cistanche, Shilajit, Rhodiola, Tribulus, Tongkat Ali, Mucuna, Schisandra, Ant Extract, Cordyceps, Maca, and HGW in cycle. Next planned adder to the cycle is a Pine Pollen tincture if I can EVER get my hands on it. Pine Pollen powder daily, and Royal Jelly (straight jelly) twice weekly. I'm trying to decide if I need to throw an AI like DIM/Chrysin/Res as well.

I am planning on doing a juice feast in about another week, I'm on travel for work at the end of this week and that makes it pretty impossible to start one now. I'm planning on doing a week long juice feast when I get back....got the Vitamix ready to go, and I researched the process of doing it with a nutmilk bag that you mentioned in some of your posts (either here or on PH), so I'm just gonna collect the produce when I get back in town and give it a go. From what I've researched, I can still workout on a juice feast, correct? I'm hoping to get some good PFS related gains from the feast, my intermittent water fasting definitely started accelerating my recovery when I did those.

[Cdsnuts]

Definitely does, I'm on the cistanche day of my cycle right now..... can't wait to try with the shilajit, that'll probably kick me off in the morning. My Ant Extract and Cordyceps arrive from SMH today to add into my cycle.

Which leaves me with: He Shou Wu, Cistanche, Shilajit, Rhodiola, Tribulus, Tongkat Ali, Mucuna, Schisandra, Ant Extract, Cordyceps, Maca, and HGW in cycle. Next planned adder to the cycle is a Pine Pollen tincture if I can EVER get my hands on it. Pine Pollen powder daily, and Royal Jelly (straight jelly) twice weekly. I'm trying to decide if I need to throw an AI like DIM/Chrysin/Res as well.

I am planning on doing a juice feast in about another week, I'm on travel for work at the end of this week and that makes it pretty impossible to start one now. I'm planning on doing a week long juice feast when I get back....got the Vitamix ready to go, and I researched the process of doing it with a nutmilk bag that you mentioned in some of your posts (either here or on PH), so I'm just gonna collect the produce when I get back in town and give it a go. From what I've researched, I can still workout on a juice feast, correct? I'm hoping to get some good PFS related gains from the feast, my intermittent water fasting definitely started accelerating my recovery when I did those.

In my experience since discovering pine pollen and using it liberally it seems to do a great job at keeping estrogen in check. I haven't used DIM, Chrysin or any other Estrogen lowering compound since. That is me though, and I seem to have gotten my estrogen baseline to quite a low spot, so this isn't something that I've needed to worry about for quite sometime.

While you can workout during a juice feast, I would use that time and bodily energy for cleansing.....not building. There will be plenty of time for that afterwards. Like.....the rest of your life.....During the juice feast, work on your stretching, mobility and meditation. Just kind of relax and don't stress yourself unnecessarily. If you can do it for two weeks, that would certainly be preferred. The other part of that is if you work out you're going to need another two quarts of juice or more to make up for the calories burned. The bottom line is, you're going to drop weight on the feast. Don't stress about this because you're trying to build muscle. This is one of the reasons why this is best done in the beginning.

If you need support during the feast, we can possibly set up a skype session and I can walk you though a few of the sticking points that people hit in the beginning. Doing this is an exercise in mental fortitude among other things and sometimes people can become emotional and want to quite. You don't realize how much you use food as a crutch or for comfort until you can't have it anymore. You learn alot about yourself during times like this. It is definitely a builder of character along with being one of the most healthful things you can do for your body and mind.

[Maxout777]

In my experience since discovering pine pollen and using it liberally it seems to do a great job at keeping estrogen in check. I haven't used DIM, Chrysin or any other Estrogen lowering compound since. That is me though, and I seem to have gotten my estrogen baseline to quite a low spot, so this isn't something that I've needed to worry about for quite sometime.

While you can workout during a juice feast, I would use that time and bodily energy for cleansing.....not building. There will be plenty of time for that afterwards. Like.....the rest of your life.....During the juice feast, work on your stretching, mobility and meditation. Just kind of relax and don't stress yourself unnecessarily. If you can do it for two weeks, that would certainly be preferred. The other part of that is if you work out you're going to need another two quarts of juice or more to make up for the calories burned. The bottom line is, you're going to drop weight on the feast. Don't stress about this because you're trying to build muscle. This is one of the reasons why this is best done in the beginning.

If you need support during the feast, we can possibly set up a skype session and I can walk you though a few of the sticking points that people hit in the beginning. Doing this is an exercise in mental fortitude among other things and sometimes people can become emotional and want to quite. You don't realize how much you use food as a crutch or for comfort until you can't have it anymore. You learn alot about yourself during times like this. It is definitely a builder of character along with being one of the most healthful things you can do for your body and mind.

Ok, I guess taking pine pollen daily would be fine then. My estrogen level has never been high after quitting SP, so that might not be necessary.

Thanks for the explanation on the juice feast. I'm definitely willing to lose some muscle to take steps forward in the other aspects. And thank you for offering the Skype session too, I know it can be annoying having to answer questions regarding this topic, but for guys willing to put in the work and follow the protocol, you're an absolute lifesaver to be able to talk to while going through the process. You couldn't be more right on the building of character, that's what this whole process has been for me. You don't realize how much you take little things like being able to be a true alpha male and perform on a day to day basis until it is taken away from you. Knowing what I was, and how great that life was now that I've experienced that, has been a great motivator for me to get to get serious and get my ass in gear following this routine. Life's 1% what happens to you and 99% how you react to that, and I refuse to let this supplement define my life and call my shots.

I've been hitting the juice feast website hard, got a pretty defined protocol and schedule ready to rock when I get back from work travel.

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, I guess taking pine pollen daily would be fine then. My estrogen level has never been high after quitting SP, so that might not be necessary.

Thanks for the explanation on the juice feast. I'm definitely willing to lose some muscle to take steps forward in the other aspects. And thank you for offering the Skype session too, I know it can be annoying having to answer questions regarding this topic, but for guys willing to put in the work and follow the protocol, you're an absolute lifesaver to be able to talk to while going through the process. You couldn't be more right on the building of character, that's what this whole process has been for me. You don't realize how much you take little things like being able to be a true alpha male and perform on a day to day basis until it is taken away from you. Knowing what I was, and how great that life was now that I've experienced that, has been a great motivator for me to get to get serious and get my ass in gear following this routine. Life's 1% what happens to you and 99% how you react to that, and I refuse to let this supplement define my life and call my shots.

I've been hitting the juice feast website hard, got a pretty defined protocol and schedule ready to rock when I get back from work travel.

You're going to come through this a better man than you were prior. That's just the way this ends up shaking out.....everytime.

[Atticas]

Maxout, if you're doing the juice fast next week starting Monday, you should hmu on inbox throughout the day, because that's when I'll be starting my juice fast as well.

We can keep each other in check.

From what I've been told and heard, supposedly the first 3 days are the roughest.

[Maxout777]

Maxout, if you're doing the juice fast next week starting Monday, you should hmu on inbox throughout the day, because that's when I'll be starting my juice fast as well.

We can keep each other in check.

From what I've been told and heard, supposedly the first 3 days are the roughest.

Sure thing man, sounds like a plan to me. As of right now, I am planning on starting it on Monday.

[Atticas]

It's gonna be interesting to see how we both comply with the protocol over the next few months.

We're basically near in the same boat, and we both are sitting on around the same amount of herbs.

I've already taken a few for fun and shiiiiiiiiiiiit do they work lol

[Maxout777]

It's gonna be interesting to see how we both comply with the protocol over the next few months.

We're basically near in the same boat, and we both are sitting on around the same amount of herbs.

I've already taken a few for fun and shiiiiiiiiiiiit do they work lol

Oh yeah, I've been cycling them for a few weeks now and I can already tell major improvement along with heavy lifting and HIIT sprints, which I was already doing for a month before them. They definitely added a boost!

[Atticas]

I haven't done any HITT yet, but plan to after this fast.

Honestly can't wait to hit the track again... it's been too long.

Hey, does anyone here have any tips of vegetables/fruits/whatever I could drink during the juice fast so that I don't lose toooooooooooo much muscle?

[Maxout777]

I'm just planing on taking the hit on the muscle loss - if it gives me benefit for my PFS, like CD said, I have the rest of my life to build muscle. I think the HIIT will surprise you, at first I thought it would make me weaker but I FEEL GREAT after finishing them and hitting an ice cold shower. I take nothing but cold showers now too, the benefits of those are amazing. Takes a lot of willpower to make it a habit, but that's the kinda willpower building you need to follow through with something like this.

Also, I took the Polyrhachis Ant Extract today with coffee, and other than the fact that I put literal ants in my mouth and took them, they really gave me a jolt.

[Maxout777]

Looking to add a Toco supplement to my regime for LH sensitivity....can anyone suggest a brand that works best? Was looking at Toco-Caps from Wicked Supplements.....but it has beta-sitosterol, which is in Saw Palmetto. Figured I'd ask people who might be more in the know than I am on this one.

[rahaysa]

maxout i have used tococaps and its nothing close to a FIN or SP... its good for hair and nails..

[Maxout777]

maxout i have used tococaps and its nothing close to a FIN or SP... its good for hair and nails..

Good deal, thanks for the heads up. I'll cop some.

Glad to see you over here too, I followed your story on one of the other websites. You always had a positive attitude which is rare to find on those. I just can't stay around there because they are all pits of despair and bring you down. Hope your recovery is still going well, my friend!

[rahaysa]

thanks mate .. did you have a user name ... i cant recollect the current username in other website ..

ya took some time to get on board due to technical issues .. but finally here .. good place to be ...

[rahaysa]

one thing to note though is i started to consume tococaps with krill oil as per the advice... dint like the krill oil..seemed to worsen my condition... just the tocacaps is good

[Maxout777]

one thing to note though is i started to consume tococaps with krill oil as per the advice... dint like the krill oil..seemed to worsen my condition... just the tocacaps is good

Yeah I only take a low dose fish oil EOD, I don't want to get out of hand with that. Thanks for the heads up - my username on PH is the same as here. My username on SolvePFS is nitrousxx. I never got very involved in the latter site, just remember your story from there. I was just glad to see that you had made strides with the herb cycling, always good to see another person improve. (Especially when all everyone ever says is it can't be done.)

[English]

Thanks for the article, I'm going to take a look at it.

This LH level was taken about a month after those T levels, and I was already taking Tongkat Ali and Tribulus, so I have a feeling that may have thrown it off. My original LH with those T levels was 3.7. Would that make more sense with my levels?

Gonna do a dig of that article and see what I can tailor around myself. Thanks again for the information!

Yeah even at 3.7 that is a high LH number for free t of low normal. To give you some comparison, my last t number was over 800 including high normal free T and my LH was definitely under 3, i think it was 2.7 from memory.
It's pretty difficult to go overboard with calcium and magnesium as both are needed and used in virtually every function of the body.
Following CD's suggestion, another great way of getting both calcium and magnesium is by making your own Kefir. Kefir could be made by a monkey it is so easy to do, and it is an incredibly cheap and effective pro-biotic. Although it is still dairy, if you use goats milk then the protein is A2 type which is the easy to digest type (it is A1 proteins responsible for many dairy intolerances) and most of the lactose gets fermented and converted. If you really want to avoid lactose completely, simply add some lactose enzyme to it after you've fermented it to your tastes. Many people cure themselves completely of crohns disease by taking Kefir daily, it is that good, and if you're doing that, you may as well ferment Kombucha too which again, is a probiotic. It is great tasting and you can ferment it so it is fizzy, making it something you can drink cold as an alcohol replacement - actually it does have a small amount of alcohol in it but the postives way outstrip the small volume of alcohol in it.

[Maxout777]

Yeah even at 3.7 that is a high LH number for free t of low normal. To give you some comparison, my last t number was over 800 including high normal free T and my LH was definitely under 3, i think it was 2.7 from memory.
It's pretty difficult to go overboard with calcium and magnesium as both are needed and used in virtually every function of the body.
Following CD's suggestion, another great way of getting both calcium and magnesium is by making your own Kefir. Kefir could be made by a monkey it is so easy to do, and it is an incredibly cheap and effective pro-biotic. Although it is still dairy, if you use goats milk then the protein is A2 type which is the easy to digest type (it is A1 proteins responsible for many dairy intolerances) and most of the lactose gets fermented and converted. If you really want to avoid lactose completely, simply add some lactose enzyme to it after you've fermented it to your tastes. Many people cure themselves completely of crohns disease by taking Kefir daily, it is that good, and if you're doing that, you may as well ferment Kombucha too which again, is a probiotic. It is great tasting and you can ferment it so it is fizzy, making it something you can drink cold as an alcohol replacement - actually it does have a small amount of alcohol in it but the postives way outstrip the small volume of alcohol in it.

Thanks for the help English, I'll definitely take those suggestions into consideration. I'm accumulating quite the arsenal of tactics to combat this shit! I'm having bloods done again soon, my GP has me regularly doing hormone tests. He has no idea about PFS or what is going on but he did recognize the low T levels and wants to keep track of them. I'm interested to see where they sit - I'm feeling much better than my last test.

In other news, I finally made ground in the sexual department. Far from saying I'm back - but I can go into action without PDE5s and actually get a decent erection from stimulus instead of manually having to bring it up. Just the kinda improvement I needed to see to help see me through this feast!

[Maxout777]

Got a few new items in to add to the supplement arsenal today.

NutraBio Mag/Cal/Vit D, all in one powder (still going to supplement my normal Vit D supp though)
NutraBio L-Citrulline 2g/scoop powder
NutraBio L-Tyrosine 500 mg/scoop powder
NutraBio Tribulus (60% - highest I could find that I trust, as Liftmode is still out of stock)

and the long awaited Pine Pollen Tincture from SMH - going to add that in as a rotation item.

Now going to add Toco-Caps I believe, and that should be about all I need. Don't really want to "over-supplement" if I don't have to.

[Cdsnuts]

Got a few new items in to add to the supplement arsenal today.

NutraBio Mag/Cal/Vit D, all in one powder (still going to supplement my normal Vit D supp though)
NutraBio L-Citrulline 2g/scoop powder
NutraBio L-Tyrosine 500 mg/scoop powder
NutraBio Tribulus (60% - highest I could find that I trust, as Liftmode is still out of stock)

and the long awaited Pine Pollen Tincture from SMH - going to add that in as a rotation item.

Now going to add Toco-Caps I believe, and that should be about all I need. Don't really want to "over-supplement" if I don't have to.
IMO, you can't really over supplement if your supplementing with plant-based, Whole Food nutritional supplements such as herbs.

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[Maxout777]

IMO, you can't really over supplement if your supplementing with plant-based, Whole Food nutritional supplements such as herbs.

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Oh I agree, I was more referring to vitamins and amino acids/supplements more-so than the herbs. I'll keep adding herbs as I can, they help too much for me to ignore them.

CD, is it normal for the mental aspect to take a step back during a fast/feast? To step forward in the future I'm guessing. While I've seen gains on the sexual side (probably just a coincidence given that I'm only three days in), I don't feel near as sharp mentally as I did before starting.

Or I guess this could just be due to the nature of healing (4 forward, 2 back, etc.).

[Cdsnuts]

That is the nature of cleansing my friend... Don't be surprised if you feel that way the whole time although usually you'll feel shitty and then you'll get a burst of clarity and you'll feel shitty again and then you'll get another burst of clarity, so on and so forth. In the cleansing circles it is recommended to cleanse to completion where you stop having the shitty Cycles altogether . In the real world though people don't typically go long enough for that to manifest.

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[Cdsnuts]

For added support if you do some searches online for people who log their juice feast you'll be able to see that what you're experiencing is completely normal and to be expected.

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[Atticas]

Got a few new items in to add to the supplement arsenal today.

NutraBio Mag/Cal/Vit D, all in one powder (still going to supplement my normal Vit D supp though)
NutraBio L-Citrulline 2g/scoop powder
NutraBio L-Tyrosine 500 mg/scoop powder
NutraBio Tribulus (60% - highest I could find that I trust, as Liftmode is still out of stock)

and the long awaited Pine Pollen Tincture from SMH - going to add that in as a rotation item.

Now going to add Toco-Caps I believe, and that should be about all I need. Don't really want to "over-supplement" if I don't have to.

I might have to jump on that brand of Tribulus as well cuz I didn't find any other brand I fully trusted...

Btw, do you or anyone else here have any idea where to get some good, quality Suma Root Extract?

[Maxout777]

For added support if you do some searches online for people who log their juice feast you'll be able to see that what you're experiencing is completely normal and to be expected.

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Thanks for the information my friend - I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. It makes complete sense, in all honesty. Sometimes I just have to ask stupid questions to silence the mind (which is a very powerful thing).

@Atticas,

I recommend anything NutraBio offers as far as supplements/aminos/protein goes. I used them for years prior to this whole predicament just for my weight lifting needs, and I LOVE their stuff.

[Maxout777]

Feeling a little better today, like a "burst in clarity" that CD described before. If it will just stay with me until lunch time I'll be fine with that work-wise.

Also noticing that even without working out, I'm looking a lot more shredded/defined. Like I dropped what I called the "BS weight" before that would never go away. Not really losing muscle as much as I thought I would, so that is good.

[Atticas]

Feeling a little better today, like a "burst in clarity" that CD described before. If it will just stay with me until lunch time I'll be fine with that work-wise.

Also noticing that even without working out, I'm looking a lot more shredded/defined. Like I dropped what I called the "BS weight" before that would never go away. Not really losing muscle as much as I thought I would, so that is good.

Kind of been noticing the same here.

I'm definitely losing some size, but I'm beginning to see my abs when I breathe again, and my arm size isn't decreasing thatttt much

[Maxout777]

Nothing much to report on this weekend besides that I feel pretty good, can get hands free erections from sexual thoughts, and my nuts itch again. Life is good right now.

To anyone following this thread silently The routine stands. Get on it, and get after it. It's still very early for me but even I've noticed improvements.

[Cdsnuts]

Nothing much to report on this weekend besides that I feel pretty good, can get hands free erections from sexual thoughts, and my nuts itch again. Life is good right now.

To anyone following this thread silently The routine stands. Get on it, and get after it. It's still very early for me but even I've noticed improvements.
Just so you know you can go on this routine for as long as you can stand to do it. The longer, the better. Feel free to go for 2 weeks if you can manage it.

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[Maxout777]

Just so you know you can go on this routine for as long as you can stand to do it. The longer, the better. Feel free to go for 2 weeks if you can manage it.

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Roger. I've almost found myself looking forward to all of these positive increments I notice. Even beyond the fasting. It's almost like a game to me, the more achievements the better.

I think more than anything it just feels good to be taking my life back into my own hands. However slow it is. Considering I was almost impotent and bedridden with anxiety and brain fog and could barely work two months ago, I'll take it 11 times out of 10.

[Cdsnuts]

Roger. I've almost found myself looking forward to all of these positive increments I notice. Even beyond the fasting. It's almost like a game to me, the more achievements the better.

I think more than anything it just feels good to be taking my life back into my own hands. However slow it is. Considering I was almost impotent and bedridden with anxiety and brain fog and could barely work two months ago, I'll take it 11 times out of 10.
When you have fully recovered you'll appreciate life like no other person will. And if you continue with the regimen and make this a complete lifestyle change you will surpass the potential you had before you got sick.

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[Maxout777]

When you have fully recovered you'll appreciate life like no other person will. And if you continue with the regimen and make this a complete lifestyle change you will surpass the potential you had before you got sick.

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Absolutely, I'll be honest with you, the first time I saw your recovery post was in my initial two week, "let's see if I just recover normally" phase, and I thought "man, he really had to do a lot and the people at PH here say he still has to do it to maintain" and was hoping I didn't have to ever cross the bridge to find recovery. However, I'm almost glad I'm getting to experience this (don't get me wrong I'd trade it all to go back to 100% immediately in a heartbeat, who wouldn't?) because it's teaching me even more than I already knew before that you don't get worthwhile shit in life unless you work for it. And also I see why you continue to live this lifestyle even though you don't have to after recovering initially. If it brought you out of hell, and I know you were way worse off than I ever was, why would you not continue this to maintain optimal health in a normal life? The people that laugh about continuing to do it (or continue doubting your own recovery, as well as entropy's and English's) are the same people who when I'm out with friends now give me hell about not drinking. As if somehow your decisions affect their lives. I live MY life, not theirs, why the hell do they care?

People will use absolutely anything as a crutch to justify why they are as they are, and that's exactly why they stay how they are. PFS or not, anything in life can be boiled down to that.

[Cdsnuts]

Absolutely, I'll be honest with you, the first time I saw your recovery post was in my initial two week, "let's see if I just recover normally" phase, and I thought "man, he really had to do a lot and the people at PH here say he still has to do it to maintain" and was hoping I didn't have to ever cross the bridge to find recovery. However, I'm almost glad I'm getting to experience this (don't get me wrong I'd trade it all to go back to 100% immediately in a heartbeat, who wouldn't?) because it's teaching me even more than I already knew before that you don't get worthwhile shit in life unless you work for it. And also I see why you continue to live this lifestyle even though you don't have to after recovering initially. If it brought you out of hell, and I know you were way worse off than I ever was, why would you not continue this to maintain optimal health in a normal life? The people that laugh about continuing to do it (or continue doubting your own recovery, as well as entropy's and English's) are the same people who when I'm out with friends now give me hell about not drinking. As if somehow your decisions affect their lives. I live MY life, not theirs, why the hell do they care?

People will use absolutely anything as crutch to justify why they are as they are, and that's exactly why they stay how they are. PFS or not, anything in life can be boiled down to that.

As I've said from the beginning when I read your posts....you have what it takes to get what you want. THIS is the attitude and outlook that is needed not only for beating PFS, but for accomplishing ANYTHING you want out of life. It's all in your hands. The outcome is completely dependent upon YOU, and no one else. When this is finally realized by those trying to make positive changes, it is a very powerful feeling.

What you bring up about other people is something worth mentioning. For some reason, some people feel threatened by the decisions of others because it puts their own actions into the forefront of their minds. They see you doing something good for yourself and they get guilty...it's as if they think your actions are judging their actions, which couldn't be further from the truth. I get it all the time. When people see the way I eat at say, a barbecue, when I'm taking my burgers or hot dogs (yes, I eat them....lol) directly on the plate with no bun, or on top of a huge serving of greens and salad, ultimately there is some type of comment. I dont give a fuck about what anyone else eats, or does for that matter if it's not effecting me, and they shouldn't either. Funny enough it's always the the people that have completely let themselves go and have given up. Don't feel threatened about what's on my plate because you know it should be what's on yours.

Just keep at it and you will be surprised how good you can actually feel on a daily basis without taking drugs...never stop. It keeps getting better and better. Even still to this day when I think I'm completely at the top of my game, I will periodically get another boost which far surpasses anything I thought was possibly. I don't HAVE to do anything to maintain. I CHOOSE to keep doing it and for very good reason.

And....even if you had to do all of these things to maintain a healthy sex life and life in general....WHY WOULDN'T YOU?

You'll get there. Never stop.

[Maxout777]

Absolutely agree with 100% of what you said there. I'll never stop. That's what kept me going through the dark times.

I can't explain to you how much I'll forever be grateful for you posting the outline you did to get back. What a lifesaver that was. I know you had no one to do that for you, and I respect you big time for that chief. Well fucking done.

[rahaysa]

Maxout ... you are absolutely right... many many people are grateful to CD for posting that outline .. it had the power .. the motivation .. the bluntenss .. the harsh words .. everything ... required to get the fuck out of our miserable lives and get going on the right path... even i was beaten down by the horror stories at PH ..until i saw CDs posts...
that was really a game changer for me atleast

[Maxout777]

Completely agree with you Rahaysa.

@CD,

Should I limit my caffeine intake to only when I'm taking herbs, or as long as it doesn't bother me anymore is it fair game?

[Cdsnuts]

Completely agree with you Rahaysa.

@CD,

Should I limit my caffeine intake to only when I'm taking herbs, or as long as it doesn't bother me anymore is it fair game?

If you're not suffering from anxiety or insomnia like most pfs guys do then it's perfectly alright to take in some extra caffeine. I would still try and keep it under 300mg/day. I used to only take it with my herbs once in the morning and then with my afternoon herb dose as well. I always had horrible sleep issues so I really needed to keep it as early into the afternoon as I could.

[Maxout777]

If you're not suffering from anxiety or insomnia like most pfs guys do then it's perfectly alright to take in some extra caffeine. I would still try and keep it under 300mg/day. I used to only take it with my herbs once in the morning and then with my afternoon herb dose as well. I always had horrible sleep issues so I really needed to keep it as early into the afternoon as I could.

Gotcha. Yeah I think I'll limit it to just the two doses. My anxiety isn't very bad at all. Still comes and goes but I think that's just normal for anybody. My insomnia isn't as bad anymore. I can easily get 7 hours a night, and I usually get more than that. It's definitely much better than it was.

The scariest part about this is I was almost diagnosed with narcolepsy prior to this whole thing....early in my life. And normally it took nothing for me to go to sleep. Crazy how all that changed.

[Maxout777]

I'm thinking about making an advance buy and finish my supplement purchasing for awhile - was also looking at pro-hormones. I know I'm not really ready to run one, probably for awhile. But are they still suggested for the "finishing touches" as they are called when the time comes? If so, I was wondering which one I should purchase, wanted to go ahead and get a bottle and stash it away in case I use it. Looked at Super R Andro, appears it's probably my best bet from research, but if anyone else has any idea on what I should purchase, I'd love to hear opinions.

NOTE: I know I'm not ready to do them now, nor am I asking which one I should do now. This is simply future planning purposes.

[Cdsnuts]

If you haven't done so yet, try the new Rhodiola.....stuff kicks ass. Rhodiola rosea - Adaptogen - Super Man Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/rhodiola/cdsnuts/)

And if going the prohormone route, which I'd suggest, go with the R-andro.

[Maxout777]

If you haven't done so yet, try the new Rhodiola.....stuff kicks ass. Rhodiola rosea - Adaptogen - Super Man Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/rhodiola/cdsnuts/)

And if going the prohormone route, which I'd suggest, go with the R-andro.

I still have a lot left of my other Rhodiola, but I may just go ahead and grab the new one - I saw the email on it, it looks really awesome. Can you tell a major difference versus the first kind they had?

I'm grabbing SMH's Tongkat Ali too, prior I was using Olympus Labs LJ100 (bought this long before I started the protocol). Also saw the CBD oil that they released today. Perfect for people like me who have joint injuries through sports. SMH is a great company.

Regarding prohormones, I figured the R-Andro is the way to go, I spent a little time digging around here....so I guess I'll go ahead and make that purchase. Am I correct in waiting to use it till later, after a few months of herb cycling?

[Cdsnuts]

I still have a lot left of my other Rhodiola, but I may just go ahead and grab the new one - I saw the email on it, it looks really awesome. Can you tell a major difference versus the first kind they had?

I'm grabbing SMH's Tongkat Ali too, prior I was using Olympus Labs LJ100 (bought this long before I started the protocol). Also saw the CBD oil that they released today. Perfect for people like me who have joint injuries through sports. SMH is a great company.

Regarding prohormones, I figured the R-Andro is the way to go, I spent a little time digging around here....so I guess I'll go ahead and make that purchase. Am I correct in waiting to use it till later, after a few months of herb cycling?

I do notice a difference. It's alot stronger and you use alot less of it because of the extraction method used. The old stuff I would choke down almost a tablespoon and this stuff I get the same effect from an 1/8 of a teaspoon. Alot easier on the digestive track. The old stuff is still good obviously, you just need way more of it.

SMH's Tongkat is the BEST I've ever used. Hands down.

Really excited about them going in the direction of CBD.....I've taken this stuff orally before and it's amazing. Not THIS stuff, but other CBD edibles.

Honestly, I'd say given what your symptoms are and where you are with this, you would be okay running a 6 week cycle at 400mg/day. Stay on the herbs for the remainder of May and then do a summer cycle. Jump right back on the herbs afterwards. I believe you're healthy enough and in a good enough place to do it.

What ever became of your Juice feast?

[Maxout777]

I do notice a difference. It's alot stronger and you use alot less of it because of the extraction method used. The old stuff I would choke down almost a tablespoon and this stuff I get the same effect from an 1/8 of a teaspoon. Alot easier on the digestive track. The old stuff is still good obviously, you just need way more of it.

SMH's Tongkat is the BEST I've ever used. Hands down.

Really excited about them going in the direction of CBD.....I've taken this stuff orally before and it's amazing. Not THIS stuff, but other CBD edibles.

Honestly, I'd say given what your symptoms are and where you are with this, you would be okay running a 6 week cycle at 400mg/day. Stay on the herbs for the remainder of May and then do a summer cycle. Jump right back on the herbs afterwards. I believe you're healthy enough and in a good enough place to do it.

What ever became of your Juice feast?

I'll look into it, I too have to take a bunch of Rhodiola to get the effect. I also personally think it takes hideous but hey, it's for the effect, right? I've also heard great things about their Tongkat so I'm looking forward to it.

I broke feast after a week. I gained some ground from it I think. After all the feeling like shit and cycling back and forth. I refed on whole produce like broccoli and eventually moved back to chicken/paleo today. I'm looking forward to seeing what gains I get on my next "upswing". I'm going to do another one once work goes down after the summer when I can take a whole week off.

So cycling R-andro for 6 weeks, then use the herbs as my PCT I assume. No need for a RES100 or the sort? I'm hoping this DHT pro hormone will provide another level of improvement. I'd say I'm close to being functional where I can put this in the back of my mind and really get to a better mental state. Where I can just kinda wait out the remainder to come back. If I remember correctly, it always seemed to give you a better baseline when you finished a cycle (from your posts on the hellish forum).

Also, I LOVE holosync. That's a major heads up.

[Cdsnuts]

I find the DHT prohormones Mello enough and the herbs strong enough to not warrant a specific PCT so to speak. I run them both enough to say this with confidence.

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[Maxout777]

I find the DHT prohormones Mello enough and the herbs strong enough to not warrant a specific PCT so to speak. I run them both enough to say this with confidence.

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Sounds solid. Ordering the R Andro as we speak.

[Brazilianguy]

Sounds solid. Ordering the R Andro as we speak.

Hey maxout, I'm happy to see that you're improving! I can tell you that herbs are awesome to recover, tribulus made me feel 75% cured once, I enjoyed the time chasing all the girls I could and I had some great adventures lol. Follow the advices cd told you, don't drink, don't smoke and don't do drugs. I did the 3, did progesterone cream and Panax ginseng (it blocks 5ar and its anti-andrenergic) and crashed. Then I decided to follow cdnuts advice, I did juice feasting, herbs, good diet, took multivitamins, zinc, magnesium, b6, and got really good results again, I'm waking up with morning wood some days, I have energy, some libido, I still have way to go to get recovered but I'm finally relieved that I know that I'm on the right track. When you recover you will feel the best man in the world, I say this because when I was 75% I was very proud of myself and feeling I was the king.

Cd, are you still taking vitamins and minerals? I think I should go back on them and also drink green smoothies so my supplements may work again or maybe I should take a break and restart in the future. The best thing is that after each new better baseline the results don't drop, it's amazing.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey maxout, I'm happy to see that you're improving! I can tell you that herbs are awesome to recover, tribulus made me feel 75% cured once, I enjoyed the time chasing all the girls I could and I had some great adventures lol. Follow the advices cd told you, don't drink, don't smoke and don't do drugs. I did the 3, did progesterone cream and Panax ginseng (it blocks 5ar and its anti-andrenergic) and crashed. Then I decided to follow cdnuts advice, I did juice feasting, herbs, good diet, took multivitamins, zinc, magnesium, b6, and got really good results again, I'm waking up with morning wood some days, I have energy, some libido, I still have way to go to get recovered but I'm finally relieved that I know that I'm on the right track. When you recover you will feel the best man in the world, I say this because when I was 75% I was very proud of myself and feeling I was the king.

Cd, are you still taking vitamins and minerals? I think I should go back on them and also drink green smoothies so my supplements may work again or maybe I should take a break and restart in the future. The best thing is that after each new better baseline the results don't drop, it's amazing.
I don't take any vitamins or minerals anymore as I get all of them from my diet including juices and smoothies

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[rahaysa]

Hey man,

Thanks for the kind words and advice, I appreciate it. Glad to see that you're improving too! I accidentally took a Tribulus supplement that had Panax ginseng in it a couple of months ago for a week or two - trashed that shit the minute I found out it was in it. I have a decent baseline as we speak - looking forward to more and more improvements as the months go on. Hoping the R-Andro kicks it up a notch too - but I've learned to keep my expectations to a minimum in this whole debacle.

I've only been off SP for 3 1/2 months, so I think some natural healing is going on too. I found that I was making improvements with new baselines without doing CD's protocol before starting. Since starting the protocol, it seems to have accelerated, which is just what I wanted. Best of luck!

as soon as i see a SP Sufferer i become interested ... and now that i am in the same boat as u are it is good to have a partner... i used both fin and SP , but crashed on SP fyi..

maxout whats with panx ginseng .. i have taken that and dont seem to have any problems from its limited use .. and TRIB is one sup i have problem with .. i take trib from any source and the morning feels almost normal as prefin but the evenings become hell..

[Maxout777]

as soon as i see a SP Sufferer i become interested ... and now that i am in the same boat as u are it is good to have a partner... i used both fin and SP , but crashed on SP fyi..

maxout whats with panx ginseng .. i have taken that and dont seem to have any problems from its limited use .. and TRIB is one sup i have problem with .. i take trib from any source and the morning feels almost normal as prefin but the evenings become hell..

I never really had any problems on Panax Ginseng, I just read all the bad reviews on it online and trashed it. I wanted a pure Tribulus anyway and this obviously wasn't one.

[Atticas]

I never really had any problems on Panax Ginseng, I just read all the bad reviews on it online and trashed it. I wanted a pure Tribulus anyway and this obviously wasn't one.

What brand of Trib are you getting on Max?

[Maxout777]

What brand of Trib are you getting on Max?

The one I mentioned a few pages back, from NutraBio - It's NutraBio Tribulus Terrestis (60%). I really like it so far. It's not too expensive either. Also, I love all of NutraBio's Amino Acids, in case you are interested. I've found that L-Tyrosine and L-Citrulline are real helpful in our condition.

[5 alpha victim]

Tribulus Terrestris Extract - 95% Steroidal Saponins 100 caps - High Strength! - Superfoods Australia (http://superfoodsaustralia.com.au/tribulus-terrestris-extract-95-steroidal-saponins-100-caps-high-strength/)

This trib product may be worth a try . I'm using it now for my Trib day with my herb cycle. For me it's worked better than the trib from world abs . This will continue to be my trib of choice until lift mode is back in stock so I can try theirs or until SMH comes out with their own trib product.

[5 alpha victim]

The one I mentioned a few pages back, from NutraBio - It's NutraBio Tribulus Terrestis (60%). I really like it so far. It's not too expensive either. Also, I love all of NutraBio's Amino Acids, in case you are interested. I've found that L-Tyrosine and L-Citrulline are real helpful in our condition.

Congrats on the progress you have been making. What do the L-Tyrosine and L-Citrulline target ? T production?

Im not familer with what they are but I'm going to read up on this

Even though we know muscle loss is not our top priority to be focusing on, how much did you lose during the week ?

It's amazing how many guys have had problems with Saw P... On this bored alone there are three including me. Leads us to believe saw P truly is at least just as potent as the prescription strength 5AR inhibitors

[Maxout777]

Congrats on the progress you have been making. What do the L-Tyrosine and L-Citrulline target ? T production?

Im not familer with what they are but I'm going to read up on this

Even though we know muscle loss is not our top priority to be focusing on, how much did you lose during the week ?

It's amazing how many guys have had problems with Saw P... On this bored alone there are three including me. Leads us to believe saw P truly is at least just as potent as the prescription strength 5AR inhibitors


Hey man,

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. I hope you're making good progress too! A lot of mine I believe is because I caught it so early and hopped on the protocol, so it's natural healing and "forced" healing going on. The L-Tyrosine is great for mood and focus, and I've even read where it helps with DHT conversion? I don't have any studies to link to you but it definitely does something for me. L-Citrulline is a precursor to L-Arginine which is a precursor to NO. Helps with erections. Some normal "non-PFS" guys have cured their ED with L-Citrulline. Highly recommend.

Mindset has helped me the most, and I can thank CD and especially English who helped hammer in my head via PM to just drop the worry and checking of symptoms. My mindset is helping my body heal. I thought a lot of that was bullshit when I originally read it, but it is definitely real. Major shout out to those guys for pointing me in the right directions.

As of today, if I was going to say based on how I feel today alone, I'd say I'm at 80% right now. Maybe even higher. I'm having a great weekend. I can have sex without PDE5's, and last. I feel no semi crash or adverse effect after orgasm, and I used to. Erections are pretty easy to obtain, 15-30 seconds at most (still need more work in that area), and I'm in such a good mental state that I rarely notice or think about my symptoms. While I'm sure that I'll probably come back down a bit and have to raise up again (4 forward, 2 back, etc,), I am absolutely convinced that I will beat this. No matter how long it takes.

Just for a bit of encouragement for everyone, that is following this on here or silently, three months ago I was essentially crushed, bedridden, fogged to hell and considering quitting my job and getting something to get by. I was worried I would lose my girlfriend and that would be my final straw. Three months later, following the protocol for a month and a half, along with some natural healing, I'm now moving into a leadership position on my work team. My life is going on as I planned it, not some shitty syndrome.

I'll probably be reporting on here less and less but I'll be on from time to time just posting on normal topics. I'm going to run the Super R Andro in June, and I'm looking real forward to that.

Best of luck to everyone!

[Maxout777]

Also, I missed one question. I definitely lost muscle during the week long fast but I'm not sure how much of the ~10 lbs was muscle. I lost a lot of pesky fat that wouldn't go away though. I can lift close to the same of what I could before though.....not sure if that's supposed to happen but it's not too noticeable. Definitely think that feast helped me a ton though.

[rahaysa]

Congrats on the progress you have been making. What do the L-Tyrosine and L-Citrulline target ? T production?

Im not familer with what they are but I'm going to read up on this

Even though we know muscle loss is not our top priority to be focusing on, how much did you lose during the week ?

It's amazing how many guys have had problems with Saw P... On this bored alone there are three including me. Leads us to believe saw P truly is at least just as potent as the prescription strength 5AR inhibitors

5 alpha ... Saw palmetto in my opinion is far more dangerous than fin... and i find myself stupid while considering Saw P.. because i knew it was 5Alpha reductase inhibition action that is problem ... whether chemical or natural ... but how stupid can one be to choose a natural 5alpha inhibitor ... when both fin and SP do the same thing ...fuck up 5 alpha ...

[Maxout777]

I've got some new bloods to report on. I'm pretty happy about them, too. First bloods in almost two months.

Total T: 619 ng/dL (348-1197)
Free T: 15.8 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)
Estradiol: 20.3 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)
DHEA: 271.1 ug/dL (138.5-475.2)
PSA: 0.3 ng/mL (0.0-4.0) (this is always under 0.5, I'm guessing that is good?)

So definitely got a big boost in Total T, and a decent boost in Free T. Headed in the right direction.

[rahaysa]

I've got some new bloods to report on. I'm pretty happy about them, too. First bloods in almost two months.

Total T: 619 ng/dL (348-1197)
Free T: 15.8 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)
Estradiol: 20.3 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)
DHEA: 271.1 ug/dL (138.5-475.2)
PSA: 0.3 ng/mL (0.0-4.0) (this is always under 0.5, I'm guessing that is good?)

So definitely got a big boost in Total T, and a decent boost in Free T. Headed in the right direction.

maxout what herbs are you rotating now

[Maxout777]

maxout what herbs are you rotating now

Just for future reference I'm going to post a list of all my supplements and routine for people who are interested. It's pretty much CDs regime just tweaked a little bit. I won't be on the forum as much (as English has suggested, just came back today in a moment of weakness as I'm currently in a little downswing. But nothing like I was before. Can't wait to swing back up again.)

Super Man Herbs:

Tongkat Ali
Ashwaghanda tincture
Eluthero
Maral Root
Cordyceps
Polyrhachis Ant
Schishandra
Mucuna
Cistanche
Rhodiola
Shilajit pitch
He Shou Wu
Pine Pollen tincture (daily atm, moving to cycling on my next bottle)
Pine Pollen powder (daily)
Royal Jelly (2-3 times a week) (not from SMH, from GNC, in the tub)

NutraBio:

L-Tyrosine Powder - daily.
L-Citrulline Powder - daily.
Tribulus (60%) - I cycle this with my SMH products.

Natural Vitality:

Natural Calm magnesium supplement - daily

......Then I use a multivitamin, vitamin D3 (10000IU), fish oil, calcium, boron, tocotrienol cap, and choline daily. Use Sorghum (grinded up in a powder, thanks FPR for the fantastic idea) in my protein shakes daily. I also take S. boulardii probiotic and L-Glutamine daily, and drink kombucha a 4-5 times a week for gut (shout out to English).

Workout Routine:

Monday/Thursday: Legs/Abs - 5x6 heavy lifts, squats, calf raises, leg lifts and extensions
Tuesday/Friday: Arms (Bis/Tris/Forearms) 5x6 heavy lifts, a rotation of multiple lifts I've learned over the years
Wednesday/Saturday: Chest/Shoulders: 5x6 heavy lifts, bench/incline bench/cable crossovers, and rotated shoulder exercises.
Sunday: Relaxation/recovery
HIIT: Tuesday/Friday 6x100 yard sprints, all out. 8 if I'm feeling giddy. Which is rare after the 6, lol.

Meditation:

Holosync daily - usually in PM.

Diet:

Paleo with carb backloading.
Intermittent fasting at least once a week.
24 hour water fast at least once a month, usually more frequent.

This should pretty much answer ANY question anyone has that I'm doing from here on out - which is what I wanted to leave as I won't be on here as much. I'm waiting for my Super R-Andro Rx (DHT prohormone) to arrive and then I'm going to run a 6 week cycle at 400 mg/day by recommendation of CD.

And as we all know, stay away from Propecia Help and SolvePFS. Anytime I'm going through a rough patch or need some motivation to get through, just remember, set it (the routine) and forget it. I can always lay my head down at the end of the day knowing I did everything I could to better myself. And guess what, that is just what is happening.

I am getting better.

[rahaysa]

Just for future reference I'm going to post a list of all my supplements and routine for people who are interested. It's pretty much CDs regime just tweaked a little bit. I won't be on the forum as much (as English has suggested, just came back today in a moment of weakness as I'm currently in a little downswing. But nothing like I was before. Can't wait to swing back up again.)

Super Man Herbs:

Tongkat Ali
Ashwaghanda tincture
Eluthero
Maral Root
Cordyceps
Polyrhachis Ant
Schishandra
Mucuna
Cistanche
Rhodiola
Shilajit pitch
He Shou Wu
Pine Pollen tincture (daily atm, moving to cycling on my next bottle)
Pine Pollen powder (daily)
Royal Jelly (2-3 times a week) (not from SMH, from GNC, in the tub)

NutraBio:

L-Tyrosine Powder - daily.
L-Citrulline Powder - daily.
Tribulus (60%) - I cycle this with my SMH products.

Natural Vitality:

Natural Calm magnesium supplement - daily

......Then I use a multivitamin, vitamin D3 (10000IU), fish oil, calcium, boron, tocotrienol cap, and choline daily. Use Sorghum (grinded up in a powder, thanks FPR for the fantastic idea) in my protein shakes daily. I also take S. boulardii probiotic and L-Glutamine daily, and drink kombucha a 4-5 times a week for gut (shout out to English).

Workout Routine:

Monday/Thursday: Legs/Abs - 5x6 heavy lifts, squats, calf raises, leg lifts and extensions
Tuesday/Friday: Arms (Bis/Tris/Forearms) 5x6 heavy lifts, a rotation of multiple lifts I've learned over the years
Wednesday/Saturday: Chest/Shoulders: 5x6 heavy lifts, bench/incline bench/cable crossovers, and rotated shoulder exercises.
Sunday: Relaxation/recovery
HIIT: Tuesday/Friday 6x100 yard sprints, all out. 8 if I'm feeling giddy. Which is rare after the 6, lol.

Meditation:

Holosync daily - usually in PM.

Diet:

Paleo with carb backloading.
Intermittent fasting at least once a week.
24 hour water fast at least once a month, usually more frequent.

This should pretty much answer ANY question anyone has that I'm doing from here on out - which is what I wanted to leave as I won't be on here as much. I'm waiting for my Super R-Andro Rx (DHT prohormone) to arrive and then I'm going to run a 6 week cycle at 400 mg/day by recommendation of CD.

And as we all know, stay away from Propecia Help and SolvePFS. Anytime I'm going through a rough patch or need some motivation to get through, just remember, set it (the routine) and forget it. I can always lay my head down at the end of the day knowing I did everything I could to better myself. And guess what, that is just what is happening.

I am getting better.

Fantastic Maxout.. this one post shows your attitude .. thanks mate .. after reading through your post i realise that i am not even 20% into this .. ... need to get back full on the routine .. thanks again...

[Cdsnuts]

Fantastic Maxout.. this one post shows your attitude .. thanks mate .. after reading through your post i realise that i am not even 20% into this .. ... need to get back full on the routine .. thanks again...

Why? I mean, it's all out there Rahaysa. What are you waiting for? If you're not even doing 20%, you're really not doing much of anything.

I'm really curious as to your thought process. You know what needs to be done, but yet you're not doing it.

I don't get it......

[rahaysa]

Why? I mean, it's all out there Rahaysa. What are you waiting for? If you're not even doing 20%, you're really not doing much of anything.

I'm really curious as to your thought process. You know what needs to be done, but yet you're not doing it.

I don't get it......

i am doing it CD .. but just not diligent enough ... i am doing all the parts of the protocol... but not with consistency..... there is a setback every now and then... recently i supplemented with ginseng and it fucked me up ... and i got of the track for 3-4 days ... thats what is hindering my progress.. as soon as something goes wrong .. i drop everything on the protocol and become idle for couple of days ... the 4 step forward 2 step backward thing is the one i am yet to digest ... as soon as i get the 2 step backward thing ... i start worrying... i have come a long way in tackling it .. but i feel in am not 100% there ... but the intention is clear and the road i want to travel is also set .. just that i have to make myself comfortable with the constant setbacks ...i will do it ... thanks for waking me up with your words ..

[Maxout777]

Just a quick update, it'll be two weeks on my 6-week cycle of Super R-Andro Rx at 400mg ED, and the mental effects have been pretty awesome.

Some physical effects have been noted too, overall I'm pleased with it.

However, today I feel like the south end of a North-bound mule (compared to last week, not like a crash or anything). I don't know if given my altered PFS state that it should be expected still but I always thought that while taking a pro-hormone you'd be "on" at all times. The first day I took the product I felt like Superman, no shit. I've noticed that it kinda seems like my "up 4 down 2" upward recovery cycle has been accelerated while on this, almost like my recovery has been sped up, so that's a great thing! I'm hoping feeling off today is just part of that and nothing serious. Figured you guys could tell me better than anyone on that.

Oh well, either way I definitely suggest R-Andro. Badass product.

Can't wait to add IML's Dream N Grow as a once a week treat later this week!

[Cdsnuts]

Just a quick update, it'll be two weeks on my 6-week cycle of Super R-Andro Rx at 400mg ED, and the mental effects have been pretty awesome.

Some physical effects have been noted too, overall I'm pleased with it.

However, today I feel like the south end of a North-bound mule (compared to last week, not like a crash or anything). I don't know if given my altered PFS state that it should be expected still but I always thought that while taking a pro-hormone you'd be "on" at all times. The first day I took the product I felt like Superman, no shit. I've noticed that it kinda seems like my "up 4 down 2" upward recovery cycle has been accelerated while on this, almost like my recovery has been sped up, so that's a great thing! I'm hoping feeling off today is just part of that and nothing serious. Figured you guys could tell me better than anyone on that.

Oh well, either way I definitely suggest R-Andro. Badass product.

Can't wait to add IML's Dream N Grow as a once a week treat later this week!

Glad to hear things are working....

You're going to have ups and downs regardless of prohormones or not. The andro just makes everything enhanced, despite what you have going on in your system.

Keep up on the cycle and do everything as you've been doing.

What kind of physical changes are you noticing?

[Maxout777]

Glad to hear things are working....

You're going to have ups and downs regardless of prohormones or not. The andro just makes everything enhanced, despite what you have going on in your system.

Keep up on the cycle and do everything as you've been doing.

What kind of physical changes are you noticing?

It's definitely working, that's for sure. And that's exactly how I'd explain this "down" is an "enhanced down". Like I feel down but it's no problem to keep going on with my day normally. Kinda like a headache/migraine pre-PFS. Just more of nuisance. Glad to hear that's expected though because I love everything else it's doing.

Physically speaking, at 6'7" (I've noticed a lot of the PFS/recovered guys on this board are tall....wonder if that has anything to do with it...), I've always hovered around 240-245, and I'm already back to 245 since my juice fast and it seems like this run is making my muscles more firm and getting easier gains again. Maybe get to 250 by the end of the cycle? Who knows!

I have an absolutely sick pump after the gym that lasts for awhile and my vascularity has definitely improved. Sexually, my erection quality seems much better, I even got a full one without even touching it a few nights ago when I had sex (that's gotta be a plus, right? Lol). Overall I guess physically it's doing what its supposed to. Hope to see even more gains as the cycle continues. My sweat has come back a good bit more too, but it still smells weird, not like normal. More vinegary? Skin is much more oily like it used to be. Acne is back in full force again too. Oh well, still a plus I guess.

I've been taking nothing but R-Andro, fish oil, choline, magnesium/calcium, and vit D on this cycle. Thought about adding pine pollen back daily but I figured that might be a waste.

[Cdsnuts]

It's definitely working, that's for sure. And that's exactly how I'd explain this "down" is an "enhanced down". Like I feel down but it's no problem to keep going on with my day normally. Kinda like a headache/migraine pre-PFS. Just more of nuisance. Glad to hear that's expected though because I love everything else it's doing.

Physically speaking, at 6'7" (I've noticed a lot of the PFS/recovered guys on this board are tall....wonder if that has anything to do with it...), I've always hovered around 240-245, and I'm already back to 245 since my juice fast and it seems like this run is making my muscles more firm and getting easier gains again. Maybe get to 250 by the end of the cycle? Who knows!

I have an absolutely sick pump after the gym that lasts for awhile and my vascularity has definitely improved. Sexually, my erection quality seems much better, I even got a full one without even touching it a few nights ago when I had sex (that's gotta be a plus, right? Lol). Overall I guess physically it's doing what its supposed to. Hope to see even more gains as the cycle continues. My sweat has come back a good bit more too, but it still smells weird, not like normal. More vinegary? Skin is much more oily like it used to be. Acne is back in full force again too. Oh well, still a plus I guess.

I've been taking nothing but R-Andro, fish oil, choline, magnesium/calcium, and vit D on this cycle. Thought about adding pine pollen back daily but I figured that might be a waste.

Save the Pine pollen for after cycle. It would be a waste to use it now.

Damn dude, you're a big mofo!

I thought I was biggish at 6 4" 230lbs. You tower over me!

[Maxout777]

Save the Pine pollen for after cycle. It would be a waste to use it now.

Damn dude, you're big mofo!

I thought I was biggish at 6 4" 230lbs. You tower over me!

Lol yeah it's a blessing and a curse. My joints hate me for it! When I first crashed, I got all the way down to 229, almost 5 months ago now....I looked unhealthy. Funny story, I actually had a guy on Propecia help that I was PMing say I was lying about my size.....I was speechless. Like I am on a forum telling you my dick doesn't work and I feel like a pussy but you think I'm going to lie about my physical size? Those guys....

Never thought I'd ever be emasculated by anything, but even at my size, PFS will do it to you every time. Just glad I seem to be somewhat getting my alpha back. Felt like a giant, emotional teddy bear for awhile there lol. My fiancée even jokes with me that she wants the more "sentimental" me back now, so guess I'm back to being a wise ass again!

[Cdsnuts]

Lol yeah it's a blessing and a curse. My joints hate me for it! When I first crashed, I got all the way down to 229, almost 5 months ago now....I looked unhealthy. Funny story, I actually had a guy on Propecia help that I was PMing say I was lying about my size.....I was speechless. Like I am on a forum telling you my dick doesn't work and I feel like a pussy but you think I'm going to lie about my physical size? Those guys....

Never thought I'd ever be emasculated by anything, but even at my size, PFS will do it to you every time. Just glad I seem to be somewhat getting my alpha back. Felt like a giant, emotional teddy bear for awhile there lol. My fiancée even jokes with me that she wants the more "sentimental" me back now, so guess I'm back to being a wise ass again!

Lol...those fucking guys man...I mean...really. When you're on that site, you're literally pouring your heart out to anyone that will listen so that you can feel human again, somewhat. Some of those guys are just straight up strange as hell with the things they think people are lying to them about. Like.....THINK...guys. Why would anyone spend time there to make shit up? Lol.

That was one of the hardest things for me, was the loss of my alpha brain. The sudden inability to be quick witted and a wise ass. It's amazing how that is attached to hormones. You don't realize until you don't have it anymore. It's like....the shit just isn't there....your brain doesn't work right anymore. Scary as fuck.

It will come back dude....all of it and more.

In regards to size. When I fasted, on one of my 21 day fasts, my lowest weight was 169 lbs. I looked liked like an AIDS patient. A dying aids patient.

[Maxout777]

Lol...those fucking guys man...I mean...really. When you're on that site, you're literally pouring your heart out to anyone that will listen so that you can feel human again, somewhat. Some of those guys are just straight up strange as hell with the things they think people are lying to them about. Like.....THINK...guys. Why would anyone spend time there to make shit up? Lol.

That was one of the hardest things for me, was the loss of my alpha brain. The sudden inability to be quick witted and a wise ass. It's amazing how that is attached to hormones. You don't realize until you don't have it anymore. It's like....the shit just isn't there....your brain doesn't work right anymore. Scary as fuck.

It will come back dude....all of it and more.

In regards to size. When I fasted, on one of my 21 day fasts, my lowest weight was 169 lbs. I looked liked like an AIDS patient. A dying aids patient.

Yeah man, they are the worst. You can't even offer them coaching for a price or a website for your protocol without being made out to be the antichrist. I don't understand it. I mean I do, but I can't relate lol. I can't wait for it to all be back - just putting in my dues until then.

169?! Jesus....man I bet folks didn't even recognize you that saw you prior to the fast. That's fuckin insane.

I know man, at my worst I couldn't be quick witted and a wise ass to save my life. It's like I would have to sit there and think about line by line of what I was going to say and even then it didn't make sense half of the time. That was the worst part. Like being a 14 year old around girls again because I never knew what to say lol. I didn't know jack shit about hormones prior to this experience, but like you said it's amazing how much is tied to hormones. Sleep, love, emotion, sex, confidence, hell just about life in general.

[rahaysa]

Lol...those fucking guys man...I mean...really. When you're on that site, you're literally pouring your heart out to anyone that will listen so that you can feel human again, somewhat. Some of those guys are just straight up strange as hell with the things they think people are lying to them about. Like.....THINK...guys. Why would anyone spend time there to make shit up? Lol.

That was one of the hardest things for me, was the loss of my alpha brain. The sudden inability to be quick witted and a wise ass. It's amazing how that is attached to hormones. You don't realize until you don't have it anymore. It's like....the shit just isn't there....your brain doesn't work right anymore. Scary as fuck.

It will come back dude....all of it and more.

In regards to size. When I fasted, on one of my 21 day fasts, my lowest weight was 169 lbs. I looked liked like an AIDS patient. A dying aids patient.


to add on to what both of you said about some people ...CD have you noticed that none of the naysayers ever come here and sign up... the amount of positivity and direction in this website does not fit the mentality of those people .. and that has been a blessing for this forum i believe .. else those people waste no time to bring in all the negativity and destroy the forum...

and really liked that one post where the whole of forum supported you here when someone called your story a bullshit .. thats kind of support scares the shit out of naysayers and they dont even come here ...

[Cdsnuts]

to add on to what both of you said about some people ...CD have you noticed that none of the naysayers ever come here and sign up... the amount of positivity and direction in this website does not fit the mentality of those people .. and that has been a blessing for this forum i believe .. else those people waste no time to bring in all the negativity and destroy the forum...

and really liked that one post where the whole of forum supported you here when someone called your story a bullshit .. thats kind of support scares the shit out of naysayers and they dont even come here ...

That is because the majority of the guys here are here for self improvement purposes. When it comes to self improvement, you NEED a positive mental attitude to even start down that road. It ALL starts in the mind. Everything you do comes from your thoughts. EVERYTHING.

PH is filled with guys who have been hormonally and neurologically devastated. Most of them have never even looked at a weight let alone tried to do anything towards any kind of self improvement. They don't have the beginning blue print or ground work laid for any of it. This puts them at an automatic disadvantage to guys that have lifted or played sports prior to this happening to them. Most of the guys that have recovered have a few tricks in their bags because of prior self improvement endevours. They know how to focus themselves and how to stay positive even when it's almost impossible to do so. This, imo, makes all the difference in the world to their outcome. It will be one of the hardest things they have ever faced, so without this thought process, they are doomed from the beginning despite trying to teach and tell them otherwise.

[Maxout777]

That is because the majority of the guys here are here for self improvement purposes. When it comes to self improvement, you NEED a positive mental attitude to even start down that road. It ALL starts in the mind. Everything you do comes from your thoughts. EVERYTHING.

PH is filled with guys who have been hormonally and neurologically devastated. Most of them have never even looked at a weight let alone tried to do anything towards any kind of self improvement. They don't have the beginning blue print or ground work laid for any of it. This puts them at an automatic disadvantage to guys that have lifted or played sports prior to this happening to them. Most of the guys that have recovered have a few tricks in their bags because of prior self improvement endevours. They know how to focus themselves and how to stay positive even when it's almost impossible to do so. This, imo, makes all the difference in the world to their outcome. It will be one of the hardest things they have ever faced, so without this thought process, they are doomed from the beginning despite trying to teach and tell them otherwise.

Just to add on to this, I believe a lot of the reason the folks remain as they are is most of them are spot-on, stereotypical what I call "crowd pleasers". This is justified by the negative environment those boards have. It's a lot easier to sit and bitch with people who are the "in crowd" as you can call it than to be a rebel and do what might (well, will) make them better. They fail at the protocol because they don't have the discipline or self belief it takes to get anywhere or anything. This lifestyle isn't "cool" or "popular", you won't "fit in" with coworkers or friends because you don't eat pizza or drink ten beers while in recovery, and these same people that want to fit in with the board seek nothing more important than the acceptance of others. The ones who beat it don't give a fuck about that. I'll live my life, you live yours, and that's how I've always looked at it, even before PFS. Unfortunately, PH is nothing but classic crowd pleasers. Just my two cents.

[rahaysa]

Just to add on to this, I believe a lot of the reason the folks remain as they are is most of them are spot-on, stereotypical what I call "crowd pleasers". This is justified by the negative environment those boards have. It's a lot easier to sit and bitch with people who are the "in crowd" as you can call it than to be a rebel and do what might (well, will) make them better. They fail at the protocol because they don't have the discipline or self belief it takes to get anywhere or anything. This lifestyle isn't "cool" or "popular", you won't "fit in" with coworkers or friends because you don't eat pizza or drink ten beers while in recovery, and these same people that want to fit in with the board seek nothing more important than the acceptance of others. The ones who beat it don't give a fuck about that. I'll live my life, you live yours, and that's how I've always looked at it, even before PFS. Unfortunately, PH is nothing but classic crowd pleasers. Just my two cents.

Maxout you talk about acceptance issues with coworkers and friends ... i have issues with my family... on my 5.5 daya juice feast ..my parents thought some one was misleading me and my wife thought i was on some kind of drugs or some spiritual guru had got me into some pyshscic rituals to please god ... they dint let me go past 5.5 days when my intention was to go 7 days .

[Cdsnuts]

Maxout you talk about acceptance issues with coworkers and friends ... i have issues with my family... on my 5.5 daya juice feast ..my parents thought some one was misleading me and my wife thought i was on some kind of drugs or some spiritual guru had got me into some pyshscic rituals to please god ... they dint let me go past 5.5 days when my intention was to go 7 days .
ugh

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Maxout you talk about acceptance issues with coworkers and friends ... i have issues with my family... on my 5.5 daya juice feast ..my parents thought some one was misleading me and my wife thought i was on some kind of drugs or some spiritual guru had got me into some pyshscic rituals to please god ... they dint let me go past 5.5 days when my intention was to go 7 days .

Gotta push past that my man. My fiancee didn't like the fact that I was juice feasting, or the fact that I ordered 15+ herbs and other supplements either - just told her I had to do it to get where I wanted. Didn't frankly care if she liked it or not, as I'm the one who has to either suffer or reap the rewards for my own life.

If you're mentally not strong enough to do this at this point, you've gotta dig deeper to get there. It's an absolute requirement - to stick to it regardless of what anyone says to you, as well as staying the course when you have the inevitable setbacks. That's why you see very few people on PH posting anything regarding recovery. They won't mentally stick to it. Just like those who are successful in athletics versus those who bust, they don't put in that extra time or that extra effort to get there and find a crutch to say why it didn't happen.

There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

[Maxout777]

Three weeks on R-Andro, just going to do a small update.

For the most part, everything is still on par with my last update. I'm still killing the gym, my mental capacity is doing fantastic, and sexually, I can still function. The sex is far from great but I can do it. Libido has been minimal, but I think in all honesty I've just had too much sex lately (which in my current case is once a week. Prior to this I would have BITCHED about only once a week). Morning erections are almost everyday and nocturnals every night.

Played a round of golf this morning, so that's a first since, and had plenty of energy. Generally, my mood and everything is looking up. Added a few herbs to my arsenal for my upcoming PCT after the six weeks.

Also, to anyone who's having sleep issues, IML's Dream N Grow is fantastic. I just wish I could use it every night, but we all know Kratom wouldn't be wise to use in that manner.

Hope everyone is having a good Fourth weekend!

[Maxout777]

Had some time on my hands so I figured I'd post.....its been pretty dead here lately besides a few shill topics to jump in on lol.

My cycle has flown by and now I'm approaching just a week left. Hate I have to get off this stuff because it is absolutely awesome. From where I was when I began to take it to where I am now, it's honestly a blessing. A blessing that came from hard work and disciplined diet and lifestyle, but a blessing none the less.

I pretty much live day to day on a mentally normal level at the moment, and it feels good. I WAY overestimated how recovered I was earlier now that I'm where I am now. Pretty much only my sexual symptoms remain - and even they are much better. I'm not looking forward to coming off R-Andro but I'm looking forward to the PCT, and even more so to my next cycle. Probably going with R-Andro again, but looked into maybe stacking it with Epi-Andro (to simulate AH v3) but I figured why mess with a good thing.

I've also noticed the more I get lost in my day to day activities and can live more normally and sleep better, the more my recovery gets kickstarted. I'm proud of myself for where I've gotten from where I was, and I can pretty much see an end in sight now. It's a great feeling. To live, to be cocky, to not be just flat.....man, I've missed it.

Hope everyone is doing well out there!

[rahaysa]

good to know you are doing good maxout ...

i might go the r andro route six months from now ... i am still making life style changes one ata time .. because making all changes at the same time is scaring my family and they are very much becoming hindrence to my progress...

hope you get healed and still stay on this forum.. i might need your help...

by the way i am intending to go on another Juice feast ... for a longer time this time.. 14 days max ... this will be my last lengthy Juice feast ... i really like the way juice feast made m e feel... highly energetic .. focused .. motivated ..

[Maxout777]

good to know you are doing good maxout ...

i might go the r andro route six months from now ... i am still making life style changes one ata time .. because making all changes at the same time is scaring my family and they are very much becoming hindrence to my progress...

hope you get healed and still stay on this forum.. i might need your help...

by the way i am intending to go on another Juice feast ... for a longer time this time.. 14 days max ... this will be my last lengthy Juice feast ... i really like the way juice feast made m e feel... highly energetic .. focused .. motivated ..

I'll definitely remain on here after I cross the finish line because if PFS has done anything for me, it's get me back into my love of weight lifting and fitness.....and I'm always glad to "pay it forward" and help anyone. Something I've learned though is that most of this effort and "protocol" comes from yourself. I spent my early days blowing up CD with a few questions, some more important and helpful than others, but really most of this has come from trial and error and seeing what makes me keep moving in the right direction. No one but yourself is going to "heal" you, and the lifestyle changes you make are the first step in many steps in the right direction. Once it's dialed in and you've got it working for you.....it's actually pretty easy if you've got an ounce of discipline in you. The hard part is doing the dirty work upfront to dial in the little pieces of the program that only you can do for yourself (mindset, etc.)......once that is done, with a little discipline it's smooth sailing to the finish line. Don't let the bumps in the road throw you off.

[Cdsnuts]

good to know you are doing good maxout ...

i might go the r andro route six months from now ... i am still making life style changes one ata time .. because making all changes at the same time is scaring my family and they are very much becoming hindrence to my progress...

hope you get healed and still stay on this forum.. i might need your help...

by the way i am intending to go on another Juice feast ... for a longer time this time.. 14 days max ... this will be my last lengthy Juice feast ... i really like the way juice feast made m e feel... highly energetic .. focused .. motivated ..

I see this countless times in regards to family members becoming frightened or scared at the drastic changes guys have to make to get themselves back. You can't let them deter you from this. Yes, they me be alarmed at what you are doing, but they have no idea how scared and frightened and miserable a state YOU have been LIVING in for the past period of time. This is about YOU, not them. It's easy for them to judge and make comments because they aren't living in a state of perpetual hell and suffering. If they actually understood what you were going through it would be very selfish of them to try and stop you from doing these things. While they mean well, they just don't get it, and most likely never will. YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, period. What they think or say is IRRELEVANT. The only thing that matters is you getting yourself back so you can be the best son, husband/boyfriend, brother, friend that you can possibly be.

You don't need anymore help Rahaysa. Everything you need to do you already know. Maxout is just following the same program as you. The only difference is he is doing it EXACTLY how it is supposed to be done. Do you see the results he is getting? Do you see how by you dragging your feet and only doing one thing at a time instead of implementing the whole thing you are just keeping yourself is this horrible state longer than you need to? What is it do you THINK you'll need from him?

14 days is not a lengthy juice feast. It's the minimum that I recommend. I always tell guys to try it for a week to see what it's like but it's no where near a long one. If you want to do a solid one go for a month. It can only benefit you. What you experienced in the short time that you were on it only gets magnified with the longer you stay on it. It is one of the most powerful things you can do for your health hands down. At no other time in your life will you flood your body with so many beneficial phytochemicals and bioavailable vitamins and minerals.

You're getting there.....slowly. You are your own obstacle at this point. You need to get out of your own way and just do it.

[rahaysa]

I see this countless times in regards to family members becoming frightened or scared at the drastic changes guys have to make to get themselves back. You can't let them deter you from this. Yes, they me be alarmed at what you are doing, but they have no idea how scared and frightened and miserable a state YOU have been LIVING in for the past period of time. This is about YOU, not them. It's easy for them to judge and make comments because they aren't living in a state of perpetual hell and suffering. If they actually understood what you were going through it would be very selfish of them to try and stop you from doing these things. While they mean well, they just don't get it, and most likely never will. YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, period. What they think or say is IRRELEVANT. The only thing that matters is you getting yourself back so you can be the best son, husband/boyfriend, brother, friend that you can possibly be.

You don't need anymore help Rahaysa. Everything you need to do you already know. Maxout is just following the same program as you. The only difference is he is doing it EXACTLY how it is supposed to be done. Do you see the results he is getting? Do you see how by you dragging your feet and only doing one thing at a time instead of implementing the whole thing you are just keeping yourself is this horrible state longer than you need to? What is it do you THINK you'll need from him?

14 days is not a lengthy juice feast. It's the minimum that I recommend. I always tell guys to try it for a week to see what it's like but it's no where near a long one. If you want to do a solid one go for a month. It can only benefit you. What you experienced in the short time that you were on it only gets magnified with the longer you stay on it. It is one of the most powerful things you can do for your health hands down. At no other time in your life will you flood your body with so many beneficial phytochemicals and bioavailable vitamins and minerals.

You're getting there.....slowly. You are your own obstacle at this point. You need to get out of your own way and just do it.


Agreed...

[bighulksmash]

damn .... truth

[bighulksmash]

:D anyone need to chat pm me iam always on.

[Luca]

I'm glad I found this thread. I googled juice fast finasteride to find it. I must have read CD Nut's recovery thread on propecia help about 100 times. I'm glad to see this is working. I am on my 5 day of a green juice fast and will be adding all of the herbs after i get done two weeks of this.

Any update maxout?

[Maxout777]

I'm glad I found this thread. I googled juice fast finasteride to find it. I must have read CD Nut's recovery thread on propecia help about 100 times. I'm glad to see this is working. I am on my 5 day of a green juice fast and will be adding all of the herbs after i get done two weeks of this.

Any update maxout?

You're on the right track my friend. Get the diet under control after some solid refeeding and then begin your workout routine very similar to what I have laid out in my posts on here. It's pretty much CD's, except I workout 6x a week with weights. You can dial that back to 3x if you're really in the shitter. Get CD's outline off PH and get the hell off of that site and any related to Finasteride horror stories. You've read all you need to read. Mindset is everything in this. And the mindset of most of those guys on that site is absolutely catastrophic thinking and that will be detrimental to your recovery. Quiet your mind, meditate, be social, play a video game, do anything you can to escape the circle of thinking related to post-Finasteride syndrome.

As for me, I'm currently doing pretty awesome besides some sexual symptoms and eye floaters. Mentally I'm pretty damn good again. I'm coming off my 6 week cycle of R-Andro Rx after tomorrow, so I'm not sure how I'll feel during PCT but most all of my gains and my baseline feel pretty permanent. I feel pretty good in the AM before I even take my dosage of the prohormone so I don't expect too many surprises coming into pct. My PCT is herb cycling, toco caps, royal jelly, pine pollen, and suma root daily for the 6 weeks and then I'm hopping right back into another R-Andro Rx cycle for 6 weeks.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Consistency equals results.....you are the sole determinant of the results you get on this program. You write the book. It's worked for CD, English, entropy, and quite a few guys that never posted recoveries on that other site, and it's working for me. But it only works if you are consistent and disciplined. Just my two cents.

[Luca]

Thanks man! I still need to order all of my herbs. I'm going to get on that tonight. I'll also look into that R-Andro supplement.

Man, dinner is cooking downstairs and I'm pounding away at a giant green juice! It's going to be worth it though!

[Maxout777]

CD, when you get a chance, what are your thoughts on simulating a run of AHv3 by stacking both Super R-Andro and Super Epi-Andro, versus just running R-Andro like I did. I really enjoyed this run (this is my last day.....unfortunately) but I read where entropy really, really liked AHv3 and it did well for him so I can't get the idea of mixing things up out of my head.

I'll probably end up sticking with just R-Andro next time, but the idea of simulating AHv3 with both is tempting.

[Cdsnuts]

CD, when you get a chance, what are your thoughts on simulating a run of AHv3 by stacking both Super R-Andro and Super Epi-Andro, versus just running R-Andro like I did. I really enjoyed this run (this is my last day.....unfortunately) but I read where entropy really, really liked AHv3 and it did well for him so I can't get the idea of mixing things up out of my head.

I'll probably end up sticking with just R-Andro next time, but the idea of simulating AHv3 with both is tempting.
Andro hard V3 was my absolute favorite prohormone and I have not been able to simulate it despite trying every type of DHT based product out there. Nothing I have tried even comes close. In my opinion the second-best is the r andro. Epi andro did not sit well with me at all. Give it a shot and see how you feel but I don't think anything on the market is going to touch it.

Run the herbs for another 2 months and then jump on again..... rinse and repeat. If your recovery goes anything like mine every time you come off a cycle you will have gained permanent ground.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Luca]

I always wondered what the advantage of one of these DHT pro hormone supplements is over something like Andractim. I bought Andractim a while back but never felt anything positive from it. I hope the R-Andro works on me once I get to that stage.

[Maxout777]

Andro hard V3 was my absolute favorite prohormone and I have not been able to simulate it despite trying every type of DHT based product out there. Nothing I have tried even comes close. In my opinion the second-best is the r andro. Epi andro did not sit well with me at all. Give it a shot and see how you feel but I don't think anything on the market is going to touch it.

Run the herbs for another 2 months and then jump on again..... rinse and repeat. If your recovery goes anything like mine every time you come off a cycle you will have gained permanent ground.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Yeah this feels permanent. Like I said, I feel pretty damn good in the morning before I even dose the PH. So I'm not expecting too many surprises in the PCT and going back to herb cycling period.

I guess I'll have to decide if the risk is worth it trying to simulate Andro Hard v3. If the Epi Andro doesnt sit well with me, that's wasted money that could go onto something else. May just stick with the R-Andro and wait and try the AHv3 stack at a later time. Thanks for the input, I figured you had ran enough DHT pros to know if it would be worth it or not lol.

[Cdsnuts]

It is permanent. You'll still have ups and downs but your base line has been increased. Just keep chipping away at it like this indefinitely and before you know it you'll be feeling amazing everyday. When all said and done you're going to end up being better than you were prior to taking the poison

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[Maxout777]

It is permanent. You'll still have ups and downs but your base line has been increased. Just keep chipping away at it like this indefinitely and before you know it you'll be feeling amazing everyday. When all said and done you're going to end up being better than you were prior to taking the poison

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Can't ask for too much more than that. Thanks again for the help.

I'm highly functional again day to day now - so once I get my sex life back on pre-PFS track (get libido back and get rid of this strange slight rotation/axis twist of my member), I'll be golden. Amazing how much you can accomplish when you do something about it as opposed to wait for a "cure".

[Luca]

Can't ask for too much more than that. Thanks again for the help.

I'm highly functional again day to day now - so once I get my sex life back on pre-PFS track (get libido back and get rid of this strange slight rotation/axis twist of my member), I'll be golden. Amazing how much you can accomplish when you do something about it as opposed to wait for a "cure".

How much has your sexual function improved since you started this protocol? That's the area I need to get back.

[Maxout777]

How much has your sexual function improved since you started this protocol? That's the area I need to get back.

I can have sex again and have morning erections again. Just not much libido if any! And my member is slightly twisted around the axis slightly to the left when flaccid, not really when erect. Besides those two I'm doing pretty well sexually. I have no idea what causes the twist? Not sure if CD experienced it or not but I know Chi on PH had it and it went away for him so I'm hoping the protocol will just fix it. It's probably my most annoying symptom besides eye floaters because they both continuously remind me of the issue.

I try to not talk about symptoms because that gets you in the PH realm of things which is negative....I suggest you do the same.i just had no other way of explaining that to you lol.

[Luca]

I can have sex again and have morning erections again. Just not much libido if any! And my member is slightly twisted around the axis slightly to the left when flaccid, not really when erect. Besides those two I'm doing pretty well sexually. I have no idea what causes the twist? Not sure if CD experienced it or not but I know Chi on PH had it and it went away for him so I'm hoping the protocol will just fix it. It's probably my most annoying symptom besides eye floaters because they both continuously remind me of the issue.

I try to not talk about symptoms because that gets you in the PH realm of things which is negative....I suggest you do the same.i just had no other way of explaining that to you lol.

Mine was twisting to the left way back in the beginning, but that went away. Alright, we can not discuss symptoms. By the way I like your quote about traffic on the extra mile. I thought of that today while I was doing something for work and it pushed me to go ahead and complete the whole project today.

[Maxout777]

Mine was twisting to the left way back in the beginning, but that went away. Alright, we can not discuss symptoms. By the way I like your quote about traffic on the extra mile. I thought of that today while I was doing something for work and it pushed me to go ahead and complete the whole project today.

I'm glad to hear that it went away for you too, so I'm glad I brought it up lol. That's a good thing, it's been a quote of mine since high school athletics, and written on my white board in my office at work - and something you can always think of when the going is tough on the protocol. It isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, that's why you see only a few here and there that are recovered. I'm not there yet, but I know I will be eventually. This won't be how my chapter on Earth ends. You're off to a strong start my friend. Just stay the course and reap the benefits.

My number one thing to recommend for your mindset is find something that you love to do, or could love to do and get deep into it, and get your mind off of your PFS and kill some stress. This along with meditation will help a bunch. I'm an avid golfer and waterfowl hunter (cant do that currently in summer or I would), and I've focused a lot of my time in my hobbies as of late. This has helped immensely.

[rahaysa]

I'm glad to hear that it went away for you too, so I'm glad I brought it up lol. That's a good thing, it's been a quote of mine since high school athletics, and written on my white board in my office at work - and something you can always think of when the going is tough on the protocol. It isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, that's why you see only a few here and there that are recovered. I'm not there yet, but I know I will be eventually. This won't be how my chapter on Earth ends. You're off to a strong start my friend. Just stay the course and reap the benefits.

My number one thing to recommend for your mindset is find something that you love to do, or could love to do and get deep into it, and get your mind off of your PFS and kill some stress. This along with meditation will help a bunch. I'm an avid golfer and waterfowl hunter (cant do that currently in summer or I would), and I've focused a lot of my time in my hobbies as of late. This has helped immensely.

same here maxout .. i liked that quote of yours ... i really remember my college days how i used to be the only person in gym to push that extra 10 kgs on the squat stands just that i could break the university record... i stood first in the competitions, but so were some other people in other weight groups .. they stood first ... but i was the only trying to break the record ... and only one in the gym after the average guys left ... i dint break it ... but i was always satisfied i bettered my own records :) ... i miss that alpha character i had ... but i feel its coming back in slow waves here and there .. and will eventually reach the point of satisfcation

[Maxout777]

Quick question for anyone in the know:

I have a natty PCT product that I was going to run for 30 days (along with my herb cycling) because it had a few herbs I couldn't find anywhere else in it (Fadogia agrestis) and marketed Tribulus at 90% with 80% protodioscin (which is amazing to find, if true)......as well as trans-resveratrol (I have a Res TD from Rob that I can use instead) but upon further investigation (actually reading the label opposed to being a dumbass and not) it also has Arimistane in it (25 mg) which is a suicide AI which has mixed reviews online.

I'm questioning whether I really need to use this now because I've never had estro problems since I started on this whole journey. I'm thinking of shelling it for now and using it later (once I run a PH when I'm actually out of the woods so to speak) because the last thing I want is any other issues caused by some OTC compound. Other than this question, PCT is going great! (as great as it can coming off Androsterone.....)

PCT without this would just herbs, tococaps, and occasional Res TD use.

[Cdsnuts]

Quick question for anyone in the know:

I have a natty PCT product that I was going to run for 30 days (along with my herb cycling) because it had a few herbs I couldn't find anywhere else in it (Fadogia agrestis) and marketed Tribulus at 90% with 80% protodioscin (which is amazing to find, if true)......as well as trans-resveratrol (I have a Res TD from Rob that I can use instead) but upon further investigation (actually reading the label opposed to being a dumbass and not) it also has Arimistane in it (25 mg) which is a suicide AI which has mixed reviews online.

I'm questioning whether I really need to use this now because I've never had estro problems since I started on this whole journey. I'm thinking of shelling it for now and using it later (once I run a PH when I'm actually out of the woods so to speak) because the last thing I want is any other issues caused by some OTC compound. Other than this question, PCT is going great! (as great as it can coming off Androsterone.....)

PCT without this would just herbs, tococaps, and occasional Res TD use.
You'll be fine with herb cycling. Res actually crushes my estrogen too much so I don't use it anymore.

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[Maxout777]

You'll be fine with herb cycling. Res actually crushes my estrogen too much so I don't use it anymore.

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Alright sounds good. I think the last time I used Res it did the same to me. As my bloodwork earlier in the thread shows, if anything I think I have low estrogen. I actually started feeling the best (prior to PH cycle) when my estrogen got back into the 20's range finally.

I really wished this product panned out to be all herbs like I thought it was.....that high grade of Tribulus is unheard of nowadays, and Fadogia seems to have positives for T+LH, and I can't find either anywhere else that looks worth the money, so that would've been a nice addition to take in a cycle. Unfortunately I skimmed over the AI portion - figured it was just res at the most, but I was wrong

[Luca]

What tribulus are you using? I have some from Now Foods, but I want to get a more powerful version because I believe in tribulus a lot.

I have a funny story about tribulus. I was having horrible erectile dysfunction and I took about 6 pills of it. Within 30 minutes, everything turned on in my body and I had an amazing erection with full sensation. It was incredible, but it faded out over the next week. My doctor told me there is no physiological reason that could have happened, insinuating that it was all in my head.

[Luca]

Maxout, I just got all of my superman herbs today. Are you just taking the dosages that they recommend on the package? Do you just pop them in your mouth?

[Maxout777]

Maxout, I just got all of my superman herbs today. Are you just taking the dosages that they recommend on the package? Do you just pop them in your mouth?

I started with their dosage but moved up based on how it affected me. I'm a pretty big guy, so I may need a larger dose than someone smaller than me....not sure if size effects it or just individual tolerances so your mileage may vary. Just try it out and find a sweet spot for you.

As far as how I take them, I just pop em in my mouth and wash em down with water. I usually have some coffee on hand to drink after I take em....the caffeine ups the response up for me and CD was the one who suggested me try that.....if you're not still sensitive to it. At first off the drug/supplement, it would make my anxiety and insomnia bad.

[Maxout777]

Wasn't planning on updating this until I got time to run a cycle again, but the oddest thing has happened today..... My libido has come back online almost completely, and just out of the blue. It's not like back to normal but it actually exists which it wasn't doing before! Like I genuinely want to have sex lol. Unbelievable how that just switched back on. I don't imagine or plan on it lasting, but wow....kinda forgot how it felt to feel that way. Pretty much cured my ED having that back. I figured libido would come back in waves, not immediately. Again, not counting my chickens before they hatch lol.

This whole thing has been the weirdest thing ever. Oh well, I'll take it for sure! Nothing special I did to bring the brain-dick connection back online, just continued consistency with the protocol. It's definitely not pre-SP yet, but at least I notice it again!

[Cdsnuts]

Wasn't planning on updating this until I got time to run a cycle again, but the oddest thing has happened today..... My libido has come back online almost completely, and just out of the blue. It's not like back to normal but it actually exists which it wasn't doing before! Like I genuinely want to have sex lol. Unbelievable how that just switched back on. I don't imagine or plan on it lasting, but wow....kinda forgot how it felt to feel that way. Pretty much cured my ED having that back. I figured libido would come back in waves, not immediately. Again, not counting my chickens before they hatch lol.

This whole thing has been the weirdest thing ever. Oh well, I'll take it for sure! Nothing special I did to bring the brain-dick connection back online, just continued consistency with the protocol. It's definitely not pre-SP yet, but at least I notice it again!

This is incorrect. You DID do something special to bring the connection back. EVERYTHING you've been doing up to this point has been the "nothing special" This is what I've tried to instill in everyone that undertakes the program. Everything you do has a cumulative effect in bringing you back towards the correct equilibrium.

Just wait my friend...it will continue to get better and better. I'm telling you, you are going to get to a point where you cannot believe how good you feel on a daily basis.

[Maxout777]

This is incorrect. You DID do something special to bring the connection back. EVERYTHING you've been doing up to this point has been the "nothing special" This is what I've tried to instill in everyone that undertakes the program. Everything you do has a cumulative effect in bringing you back towards the correct equilibrium.

Just wait my friend...it will continue to get better and better. I'm telling you, you are going to get to a point where you cannot believe how good you feel on a daily basis.

Well you're definitely right about that, I could've used better wording lol. What I meant was I haven't done anything different than I've been doing that caused that to happen. I was just so in shock I couldn't get my words right. That, and once you've made this protocol your way of life for a few months, my mindset is like I've been living life instead of doing this for a certain purpose....which is great.

[Brazilianguy]

Hi Maxout777 how are you doing men? I'm reading here and I'm glad that you're getting there.
I'm great too, so great that I had a week that I couldn't control myself and I masturbated 5-6 times in 2 days, sorry for being graphic, after that the next day I was tired as hell lol, but I'm already feeling better.

Could you tell me more about your diet? I noticed that once I had a better diet, eating more orange, banana and lemon, I took my herbs with coffee and they worked amazingly well again. So I'll try to improve my diet even more.

Regarding eye floaters I noticed I get better vision and less floaters when I get a big boost in improvements, the up phase of the wave/rollercoaster movement. Sometimes I can't see any floaters, but then they come back weaker, I guess it's how it works until they vanish once and for all.

I'll try to follow your diet, is it a paleo diet?

[Maxout777]

Hi Maxout777 how are you doing men? I'm reading here and I'm glad that you're getting there.
I'm great too, so great that I had a week that I couldn't control myself and I masturbated 5-6 times in 2 days, sorry for being graphic, after that the next day I was tired as hell lol, but I'm already feeling better.

Could you tell me more about your diet? I noticed that once I had a better diet, eating more orange, banana and lemon, I took my herbs with coffee and they worked amazingly well again. So I'll try to improve my diet even more.

Regarding eye floaters I noticed I get better vision and less floaters when I get a big boost in improvements, the up phase of the wave/rollercoaster movement. Sometimes I can't see any floaters, but then they come back weaker, I guess it's how it works until they vanish once and for all.

I'll try to follow your diet, is it a paleo diet?

Hey man,

I've noticed the same regarding eye floaters and vision issues. Everytime I make a significant stride they seem to relinquish a bit.

As far as diet goes, I eat a paleo style diet. Mainly meat and vegetables during the day, and then once I finish my workout for the evening after work, I carb back load, usually complex carbs with dinner and then some more as snacks afterwards. All of the carbs I eat are gluten free though. Hope this helps.

Glad to see you're doing better!

[bizzbee]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for the best brands of natty t-boosters. I know some of you swear by Superman Herbs. I have also looked into World ABS. I want to purchase some Tongkat, HGW, and Shilajit. I already have some Tribulus from Mediherb. Wondering if getting some from LiftMode is worth it too. What are your experiences?

[bizzbee]

Also, I'm going to see a functional MD this September. I will update on how that goes. I won't attempt the DHT pro hormones again, get headaches. The res100 also makes me feel awful now (estrogen crushed?). So just sticking to the t-boosters, diet, training, sleep, meditation, and perhaps some vitamins or supps the functional MD may recommend. By the way, how do you guys feel after taking shilajit? I just bought the PurBlack brand.


Hello Everyone,

I am looking for the best brands of natty t-boosters. I know some of you swear by Superman Herbs. I have also looked into World ABS. I want to purchase some Tongkat, HGW, and Shilajit. I already have some Tribulus from Mediherb. Wondering if getting some from LiftMode is worth it too. What are your experiences?

[TubZy]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for the best brands of natty t-boosters. I know some of you swear by Superman Herbs. I have also looked into World ABS. I want to purchase some Tongkat, HGW, and Shilajit. I already have some Tribulus from Mediherb. Wondering if getting some from LiftMode is worth it too. What are your experiences?

Make your own thread this is his log

[Maxout777]

@Bizzbee,

I love shilajit, I use the pitch from Super Man Herbs. If I can, I get all of my herbs from there. What I don't get from there (suma root, catuaba bark, avena sativa, icariin, muira puma, butea superba, tribulus), I get from Swanson's Herbs (through Amazon).

[TubZy]

@Bizzbee,

I love shilajit, I use the pitch from Super Man Herbs. If I can, I get all of my herbs from there. What I don't get from there (suma root, catuaba bark, avena sativa, icariin, muira puma, butea superba, tribulus), I get from Swanson's Herbs (through Amazon).

Have you tried barlowes instead of swansons? That is what I use if I can't get all my stuff at superman.

[Maxout777]

Have you tried barlowes instead of swansons? That is what I use if I can't get all my stuff at superman.

I've never tried them, I usually use swanson's for the convenience of Amazon Prime shipping - and their prices aren't too bad. Who knows on the quality though.

[TubZy]

I've never tried them, I usually use swanson's for the convenience of Amazon Prime shipping - and their prices aren't too bad. Who knows on the quality though.

You notice anything from avena? That is the only one I don't have in my stack. Also, superman has icariin, it's under horny goat weed.

[Maxout777]

You notice anything from avena? That is the only one I don't have in my stack. Also, superman has icariin, it's under horny goat weed.

Superman's Icariin is a really low percentage so I go elsewhere for that one.

I notice some from Avena but it's not one I look forward to or anything. It's dirt cheap so it's worth adding.

[bizzbee]

Thanks Maxout777, sorry to go off topic.


@Bizzbee,

I love shilajit, I use the pitch from Super Man Herbs. If I can, I get all of my herbs from there. What I don't get from there (suma root, catuaba bark, avena sativa, icariin, muira puma, butea superba, tribulus), I get from Swanson's Herbs (through Amazon).

[TubZy]

@maxout do you still need some pine pollen tinctures? I can't take it because it messes with my allergies but the powder doesn't oddly enough

[Maxout777]

@maxout do you still need some pine pollen tinctures? I can't take it because it messes with my allergies but the powder doesn't oddly enough

Funny you ask, I LITERALLY ran out today lol. I was about to look into purchasing another one or two.

[TubZy]

Funny you ask, I LITERALLY ran out today lol. I was about to look into purchasing another one or two.

Haha good. Send me a PM and we can figure it out. I would send you a PM but can't find it on mobile

[Maxout777]

Haha good. Send me a PM and we can figure it out. I would send you a PM but can't find it on mobile

PM Sent.

[brandonraz]

Dude, finding this thread was exactly what I needed today, thanks guys. I'm ready to start. I celebrate five years of PFS in October (I am ihatefin on PH and SolvePFS, btw) and I am done. I am going to kick its ass. Then I am going to kick the world's ass. (In the nicest, most gentlemanly way possible). :) PLEASE feel free to PM me anything that might be helpful. Any info on juice feasting would be super helpful. THANKS!

[TubZy]

@maxout says your PM inbox is full, I can't reply lol

[Maxout777]

@maxout says your PM inbox is full, I can't reply lol

Haha I've become quite a popular person to PM now.....I kinda know how CD feels to an extent now. I'll clear it.

[Maxout777]

Added some EndoAmp and TS DAA to the arsenal this week.

Going to dose EndoAmp everyday for the rest of my "PCT" and TS DAA with my Mucuna day of my herb cycling to offset the Prolactin raising side effects. Got quite the arsenal of supplements now. Should be awhile before I have to re-up on my SMH stash - which is good seeing as they are out of almost everything I'm "semi-low" on right now. (Pine Pollen, Lion's Mane, etc.)

Any idea what to expect from EndoAmp? Never used it prior to this, but have used DAA plenty of times before.

[TubZy]

Added some EndoAmp and TS DAA to the arsenal this week.

Going to dose EndoAmp everyday for the rest of my "PCT" and TS DAA with my Mucuna day of my herb cycling to offset the Prolactin raising side effects. Got quite the arsenal of supplements now. Should be awhile before I have to re-up on my SMH stash - which is good seeing as they are out of almost everything I'm "semi-low" on right now. (Pine Pollen, Lion's Mane, etc.)

Any idea what to expect from EndoAmp? Never used it prior to this, but have used DAA plenty of times before.

I love endoamp man. I found it most effective for me is to actually open the 3-4 caps and dump the powder into my pre-workout drink and chug it on empty stomach. Gives me a relaxed, zero anxiety yet euphoric-type feeling but I just feel focused and concentrated. Hard to explain lol. You could even stack it with some light caffeine.

[Maxout777]

I love endoamp man. I found it most effective for me is to actually open the 3-4 caps and dump the powder into my pre-workout drink and chug it on empty stomach. Gives me a relaxed, zero anxiety yet euphoric-type feeling but I just feel focused and concentrated. Hard to explain lol. You could even stack it with some light caffeine.

I'll have to give that a try for sure. I don't really drink a pre workout but I'll just put it in my coffee that I drink prior (or take it with the coffee). Looking forward to it for sure.

[TubZy]

I'll have to give that a try for sure. I don't really drink a pre workout but I'll just put it in my coffee that I drink prior (or take it with the coffee). Looking forward to it for sure.

Sweet let us know how it works. I also found this study, main ingredient in endoamp.

Specific stimulation of steroid 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes by endogenous phosphatidylserine. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3426586)

Among these endogenous phospholipids, only phosphatidylserine stimulated the 5 alpha-reductase, suggesting that the lipid requirement is specific for phosphatidylserine in steroid 5 alpha-reductase from liver microsomes.

[Luca]

Sweet let us know how it works. I also found this study, main ingredient in endoamp.

Specific stimulation of steroid 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes by endogenous phosphatidylserine. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3426586)

Among these endogenous phospholipids, only phosphatidylserine stimulated the 5 alpha-reductase, suggesting that the lipid requirement is specific for phosphatidylserine in steroid 5 alpha-reductase from liver microsomes.

Very interesting. I hope to hear good results from this! I'll do some research on Endoamp as well!

[Maxout777]

Definitely gentlemen, I'll let you know how it goes. Nice to see that bit of research because I didn't see that prior to ordering. Another plus!

[Maxout777]

Anyone know of another supplier outside of Super Man for reliable Pine Pollen? SMH has been out for awhile now, as well as they have been on Lion's Mane and a few others so I'm trying to get re-upped before I run out.

[Maxout777]

Everything is still going well, loving my EndoAmp so far. It's fantastic as a pre or post workout, I've used it for both and the euphoric feeling is awesome. No crash afterward either. Gearing up for my next Super R-Andro Rx run in two weeks. Going for 6 weeks at 600 mg/day....unless it makes me a little jittery I'll drop it to 400 mg/day again like I did last time. Can't wait to see what gains I get this time around.

Just wondering why I didn't purchase the bathmate X40 earlier....this thing is freakin awesome.

[TubZy]

Everything is still going well, loving my EndoAmp so far. It's fantastic as a pre or post workout, I've used it for both and the euphoric feeling is awesome. No crash afterward either. Gearing up for my next Super R-Andro Rx run in two weeks. Going for 6 weeks at 600 mg/day....unless it makes me a little jittery I'll drop it to 400 mg/day again like I did last time. Can't wait to see what gains I get this time around.

Just wondering why I didn't purchase the bathmate X40 earlier....this thing is freakin awesome.

Told you man endoamp is the shit. I hope we can get it in pure powder though, I def notice the difference it hits way harder and quicker when I empty the capsules out but it just a pain bc the content inside is very sticky. Try stacking endoamp with coffee, it eliminates any jitters or anxiety that the coffee gives you so you get a nice ass feeling.

[Cdsnuts]

Told you man endoamp is the shit. I hope we can get it in pure powder though, I def notice the difference it hits way harder and quicker when I empty the capsules out but it just a pain bc the content inside is very sticky. Try stacking endoamp with coffee, it eliminates any jitters or anxiety that the coffee gives you so you get a nice ass feeling.

I've never noticed anything like that with Endoamp? Then again, it's been years since I've run it. I'm going to have to try it.....

[TubZy]

I use 5 caps worth instead of 3 caps. I also notice a similar effect of taking 500-800mg of PS from jarrow too.

[Maxout777]

I've never noticed anything like that with Endoamp? Then again, it's been years since I've run it. I'm going to have to try it.....

For what it's worth I notice the same thing - I usually take it with my coffee prior to working out. It's an awesome feeling even while a little blunted with this shit.

[Maxout777]

Just picked up my 4 bottles of Super R-Andro Rx. Next Saturday, it's go time. Really excited for this run the way I've been feeling.

[Maxout777]

So far so good on my R-Andro run.....only thing is I think I'm going to have to drop dose. Been running it at 600 mg/day dosed three different times, AM, lunch, and PM and I believe the higher dose is giving me a few unwanted effects. At 600 vs 400, I'm noticing some amped up anxiety and my gums are taking a beating, very inflamed. I'm thinking I'll jump back down to 400, I don't think there's any advantage in my situation to running 500 or 600 as opposed to 400. No difference in libido or sexual sides.

Any input would as always be fantastic, but I think the best course of action is dropping back down to 400 mg ED.


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[TubZy]

Yes, I noticed those same effects when I was up to the 900mg range but the pumps and effects were way better (both positive and negative). Mostly anxiety to an extent and I very driven libido constantly. I work in an office setting so that was uncomfortable for me but in the gym I felt euphoric and beast mode.

[Maxout777]

I mean the lifts and such are perfect for me as far as results go but my gums hurt so bad anytime I eat that I can't do it lol. I'm sure the years of smokeless tobacco use until I recently quit didn't help much but my God they never hurt like this before. You had bad gum reaction too?

Oddly enough I didn't notice much libido change between the two doses (mine still hasn't showed it's head again since it showed up about a month ago for a little bit)but I'm still in the earlier days of the whole experience.

[TubZy]

I mean the lifts and such are perfect for me as far as results go but my gums hurt so bad anytime I eat that I can't do it lol. I'm sure the years of smokeless tobacco use until I recently quit didn't help much but my God they never hurt like this before. You had bad gum reaction too?

Oddly enough I didn't notice much libido change between the two doses (mine still hasn't showed it's head again since it showed up about a month ago for a little bit)but I'm still in the earlier days of the whole experience.

Never had the gum issue lol, although my gums have been always on the lower side my whole life at least what the dentist tells me but they never hurt or got swelled up while on R andro. That's odd though, I wonder what is the mechanism behind why it's doing that.

[Maxout777]

Never had the gum issue lol, although my gums have been always on the lower side my whole life at least what the dentist tells me but they never hurt or got swelled up while on R andro. That's odd though, I wonder what is the mechanism behind why it's doing that.

I'm not sure. A quick google shows a link between "steroids" and gum problems like gum disease but I think that would be like real AAS or "gear" as opposed to some light DHT PHs. But who knows, I'm going to go down to 400mg ED which is what I did before and saw positive results. Don't remember any gum issues then. Just another classic pain in the ass lol.

[TubZy]

I'm not sure. A quick google shows a link between "steroids" and gum problems like gum disease but I think that would be like real AAS or "gear" as opposed to some light DHT PHs. But who knows, I'm going to go down to 400mg ED which is what I did before and saw positive results. Don't remember any gum issues then. Just another classic pain in the ass lol.

Try oil pulling for like 20 minutes every morning. I do while I'm in the shower for about 20 min, it really cleans up my teeth and is good for the gums (kills bacteria). I use coconut oil.

[Maxout777]

Try oil pulling for like 20 minutes every morning. I do while I'm in the shower for about 20 min, it really cleans up my teeth and is good for the gums (kills bacteria). I use coconut oil.

Yeah I'm gonna go with this. People have suggested it to me for years and I've never done it. Might as well incorporate it into the routine now. Thanks for the heads up!

[Maxout777]

So everything is going great on this second cycle except that my woman isn't in the mood right now ever because of stressful shit going on in her life, and of course I completely understand. And being on NoFap after being encouraged to do so for recovery, I'm on like my third week I think, without releasing and I'm beginning to have prostate swelling/maybe a slight bit of pressure? It's not necessarily painful but it is annoying. Wondering if it's healthy to keep this going while on this cycle? I still piss fine and everything else, and my sexual sides are on the rise to going away so I don't want to relapse if this is helping. Just worried about this strange sensation.

Maybe I should just take some Saw Palmetto, I heard it's good for the prostate. Lol.

Other than that everything is fantastic.

EDIT: Right after posting this it seems to have subsided for now. Per fucking usual lol. Always looking like an idiot. Oh well, time to smoke these birds....

[DrivenToRecover]

So everything is going great on this second cycle except that my woman isn't in the mood right now ever because of stressful shit going on in her life, and of course I completely understand. And being on NoFap after being encouraged to do so for recovery, I'm on like my third week I think, without releasing and I'm beginning to have prostate swelling/maybe a slight bit of pressure? It's not necessarily painful but it is annoying. Wondering if it's healthy to keep this going while on this cycle? I still piss fine and everything else, and my sexual sides are on the rise to going away so I don't want to relapse if this is helping. Just worried about this strange sensation.

Maybe I should just take some Saw Palmetto, I heard it's good for the prostate. Lol.

Other than that everything is fantastic.

EDIT: Right after posting this it seems to have subsided for now. Per fucking usual lol. Always looking like an idiot. Oh well, time to smoke these birds....

Day 24 of no fap for me as well, and it is a super weird feeling.

Have you been on the nofap subreddit? Some interesting things there about porn induced ED

Ya if you didn't know saw palmetto has also been known to increase testosterone too lol

I honestly get pissed off that I can go to any pharmacy or grocery store and see that shit on the shelves

[Maxout777]

Day 24 of no fap for me as well, and it is a super weird feeling.

Have you been on the nofap subreddit? Some interesting things there about porn induced ED

Ya if you didn't know saw palmetto has also been known to increase testosterone too lol

I honestly get pissed off that I can go to any pharmacy or grocery store and see that shit on the shelves

Yeah I've read on that subReddit before, some pretty awesome stories on there of guys rebooting their whole sex drive and EQ. I've noticed some major improvements here in the last week, so I'm kinda becoming a believer.

And yeah man it's annoying as hell when I see it on the shelf. Almost makes me want to buy the bottle and throw it away and write it off on my taxes as charitable contribution to society lol. Never would've imagined getting fucked over by OTC shit lol. Oh well, you live and you learn.


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[DrivenToRecover]

Yeah I've read on that subReddit before, some pretty awesome stories on there of guys rebooting their whole sex drive and EQ. I've noticed some major improvements here in the last week, so I'm kinda becoming a believer.

And yeah man it's annoying as hell when I see it on the shelf. Almost makes me want to buy the bottle and throw it away and write it off on my taxes as charitable contribution to society lol. Never would've imagined getting fucked over by OTC shit lol. Oh well, you live and you learn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

90 days seems to be the standard reset time where those guys see big improvements

If I'm just going about my day I don't have any kind of libido right now, but if I start edging I have this raging drive like a switch has been flipped.

Hopefully If i go long enough it will always be there

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I've read on that subReddit before, some pretty awesome stories on there of guys rebooting their whole sex drive and EQ. I've noticed some major improvements here in the last week, so I'm kinda becoming a believer.

And yeah man it's annoying as hell when I see it on the shelf. Almost makes me want to buy the bottle and throw it away and write it off on my taxes as charitable contribution to society lol. Never would've imagined getting fucked over by OTC shit lol. Oh well, you live and you learn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know you have issues with your bathmate, but using that in conjunction with edging gives fantastic results.

[Maxout777]

I know you have issues with your bathmate, but using that in conjunction with edging gives fantastic results.

I actually got it working - and have been doing just what you said. Results are pleasing so far. Yeah I went for the pun there - couldn't resist.


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[rahaysa]

Yeah I've read on that subReddit before, some pretty awesome stories on there of guys rebooting their whole sex drive and EQ. I've noticed some major improvements here in the last week, so I'm kinda becoming a believer.

And yeah man it's annoying as hell when I see it on the shelf. Almost makes me want to buy the bottle and throw it away and write it off on my taxes as charitable contribution to society lol. Never would've imagined getting fucked over by OTC shit lol. Oh well, you live and you learn.


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and believe me ... mysides with the fin was very little to nothing... i never crashed until i used saw plametto ... and they say it natural testosterone booster ...

[Cdsnuts]

90 days seems to be the standard reset time where those guys see big improvements

If I'm just going about my day I don't have any kind of libido right now, but if I start edging I have this raging drive like a switch has been flipped.

Hopefully If i go long enough it will always be there

If you're noticing this now, then you're going to be good to go.

[DrivenToRecover]

If you're noticing this now, then you're going to be good to go.

Glad to hear you say that!

From my short time at ph and solve pfs I did gather that my symptoms are more on the mental side and less on the sexual side.

Even at the worst I've never really lost morning wood or the ability to rub one out

[Maxout777]

Glad to hear you say that!

From my short time at ph and solve pfs I did gather that my symptoms are more on the mental side and less on the sexual side.

Even at the worst I've never really lost morning wood or the ability to rub one out

I can pretty much agree with this from my own personal experience - although I did lose morning wood. Performing in the sack just wasnt (and really still isnt) the same, and the drive to do so was non-existent at first for quite some time until just recently.

Speaking of those places, I don't spend much time there - but someone alerted me of this.....in case anyone was interested, they released their holy grail first "study" by the savior PFS foundation - showed pretty much nothing.

Shocking - the medical industry isn't going to fix its own fuck up. Those guys, man.

[Cdsnuts]

Glad to hear you say that!

From my short time at ph and solve pfs I did gather that my symptoms are more on the mental side and less on the sexual side.

Even at the worst I've never really lost morning wood or the ability to rub one out

Mental sides are definitely the worst aspect IMO....but still consider yourself lucky that you didn't get hit with the hormonal sides.

[Maxout777]

For anyone who's been following from the other thread - glycine continues to work magic. Sleep is so much more refreshing. I would probably recommend this to people immediately after crashing or quitting treatment.

Huge shout out to TubZy on that one. And for anyone who needs something to take down the anxiety at any time - it works fantastic for that too I would imagine. So laid back and chilled out after taking it prior to bedtime.

[Cdsnuts]

For anyone who's been following from the other thread - glycine continues to work magic. Sleep is so much more refreshing. I would probably recommend this to people immediately after crashing or quitting treatment.

Huge shout out to TubZy on that one. And for anyone who needs something to take down the anxiety at any time - it works fantastic for that too I would imagine. So laid back and chilled out after taking it prior to bedtime.

That's great. You go up to the 6 gram dose?

[Maxout777]

That's great. You go up to the 6 gram dose?

Yup - running 6g of Glycine powder 30 minutes before bed every night. No more melatonin, ever. Lol.

[DrivenToRecover]

Mental sides are definitely the worst aspect IMO....but still consider yourself lucky that you didn't get hit with the hormonal sides.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely have hormonal sides. Nofap is just helping with that a lot, and I just haven't had the extreme ones like I've read about.

For one, I definitely haven't lost any body hair like I've heard some talk about. I'm the type of dude that still has my beard literally connect to my chest hair if i don't shave it lol

[DrivenToRecover]

Yup - running 6g of Glycine powder 30 minutes before bed every night. No more melatonin, ever. Lol.

Dosing this tonight for the first time after a particularly stressful day. The way you've built it up I'm excited.

[Maxout777]

Dosing this tonight for the first time after a particularly stressful day. The way you've built it up I'm excited.

It definitely relaxes me and kinda gives that euphoric no anxiety feeling.

From a sleep standpoint I'm not sure that it necessarily helped me fall asleep as much as it helped with sleep quality....it might help fall asleep, don't get me wrong, I just can't speak for that as I haven't had that issue for awhile now.

Let us know how it works for you.

[DrivenToRecover]

I took 9 grams to make sure I felt the effects, and I did get somewhat of a headache. The timing could've been a coincidence, but maybe 9g is too much.

It definitely knocked me out though, and I do feel like I woke up with more energy than normal.

[TubZy]

I prefer grass-fed gelatin that I put in tea or just hot water and drink it before bed. It has naturally high amounts of glycine but also proline which both repair the gut, skin and joints. So you got the best of both worlds. I started with just isolated glycine but switched to gelatin due to more benefits. Only thing is that it is only hot water soluble so it can be a pain to mix if you don't drink coffee, tea etc. often.

[Cdsnuts]

I prefer grass-fed gelatin that I put in tea or just hot water and drink it before bed. It has naturally high amounts of glycine but also proline which both repair the gut, skin and joints. So you got the best of both worlds. I started with just isolated glycine but switched to gelatin due to more benefits. Only thing is that it is only hot water soluble so it can be a pain to mix if you don't drink coffee, tea etc. often.

I like this idea Tubz. This combined with skin brushing, avoiding personal care products and the generous intake of raw greens will take "skin glow" to the next level I believe. I've already been told on more then one occasion by more then a few women that I have the softest skin they've ever felt on a man. They love it. Not to mention the other benefits on joints and gut. Good skin is a great indicator of health and youth. I've also been told I look way younger then my almost 40 years.

[Maxout777]

Dang. 9g is a lot, I would tone that back down to 6. I'm going to add gelatin to my green smoothie now too, another good add-on.

I can also totally relate to skin quality reflecting health - my skin was absolute shit with dark circles under my eyes about 7 months ago. Much, much better now. Still have dark circles but I'm pretty sure I've always had them.....

[DrivenToRecover]

I prefer grass-fed gelatin that I put in tea or just hot water and drink it before bed. It has naturally high amounts of glycine but also proline which both repair the gut, skin and joints. So you got the best of both worlds. I started with just isolated glycine but switched to gelatin due to more benefits. Only thing is that it is only hot water soluble so it can be a pain to mix if you don't drink coffee, tea etc. often.

My plan was to mix the glycine powder and l-glutamine powder together, but this is probably even better. I might even do all 3.

Doing this at night really is fantastic for you, as your gut isn't having to process anything while you provide it with what it needs to heal.

Along that same line of thinking, I've been considering doing a bone broth/gelatin fast for a day or two to really settle down my inflammation.

[Maxout777]

My plan was to mix the glycine powder and l-glutamine powder together, but this is probably even better. I might even do all 3.

Doing this at night really is fantastic for you, as your gut isn't having to process anything while you provide it with what it needs to heal.

Along that same line of thinking, I've been considering doing a bone broth/gelatin fast for a day or two to really settle down my inflammation.


If you feel like you've still got inflammation, I'd try a bone broth fast for a couple days or just do another week long juice feast....should be cleansed well by then.

[DrivenToRecover]

If you feel like you've still got inflammation, I'd try a bone broth fast for a couple days or just do another week long juice feast....should be cleansed well by then.

Definitely still have inflammation. Google severe ulcerative colitis if you have the balls to see what inside me looks like lol.

I had a thought about possibly doing a hybrid juice feast/bone broth fast. The bone broth actually has a decent amount of protein, and the juice keeps your blood sugar from being too low, so together I think they could make for a cleanse that's sustainable for much longer than doing either one independently. Maybe even add coconut/olive oil in there too for some fat, and round out your
macro-nutrients?

I'd be curious to hear CD's opinion on this...at some point you'd just be doing an all liquid diet as opposed to a true cleanse, but it would be increasingly sustainable the more liquid foods you added.

[TubZy]

I like this idea Tubz. This combined with skin brushing, avoiding personal care products and the generous intake of raw greens will take "skin glow" to the next level I believe. I've already been told on more then one occasion by more then a few women that I have the softest skin they've ever felt on a man. They love it. Not to mention the other benefits on joints and gut. Good skin is a great indicator of health and youth. I've also been told I look way younger then my almost 40 years.

Funny you mention that haha. I get the same thing all the time. People always say how young I am or always assume I'm way younger than I actually am. Skin and muscles (and hair, well I try lol) and the three things I focus on from a cosmetic standpoint. Skin should be the primary focus though, you are right girls get jealous all the time haha.

[Maxout777]

Well, it's been awhile since I've made a little update.

I'm coming to the finish of my second cycle of R-Andro Rx. I'm at a really good place right now to where I don't think about this near as much as I used to. In my previous posts months ago I mentioned being 70% or 80% recovered, but there's no way that was the case......compared to even those posts, I feel amazing today. I'm not back 100%, but I've made significant strides in the sexual ballpark lately and mentally I'm pretty much as I was before or damn close to it. Continuing the regimen, and I can see myself being where I want to be in the next 6 months or so if my pace continues like it has (next month will be my 6th or 7th month following this regimen 100%....cant remember the exact day I started lol). I look forward to things again, and more importantly my day-to-day thoughts aren't about this shit anymore, and that has been huge I believe....an absolute relief.

I post this update because I won't be around much for the next few months. I want to follow the advice of English to avoid getting into this talk and chatter about this stuff. I don't mind helping guys out but at the moment I've finally got my thoughts back and how they need to be and I'd just prefer to be away from it for a little bit. I wish there was more non-PFS talk going on on the site at the moment to engage in but things are a little slow at the moment. I'm so thankful to CD, English, and everyone who has either helped or supported me through this - it's been a life changing experience, and I'm not even finished yet. I'm a better person, friend, brother, son, and most importantly fiance/boyfriend/husband than I ever would've been before this happened to me. I no longer use the crutch of alcohol to fight inner demons (PTSD and other shit that will go with me for the rest of my life probably) and I genuinely enjoying being, even in a less than optimal state. People who I work with have even commented that it's good to see me "back" and I never even really told them I had anything wrong with me......so that's a good sign right there. Looking back at my lifestyle prior to this - I was slowly killing myself through booze, drugs, shitty sleeping habits, and I was loving every minute of it. Knowing what I know now, I'm confident I will have a much healthier and fulfilling life going forward.

I've been unfortunate that life has thrown me many curveballs in my past, and getting through those definitely helped spark my belief that I could get through this. I had pretty much conquered my PTSD (or at least got to the point where I wasn't significantly bothered by it) in the years before I got slammed with PFS - so this is the second thing I'm slowly laying to rest.

Thank you guys again, so much. I will never be able to repay the amount of gratitude I have for helping me save my life. I have a future to look forward to again, and all of this work I've done and continue to do has been SO, SO WORTH IT.

[TubZy]

Well, it's been awhile since I've made a little update.

I'm coming to the finish of my second cycle of R-Andro Rx. I'm at a really good place right now to where I don't think about this near as much as I used to. In my previous posts months ago I mentioned being 70% or 80% recovered, but there's no way that was the case......compared to even those posts, I feel amazing today. I'm not back 100%, but I've made significant strides in the sexual ballpark lately and mentally I'm pretty much as I was before or damn close to it. Continuing the regimen, and I can see myself being where I want to be in the next 6 months or so if my pace continues like it has (next month will be my 6th or 7th month following this regimen 100%....cant remember the exact day I started lol). I look forward to things again, and more importantly my day-to-day thoughts aren't about this shit anymore, and that has been huge I believe....an absolute relief.

I post this update because I won't be around much for the next few months. I want to follow the advice of English to avoid getting into this talk and chatter about this stuff. I don't mind helping guys out but at the moment I've finally got my thoughts back and how they need to be and I'd just prefer to be away from it for a little bit. I wish there was more non-PFS talk going on on the site at the moment to engage in but things are a little slow at the moment. I'm so thankful to CD, English, and everyone who has either helped or supported me through this - it's been a life changing experience, and I'm not even finished yet. I'm a better person, friend, brother, son, and most importantly fiance/boyfriend/husband than I ever would've been before this happened to me. I no longer use the crutch of alcohol to fight inner demons (PTSD and other shit that will go with me for the rest of my life probably) and I genuinely enjoying being, even in a less than optimal state. People who I work with have even commented that it's good to see me "back" and I never even really told them I had anything wrong with me......so that's a good sign right there. Looking back at my lifestyle prior to this - I was slowly killing myself through booze, drugs, shitty sleeping habits, and I was loving every minute of it. Knowing what I know now, I'm confident I will have a much healthier and fulfilling life going forward.

I've been unfortunate that life has thrown me many curveballs in my past, and getting through those definitely helped spark my belief that I could get through this. I had pretty much conquered my PTSD (or at least got to the point where I wasn't significantly bothered by it) in the years before I got slammed with PFS - so this is the second thing I'm slowly laying to rest.

Thank you guys again, so much. I will never be able to repay the amount of gratitude I have for helping me save my life. I have a future to look forward to again, and all of this work I've done and continue to do has been SO, SO WORTH IT.

Awesome man!!

[xxLUK]

Great motivation maxout, very inspiring. Thank you for this post my dude.

[Luca]

Hi Guys, can someone confirm that this is the the R Alpha Rx supplement that you guys are using? Thanks

1-Andro Rx Prohormone 60 Caps | IronMagLabs (http://www.mysupplementstore.com/ironmag-labs-1-andro-rx-60-caps.html)

[Luca]

Oh, no, I guess it's this one?:

Super R-Andro Prohormones (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-r-andro-rx/?add-to-cart=1023452)

Does one bottle equal one cycle?

[Maxout777]

Oh, no, I guess it's this one?:

Super R-Andro Prohormones (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-r-andro-rx/?add-to-cart=1023452)

Does one bottle equal one cycle?

This is the correct product. To answer the second question, no, not usually. Each cap is 100 mg, therefore if you ran it like I've done.....at 400 mg/day and 600 mg/day on my two respective runs, you would need 4-6 caps per day. I ran my cycles at 6 weeks each. You can do the math after that, but I think I used right under 3 bottles my first run and right over 4 bottles for my second.

[Luca]

Thanks Maxout. Any place you recommend buying it? If not I will order 3 bottles from that site.

[Maxout777]

That site is the original manufacturer and they have a buy 3 get one free sale going on if you add 4 bottles to the cart.....I'd suggest capitalizing on that offer from them.

[Luca]

Thanks. Will do!

[Luca]

I finally received my order today! Got 4 bottles!

[Cdsnuts]

I finally received my order today! Got 4 bottles!

Let us know how it goes. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Maxout777]

I finally received my order today! Got 4 bottles!
Best of luck my friend. Just remember to stick to everything you've been doing besides herb cycling while on the run. Just swapping one element out for another.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[rmoore]

Hey Maxout777 what brand of Polyrhachis Ant you take. On Lost Empire I see Black Ant? Also Kombucha is ok to drink since it has traces of alcohol? and what brand you take?

[Cdsnuts]

Hey Maxout777 what brand of Polyrhachis Ant you take. On Lost Empire I see Black Ant? Also Kombucha is ok to drink since it has traces of alcohol? and what brand you take?

He uses this: Black Polyrhachis Ant Extract - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/antextract/cdsnuts/)

Hope you don't mind Maxout....

[Maxout777]

Hey Maxout777 what brand of Polyrhachis Ant you take. On Lost Empire I see Black Ant? Also Kombucha is ok to drink since it has traces of alcohol? and what brand you take?

See CD's answer for the Ant. For Kombucha, it really has trace alcohol in it......not enough to be concerned about. This is the issue a lot of PFS guys have is they over-think this kinda stuff. Eggs have beta-sitosterol in them, which for example is a 5AR inhibitor (if we're really getting deep into it, it's actually one of the main ingredients in Saw Palmetto, which fucked me)...however eating a shit ton of eggs isn't going to make your dick quit working. Nor is avocado, or anything else the guys on the other forums avoid. Just a massive mind fuck for no reason......I've been there too, mainly because of shit I read on there. I'd never suggest or do something that I thought would hurt me or anyone else. For example, ironically I used to take Muscle Pharm's Shred Matrix a few times a year and I looked at it the other day in an ad online, and low and behold, it had Saw Palmetto Berry in it, but not extract. Never once did I have any problems on it.......but the first time I took liquid Saw Palmetto Extract gelcaps, well the rest is history. It's all about amount and strength of what you take......8 mg (if that) of beta sit in eggs and avocado aren't doing anything to you. As long as you avoid the main things, (hard alcohol, pharms, SP extract, fenugreek, nettle) you should be g2g.

As far as Kombucha brand goes, doesn't really matter but normally I get GT's Kombucha or Kevita Master Brew.


He uses this: Black Polyrhachis Ant Extract - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/antextract/cdsnuts/)

Hope you don't mind Maxout....

No problemo senor.

[rmoore]

Thanks Maxout and CD for the info and advice about over thinking on food and supplements on what to avoid and not. It really puts things in perspective for me. I can't wait for my first batch of herbs to come in. I just found this forum this last week and copied CD's protocol on a word document along with Maxout and will implement it. I already workout hard 6 days a week for about 20 years now and diet will not be a problem. Any recommendations on order of the herbs to take like Monday would be a T Booster and Tuesday would be a Cognitive one etc... also since Monday I have been doing juicing until lunch everyday and food for lunch and dinner and it has been great. I feel like I have more energy and mental clarity. Can't wait till I probably do a 2 week juice feast. Thanks you guys for this great info and protocol to follow.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks Maxout and CD for the info and advice about over thinking on food and supplements on what to avoid and not. It really puts things in perspective for me. I can't wait for my first batch of herbs to come in. I just found this forum this last week and copied CD's protocol on a word document along with Maxout and will implement it. I already workout hard 6 days a week for about 20 years now and diet will not be a problem. Any recommendations on order of the herbs to take like Monday would be a T Booster and Tuesday would be a Cognitive one etc... also since Monday I have been doing juicing until lunch everyday and food for lunch and dinner and it has been great. I feel like I have more energy and mental clarity. Can't wait till I probably do a 2 week juice feast. Thanks you guys for this great info and protocol to follow.

The herbs don't have to be taken in any particular order....that is completely up to you and your preference. Just get as many of them as you can afford and make sure to rotate them properly. The more you have in your arsenal the more varied the ways you're going to boost testosterone is. This is important. You want to hit it from as many different angles as possible. What works well for some, may not work well for others, and vice versa. So this is why you want to have ALL of your bases covered.

This is actually a good way to go about juicing if you've never done it before. You're getting your body primed and ready to get clean. Seeing as you've been juicing a little every day, it's not going to be so much of a shock to your system as someone who just jumps right into a couple week juice feast cold. The cleanse is one of the most important aspects of starting this program and it's the one that most people skimp out on.

[xxLUK]

i just want to ask, were you suffering from brainfog/emotional numbness aswell as sexual symptoms? im wanting to know how did the emotional numbness go away, what were the first things you noticed as you were beginning to feel alive again?

i'd just like to know the progression of things like were you able to feel small vibes again, then slowly take interest and appreciation in things?

[Maxout777]

i just want to ask, were you suffering from brainfog/emotional numbness aswell as sexual symptoms? im wanting to know how did the emotional numbness go away, what were the first things you noticed as you were beginning to feel alive again?

i'd just like to know the progression of things like were you able to feel small vibes again, then slowly take interest and appreciation in things?

I don't recall exactly when it happened but it was definitely gradual. Appeared, went way, came back, repeat, until it just stayed.

Brain fog lifted most noticeably after my juice feast.

[DrivenToRecover]

i just want to ask, were you suffering from brainfog/emotional numbness aswell as sexual symptoms? im wanting to know how did the emotional numbness go away, what were the first things you noticed as you were beginning to feel alive again?

i'd just like to know the progression of things like were you able to feel small vibes again, then slowly take interest and appreciation in things?

Yep. Gradual return of appreciation/enjoyment for things.
One of the things that has come back for me first is that music is enjoyable to listen to again. Especially EDM. It gives me goosebumps again :) Whatever kind of music puts you in a good mood...blast that shit. I do it basically every morning now and its a huge mood boost.

I also went downtown for new years last night and was thoroughly enjoying being sober and just people watching lol...Random drunk girl saying I was cute, random drunk girl whipping out her tits, and today at the grocery store I got to bust a dudes car window with a rock because he locked his keys in haha

If I could give advice to anyone really down mentally (me 8 months ago) its that you still need to go out and try to live life in the same way. Doing stuff that was fun before might not be as fun but its a helllllll of a lot better than sitting alone in your room all day on your computer...even if that's what you feel like doing. (also me 8 months ago)

[Maxout777]

Yep. Gradual return of appreciation/enjoyment for things.
One of the things that has come back for me first is that music is enjoyable to listen to again. Especially EDM. It gives me goosebumps again :) Whatever kind of music puts you in a good mood...blast that shit. I do it basically every morning now and its a huge mood boost.

I also went downtown for new years last night and was thoroughly enjoying being sober and just people watching lol...Random drunk girl saying I was cute, random drunk girl whipping out her tits, and today at the grocery store I got to bust a dudes car window with a rock because he locked his keys in haha

If I could give advice to anyone really down mentally (me 8 months ago) its that you still need to go out and try to live life in the same way. Doing stuff that was fun before might not be as fun but its a helllllll of a lot better than sitting alone in your room all day on your computer...even if that's what you feel like doing. (also me 8 months ago)

This last paragraph is spot, damn, on. Folks who are struggling have to stop making PFS the centre point of their whole day, and start living life again. Thinking of this shit sun up to sun down, is not going to get anyone anywhere.

LIVE.

[DrivenToRecover]

This last paragraph is spot, damn, on. Folks who are struggling have to stop making PFS the centre point of their whole day, and start living life again. Thinking of this shit sun up to sun down, is not going to get anyone anywhere.

LIVE.

Its so much easier to have the right mentality when you have a clear path laid out in front of you though. The biggest component of depression/hopelessness, to me, is not seeing a future for yourself.

Unfortunately, there are a few choice websites that seem to facilitate that hopeless attitude, and its so damn counterproductive. I get mad at myself for buying into it for the short time that I did...

CD, when your site is up and running, I think it would be amazing if the search engine optimization eventually lead people to your site before any others for any sort of propecia/pfs problems. I'm just imagining if the first (and only) thing I read online was "relax, you're gonna be okay. Here's how you fix this."

[Maxout777]

Its so much easier to have the right mentality when you have a clear path laid out in front of you though. The biggest component of depression/hopelessness, to me, is not seeing a future for yourself.

Unfortunately, there are a few choice websites that seem to facilitate that hopeless attitude, and its so damn counterproductive. I get mad at myself for buying into it for the short time that I did...

CD, when your site is up and running, I think it would be amazing if the search engine optimization eventually lead people to your site before any others for any sort of propecia/pfs problems. I'm just imagining if the first (and only) thing I read online was "relax, you're gonna be okay. Here's how you fix this."

You're spot on about that too. I wish the first place people went wasn't a hopeless pit of "you're doomed and nothing ever gets better, I lost my wife, my career, my everything...." I mean that is just too much on a person. I too, was in that helpless state and made a post on PH right after stopping. My biggest regret was shitting myself senseless by reading that every day on the hour at work. Had such a panic attack I ended up leaving to go the ER three days in. Literally had to force myself to go to work and hated every moment of the day. That's all a thing of the past now.

Positivity would've went a long way back then and I wish I had found this site even sooner than I did. That's why I still argue with users on the other site from time to time. The constant need of undisciplined people who will not try to better themselves to disprove and put down that any recovery protocol can work, sets the new guys back who stumble upon those sites and could get started right away on recovery. I believe, and this is just my opinion, that the quicker you start the protocol after crashing/deteriorating, that it helps speed up your recovery. But unfortunately people don't start it early because all they see on the other sites is some Jack wagon who's been posting there for years telling people how it doesn't work because "he's tried it" but fails to mention he only did one or two parts of the routine. It's really annoying to me. The amount of time that guys spend trying to say that CD isn't really recovered and that alcohol or going off herbs, or straying from his diet knocks him "back into PFS" is just ASTOUNDING. I have never seen so many grown ass men try to personally attack someone or keep up with another man's affairs.

End rant.....I talk too much. So much for being concise, I was doing really well too!

[xxLUK]

Yep. Gradual return of appreciation/enjoyment for things.
One of the things that has come back for me first is that music is enjoyable to listen to again. Especially EDM. It gives me goosebumps again :) Whatever kind of music puts you in a good mood...blast that shit. I do it basically every morning now and its a huge mood boost.

I also went downtown for new years last night and was thoroughly enjoying being sober and just people watching lol...Random drunk girl saying I was cute, random drunk girl whipping out her tits, and today at the grocery store I got to bust a dudes car window with a rock because he locked his keys in haha

If I could give advice to anyone really down mentally (me 8 months ago) its that you still need to go out and try to live life in the same way. Doing stuff that was fun before might not be as fun but its a helllllll of a lot better than sitting alone in your room all day on your computer...even if that's what you feel like doing. (also me 8 months ago)

thanks alot man, ive only truly started paleo and other stuff. and the most noticeable part is my sleep is better and i dont feel completely annihilated when i wake up anymore, that is the first change ive seen and also i pickup on small little vibes every now and then, like the vibe you get on a warm summers day or something you kind of feed off it, i have that at times and it makes me feel human again, im 100% certain im going to recover now since ive changed up my stuff and looked into things more.

[Cdsnuts]

You're spot on about that too. I wish the first place people went wasn't a hopeless pit of "you're doomed and nothing ever gets better, I lost my wife, my career, my everything...." I mean that is just too much on a person. I too, was in that helpless state and made a post on PH right after stopping. My biggest regret was shitting myself senseless by reading that every day on the hour at work. Had such a panic attack I ended up leaving to go the ER three days in. Literally had to force myself to go to work and hated every moment of the day. That's all a thing of the past now.

Positivity would've went a long way back then and I wish I had found this site even sooner than I did. That's why I still argue with users on the other site from time to time. The constant need of undisciplined people who will not try to better themselves to disprove and put down that any recovery protocol can work, sets the new guys back who stumble upon those sites and could get started right away on recovery. I believe, and this is just my opinion, that the quicker you start the protocol after crashing/deteriorating, that it helps speed up your recovery. But unfortunately people don't start it early because all they see on the other sites is some Jack wagon who's been posting there for years telling people how it doesn't work because "he's tried it" but fails to mention he only did one or two parts of the routine. It's really annoying to me. The amount of time that guys spend trying to say that CD isn't really recovered and that alcohol or going off herbs, or straying from his diet knocks him "back into PFS" is just ASTOUNDING. I have never seen so many grown ass men try to personally attack someone or keep up with another man's affairs.

End rant.....I talk too much. So much for being concise, I was doing really well too!

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

[Maxout777]

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

Completely agree with everything you just said.

To put in perspective how bad I wanted to get back to normal, not long after crashing I was taking a walk with my father on the farm land my family owns and hunts on.....I was describing just how I was feeling and how shitty life was at the time, basically just to anyone I trusted enough to care. His reply was, as most old, Southern near 70 year old men are, was very sarcastic and dry, "well what extent would you go to to get out of where you are?"

To that I simply replied, "if my only cure was drinking a homeless man's piss every day, I'd show up at the shelter every morning with a thermos and a smile on my face."

As gross as that sounds, that's how damn bad I wanted it. I don't take well to being fucked over by anything.

[DrivenToRecover]

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

This is no way an excuse to not work towards recovery, but I think I can shed some light on how you could get stuck in the cycle of not recovering...

1) I think guys get used to how they feel over time. I know after I was first starting the protocol for a while I wondered if I was actually getting better or was more time just passing, and allowing me to be more comfortable in this state. Some of both I think.

2) This thing is harder to overcome because the thing in and of itself puts you in a passive state that you must fight to escape. It was sooo hard at first to be assertive to this thing, but that's exactly what you have to do. People that have never dealt with much adversity previously in their lives might really struggle to push through.

just my .02...It is quite sad though.

[Cdsnuts]

This is no way an excuse to not work towards recovery, but I think I can shed some light on how you could get stuck in the cycle of not recovering...

1) I think guys get used to how they feel over time. I know after I was first starting the protocol for a while I actually wondered if I was actually getting better or was more time just passing, and allowing me to be more comfortable in this state. Some of both I think.

2) This thing is harder to overcome because the thing in and of itself puts you in a passive state that you must fight to escape. It was sooo hard at first to be assertive to this thing, but that's exactly what you have to do. People that have never dealt with much adversity previously in their lives might really struggle to push through.

just my .02...It is quite sad though.

I hear what you're saying, but imo, you NEVER get used to not having your dick work OR your mind not work for that matter.....ever. Every personal interaction, every memory, every single day you wake up, it's in your face. Every conversation that you have when the moment comes for you to make your witty quip, and nothing but blankness is in your head...these things never get easy. it's a constant reminder of your deficit. ESPECIALLY when talking to women.

If you're healing, I can tell you that it's because it's from what you're doing about it.

Believe it or not, the hardest part is the last 10-15%. At this point you can taste it....smell it....you're so close, but still far enough to piss you off. THIS is when you need to buckle down the most. At this stage, one day you will just wake up and 'HAVE IT" and it's glorious. Only for the next day to roll around and you're back in a funk. The good days will get longer and longer until the bad days just happen once in awhile....BUT STILL, you need to stay the course. Eventually you'll look back and realized you haven't had a bad day in weeks.....then months....and then it's just....gone.

You guys will all get there. As long as you're doing everything you need to be doing, it will be yours. This is FACT.

[Cdsnuts]

Completely agree with everything you just said.

To put in perspective how bad I wanted to get back to normal, not long after crashing I was taking a walk with my father on the farm land my family owns and hunts on.....I was describing just how I was feeling and how shitty life was at the time, basically just to anyone I trusted enough to care. His reply was, as most old, Southern near 70 year old men are, was very sarcastic and dry, "well what extent would you go to to get out of where you are?"

To that I simply replied, "if my only cure was drinking a homeless man's piss every day, I'd show up at the shelter every morning with a thermos and a smile on my face."

As gross as that sounds, that's how damn bad I wanted it. I don't take well to being fucked over by anything.

And for this very reason alone, I told you you were going to be fine. THAT is the mindset you need to have.

[DrivenToRecover]

I hear what you're saying, but imo, you NEVER get used to not having your dick work OR your mind not work for that matter.....ever. Every personal interaction, every memory, every single day you wake up, it's in your face. Every conversation that you have when the moment comes for you to make your witty quip, and nothing but blankness is in your head...these things never get easy. it's a constant reminder of your deficit. ESPECIALLY when talking to women.

If you're healing, I can tell you that it's because it's from what you're doing about it.

Believe it or not, the hardest part is the last 10-15%. At this point you can taste it....smell it....you're so close, but still far enough to piss you off. THIS is when you need to buckle down the most. At this stage, one day you will just wake up and 'HAVE IT" and it's glorious. Only for the next day to roll around and you're back in a funk. The good days will get longer and longer until the bad days just happen once in awhile....BUT STILL, you need to stay the course. Eventually you'll look back and realized you haven't had a bad day in weeks.....then months....and then it's just....gone.

You guys will all get there. As long as you're doing everything you need to be doing, it will be yours. This is FACT.

What do you think the process of recovery actually is? I don't think I've ever actually heard it articulated simplistically...

Raising 5ar through different pathways eventually fixes the effects of low 5ar?

[Brazilianguy]

Cd is right about the last 10-15% recovery. I got there once and I was really pissed of. In that time I was really enjoying being almost recovered, I was very alpha fucking all the girls I could lol, even some friends said to me "take it easy buddy you don't want to get a STD or something."

Then I found a protocol of 3 guys who got cured (light at the end, Elb and beekay) they were cycling herbs, doing exercises, good diet, no stress and applying progesterone cream and they thought progesterone were responsible for their recovery. Then I said why not, I started to apply and started to crash (it's a 5ari btw).

Later I started to think that their recovery wasn't the progesterone and I also achieved 75% cured once doing exactly what they did but without progesterone and then I linked all the recoveries I read on PH and many other forums, many other "syndromes" and they were basically: Diet, exercise, herbs, no stress.

All the guys who recovered did the same thing consistently over time, taking a break to make the body refresh. Just to name a few: Cdnuts, light at the end, Elb, beekay, big softie, istherehope, Hopingformore, Apr1989, Mlevyholden, multispeed27, English, Entropy (the guy that I always argued here lol), freepressright, Nate (both in swolesource) just to name a few, if I count on other forums I would put 10+ recoveries, but the point is that they did EXACTLY THE SAME PROTOCOL. When I reached 75% I was doing the exactly same protocol without even knowing.

What I'm trying to say is that all the guys who got cured they basically did the most simple and smart approach, try to do the opposite of what the pill did, they basically did everything that everybody knows is good for our body like diet, exercises, and they put the power of nature from the herbs and recovered. Our body and mind is incredible and I would also say that God put everything we need in the nature, every cure for every disease, syndrome etc. I don't know, when I got this click in my head when I achieved 75% recovered I noticed that life can give us literally everything we want and that we are so connected to the nature, to our ancestors that when we restablish this connection everything works perfectly for us.

Sorry for this huge text and a bit religious craziness but it is what it is lol.

[Cdsnuts]

What do you think the process of recovery actually is? I don't think I've ever actually heard it articulated simplistically...

Raising 5ar through different pathways eventually fixes the effects of low 5ar?

I would say it's a variety of things all coming back online.....slowly.

increased 5ar production....this increases necessary neurosteroids to combat anxiety, insomnia, namley allopregnanolone.
Increased DHT production
increased Testoserone.
Lower cortisol levels
Decreased or eliminated inflammation in the gut and brain
Strengthened nerve impulses.

The list goes on.

PFS effects so many different bodily systems it's unbelievable.

[DrivenToRecover]

I would say it's a variety of things all coming back online.....slowly.

increased 5ar production....this increases necessary neurosteroids to combat anxiety, insomnia, namley allopregnanolone.
Increased DHT production
increased Testoserone.
Lower cortisol levels
Decreased or eliminated inflammation in the gut and brain
Strengthened nerve impulses.

The list goes on.

PFS effects so many different bodily systems it's unbelievable.

It definitely does effect a lot. The gut health aspect is something that I wish was more discussed here. The juice feast helps out a lot with inflammation, but lots of people have tested positive for bacterial overgrowths/dysbiosis. Myself included. A juice feast and going paleo isn't necessarily going to fix these types of problems. SIBO, candida, ect have their own unique protocols and pfs like symptoms.

Your approach is excellent for the hormonal aspects that need to be addressed, but I think gut health (for my own case & likely others) is critical & maybe is the #1 thing that determines how the downstream effects of 5ar inhibition manifest themselves in different people.

One personal thing that supports this is that my gut was in awful shape before even starting fin. I was having bloody diarrhea 5-10 times per day, and I could tell just 2 days after quitting that I was crashing. Just 5 days after quitting was the toughest day I've had... from what I've gathered, this is a time table that is greatly accelerated when compared to most. Almost like your gut health is what props up your system and keeps it from crashing?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Maxout777]

It definitely does effect a lot. The gut health aspect is something that I wish was more discussed here. The juice feast helps out a lot with inflammation, but lots of people have tested positive for bacterial overgrowths/dysbiosis. Myself included. A juice feast and going paleo isn't necessarily going to fix these types of problems. SIBO, candida, ect have their own unique protocols and pfs like symptoms.

Your approach is excellent for the hormonal aspects that need to be addressed, but I think gut health (for my own case & likely others) is critical & maybe is the #1 thing that determines how the downstream effects of 5ar inhibition manifest themselves in different people.

One personal thing that supports this is that my gut was in awful shape before even starting fin. I was having bloody diarrhea 5-10 times per day, and I could tell just 2 days after quitting that I was crashing. Just 5 days after quitting was the toughest day I've had... from what I've gathered, this is a time table that is greatly accelerated when compared to most. Almost like your gut health is what props up your system and keeps it from crashing?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
FWIW, my gut was in shit shape before SP too. Matter of fact I had my gallbladder removed a month or so before crashing. Could be coincidental but who knows.

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[DrivenToRecover]

FWIW, my gut was in shit shape before SP too. Matter of fact I had my gallbladder removed a month or so before crashing. Could be coincidental but who knows.

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My IBD that had been in full remission for 7 years flared up after a year of taking SP.

Possibly. Your gallbladder is in a small way responsible for hormones.. Gallbladder--bile--fats--cholesterol--hormones. The fact that you are doing so well now though suggests its not a big issue.

Do you take any sort of bile supplement like ox bile? I've considered it because of my liver issues.

[Maxout777]

My IBD that had been in full remission for 7 years flared up after a year of taking SP.

Possibly. Your gallbladder is in a small way responsilbe for hormones.. Gallbladder--bile--fats--cholesterol--hormones. The fact that you are doing so well now though suggests its not a big issue.

Do you take any sort of bile supplement like ox bile? I've considered it because of my liver issues.
Nah, I've never taken anything bile related. It worried me at first that not having a gallbladder and a bad gut would set me back in recovery but I've had no major road blocks.

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[Cdsnuts]

It definitely does effect a lot. The gut health aspect is something that I wish was more discussed here. The juice feast helps out a lot with inflammation, but lots of people have tested positive for bacterial overgrowths/dysbiosis. Myself included. A juice feast and going paleo isn't necessarily going to fix these types of problems. SIBO, candida, ect have their own unique protocols and pfs like symptoms.

Your approach is excellent for the hormonal aspects that need to be addressed, but I think gut health (for my own case & likely others) is critical & maybe is the #1 thing that determines how the downstream effects of 5ar inhibition manifest themselves in different people.

One personal thing that supports this is that my gut was in awful shape before even starting fin. I was having bloody diarrhea 5-10 times per day, and I could tell just 2 days after quitting that I was crashing. Just 5 days after quitting was the toughest day I've had... from what I've gathered, this is a time table that is greatly accelerated when compared to most. Almost like your gut health is what props up your system and keeps it from crashing?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Gut health is huge....I'm sure you've heard of the gut brain connection, or the gut being considered the "second brain" of your body. It's also the "engine" that keeps your system running. Sluggish digestion leads to sluggish waste elimination which leads to a sluggish person. But I disagree with the gut being a major player for MOST people. I've talked to alot of guys and some have stomach issues and some don't...at all. I never did. It's typically hormonal or mental 95% of the time and usually a blend of both. And, honestly, you went into PFS with pre existing health conditions that are stand alone above all else.

In a "normal" guy, a long water fast or extended juice feast will address the gut concerns 100%. Along for detox purposes, that is the other reason they're part of the deal. Gut biome completely changes for the better after a fast and candida is all but eliminated. You just have to go long enough.

Unfortunately, for you....and don't take this the wrong way....you're compromised because of your use of pharmaceuticals and pre-existing health state going into PFS. The number one thing I tell everyone, is that this program is about taking your health to the next level to facilitate an increased healing response which happens over time.

It's really hard to "get clean" when you're still taking the pharms. I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but it is what it is.

[rmoore]

Hey CD. How long would you say is a good length on a juice feast. I'm on day 11 so far on mine and will go far 21 days. Wondering if you think that is good enough. I can go longer the feast is not really hard at all to do. Just not working out is killing me. I will do one or two more juice feast during the year. After the feast I will do the herb cycle. I have 10 of the herbs all from lost empire. I will get five more next week. Just need to get the herbs like trib and suma root and a few others that lost empire don't have from somewhere else.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey CD. How long would you say is a good length on a juice feast. I'm on day 11 so far on mine and will go far 21 days. Wondering if you think that is good enough. I can go longer the feast is not really hard at all to do. Just not working out is killing me. I will do one or two more juice feast during the year. After the feast I will do the herb cycle. I have 10 of the herbs all from lost empire. I will get five more next week. Just need to get the herbs like trib and suma root and a few others that lost empire don't have from somewhere else.

The longer you go on the feast, the better the results will be. Especially if your hit really hard. You're better off getting a good one in there as opposed to feasting....building back up.....feasting again, losing what you built, only to have to build it back up again, etc. Sometimes you're going to have to do that. Other times one good cleanse will do the job. It's different depending on your condition.

Yes, feasting is easy compared to water fasting and yet you still get great results.

[Maxout777]

Just a quick tidbit, I've never been sick during my run with PFS, and today I woke up feeling like shit with a fever (no PFS feeling like shit symptoms). I've also read most folks with PFS never get sick. Guess this is good news for me lol.

Guess theres some optimism in being sick. Tear em up this weekend boys....I'll be laid up.

[Maxout777]

Just wanted to update this, with the exception of a little twist to my member, flaky libido, and eye floaters, I'm fully recovered from what I consider PFS. These are still coming and going in waves for the most part so I don't think it'll be too much longer before I can write the final chapter....I'd say operating around 90%.....And that's around 10 months or so on the protocol now? Just to give you new guys hope, it's so easy to do once you make it routine. I don't even consider myself to be doin anything other than living at this point.

Stick at it, you'll all be there soon too.

[Cdsnuts]

Just wanted to update this, with the exception of a little twist to my member, flaky libido, and eye floaters, I'm fully recovered from what I consider PFS. These are still coming and going in waves for the most part so I don't think it'll be too much longer before I can write the final chapter....I'd say operating around 90%.....And that's around 10 months or so on the protocol now? Just to give you new guys hope, it's so easy to do once you make it routine. I don't even consider myself to be doin anything other than living at this point.

Stick at it, you'll all be there soon too.
Congratulations max out... But I knew from the beginning you had the tenacity to see it through. This doesn't surprise me one bit.

Now the fun part starts where you'll start to go above and beyond what you were before you got hit with PFS. This is when things start to get really good.

Great job man.

What are your thoughts on me making a recovery sticky in the PFS section?

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[Maxout777]

Congratulations max out... But I knew from the beginning you had the tenacity to see it through. This doesn't surprise me one bit.

Now the fun part starts where you'll start to go above and beyond what you were before you got hit with PFS. This is when things start to get really good.

Great job man.

What are your thoughts on me making a recovery sticky in the PFS section?

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Thanks brother, LITERALLY couldn't have done it with out you lol.

I'd think that's an awesome idea. Considering prop help doesn't seem to accept new recovery posts anyway. Works for me. Would probably help others here when they first arrive too.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks brother, LITERALLY couldn't have done it with out you lol.

I'd think that's an awesome idea. Considering prop help doesn't seem to accept new recovery posts anyway. Works for me. Would probably help others here when they first arrive too.
If everone followed instructions as well as you and stayed committed, my job would be easy....lol.

Enjoy it! You deserve it.

And I agree about the recovery section... As more and more of you guys get there and the section fills up, it will serve as motivation for the new arrivals.

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[5 alpha victim]

Just wanted to update this, with the exception of a little twist to my member, flaky libido, and eye floaters, I'm fully recovered from what I consider PFS. These are still coming and going in waves for the most part so I don't think it'll be too much longer before I can write the final chapter....I'd say operating around 90%.....And that's around 10 months or so on the protocol now? Just to give you new guys hope, it's so easy to do once you make it routine. I don't even consider myself to be doin anything other than living at this point.

Stick at it, you'll all be there soon too.
Congratulations

At 100 percent will you continue with this protocol?

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[Maxout777]

Congratulations

At 100 percent will you continue with this protocol?

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Yeah, I don't really consider it any different than normal life at this point. Ill probably drink alcohol again on occasion but like CD said, it's been so long now that I almost prefer being sober now. Just is what it is.

If you buy in for a few months 100% it becomes easy as hell. Just wake up, lather, rinse, repeat. And you can rest easy knowing you've done everything in your power. Literally too easy.

[Cdsnuts]

Congratulations

At 100 percent will you continue with this protocol?

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At 100%, that's when things start to get interesting. You can really start to see how good you can feel on a daily basis.

[K8668B]

Congratulations man

[Atticas]

Just a quick tidbit, I've never been sick during my run with PFS, and today I woke up feeling like shit with a fever (no PFS feeling like shit symptoms). I've also read most folks with PFS never get sick. Guess this is good news for me lol.

Guess theres some optimism in being sick. Tear em up this weekend boys....I'll be laid up.

Man, if this is a good sign, hopefully i'm getting better soon, cuz I've been feeling sick AFFFFFFFFFFFF today...

Freakin outdoor allergies

[K8668B]

I just went back and read this entire thread. I was having good days for awhile (mood wise), but today i felt like i hit a roadblock and was feeling shitty earlier. After reading this entire thread, i must say that this is one of the most inspirational lights of hope I have ever seen. Once again, congratulations brotha

[Maxout777]

Seeing as I did the same for my topic on Propecia Help today, and there may be a few visitors to look at this log from there......

It's all fucking over. I'm healed. Haven't had any downswings or regressions in the last three months.....don't expect to anytime soon.

[PeterA]

Seeing as I did the same for my topic on Propecia Help today, and there may be a few visitors to look at this log from there......

It's all fucking over. I'm healed. Haven't had any downswings or regressions in the last three months.....don't expect to anytime soon.

Im really happy for you!!!! Nice to hear!!
Tell us again in a few weeks when you've been drunk a couple of times how you feel.
Not only 2 drinks - but drunk ;-)
I would really appreciate that brother!
And again congratulations!!

[K8668B]

Congrats maxout!!! Proud of you brotha

[Snell1234]

Brilliant! So happy for you! You deserve it with all the effort you have put in. This should serve as inspiration for everyone else. About 12 months of following the protocol and you are healed. Great news for you and great encouragement for everyone else.

[Durantia37]

Happy to hear it. Bet you're gonna hear a bunch of BS over on PH about how you didn't actually have PFS or aren't actally better lol.

[Maxout777]

Thanks everyone! Keep the faith, and the work up - and you'll be there before you know it!


Happy to hear it. Bet you're gonna hear a bunch of BS over on PH about how you didn't actually have PFS or aren't actally better lol.

Lol you know it - I'm sure the pvdl's, Nopecia's, xptriado's of the world will tell me how I'm full of shit, still aren't better, didn't have PFS, or am "propped up" by lifestyle and herbs.......ah, it never gets old. I posted there for the new guys and those who are actually trying to make themselves better than they currently are, to give a ray of hope.

[CannonBalls]

Well done, Maxout!!💪🏻 You're a motivator!

[Swill]

Fucking great job man, absolutely stoked for you!

[Master Mal]

Way to go, Maxout! So stoked for you man. Now go forth, have tons of sex, and frolic in meadows like you have not a care in the world. :)

[Holistic]

Congratulations Maxout! Move on, live those wasted years!


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[PeterA]

Thanks everyone! Keep the faith, and the work up - and you'll be there before you know it!



Lol you know it - I'm sure the pvdl's, Nopecia's, xptriado's of the world will tell me how I'm full of shit, still aren't better, didn't have PFS, or am "propped up" by lifestyle and herbs.......ah, it never gets old. I posted there for the new guys and those who are actually trying to make themselves better than they currently are, to give a ray of hope.

Hey Max! Have you been drunk since you healed and how was it?

[Maxout777]

Hey Max! Have you been drunk since you healed and how was it?

I got a solid buzz, continued drinking.....woke up the next morning and my dick had rotted off and was on the floor.

Literally, my balls slowly shrank and I could give most Planters' peanuts a run for their money. Worst mistake ever.


......But no, really. Just like a normal night out before hand.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey Max! Have you been drunk since you healed and how was it?

For the love of god....