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Brazilianguy
08-14-2016, 02:20 PM
Hi guys, I won't say much about my story because it's similar to the others.

I need to make the herbs to work again. I achieved 75% recovered once so I know that I can get there. I just got worse because I changed my protocol thinking progesterone cream was the answer and I crashed hard (progesterone is a 5ari btw)

I'm feeling good mentally and energy, sometimes I wake up during the night with morning wood, my gyno is better, recently I made the mistake to eat peanuts and I crashed (just sexually) again I must be allergic because I get a really bad reaction to it. My balls and penis are cold but I know it will reverse as soon as the herbs make their action in my body

I need some tips about juice feast. Can I take the herbs during the feast? Or should I just restart the herbs when I finish the refeeding process?

I'll lift weight but not too hard because I even got fever when I over did it.

Without weed, allergic foods, alcohol I know that I don't get worse I feel stable, recently just the peanuts fucked me up. So any tips about fasting it would be great.

I just can't check solvepfs and propeciahelp anymore, people just cry and create a new theory everyday, I wouldn't be surprised if they say they were abducted by an alien and that's why they are screwed.

I'll but my progress here. I'm sure I'll beat this. Thank you guys.

Maxout777
08-15-2016, 09:55 AM
Peanuts? Man, this sounds like analysis paralysis to me, could be you just hit another downswing instead of the actual peanuts causing that....if you're really "crashing" from peanuts, you need to do a water fast for a week or a juice feast for two, and get that system cleansed out. That's an extremely unstable environment you have going there if peanuts are crashing you.

Brazilianguy
08-16-2016, 08:08 AM
Peanuts? Man, this sounds like analysis paralysis to me, could be you just hit another downswing instead of the actual peanuts causing that....if you're really "crashing" from peanuts, you need to do a water fast for a week or a juice feast for two, and get that system cleansed out. That's an extremely unstable environment you have going there if peanuts are crashing you.

Hey man, I'm happy to see you here. I'm allergic to it. But I think I had a downswing from too much masturbation in just 2 days while I had fever. When I'm hangover or fever my sex drive increase and I think this is the worst time to do anything because in the first case E is high and the second case cortisol is high. So I think I had a downswing from masturbation in a high cortisol environment.

I'm doing some exercises and I'm getting a better diet. But I'm ok physically, mentally, just sensitivity decreased a bit, sleep is good. I just need to make the herbs work again. I'm not taking vitamins to avoid any trouble with diggestion. I'm just taking vitamin d in drops. I hope after the juice feast they will work again.

Edit: I'm also happy to see people who suffer from pfs in this forum because we already know what to do and we're committed to do it and not speculating about any new strange theory. I'm totally sure that's what it needs to recover because I already achieved 75% recovered once and could live normally for 2 months, until I was stupid enough to go to another theory and apply topical 5ari in my skin (progesterone cream).

Brazilianguy
08-25-2016, 06:56 PM
I think I should not put it here but I did just 2 days of water fast and decided to take tribulus. It seems it worked a little bit because my head was clear, and my armpit started to smell, also I had more energy. The effect was very small. But one thing is strange, 2 weeks ago I tried tribulus and it did nothing, now after fasting just 2 days, it did something, very weak though (which makes me think I should try longer fasting)

Guys who tried fasting, is it normal to get tired during the day while fasting? Is it hard for you to sleep because your stomach is so empty?

About herbs: I noticed coffee makes it work better but I would like to know if you guys had any experience with maca root. I tried once from a very cheap brand and I got no results. Some friends had heart palpitations, some puke, some had heartburn. I would like to know if it helps to make your balls bigger. I had big balls from clomid in the past and had a very flat chest from tamoxifen. But I noticed that serms are like Russian roulette they can make you feel a lot better a lot faster, getting great results, but for some it will only bring anxiety. In my case they work like herbs. It's hit or miss and when they don't work they make me a lot worse (when they work they make me a lot better too) so I decided to go to the natural route since many recovered doing that.

Any advice, suggestion?

Maxout777
08-25-2016, 08:34 PM
I think I should not put it here but I did just 2 days of water fast and decided to take tribulus. It seems it worked a little bit because my head was clear, and my armpit started to smell, also I had more energy. The effect was very small. But one thing is strange, 2 weeks ago I tried tribulus and it did nothing, now after fasting just 2 days, it did something, very weak though (which makes me think I should try longer fasting)

Guys who tried fasting, is it normal to get tired during the day while fasting? Is it hard for you to sleep because your stomach is so empty?

About herbs: I noticed coffee makes it work better but I would like to know if you guys had any experience with maca root. I tried once from a very cheap brand and I got no results. Some friends had heart palpitations, some puke, some had heartburn. I would like to know if it helps to make your balls bigger. I had big balls from clomid in the past and had a very flat chest from tamoxifen. But I noticed that serms are like Russian roulette they can make you feel a lot better a lot faster, getting great results, but for some it will only bring anxiety. In my case they work like herbs. It's hit or miss and when they don't work they make me a lot worse (when they work they make me a lot better too) so I decided to go to the natural route since many recovered doing that.

Any advice, suggestion?

If you've been throwing down SERMs and other pharms to try to remedy this, yes you need to do a lengthy fast to make your system healthy enough to respond again.

Brazilianguy
10-21-2016, 05:48 PM
My body is acting really weird.

It's like a on and off button, when it's on I take herbs like tribulus and I feel the effects in 1 hour and I feel better, when it's off I don't feel anything. It feels like my hpta sometimes is receptive to Changes and I improve and stay improved, when it's not it's like taking nothing.

I'm on a good diet, I tried doing 2 days fasting once and it worked, I tried 4 days fasting and it didn't, I tried 7 days fasting (water fast) and it didn't. I tried gluten free diet and exercises and it didn't work again.

I asked for help on a website called T-Nation and they said, you need to do TRT, they completely ignored that my body sometimes (even being rare) to herbs and it seems that the only thing that they know is TRT, their pct is serms+AÍ which is not a good idea either, because the estrogen rebound would be really intense.


My latest blood test was

Total T: 280
Lh: 2
Fsh: 1.8
Prolactin: 4
Estradiol: 36 (which it seems very high according to my testosterone level)

Any suggestion guys? Sometimes I think my E being that high is preventing my results, but I must say that after this blood test I improved a bit more so I really don't know what's happening.

Brazilianguy
12-27-2016, 10:35 AM
Since the last post I'm a bit better. One thing I notice is when herbs stop working if you take a time, drink even more water, chew a lot the food, eat more citric fruits, put more aerobic than anaerobic exercises and the herbs will work again. I don't know why this happens I just believe is the estrogen rising and interfering with the feedback loop in the hpta.

I say this because when I was trying clomid, even clomid stopped working, the same happened with sustain alpha and herbs. Once you take a time, your body is able to get the benefits again and lead you to better baseline.

I have a couple questions to you guys, if you don't mind.

1 - I noticed that when I apply too much sustain alpha I get low estrogen sides: Worse sleep, panick attack, dick shrinkage, some depression and then I get a little better but with a worse baseline comparing to before applying it. So my question is, do you think it's mandatory to recovery? Because I also notice I get more androgenic effects from herbs like tribulus than with sustain alpha. The only good thing about sustain alpha is that I lose some weight (water weight probably) also gyno gets better (it also gets worse if I apply too much right after the low e sides, maybe a strong estrogen rebound leading to a higher estrogen dominance). When when I get night sweats or masturbate (I do it only when I get these night sweats just to avoid getting one more sooner than I want) I get a mini crash that last a day or two (I also think it's about blocking the estrogen or getting rebound from sustain alpha + the hormonal effect from masturbation)

2 - When I take the herbs and they work I prefer to take a lot of them in that day, for example: tribulus day, I take it in the morning and I get the benefits I will try to take like 7 pills or more spaced during the day, doing it I get even more results and I could achieved 75% once doing it, it was amazing, I felt very androgenic, lost my gyno, beard got really thick and got some more chest hair. So my question is, how do you guys do it, have you ever tried to do the same way I do? I simply do like this because some guys recovered doing this way.

3 - I was thinking about putting the herbs as a main thing to my recovery comparing to sustain alpha, but since I always respond to sustain alpha and just sometimes I respond to herbs I was thinking in doing like this: I keep with the herbs, when they stop working I take a break and then try the herbs again, if they don't work, I'll try to apply just a tiny bit of sustain alpha and don't apply it again after one month at least. I mean, I would only apply if I don't notice the herbal effect just to not waste a time a bit. But of course I would like to read your opinion guys.

Thanks, long message because I thought it was a bit hard to explain.

Brazilianguy
02-21-2017, 08:40 AM
Just wanted to update this to you guys.

I decided to change a little bit the protocol because the herbs rotation weren't working for me. I decided to take a break like a month or a month and a half and decided to use just tribulus, I took it, it worked, and I hang out with a girl. Now I will try to tell what I think its going on.

First my protocol: Low carbs (but I do eat them), a lot of vegetables, cold shower everyday, body exercises, no alcohol, no drugs, no fap, legs exercise everyday, trying to do some minor runnings here and there. I know that I should do weight exercises and hiit but its not possible right, unfortunately (not because I can't do it, just have problem with time and space to do it)

About the herbs rotation, I don't do very well with them and I think its because it is necessary to refresh our receptors, Androgen Receptor (as far as I know tribulus and tongkat acts on it, I don't know about the other herbs) and also because some herbs will increase T thus will increase E too and high E makes the herbs just taste awful and won't bring results (at least for me). I discovered this because I was taking clomid a long time ago and noticed that when my E was too high clomid wouldn't work, tribulus wouldn't work, maca, mucuna, catuaba bark, etc.

Why I think the protocol works better if we do breaks on herb cycle: I think when we do the breaks and continue with the other things our body reach new homeostasis and will be perfect clean for another round giving us more ground. During the herb rotation I would feel the herbs working for a week and then I wouldn't see much, just waste of my money. Now I'm trying to do like this I cycle with an herb like tribulus, I keep taking it until I don't feel the effects, then I take a break and the next time I will cycle a different herb and so on. I'm basically following all the protocols that I saw that brought people to their normal self completely recovered and sometimes even better than before. The guys that I'm following are: Apr1989 (I really think he and Beekay reached the everest mountain about understanding pfs) because his explanation about tribulus and pfs was incredible and I totally agree, beekay because what he said about cholesterol pathway and correcting it I totally agree too, Cdnuts because he has a really good lifestyle, no pharmacies and medication philosophy that I tried and see much more results than before and also training tips, light at the end when he explains about taking a break, hopingformore when he explained about tribulus megadose, and many others I'm just trying to give some people help and hope. This is beatable I reached 75% once if I didn't try to accelerate with hormones, medications, drugs I would be perfectly fine right now, but life is trial and error I now know whats going on and I will beat this once and for all.

Thank you for your attention guys.

Cdsnuts
02-21-2017, 02:37 PM
Since the last post I'm a bit better. One thing I notice is when herbs stop working if you take a time, drink even more water, chew a lot the food, eat more citric fruits, put more aerobic than anaerobic exercises and the herbs will work again. I don't know why this happens I just believe is the estrogen rising and interfering with the feedback loop in the hpta.
It sounds like you may be straying from the outlined protocol a little bit. Are you doing HIIT twice a week? Have you tried taking Pine pollen everyday while continuing on the outlined rotation protocol?

I say this because when I was trying clomid, even clomid stopped working, the same happened with sustain alpha and herbs. Once you take a time, your body is able to get the benefits again and lead you to better baseline.
Stop messing with pharma AI's. They are known to send your levels all over the place and are not doing you any favors. Sustain alpha absoultely CRUSHES estrogen. Stick to the herbs as they are way more gentler on your system and will give you better results.

I have a couple questions to you guys, if you don't mind.

1 - I noticed that when I apply too much sustain alpha I get low estrogen sides: Worse sleep, panick attack, dick shrinkage, some depression and then I get a little better but with a worse baseline comparing to before applying it. So my question is, do you think it's mandatory to recovery? Because I also notice I get more androgenic effects from herbs like tribulus than with sustain alpha. The only good thing about sustain alpha is that I lose some weight (water weight probably) also gyno gets better (it also gets worse if I apply too much right after the low e sides, maybe a strong estrogen rebound leading to a higher estrogen dominance). When when I get night sweats or masturbate (I do it only when I get these night sweats just to avoid getting one more sooner than I want) I get a mini crash that last a day or two (I also think it's about blocking the estrogen or getting rebound from sustain alpha + the hormonal effect from masturbation)
Stop the sustain. Use pine pollen instead. Pine pollen is unbelievable for controlling excess estrogen, so is He Shou wu and shilijat

2 - When I take the herbs and they work I prefer to take a lot of them in that day, for example: tribulus day, I take it in the morning and I get the benefits I will try to take like 7 pills or more spaced during the day, doing it I get even more results and I could achieved 75% once doing it, it was amazing, I felt very androgenic, lost my gyno, beard got really thick and got some more chest hair. So my question is, how do you guys do it, have you ever tried to do the same way I do? I simply do like this because some guys recovered doing this way.
You need to rotate the herbs as outlined. You can take a high dose of one particular herb during the day of that herb.....the next day, MOVE ON to the next one.

3 - I was thinking about putting the herbs as a main thing to my recovery comparing to sustain alpha, but since I always respond to sustain alpha and just sometimes I respond to herbs I was thinking in doing like this: I keep with the herbs, when they stop working I take a break and then try the herbs again, if they don't work, I'll try to apply just a tiny bit of sustain alpha and don't apply it again after one month at least. I mean, I would only apply if I don't notice the herbal effect just to not waste a time a bit. But of course I would like to read your opinion guys.
Rotate the herbs as outlined and you won't have this problem.....ditch the sustain.

Thanks, long message because I thought it was a bit hard to explain.

Do you understand this? Not saying this condescendingly, just making sure that it's getting past the language barrier.

Brazilianguy
02-23-2017, 07:27 AM
Do you understand this? Not saying this condescendingly, just making sure that it's getting past the language barrier.

Yes I understand Cd. I basically answered your post on the post above yours. I'm not taking pharma since November I guess, sustain alpha I stopped in January 1 because it was doing the same thing clomid was doing to me.

I'm not taking pine pollen or shilajit because I'm very afraid of blocking my E, I guess I'm over sensitive to estrogen blocking.

I'm doing body exercises because I like calisthenics since you recommended this kind of exercises to me because I was getting problems in gym (like almost over training).

I was rotating these herbs: tribulus, maca, mucuna, catuaba, ginkgo biloba, marapuama and maybe some others that I can't remember. I didn't see a difference between herb cycling and taking one herb for a week, take a long break and then take another herb, take a long break etc, in fact I noticed the second option is working better for me.

Cd, I have basically two questions, one about cold shower and the other about nofap.

Do you take the cold shower immediately or you tapper the temperature? I'm trying the first option but I can't handle then I increase the temperature so I can decrease slowly.

I'm doing the nofap but I'm getting too much wet dreams, this week for example I had two, yesterday and today and I don't know if it can interfere with the recovery, my progress and the protocol.

Cdsnuts
02-23-2017, 07:39 AM
Yes I understand Cd. I basically answered your post on the post above yours. I'm not taking pharma since November I guess, sustain alpha I stopped in January 1 because it was doing the same thing clomid was doing to me.

I'm not taking pine pollen or shilajit because I'm very afraid of blocking my E, I guess I'm over sensitive to estrogen blocking.

I'm doing body exercises because I like calisthenics since you recommended this kind of exercises to me because I was getting problems in gym (like almost over training).

I was rotating these herbs: tribulus, maca, mucuna, catuaba, ginkgo biloba, marapuama and maybe some others that I can't remember. I didn't see a difference between herb cycling and taking one herb for a week, take a long break and then take another herb, take a long break etc, in fact I noticed the second option is working better for me.

Cd, I have basically two questions, one about cold shower and the other about nofap.

Do you take the cold shower immediately or you tapper the temperature? I'm trying the first option but I can't handle then I increase the temperature so I can decrease slowly.

I'm doing the nofap but I'm getting too much wet dreams, this week for example I had two, yesterday and today and I don't know if it can interfere with the recovery, my progress and the protocol.

Read this for cold showers: Cold Water Therapy Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/cold-water-therapy/)

Not masturbating and having wet dreams is not going to damage your recovery at all. The only thing it's going to do is increase the amount of underwear you go through.

Brazilianguy
03-08-2017, 09:22 AM
Hey guys, I have some updates.

I was taking tribulus and got great results, the bad thing is that I was feeling so good that I decided to go to a lot of parties and since I have some libido now I'm trying to hang out with a lot of girls and I did drink alcohol (which set me back a bit, but it's strange since I'm a little bit better, alcohol is not killing me like before, but it's definately hurting and I will stop again, I just did it because I was hanging out with the girls)


Now the good: I went back to Brazil to enjoy the carnaval (if you do know what carnaval is, it's basically a huge street party for 1 or two weeks that people can get well lol) so I'm hanging out with two girls, I'm still have two more that I'm thinking about to hang out and I stayed with some girls during the carnaval. My dick reacted quite well I would say libido could give me 60-70% erections.

Now about my improvements: Orgasm, erection, sleep, energy, brain fog, emotions, muscle, gyno, strength everything improved. When I lift weight I noticed more pump. I'm looking more masculine and healthy than before which is good because my gyno was embarrassing me but now it's pretty good, I still need improvements in this area and I know I will have.

My improvements decreased by 30-40% because of the alcohol but it still quite good. When I take more I'll write it here.

Cdsnuts
03-08-2017, 09:38 AM
Hey guys, I have some updates.

I was taking tribulus and got great results, the bad thing is that I was feeling so good that I decided to go to a lot of parties and since I have some libido now I'm trying to hang out with a lot of girls and I did drink alcohol (which set me back a bit, but it's strange since I'm a little bit better, alcohol is not killing me like before, but it's definately hurting and I will stop again, I just did it because I was hanging out with the girls)


Now the good: I went back to Brazil to enjoy the carnaval (if you do know what carnaval is, it's basically a huge street party for 1 or two weeks that people can get well lol) so I'm hanging out with two girls, I'm still have two more that I'm thinking about to hang out and I stayed with some girls during the carnaval. My dick reacted quite well I would say libido could give me 60-70% erections.

Now about my improvements: Orgasm, erection, sleep, energy, brain fog, emotions, muscle, gyno, strength everything improved. When I lift weight I noticed more pump. I'm looking more masculine and healthy than before which is good because my gyno was embarrassing me but now it's pretty good, I still need improvements in this area and I know I will have.

My improvements decreased by 30-40% because of the alcohol but it still quite good. When I take more I'll write it here.
You're on your way and you will get there quicker if you can skip the alcohol, but you know that. Congratulations on your improvements thus far, I know you've been working on it for awhile.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Snell1234
03-08-2017, 10:28 PM
Read this for cold showers: Cold Water Therapy Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/cold-water-therapy/)

Not masturbating and having wet dreams is not going to damage your recovery at all. The only thing it's going to do is increase the amount of underwear you go through.

Do you remember when you were recovering what your longest streak was both without masturbating and without masturbation and sex?

Did wet dreams happen at all for you during these periods?

Cdsnuts
03-08-2017, 10:32 PM
Do you remember when you were recovering what your longest streak was both without masturbating and without masturbation and sex?

Did wet dreams happen at all for you during these periods?
Months and months on end. But then again I didn't have the desire to masturbate or have sex so it wasn't a problem.

In regards to wet dreams, during this time, yes I had them all the time. It has to come out sometime.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Brazilianguy
03-13-2017, 08:07 AM
You're on your way and you will get there quicker if you can skip the alcohol, but you know that. Congratulations on your improvements thus far, I know you've been working on it for awhile.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Yeah I was a bit stupid, but it was necessary carnaval was like 2 weeks street party with thousands of hot girls, I needed to test myself if I could hangout with some girls.

The best thing so far is my gyno that is greatly reduced, it was very embarrassing. Muscle mass and strength is also good, penis size, sleep, brain fog. I think everytime we get better all the symptoms will improve but according to light at the end these are the first symptoms to disappear:

Brain fog, personality, anhedonia, sleep, strenght, muscle mass, morning wood, body hair, libido, penile sensitivity.

When I reached 75% in the past I had good libido, just needed a little bit more and some penile sensitivity which I would get there if I wasn't trying things like progesterone and taking accidentally some 5ari herbs.

If I could say some things that help me and it may help other guys too I would say:

Drink a lot of water (specially cold water, not that much cold or you will have problems with your throat) it helps me with everything even sleep. I also think it improves digestive system (it's pretty common sense but why not?).

Do exercises before the cold shower (it will also be good for your muscles) you will handle the cold shower better (also take deep breaths during the cold shower, I think it helps with the duration of time being there)

Do 1 day water fast before the special herb day (when I say special herb day I would say like this, you will hangout with a chick and you need to be at your best, so take a break from the herbs and then do the fast let's say Friday, Saturday morning you take the herb with empty stomach and you will just eat during lunch, then you can eat normally, the next day you will be ready to go lol)

Last tip I think helped me too is after taking the herb, wait 30 minutes and then do some jogging for 15-30 minutes with some sprints in between. I don't know if it will help but I did it last time I had a huge improvement, maybe since your heart beat is faster it will make the absortion better (I really don't know if it helps but I always try to do it).

Brazilianguy
05-01-2017, 06:42 AM
Hey guys, here's a little update

I'm not logging here much or in other forums because I've been too busy recently. Not reading much regarding pfs because I'm getting better (thanks God) and I know that what I'm doing will get me back to what I was, actually I'm noticing my old self a lot of times, more related to personality even my friends are saying that I'm cooler now.

I took the herbs last week and it didn't change much regarding libido, sleep, sensitivity but I noticed my chest is more flat now, almost normal (I know it can be something people don't care much but for those who had almost a female breast, this is good news and I hope will help someone else) and my belly also is more flat (which I think it's pure estrogen areas and it's a good sign it's decreasing) also my dick is not shrinked anymore, I regained my normal size which is also good (maybe I still need a little bit)

I have two questions to ask

1- what happened to supermanherbs? Some pfs guys ask me where to buy herbs and I said usually people from SS was buying herbs there but now I don't see people talking about it anymore, just about Lost Empire.

2- I was hanging out with a girl and when we kissed I noticed my dick reaction really good to the stimulation, I mean, to the kiss, like it was getting hard almost normally, but that when I was on the effect of tribulus couple months ago, now I kissed a girl couple days back and I didn't notice much reaction, it was there but not so hard, do you guys think it can be improved too? I know it's a stupid question and probably the answer is yes, but just to make sure you know.

K8668B
05-01-2017, 08:21 AM
I think supermanherbs IS lost empire herbs. Same company, but just switched names. I'm pretty sure of it. And same has happened to me in sexual situations. Even with PFS, there have been times where my response has been quite high, and then on another occasion, i will be in the same exact scenario, and ill have alot less reaction, or zero reaction.

What else have you been doing lately as far as the protocol goes?

Brazilianguy
05-04-2017, 09:07 AM
I think supermanherbs IS lost empire herbs. Same company, but just switched names. I'm pretty sure of it. And same has happened to me in sexual situations. Even with PFS, there have been times where my response has been quite high, and then on another occasion, i will be in the same exact scenario, and ill have alot less reaction, or zero reaction.

What else have you been doing lately as far as the protocol goes?

I'm doing well, hanging out with some girls, but I respect my body, I mean, if I feel that I can hang out with a girl I do it, I usually do it when on herbs or right after a cycle. My baseline is pretty good right now I would say 30-35% which means, libido here and there, penis normal size, good erections when masturbating (I am avoiding it but I do after a cycle or I do it just once to get my body ready to produce more hormones in a week and then I take the herbs) and my orgasm is way better and my sperm is getting out with more pressure which is also a good sign.
I do calisthenics exercises because I like it more and because it seems more natural. I try to eat more chicken instead of read meat during the week I will cycle because it's easier to digest, I chew a lot my food etc.

I'm noticing I'm getting leaner and my gyno is way better which is awesome because I hated my gyno and I couldn't use some T-shirts, now I can. It seems the estrogen is leaving my body and making me stronger to do things and to not get some sides, I feel that it will be the same with alcohol, I mean, my body will get strong enough to drink it and not get worse. I think alcohol is bad for us because it increase estrogen and we're estrogen dominant right now, once we're no longer estrogen dominant the alcohol will increase but it won't be that much that will combat our androgens.

K8668B
05-04-2017, 09:51 AM
Well that sounds good. At least you're moving up, instead of going down. When you say "cycle", are you referring to a prohormone cycle? And have you cleansed? You've been fighting this for awhile bro! I want to see you prevail. Would you ever consider a 14 day juice cleanse ?

K8668B
05-04-2017, 10:23 AM
One thing that works for me, and I don't care what anyone else says, is the fact that you gotta "eat/sleep/breathe" conquering this.

Brazilianguy
05-05-2017, 08:29 AM
Well that sounds good. At least you're moving up, instead of going down. When you say "cycle", are you referring to a prohormone cycle? And have you cleansed? You've been fighting this for awhile bro! I want to see you prevail. Would you ever consider a 14 day juice cleanse ?

Yeah I did a water fast for 7-10 days a couple of times. No, I wanted to say herbal cycle.
I've been fighting this for a long time because I wanted shortcuts like SERMS and sometimes they were working but they increased my E a lot so it was like two steps ahead three steps behind, the opposite way that it should be, like it is with the herbs. The good thing is that this is my best moment since my 75% recovery that lasted for two months (it would've lasted much more if I didn't abuse drugs, specially weed that it's the worst for me (in my body at least, I don't know about others) and also progesterone cream and Panax ginseng that acted the same way saw palmetto reacted to my body).

I'm confident I will conquer this, I'm doing the right thing this time and I see my body getting transformed back to what I was, I see my behavior changing like it was before pfs, I see my muscle mass conquering space and fighting the estrogenic fat, I see my chest getting more flat, I see my pheromones acting more because now the girls are looking to me more and they want to hangout with me more than before, so everything shows me that I'm on the right path.

Hope you're better bro!

Cdsnuts
05-05-2017, 01:50 PM
Yeah I did a water fast for 7-10 days a couple of times. No, I wanted to say herbal cycle.
I've been fighting this for a long time because I wanted shortcuts like SERMS and sometimes they were working but they increased my E a lot so it was like two steps ahead three steps behind, the opposite way that it should be, like it is with the herbs. The good thing is that this is my best moment since my 75% recovery that lasted for two months (it would've lasted much more if I didn't abuse drugs, specially weed that it's the worst for me (in my body at least, I don't know about others) and also progesterone cream and Panax ginseng that acted the same way saw palmetto reacted to my body).

I'm confident I will conquer this, I'm doing the right thing this time and I see my body getting transformed back to what I was, I see my behavior changing like it was before pfs, I see my muscle mass conquering space and fighting the estrogenic fat, I see my chest getting more flat, I see my pheromones acting more because now the girls are looking to me more and they want to hangout with me more than before, so everything shows me that I'm on the right path.

Hope you're better bro!

Good for you that you're on the right path.

When you say you've done several water fasts of 7-10 days. You took in nothing but water, correct?

K8668B
05-05-2017, 01:52 PM
Yeah I did a water fast for 7-10 days a couple of times. No, I wanted to say herbal cycle.
I've been fighting this for a long time because I wanted shortcuts like SERMS and sometimes they were working but they increased my E a lot so it was like two steps ahead three steps behind, the opposite way that it should be, like it is with the herbs. The good thing is that this is my best moment since my 75% recovery that lasted for two months (it would've lasted much more if I didn't abuse drugs, specially weed that it's the worst for me (in my body at least, I don't know about others) and also progesterone cream and Panax ginseng that acted the same way saw palmetto reacted to my body).

I'm confident I will conquer this, I'm doing the right thing this time and I see my body getting transformed back to what I was, I see my behavior changing like it was before pfs, I see my muscle mass conquering space and fighting the estrogenic fat, I see my chest getting more flat, I see my pheromones acting more because now the girls are looking to me more and they want to hangout with me more than before, so everything shows me that I'm on the right path.

Hope you're better bro!

That's awesome to hear! It's looking like you're finally getting there. One thing you really have to do is eliminate weed and alcohol from your life until you are 100%. i dont care if everyone else around you is doing it either. Weed has always been extremely bad for me too, since having pfs. It just kills me! I always got extreme paranoia and anxiety whenever i smoked, and it would usually lower my libido too. Guys like us, i believe, (in my opinion at least), get these bad effects from smoking weed due to our reduced 5AR levels and adrenals from propecia use. Whereas "normal guys" seem to feel good when they're high off of weed. I wont drink or smoke ever again until i am 100%. Also, forget the SERMS, SARMS, or any other types of things like that. Steroids, etc. I know you're not using those things anymore though. (i know this was awhile ago when you did this) The only thing you should consider if going in that direction is a DHT based prohormone.

Keep it up!

Brazilianguy
05-06-2017, 06:23 AM
Good for you that you're on the right path.

When you say you've done several water fasts of 7-10 days. You took in nothing but water, correct?

Yes, just water and then 3 days with just vegetables and then slowly introducing meat and carbs.

No more weed for me, I don't drink alcohol either, I'll leave that until I recover, but I do miss it (I'm not addicted but I do like to drink some beers with my friends/girls) I also believe that the adrenals are responsible for this, I have a friend who has pfs and he can drink alcohol normally, but his only problem is a bit lower libido and penile sensitivity so his pfs is very mild and he can drink alcohol that in the next day he is ok.

No prohormone for me. I'm just cycling herbs, doing 36 hours of water fast before taking the herb also helps me.

K8668B
05-06-2017, 03:02 PM
Good bro. Please, no alcohol or weed. Dude this protocol has given me my life back. I'm nowhere near healed and I'm already feeling great. Its given me some much needed discipline. And because of the no drinking and weed, its keeping me out of trouble and away from the wrong crowd. And allowing me to make great gains in the gym and also recover my sex drive that propecia took away. Think about these things if you're ever tempted to drink or smoke. Just had to ramble a little bit..... But that's how I feel.

Brazilianguy
05-25-2017, 07:12 AM
Hey guys what's up

I'm doing well, but I would like to ask something. Do you guys feel that coffee/tea makes your worse? Because in my case, any kind of stimulant makes me feel worse, sometimes way worse. Alcohol, coffee, tea, which is hard because I really like all three, I already stopped alcohol but now I think I should coffee and tea too.

I think all three will act on estrogen or cortisol (thus estrogen too).
I was feeling like 30-35% recovered, hanging out with girls, starting to enjoy my life again, doing some exercises and feeling pumped, energy through the day and night etc, penis normal size, almost waking up with morning wood everyday (I was waking up with wood once a week), waking up refreshed and ready to go.

Right now I'm waking up a bit tired, lost some muscle and penis is a bit shrunk (not that bad, it's really a little bit and just when I wake up) gyno increased a little tiny bit too (almost unnoticeable), still have energy through the day but I'm avoiding hanging out with girls now because I'm not that confident anymore. I would say now I'm 25-30%.

One more thing. I also noticed that I can't masturbate/have sex/or even ejaculate when I sleep when I'm still 2 weeks after the herbs. I mean, masturbate is the worse, sex is so so and nocturnal ejaculation is almost ok, if one of the three happens during these 2 weeks I get worse. Is it because my body is in a state that testosterone and estrogen are high and then when I ejaculate, prolactin will increase and will put more fire on estrogen and this will decrease my T level a little bit? I feel that when my ratio T:E is better I can handle everything much better, I mean orgasm is not as bad as coffee that is not as bad as alcohol, so maybe what I need is a better ratio so I can have more sex and then a better ratio so I can drink coffee again and then a better ratio so I can drink alcohol again (I mean this last one will be when my ratio becomes normal again)

Sorry for the long message.

Cdsnuts
05-25-2017, 07:26 AM
I've always said that if you can't handle stimulants you shouldn't take them until your adrenals have healed up a bit.

I also want to point out that you have been at this for quite some time and it doesn't seem like you're making that much progress? To me that means you're not sticking to the program 100% or that you're doing something incorrectly because you should be more than 30 to 35% recovered at this point.

Don't take that the wrong way as it's just constructive criticism.

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Brazilianguy
05-25-2017, 09:16 AM
I've always said that if you can't handle stimulants you shouldn't take them until your adrenals have healed up a bit.

I also want to point out that you have been at this for quite some time and it doesn't seem like you're making that much progress? To me that means you're not sticking to the program 100% or that you're doing something incorrectly because you should be more than 30 to 35% recovered at this point.

Don't take that the wrong way as it's just constructive criticism.

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Yeah I thought I was able because I was feeling really good, I still don't know when my adrenals will be healed enough to handle coffee.

You're right Cd. I was working/traveling a lot these last few months so I wasn't that much diligent with diet, and I needed to stay up all night so I was drinking a lot of coffee. But I am making a lot of progress my pfs was very severe and I also took serms last year because they were making me think I was recovering (huge up, huge down and a very bad baseline, that's what I was noticing but I was doing tests taking low doses etc, but it was a long time ago I don't touch them for a very long time)

I mean. I would say 40-50% would be waking up with morning wood everyday, I was waking up once or twice a week, was able to have sex, so I wasn't as bad as I may said.

I quit coffee and tea for now too, do you have any tip to know when my body will be able to drink it again? I mean, is there a sign that I can notice? My work is ok right now so I won't be traveling and staying up late at night anymore.

I don't take it the wrong way. I'm the kind of person that likes constructive criticism lol.

Cdsnuts
05-25-2017, 09:28 AM
Yeah I thought I was able because I was feeling really good, I still don't know when my adrenals will be healed enough to handle coffee.

You're right Cd. I was working/traveling a lot these last few months so I wasn't that much diligent with diet, and I needed to stay up all night so I was drinking a lot of coffee. But I am making a lot of progress my pfs was very severe and I also took serms last year because they were making me think I was recovering (huge up, huge down and a very bad baseline, that's what I was noticing but I was doing tests taking low doses etc, but it was a long time ago I don't touch them for a very long time)

I mean. I would say 40-50% would be waking up with morning wood everyday, I was waking up once or twice a week, was able to have sex, so I wasn't as bad as I may said.

I quit coffee and tea for now too, do you have any tip to know when my body will be able to drink it again? I mean, is there a sign that I can notice? My work is ok right now so I won't be traveling and staying up late at night anymore.

I don't take it the wrong way. I'm the kind of person that likes constructive criticism lol.
There really isn't any outward sign that I've noticed. You just have to try it every once in awhile and see how you respond and even then when you can tolerate it don't overdo it.

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coppersocks
05-25-2017, 12:34 PM
Personally I find coffee fine now after I introduced it in small amounts. One thing I will say is try to have it with lots of milk and along side a glass of fruit juice or a teaspoon of honey. The sugar in these will prevent your stress hormones from shooting up somewhat. If I have an Americano by itself then I get very jittery, if I have it with some kind of sugar then I get the nice energetic and dopaministic effects. Just a thought.

Snell1234
05-25-2017, 08:06 PM
I've always said that if you can't handle stimulants you shouldn't take them until your adrenals have healed up a bit.

I also want to point out that you have been at this for quite some time and it doesn't seem like you're making that much progress? To me that means you're not sticking to the program 100% or that you're doing something incorrectly because you should be more than 30 to 35% recovered at this point.

Don't take that the wrong way as it's just constructive criticism.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Is there anything specifically in the program that is focused on the adrenals, or is it a matter of everything with time being the answer to healing the adrenals? I think this is my major issue now. I feel once my adrenals come around, I have reduced inflammation in my body so much that I will be fully healed.

Durantia37
05-25-2017, 09:53 PM
Are you doing that well Snell? Glad to hear it.

Snell1234
05-25-2017, 09:57 PM
Are you doing that well Snell? Glad to hear it.

I have days where I feel really, really good. Like that part of the condition has been done with. But I think due to my adrenals, I can fall back into a not so great state. It's hard to explain. It's almost like pfs is nearly gone yet my adrenals cause me to feel shocking when I do something to aggravate them. Like I had a flu last week - that hasn't happened at all since the pfs stuff, which I see as a positive funnily enough.

Cdsnuts
05-26-2017, 06:21 AM
You all just need to keep doing what you've been doing to make your progress and things will eventually sort themselves out.

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Durantia37
05-26-2017, 06:28 AM
That's really good to hear. Congrats man. I would assume that time will fix that as well, but obviously I'm no expert. And yeah, I get what you mean, I saw it as a positive sign when I started being able to get depressed again, lol.

Cdsnuts
05-26-2017, 08:11 AM
That's really good to hear. Congrats man. I would assume that time will fix that as well, but obviously I'm no expert. And yeah, I get what you mean, I saw it as a positive sign when I started being able to get depressed again, lol.

Exactly. Having feelings again, whether good or bad, is a good sign. You have to remember, you're going to have good feelings and bad feelings but it is progress to have feelings AT ALL.

Brazilianguy
10-31-2017, 02:06 AM
Hey guys, how are you doing?

I'm doing fine, my sleep is good, energy is good, some libido etc.

I would like to ask you if you get wet dreams and if so, how you can avoid it. I'm asking because in 10 days I had like 5 times and I don't like it because I feel it was making me a bit worse (nothing compared to masturbations itself but a bit worse in the beginning now, not that much but still I don't like it because I was in the middle of the night and I don't get a restful sleep).

I feel that tribulus makes me less bloated which means I'm reducing water weight and seems that estrogen is decreasing while androgens are increasing.

I think the up and down movement that I get it's from the wet dreams because I feel slightly worse when I have it. Now I think I reached a point that I don't get worse from it but I'm pretty sure that when I cycle my herbs this week and then get a wet dream I'll get a bit worse (I mean, up, down and better baseline in the end)

So, any way to prevent it? Are you guys getting wet dreams too?

jacknap
10-31-2017, 10:10 AM
by wet dream you mean you ejaculate during your sleep? I've only ever had that happen once in my life after this girl Janine cock tossed me for like 3 hours straight. Kinda jelly that I don't get them that often. I do have lotsa sexual dreams though. Do you have a lot of sex? I think if you have enough sex you won't get wet dreams.

The reason why u might be feeling shit is because when we ejaculate we lose mineral like zinc etc. So maybe if u make your diet more robust in minerals that will go away? Eg) Oyster, Mussels, Shilajit

Cdsnuts
10-31-2017, 10:31 AM
by wet dream you mean you ejaculate during your sleep? I've only ever had that happen once in my life after this girl Janine cock tossed me for like 3 hours straight. Kinda jelly that I don't get them that often. I do have lotsa sexual dreams though. Do you have a lot of sex? I think if you have enough sex you won't get wet dreams.

The reason why u might be feeling shit is because when we ejaculate we lose mineral like zinc etc. So maybe if u make your diet more robust in minerals that will go away? Eg) Oyster, Mussels, ShilajitYou've never heard the term wet dream?

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jacknap
10-31-2017, 10:45 AM
You've never heard the term wet dream?

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I have but some people just use it to mean a sexual dream rather than a nocturnal emission. So I wanted to clarify lol.

Cdsnuts
10-31-2017, 10:50 AM
I have but some people just use it to mean a sexual dream rather than a nocturnal emission. So I wanted to clarify lol.I believe nocturnal emissions and wet dreams are all precipitated by sexual dreams. That's typically why it ends up in an ejaculation. If I go a week or two without sex I can still have them. I don't usually masturbate so the body needs to get rid of it somehow.

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msab1990
10-31-2017, 07:58 PM
Crazy that I probably hadn't had a single wet dream in the 3-4 years preceding PFS and now I've had about 6-7 in the last three weeks since doing no fap.

Cd - in your opinion, is the process of a wet dream setting us back a bit? I seem to wake up feeling a bit lethargic compared to other mornings when I've had them recently, and starting to get a bit worried. I reeeeaaaally need to find someone to share this new found libido with lol

Cdsnuts
10-31-2017, 08:04 PM
Crazy that I probably hadn't had a single wet dream in the 3-4 years preceding PFS and now I've had about 6-7 in the last three weeks since doing no fap.

Cd - in your opinion, is the process of a wet dream setting us back a bit? I seem to wake up feeling a bit lethargic compared to other mornings when I've had them recently, and starting to get a bit worried. I reeeeaaaally need to find someone to share this new found libido with lolNo. No need to worry at all

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bizzbee
10-31-2017, 08:14 PM
You really ought to start charging by the minute.


No. No need to worry at all

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Cdsnuts
11-08-2017, 09:56 PM
You really ought to start charging by the minute.

I should. Then I'd at least get paid for people not to listen....lol.

Brazilianguy
02-14-2018, 07:15 AM
Hey guys, need to share some good and bad news.

Let’s start with the good first. I am way better, waking up feeling good, no problem sleeping, good energy through the day, hanging out with some girls here and there when my libido is up.

Now the bad. I noticed my body was getting more resistant regarding stress, strength, etc. So one day I did the mistake of drinking a little bit of alcohol just to see if I could handle, and glad I did, but recently I travelled to Brazil because it’s carnaval time (if you don’t know what it is, it’s the biggest street party in the world) and it’s impossible to stay sober and don’t hang out with the girls. So long story short I drank a lot and my gynecomastia is bad right now (but I will recover from it, I was better in this department so it’s just embarrassing for now).

I decided to workout harder but I noticed everytime I start training harder I wake up with wet dreams and today it was really strange because I woke up 3 times in one night. So I wanted to ask if you guys noticed something similar, because everytime I lift heavier weight I get it and I’m always afraid about getting a bit worse from it (I usually get a little tiny bit worse when I get wet dreams, but now I’m better so I don’t know if I will get a bit worse or not).

I know I already talked about this topic the last time, I just want to see if someone noticed the same thing.

Now I will take a break from the herbs because everytime I do it they work way better later.

Also, I’m thinking if when we recover a bit our body get more resistant to everything because in the past I would feel awful but now is just my gynecomastia that got worse (it’s embarrasing but the other symptoms And improvements stay intact).

Maxout777
02-14-2018, 09:49 AM
Hey guys, need to share some good and bad news.

Let’s start with the good first. I am way better, waking up feeling good, no problem sleeping, good energy through the day, hanging out with some girls here and there when my libido is up.

Now the bad. I noticed my body was getting more resistant regarding stress, strength, etc. So one day I did the mistake of drinking a little bit of alcohol just to see if I could handle, and glad I did, but recently I travelled to Brazil because it’s carnaval time (if you don’t know what it is, it’s the biggest street party in the world) and it’s impossible to stay sober and don’t hang out with the girls. So long story short I drank a lot and my gynecomastia is bad right now (but I will recover from it, I was better in this department so it’s just embarrassing for now).

I decided to workout harder but I noticed everytime I start training harder I wake up with wet dreams and today it was really strange because I woke up 3 times in one night. So I wanted to ask if you guys noticed something similar, because everytime I lift heavier weight I get it and I’m always afraid about getting a bit worse from it (I usually get a little tiny bit worse when I get wet dreams, but now I’m better so I don’t know if I will get a bit worse or not).

I know I already talked about this topic the last time, I just want to see if someone noticed the same thing.

Now I will take a break from the herbs because everytime I do it they work way better later.

Also, I’m thinking if when we recover a bit our body get more resistant to everything because in the past I would feel awful but now is just my gynecomastia that got worse (it’s embarrasing but the other symptoms And improvements stay intact).

Just so you know, the closer you get to the finish line, the more your body can handle alcohol. I drank a few times prior to considering myself "100%" (but very close, near the end of my journey) and noticed little to no ill effects at all other than the usual shit that comes with a hangover. But I was really close to being recovered at that point. You'll get there, then the fun times can come back.

Fausto Soares
02-14-2018, 01:34 PM
Hey guys, need to share some good and bad news.

Let’s start with the good first. I am way better, waking up feeling good, no problem sleeping, good energy through the day, hanging out with some girls here and there when my libido is up.

Now the bad. I noticed my body was getting more resistant regarding stress, strength, etc. So one day I did the mistake of drinking a little bit of alcohol just to see if I could handle, and glad I did, but recently I travelled to Brazil because it’s carnaval time (if you don’t know what it is, it’s the biggest street party in the world) and it’s impossible to stay sober and don’t hang out with the girls. So long story short I drank a lot and my gynecomastia is bad right now (but I will recover from it, I was better in this department so it’s just embarrassing for now).

I decided to workout harder but I noticed everytime I start training harder I wake up with wet dreams and today it was really strange because I woke up 3 times in one night. So I wanted to ask if you guys noticed something similar, because everytime I lift heavier weight I get it and I’m always afraid about getting a bit worse from it (I usually get a little tiny bit worse when I get wet dreams, but now I’m better so I don’t know if I will get a bit worse or not).

I know I already talked about this topic the last time, I just want to see if someone noticed the same thing.

Now I will take a break from the herbs because everytime I do it they work way better later.

Also, I’m thinking if when we recover a bit our body get more resistant to everything because in the past I would feel awful but now is just my gynecomastia that got worse (it’s embarrasing but the other symptoms And improvements stay intact).

Hey Brazilanguy, good luck on your recovery jouney, someone from my country here :)

For 2 consecutive days i had erotic dreams and two days ahead again i had erotic dream, it never happened before, the androgens are doing its role! My pelvic area is vibrating as never ever did!!

Fausto Soares
02-14-2018, 01:36 PM
Just so you know, the closer you get to the finish line, the more your body can handle alcohol. I drank a few times prior to considering myself "100%" (but very close, near the end of my journey) and noticed little to no ill effects at all other than the usual shit that comes with a hangover. But I was really close to being recovered at that point. You'll get there, then the fun times can come back.

Bro, how long it took for you to notice some improvement on erection?

Today you feel "on" sexually everyday?

Maxout777
02-14-2018, 01:49 PM
Erection was ok after six months or so down the line. Wasn't perfect but was getting better. The libido is the most annoying thing to come back. Once libido came back full steam, any erection problems were taken care of. Without libido it's hard for anyone to have good erections, IMO.

And yes, I feel fine everyday in all aspects from PFS. The only issues I'm having now are all issues I had prior to PFS, and are related to PTSD and emotional issues.

Fausto Soares
02-14-2018, 01:57 PM
Erection was ok after six months or so down the line. Wasn't perfect but was getting better. The libido is the most annoying thing to come back. Once libido came back full steam, any erection problems were taken care of. Without libido it's hard for anyone to have good erections, IMO.

And yes, I feel fine everyday in all aspects from PFS. The only issues I'm having now are all issues I had prior to PFS, and are related to PTSD and emotional issues.

Great!

In my case i think around 1.5 year or 2 years will be need for the erection.

Cdsnuts
02-14-2018, 06:06 PM
Erection was ok after six months or so down the line. Wasn't perfect but was getting better. The libido is the most annoying thing to come back. Once libido came back full steam, any erection problems were taken care of. Without libido it's hard for anyone to have good erections, IMO.

And yes, I feel fine everyday in all aspects from PFS. The only issues I'm having now are all issues I had prior to PFS, and are related to PTSD and emotional issues.

You stuck to your guns and hammered it out man. That's the way it NEEDS to be done. Just can't stress that enough to the new guys.

Going a little off topic here, and if you don't want to go down this rabbit hole, by all means, tell me to fuck off, but do you think that by continuing to do the neurological aspects of the protocol such as the meditation and breathing exercises along with cold showers and brain supplements, you can make some headway with the PTSD?

Damn
02-14-2018, 08:38 PM
You stuck to your guns and hammered it out man. That's the way it NEEDS to be done. Just can't stress that enough to the new guys.

Going a little off topic here, and if you don't want to go down this rabbit hole, by all means, tell me to fuck off, but do you think that by continuing to do the neurological aspects of the protocol such as the meditation and breathing exercises along with cold showers and brain supplements, you can make some headway with the PTSD?

Have a look see at the thread I just posted re: meditation. I truly believe it is one of the keys to healing not only PFS, but any other stress related disease/disorder (which most are).

Maxout777
02-14-2018, 09:54 PM
You stuck to your guns and hammered it out man. That's the way it NEEDS to be done. Just can't stress that enough to the new guys.

Going a little off topic here, and if you don't want to go down this rabbit hole, by all means, tell me to fuck off, but do you think that by continuing to do the neurological aspects of the protocol such as the meditation and breathing exercises along with cold showers and brain supplements, you can make some headway with the PTSD?

It definitely helps - I just have a lot of issues regarding connecting with people emotionally. Nothing seems to make me as happy or sad I should be (by society's standards). I don't feel love - I mean, for example, I love my wife, but I feel like a lot of the time she can't tell that I do. She knows what I'm dealing with so she does her best to not let it bother her, but I'm sure it does.

Don't get me wrong, the meditation/herb mental side of the protocol definitely helped and continues to help in the areas regarding anxiety, panic episodes, etc. I'm not sure if it will ever help with the emotional disconnect issue, but if it did I would be ecstatic. Prior to PFS, I tried to drown this part of my life out with alcohol. For whatever reason, I can connect with my emotions still when I'm drunk - but when I'm sober it's like something is broken, or something just is empty.

This all makes it sound depressing as hell, but I'm actually pretty pleased with my life and how things are going currently. Basically, if the whole emotional disconnect is all I have to deal with for the rest of my life, especially knowing what some of the guys I served with deal with, and what I've been through in the last few years - I'll live a very happy life.

Cdsnuts
02-15-2018, 08:34 PM
It definitely helps - I just have a lot of issues regarding connecting with people emotionally. Nothing seems to make me as happy or sad I should be (by society's standards). I don't feel love - I mean, for example, I love my wife, but I feel like a lot of the time she can't tell that I do. She knows what I'm dealing with so she does her best to not let it bother her, but I'm sure it does.

Don't get me wrong, the meditation/herb mental side of the protocol definitely helped and continues to help in the areas regarding anxiety, panic episodes, etc. I'm not sure if it will ever help with the emotional disconnect issue, but if it did I would be ecstatic. Prior to PFS, I tried to drown this part of my life out with alcohol. For whatever reason, I can connect with my emotions still when I'm drunk - but when I'm sober it's like something is broken, or something just is empty.

This all makes it sound depressing as hell, but I'm actually pretty pleased with my life and how things are going currently. Basically, if the whole emotional disconnect is all I have to deal with for the rest of my life, especially knowing what some of the guys I served with deal with, and what I've been through in the last few years - I'll live a very happy life.

PTSD, especially from the armed services, is quite outside of my wheel house, for sure. But given the way the breathing exercises work in the mind and body overall, I believe that it would have a cumulative effect in eventually quieting the mind, more so then going without them.

If I haven't said it before, I'm going to say it now. Thank you for your service Maxout. It's guys like you with nuts the size of cantaloupes that make our country what it is.

Despite my lack of knowledge in this specific area, I fully believe that continued practice of this regimen will only serve to benefit you and your quality of life.

Keep grinding my friend.

Brazilianguy
11-20-2018, 06:30 AM
Hi just wanted to update and ask for help.

I’m still struggling and it seems that I can’t have any ejaculation, even sex, wet dreams or even pre cum. Anytime I get one of these I get worse. So I noticed that when I eat peanuts, nuts, Brazil nuts the next day I will get wet dreams, so I decided to avoid. If I eat something with cinnamon I will get wet dreams in the same night and I get worse. So I don’t know what to do to avoid this at all cost.

I get worse in these departments: libido, dick get softer, gynecomastia worse, more belly, less muscle.

And I also can’t do any anaerobic exercise, even calisthenics because my muscle will hurt (normal) but it will take like a week to recover, but my cortisol will rise and I will get worse too. Even if I do some biceps exercises I get wet dreams. So I guess I can only walk, jog and run.

I also noticed spicy food makes me ejaculate while sleep so I’m avoiding too. I drank ginger tea yesterday and today I got a wet dream so I don’t know if it was related to the ginger or the messages of one girl that got me horny and resulted in a wet dream.

What do you guys suggest? I was thinking about kegels to control ejaculation a little bit, I mean I wake up before the ejaculation happens so I try to avoid it but it’s hard, sometimes I can avoid it sometimes I can’t. And too much kegels, specially at night seems to make me get a wet dream too.

One thing I experimented and I noticed a real difference is taking the herbs while I’m watching TV and taking the herb while I go for a walk/running. I noticed that if my heartbeat is faster for 30 minutes the herb will get a better effect it’s really noticeable.

Other problem I noticed is that if I take 2 herbs at the same time they will get me worse, I feel super anxious and I get worse too. I noticed when I took 2 tribulus at the same time.

I also noticed that paleo diet makes me worse too, maybe my adrenals are not strong enough yet.

Any recommendations guys? I’m sure this is the way to go because I felt the difference but I’m in a plateau that is hard to get out of this up and down when the down side makes me get right back to step 1 not making me getting the upswing.

jacknap
11-20-2018, 12:05 PM
Hi just wanted to update and ask for help.

I’m still struggling and it seems that I can’t have any ejaculation, even sex, wet dreams or even pre cum. Anytime I get one of these I get worse. So I noticed that when I eat peanuts, nuts, Brazil nuts the next day I will get wet dreams, so I decided to avoid. If I eat something with cinnamon I will get wet dreams in the same night and I get worse. So I don’t know what to do to avoid this at all cost.

I get worse in these departments: libido, dick get softer, gynecomastia worse, more belly, less muscle.

And I also can’t do any anaerobic exercise, even calisthenics because my muscle will hurt (normal) but it will take like a week to recover, but my cortisol will rise and I will get worse too. Even if I do some biceps exercises I get wet dreams. So I guess I can only walk, jog and run.

I also noticed spicy food makes me ejaculate while sleep so I’m avoiding too. I drank ginger tea yesterday and today I got a wet dream so I don’t know if it was related to the ginger or the messages of one girl that got me horny and resulted in a wet dream.

What do you guys suggest? I was thinking about kegels to control ejaculation a little bit, I mean I wake up before the ejaculation happens so I try to avoid it but it’s hard, sometimes I can avoid it sometimes I can’t. And too much kegels, specially at night seems to make me get a wet dream too.

One thing I experimented and I noticed a real difference is taking the herbs while I’m watching TV and taking the herb while I go for a walk/running. I noticed that if my heartbeat is faster for 30 minutes the herb will get a better effect it’s really noticeable.

Other problem I noticed is that if I take 2 herbs at the same time they will get me worse, I feel super anxious and I get worse too. I noticed when I took 2 tribulus at the same time.

I also noticed that paleo diet makes me worse too, maybe my adrenals are not strong enough yet.

Any recommendations guys? I’m sure this is the way to go because I felt the difference but I’m in a plateau that is hard to get out of this up and down when the down side makes me get right back to step 1 not making me getting the upswing.

wet dreams seems like a good sign. I haven't ejaculated from dreams ever just once got close pre-pfs after a girl cock teased me all night.

probably just stay away from stuff that makes you feel worse. have you done andro cycles yet or just herbs I can't remember? honestly I think you should just do andro as an experiment is a game changer for me and my libido. helped boost my libido big time. maybe by 25%?

Brazilianguy
11-21-2018, 07:08 AM
wet dreams seems like a good sign. I haven't ejaculated from dreams ever just once got close pre-pfs after a girl cock teased me all night.

probably just stay away from stuff that makes you feel worse. have you done andro cycles yet or just herbs I can't remember? honestly I think you should just do andro as an experiment is a game changer for me and my libido. helped boost my libido big time. maybe by 25%?

It's a sign that your body is working somehow, but its not good for me because it always makes me feel worse right after and my gynecomastia also get worse. Maybe you're getting too much pre-cum from watching porn, edging, masturbation or sex, that's why you don't get them.

I won't take pro-hormones, they are not necessary to recover and since I have adrenal fatigue, I can't do even light weight lifting, even calesthenics, my cortisol raise too much, my body takes too long to recover and I crash, just like when I drink coffee. The same way I can't do paleo diet too. Even tried vegetarian/vegan diet, it makes my body worse, my sleep worse etc.

jacknap
11-21-2018, 02:57 PM
It's a sign that your body is working somehow, but its not good for me because it always makes me feel worse right after and my gynecomastia also get worse. Maybe you're getting too much pre-cum from watching porn, edging, masturbation or sex, that's why you don't get them.

I won't take pro-hormones, they are not necessary to recover and since I have adrenal fatigue, I can't do even light weight lifting, even calesthenics, my cortisol raise too much, my body takes too long to recover and I crash, just like when I drink coffee. The same way I can't do paleo diet too. Even tried vegetarian/vegan diet, it makes my body worse, my sleep worse etc.

how do you know unless you try though?

Brazilianguy
11-22-2018, 09:13 AM
how do you know unless you try though?

I tried prohormones before, I can't exercise because if I do I get worse. I can't stress my body with ejaculation, even pre cum, exercises even calisthenics. Once I handle these things I will start exercises. I need help with these things.

Trump_1776
11-22-2018, 04:59 PM
It seems to me you get worse with added androgens?

Brazilianguy
11-23-2018, 06:36 AM
It seems to me you get worse with added androgens?

No, that's not the problem. I get worse with some stimulation, like weightlifting, coffee, alcohol, ginger, cinnamon, I even tried to do some aerobics alone and I got a wet dream like when I just try to exercise my biceps. This is not good because I always get worse when I ejaculate so I'm avoiding at all cost but this is something I really can't control because it happens when I sleep.

Yesterday I had it and I don't know if it happened because I was thinking about some girls before sleep or because I exercised, it seems like its both. It's a fucking hell, specially when you do things that will make you recover, you feel that you're recovering and then this shit happenes and you got worse and back to square one.

Brazilianguy
11-29-2018, 06:44 AM
Guys, I was thinking about buying Maca Root but I found powder and pills which one is better?

Do you guys take it everyday? I ask it because some people say that you need to take everyday since its a superfood.
Does it contain coffee or any stimulant? I can't handle them yet.
Do you guys notice it increasing your balls or is it just a natural viagra?

I bought it once but from a terrible brand and really cheap and I felt nothing. I'm taking tribulus once every two weeks because that's the way I feel more of the benefits. I'm thinking about taking it together only once every 2 weeks or maybe maca everyday or I don't know one week I take maca and the other tribulus.

If you guys take too much maca, do you guys feel anxious or worse? I ask it because when I take 2 pills of tribulus I get terrible anxiety, depression and I get a crash later.

Thank you guys, please when you post try to put a lot of details and information

basementdweller
11-29-2018, 10:36 AM
Guys, I was thinking about buying Maca Root but I found powder and pills which one is better?

Do you guys take it everyday? I ask it because some people say that you need to take everyday since its a superfood.
Does it contain coffee or any stimulant? I can't handle them yet.
Do you guys notice it increasing your balls or is it just a natural viagra?

I bought it once but from a terrible brand and really cheap and I felt nothing. I'm taking tribulus once every two weeks because that's the way I feel more of the benefits. I'm thinking about taking it together only once every 2 weeks or maybe maca everyday or I don't know one week I take maca and the other tribulus.

If you guys take too much maca, do you guys feel anxious or worse? I ask it because when I take 2 pills of tribulus I get terrible anxiety, depression and I get a crash later.

Thank you guys, please when you post try to put a lot of details and information

The first few times I took maca it gave me INSANE energy, made my junk bigger, gave me libido but some anxiety as well. Now I take it and it does absolutely nothing. This seems to be a pretty common thing with maca

I would recommend buying a small amount in powder form to experiment with. Pills are usually a rip off

jacknap
11-29-2018, 11:15 AM
Guys, I was thinking about buying Maca Root but I found powder and pills which one is better?

Do you guys take it everyday? I ask it because some people say that you need to take everyday since its a superfood.
Does it contain coffee or any stimulant? I can't handle them yet.
Do you guys notice it increasing your balls or is it just a natural viagra?

I bought it once but from a terrible brand and really cheap and I felt nothing. I'm taking tribulus once every two weeks because that's the way I feel more of the benefits. I'm thinking about taking it together only once every 2 weeks or maybe maca everyday or I don't know one week I take maca and the other tribulus.

If you guys take too much maca, do you guys feel anxious or worse? I ask it because when I take 2 pills of tribulus I get terrible anxiety, depression and I get a crash later.

Thank you guys, please when you post try to put a lot of details and information

I like the powder better because you can dose higher. I use like 7.5 grams in smoothies. CD recommends using it daily as it's a food. IF i'm not recovered after two years on protocol though I'll likely just cycle it once a week like basementdweller is saying to save money cause I don't really notice a difference using it chronically and kinda expensive though it's cheaper than most other herbs. I also recommend gelatanized nad make sure it's BLACK maca (the one proven to help males) the other ones might actually even be estrogenic. gelatanized helps absorption and reduce anti-nutrients.

Brazilianguy
11-30-2018, 08:28 AM
The first few times I took maca it gave me INSANE energy, made my junk bigger, gave me libido but some anxiety as well. Now I take it and it does absolutely nothing. This seems to be a pretty common thing with maca

I would recommend buying a small amount in powder form to experiment with. Pills are usually a rip off


I think you need a break from it, so it can work again. The same thing happened to me with tribulus, clomid and tamoxifen (I don’t take the medication anymore and don’t recommend)

I’m thinking about taking it but I don’t know if it will make tribulus stop working (I mean, some way tribulus and clomid work similar, because if I take clomid and some days later I take tribulus, tribulus won’t work)

Did you take maca with tribulus? If so, just maca stopped working or tribulus too?

Thanks for the advice

Brazilianguy
11-30-2018, 08:37 AM
I like the powder better because you can dose higher. I use like 7.5 grams in smoothies. CD recommends using it daily as it's a food. IF i'm not recovered after two years on protocol though I'll likely just cycle it once a week like basementdweller is saying to save money cause I don't really notice a difference using it chronically and kinda expensive though it's cheaper than most other herbs. I also recommend gelatanized nad make sure it's BLACK maca (the one proven to help males) the other ones might actually even be estrogenic. gelatanized helps absorption and reduce anti-nutrients.

Yeah, maybe it’s necessary to cycle it too. But let me ask you a question. Were you taking maca everyday and rotating other herbs at the same time? If so, could you tell me if the other herbs worked exactly like they should? I’m asking because I couldn’t mix tribulus with any estrogen blocker like clomid and tamoxifen, it seems like they all work by blocking estrogen somehow, because if I overdose clomid I get anxiety, and other symptoms of low estrogen, and the same thing happens with tribulus. Another thing that happens is that if I take clomid and then in a couple days I take tribulus, it won’t work or it will cause anxiety, I would like to know if it happens if I take tribulus and maca too and if maca could make tribulus stop working, I ask because I can definately feel the improvements tribulus bring me in just 2 hours after taking it.

Basement: I forgot to ask you. The first couple days of maca, did you notice anxiety? We’re you taking everyday?

Are you still taking it? Try to stop for 2 weeks and then start to cycle, so it may work again.

Do you guys feel it works like tribulus or it is different?

One guy called beekay recovered taking a very cheap brand of maca by biovera, it is in pill form though. I’ll try the powder first. But I will try both. It would be awesome if I could take maca and tribulus without one interfering with the other

jacknap
11-30-2018, 09:45 AM
Yeah, maybe it’s necessary to cycle it too. But let me ask you a question. Were you taking maca everyday and rotating other herbs at the same time? If so, could you tell me if the other herbs worked exactly like they should? I’m asking because I couldn’t mix tribulus with any estrogen blocker like clomid and tamoxifen, it seems like they all work by blocking estrogen somehow, because if I overdose clomid I get anxiety, and other symptoms of low estrogen, and the same thing happens with tribulus. Another thing that happens is that if I take clomid and then in a couple days I take tribulus, it won’t work or it will cause anxiety, I would like to know if it happens if I take tribulus and maca too and if maca could make tribulus stop working, I ask because I can definately feel the improvements tribulus bring me in just 2 hours after taking it.

Basement: I forgot to ask you. The first couple days of maca, did you notice anxiety? We’re you taking everyday?

Are you still taking it? Try to stop for 2 weeks and then start to cycle, so it may work again.

Do you guys feel it works like tribulus or it is different?

One guy called beekay recovered taking a very cheap brand of maca by biovera, it is in pill form though. I’ll try the powder first. But I will try both. It would be awesome if I could take maca and tribulus without one interfering with the other

I never had any problems with any herbs CD recommends. Yes I use MAca while still rotating all other herbs. That's what CD recommends on his site lol

RickTheRuler
11-30-2018, 09:57 AM
I’m puzzled by this thread tbh.

I don’t know your situation exactly, but I think you should just follow the outline. It seems like once you feel uncomfortable, you change things up & question yourself. I think you have to hang in there and go through these uncomfortable symptoms to come out better.

We can take Pine Pollen, Maca, & Shilajit everyday from what I hear. Everything else is rotated.

I wish I can order a big bucket of all 3 so I don’t have to keep purchasing them.


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basementdweller
11-30-2018, 10:08 AM
Basement: I forgot to ask you. The first couple days of maca, did you notice anxiety? We’re you taking everyday?

Are you still taking it? Try to stop for 2 weeks and then start to cycle, so it may work again.

Do you guys feel it works like tribulus or it is different?



Yes, when I took it early on I did get anxiety so I stopped and occasionally took a small dose. Recently I tried taking big doses >1 tablespoon in my rotation but I don't feel anything from it anymore.

Trib never did anything drastic for me so no, not comparable

Brazilianguy
11-30-2018, 03:01 PM
I never had any problems with any herbs CD recommends. Yes I use MAca while still rotating all other herbs. That's what CD recommends on his site lol

I tried maca but didn't get any result from it (shitty brand). I'm thinking about tongkat ali from biovea (a couple of guys recovered taking it).

Do you guys think Tongkat is the king of all herbs? I mean, everytime I see people saying that tongkat was by far the most potent test booster they ever tried.

Tribulus is still the best one for me, I've tried, panax ginseng (made me worse), mucuna, catuaba bark, muapuama etc but tribulus every single time I take it I feel the effects after 2 hours. I'm wondering if I can get even better results with tongkat, because if I do and get through this stage of any ejaculation getting me back to square one, that will be a good herb to take when I want a big boost.

As with tribulus I notice I get better results when I take it before aerobics. I tried taking it right after a 24 hours water fast but I don't remember if it was that or the aerobics that made me feel great once. I'll try again after 2 weeks.

Brazilianguy
11-30-2018, 03:05 PM
I’m puzzled by this thread tbh.

I don’t know your situation exactly, but I think you should just follow the outline. It seems like once you feel uncomfortable, you change things up & question yourself. I think you have to hang in there and go through these uncomfortable symptoms to come out better.

We can take Pine Pollen, Maca, & Shilajit everyday from what I hear. Everything else is rotated.

I wish I can order a big bucket of all 3 so I don’t have to keep purchasing them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My adrenals are not strong enough to get into exercises and paleo diet. I mean, if I do any kind of muscle exercises like squat or even just for the biceps I get a wet dream and I feel worse in all departments. But as soon I get through this stage I will do exercises and paleo diet. I wonder if carbo backloading is too stressful for the adrenals.

Which herb is your favorite? I'm trying to get the best one to special days but for now it is tribulus. I saw that you're getting great results, keep doing it man. For now I have no muscle, I can't do exercises because I have cortisol problems.

Brazilianguy
11-30-2018, 03:07 PM
Yes, when I took it early on I did get anxiety so I stopped and occasionally took a small dose. Recently I tried taking big doses >1 tablespoon in my rotation but I don't feel anything from it anymore.

Trib never did anything drastic for me so no, not comparable

So tribulus never helped you like it helped me...interesting, which herb do you think you feel the most? Many people swear by tongkat I didn't try it yet.

Have you tried ginko biloba? For me it only gave me good memory, maybe its good for nootropics but it's been a long time.

I won't go for maca, I saw that it made maxout worse too so I'll have to avoid it.

RickTheRuler
11-30-2018, 04:58 PM
From my limited knowledge, people who got out of adrenal fatigue (Not pfs) ate carbs & also ate in a caloric surplus among other things.

Don’t the T boosting herbs help with adrenals as well though? The herbs are not just Test Boosters, they do other things (gut, liver, etc.), I never looked into it though

The Rhemania is a good herb for feeding the kidneys. I’m actually looking for more kidney/adrenal herbs to do a little separate rotation purely for that. Blue Vervain is a good one for this. I’m looking for like 2-3 more kidney/adrenal supps.


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basementdweller
11-30-2018, 05:14 PM
I feel tongkat, butea, shilajit and rhodiola the most. You might be better off to start with the less stimulating adaptogens like ashwagandha, schisandra, eleuthero, suma, astragalus though. Theoretically they should help adrenals and balance cortisol

I haven't tried ginkgo, but I made a post earlier today about why I'm going to try it

jacknap
11-30-2018, 06:48 PM
the herbs that work/worked the best for me off the top of my head

ashwagandha
tongkat ali
tribulus (gave me nocturnals when i was completely impotent)
pine pollen powder (helped get a lot of personality back)
butea superba (aggression and libido)
rhodiola ( energy and mood)

You gotta get from a high quality source. for tribulus gotta get one with high sapiosins or whatver it's called. I use new roots canadian brand has 40% of it in it and use 1500mg so like 5 pills or something like that. im on cycle so forget

Brazilianguy
12-01-2018, 02:39 AM
the herbs that work/worked the best for me off the top of my head

ashwagandha
tongkat ali
tribulus (gave me nocturnals when i was completely impotent)
pine pollen powder (helped get a lot of personality back)
butea superba (aggression and libido)
rhodiola ( energy and mood)

You gotta get from a high quality source. for tribulus gotta get one with high sapiosins or whatver it's called. I use new roots canadian brand has 40% of it in it and use 1500mg so like 5 pills or something like that. im on cycle so forget

So for libido tongkat is your number 1 herb?
Ashwagandha I saw some guys saying it’s good for anxiety but some got a drop on other symptoms with it. Pine Pollen seems interesting and rhodiola too I’ll try to get at least one of them if I can. I don’t remember the compressed list of herbs to take when you don’t have money or access to the 21 herbs.

Brazilianguy
12-01-2018, 02:41 AM
From my limited knowledge, people who got out of adrenal fatigue (Not pfs) ate carbs & also ate in a caloric surplus among other things.

Don’t the T boosting herbs help with adrenals as well though? The herbs are not just Test Boosters, they do other things (gut, liver, etc.), I never looked into it though

The Rhemania is a good herb for feeding the kidneys. I’m actually looking for more kidney/adrenal herbs to do a little separate rotation purely for that. Blue Vervain is a good one for this. I’m looking for like 2-3 more kidney/adrenal supps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, when you increase T the adrenals also benefit. I’m thinking about trying salsaparilla since it seems cheap and good for a lot of things including libido.

Brazilianguy
12-01-2018, 02:44 AM
I feel tongkat, butea, shilajit and rhodiola the most. You might be better off to start with the less stimulating adaptogens like ashwagandha, schisandra, eleuthero, suma, astragalus though. Theoretically they should help adrenals and balance cortisol

I haven't tried ginkgo, but I made a post earlier today about why I'm going to try it

Is shilajit good for libido like tribulus and tongkat?

So your number 1 herb is tongkat?

I’m thinking tongkat is really the number 1 herb, at least is what I saw on the internet and in the list of you guys too. I’ll be looking for schizandra

Brazilianguy
12-01-2018, 08:42 AM
Guys. I’m thinking here, we all know that if we take just one Herb everyday, this herb will stop working, correct?

I had experience with clomid and tamoxifen, and guess what, the same thing happens, it will stop working. It’s not about our body getting used to the herb or cycling a lot of different herbs to still get the effects. Am I saying to stop cycling? Off course not.

I know that clomid increase testosterone but when our estrogen is too high the herbs will work weaker or won’t work at all, maybe even worse, will give us anxiety by increasing too much our estrogen or decreasing too much.

What I’m trying to say is basically extend the days of taking the powerful herbs, for example, if Monday I take tribulus, I’ll try to put anti estrogenic herbs the next days, so the estrogen will be down to a point when I take tongkat I’ll get most of the effects.

There are 3 guys that recovered by doing something like this. Actually they did at least 1 week break of everything so the effects got even stronger (less estrogen and prolactin I would say).

I’m thinking about take herbs to decrease my estrogen and prolactin for a bit, maybe some weeks so during this time I’ll try to lose body fat (less aromatization) and try to do some exercises (very light to avoid cortisol but good enough to try to get some muscle) and then I’ll go back to my powerful herbs.

Edit: If you don’t believe, try to do this test: the day before you take one of the best herbs, try to get a lot of sex/ejaculation, you will see that the herb won’t be that good, that’s because when we ejaculate our prolactin increase and our estrogen increase too.

jacknap
12-01-2018, 01:15 PM
So for libido tongkat is your number 1 herb?
Ashwagandha I saw some guys saying it’s good for anxiety but some got a drop on other symptoms with it. Pine Pollen seems interesting and rhodiola too I’ll try to get at least one of them if I can. I don’t remember the compressed list of herbs to take when you don’t have money or access to the 21 herbs.

yeah I think lost empire herbs tongkat is the most potent for me. Use it once a week when herb cycling. potent in terms of feeling a T boost and libido and aggression

Brazilianguy
12-02-2018, 05:13 AM
So as I said earlier, I took the tribulus one day after a wet dream and I got anxiety from it (and I think my feets were swollen too which is a sign of high estrogen). So I think it’s better to avoid taking it right after sex or any ejaculation. I don’t feel bad today though and I think I’m a bit better now.

I will try to read more about high estrogen, anxiety and swollen feets. Maybe it’s better to take the herbs on empty stomach (24 hours fast) and a week without ejaculating. I stopped doing these 24 hours fast before the special herbs because I couldn’t sleep well feeling starved. But will try and post here.

Brazilianguy
12-04-2018, 08:40 PM
Guys, can I ask you a favor? I would like you guys to try a 24 hours water fast before taking your best herb for libido, testosterone department. I mean, you do a water fast, take the herb with empty stomach and after 2 or 3 hours you can eat again. Also, right after you take the herb you should do aerobics or exercises in general, as long as your heart beat increase.

Then tell me if you noticed a more pronounced effect of the herb, I’m asking just to see if it happens only with me. If this tip work for you guys as well I will always do that when I take the favorite herb.

I’m thinking about stop taking herbs like tribulus, tongkat and maca because my estrogen is too high and I’m sure this is the reason why I’m so weak when I get a wet dream or when I take the herb and I can’t keep the improvement. When my estrogen is super high my herbs don’t work well. It happened in the past with clomid, Tamoxifen and tribulus too, so it’s definitely something we should pay attention

Any tips on how to decrease estrogen? I’m doing everything listed on the protocol, but in this case more is more.

basementdweller
12-04-2018, 09:11 PM
Guys, can I ask you a favor? I would like you guys to try a 24 hours water fast before taking your best herb for libido, testosterone department. I mean, you do a water fast, take the herb with empty stomach and after 2 or 3 hours you can eat again. Also, right after you take the herb you should do aerobics or exercises in general, as long as your heart beat increase.

Then tell me if you noticed a more pronounced effect of the herb, I’m asking just to see if it happens only with me. If this tip work for you guys as well I will always do that when I take the favorite herb.

I’m thinking about stop taking herbs like tribulus, tongkat and maca because my estrogen is too high and I’m sure this is the reason why I’m so weak when I get a wet dream or when I take the herb and I can’t keep the improvement. When my estrogen is super high my herbs don’t work well. It happened in the past with clomid, Tamoxifen and tribulus too, so it’s definitely something we should pay attention

Any tips on how to decrease estrogen? I’m doing everything listed on the protocol, but in this case more is more.

Maybe eat more greens, take vitamin E, eliminate PUFAs if you aren't already, I'm sure there's plenty of additional herbs that work on aromatase. I'd get bloods done though, no point in guessing.

Brazilianguy
12-05-2018, 02:19 PM
Maybe eat more greens, take vitamin E, eliminate PUFAs if you aren't already, I'm sure there's plenty of additional herbs that work on aromatase. I'd get bloods done though, no point in guessing.

Thanks dude, I'm already doing this all, vitamin E is from raw carrots everyday.

Which herbs work specifically on aromatase?

My last blood test came back with high estradiol and low testosterone, that's why everytime I take t boosters I get better and then I ejaculate and get worse, my E increase even more after the herbs and then when I ejaculate my E and Prolactin increase more, so I'm taking a break from them until february I guess, in february I'll do a blood test to see if my E decreased enough, so I'll start the herbs again. Until then I'll be doing the whole protocol even exercises (but I'll start slow).

Could you do the test I said above? The one that you do a water fast and then take your best T booster herb just to see if the result is even better. I think it is but I would like to see others trying, since its safe and if it works better to everyone it would be good to tell other people, so we can put this practice on the protocol too.

Trump_1776
12-06-2018, 11:45 AM
Thanks dude, I'm already doing this all, vitamin E is from raw carrots everyday.

Which herbs work specifically on aromatase?

My last blood test came back with high estradiol and low testosterone, that's why everytime I take t boosters I get better and then I ejaculate and get worse, my E increase even more after the herbs and then when I ejaculate my E and Prolactin increase more, so I'm taking a break from them until february I guess, in february I'll do a blood test to see if my E decreased enough, so I'll start the herbs again. Until then I'll be doing the whole protocol even exercises (but I'll start slow).

Could you do the test I said above? The one that you do a water fast and then take your best T booster herb just to see if the result is even better. I think it is but I would like to see others trying, since its safe and if it works better to everyone it would be good to tell other people, so we can put this practice on the protocol too.

Ginko Biloba.

Brazilianguy
01-13-2019, 10:17 AM
Any suggestion on what kind of zinc is better to decrease estrogen? Do you guys notice anything with zinc alone?

I'm thinking about buying some supplement with zinc to decrease my estrogen levels, I can't eat pumpkin seed (very high in zinc) because it makes me get a wet dream.

I heard that B complex also helps with cortisol, so I'm thinking about buying it.

Also if you guys have any link about people saying they got better with zinc, or even lab test showing estrogen decreasing with zinc I would appreciate. I don't really care with scientific papers saying that zinc decrease estradiol, I prefer people saying what they noticed.

jacknap
01-13-2019, 07:58 PM
Any suggestion on what kind of zinc is better to decrease estrogen? Do you guys notice anything with zinc alone?

I'm thinking about buying some supplement with zinc to decrease my estrogen levels, I can't eat pumpkin seed (very high in zinc) because it makes me get a wet dream.

I heard that B complex also helps with cortisol, so I'm thinking about buying it.

Also if you guys have any link about people saying they got better with zinc, or even lab test showing estrogen decreasing with zinc I would appreciate. I don't really care with scientific papers saying that zinc decrease estradiol, I prefer people saying what they noticed.

oysters for zinc. are pumpkin seeds bioavailable in zinc? I thought they were shit lol

RickTheRuler
01-13-2019, 11:37 PM
*bangs phone on face multiple times from confusion


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Brazilianguy
01-14-2019, 05:58 AM
oysters for zinc. are pumpkin seeds bioavailable in zinc? I thought they were shit lol

I can’t get oysters enough to reach 30mg of zinc. I don’t know, pumpkin seeds are delicious but gave me wet dreams so it’s a no for me

Cdsnuts
01-15-2019, 05:41 AM
I can’t get oysters enough to reach 30mg of zinc. I don’t know, pumpkin seeds are delicious but gave me wet dreams so it’s a no for me

Don't stress about wet dreams. That's not the same as masturbating to release. When I wasn't masturbating I would get them regularly.

Brazilianguy
01-15-2019, 08:30 AM
Don't stress about wet dreams. That's not the same as masturbating to release. When I wasn't masturbating I would get them regularly.

Unfortunatelly they make me crash. When I was at 40 or 70% they wouldn't make a difference, but now they do, I keep getting back to square one when I get a wet dream. I think they make my prolactin and estrogen too high, and then the herbs don't work as good as without them.

What I'm trying to do now is to get a better response from them, for example when I take them and go jogging I notice a better effect but I still need to check if I do hiit right after I get even better results, if this get confirmed I would take 1 herb that would work like 2 or 3 capsules at the same time.

I also noticed that when I get the best of the herb I get similar effects comparing to 12.5mg of clomid. And clomid is way faster to recover, but I prefer the herbs they are much more reliable and safer. I don't touch clomid for a very long time now.

Cd, what do you think about zinc supplementation? I saw some guys on nofap forums saying that zinc makes them not get worse with ejaculation, so maybe zinc decrease prolactin and estrogen enough and then doesn't make people crash. That would be cool. I tried increasing zinc from pumpkin seeds but they make me get a wet dream the night after, so I can't take them.

Cdsnuts
01-15-2019, 03:50 PM
Unfortunatelly they make me crash. When I was at 40 or 70% they wouldn't make a difference, but now they do, I keep getting back to square one when I get a wet dream. I think they make my prolactin and estrogen too high, and then the herbs don't work as good as without them.

What I'm trying to do now is to get a better response from them, for example when I take them and go jogging I notice a better effect but I still need to check if I do hiit right after I get even better results, if this get confirmed I would take 1 herb that would work like 2 or 3 capsules at the same time.

I also noticed that when I get the best of the herb I get similar effects comparing to 12.5mg of clomid. And clomid is way faster to recover, but I prefer the herbs they are much more reliable and safer. I don't touch clomid for a very long time now.

Cd, what do you think about zinc supplementation? I saw some guys on nofap forums saying that zinc makes them not get worse with ejaculation, so maybe zinc decrease prolactin and estrogen enough and then doesn't make people crash. That would be cool. I tried increasing zinc from pumpkin seeds but they make me get a wet dream the night after, so I can't take them.

My man....Wet dreams do not have the same cascading effects on the system as when you orgasm purposely. I'm not going to say they don't effect you negatively, because you maybe feeling a certain way when it happens. But wet dreams are a sign of a healthy system, especially if your with-holding orgasm and ejaculation. I can tell you whatever it is you may feel when you get them, they are not going to stop the healing process.

In regards to zinc, this one you have to be careful with. I would typically only get supplemental zinc when taking ZMA at night. It works great in the beginning but after taking it for awhile it starts to have the opposite effect. You only want to supplement this once in awhile, every few days, etc. You don't want to over do it.

Brazilianguy
01-15-2019, 03:58 PM
My man....Wet dreams do not have the same cascading effects on the system as when you orgasm purposely. I'm not going to say they don't effect you negatively, because you maybe feeling a certain way when it happens. But wet dreams are a sign of a healthy system, especially if your with-holding orgasm and ejaculation. I can tell you whatever it is you may feel when you get them, they are not going to stop the healing process.

In regards to zinc, this one you have to be careful with. I would typically only get supplemental zinc when taking ZMA at night. It works great in the beginning but after taking it for awhile it starts to have the opposite effect. You only want to supplement this once in awhile, every few days, etc. You don't want to over do it.

Yeah, masturbation is way worse but wet dreams also makes me feel bad too (it’s lighter but still there). I get wet dreams from too much exercise, from nuts and when I feel that I’m talking too much to girls that I wanna fuck. They stop a bit my healing process (unfortunately) they are the steps behind after my 3 steps forward. But I guess if I get stronger effects from the herbs I’ll be able to not get much steps back.

Yeah a lot of guys said that zinc starts to get them anxious (I guess it’s from the lower estrogen and too much dopamine stimulation that it cause). How many mg of zinc contain in you’re zma? I was thinking about taking zinc E3D for 2 weeks like 15 or 30mg and then stop and take only after orgasm to see if I avoid any mini crash or recover faster from the refractory period.

Thank you brother.

Cdsnuts
01-15-2019, 07:34 PM
Yeah, masturbation is way worse but wet dreams also makes me feel bad too (it’s lighter but still there). I get wet dreams from too much exercise, from nuts and when I feel that I’m talking too much to girls that I wanna fuck. They stop a bit my healing process (unfortunately) they are the steps behind after my 3 steps forward. But I guess if I get stronger effects from the herbs I’ll be able to not get much steps back.

Yeah a lot of guys said that zinc starts to get them anxious (I guess it’s from the lower estrogen and too much dopamine stimulation that it cause). How many mg of zinc contain in you’re zma? I was thinking about taking zinc E3D for 2 weeks like 15 or 30mg and then stop and take only after orgasm to see if I avoid any mini crash or recover faster from the refractory period.

Thank you brother.

Dude....don't stress about wet dreams, really. It's a waste of your energy. It means things are working the way they should.

ZMA has 30mg of zinc.

jacknap
01-15-2019, 09:04 PM
Yeah, masturbation is way worse but wet dreams also makes me feel bad too (it’s lighter but still there). I get wet dreams from too much exercise, from nuts and when I feel that I’m talking too much to girls that I wanna fuck. They stop a bit my healing process (unfortunately) they are the steps behind after my 3 steps forward. But I guess if I get stronger effects from the herbs I’ll be able to not get much steps back.

Yeah a lot of guys said that zinc starts to get them anxious (I guess it’s from the lower estrogen and too much dopamine stimulation that it cause). How many mg of zinc contain in you’re zma? I was thinking about taking zinc E3D for 2 weeks like 15 or 30mg and then stop and take only after orgasm to see if I avoid any mini crash or recover faster from the refractory period.

Thank you brother.

lol I wish I got a wet dream. Ive never had one before. Only once in like 2013 because a girl cock teased me all night. Are you not letting yourself orgasm at all? no sex no masturbation right? lol maybe have some sex if you can get it. better than either wet dreams or masturbation.

Cdsnuts
01-15-2019, 10:03 PM
lol I wish I got a wet dream. Ive never had one before. Only once in like 2013 because a girl cock teased me all night. Are you not letting yourself orgasm at all? no sex no masturbation right? lol maybe have some sex if you can get it. better than either wet dreams or masturbation.

That is true. Sex is recommended during this period because it is helpful for healing. But again, wet dreams are nothing to worry about.

Brazilianguy
01-16-2019, 10:51 AM
Unfortunatelly in my case wet dreams makes me lose muscle mass, its literally a mini crash, so I try to avoid it always. One thing that I'm trying to do it to take my herbs and get even more results from them, like I said water fast, herb and then hiit makes them work better but I'm not totally sure, so if the idea of taking herbs with empty stomach and then hiit really work for me, I would get a better result and then slowly the wet dreams won't be as bad as it is right now and I will be able to improve faster.

Fausto said that he noticed that when he takes the herbs with empty stomach and then he does hiit while swimming he noticed better results from his herbs too, so I wanted to see other guys trying to do something similar to see if this happen to everybody, if it happens then we all should do like this.

Cdsnuts
01-16-2019, 09:39 PM
Unfortunatelly in my case wet dreams makes me lose muscle mass, its literally a mini crash, so I try to avoid it always. One thing that I'm trying to do it to take my herbs and get even more results from them, like I said water fast, herb and then hiit makes them work better but I'm not totally sure, so if the idea of taking herbs with empty stomach and then hiit really work for me, I would get a better result and then slowly the wet dreams won't be as bad as it is right now and I will be able to improve faster.

Fausto said that he noticed that when he takes the herbs with empty stomach and then he does hiit while swimming he noticed better results from his herbs too, so I wanted to see other guys trying to do something similar to see if this happen to everybody, if it happens then we all should do like this.

Bro....you realize how crazy that sounds....right? I'm not doubting the way you feel, but nocturnal emissions are part of a healthy functioning system.

Here is your catch 22...by making the herbs work better, your incidence of wet dreams are going to be more of a common occurrence. When your hormones are increased and you're not releasing, your body will do it for you. Why would think that you're going to have less wet dreams if the efficacy of the herbs are increased?

It's also recommended to take the herbs on an empty stomach in the first place followed by a little caffeine if you can tolerate it. When you do HIIT after dosing, the effects seem stronger because after a good HIIT session, your metabolism get's amped up, so those herbs are going to be metabolized faster.

Regardless, as long as you stick to the outlined regimen, things are going to fall into place. Whether or not your do HIIT after taking the herbs isn't going to make or break your progress either way.

Brazilianguy
01-20-2019, 09:37 AM
Bro....you realize how crazy that sounds....right? I'm not doubting the way you feel, but nocturnal emissions are part of a healthy functioning system.

Here is your catch 22...by making the herbs work better, your incidence of wet dreams are going to be more of a common occurrence. When your hormones are increased and you're not releasing, your body will do it for you. Why would think that you're going to have less wet dreams if the efficacy of the herbs are increased?

It's also recommended to take the herbs on an empty stomach in the first place followed by a little caffeine if you can tolerate it. When you do HIIT after dosing, the effects seem stronger because after a good HIIT session, your metabolism get's amped up, so those herbs are going to be metabolized faster.

Regardless, as long as you stick to the outlined regimen, things are going to fall into place. Whether or not your do HIIT after taking the herbs isn't going to make or break your progress either way.

I know it sounds crazy but when I eat nuts or drink some stimulants I get wet dreams for one day or two, sometimes even three days in a row. This doesn't look normal and not healthy since wet dreams increase prolactin and estrogen, I notice after this 3 days wet dreams my gyno got way worse and the pain around my nipple was worse too. So I'm trying to avoid at all cost even knowing its impossible.

Unfortunately I can't tolerate caffeine yet, but I did notice that after a good hiit session the herbs work way better than taking it with empty stomach and waiting for it do its job. Next time I'll try take the herbs after 15 or 24 hours water fast to see if I can get even better results.

jacknap
01-20-2019, 12:09 PM
I know it sounds crazy but when I eat nuts or drink some stimulants I get wet dreams for one day or two, sometimes even three days in a row. This doesn't look normal and not healthy since wet dreams increase prolactin and estrogen, I notice after this 3 days wet dreams my gyno got way worse and the pain around my nipple was worse too. So I'm trying to avoid at all cost even knowing its impossible.

Unfortunately I can't tolerate caffeine yet, but I did notice that after a good hiit session the herbs work way better than taking it with empty stomach and waiting for it do its job. Next time I'll try take the herbs after 15 or 24 hours water fast to see if I can get even better results.

lol I don't understand how can't tolerate things. like your dick is gunna fall off from coffee, gym, nuts, andro? what do you mean by tolerate?

RickTheRuler
01-20-2019, 12:32 PM
lol I don't understand how can't tolerate things. like your dick is gunna fall off from coffee, gym, nuts, andro? what do you mean by tolerate?

Word. I still go hard as a motherfucker, not worried about tolerance & stuff . I just have to for my sanity, not even pfs. Get all that energy & mind chatter out on the weights. could be a factor into my strength as well, releasing all the tension.


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Brazilianguy
01-21-2019, 11:24 AM
lol I don't understand how can't tolerate things. like your dick is gunna fall off from coffee, gym, nuts, andro? what do you mean by tolerate?

My dick would shrink from coffee, heavy weight lifting and nuts, my brain fog and sleep would be worse and stay worse, my gyno would get worse etc. I think I made myself clear in a couple posts above.

Brazilianguy
01-21-2019, 11:26 AM
Word. I still go hard as a motherfucker, not worried about tolerance & stuff . I just have to for my sanity, not even pfs. Get all that energy & mind chatter out on the weights. could be a factor into my strength as well, releasing all the tension.


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Yeah your pfs is not as severe as mine since you don't have gynecomastia, you still have and can build muscle, so you can workout normally, if I were in your shoes I would do the same, but I can't, if I do it I would feel like getting propecia pills and getting worse, I think its related to cortisol, beekay and other recovered guys said the same thing about exercises.

RickTheRuler
01-21-2019, 01:48 PM
Yeah your pfs is not as severe as mine since you don't have gynecomastia, you still have and can build muscle, so you can workout normally, if I were in your shoes I would do the same, but I can't, if I do it I would feel like getting propecia pills and getting worse, I think its related to cortisol, beekay and other recovered guys said the same thing about exercises.

I can’t build that much muscle mass either despite progressively getting stronger and stronger . I’ve been basically stuck at 187-191.

I do have slight gyno but it’s not noticeable, it looks like regular pecs but there is some fat there.

Sometimes I felt worse, sometimes I didn’t. But it gets better.

I Think you have to get in that mode where you just ignore symptoms and just get to it. It’s a lot of day to day hyperanalysis going on here. My opinion. You have to close your eyes for 6 months to a year, then assess.

If I got wet dreams daily , I’d be doing backflips. That’s a lot even for a normal guy

It’s a propecia help vibe when you go to the “your pfs isn’t severe” . it’s all bad. Just get to it

Cdsnuts
01-22-2019, 05:36 PM
Brazilian guy...we're not picking on you, I just want to clear that up. It just seems like you're one of the guys who is not really progressing much. Don't take that as a negative or a dig, because the whole point of this section is to help people navigate their way out of this mess.

I've been doing this for awhile, so you can kind of get a vibe from each member, especially if they post alot.

How long would you say you've been on the protocol 100%? Because as we all know, that is what has to be invested in this, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.

And, you gotta let this whole wet dream thing go man. You WANT your body to be doing that. It's natural, healthy. It means that your body is working properly on some level. This is good news. Having that happen is a sign things are going in the right direction.

Some how though, I have a feeling despite getting this news, you may still be trying to "tweak" certain things. Let me tell you....it's your prerogative, but nothing needs to be tweaked for the most part, just consistently done.

So that being said, how long have you been 100%, or are you not there yet?

Cdsnuts
01-22-2019, 05:47 PM
lol I don't understand how can't tolerate things. like your dick is gunna fall off from coffee, gym, nuts, andro? what do you mean by tolerate?

It's common for a large percentage of guys to be super sensitive to caffeine. I was one of them. And yes, it shoots cortisol through the roof, anxiety sky rockets and your dick shrinks up tight. Never heard it from nuts and the others.

Brazil....this means you're not ready for caffeine and possibly you need to dial back your exercise program to suit where you are physically and mentally.

Based on this, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been following the protocol to the best of your abilities. Or you're grab bagging it and taking pieces of other protocols that you find appealing while avoiding ones your don't like. I could be wrong, but given the amount of time you've been here, and your current state, I'm thinking it's a safe bet.

How about we fix this?

Brazilianguy
02-01-2019, 09:21 AM
It's common for a large percentage of guys to be super sensitive to caffeine. I was one of them. And yes, it shoots cortisol through the roof, anxiety sky rockets and your dick shrinks up tight. Never heard it from nuts and the others.

Brazil....this means you're not ready for caffeine and possibly you need to dial back your exercise program to suit where you are physically and mentally.

Based on this, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been following the protocol to the best of your abilities. Or you're grab bagging it and taking pieces of other protocols that you find appealing while avoiding ones your don't like. I could be wrong, but given the amount of time you've been here, and your current state, I'm thinking it's a safe bet.

How about we fix this?


It's common for a large percentage of guys to be super sensitive to caffeine. I was one of them. And yes, it shoots cortisol through the roof, anxiety sky rockets and your dick shrinks up tight. Never heard it from nuts and the others.

Brazil....this means you're not ready for caffeine and possibly you need to dial back your exercise program to suit where you are physically and mentally.

Based on this, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been following the protocol to the best of your abilities. Or you're grab bagging it and taking pieces of other protocols that you find appealing while avoiding ones your don't like. I could be wrong, but given the amount of time you've been here, and your current state, I'm thinking it's a safe bet.

How about we fix this?

Hi Cd, unfortunately the same thing that I get from caffeine, I get from exercises and wet dreams, but I have some good news.

I’m starting to get more resistant to these kind of things, for example before I would get a mini crash even from pre cum, and now I think I’m handling it much better (I’m not sure yet but I think I don’t crash from it anymore), my gyno lumps are not as painful anymore (it is just a bit and just one side, so I’m recovering from it too) I’m sleeping better, sometimes I get a bit of dopamine and feel happier doing things I like.

I did a test and took tribulus after a 15 hours fasting and then hiit sessions, it wasn’t as good as without the fasting, I noticed I felt more tired from hiit after fasting. It could be that or other things like I couldn’t hiit last week because it was raining a lot where I live so my hiit sessions were worse because I stopped training. But the last one I did, the tribulus work super strong, like one pill was feeling like 2 or 3 pills.

I was talking to Fausto and it seems this tribulus is better than world abs and lost empire tongkat Ali. Seems stronger.

Right now I’m feeling that my body is getting rid of excess estrogen first and then I’ll start feeling the other parts of recovery, but I’m already feeling a little bit more dopamine functions and a little tiny bit of libido is floating here too, it’s hit and miss but I’m glad I’m feeling it, makes me feel relieved.

The more pronounced effects are sleep and brain fog improving here. I remember when I reached 70% recovered it was first the mental sides that were improving and then physical like, muscle mass, body hair, body composition and then libido and penile sensitivity. Do you guys feel the same process?

Yesterday I took tribulus but today I had a wet dream, so I had a mini crash (I’m thinking this is also getting weaker (thanks God) but I still crash from it a little bit) once I pass through this stage I guess my recovery will accelerate and be more stable.

basementdweller
02-01-2019, 10:43 PM
Hi Cd, unfortunately the same thing that I get from caffeine, I get from exercises and wet dreams, but I have some good news.

I’m starting to get more resistant to these kind of things, for example before I would get a mini crash even from pre cum, and now I think I’m handling it much better (I’m not sure yet but I think I don’t crash from it anymore), my gyno lumps are not as painful anymore (it is just a bit and just one side, so I’m recovering from it too) I’m sleeping better, sometimes I get a bit of dopamine and feel happier doing things I like.

I did a test and took tribulus after a 15 hours fasting and then hiit sessions, it wasn’t as good as without the fasting, I noticed I felt more tired from hiit after fasting. It could be that or other things like I couldn’t hiit last week because it was raining a lot where I live so my hiit sessions were worse because I stopped training. But the last one I did, the tribulus work super strong, like one pill was feeling like 2 or 3 pills.

I was talking to Fausto and it seems this tribulus is better than world abs and lost empire tongkat Ali. Seems stronger.

Right now I’m feeling that my body is getting rid of excess estrogen first and then I’ll start feeling the other parts of recovery, but I’m already feeling a little bit more dopamine functions and a little tiny bit of libido is floating here too, it’s hit and miss but I’m glad I’m feeling it, makes me feel relieved.

The more pronounced effects are sleep and brain fog improving here. I remember when I reached 70% recovered it was first the mental sides that were improving and then physical like, muscle mass, body hair, body composition and then libido and penile sensitivity. Do you guys feel the same process?

Yesterday I took tribulus but today I had a wet dream, so I had a mini crash (I’m thinking this is also getting weaker (thanks God) but I still crash from it a little bit) once I pass through this stage I guess my recovery will accelerate and be more stable.

the world abs brand is pretty badass imo... what brand are you taking that you think is better?

Brazilianguy
02-03-2019, 07:08 AM
the world abs brand is pretty badass imo... what brand are you taking that you think is better?

Hey man idk if you can buy it, but it seems better since it’s better than now foods, world abs tongkat and lost empire tongkat, the effect seems stronger according to what Fausto said.

Herbarium (http://www.herbarium.com.br/produtos/sob-prescricao/androsten/)

This is the brand, androsten by herbarium (tribulus)

Brazilianguy
02-06-2019, 05:43 AM
Hey man idk if you can buy it, but it seems better since it’s better than now foods, world abs tongkat and lost empire tongkat, the effect seems stronger according to what Fausto said.

Herbarium (http://www.herbarium.com.br/produtos/sob-prescricao/androsten/)

This is the brand, androsten by herbarium (tribulus)

Update: I’m getting sometimes a little bit of libido and dopamine reactions, before it was non existent. My gynecomastia is not hurting as bad as before, actually the pain is almost gone. When I’m in the good moment 2 or 3 days after tribulus I get more energy, waking up better, some libido is starting to appear, erections and penis size is not great yet but it’s not cold anymore. This wavy thing is complicated because you see what you’re getting but you know that it will decrease in the future, but it’s also a good indicator of what will be your next baseline after some weeks.

Right now I’m feeling stronger, less fat (but I still need to lose weight and bodyfat), sleeping is becoming more refresh but I still wake up 2 hours before I should, so I wake up and go back to bed to sleep more. No morning wood yet (I think I’ll get it after the sleep gets totally normal). I have moments of clarity and personality coming back.

Things that helped me the most: Chewing a lot my food, less carbs, jogging (to increase my resistance to hiit), eating a lot of green before lunch and dinner, I’m also eating at least one egg a day and the best way tribulus work for me is when I wake up with empty stomach, I wait for 30 minutes or 45 minutes to feel good and then I take the herb and go hiit, the better my hiit session the better the herb will work in my body. Hope get a huge effect of tribulus (my best herb) the next time I’ll take it and post here that I won’t crash from wet dreams anymore like I’m not crashing from pre-cum.

Brazilianguy
02-09-2019, 06:55 AM
Update: I’m getting sometimes a little bit of libido and dopamine reactions, before it was non existent. My gynecomastia is not hurting as bad as before, actually the pain is almost gone. When I’m in the good moment 2 or 3 days after tribulus I get more energy, waking up better, some libido is starting to appear, erections and penis size is not great yet but it’s not cold anymore. This wavy thing is complicated because you see what you’re getting but you know that it will decrease in the future, but it’s also a good indicator of what will be your next baseline after some weeks.

Right now I’m feeling stronger, less fat (but I still need to lose weight and bodyfat), sleeping is becoming more refresh but I still wake up 2 hours before I should, so I wake up and go back to bed to sleep more. No morning wood yet (I think I’ll get it after the sleep gets totally normal). I have moments of clarity and personality coming back.

Things that helped me the most: Chewing a lot my food, less carbs, jogging (to increase my resistance to hiit), eating a lot of green before lunch and dinner, I’m also eating at least one egg a day and the best way tribulus work for me is when I wake up with empty stomach, I wait for 30 minutes or 45 minutes to feel good and then I take the herb and go hiit, the better my hiit session the better the herb will work in my body. Hope get a huge effect of tribulus (my best herb) the next time I’ll take it and post here that I won’t crash from wet dreams anymore like I’m not crashing from pre-cum.

Just another update: Took zinc 7mg yesterday and I think I’m over sensitive, it gave me a little bit of anxiety and a little bit of depression, they were very manageable. I’m just writing here to warn others and myself in the future. Now I have a little bit of libido, I can feel it, couple weeks ago it was no existent. Next weekend I’ll have more improvements to share here.

LetsGo
02-14-2019, 11:27 AM
I can’t build that much muscle mass either despite progressively getting stronger and stronger . I’ve been basically stuck at 187-191.

I do have slight gyno but it’s not noticeable, it looks like regular pecs but there is some fat there.

Sometimes I felt worse, sometimes I didn’t. But it gets better.

I Think you have to get in that mode where you just ignore symptoms and just get to it. It’s a lot of day to day hyperanalysis going on here. My opinion. You have to close your eyes for 6 months to a year, then assess.

If I got wet dreams daily , I’d be doing backflips. That’s a lot even for a normal guy

It’s a propecia help vibe when you go to the “your pfs isn’t severe” . it’s all bad. Just get to it

I think the reason you’re not adding muscle mass comes down to insufficient calories. Your body won’t really add muscle mass in a calorie deficit (except for those who are just starting out in the gym.) If your body weight is stable, you should probably eat a bit more (300 - 400 calories per day) and your small weight gain should end up being mostly muscle. As Rich Piana (from YouTube) always said, “You gotta eat big to get big.”

I know you lost a huge amount of weight on your fast (which is great!), so probably you’re tracking your calories to keep your weight down. But to keep making muscle gains, it’s okay to have a small calorie surplus.

If you end up gaining a bit too much fat after 3 - 4 months or so of a small calorie surplus, then you can go on a cut to get rid of the fat, while still lifting. You will regain any lost muscle pretty quickly - the extra muscle cells never go away, they just shrivel up. So the muscles come back fast when you’re regaining them, much faster than it took to earn the muscle mass the first time.

RickTheRuler
02-16-2019, 08:20 AM
I think the reason you’re not adding muscle mass comes down to insufficient calories. Your body won’t really add muscle mass in a calorie deficit (except for those who are just starting out in the gym.) If your body weight is stable, you should probably eat a bit more (300 - 400 calories per day) and your small weight gain should end up being mostly muscle. As Rich Piana (from YouTube) always said, “You gotta eat big to get big.”

I know you lost a huge amount of weight on your fast (which is great!), so probably you’re tracking your calories to keep your weight down. But to keep making muscle gains, it’s okay to have a small calorie surplus.

If you end up gaining a bit too much fat after 3 - 4 months or so of a small calorie surplus, then you can go on a cut to get rid of the fat, while still lifting. You will regain any lost muscle pretty quickly - the extra muscle cells never go away, they just shrivel up. So the muscles come back fast when you’re regaining them, much faster than it took to earn the muscle mass the first time.

Your totally correct. I think a lot of it has to do with the diet as well.. when you eat paleo and backload only on weightlifting days with sprinting in between, eventually you’ll plateau when it comes to mass cause of the caloric content of the food..I try my best when I backload to eat as much as possible. Literally force feed at times. the greens,fruits, proteins and fats alone aren’t notorious for packing on mass, it’s just good for nutrition and health.




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Brazilianguy
02-20-2019, 08:44 AM
Update: I took the zinc, just one pill, 7mg, and it worked exactly like arimidex for me. It gave me anxiety, a bit of depression and after a couple days my gyno got a bit worse. I also think it made the herbs work a bit worse, but now I’m no longer anxious or depressed, my gyno is recovering well, I’m not as fat as before (so I think my body is decreasing estrogen) my energy is a bit better, sleep is a bit better too, personality, my libido is flutuating, before it was no existent)

Wet dreams still crash me but it’s crashing a little bit less comparing to before, it feels like I’m getting my body stronger so some stuff won’t crash my anymore (like pre cum).

I also noticed that after edging in the night I had a wet dream, so I won’t do this again. I woke up in the middle of the night with a night wood, really hard, so I can see some improvements. I will get a lot of work after the middle of March so I will stop taking the herbs again at least for a month, the good thing is that when I stop them and come back after a month they work super strong and get me to a new level.

LetsGo
02-21-2019, 09:49 AM
When you say wet dreams, do you mean ejaculations while you’re asleep? How often does this happen? For most guys, it takes at least 4 weeks without an orgasm to have a wet dream, but it sounds like this is something you get several times a week?

When you say you crash from wet dreams, what are your crash symptoms when this happens?

What does your herb cycle look like?

Sorry for all the questions. Anyway, I’m glad that you seem to be on an upswing!

Brazilianguy
02-21-2019, 05:33 PM
When you say wet dreams, do you mean ejaculations while you’re asleep? How often does this happen? For most guys, it takes at least 4 weeks without an orgasm to have a wet dream, but it sounds like this is something you get several times a week?

When you say you crash from wet dreams, what are your crash symptoms when this happens?

What does your herb cycle look like?

Sorry for all the questions. Anyway, I’m glad that you seem to be on an upswing!

Yes, ejaculation while you're sleeping. It happens one or twice in two weeks, if I take vitamin D, high dose, it can happen 3 times in a week, if I take dht it will make me get wet dreams too. I noticed that if I edge, I get it too.

My crash symptoms are worse sleep (just a little bit), I get a bit more tired in the days, I get a worse baseline too, my gyno get worse, my muscle mass etc, basically it changes my ratio T:E to more E.

My herb cycle right now is just tribulus once every two weeks, sometimes I put other herbs but I avoid herbs that increase T, just one herb is working way better for me than 7, 10, 14 herbs. When I stopped herbs for one month or a little bit more, while doing the rest of the protocol, when I took tribulus again after one month I got a huge benefit from it and gave me libido back a little, my libido now is flutuating from nothing, to a little bit of libido, before I had nothing. My dick is a bit more large now, more sensitive (just a little bit),

I don't recommend zinc, I took and it worked like arimidex for me, it gave me anxiety, depression and made my gyno worse too, and I also think the zinc made the herb weaker, but now I'm no longer anxious or depressed.

Brguy
01-19-2020, 12:25 PM
Are you the same Brazilianguy who had recovered there at PPH using TRT?

Cdsnuts
01-23-2020, 03:59 PM
Are you the same Brazilianguy who had recovered there at PPH using TRT?

That's interesting as i've never heard of anyone recovering from pfs using TRT.

entropy
01-27-2020, 05:19 PM
It's been done. There's a few guys but they're few and far between and coincidentally do all of the right things too.

Brazilianguy
02-10-2021, 06:27 PM
Hey guys. Long time I don’t write here but unfortunately this is not a good text. I’m getting severe anxiety and panic attacks that are making my head burn.

What I noticed is that I’m weak to some herbs like tribulus. Every time I take it I feel anxious, depressed, get severe insomnia, get a wet dream the next day and get way worse, basically tribulus is putting me in a worse situation and it’s working like clomid or novaldex. So what I wanted to ask you guys is if you know which herb would be good to my case, and maybe if you guys know any herb that is really weak, I can’t even stand 1/8 of a tribulus pill.

Also I’m thinking if I should stay only to exercises until my anxiety, panic gets better. What do you guys think? I really need help.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2021, 09:09 AM
Hey guys. Long time I don’t write here but unfortunately this is not a good text. I’m getting severe anxiety and panic attacks that are making my head burn.

What I noticed is that I’m weak to some herbs like tribulus. Every time I take it I feel anxious, depressed, get severe insomnia, get a wet dream the next day and get way worse, basically tribulus is putting me in a worse situation and it’s working like clomid or novaldex. So what I wanted to ask you guys is if you know which herb would be good to my case, and maybe if you guys know any herb that is really weak, I can’t even stand 1/8 of a tribulus pill.

Also I’m thinking if I should stay only to exercises until my anxiety, panic gets better. What do you guys think? I really need help.

Depends. How strict were you being with the protocol? 100%, 75%? Stop taking the trib and just move onto the next herb in rotation. If you're doing something other then the outlined protocol, it's impossible to know where you are when I'm not sure where you've been.

Brazilianguy
02-11-2021, 05:55 PM
Depends. How strict were you being with the protocol? 100%, 75%? Stop taking the trib and just move onto the next herb in rotation. If you're doing something other then the outlined protocol, it's impossible to know where you are when I'm not sure where you've been.

Pretty much 90% of it. I was just avoiding weight lifting (because everytime I do it my cortisol raises too much, I feel worse and stay worse) but I’m doing walking and some hiit (if you can’t run, walk, if you can’t walk, craw). I do Whim Hof breathing technique too, cold shower, diet.

I know it will sound strange but everytime I take an herb that is too strong for me (for example, tribulus, even 1/8 of a pill, really) I get an anxious and depressed feeling and when I go to sleep (I take herbs in the morning with empty stomach, but maybe with food I still get the same reaction) I get severe insomnia and will get wet dreams the next day (and I don’t know what happens but it feels like I get drained, weak, my eyes get red and more depressed, anxious, and then my sleep gets worse, I can’t sleep with the same quality etc)

I even tried psilocin but with my recent panic attack episodes that caused dissociative and desrealization I’m feeling so afraid to take it again (even taking microdose). It was making me good though but last time I took tribulus I got 2 wet dreams and my balls were hurting. My panic attacks came with a burning sensation on my head and it was probably from 2 wet dreams that made my sleep really bad.

I got vervain tincture that is helping a bit with the anxiety, but it’s not pure vervain, there is a mix of herbs for anxiety, but I’m feeling better but still afraid.

So I was thinking about a very gentle herb since tribulus is too stimulant for me, maybe some herbs that won’t get me stimulated.

Brazilianguy
02-11-2021, 06:02 PM
My friend also got bad reaction he was rotating tribulus, shilajit, maca, royal jelly, tongkat, pine pollen, ashwaghanda, cordyceps, mucuna, and others and he got severe anxiety too.

I’m sure this is the way to go to recovery because herbs + exercise + diet is the key factors in all recoveries I read online, with some variations like breathings, cold shower etc. And I’m sure that I need some herb(s) to help my body get and stay in a new level of health. I just need to go easier, lighter at least for now that I’m very sensitive. If felt like I was drinking a gallon of coffee.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2021, 06:34 PM
Pretty much 90% of it. I was just avoiding weight lifting (because everytime I do it my cortisol raises too much, I feel worse and stay worse) but I’m doing walking and some hiit (if you can’t run, walk, if you can’t walk, craw). I do Whim Hof breathing technique too, cold shower, diet.

I know it will sound strange but everytime I take an herb that is too strong for me (for example, tribulus, even 1/8 of a pill, really) I get an anxious and depressed feeling and when I go to sleep (I take herbs in the morning with empty stomach, but maybe with food I still get the same reaction) I get severe insomnia and will get wet dreams the next day (and I don’t know what happens but it feels like I get drained, weak, my eyes get red and more depressed, anxious, and then my sleep gets worse, I can’t sleep with the same quality etc)

I even tried psilocin but with my recent panic attack episodes that caused dissociative and desrealization I’m feeling so afraid to take it again (even taking microdose). It was making me good though but last time I took tribulus I got 2 wet dreams and my balls were hurting. My panic attacks came with a burning sensation on my head and it was probably from 2 wet dreams that made my sleep really bad.

I got vervain tincture that is helping a bit with the anxiety, but it’s not pure vervain, there is a mix of herbs for anxiety, but I’m feeling better but still afraid.

So I was thinking about a very gentle herb since tribulus is too stimulant for me, maybe some herbs that won’t get me stimulated.

You're better off getting the stand alone: Blue Vervain | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/blue-vervain/)

If trib is bothering you that much, simply don't take it anymore.

Brazilianguy
02-11-2021, 06:57 PM
You're better off getting the stand alone: Blue Vervain | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/blue-vervain/)

If trib is bothering you that much, simply don't take it anymore.

Could you tell me how strong is blue vervain? I mean, just giving me an exemple how effective it was for you (just to make me feel calm, sorry). Does it interfere with testosterone?

Yeah I will save tribulus for the future I guess when I feel I’m ready to take it without getting problems, just like coffee.

Cd, which herb do you feel helps us but it’s also sweet, gentle to the body? I mean, I wanted a tribulus that wouldn’t cause insomnia etc.

My friend (Fausto, he is on swolesource) took many herbs, prohormone and got depressed, and he said tribulus was also bad for him too, maybe the most strong herb regarding stimulant effect, giving anxiety etc.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2021, 07:01 PM
Could you tell me how strong is blue vervain? I mean, just giving me an exemple how effective it was for you (just to make me feel calm, sorry). Does it interfere with testosterone?

Yeah I will save tribulus for the future I guess when I feel I’m ready to take it without getting problems, just like coffee.

Cd, which herb do you feel helps us but it’s also sweet, gentle to the body? I mean, I wanted a tribulus that wouldn’t cause insomnia etc.

My friend (Fausto, he is on swolesource) took many herbs, prohormone and got depressed, and he said tribulus was also bad for him too, maybe the most strong herb regarding stimulant effect, giving anxiety etc.

Nothing on my site lowers testosterone. It would go against everything the site stands for. Of course it's safe! Blue vervain to me feels like a very low dose of a benzo.

Brazilianguy
02-14-2021, 09:42 AM
You're better off getting the stand alone: Blue Vervain | Total Male Optimization (https://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/blue-vervain/)

If trib is bothering you that much, simply don't take it anymore.


It feels exactly like clomid and it's not just for me. Do you think I should stay away from herbs for some time? I mean, clomid stop working and make people feel worse because T and E gets high.

And I was thinking here regarding my problem with wet dreams, basically my body wasn't holding the herbs anymore and made me feel anxious, depressed, with insomnia and then the way the body would balance my hormones was by orgasm, because it would increase my prolactin and decrease my dopamine. I had wet dream theses days and they don't feel as bad as before.

2 things I'd like to ask (one is not on totalmaleoptimization btw)

1 - What are your thoughts about icing the balls? I read on reddit some guys saying it takes the cold showers benefits to a whole new level. I did it yesterday but IDK if something good happened (too soon to tell, but maybe I'm a bit better today).

2 - Which herbs do you think its weaker than tribulus? I'm thinking about a more gentle approach, specially because I had a very high quality tribulus and it was too much for me, it was almost like clomid (weaker, but still too strong). Maybe I need to just do the rest of the protocol for some time until my hormones get ready for herbs again.

Cdsnuts
02-14-2021, 01:16 PM
It feels exactly like clomid and it's not just for me. Do you think I should stay away from herbs for some time? I mean, clomid stop working and make people feel worse because T and E gets high.

And I was thinking here regarding my problem with wet dreams, basically my body wasn't holding the herbs anymore and made me feel anxious, depressed, with insomnia and then the way the body would balance my hormones was by orgasm, because it would increase my prolactin and decrease my dopamine. I had wet dream theses days and they don't feel as bad as before.

2 things I'd like to ask (one is not on totalmaleoptimization btw)

1 - What are your thoughts about icing the balls? I read on reddit some guys saying it takes the cold showers benefits to a whole new level. I did it yesterday but IDK if something good happened (too soon to tell, but maybe I'm a bit better today).

2 - Which herbs do you think its weaker than tribulus? I'm thinking about a more gentle approach, specially because I had a very high quality tribulus and it was too much for me, it was almost like clomid (weaker, but still too strong). Maybe I need to just do the rest of the protocol for some time until my hormones get ready for herbs again.

Stop the trib if it's giving you that much trouble. DON'T stop the others.....that would be silly and a waste of your time.

I prefer cold showers because they offer more benefits then just icing the balls, but hey, whatever knocks your socks off.

Your hormones aren't going to be "ready" for herbs without taking the herbs. THEY are what bring your hormones back online....slowly. If I had to make a guess, I'd say you were not rotating the trib properly. One dose weekly at minimum should not give you all of those side effects. I'm betting you were taking it more often than you are admitting.

Brazilianguy
02-18-2021, 04:32 PM
Stop the trib if it's giving you that much trouble. DON'T stop the others.....that would be silly and a waste of your time.

I prefer cold showers because they offer more benefits then just icing the balls, but hey, whatever knocks your socks off.

Your hormones aren't going to be "ready" for herbs without taking the herbs. THEY are what bring your hormones back online....slowly. If I had to make a guess, I'd say you were not rotating the trib properly. One dose weekly at minimum should not give you all of those side effects. I'm betting you were taking it more often than you are admitting.

No, I was taking once every two weeks it was 1/6 or 1/8 of a pill. I noticed I felt my ball sore, insomnia, anxious, depressed. The same thing I noticed with Clomid. What I was reading and checking bloodtest of other guys, is that tribulus Works by blocking estrogen (receptor maybe?) and it then increase LH, FSH and testosterone. But if you take too much or too often your estrogen will be high and then one of the two things would happen (tribulus won't work or it would make me and others worse).

This is common with Clomid that is way stronger than tribulus. Usually people need to stay away until the estrogen decrease, so it would be ok to take again and feel the benefits.

It seems tongkat ali does the same, but I'm not sure.

I think in this case me and others need to do two things, stop tribulus to let the body restart the hormones and then take a weaker tribulus or weaker herb. I was looking for maca but I don't know how it works.

Cd, could vou tell me the strongest herb you took and the weaker?

Cdsnuts
02-18-2021, 05:33 PM
No, I was taking once every two weeks it was 1/6 or 1/8 of a pill. I noticed I felt my ball sore, insomnia, anxious, depressed. The same thing I noticed with Clomid. What I was reading and checking bloodtest of other guys, is that tribulus Works by blocking estrogen (receptor maybe?) and it then increase LH, FSH and testosterone. But if you take too much or too often your estrogen will be high and then one of the two things would happen (tribulus won't work or it would make me and others worse).

This is common with Clomid that is way stronger than tribulus. Usually people need to stay away until the estrogen decrease, so it would be ok to take again and feel the benefits.

It seems tongkat ali does the same, but I'm not sure.

I think in this case me and others need to do two things, stop tribulus to let the body restart the hormones and then take a weaker tribulus or weaker herb. I was looking for maca but I don't know how it works.

Cd, could vou tell me the strongest herb you took and the weaker?

No...I can't.

Firstly, I have way too many other things to attend to besides listing the perceived strength and weakness of each herb. This isn't what your focus should be on.

Secondly, I don't think you get it. It's not about what herbs are in your rotation, for the most part...at all. The benefits of the herbs come from rotating as many of them as you can WHILE doing EVERYTHING else listed in the protocol. You have WAY to much focus on Trib, for some strange reason.

And please, stop comparing Tribulus to Clomid. It's ridiculous.

So to clarify....you think that by taking an 1/8 of a Trib pill, every 14 days caused you all of these issues? Come on dude.

You need to stop focusing so much on something that isn't important in the overall scheme of things. In the other group I don't think I heard someone say Tribulus so much in such a short amount of time as I have from you. STOP!!!

It's just not necessary.

One herb per day for either a seven, fourteen or twenty one day cycle......THAT'S IT. The combination of these things along with the rest of the protocol is what is going to fix you. To put so much importance on one herb is nonsense.

Mineiro-up
02-18-2021, 09:32 PM
Brazilianguy, sorry to say, but are you struggling with PFS since 2016? I just came back in the 1st page of this thread and you were still comparing tribulus with clomid, not in this words, but with the same speech, doing micromanagment and worryng too much about It.

Hope you get better soon Man.

Dude1988
02-18-2021, 10:07 PM
I think this one of the most unfortunate effect of the PFS battle: you become an extremely high inhibition person
The opposite of a cool calm and collected male in control. Self-doubt creeps in way quicker for us.

Brazilian guy do you have any penis shrinkage?

Cdsnuts
03-05-2021, 06:38 PM
I think this one of the most unfortunate effect of the PFS battle: you become an extremely high inhibition person
The opposite of a cool calm and collected male in control. Self-doubt creeps in way quicker for us.

Brazilian guy do you have any penis shrinkage?

It is the EXACT opposite......literally. And we try not to talk so much about the problems here rather, the solution to those problems. Most guys have most symptoms or a grab bag of them all, and really, it doesn't matter. The answer to ALL the issues are the same anyway.

Zerolibido
11-09-2023, 09:56 PM
Peanuts? Man, this sounds like analysis paralysis to me, could be you just hit another downswing instead of the actual peanuts causing that....if you're really "crashing" from peanuts, you need to do a water fast for a week or a juice feast for two, and get that system cleansed out. That's an extremely unstable environment you have going there if peanuts are crashing you.

Would you suggest a fucking fast prejudice feast to every ducking disease known to.man?!!

Zerolibido
11-09-2023, 09:58 PM
No...I can't.

Firstly, I have way too many other things to attend to besides listing the perceived strength and weakness of each herb. This isn't what your focus should be on.

Secondly, I don't think you get it. It's not about what herbs are in your rotation, for the most part...at all. The benefits of the herbs come from rotating as many of them as you can WHILE doing EVERYTHING else listed in the protocol. You have WAY to much focus on Trib, for some strange reason.

And please, stop comparing Tribulus to Clomid. It's ridiculous.

So to clarify....you think that by taking an 1/8 of a Trib pill, every 14 days caused you all of these issues? Come on dude.

You need to stop focusing so much on something that isn't important in the overall scheme of things. In the other group I don't think I heard someone say Tribulus so much in such a short amount of time as I have from you. STOP!!!

It's just not necessary.

One herb per day for either a seven, fourteen or twenty one day cycle......THAT'S IT. The combination of these things along with the rest of the protocol is what is going to fix you. To put so much importance on one herb is nonsense.

I want to shit E On your face you cu t
You knew Clomid was stronger and more effective but you coukdntnbankmany monetarily that you yank piece of shot

Hope ducking China nukes you cunts

Zerolibido
11-09-2023, 10:15 PM
If you've been throwing down SERMs and other pharms to try to remedy this, yes you need to do a lengthy fast to make your system healthy enough to respond again.
What the fuck isnwro.h with seems you cunt

Clomid is ducking more effective than rotating stimulus and tongkatbfirmlow testosterone you fucking spastic