Recovery plan and questions

[t14]

I have quite a list of symptoms that started after taking some beta-sitosterol containing supplements, and also no longer respond to androgens, so I can only assume that this is some pfs type problem.

These symptoms include:
-no libido
-ED
-Apathy, loss of emotions, social and motivational problems, lack of interest and enjoyment
-10+kg fat gain independant of diet and exercise (I was naturally lean before)
-puffy/chubby/emasculated face (this one is killing me, I used to like the way I looked)
-mental and physical fatigue
-unrefreshing sleep, I feel like hell unless I get atleast 10-11 hours
-bad brain fog
-worsened anxiety
-muscle pain
-Some Muscle wasting
-gyno

My current recovery plan involves:
-circadian rythm: early to bed early to rise
-getting alot of sunlight
-mindset and stress: mindfulness+metta meditation - atleast 1 hour/day
-intermittant fasting & paleo type diet: 1-2 meals/day, probs in the morning for convenience
-exercise: cardio + weights 2-5 times a week depending on my muscle & joint pains
-alcohol/caffeine/narcotic avoidance
-tribulus/tongkat/maybe other herbal libido boosters
-Basic vitamins/minerals
-being patient


As for my questions:
-Has anyone had trouble with creatine? I'd like to start taking it but some people from the propeciahelp forum say that it caused them to crash
-Likewise anyone had troubles with Maca? I'm scared of this one because it contains beta-sitosterol
-I notice a theme being put forward here is that chemical solutions don't lead to lasting or even meaningful recoveries, Is using growth hormone peptides to help with sleep, muscle pain, and the physique benefits a bad idea? As far as I've read they don't cause any shutdown so you can stop whenever
- As I've been struggling alot with motivations and doing things lately I'm stuck thinking that forcing myself to do healthy and productive things when all i really feel like doing is lying down and reading will end up with me burning out and stressed to the max which would be counterproductive, any thoughts on this?
-Is doing a fast necessary? I'm scared of losing what muscle I have left

I would love some tips and suggestions, and any encouragement you can manage would help more than you know.

[CannonBalls]

As I've been telling the other guys in here, I have noticed great improvement after doing a 7 day juice feast. Yeah, the prep was a pain in the ass, but it was well worth it. From my experience, everything CD has posted is legit. I'm sure some things will affect people differently but the overall regimen works. I'm not 100% but have greatly improved.

Do a fast or juice feast. I did lose muscle mass, but bounced back quicker than I thought I would.

As for the MACA, I avoid it. I was taking it before my crash along with saw palmetto. Later I read that it could be a 5 ar inhibitor. CD said he took MACA and had no issues. I'm probably being overly cautious, but I have the 21 day herbal rotation that does not include it.

[t14]

As I've been telling the other guys in here, I have noticed great improvement after doing a 7 day juice feast. Yeah, the prep was a pain in the ass, but it was well worth it. From my experience, everything CD has posted is legit. I'm sure some things will affect people differently but the overall regimen works. I'm not 100% but have greatly improved.

Do a fast or juice feast. I did lose muscle mass, but bounced back quicker than I thought I would.

As for the MACA, I avoid it. I was taking it before my crash along with saw palmetto. Later I read that it could be a 5 ar inhibitor. CD said he took MACA and had no issues. I'm probably being overly cautious, but I have the 21 day herbal rotation that does not include it.

What about water fasting? and this might be a dumb question, but how exactly do you do a juice fast?

[DrivenToRecover]

Juice feast, not fast.

& Google is your friend

[t14]

Probably going to do water fasting instead since I'm worse off than most that I see on here. Would sarcosine or d-aa (or any other t-boosters for that matter) be an issue on a water fast? They're technically amino acids but I'm only taking a combined total of 6g a day.

[t14]

Update:
-have stopped the ai with mixed results, some negative physical & emotional changes but also a few positive mental/emotional ones. Gyno is getting worse, more muscle wasting, more hip fat, chubbier face and more of overthinking but I'm also able to enjoy things more now and I have at least some of my personality back. I think I've pretty much accepted that my growth has been stunted now and there's nothing I can do with it, hopefully packing on muscle after I recover can make up for my awkward adolescant/feminine(?) body shape. That reminds me, is it safe to go on trt or other steroids after recovering? Trying low dose masteron when I was doing self trt, before I knew I had this & thought I just had low t, led to a second crash which made all my symptoms worse. I needed trt before this and will probably need it after but I don't want to crash myself again.

-Did 2 & 3 day water fasts consecutively a couple of weeks ago (was meant to be 5 but fucked up and had mexican at the end of day 2) and have been doing intermittant fasting (2 meals a day, one for breakky one for lunch). Have been gluten/dairy/soy free and am doing a paleo-esque diet with only meat/fruit/safe veg although It's not strict paleo as I have not excluded green peas or chickpeas since they're a good source of fibre which I would otherwise struggle to get. I also sometimes have other non paleo foods that I don't get bad inflammation from.

-Have changed gyms to one with a sauna because i believe heavy metals could be a problem for me, since the herb that fucked me up (gotu kola) plus a couple I took before that are known to hyperaccumulate them, and heavy metal toxicity is linked to gyno. Idk if it's otherwise beneficial since I feel pretty bad & worn out for a day or so after using it, not sure if this is from moving heavy metals around or if its just more stress than my body can handle. I've only been weight training twice a week with two cardio days since It seems like doing more than that is wearing me out wayyy too much, even with this small volume I feel like dirt for a long while after training, although I think the cardio is helping alot.

-I've also been keeping up with metta/loving kindness meditation aswell as mindfulness, 30 min each of both a day, I think these have both helped me alot and allow me to be more at peace and fuction better. I'm struggling with the fact that I'm stuck on the sidelines of life while my friends are all genuinely enjoying themselves, making mad gains and starting to date/fuck decent looking chicks, although I am happy with them I'm still coming to terms with being a bystander.

-As for supplements I've been taking basic vitamins, s.boulardii, PQQ (helps I think?), tongkat, DAA, and some tribulus although I've found that higher doses of tribulus actually make me feel quite a lot worse, will probably start a rotation soon. Is the whole dht prohormone cycle thing really necessary? It seems like stuff that increases dht makes me feel worse with masteron causing a second crash and high dose tribulus making me feel terrible.

-I need to remember to stay away from places like propeciahelp/solvepfs completely. The rampant negativity and doom & gloom in those places infects me like a fuckin disease man.

[holyhead]

Update:
-have stopped the ai with mixed results, some negative physical & emotional changes but also a few positive mental/emotional ones. Gyno is getting worse, more muscle wasting, more hip fat, chubbier face and more of overthinking but I'm also able to enjoy things more now and I have at least some of my personality back. I think I've pretty much accepted that my growth has been stunted now and there's nothing I can do with it, hopefully packing on muscle after I recover can make up for my awkward adolescant/feminine(?) body shape. That reminds me, is it safe to go on trt or other steroids after recovering? Trying low dose masteron when I was doing self trt, before I knew I had this & thought I just had low t, led to a second crash which made all my symptoms worse. I needed trt before this and will probably need it after but I don't want to crash myself again.

-Did 2 & 3 day water fasts consecutively a couple of weeks ago (was meant to be 5 but fucked up and had mexican at the end of day 2) and have been doing intermittant fasting (2 meals a day, one for breakky one for lunch). Have been gluten/dairy/soy free and am doing a paleo-esque diet with only meat/fruit/safe veg although It's not strict paleo as I have not excluded green peas or chickpeas since they're a good source of fibre which I would otherwise struggle to get. I also sometimes have other non paleo foods that I don't get bad inflammation from.

-Have changed gyms to one with a sauna because i believe heavy metals could be a problem for me, since the herb that fucked me up (gotu kola) plus a couple I took before that are known to hyperaccumulate them, and heavy metal toxicity is linked to gyno. Idk if it's otherwise beneficial since I feel pretty bad & worn out for a day or so after using it, not sure if this is from moving heavy metals around or if its just more stress than my body can handle. I've only been weight training twice a week with two cardio days since It seems like doing more than that is wearing me out wayyy too much, even with this small volume I feel like dirt for a long while after training, although I think the cardio is helping alot.

-I've also been keeping up with metta/loving kindness meditation aswell as mindfulness, 30 min each of both a day, I think these have both helped me alot and allow me to be more at peace and fuction better. I'm struggling with the fact that I'm stuck on the sidelines of life while my friends are all genuinely enjoying themselves, making mad gains and starting to date/fuck decent looking chicks, although I am happy with them I'm still coming to terms with being a bystander.

-As for supplements I've been taking basic vitamins, s.boulardii, PQQ (helps I think?), tongkat, DAA, and some tribulus although I've found that higher doses of tribulus actually make me feel quite a lot worse, will probably start a rotation soon. Is the whole dht prohormone cycle thing really necessary? It seems like stuff that increases dht makes me feel worse with masteron causing a second crash and high dose tribulus making me feel terrible.

-I need to remember to stay away from places like propeciahelp/solvepfs completely. The rampant negativity and doom & gloom in those places infects me like a fuckin disease man.

I have the same shitty weight issue..Just gets worse and worse..Have gained over 40lbs of just fluid like filled tissue around stomach, waist and love handles..Even thighs and upper biceps are a lot more fat..Low energy coupled with this weight gain and mental side effects is like a reciepe for death for myself..Its horrible condition that there seems to be not even any relief for let a lone a cure..

[t14]

Today I was reminded again how important cardio is after completely destroying the shitty mood I had all last night and this morning with only 20 mins of exercise

might start doing some wim hoff aswell

[holyhead]

Dude I used to run 30plus miles a week..Owned a treadmill for 15 years..Would run 5.25 on average in 45 minutes..Keep a food journal, everything..Weight 160 to 165 for 15years..Now weigh 205! While taking this I noticed slight increase in my body fat and strange like fluid around stomach..After stopping have under went a complete physical change..I can barley run 2 miles now let alone 5..Energy is so low and the weight is so tiresome..Still can't figure this out but defintely hormonal its different than getting fat from consuming calories..I may try a fast next some have said that has helped..Its unbelievable really..I am getting a complete hormone panel done in next week or so..Will post results everyone tells me its estrogen taking over from lack of dht and low test causing the fluid retention and body fat..

[t14]

when's the last time you ran?

[holyhead]

Been about a month now..Seemed to make no difference other than making feel like shit instead of helping. I am gonna try again to start back slowly...See how my body responds..But it seemed as if it was hurting me or putting me under a greatt deal of stress just running two miles..No way could I make it like in the old days..My body is pretty much like a marshmellow now.

[t14]

did a 3 day fast not long ago and since then my bones and joints have been acheing, have also had increased emotional dullness

[t14]

but on the plus side I've had some moments of, albeit very mild, sexual desire :D

[Cdsnuts]

In regards to cleansing. There is a reason why I recommend a two week cleanse (or longer if possible) Guys have kind of just taken it upon themselves to do shorter versions of this...intermittent fasting, two or three day cleanses, etc. This isn't enough. Sometimes it takes two or three days just for your body to really get into the cleansing phase and if you stop around that time, you've done nothing but dump a bunch of garbage into your blood stream that your body now has to deal with on top of your other symptoms. You basically stop it right as it's getting prepped to do what it needs to do.

Juice feasts are a little more forgiving because you're stll providing your body with nutrients and energy but still.....two weeks should be the minimum to shoot for....not less.

And yes, you will lose muscle and size, but you need to build a strong foundation before worrying about your aesthetics. Can't build a strong house with a foundation of mud. You need to tear down, and rebuild.

[Cdsnuts]

Been about a month now..Seemed to make no difference other than making feel like shit instead of helping. I am gonna try again to start back slowly...See how my body responds..But it seemed as if it was hurting me or putting me under a greatt deal of stress just running two miles..No way could I make it like in the old days..My body is pretty much like a marshmellow now.

If this is how you're feeling after exerting yourself then you need to back it up a bit. You may be doing more harm then good.

[t14]

I will start a 2-3 week fast after my family lunch tomorrow, might aswell get it over with

how do you feel about stuff like exercise and sauna during water fasts?

[Cdsnuts]

I will start a 2-3 week fast after my family lunch tomorrow, might aswell get it over with

how do you feel about stuff like exercise and sauna during water fasts?

DO NOT exericse while cleansing. It is counterproductive to say the least. The point of a cleanse is to have your body use ALL it's energy to detoxify your cells. Sauna's are a different story. Sauna's add to the detox process in a very good way. Just be careful. Sometime the detox can become too intense if you're detoxing too hard. That being said sauna's can help speed the process greatly.

Exercise on the other will actually slow down the process. Rather then using the energy to detox, you're using it to lift, pull, push etc. When detoxing the most exercise you want to do is walking. If you have the energy, go for nice long walks at a nice slow pace. This will help move the lymph fluid around expediting the purges from your system. Remember, you want to use ALL your available energy for detoxing only.

Other then that, use the time to lay around and relax, and more importantly, use the time to practice your meditation. The Wim Hof breathing method will also help detox your system by increasing oxygen and carbon dioxide transport in and out of your system not too mention it is a fantastic way to get you into the meditative mindset.

[t14]

on day 8 of a water fast, going to do atleast 15 days, hopefully around 20
Fatigue hasnt been too bad since day 3 but I'm down to like 64 kg now :-( Hunger is non-existant as long as im distracted but at times i get strong urges to eat and find myself daydreaming about what im going to eat when i break the fast, can also smell food from really far away and it all smells amazing.

[t14]

Been working in 1 day periods of dry fasting and for better or worse it seems much more intense in regards to detoxing, big clusters of pimples and rashes popping up and symptoms worsening, I won't be doing it anymore since it's overwhelming me. Just about finished day 10 now.

[Swill]

Been working in 1 day periods of dry fasting and for better or worse it seems much more intense in regards to detoxing, big clusters of pimples and rashes popping up and symptoms worsening, I won't be doing it anymore since it's overwhelming me. Just about finished day 10 now.

It really is overwhelming but try and remain calm, of course symptoms will worsen... you are not getting your energy from food and your body is going into survival mode. The fact you are getting pimples and rashes I believe is a sign of detox in itself. I know where you are at, the water fast was the most intense and mentally challenging part of it all for me, but if I were you I would if at all possible stick it out another couple of days... you are in the golden zone where all the magic is happening and have already made it further than most... you'll be glad you did in the long run.

[t14]

It really is overwhelming but try and remain calm, of course symptoms will worsen... you are not getting your energy from food and your body is going into survival mode. The fact you are getting pimples and rashes I believe is a sign of detox in itself. I know where you are at, the water fast was the most intense and mentally challenging part of it all for me, but if I were you I would if at all possible stick it out another couple of days... you are in the golden zone where all the magic is happening and have already made it further than most... you'll be glad you did in the long run.

the water fasting itself has been pretty easy, it's just adding in the periods without water that are overwhelming, I'm hesitant to do more dry fast periods since my anhedonia and sleep got bad after the other day

[t14]

one thing i've been wondering is, how do you know when it's best to stop fasting? should I just stick to my arbitrary time period or push it to see how long I can go?

[Cdsnuts]

Not sure where you came up with the idea for dry fasting....but it's a horrible one.

Your body needs water, obviously, but for more then just to live. You're going through one of the most intense detox's in your life and you need the water to help eliminate these things from your system. You stop taking in water, your systems of elimination get slowed down or stop (sweating, urinating, vapor in your exhalations, etc) It's no wonder why your detox symptoms are overwhelming you. All that garbage just "gets stuck."

You have to help facilitate it's removal....drink water.

Water fast, or juice feast my friend. These things have all been thought out for you......just do them.

[Swill]

Totally agree with what CD said there.

One thing that blew me away a little with water fasting was how you dont need a shit tonne of water either, just enough to eliminate (about 4 cups a day). I had the preconception that you'd drink a shit tonne to compensate for the lack of food, but fluids are used to a large extent in the digestion process so without that going on you dont need to drink loads.

But the water is the vehicle for eliminating the waste, definitely keep drinking man.

[Cdsnuts]

When I did my first fast, I stopped all kinds of pharms cold turkey. Pain killers, tranquilizers and sleeping pills. I don't recommend doing that nor is it recommended....I didn't tell them I was taking any meds...at that point, I didn't care if I came back from California or not. I was either going to fast and die, or something positive was going to happen....I honestly didn't care at that point. The fast was my hail mary......

It was brutal...those drug detox's alone are horrible let alone when your super detoxing...hell on earth. That's what it was. I was awake for ten days straight until I collapsed. I was literally a zombie.

But what I noticed was when the detox's got really bad....I would reach a point where I thought I was going to lose my shit....and then it would break, or settle down. After these "cleansing episodes" I would notice my urine would stink like chemicals. It was like clock work...Detox, get a bad reaction, feel like I was losing my mind, then calm...then smelly urine...everytime. It came in waves every couple days. Then as I got cleaner, sometimes I would have a few in a day. Then after the worst of it, just every other day or so until I broke the fast. I should have went longer on my first one because I was really fucked, but I was happy to eat after two weeks. I knew right then and there at the 14th day when I was breaking my fast that I was going to have to do another one because I could still tell there was stuff to get out.

The point is, you need to drink water to get this stuff out and have these uncomfortable reactions.....that's the name of the game...it's the whole point of why your fasting. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just do what works.

[t14]

sleep has been really fragmented and unrestful lately

not sure how long im going to keep the fast going, tomorrow will be the 2 week mark

[Swill]

sleep has been really fragmented and unrestful lately

not sure how long im going to keep the fast going, tomorrow will be the 2 week mark

Again FYI, this is to be expected... I went on a medically supervised fast to the same facility as CD and it was one of the first things they told me... you have a lot more internal energy as you are not expending the great deal of energy you normally do digesting food, in spite of the fact I imagine at this point walking 100 meters probably tires you out physically. This internal energy messes with your sleep.

I remember waking up suddenly without any drowsiness and feeling like i'd had 9 hours sleep at like 4am in the morning after 5 hours sleep. The advice I was given by the medical guys is to just roll with it and let your body do what its telling you to. If you need to sleep at midday, go for it. If its getting you up in the middle of the night, then just get up. Just wanted to let you know this is all part of the process.

Are you feeling better now you started consistently taking water in? Well done on making it 14 days too, excellent stuff. Next educate yourself on the process for the gradual re-introduction of food and take it slow over the next couple of weeks and be patient. I know you will likely want to sprint forward with the protocol but show the same discipline you have to get this done as its a vital stage.

And for reference if you are stressing out about how you look right now, I finished my fast down at 140 lbs (I'm 6ft tall) and was weak as a kitten, and my avatar picture was taken about 3 and a half months later. Your body will be primed for all the good stuff you are going to do to it with the protocol in the coming weeks and months, so know it will all work out well. Just keep on keeping on.

[t14]

have decided to keep going to atleast 18 days for now

[Cdsnuts]

have decided to keep going to atleast 18 days for now

I think that if you can do it, it will only serve to benefit you. Good luck.

[t14]

I think that if you can do it, it will only serve to benefit you. Good luck.

never looked forward to eating so much in my life

[t14]

I think I'll be breaking my fast today, heart rate is uncomfortably high, have chest pain and I've been unable to sleep more than 1.5 hours the whole night. Hopefully this has done me alot of good, If the acne rash that covers my chest, back and neck now is any indication of how much junk I've been getting out of my system then I think it has lol. I'm confident I can make 15 days again atleast if I need to do another extended fast but hopefully I won't.

I've read conflicting things about what to break your fast with, beyond the general don't eat too much too fast different people seem to do better with different things so it'll probably be a trial and error thing. I'll probably start with frozen berries and work my way up to full meals from there.

[Cdsnuts]

I think I'll be breaking my fast today, heart rate is uncomfortably high, have chest pain and I've been unable to sleep more than 1.5 hours the whole night. Hopefully this has done me alot of good, If the acne rash that covers my chest, back and neck now is any indication of how much junk I've been getting out of my system then I think it has lol.

I've read conflicting things about what to break your fast with, beyond the general don't eat too much too fast different people seem to do better with different things so it'll probably be a trial and error thing. I'll probably start with frozen berries and work my way up to full meals from there.

A few things:

You always want to try and break your fast during relatively comfortable periods as breaking it in the middle of a cleansing cycle will put your system through double duty. Wait until some symptoms clear before re-introducing nutrition. By adding food at the wrong time, that stuff you're trying to detox will ultimately stick around for longer because you're going to be using energy for digestion again rather then 100% towards elimination.

It's not a trial and error thing as this has been studied and documented in thousands of fasting patients over the course of 30 years or so. You want to break your fast on juice. The same kind of juice you would make during a juice feast. Juice for two days and then start eating RAW fruits and veggies. Stay on the raw for two or three days then introduce steamed veggies. After a week of juice, raw food, steamed veggies, then you can introduce other foods SLOWLY and in small amounts.

You always want to go slow as you don't want to develop intestinal issues by loading up on too much too quick. Go by these tips and go by how you feel.

[t14]

A few things:

You always want to try and break your fast during relatively comfortable periods as breaking it in the middle of a cleansing cycle will put your system through double duty. Wait until some symptoms clear before re-introducing nutrition. By adding food at the wrong time, that stuff you're trying to detox will ultimately stick around for longer because you're going to be using energy for digestion again rather then 100% towards elimination.

It's not a trial and error thing as this has been studied and documented in thousands of fasting patients over the course of 30 years or so. You want to break your fast on juice. The same kind of juice you would make during a juice feast. Juice for two days and then start eating RAW fruits and veggies. Stay on the raw for two or three days then introduce steamed veggies. After a week of juice, raw food, steamed veggies, then you can introduce other foods SLOWLY.

You always want to go slow as you don't want to develop intestinal issues by loading up on too much too quick. Go by these tips and go by how you feel.

what If my physical condition & sleep simply keep getting worse?

[Cdsnuts]

what If my physical condition & sleep simply keep getting worse?

That's the thing....if you fast to "completion" they won't. And this is also why I say "relatively comfortable." If you must break it, then do so on juice and stay on juice until you notice the symptoms drop. Then add in raw foods and eventually steamed.

You'll still continue to detox on juice but it will ease things up a bit because you're giving your body energy without much, if any digestion at all.

Most people won't be able to fast to completion for a variety of reasons, but when you fast to completion you've basically detoxed everything that needs to come out. When this happens, you're symptoms disappear. You're only having symptoms because you're going through a cleansing cycle.

[t14]

That's the thing....if you fast to "completion" they won't. And this is also why I say "relatively comfortable." If you must break it, then do so on juice and stay on juice until you notice the symptoms drop. Then add in raw foods and eventually steamed.

You'll still continue to detox on juice but it will ease things up a bit because you're giving your body energy without much, if any digestion at all.

Most people won't be able to fast to completion for a variety of reasons, but when you fast to completion you've basically detoxed everything that needs to come out. When this happens, you're symptoms disappear. You're only having symptoms because you're going through a cleansing cycle.

okay I'll hang in there for a bit longer and see what happens, do you take magnesium/calcium or salt while fasting?

[t14]

fasting quality of life seems to be improving after adding a few pinches of salt to my water every so often, if this keeps up ill keep pushing the length of my fast as long as I can

[DKnighten]

When I did my first fast, I stopped all kinds of pharms cold turkey. Pain killers, tranquilizers and sleeping pills. I don't recommend doing that nor is it recommended....I didn't tell them I was taking any meds...at that point, I didn't care if I came back from California or not. I was either going to fast and die, or something positive was going to happen....I honestly didn't care at that point. The fast was my hail mary......

It was brutal...those drug detox's alone are horrible let alone when your super detoxing...hell on earth. That's what it was. I was awake for ten days straight until I collapsed. I was literally a zombie.

But what I noticed was when the detox's got really bad....I would reach a point where I thought I was going to lose my shit....and then it would break, or settle down. After these "cleansing episodes" I would notice my urine would stink like chemicals. It was like clock work...Detox, get a bad reaction, feel like I was losing my mind, then calm...then smelly urine...everytime. It came in waves every couple days. Then as I got cleaner, sometimes I would have a few in a day. Then after the worst of it, just every other day or so until I broke the fast. I should have went longer on my first one because I was really fucked, but I was happy to eat after two weeks. I knew right then and there at the 14th day when I was breaking my fast that I was going to have to do another one because I could still tell there was stuff to get out.

The point is, you need to drink water to get this stuff out and have these uncomfortable reactions.....that's the name of the game...it's the whole point of why your fasting. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just do what works.

How were you able to drop your commitments and everything else for that long? Was this water fast expensive? Is this only in California?

[Cdsnuts]

How were you able to drop your commitments and everything else for that long? Was this water fast expensive? Is this only in California?

I was/am self employed. But even if I wasn't, I would have begged, borrowed and stole to get it done.

It was around $130/day. I was there for a month.

There are other fasting centers but the best one imo, is True North.

[DKnighten]

I was/am self employed. But even if I wasn't, I would have begged, borrowed and stole to get it done.

It was around $130/day. I was there for a month.

There are other fasting centers but the best one imo, is True North.

CD, I feel like a juice feast won't cure my body. My hormones are very very fucked up. I feel like a water fast only would benefit me, there's just no way I can do it..
I've still started the juice feast. It tastes horrible.

[Cdsnuts]

CD, I feel like a juice feast won't cure my body. My hormones are very very fucked up. I feel like a water fast only would benefit me, there's just no way I can do it..
I've still started the juice feast. It tastes horrible.

Seems like you have a problem for every solution.....not gonna help you my friend.

EVERYONES hormones were fucked up....it's PFS.....

And you're right....a juice feast won't cure your body. Neither will a water fast. But it will clean you out so that you can start the process of curing your body more easily.

If your juice taste horrible, add more fruit. If it taste bad, you don't have enough sugars in it.....fix it.

[DKnighten]

I have had a horrible reaction to either Betaine HCL or something during the juice feast during the 2 days. My cognitive sides have doubled, and I feel like I am in a dream world. I have had progressive accumulation of fatty, rubbery tissue all over my body. I've searched for hope, that some guys with these physical tissue and total body aromitization symptoms do recover, but I've seen none. My entire endocrine system is unresponsive. I appreciate the outline of the protocol man, my system is just too unstable for anything. I tried to get better man, I asked many questions but I was trying.

[Cdsnuts]

I have had a horrible reaction to either Betaine HCL or something during the juice feast during the 2 days. My cognitive sides have doubled, and I feel like I am in a dream world. I have had progressive accumulation of fatty, rubbery tissue all over my body. I've searched for hope, that some guys with these physical tissue and total body aromitization symptoms do recover, but I've seen none. My entire endocrine system is unresponsive. I appreciate the outline of the protocol man, my system is just too unstable for anything. I tried to get better man, I asked many questions but I was trying.

You don't try.....you just do.

You're simply not following instructions properly.

[DKnighten]

I should have done it sooner man, my body definitely can't handle the juice feast. I can't function.

[DKnighten]

can I talk to you on Skype? I'm bad. If I could talk to you on the phone or something man. I know you have the site but I need help

[Cdsnuts]

I should have done it sooner man, my body definitely can't handle the juice feast. I can't function.

It's called detox my man, and it can be absolutely brutal. But it just shows you have much garbage you have to get out of the way for a proper functioning system. Can you give yourself some down time? You gotta do the cleanse, especially if you're that bad off. It's a must for recovery.

[Cdsnuts]

can I talk to you on Skype? I'm bad. If I could talk to you on the phone or something man. I know you have the site but I need help

My time is very limited and I'm only going to regurgitate everything on the site. Phone calls are expensive. Gotta keep it that way. Nothing personal. I give all the info for free on the site and this forum.

[Cdsnuts]

I have had a horrible reaction to either Betaine HCL or something during the juice feast during the 2 days. My cognitive sides have doubled, and I feel like I am in a dream world. I have had progressive accumulation of fatty, rubbery tissue all over my body. I've searched for hope, that some guys with these physical tissue and total body aromitization symptoms do recover, but I've seen none. My entire endocrine system is unresponsive. I appreciate the outline of the protocol man, my system is just too unstable for anything. I tried to get better man, I asked many questions but I was trying.

And, you shouldn't be taking anything during the cleanse......nothing. Just juice and water.

[DKnighten]

It's the stress of making it all on top of school. There aren't any juice bars near me or anything.

[xxaleksi]

It's the stress of making it all on top of school. There aren't any juice bars near me or anything.

Yeah I had to take a week off when I feasted because I couldn't go to class due to the anxiety and terror I felt. In fact, I could barely leave the house for the first month after crashing.

Four months later, I graduated, and am doing quite a bit better with my PFS. Just keep pushing forward when it's tough man. I felt really bad during the feast too, but after it was complete I felt a big reduction in anxiety, along with a slight reduction in brain fog too. For me, diving in with blind faith has paid off.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I had to take a week off when I feasted because I couldn't go to class due to the anxiety and terror I felt. In fact, I could barely leave the house for the first month after crashing.

Four months later, I graduated, and am doing quite a bit better with my PFS. Just keep pushing forward when it's tough man. I felt really bad during the feast too, but after it was complete I felt a big reduction in anxiety, along with a slight reduction in brain fog too. For me, diving in with blind faith has paid off.

It's difficult to do...the whole blind faith thing, but the ones that do it always get results. The thing now is that there are alot of examples of other people doing it so hopefully that makes it easier for others to trust the process.

How long have you been at it? 100%?

[DKnighten]

CD, what about organic pressed juices sold at grocery stores? They sit in plastic for a while but claim to have no added sugars, etc.

[xxaleksi]

It's difficult to do...the whole blind faith thing, but the ones that do it always get results. The thing now is that there are alot of examples of other people doing it so hopefully that makes it easier for others to trust the process.

How long have you been at it? 100%?

I've been on the protocol 95% since February, and did large parts of it starting in early January. I say I'm doing 95% because I rotate 16 herbs instead of 21, and I don't take all the sleep supplements. The rest is dialed in to the point where I question if I'm even doing anything to recover since it's so second nature, haha.

[xxaleksi]

CD, what about organic pressed juices sold at grocery stores? They sit in plastic for a while but claim to have no added sugars, etc.

yeah would love to know this too. if they're cool for feasting purposes i'd love to do like a month long feast lol just for the benefits. i did a week long one before starting the protocol and making the juice was the worst part of it

[Cdsnuts]

yeah would love to know this too. if they're cool for feasting purposes i'd love to do like a month long feast lol just for the benefits. i did a week long one before starting the protocol and making the juice was the worst part of it

Most of the time these juices are not completely fresh as they don't have a shelf life. They have to add something to them so they keep for longer then 24 hours, which is the longest viable time of fresh made juices. Not too mention the cost. On the feast you have to drink 4-6 quarts daily. Purchasing already made juices is going to be cost prohibitive for most.