5a-DHP

[Atticas]

Dosage is much lower- it's pretty concetrated. The dosage in mg's is on the bottle. It's like the 5a-DHP it comes in a little bottle and is super concentrated per drop.

Hey wait, where is the stuff on his site?

I can't find it...

You're talking about this link, right?

IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals (http://www.idealabsdc.com/lab/)

[t14]

so does this have any advantage over actual allopreg?

[Atticas]

Tubzy!! xD

Where is it on the site man?

I've got the day off today, looking to buy

[Maxout777]

Tubzy!! xD

Where is it on the site man?

I've got the day off today, looking to buy
I'm pretty sure the mix of the two is known as pansterone on the site....Looks to be sold out at the moment.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[theshogun]

Haven't been taking the 5a DHP regularly but I will give it a shot. Gonna take 5mg daily at noon until I run out

[Atticas]

YOOOOOOOOOO, one thing I wanna mention for anyone who reads through these forums often who suffers with sleep problems.

Take 5a-DHP in the morning, and then Glycine with Ashwaghanda Tincture (sold at LostEmpireHerbs.com) at night.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-A-LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE COW MAN, that combo PUTS ME OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. Like HARD. Not waking up for ANYTHING but my alarm. It's awesome

[rmoore]

YOOOOOOOOOO, one thing I wanna mention for anyone who reads through these forums often who suffers with sleep problems.

Take 5a-DHP in the morning, and then Glycine with Ashwaghanda Tincture (sold at LostEmpireHerbs.com) at night.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-A-LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE COW MAN, that combo PUTS ME OUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. Like HARD. Not waking up for ANYTHING but my alarm. It's awesome

What brand and dose of Glycine you take? I just got Ashwaghanda Tincture in along with 9 other of the herbs from Lost Empire. I'm on day 11 of my juice feast and probably go to 21 days and then I will start the herb cycle after I finish my feast.

[Atticas]

What brand and dose of Glycine you take? I just got Ashwaghanda Tincture in along with 9 other of the herbs from Lost Empire. I'm on day 11 of my juice feast and probably go to 21 days and then I will start the herb cycle after I finish my feast.

6 grams before bed!

[Atticas]

Hey you guys.

Ok, so I think the 5a-DHP effect may be wearing off, not doing much, or just not working anymore lol idk.

Last couple of days, I've been walking around with the same kind of PFS genitals, and my skin hasn't improved... actually looks a bit worse, although the dark circles may be getting a little bit smaller.

I've been getting great sleep though and my mental clarity has certainly improved. I attribute that to the extra sleep mostly.. which may be either just the ashwaghanda/glycine combo I've been doing, or a mix of all 3 (5a-DHP, Glycine, Ashwaghanda).

I will also say, my confidence does seem to have increased a bit which is nice.... so idk. Maybe it's working in some ways, and not in others.

If anyone knows where I can find some QUALITY liquid pregnenolone, please let me know. Really wanna include that with my regimen. I'm going on my 3rd year with PFS. THIS SHOULD BE THE YEAR I DEFEAT IT!!

[Swill]

Hey you guys.

Ok, so I think the 5a-DHP effect may be wearing off, not doing much, or just not working anymore lol idk.

Last couple of days, I've been walking around with the same kind of PFS genitals, and my skin hasn't improved... actually looks a bit worse, although the dark circles may be getting a little bit smaller.

I've been getting great sleep though and my mental clarity has certainly improved. I attribute that to the extra sleep mostly.. which may be either just the ashwaghanda/glycine combo I've been doing, or a mix of all 3 (5a-DHP, Glycine, Ashwaghanda).

I will also say, my confidence does seem to have increased a bit which is nice.... so idk. Maybe it's working in some ways, and not in others.

If anyone knows where I can find some QUALITY liquid pregnenolone, please let me know. Really wanna include that with my regimen. I'm going on my 3rd year with PFS. THIS SHOULD BE THE YEAR I DEFEAT IT!!

Always remember bro, you have upswings and downswings on this thing naturally anyway, its all part of the journey.... you may just have shifted from a peak to a trough, so keep with it for a few months and see where it takes you.

[theshogun]

I seem to be having problems with the dropper. I need to squeeze the bottle really hard and even then I can't get a proper drop out. Any idea?

[Cdsnuts]

I seem to be having problems with the dropper. I need to squeeze the bottle really hard and even then I can't get a proper drop out. Any idea?

Maybe the hole is clogged. Try pushing a pin into the dropper.....

[Maxout777]

So pretty much this 5A-DHP has set me back and caused me to crash, it has been 3 years of recovery from PFS and this stuff caused a PFS relapse, stay away.. IHP also had PFS sides from it, hopefully in a couple weeks it will wear off like last time I took it, but it sucks, I regret ever taking this stuff.
Buddy...I've taken as much as 30mg a day with nothing but somewhat positive things to say about it. I'm not saying your full of shit by any means, but if you're doing everything else we advocate on this forum, I highly doubt you would have a full "relapse".

However if you're still drinking alcohol, eating like shit, and not following a strict enough recovery protocol, I could see altering with neurosteroids could cause a major problem. FWIW, I'm running it with my cycle of Androsterone (R-Andro) as we speak and still nothing but good things to say about it at 5mg/day.

[Maxout777]

Also, you may not be experiencing PFS sides if you are running it with Andro, MCI ran it while on masteron and the masteron seems to have prevented PFS sides, when I had the sides, I injected masteron which seemed to reverse the sides to an extent, IHP also had the same sides. You can believe what you want, I am posting this as a warning to everyone else, I don't care to debate my experiences. I do find it interesting how you assume I am drinking alcohol and have a bad diet, are you making money off this stuff or something? Curious how someone's experience would be dismissed, my first post was actually deleted.
I'm not making money off of this stuff, I just don't appreciate sensationalist posts. Literally everyone here that's not a Propecia Help mouth piece has had a good experience with it for the most part. Definitely no relapses.....So for you to fear monger like that you're obviously going to get some push back.

I also now see from your post that you're on a test protocol? You're injecting synthetic hormones into your system and you're only reasoning for your relapse is a 5a reduced compound?

Also if your level of recovery was "way past all of us", wouldn't we be crashing from this compound? I mean I live a normal life too, except I don't crash when taking this. You say you're more recovered than anyone here like it's a type of badge and for you to state this and then say you crashed on 5a-DHP just makes you look full of shit my man, that's all I'm getting at.

[1ReceptorLeft]

I'm not making money off of this stuff, I just don't appreciate sensationalist posts. Literally everyone here that's not a Propecia Help mouth piece has had a good experience with it for the most part. Definitely no relapses.....So for you to fear monger like that you're obviously going to get some push back.

I also now see from your post that you're on a test protocol? You're injecting synthetic hormones into your system and you're only reasoning for your relapse is a 5a reduced compound?

Also if your level of recovery was "way past all of us", wouldn't we be crashing from this compound? I mean I live a normal life too, except I don't crash when taking this. You say you're more recovered than anyone here like it's a type of badge and for you to state this and then say you crashed on 5a-DHP just makes you look full of shit my man, that's all I'm getting at.


"Propecia Help Mouth piece?" Let me tell you who I am, I single handedly turned SolvePFS into a 600+ forum from a 4 person forum after getting banned from PropeciaHelp. I tried to get people to experiment and try different protocols, I helped one guy MCI-BOF to recovery completely, for the last 2 years I have been off the forums as I have been recovered. Yes I am on synthetic hormones which is why I am not on a PFS forum anymore, I am living a normal life. Which is why you guys are here trying to get better with stuff, you can't get past PFS without testosterone I personally believe. IhatePropecia is also recovered, you can read his recovery story, I never posted one.

For the last 2 years we have been working on just getting bigger on test and getting rid of water retention, I have had no more PFS sides. I did not have a full FS relapse, but had PFS sides I have not had in 3 years. I believe the reason I had sides and IHP had sides and you didn't is because you aren't recovered, and since you aren't on testosterone, you are still in a PFS state. In effect you have nothing to lose, we have everything to lose, IHP has been recovered for years and I have been recovered for a couple years now.

I will say that last time we both had PFS sides and when they wore off we had benefits. I am not being a fear monger, but I regret ever taking this stuff unless in a week or 2 I return to normal, even then I regret taking it. I had a girl over, come onto me and I couldn't do anything, had to turn her down. All because of this compound, so yea, call me a fear monger, but the people have a right to know. You can discredit me if you want, but people have a right to know of the risks is all. I am probably the biggest advocate of experimenting there is.

Not here to argue, but to post my experience

[Cdsnuts]

So Im going to nip this one in the bud....quickly.

I've been warned by several members of this forum and members of other forums about this poster and have been sent copies of some of his posts. They are completely long winded and incoherent ramblings that are not based in any kind of logic or shared experiences with most people in this situation. Some of them are down right insane. He's also been banned from Propecia Help for the very same reason.

I like everyone to have a voice, but people have gone out of their way to tell me about this guy...that speaks volumes. That, along with seeing his posts have made it so I don't think he's going to be a good fit around here.

There are plenty of other forums for him to talk about the massive amounts of pharmaceuticals he takes while claiming to be recovered.

Recovery is just that....recovery. It's not something you can "relapse" into unless you take another 5ar inhibitor of which 5a-DHP is NOT.

I'm not going to bother to pick apart his posts because I'd rather put the time towards developing my site. My days of arguing on the internet were left over at PH.

Not only that, but the negative information he posts, which is incorrect, will only serve to hinder new guys coming here to heal themselves in a positive environment. They are under enough duress as it is to have to deal with the ramblings of an obviously disturbed individual.

I don't think it's going to work out 1receptor....

[holyhead]

Hope somebody can solve the fluid retention issue cause it is my main problem now..If I keep swelling feel like I am gonna bust..Not a lot of people get the physical side effects like this from pfs but it is the worst of it all imo..So far nothing has helped the physical aspect and if you didn't get the physical sides please spare me the lecture...

[holyhead]

Dylan didn't recommend anything to me..He told me he was sorry for my condition and had seen it many times before..No one really knows what it is or what is causing all these symptoms..He advises clients to avoid the drug and it should be taken off the market..And there was no treatment or cures for the condition. Very nice guy imo.

[Cdsnuts]

Let's keep this thread On Topic from here on out.

[t14]

Hope somebody can solve the fluid retention issue cause it is my main problem now..If I keep swelling feel like I am gonna bust..Not a lot of people get the physical side effects like this from pfs but it is the worst of it all imo..So far nothing has helped the physical aspect and if you didn't get the physical sides please spare me the lecture...

you really need to make your own thread dude


"Propecia Help Mouth piece?" Let me tell you who I am, I single handedly turned SolvePFS into a 600+ forum from a 4 person forum after getting banned from PropeciaHelp. I tried to get people to experiment and try different protocols, I helped one guy MCI-BOF to recovery completely, for the last 2 years I have been off the forums as I have been recovered. Yes I am on synthetic hormones which is why I am not on a PFS forum anymore, I am living a normal life. Which is why you guys are here trying to get better with stuff, you can't get past PFS without testosterone I personally believe. IhatePropecia is also recovered, you can read his recovery story, I never posted one.

For the last 2 years we have been working on just getting bigger on test and getting rid of water retention, I have had no more PFS sides. I did not have a full FS relapse, but had PFS sides I have not had in 3 years. I believe the reason I had sides and IHP had sides and you didn't is because you aren't recovered, and since you aren't on testosterone, you are still in a PFS state. In effect you have nothing to lose, we have everything to lose, IHP has been recovered for years and I have been recovered for a couple years now.

I will say that last time we both had PFS sides and when they wore off we had benefits. I am not being a fear monger, but I regret ever taking this stuff unless in a week or 2 I return to normal, even then I regret taking it. I had a girl over, come onto me and I couldn't do anything, had to turn her down. All because of this compound, so yea, call me a fear monger, but the people have a right to know. You can discredit me if you want, but people have a right to know of the risks is all. I am probably the biggest advocate of experimenting there is.

Not here to argue, but to post my experience

the rambling and out of control ego aside, I think I'll be waiting longer to try this now

[Cdsnuts]

It's been dealt with and the thread has been cleaned up....sanitized. As you were.....

As a side note in regards to this....I'm all for everyone getting to say their piece and having open and honest discussions. But every once in awhile some one comes along who pushes the envelope.

The problem with the latest banned member of our forum, is that what he was saying was not only dangerous, but just down right incorrect. And it was over several different topics and areas. He said things in such a way and with such passion and belief in his words, that it was enough to make him a threat to someone who is trying to get their bearing through this thing. It's hard enough and there is enough information to take in....correct information, that having to deal with an onslaught of garbage in every thread would only serve to confuse things.

That, and the way in which he went about things....

I had not heard of him until this morning until it was pointed out to me. Since that time he had polluted this thread with bad information and horrible assumptions all while telling everyone he was recovered. The manic tone to his posts, along with 3 Pms to me (telling me that he would pay me for my info because he couldn't put on muscle....which means he's not recovered) and the way he hit me up in the chat box all in a VERY short amount of time...well it all showed, or came acrossed as someone who was a bit unstable, and very, very manic.

To some of you who may think that is the direction you want to go, you're free to follow him where ever he resides. You'd be a fool to do so, but that is your prerogative.

I'll keep this post up until everyone sees it, then it's back to business on this thread....

[jimmyjonas]

Hi guys, this product looks promising, I'm going to give it a go, I saw a guy on Solve PFS who's had some success with relieving numbness from it, same as my problem, in terms of applying the liquid can it be applied to the genital area? Good or bad idea?

Cheers

Jimmy

[Cdsnuts]

So....

Has anyone noticed any other benefits from this or has everything leveled out? I can't say I personally notice much anymore. I notice some effect in the beginning, but other then that, not much for me.

Maybe for guys that are still deficient it would be more effective, but I'd say you can take it or leave it.

[Maxout777]

So....

Has anyone noticed any other benefits from this or has everything leveled out? I can't say I personally notice much anymore. I notice some effect in the beginning, but other then that, not much for me.

Maybe for guys that are still deficient it would be more effective, but I'd say you can take it or leave it.

I notice it a little bit if I dose it in the AM with coffee. Since I've been on cycle this time though the effects have faded or just overshadowed by the Andro.

[Cdsnuts]

Hope somebody can solve the fluid retention issue cause it is my main problem now..If I keep swelling feel like I am gonna bust..Not a lot of people get the physical side effects like this from pfs but it is the worst of it all imo..So far nothing has helped the physical aspect and if you didn't get the physical sides please spare me the lecture...

You have to treat the body as a whole when dealing with this. There are several way's to eliminate fluid retention but rather then work on fixing the symptom, you want to work on fixing the cause.

Do you know what your are to be doing to fix yourself?

If you would like to discuss this though, it would make more sense to start your own thread so that we can keep this one on topic.

[theshogun]

Thanks for banning him CD. He sounds like he is JustQuitDut from solvepfs.com judging by his writing style.

Anyway, I still get the positive mental benefits. Dosing 5mg atm. Still suffer from poor blood flow to genitals apart from that I'm doing well. Packing on muscle and feeling good mentally.
I am playing around with Arginine and Citrulline but I haven't really found anything to permanently improve that negative effect. High dose Tribulus and pumping with the bathmate did work short term though

[t14]

Thanks for banning him CD. He sounds like he is JustQuitDut from solvepfs.com judging by his writing style.

Anyway, I still get the positive mental benefits. Dosing 5mg atm. Still suffer from poor blood flow to genitals apart from that I'm doing well. Packing on muscle and feeling good mentally.
I am playing around with Arginine and Citrulline but I haven't really found anything to permanently improve that negative effect. High dose Tribulus and pumping with the bathmate did work short term though

oh I've read some of that dudes posts and god he was a tool lol..

anyway what mental benefits do you get exactly?

[TubZy]

Hey guys, returning from a long vacation where I was out of the country with spotty connection.

[TubZy]

The fact that 5a-DHP made that guy "crash" (whatever that means?) after 3 years is beyond me yet masteron which is SUPPRESSIVE didn't "crash" him when 5a-DHP actually stimulates the bodies naturals pathways instead.

[Cdsnuts]

The fact that 5a-DHP made that guy "crash" (whatever that means?) after 3 years is beyond me yet masteron which is SUPPRESSIVE didn't "crash" him when 5a-DHP actually stimulates the bodies naturals pathways instead.

He's been causing nothing but problems since he came here. He was banned, then he rejoined under a differnet IP address and then threatened to bad mouth me at every turn as to negatively effect my new venture. He obviously has nothing better to do with his time. So many people were complaining about him and I can see why. He told me he has several different screen names here and he will keep coming back, over and over again. Those are not the actions of someone who is recovered and healthy. He doesn't seem to realize his actions speak volumes about his current condition and despite what he says about me, most people will be able to see through the type of person he is.

He also doesn't realize that I've saved all his PM's which incriminate him. This is nothing but a waste of time. I told him in so many words he can bad mouth me all he want's as I have nothing to hide and the help that I've given to the people that choose this path are self evident. I just don't understand why some people choose to spend their time doing this. It serves no purpose for the greater good whatsoever. It's just pointless, un-needed drama.

My time is much better utilized working on my site which will give the information freely to people that so desperately need it. This is the type of stuff that goes on on other forums, not here. It's negative and trivial and does nothing but aggravate people.

The fact that I even have to spend time making this post just goes to show what a waste it is.

When you see him, let me know and his IP addresses will be banned, one by one.

I also think that he won't be able to help himself but post again either on the board or through PM's. He's already been called out to me by several people that knew him from other forums. I've been told that he was going to do EXACTLY what he did, and he did it like clockwork.(signing up under another screen name) He doesn't get that people know him and can read him like a book.

Such a waste of time for everyone.

[jimmyjonas]

Anyone else have issues with trying to order from the site? Tried on phone and on Mac but bouncing back to info about 5A DHP rather than going to checkout, any way round it?

Cheers

Jimmy

[theshogun]

oh I've read some of that dudes posts and god he was a tool lol..

anyway what mental benefits do you get exactly?

I felt more confident and social. Just was in a better mood and it felt like my brain was working on full capacity again. It felt similar to caffeine/theanine combo.
I must say though that I have quit weed cold turkey the week before and also started NoFap that week. Additionally I took 100mg pregnenolone and 5mg oral DHEA as well.

I can't say the effect came from just 5a-DHP alone but rather I believe it is a cumulative effect. I noticed I was more eloquent and I could speak from a deeper place in my body thus my voice was deeper.
I noticed girls smiling at me/checking me out throughout the week too which culminated in a friend of my sister who is 5 years older than me hitting on me a lot at a party and touching my muscles constantly. I didn't fuck her though because my sister would probably kill me. Still, it felt good.

[Hulk Smash]

If anything all this guy has done is confirm that Cd's recovery is the real deal.

His mind/body hasn't healed, hes just been masking symptoms. If he were somewhat healed, he would have a normal reaction.

I've seen nothing but positive reactions to 5a-dhp from recovered and recovering guys following the regimen.

This just motivates me more and affirms my belief that recovery is real and possible no matter what anyone says.

[Cdsnuts]

You should have some believe that recovery is real in the first place. I say to people all the time don't take my word for it but just do these things and see for yourself. Biggest mistake people make is not giving it enough time or making it a permanent lifestyle change

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DrivenToRecover]

You should have some believe that recovery is real in the first place. I say to people all the time don't take my word for it but just do these things and see for yourself. Biggest mistake people make is not giving it enough time or making it a permanent lifestyle change

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

X2.
It is sort of hard to just trust text on a page online that you can get better...just have enough faith until you get a taste of it for yourself & after that it should be downhill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

He's been causing nothing but problems since he came here. He was banned, then he rejoined under a differnet IP address and then threatened to bad mouth me at every turn as to negatively effect my new venture. He obviously has nothing better to do with his time. So many people were complaining about him and I can see why. He told me he has several different screen names here and he will keep coming back, over and over again. Those are not the actions of someone who is recovered and healthy. He doesn't seem to realize his actions speak volumes about his current condition and despite what he says about me, most people will be able to see through the type of person he is.

He also doesn't realize that I've saved all his PM's which incriminate him. This is nothing but a waste of time. I told him in so many words he can bad mouth me all he want's as I have nothing to hide and the help that I've given to the people that choose this path are self evident. I just don't understand why some people choose to spend their time doing this. It serves no purpose for the greater good whatsoever. It's just pointless, un-needed drama.

My time is much better utilized working on my site which will give the information freely to people that so desperately need it. This is the type of stuff that goes on on other forums, not here. It's negative and trivial and does nothing but aggravate people.

The fact that I even have to spend time making this post just goes to show what a waste it is.

When you see him, let me know and his IP addresses will be banned, one by one.

I also think that he won't be able to help himself but post again either on the board or through PM's. He's already been called out to me by several people that knew him from other forums. I've been told that he was going to do EXACTLY what he did, and he did it like clockwork.(signing up under another screen name) He doesn't get that people know him and can read him like a book.

Such a waste of time for everyone.

He is probably just mad that Solve PFS is failing with members now since he claiming to "grow" it so big where it's the same people complaining over and over but no ideas and supplements to try anymore. Many people have ventured here now from Solve PFS since we are actually making an impact and experimenting with new things that actually have some sort of positive impact.

Many of the members that came from there have also bad mouthed it due to how negative and worthless it is both publicly and to me via PM so I'm not surprised about how upset he is. He should get over it though.

[TubZy]

I felt more confident and social. Just was in a better mood and it felt like my brain was working on full capacity again. It felt similar to caffeine/theanine combo.
I must say though that I have quit weed cold turkey the week before and also started NoFap that week. Additionally I took 100mg pregnenolone and 5mg oral DHEA as well.

I can't say the effect came from just 5a-DHP alone but rather I believe it is a cumulative effect. I noticed I was more eloquent and I could speak from a deeper place in my body thus my voice was deeper.
I noticed girls smiling at me/checking me out throughout the week too which culminated in a friend of my sister who is 5 years older than me hitting on me a lot at a party and touching my muscles constantly. I didn't fuck her though because my sister would probably kill me. Still, it felt good.


Have you noticed a skin improvement effect with doses of 100mg+ preg? Caffeine with virtually help with anything you pair it with. It also increases progesterone concentration in the brain just make sure if you do supplement with it always with food and sugar (caffeine lowers blood sugar) to avoid stress response (which could make you feel worse).

Another one of my favorite combos is 500mg of niacinamide + 200mg of caffeine. The dopamine boost from the caffeine and the GABA and androgenic increase from the niacinamide.

If you can get your hands on T3/cytomel (or good quality NDT), you can bypass all of the downstream stuff and just supplement with that since an increase in thyroid hormone will increase pregnenolone and of course all the downstream anti aging/androgenic hormones (DHEA, progesterone etc.)

If you wanted to try boosting thyroid naturally, try supplementing with iodine, selenium and vit D3 and see how you feel.

[TubZy]

Oh and for Idea Labs there are two sites really one for regular supplements and one for research chems for those who kept asking earlier. The mobile site is tricky sometimes so I just use the desktop version.

IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery (http://www.idealabsdc.com/)
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals (http://www.idealabsdc.com/lab/)

[theshogun]

Have you noticed a skin improvement effect with doses of 100mg+ preg? Caffeine with virtually help with anything you pair it with. It also increases progesterone concentration in the brain just make sure if you do supplement with it always with food and sugar (caffeine lowers blood sugar) to avoid stress response (which could make you feel worse).

Another one of my favorite combos is 500mg of niacinamide + 200mg of caffeine. The dopamine boost from the caffeine and the GABA and androgenic increase from the niacinamide.

If you can get your hands on T3/cytomel (or good quality NDT), you can bypass all of the downstream stuff and just supplement with that since an increase in thyroid hormone will increase pregnenolone and of course all the downstream anti aging/androgenic hormones (DHEA, progesterone etc.)

If you wanted to try boosting thyroid naturally, try supplementing with iodine, selenium and vit D3 and see how you feel.


My skin seems to be getting better, yes. I just got some more Pregnenolone and will continue with 100mg Preg/5mg DHEA/5mg 5a-DHP.
My multi mineral contains both iodine and selenium. I take extra D3 too.
I have some additional iodine drops and selenium tablets but haven't used them at all lately.

[TubZy]

My skin seems to be getting better, yes. I just got some more Pregnenolone and will continue with 100mg Preg/5mg DHEA/5mg 5a-DHP.
My multi mineral contains both iodine and selenium. I take extra D3 too.
I have some additional iodine drops and selenium tablets but haven't used them at all lately.

Cool- when I started supplementing preg at doses at 100mg or higher I noticed my skin improve for sure. I didn't really get the effect at doses under 100mg though. Regardless of what you do, supplementing preg with anything pro thyroid will help since preg activates the bile receptor that does the conversion of T4 into T3.

Niacinamide has a similar effect too at doses of 500mg or higher but I think due to the anti inflammatory and immunomodulating effects.

[Atticas]

Hey you guys, my bad for being absent as of late.

Been talking to a girl (now girlfriend) and so my mind's been a bit off of this whole PFS deal which has probably been a blessing to be honest...

Now that she's around though, I'm definitely even more encouraged to fight off the syndrome this year.

CDN and TubZy, so now that we know about 5a-DHP and its effects, as well as pregnenolone and its effects, what would you guys think should be a regular everyday protocol for fighting this off alongside the herbs?

I know the normal things I wanna stick to are drinking water, taking D-3 supplementation (since I'm not getting enough sun with my job), meditation and cold showers. Everything else aside, those things all seem to help against what we're going through.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, specific questions to TubZy...

I've got some DHEA pills downstairs I've had for a whilllle, just haven't used in forever cuz I wasn't sure exactly what they did nor if they were actually helping. Would you recommend me taking these while I've got them with preg and 5a-DHP?

And I still gotta ask you as well, where would I find a good source of pregnenolone? I don't see it on the IdeaLabs page.

[Cdsnuts]

Hey you guys, my bad for being absent as of late.

Been talking to a girl (now girlfriend) and so my mind's been a bit off of this whole PFS deal which has probably been a blessing to be honest...

Now that she's around though, I'm definitely even more encouraged to fight off the syndrome this year.

CDN and TubZy, so now that we know about 5a-DHP and its effects, as well as pregnenolone and its effects, what would you guys think should be a regular everyday protocol for fighting this off alongside the herbs?

I know the normal things I wanna stick to are drinking water, taking D-3 supplementation (since I'm not getting enough sun with my job), meditation and cold showers. Everything else aside, those things all seem to help against what we're going through.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, specific questions to TubZy...

I've got some DHEA pills downstairs I've had for a whilllle, just haven't used in forever cuz I wasn't sure exactly what they did nor if they were actually helping. Would you recommend me taking these while I've got them with preg and 5a-DHP?

And I still gotta ask you as well, where would I find a good source of pregnenolone? I don't see it on the IdeaLabs page.

My answer is going to be the same as it's been for years. Nothings changed and the results speak for themselves. If you find 5a-DHP helpful, then keep taking it. The only thing you need is consistency and time, not to mention patience.

[rmoore]

Hey Atticas. Here is the link to Preg and also all of Ray Peat supplements. Hope you didn't mind Tubzy.

Pregnenolone (https://www.healthnatura.com/pregnenolone-powder-s/1828.htm)

[TubZy]

Hey Atticas. Here is the link to Preg and also all of Ray Peat supplements. Hope you didn't mind Tubzy.

Pregnenolone (https://www.healthnatura.com/pregnenolone-powder-s/1828.htm)

Thanks I was just going to say the same thing.

@atticas in terms of DHEA you can try it if you want just don't use over 5mg per dose and don't exceed a total of 15mg a day. Any more than that will most likely be converted to estrogen. Start low, for me I have lowish cortisol so taking too much DHEA makes me feel worse because my cortisol tanks since DHEA has strong cortisol antagonism. For preg, I use big doses so basically anything over 100mg. I even went up to 500mg in one dose and no ill effects. Any supplement you take with preg will amplify the androgenic effects especially DHEA, thyroid (t3), androsterone (R-andro) etc.

Ideal labs has a preg+dhea supplement called pansterone. You need to go to research chem page not the supplement page of ideal labs. It's under the same list as 5a-DHP. I don't use it b/c the preg dose is really low and I like high doses of preg better so I prefer the raw powder.

[TubZy]

Also, I have been talking with Haidut about possibly getting 5AR powder, but it looks like no new update except he is the process of coming out with some new other stuff.

Here was his response, seems pretty interesting and will most likely be trying.

"I am working on a progesterone-based steroid but the vendor just told me they are out of stock so they have to synthesize it from scratch. If it works as planned it should be a direct precursor to testosterone - i.e. only one step away from T. And since it does not convert into estrogen AND also inhibits aromatase, that would be one hell of a supplement. Much better than 20a-DHP. Also working on a few very unique supplements that act as dopamine agonists, inhibit HDAC (anti-cancer) and lower cortisol by inhibiting 11b-HSD1. So, if everything pans out as planned I should have 2-3 new supplements within a few weeks.

Can't disclose before it is launched, sorry. Let's just say it is similar to medroxyprogesterone but much better and without side effects. And unlike medroxyprogesterone, this one should convert into actual testosterone. The vendors are all American, I do everything possible to avoid depending on a foreign supplier. "

[Atticas]

TubZy, one more thing i wanted to ask you, just because I never have...

Are you one of the recover-ers on this page, or are you just really close to recovering?

[Atticas]

My answer is going to be the same as it's been for years. Nothings changed and the results speak for themselves. If you find 5a-DHP helpful, then keep taking it. The only thing you need is consistency and time, not to mention patience.

Thank you for answering.

Yea, the only reason I ask is because I thought I had read someone saying to watch out for what herbs you're taking while on 5a-DHP due to either lowering cortisol too much or something... idk.

Alright, well I'm gonna start up on 5mg DHEA/5 drops of 5a-DHP/and 100 mg pregnenolone every morning. Thanks for the link you guys. Gonna buy that tonight. Will also keep cycling the herbs.

[bizzbee]

Is the DHEA we're talking about here the one you can get over the counter at any supplement/nutrition store? If it is, would it be as effective as the DHEA derivatives in these DHT pro hormones in helping to convert to DHT? Also, what's the deal with preg? Why would we want to take it?



Thank you for answering.

Yea, the only reason I ask is because I thought I had read someone saying to watch out for what herbs you're taking while on 5a-DHP due to either lowering cortisol too much or something... idk.

Alright, well I'm gonna start up on 5mg DHEA/5 drops of 5a-DHP/and 100 mg pregnenolone every morning. Thanks for the link you guys. Gonna buy that tonight. Will also keep cycling the herbs.

[TubZy]

TubZy, one more thing i wanted to ask you, just because I never have...

Are you one of the recover-ers on this page, or are you just really close to recovering?

I would say like 85% recovered. My cortisol levels fully haven't returned to normal yet (lowish side) so they fluctuate a lot day to day depending on stress etc. which can present some symptoms. My stress tolerance and also being able to go longer without eating isn't fully recovered yet though which has a lot to do with proper cortisol response. It is because of my thyroid though -once it's fully back in order my cortisol levels should balance back out. My TSH was elevated (around 3.2) last test I'm trying to get it under 1 which is ideal hence why I decided to add T3 in the mix for a bit a noticed a significant improvement which made me confirm it's definitely the thyroid.

Other than that I feel really good sexually and 5a-DHP helped a lot mentally. Pregnenolone and 5a-DHP both raise metabolism so they help with thyroid (and lowering TSH) indirectly.

[TubZy]

Is the DHEA we're talking about here the one you can get over the counter at any supplement/nutrition store? If it is, would it be as effective as the DHEA derivatives in these DHT pro hormones in helping to convert to DHT? Also, what's the deal with preg? Why would we want to take it?

Yeah, but the DHEA is sold in like monster doses (25mg+) which will most likely convert to estrogen causing more issues. Like I said earlier, if you want to try it out, start with preg only first. You are still going to get DHEA from the downstream conversion of supplementing preg. Adding small amounts of DHEA (5mg) w/ the preg will help guide the conversion more androgenic like DHT.

Preg good for everything pretty much. Will backfill any hormones missing (allopreg, progesterone, DHEA etc.) and also increases thyroid and metabolism. The one thing though is make sure your cholesterol is normal or normal-high b/c that is what both preg and thyroid use as fuel (along with glucose/sugar). So if you have low cholesterol and take thyroid or preg you are most likely going to feel worse b/c your body has no fuel (cholesterol) to make hormones from. Preg and thyroid will lower cholesterol hence why people with so called "high" cholesterol really just have a metabolism issues most likely hypothyroidism.

R-andro (androsterone) was actually used decades back as a cholesterol drug before statins took over due to it's ability to act like thyroid hormone in the body. And of course androsterone is a precursor to DHT.

[DrivenToRecover]

I would say like 85% recovered. My cortisol levels fully haven't returned to normal yet (lowish side) so they fluctuate a lot day to day depending on stress etc. which can present some symptoms. My stress tolerance and also being able to go longer without eating isn't fully recovered yet though which has a lot to do with proper cortisol response. It is because of my thyroid though -once it's fully back in order my cortisol levels should balance back out. My TSH was elevated (around 3.2) last test I'm trying to get it under 1 which is ideal hence why I decided to add T3 in the mix for a bit a noticed a significant improvement which made me confirm it's definitely the thyroid.

Other than that I feel really good sexually and 5a-DHP helped a lot mentally. Pregnenolone and 5a-DHP both raise metabolism so they help with thyroid (and lowering TSH) indirectly.

Do you have specific things you do to raise cortisol back up that isn't a part of the normal routine?

I finally was able to completely quit taking my prednisone and I've felt pretty tired for the last day or two.
Prednisone lowers your cortisol production & I was on since early September.

[TubZy]

Do you have specific things you do to raise cortisol back up that isn't a part of the normal routine?

I finally was able to completely quit taking my prednisone and I've felt pretty tired for the last day or two.
Prednisone lowers your cortisol production & I was on since early September.

Yeah, thyroid (T3) and preg taken together. Thyroid taken alone potentially lower cortisol in some cases due how it accelerate it's excretion out of the body quicker. Add preg with the T3 dose (or NDT) will ensure proper cortisol metabolism (without letting it drop too low). In the 1940's, preg was actually the primary treatment for rheumatoid arthritis until hydrocortisone was discovered.

Caffeine/coffee can help bring up low cortisol too. Just take it with food and sugar so you avoid a bad stress response. Also, take it in the morning so help promote the body's proper circadian rhythm too.

Also just be careful the other supps you are taking aren't strong cortisol antagonist which could make you feel worse.

Avoid DHEA, though that will make matters worse in pretty much any dose since DHEA has strong cortisol antagonism.

Yeah, prednisone is crap. Stuff is like 10x more potent than the body's natural cortisol which can lead to the bad side effects.

[Cdsnuts]

Driven...I think because of your situation you should have full disclosure here so that the advice given can be processed more effectively. I'm not sure if you've gotten into the full details of your situation nor do you have the desire to? I'm just saying that maybe putting all the cards on the table would be the best for you in regards to getting the best information you can possibly get?

[DrivenToRecover]

Driven...I think because of your situation you should have full disclosure here so that the advice given can be processed more effectively. I'm not sure if you've gotten into the full details of your situation nor do you have the desire to? I'm just saying that maybe putting all the cards on the table would be the best for you in regards to getting the best information you can possibly get?

Absolutely man. My first post here disclosed everything for that very reason.

Hi (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3079-hi.html)

That's why at every turn I have to ask extra questions and haven't been able to follow everything in the protocol 100%

[Cdsnuts]

Absolutely man. My first post here disclosed everything for that very reason.

Hi (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3079-hi.html)

That's why at every turn I have to ask extra questions and haven't been able to follow everything in the protocol 100%

Ok....cool. I think that was the best thing you could have done.

Edit: I must say, after reading that, you're a trooper man. It's gonna take alot more balls then just getting over fin, and that's saying something!

[DrivenToRecover]

Ok....cool. I think that was the best thing you could have done.

Yeah for sure...Nobody really knows though how the other issues I have relate to pfs though.

This whole thing has been a ton of insight to how fucked the medical system is. I have a different doctor for each of those issues, and none of them treats the body as a whole

[DrivenToRecover]

Ok....cool. I think that was the best thing you could have done.

Edit: I must say, after reading that, you're a trooper man. It's gonna take alot more balls then just getting over fin, and that's saying something!

I appreciate it man.

[TubZy]

Just to add, the stuff I suggest is not only for PFS but just as a general healthy lifestyle (anti aging, pro T, pro DHT, pro thyroid etc.) Just like how CD's herbs are good regardless which condition you are treating and whether or not you recover from PFS or not still beneficial to take for the rest of your life anyways.

[TubZy]

Since I keep getting PM's about 5a-DHP and neurosteroids check out this chart it explains everything. Other two areas would be to check out 5a-DHDOC and 5a-DHP which are also the two other that are 5 alpha reduced (besides 5a-DHP). Why niacinamide is suggested is because if you notice the conversion ratios of the steroids it requires (NAD) niacinamide increases raises NAD and consequently the NAD/NADH ratio.

A New Look at the 5Reductase Inhibitor Finasteride - Finn - 2006 - CNS Drug Reviews - Wiley Online Library (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1527-3458.2006.00053.x/pdf)

http://i.imgur.com/KTLrKwB.png


Pregnenolone/progesterone and metabolism

Activation of Pregnane X Receptor by Pregnenolone 16 α-carbonitrile Prevents High-Fat Diet-Induced Obesity in AKR/J Mice (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3377726/)



Preg/progesterone are both agonists of the AR receptor (which could also be why ppl get sides from RU)

DEFINE_ME_WA (http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(13)02178-2/fulltext)



Allopreg and neurosteroids

Sex-dependent effect of a low neurosteroid environment and intrauterine growth restriction on foetal guinea pig brain development (http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/208/3/301.full)

In this study, the chronic administration of finasteride during late gestation was successful in markedly reducing allopregnanolone concentrations in the foetal guinea pig brain. It has been proposed that this late gestation reduction in foetal brain allopregnanolone may mimic the change in brain neurosteroid concentration that occurs when a foetus is born preterm and the placenta, as a major source of progesterone, an important precursor of allopregnanolone, is prematurely removed (Hirst et al. 2006). The ability of the preterm infant to synthesise important neurosteroids independently of placentally derived precursors may be limited and the effect of this decline in endogenous steroids on preterm ex utero brain development may influence the vulnerability of the preterm neonatal brain to injury.



The Dark Side of 5α-Reductase Inhibitors' Therapy: Sexual Dysfunction, High Gleason Grade Prostate Cancer and Depression (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4064044/)

It has recently been shown that patients who had been treated with finasteride have reduced or undetectable levels of neuroactive steroids in their cerebro-spinal fluid and plasma, and exhibited higher levels of precursor steroids [75]. This observation strongly suggests that 5α-RIs have a deleterious effect on the biosynthesis and function of neurosteroids in the central nervous system. Finasteride treatment resulted in decreased levels of 5α-DHT and 3α, 5α-tetrahydroprogesterone (AP) and increased levels of testosterone supporting the hypothesis that deleterious effects of finasteride may be persistent or irreversible. This may explain some of the noted symptoms such as anxiety, depression and suicide in patients who have been treated with finasteride [76].

Neurosteroid synthesis in the hippocampus is suggested to be critical for neuroplasticity in the brain [84]. Inhibition of 5α-R by finasteride is thought to contribute to reduced neuroplasticity due to structural changes resulting from inhibition of neurogenesis in the hippocampus. Finasteride treatment in mice showed decreased cell proliferation in the hippocampus, suggesting that inhibitors of 5α-R blocks neurogenesis

The neuroprotective effect of AP was further illustrated during injury to the rat hippocampus slices induced by tributyltin treatment, which resulted in significant cell death. Administration of progesterone (P) with finasteride showed similar cell death to that induced by tributyltin treatment, in the various regions of the hippocampus. In contrast, P treatment without finasteride provided a protective effect. This is attributed to the conversion of P to 5α-DHP by 5α-Rs and to AP by 3α-HSD. To confirm that this is due to the neuroprotective effect of AP, the latter was administered with or without finasteride. While the tributyltin induced cell death was significant, administration of AP with and without finasteride produced a markedly protective effect as assessed by the reduced cell death [83]. These findings suggest that 5α-Rs play a pivotal role in neuroprotection.

5α-R reaction is the rate limiting step in the conversion of testosterone, progesterone, cortisol, corticosterone, and DOC into their respective 5α-dihydro-deratitves, which serve as precursors for 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which transforms such precursors into their respective neurosteroids (androstanediol, allopregnanolone [AP], tetrahydrocortisol, tetrahdyrocorticosterone, and tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone) (Fig. 1) [1,2]. All three isoforms of 5α-R are expressed in the various regions of brain and are thought to be critical for brain development since fetal brain express high concentrations of 5α-R [1,2].

It has been reported that AP levels were significantly decreased in postmortem human brains of Alzheimer disease (AD) patients [86]. An inverse correlation was noted between AP levels and the degree of neurological degeneration in pathological section of AD patient [86]. One of the interesting findings was that pregnenolone levels were greater in the temporal cortex of AD patients suggesting that this may be a compensating mechanism for reduced 5α-R activity. We speculate that 5α-RIs may contribute to reduced levels of neurosteroids in the CNS and this may enhance the progression of neurodegenerative disease, such as AD.

[TubZy]

And the worst study of them all...look at allopreg..holy shit

http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf

http://i.imgur.com/bgT4aUv.jpg

[Hulk Smash]

Is preg really needed? Or is herbs/training/diet/time enough?

[TubZy]

Is preg really needed? Or is herbs/training/diet/time enough?

Depends on how bad of shape you are in especially mentally.

[bizzbee]

How do you feel when you take preg?


Depends on how bad of shape you are in especially mentally.

[TubZy]

How do you feel when you take preg?

Good, all around but big time for sexual function both mentally and physically. The other reason I take it is because it's the safest. The body will put it where it needs regardless of you knowing exactly what "hormone" you are lacking.

[bizzbee]

Thanks, I might just try some myself. The pro hormones give me headaches and are too suppressive.

[Konflict]

I think I may have permanently inhibited my Aromatase. I'm an ex fin/saw palmetto user and was taking vitamin E mixed tocopherols and doing a very low carb diet. I'm experiencing all sides of low E and they're not subsiding even after dropping the vitamin and stopping the diet. Idk what to do my body is severely dehydrated, excessive urination, constipation, bones and joints cracking and painful, insomnia, bad brain fog, depression. Any advice?

[DrivenToRecover]

I think I may have permanently inhibited my Aromatase. I'm an ex fin/saw palmetto user and was taking vitamin E mixed tocopherols and doing a very low carb diet. I'm experiencing all sides of low E and they're not subsiding even after dropping the vitamin and stopping the diet. Idk what to do my body is severely dehydrated, excessive urination, constipation, bones and joints cracking and painful, insomnia, bad brain fog, depression. Any advice?

Relax man. There's no way those two things did permanent damage to you.

Doing keto can mess with your electrolyte balance when you cut carbs and piss everything out. It made me feel similar to what you are describing temporarily.

Eat foods with plenty of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Go to a drugstore and buy yourself a pedialyte.

[Konflict]

Relax man. There's no way those two things did permanent damage to you.

Doing keto can mess with your electrolyte balance when you cut carbs and piss everything out. It made me feel similar to what you are describing temporarily.

Eat foods with plenty of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Go to a drugstore and buy yourself a pedialyte.


Thanks for the reply man. I don't want to come off as Whiny or anything I'm just concerned and scared because these side effects aren't going away even after a week since changing my diet up, in fact they're speeding up. Like my body is actually losing fat and water at a pretty rapid pace. Just had some blood work today but being a past fin user they don't always tell the whole story.

How long did it take for your sides to go away after experiencing them? I also though maybe it's candida overgrowth or something along the lines of hyperparathyroidism or symptoms relate to both of them.

[Konflict]

Also, the doctor thought I was looney and prescribed me Trazodone.....I don't want to take it won't it decrease my testosterone? It's an alpha blocker. Would that potentially increase my Estrogen levels?

[Konflict]

What was your diet like (or was it a supplement?) you were taking that made you feel these symptoms? I was actually on a low carb diet and that made me feel these symptoms, a couple days it would resolve so now I'm more balanced and symptoms are still increasing. The bone cracking/pain, inability to hold water and constipation are god awful. It also gave me depression....think whatever is going on has lowered the hell out of my serotonin. I'll be getting the blood work back later today to see if anything makes sense. Just have this dressed feeling I was eating so low carb that it damaged my thyroid receptors to the pituitary.

[Konflict]

I'm going to be adding preg to my routine and also 5a-DHP if Australian customs allow, will report back with how I go.

Those are 2 things I'm going to take of my doctor prescribes the preg....what kind of diet would you recommend for now, just staining balanced with low sugar? I need to get back to the gym too I been out the last 2 weeks because of the pain/tingling.

[Cdsnuts]

I think I may have permanently inhibited my Aromatase. I'm an ex fin/saw palmetto user and was taking vitamin E mixed tocopherols and doing a very low carb diet. I'm experiencing all sides of low E and they're not subsiding even after dropping the vitamin and stopping the diet. Idk what to do my body is severely dehydrated, excessive urination, constipation, bones and joints cracking and painful, insomnia, bad brain fog, depression. Any advice?
And please just don't jump on an existing thread with content that has nothing to do with the original post. If you'd like advice start your own thread as it's disrespectful to the people that are following this one

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Did a full write-up on allopreg if any you are interested

Allopregnanolone - How to Increase the 5-Alpha-Reduced Allopreg - Anabolic Apex (http://anabolicapex.com/2017/01/30/allopregnanolone/)

[DrivenToRecover]

Did a full write-up on allopreg if any you are interested

Allopregnanolone - How to Increase the 5-Alpha-Reduced Allopreg - Anabolic Apex (http://anabolicapex.com/2017/01/30/allopregnanolone/)

Good read.

The time/effort you put in to share good info with people always amazes me lol. glad to have you around.

[TubZy]

Good read.

The time/effort you put in to share good info with people always amazes me lol. glad to have you around.

Thanks man....haha

[5 alpha victim]

Hello Swolesource

For the sake of working a little more on some of the mental part, I took a few months off from all Internet forums. I pretty much left off after the good results I got from Randro and have been playing catch up on this whole 5a-DHP thing. As much as I liked this forum I do not remember this being such a friendly forum for PFS people and now it's like completely different.

Tubzy your posts are probable the all around most helpful posts I have ever read on any of these forums.  Not only are you giving out helpful information you are doing it in a nice drama free I expect nothing in return just trying to be helpful type of way. Your info is awesome.

After reading this 5a-DHP thread and Haidut's 5a-DHP thread on Ray Peat it makes sense to try to increase allopregnanolone seeing that at least one study has shown that it's a neurosteroid that has been left atered by DHT inhibitors. I'm a big want to see it on paper type of guy which is one more reason why I find your posts helpful seeing that you take the time to research and post this stuff. The more thought I put into trying to fix the mental part that English is big on the more I realize how messed up mentally I really am from this lol. With that said I feel like this is a perfect time to add in the 5a-DHP seeing that it sounds as if it can help out in this department so I just ordered mine. I plan on trying to ask a couple of questions but I don't want this post being crazy long and I have a little bit of a wait before I get my order from idealabs anyway.

Thanks for posting all of this info. I hope you guys continue to get positive results from this and can't wait to try it.

[5 alpha victim]

5aDHP arrived today.

I decided on 5mg per day. My plan is to take 5mg in water or dropping directly in mouth for the next thirty days and will adjust dosage accordingly. All I noticed so far is I'm feeling the released calm almost drowsy feeling pretty fast after taking it. About thirty minutes after taking it.

Only problem so far is that I'm finding it a little difficult to know for sure that the drops coming out of the bottle are not to big. Each drop seems to struggle coming out of bottle.

[TubZy]

5aDHP arrived today.

I decided on 5mg per day. My plan is to take 5mg in water or dropping directly in mouth for the next thirty days and will adjust dosage accordingly. All I noticed so far is I'm feeling the released calm almost drowsy feeling pretty fast after taking it. About thirty minutes after taking it.

Only problem so far is that I'm finding it a little difficult to know for sure that the drops coming out of the bottle are not to big. Each drop seems to struggle coming out of bottle.

Cool. If you find it too relaxing, take it with caffeine or preworkout etc. that is what a lot of us have switched too. They works in synergy since they both increase 5AR, DHT, progesterone etc. but caffeine raises dopamine and 5a-dhp raises GABA so a nice balance. Do you live in a cold area? It's tocopherols and MCT oil, so once it gets to room temp the drops should come out easy. I had the same issue when I first got mine as it was sitting in the cold mailbox.

[bruschi11]

Cool. If you find it too relaxing, take it with caffeine or preworkout etc. that is what a lot of us have switched too. They works in synergy since they both increase 5AR, DHT, progesterone etc. but caffeine raises dopamine and 5a-dhp raises GABA so a nice balance. Do you live in a cold area? It's tocopherols and MCT oil, so once it gets to room temp the drops should come out easy. I had the same issue when I first got mine as it was sitting in the cold mailbox.

Tubzy, we have any evidence 5a-dhp increases 5ar activity anywhere?

Massive dose (broken bottle ended up with a ton on my arms and just rubbed it all in like an asshole) caused a major libido crash and definite prostate pain. Definitely increased progesterone big time.

It happened it's overwith. I'm planning a major high dose protodioscin tribulus run similar to that of APR1989 and Hopingformore (tribulus recoveries). Will be including a lot of CD's plan with this trib run, but going to give this a shot to turn back on AR receptors/ 5ar2. I just don't want 5a-dhp to mess with 5ar at all here. Might put it away during this run.

[bruschi11]

Never mind Tubzy, I found some stuff on it on Ray Peat. No need to provide links or anything.

But yea- I don't know. For someone only a couple months into Fin syndrome and for someone who only used it a very short time, I feel like its worth it to try the protodioscin run.

I really like the idea going high dose then dropping it and then taking a couple weeks off. Reminds me of how I used to use hydrocortisone when I had adrenal fatigue. This use of hydrocortisone in this fashion brought back my body's manufacturing of cortisol. I figure why not give it a shot for 5ar2 and/or the AR.

Being on TRT beforehand and afterward, I know that something major changed in my body. The androgen (t cream and cyp as I tried both) just has say 1/10th the effect it used to have on my body. Going lower dose (now on HCG mono) I am feeling a bit better, but the body SHOULD love testosterone. If it doesn't, something is missing.

[5 alpha victim]

Cool. If you find it too relaxing, take it with caffeine or preworkout etc. that is what a lot of us have switched too. They works in synergy since they both increase 5AR, DHT, progesterone etc. but caffeine raises dopamine and 5a-dhp raises GABA so a nice balance. Do you live in a cold area? It's tocopherols and MCT oil, so once it gets to room temp the drops should come out easy. I had the same issue when I first got mine as it was sitting in the cold mailbox.


I did find it to be really relaxing the first night I took it. Almost to the point where I felt a little "drugged". I also got pretty dam good sleep the first night. I had vivid dreams and felt as if I cycled through the stages of sleep better than I usually do. Actually one of the main issues with sleeping disorders is that people don't cycle through the stages of sleep properly. It's reasonable to assume  neurosteriods in the brain play a role with this.

Last night when I took it again at the same dose I felt relaxed but this time with out the overwhelming "drugged" feeling which I I'd rather not get. But for whatever reason i also slept terrible last night. Over all though I have still noticed an all around better mood and mindset over the last two days. 

I am deff not done with this stuff yet and I'm going to wait until I have tried it for a solid two weeks before I comment on how it effects sexual sides or training. I'm also going to start dropping the 5 drops in a spoon big enough to hold it before swallowing it. This way I don't need to worry about it getting stuck on the side of the cup that I'm drinking it out of.

I will also play around with the dose and try it transdermally but for now I'm sticking with 5mg oral per day so I can get a solid idea on how taking it like this effects me.

Thanks for pointing out the connection with caffeine. I'm going to try taking it with caffeine as well in a few days. Im not in a terribly cold climate nor was my package left in a mail box or anything like that. It was handed right to me. If I continue to be concerned about the exact amount that I am getting in each drop I could always drop it into something that allows me to measure it before taking it.

I am really looking forward to the potential that taking this stuff for let's say at least a month straight has to offer.

How long do you plan on running this for?

[TubZy]

I did find it to be really relaxing the first night I took it. Almost to the point where I felt a little "drugged". I also got pretty dam good sleep the first night. I had vivid dreams and felt as if I cycled through the stages of sleep better than I usually do. Actually one of the main issues with sleeping disorders is that people don't cycle through the stages of sleep properly. It's reasonable to assume  neurosteriods in the brain play a role with this.

Last night when I took it again at the same dose I felt relaxed but this time with out the overwhelming "drugged" feeling which I I'd rather not get. But for whatever reason i also slept terrible last night. Over all though I have still noticed an all around better mood and mindset over the last two days. 

I am deff not done with this stuff yet and I'm going to wait until I have tried it for a solid two weeks before I comment on how it effects sexual sides or training. I'm also going to start dropping the 5 drops in a spoon big enough to hold it before swallowing it. This way I don't need to worry about it getting stuck on the side of the cup that I'm drinking it out of.

I will also play around with the dose and try it transdermally but for now I'm sticking with 5mg oral per day so I can get a solid idea on how taking it like this effects me.

Thanks for pointing out the connection with caffeine. I'm going to try taking it with caffeine as well in a few days. Im not in a terribly cold climate nor was my package left in a mail box or anything like that. It was handed right to me. If I continue to be concerned about the exact amount that I am getting in each drop I could always drop it into something that allows me to measure it before taking it.

I am really looking forward to the potential that taking this stuff for let's say at least a month straight has to offer.

How long do you plan on running this for?

I still use it now (I also take preg), although I think my tolerance has developed slightly compared to the first couple times when I originally used it, but that could be my natural levels of allopreg could be restoring since it increases production of endogenous hormones and neurosteroids.

That is why, I don't get why 1-2 people mentioned they "crashed" from it when it literally does nothing to LH, endogenous hormones etc. it actually does the opposite (increases it). I do think it can tank your estrogen and cortisol levels if you use too much, but that bounces back within a couple days. If that is the case with the "crash" then just try it again at a lower dose once estrogen bounces back.

About the sleep thing, yeah don't take it like before bed, I wouldn't take it past like dinner time. Almost all of us had the same issue with that, but if taken earlier in the day it has no impact on falling asleep. I think it's from the U-shaped allopreg curve, too much allopreg can actually be stimulating.

If you seem benefits from it, I would just continue taking it, it up regulates natural synthesis of all the natural hormones in the body so you will assisting your body in homeostasis if anything. I get up to 50mg of 5a-DHP at one point, play around with the dose too.

[TubZy]

Never mind Tubzy, I found some stuff on it on Ray Peat. No need to provide links or anything.

But yea- I don't know. For someone only a couple months into Fin syndrome and for someone who only used it a very short time, I feel like its worth it to try the protodioscin run.

I really like the idea going high dose then dropping it and then taking a couple weeks off. Reminds me of how I used to use hydrocortisone when I had adrenal fatigue. This use of hydrocortisone in this fashion brought back my body's manufacturing of cortisol. I figure why not give it a shot for 5ar2 and/or the AR.

Being on TRT beforehand and afterward, I know that something major changed in my body. The androgen (t cream and cyp as I tried both) just has say 1/10th the effect it used to have on my body. Going lower dose (now on HCG mono) I am feeling a bit better, but the body SHOULD love testosterone. If it doesn't, something is missing.

Using exogenous hormones is going to be tricky man, a lot of variables. I experimented that route early on and it didn't work out that well. I think it would be easier just going the natural route.

[5 alpha victim]

I still use it now (I also take preg), although I think my tolerance has developed slightly compared to the first couple times when I originally used it, but that could be my natural levels of allopreg could be restoring since it increases production of endogenous hormones and neurosteroids.

That is why, I don't get why 1-2 people mentioned they "crashed" from it when it literally does nothing to LH, endogenous hormones etc. it actually does the opposite (increases it). I do think it can tank your estrogen and cortisol levels if you use too much, but that bounces back within a couple days. If that is the case with the "crash" then just try it again at a lower dose once estrogen bounces back.

About the sleep thing, yeah don't take it like before bed, I wouldn't take it past like dinner time. Almost all of us had the same issue with that, but if taken earlier in the day it has no impact on falling asleep. I think it's from the U-shaped allopreg curve, too much allopreg can actually be stimulating.

If you seem benefits from it, I would just continue taking it, it up regulates natural synthesis of all the natural hormones in the body so you will assisting your body in homeostasis if anything. I get up to 50mg of 5a-DHP at one point, play around with the dose too.



I was thinking the same thing that any crash type of feeling that anyone would get from this would probable be from inhibiting estrogen. I seen all the info over their at the Ray Peat Forum about its ability to inhibit estrogen and it makes me a little nervous because I am one of the handful of PFS guys that ended up a lot worse after taking Armidex . Based on the studies it does not sound like you can compare the strength of Armidex to 5a DHP as far as how much it can reduce estrogen so I think I am only taking a small risk. The vitamin E that is put in the bottle does not help me in that department but I figure I will just need to be that much more careful by not taking an additional vitamin E suppletment and by not going over 5MG of the DHP.

I took your advice by taking it at 1pm today to see how that works out with my quality of sleep tonight. Its interesting that you felt the fast tolerance build up with this as well. Day two and day three I no longer feel the drugged out feeling but I still feel different mentally in a good way. It's feeling like a pretty good natural calm feeling. I am also noticing that I am faster on my feet while talking to people, I am not struggling as much while reading through all these complicated studies and I'm just in a better mood all with out the feeling that I even took anything. I'm noticing other positive benefits as well but I will wait a little while before saying for sure so I'm not wasting space on this thread talking about every up and down.

I think your right about how it makes sense that if this is restoring what was out of place that we would kinda of level out and just feel normal seeing that that's how it felt before this whole thing. It's not like before this we just naturally felt like we took a Xanax. I also wonder if after we start taking this our body just converts what it needs to Alleopreg rather than all of it. That could explain what we are  describing as a fast tolerance build up as well.

I am really pumped about this stuff seeing that I have not noticed one negative side effect. Even with the super R andro my blood pressure would go up.

[Atticas]

Hey TubZy!

Just wanted to update you real quick since I couldn't inbox you.

I've been taking the 5a-DHP, DHEA and Preg for a couple days now.

Haven't seen too much of a change yet... but I do kinda feel like I've had a bit more energy, been yawning less, I saw my balls and dick hang LOW again finally, and been sleeping great... so I wanna definitely thank you for that!!! :D I'm not sure whether to attribute this all to the supplements or the fact that I've also taken a 2 week break for lifting and been on no fap for a while now, but either way, it's been cool!

Still haven't seen any improvement in skin yet... I looked into the Solban you recommended. You think it's really worth trying out? I'm gonna finally read more into it tonight and the studies since I have time.

Btw, since I haven't noticed too much difference yet with the 5a-DHP, do you recommend I up the dosage a bit till I recognize a difference in how I feel? I know this isn't going to be an overnight cure or anything, but just wanted to know your advice on it. The first time I took it I took like 20 mg and felt INSANE energy. The next day I tried the same and felt like nothing really happened x''D Been doing mostly 5mg now on a consistent basis.

[5 alpha victim]

The 5adhp is the best stand alone thing that I have ever tried to relieve this. I say this from taking it as a stand alone. I was at a higher level than this at one time during my first Super R andro run but that was after an extended period of time of having everything on point. For me super R andro does next to nothing unless I take it after being perfect with the rest of the protocol. More recently I have to admit that I fell of the wagon a little with some of this stuff but even with that said I got pretty dam good results from this. I noticed:

1) better erections. Higher labido
2) positive mood. Enjoy being around people more.
3) more energy
4) better work outs. Can hit the gym for longer and harder
5) all around better sleep. I hit the deep levels of sleep that I haven't hit in years. I wake up just as often and sometimes out of crazy vivid dreams but it's still all around better sleep.

I have been taking 5mg orally for about eight days now. As long as no one comes down with any side effects from this stuff I think it will become a common thing people take to treat this. Now that I'm back on point with the diet and herb cycling and have added about ten additional herbs to my rotation I cannot wait to see what level I can bring this to.

[Atticas]

The 5adhp is the best stand alone thing that I have ever tried to relieve this. I say this from taking it as a stand alone. I was at a higher level than this at one time during my first Super R andro run but that was after an extended period of time of having everything on point. For me super R andro does next to nothing unless I take it after being perfect with the rest of the protocol. More recently I have to admit that I fell of the wagon a little with some of this stuff but even with that said I got pretty dam good results from this. I noticed:

1) better erections. Higher labido
2) positive mood. Enjoy being around people more.
3) more energy
4) better work outs. Can hit the gym for longer and harder
5) all around better sleep. I hit the deep levels of sleep that I haven't hit in years. I wake up just as often and sometimes out of crazy vivid dreams but it's still all around better sleep.

I have been taking 5mg orally for about eight days now. As long as no one comes down with any side effects from this stuff I think it will become a common thing people take to treat this. Now that I'm back on point with the diet and herb cycling and have added about ten additional herbs to my rotation I cannot wait to see what level I can bring this to.

DAMN! I want these results! lol

I feel like the 5 mg isn't doing much for me...

The only day I really noticed results was when I took like 20mg in the morning once before the gym. I felt INSANE with energy.

Just got back from vacation... gonna order two more bottles of the stuff I think today. Maybe I'll dose it at 20-30mg for the rest of the month...

[TubZy]

The 5adhp is the best stand alone thing that I have ever tried to relieve this. I say this from taking it as a stand alone. I was at a higher level than this at one time during my first Super R andro run but that was after an extended period of time of having everything on point. For me super R andro does next to nothing unless I take it after being perfect with the rest of the protocol. More recently I have to admit that I fell of the wagon a little with some of this stuff but even with that said I got pretty dam good results from this. I noticed:

1) better erections. Higher labido
2) positive mood. Enjoy being around people more.
3) more energy
4) better work outs. Can hit the gym for longer and harder
5) all around better sleep. I hit the deep levels of sleep that I haven't hit in years. I wake up just as often and sometimes out of crazy vivid dreams but it's still all around better sleep.

I have been taking 5mg orally for about eight days now. As long as no one comes down with any side effects from this stuff I think it will become a common thing people take to treat this. Now that I'm back on point with the diet and herb cycling and have added about ten additional herbs to my rotation I cannot wait to see what level I can bring this to.

Cool man, not sure if you saw but haidut just released another product that could be very benefical for PFS.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/gonadin-steroid-optimizer-for-r-d.15620/

[5 alpha victim]

DAMN! I want these results! lol

I feel like the 5 mg isn't doing much for me...

The only day I really noticed results was when I took like 20mg in the morning once before the gym. I felt INSANE with energy.

Just got back from vacation... gonna order two more bottles of the stuff I think today. Maybe I'll dose it at 20-30mg for the rest of the month...

I can see how you would feel insanely good after taking 20-30mg of this stuff. Little to much of a drugged feeling for me though. I like the natural energy feeling. I can also see how taking that much could backfire or at least no longer give you that insanely good feeling. We'd probably just build a tolerance like anything else.

Have you tried 5mg orally for like a solid week straight? I could be wrong and this is just a hunch but I am thinking 5adhp holds the most value to us if we use it in a way that replenishes low Alleopreg levels. Overdoing Alleopreg levels prob does nothing for us beyond a certain point. Maybe super dosing it could speed things up with getting our natural levels back going though. Who knows for sure

Im also noticing that the feeling I get from this blends really nicely with herbs. I took mucuna two days ago and they felt really good together. Will be interesting to see how it continues to interact with other herbs.

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[5 alpha victim]

Cool man, not sure if you saw but haidut just released another product that could be very benefical for PFS.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/gonadin-steroid-optimizer-for-r-d.15620/
Thanks man

I read up on it a little and it sounds like it's a good way to increase T. Last time I checked mine I was in the mid 600's and that was from blood drawn while i was sick, on five hours sleep the night prior and while i was taking a little break from all herbs and T boosters. After my recent push to get back on point with diet and adding several more herbs into my rotation I'm planning on moving that number up to the 800's by the summer time. So right now I'll just watch and wait on this.

I'm tempted to throw Androsterone in the mix at low dose just for three days to see what it does right now but I don't want to get greedy and end up going backwards either.

Just curious..have you tried Androsterone while on this?

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[Cdsnuts]

Thanks man

I read up on it a little and it sounds like it's a good way to increase T. Last time I checked mine I was in the mid 600's and that was from blood drawn while i was sick, on five hours sleep the night prior and while i was taking a little break from all herbs and T boosters. After my recent push to get back on point with diet and adding several more herbs into my rotation I'm planning on moving that number up to the 800's by the summer time. So right now I'll just watch and wait on this.

I'm tempted to throw Androsterone in the mix at low dose just for three days to see what it does right now but I don't want to get greedy and end up going backwards either.

Just curious..have you tried Androsterone while on this?

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It sounds like you're doing well 5alpha....keep at it! It just get's better and better.

[TubZy]

I think I'm sold on adding it to the routine.

Any noticeable reductions in brain fog or better memory?


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Didnt receive it yet, hopefully tomorrow or Thurs

[5 alpha victim]

It sounds like you're doing well 5alpha....keep at it! It just get's better and better.
Thanks man for allowing this here. It's going to continue to help more people.

Accepting that a good portion of this is mental helps. It's hard to come to terms with but it helps.

I have a good feeling about the next few months

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[Cdsnuts]

Thanks man for allowing this here. It's going to continue to help more people.

Accepting that a good portion of this is mental helps. It's hard to come to terms with but it helps.

I have a good feeling about the next few months

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The final decision was the site owners, not mine. He's the one that you should thank.

And yes, it is mental but mental in the fact that it's neurological dysfunction, which just like anything physical can be fixed.

Just keep doing what you've been doing and the fog will start to lift.... you'll see

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[Atticas]

CDN, question for you.

I drank a while back from now... maybe a month or so ago. Do you think another cleanse is necessary if someone drinks or should they just keep pushing through

[Cdsnuts]

CDN, question for you.

I drank a while back from now... maybe a month or so ago. Do you think another cleanse is necessary if someone drinks or should they just keep pushing through
You should know by now that I'm a thread Nazi..... we have to keep these threads on topic otherwise the board gets sloppy and unorganized for people that are trying to find information.

I'm only going to answer this because we can tie it in to 5a dhp.

No, if you drank one time a month ago it's not going to Warrant a full-on cleanse. Whatever negative effect it had on your brain is long gone by now.

Especially if you're running the 5A dhp which increases allopregnanolone... the compound is somewhat of an insurance policy in that matter

That's not to say because you're running it you can go on a bender it's just that your levels will be kept higher then if you weren't running it therefore negating the Alcohol come down.

The alcohol will still give your liver somewhat of a beating and you want to keep all systems of elimination working at full capacity at all times.

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[TubZy]

CDN, question for you.

I drank a while back from now... maybe a month or so ago. Do you think another cleanse is necessary if someone drinks or should they just keep pushing through

dude if you have energy to drink alcohol and deal with a hangover and the liver/body stress on top of PFS you must not be that bad at all or even have PFS lol...

There is not point in drinking alcohol at all in recovering for PFS. If you want the allopreg increase just use glycine/gelatin or 5a-dhp, no need for alcohol.

[Atticas]

dude if you have energy to drink alcohol and deal with a hangover and the liver/body stress on top of PFS you must not be that bad at all or even have PFS lol...

There is not point in drinking alcohol at all in recovering for PFS. If you want the allopreg increase just use glycine/gelatin or 5a-dhp, no need for alcohol.

I suffered from PFS in weird ways man.

Like I still function pretty normally, and I could even go out and drink and destroy myself in 2 nights almost just like I used to.

But afterwards, it would feel like the eye bags under my eyes were somehow strained or causing me pain... and i'd feel horrible.

Anyways, no worries telling me not to drink. I'm really trying to give it a go now because I really want to get better now, and I know my failure to refrain from drinking was one thing CDN really used to harp on me about in why I probably wasn't going to recover as well/quick as I could. I really want to give this thing a solid shot soon here... and I'm even considering finally taking the prohormones. I want this disease out of my life for good.

[Atticas]

Btw, just wanted to update you Tubzy and ask a question.

I've been taking Preg/5a-DHP/DHEA combo for a week or two now at this point.

I haven't seen much of any results from it.... I think my mental clarity is certainly better, but as far as my facial skin, genital atrophy, or energy goes, I still feel the same. And tbh, I actually feel like after I started taking 5a-DHP, my libido have gone down a little.

Do you have any idea why the effects are kind of off for me? What would be your suggestion of where to go next?

[DrivenToRecover]

Btw, just wanted to update you Tubzy and ask a question.

I've been taking Preg/5a-DHP/DHEA combo for a week or two now at this point.

I haven't seen much of any results from it.... I think my mental clarity is certainly better, but as far as my facial skin, genital atrophy, or energy goes, I still feel the same. And tbh, I actually feel like after I started taking 5a-DHP, my libido have gone down a little.

Do you have any idea why the effects are kind of off for me? What would be your suggestion of where to go next?

Don't take this the wrong way my man, but it seems like you can overestimate how quickly these things have positive change that you notice in your body.

Just because you haven't noticed results in a week or two doesn't mean you should change anything or that these things aren't helping you.

lots of people on the pro hormones say they don't feel any different until a few weeks in...and by my estimation they are a lot more potent than the combo you are using.

If you're constantly changing your approach and searching for quick symptom relief...you might be disappointed.

Just my 2 cents


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[TubZy]

Btw, just wanted to update you Tubzy and ask a question.

I've been taking Preg/5a-DHP/DHEA combo for a week or two now at this point.

I haven't seen much of any results from it.... I think my mental clarity is certainly better, but as far as my facial skin, genital atrophy, or energy goes, I still feel the same. And tbh, I actually feel like after I started taking 5a-DHP, my libido have gone down a little.

Do you have any idea why the effects are kind of off for me? What would be your suggestion of where to go next?

I would just drop them all if you feel they are making you worse. Although, your biggest side effect is skin issues so hormones can moderately help with that due to the reduction in cortisol. But again, skin issues can be a million reasons in itself.

Other than that I'm not sure the duration you been taking hormones but I wouldn't suggest anything else at this point, it seems you are not a good responder to hormones so I would just use the herbs if you felt fine on that.

[Maxout777]

Btw, just wanted to update you Tubzy and ask a question.

I've been taking Preg/5a-DHP/DHEA combo for a week or two now at this point.

I haven't seen much of any results from it.... I think my mental clarity is certainly better, but as far as my facial skin, genital atrophy, or energy goes, I still feel the same. And tbh, I actually feel like after I started taking 5a-DHP, my libido have gone down a little.

Do you have any idea why the effects are kind of off for me? What would be your suggestion of where to go next?

Meant to tell you this before, but it's pretty common for people in their mid 20s to start having eye bags. So I wouldn't worry about that. Some of the healthiest people I know, have them. Some days mine are worse than others, but I'm pretty sure I've always had mine.

And take heed of what Driven told you. In order for anything to work you've got to give it a few months at least. I'd say 6 before reevaluating it. Nothing that's given on this site is a silver bullet....Not preg, not CDs regimine, not 5a-DHP....Gotta have some consistency with them as with anything else in life to get anywhere.

[Atticas]

Alright, I'll pushing for another 4 weeks with the hormones then just to see if I get better results once I finally hit 6 weeks.

I wanted to get more 5a-DHP to play with the dosages and effects anyway...

Btw, Is there anything wrong with me taking preg and DHEA while also taking 5a-DHP in your opinion Tubzy?

And to maxoutt777, no man. My eyes were fine until literally the second day of taking Fin. Even if they were normal for my age now, I know they're abnormally because of how rapidly the fat deposits changed under my eyes (1 week) and the fact that to this day, I can see veins under my eyes through my skin. It looks unhealthy.

[TubZy]

Alright, I'll pushing for another 4 weeks with the hormones then just to see if I get better results once I finally hit 6 weeks.

I wanted to get more 5a-DHP to play with the dosages and effects anyway...

Btw, Is there anything wrong with me taking preg and DHEA while also taking 5a-DHP in your opinion Tubzy?

And to maxoutt777, no man. My eyes were fine until literally the second day of taking Fin. Even if they were normal for my age now, I know they're abnormally because of how rapidly the fat deposits changed under my eyes (1 week) and the fact that to this day, I can see veins under my eyes through my skin. It looks unhealthy.

I actually don't think DHEA is necessary at all. As long as you are taking preg it will convert to DHEA as needed. DHEA can add an extra androgenic boost if taken in small amounts and your body can respond well.

5a-DHP is still good to take as you are getting a direct precursor into allopreg, but you do get some allopreg alone from larger doses (100mg) of preg.

There is no harm in taking all of them but if something is making you feel worse it is hard to pinpoint what when you are taking multiple things at once. Also, preg and 5a-DHP can both increase progesterone which is good but stacking both at higher doses could increase progesterone too much maybe showing some anti androgenic effects.

[Atticas]

I actually don't think DHEA is necessary at all. As long as you are taking preg it will convert to DHEA as needed. DHEA can add an extra androgenic boost if taken in small amounts and your body can respond well.

5a-DHP is still good to take as you are getting a direct precursor into allopreg, but you do get some allopreg alone from larger doses (100mg) of preg.

There is no harm in taking all of them but if something is making you feel worse it is hard to pinpoint what when you are taking multiple things at once. Also, preg and 5a-DHP can both increase progesterone which is good but stacking both at higher doses could increase progesterone too much maybe showing some anti androgenic effects.

Right now, I'm just taking 100mg of preg, 50mg of DHEA, and 5 drops of 5a-DHP daily.

I mean, the good news is, I can't really say I've seen any bad effects from it all yet. I guess I'm just scared I'm not making ground here, but it's only been like two weeks so I could just be getting anxious. With CDN's herbs, I originally definitely felt change, so maybe I was just expecting a lot too quick.

Like I said, I'll give it another 4 weeks and maybe up the 5a-DHP dosage to 20-30 drops

[Cdsnuts]

Right now, I'm just taking 100mg of preg, 50mg of DHEA, and 5 drops of 5a-DHP daily.

I mean, the good news is, I can't really say I've seen any bad effects from it all yet. I guess I'm just scared I'm not making ground here, but it's only been like two weeks so I could just be getting anxious. With CDN's herbs, I originally definitely felt change, so maybe I was just expecting a lot too quick.

Like I said, I'll give it another 4 weeks and maybe up the 5a-DHP dosage to 20-30 drops
The longer you rotate the herbs the better you feel and the more of an effect you will get from them. Their effects are cumulative in the body.

That being said, if you are going to go the hormone route you have to give it at least a month to six weeks

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[Atticas]

The longer you rotate the herbs the better you feel and the more of an effect you will get from them. Their effects are cumulative in the body.

That being said, if you are going to go the hormone route you have to give it at least a month to six weeks

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Thank you for the positive reinforcement man.

I'm really looking forward to starting the herbs back up after 4 more weeks again. They really felt like they were doing something for me energy and libido wise

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you for the positive reinforcement man.

I'm really looking forward to starting the herbs back up after 4 more weeks again. They really felt like they were doing something for me energy and libido wise
Lol... that's because they were

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[TubZy]

Right now, I'm just taking 100mg of preg, 50mg of DHEA, and 5 drops of 5a-DHP daily.

I mean, the good news is, I can't really say I've seen any bad effects from it all yet. I guess I'm just scared I'm not making ground here, but it's only been like two weeks so I could just be getting anxious. With CDN's herbs, I originally definitely felt change, so maybe I was just expecting a lot too quick.

Like I said, I'll give it another 4 weeks and maybe up the 5a-DHP dosage to 20-30 drops

Dude, 50mg of DHEA is a huge dose! Anything over 15mg total daily will convert into estrogen. I can't even go over 5mg total of DHEA for the day when I do take it otherwise I feel weird.

Who told you to take 50mg of DHEA. I would just drop it.

The preg and 5a-DHP doses look fine though.

If you still have gonad atrophy, haidut just released a new product specifically for that although I have not tried it yet or anyone else. Mine should be here today actually and I plan to log it.

[Atticas]

Dude, 50mg of DHEA is a huge dose! Anything over 15mg total daily will convert into estrogen. I can't even go over 5mg total of DHEA for the day when I do take it otherwise I feel weird.

Who told you to take 50mg of DHEA. I would just drop it.

The preg and 5a-DHP doses look fine though.

If you still have gonad atrophy, haidut just released a new product specifically for that although I have not tried it yet or anyone else. Mine should be here today actually and I plan to log it.


Welllllllll shit 😅

I thought that's the doses people were agreeing upon here. Plus the pills my chiropractor/applied kinesiologist guy gave me are 25mg a pill... and he suggested 50mg too.

Alright, well guess I'm dropping the hell out of my DHEA supplements 😂 I'll continue on preg and 5a-DHP and keep everyone updated if anything major changes. I really should read more into these exogenous hormones...

- - - Updated - - -




If you still have gonad atrophy, haidut just released a new product specifically for that although I have not tried it yet or anyone else. Mine should be here today actually and I plan to log it.

Also, I think I'll wait to see your results with that stuff before I take a shot with it. Just to be careful.

[DrivenToRecover]

Welllllllll shit 😅

I thought that's the doses people were agreeing upon here. Plus the pills my chiropractor/applied kinesiologist guy gave me are 25mg a pill... and he suggested 50mg too.

Alright, well guess I'm dropping the hell out of my DHEA supplements 😂 I'll continue on preg and 5a-DHP and keep everyone updated if anything major changes. I really should read more into these exogenous hormones...

While on the topic of exogenous hormones....I saw you said you were taking melatonin.

There was a thread a while back where we talked about how it was probably better not to take that because it is actually a synthetic hormone you are taking.

I was nervous at first when I quit taking it a few months back, but doing breathing, magnesium, and limiting light exposure at night has me sleeping just as well as when I was only taking melatonin.

Honestly, maybe better. In hindsight I feel like a lot of melatonin's effectiveness is placebo.


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[Atticas]

While on the topic of exogenous hormones....I saw you said you were taking melatonin.

There was a thread a while back where we talked about how it was probably better not to take that because it is actually a synthetic hormone you are taking.

I was nervous at first when I quit taking it a few months back, but doing breathing, magnesium, and limiting light exposure at night has me sleeping just as well as when I was only taking melatonin.

Honestly, maybe better. In hindsight I feel like a lot of melatonin's effectiveness is placebo.


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DANG!!!

Nooooooooo, I've been enjoying this stuff xD
I sleep so hard man.

What bad effects do you think could come from taking it?

I mean honestly, I'm probably fine just talking this magnesium supplement and Glycine at night, but I'm still curious

[Cdsnuts]

DANG!!!

Nooooooooo, I've been enjoying this stuff xD
I sleep so hard man.

What bad effects do you think could come from taking it?

I mean honestly, I'm probably fine just talking this magnesium supplement and Glycine at night, but I'm still curious
I haven't personally researched this yet but supposedly it lowers testosterone

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[DrivenToRecover]

DANG!!!

Nooooooooo, I've been enjoying this stuff xD
I sleep so hard man.

What bad effects do you think could come from taking it?

I mean honestly, I'm probably fine just talking this magnesium supplement and Glycine at night, but I'm still curious

Honestly, its pretty unlikely its going to hold you back significantly...

But this whole thing is about optimizing everything as much as possible you know?


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[Maxout777]

I took Melatonin for months during my recovery. Pretty much all through the summer months in a supplement called Crash by Pro Supps that worked really well with the Natural Calm magnesium supplement.

I no longer take it nor need anything for sleep, however I take glycine for its sleep benefits on top of normal sleep. Also take Dream N Grow (IML's sleep supplement with Kratom, Melatonin and a few other supplements. Works great when used on occasion) on travel because I've NEVER slept well in hotels. Even before my run with PFS.

Long story short, I don't believe it'll effect you negatively enough to matter, at least it didn't for me.

[K8668B]

I tried 5a-DHP about two weeks back. Only gave it 2 days. It didnt work for me, and i bitched about it on solvepfs. But im starting to believe it didnt work because it must be used properly, IN CONJUNCTION with everything else. It did give me really intense vivid dreams though.

[TubZy]

I tried 5a-DHP about two weeks back. Only gave it 2 days. It didnt work for me, and i bitched about it on solvepfs. But im starting to believe it didnt work because it must be used properly, IN CONJUNCTION with everything else. It did give me really intense vivid dreams though.

It could also be to downregulated or lower NAD levels which is the steroid/neurosteroid co-enzyme. Niacinamide boosts this enzyme directly that is why it can increase androgenic and DHT signalling. Try taking a few 100mg or so of niacinamide with the 5a-dhp next time you try.

This is the enzyme that is responsible for converting 5a-dhp into allopreg.

[theshogun]

Taking 5a-DHP every couple of days, 5mg.
Not sure if it is the 5a-DHP or everything else I'm doing but I'm putting on muscle fast, recovering really well from the gym, waking up with erections every morning and my flaccid is full and warm all day.

I took it with 100mg caffeine today and easily smashed my record for barbell rows and barbell bench press.
On the way to the gym I noticed that I found every girl super attractive and couldn't stop staring.
Maybe it's because I'm on day 5 of NoFap

[Atticas]

Taking 5a-DHP every couple of days, 5mg.
Not sure if it is the 5a-DHP or everything else I'm doing but I'm putting on muscle fast, recovering really well from the gym, waking up with erections every morning and my flaccid is full and warm all day.

I took it with 100mg caffeine today and easily smashed my record for barbell rows and barbell bench press.
On the way to the gym I noticed that I found every girl super attractive and couldn't stop staring.
Maybe it's because I'm on day 5 of NoFap

DAMN! Why is everyone else getting these crazy results?! xD

I'm definitely upping my doses once I get these two bottles tomorrow. Wanna see this stuff work!

[theshogun]

I haven't experienced with higher doses yet because I'm broke and can't afford a new bottle.
I calculated that a bottle has about 240 drops I believe so I'm trying to make it last by taking 5 drops every 2-3 days.

Other new stuff I have been doing: Increased Vit C consumption, slowly increased magnesium consumption and cold showers every day

[Atticas]

I haven't experienced with higher doses yet because I'm broke and can't afford a new bottle.
I calculated that a bottle has about 240 drops I believe so I'm trying to make it last by taking 5 drops every 2-3 days.

Other new stuff I have been doing: Increased Vit C consumption, slowly increased magnesium consumption and cold showers every day

Yea. I think I'm getting two new bottles today. I'm gonna jack that stuff UP.

I remember the first day I took it, I took like 20mgs or something and I felt INSANE energy and manliness. The second day I took it, nothing really happened.

So it was weird. But this next dosage I get, I'm gonna go the route of going HIGHER if my energy doesn't go up. Gonna start with 20 again

[Atticas]

And guess who just got his two bottles baby!!

Oh it's tiiiiiiiiiiiiiime!!

[5 alpha victim]

And guess who just got his two bottles baby!!

Oh it's tiiiiiiiiiiiiiime!!
5adhp had made my sleep as normal as it's felt since my health went down hill. My sleep is getting better and better by the night.

I'm not saying that I think I have all the answers but alleopreg is one hundred percent involved in this. Mentally I feel all around better than before. This is a huge find.

Does anyone have any plans on how long they plan on taking this for and or how to come off of it?

I'm also almost positive that 5adhp reduces estrogen in some way or the other. I'm seeing a few of the common indicators of estrogen reduction such as some joint pain and a couple other small things. Overall though libido is still increased. I'm loving this stuff.

Herbs continue to hit me harder as well which seems to also be getting better by the day. Really the only department that 5adhp has not helped me with is digestive issues and with my back which is no biggie because other parts of this protocol/what I do daily treat those issues anyway.

Certain sexual symptoms have not seen major improvements while others have. I am looking forward to running a DHT prohormone soon as being pretty well off before going in that is usually a good thing for me and because I recall androsterone hitting the few points that 5adhp does not in the sexual symptoms.

Maybe we should be coming off of this slowly?  To increase the chances of these improvements sticking?

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[rmoore]

5adhp had made my sleep as normal as it's felt since my health went down hill. My sleep is getting better and better by the night.

I'm not saying that I think I have all the answers but alleopreg is one hundred percent involved in this. Mentally I feel all around better than before. This is a huge find.

Does anyone have any plans on how long they plan on taking this for and or how to come off of it?

I'm also almost positive that 5adhp reduces estrogen in some way or the other. I'm seeing a few of the common indicators of estrogen reduction such as some joint pain and a couple other small things. Overall though libido is still increased. I'm loving this stuff.

Herbs continue to hit me harder as well which seems to also be getting better by the day. Really the only department that 5adhp has not helped me with is digestive issues and with my back which is no biggie because other parts of this protocol/what I do daily treat those issues anyway.

Certain sexual symptoms have not seen major improvements while others have. I am looking forward to running a DHT prohormone soon as being pretty well off before going in that is usually a good thing for me and because I recall androsterone hitting the few points that 5adhp does not in the sexual symptoms.

Maybe we should be coming off of this slowly?  To increase the chances of these improvements sticking?

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Good to hear. What dose are you taking? and are you taking it in morning with caffeine?

[Cdsnuts]

I'm not saying that I think I have all the answers but alleopreg is one hundred percent involved in this. Mentally I feel all around better than before. This is a huge find.

I'm also almost positive that 5adhp reduces estrogen in some way or the other. I'm seeing a few of the common indicators of estrogen reduction such as some joint pain and a couple other small things. Overall though libido is still increased. I'm loving this stuff.

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5 AR Inhibitors effects on allo pregnenolone are well-known. It's what leads to the anxiety and sleep issues. It's also one of the reasons the supplement was recommended.

It's effects on estrogen are also another one of the benefits touted because of its effects on DHT

It just sounds funny the way you wrote these things... I'm busting your balls

Glad you're getting results but not surprised.
....

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[5 alpha victim]

Good to hear. What dose are you taking? and are you taking it in morning with caffeine?
I have been taking 5MG orally for a little over three weeks. I have not been taking it with caffeine. Do you think i should try? I have read about others taking it.

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[5 alpha victim]

5 AR Inhibitors effects on allo pregnenolone are well-known. It's what leads to the anxiety and sleep issues. It's also one of the reasons the supplement was recommended.

It's effects on estrogen are also another one of the benefits touted because of its effects on DHT

It just sounds funny the way you wrote these things... I'm busting your balls

Glad you're getting results but not surprised.
....

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LoL I know I'm kinda talking about it like it's something we don't already know. I guess seeing some of this stuff confirmed as I go helps me talk about it like it's written in stone.

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[Cdsnuts]

LoL I know I'm kinda talking about it like it's something we don't already know. I guess seeing some of this stuff confirmed as I go helps me talk about it like it's written in stone.

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I've always said personal experience trumps all. You can now see why.

[Cdsnuts]

I have been taking 5MG orally for a little over three weeks. I have not been taking it with caffeine. Do you think i should try? I have read about others taking it.

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It can't hurt unless the caffeine is too much for you at this stage of the game.

When I tested it out I took it preworkout with caffeine and liked the effects.

[TubZy]

I have been taking 5MG orally for a little over three weeks. I have not been taking it with caffeine. Do you think i should try? I have read about others taking it.

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Yes. Anyone reading this that is feeling worse from either 5a-dhp, androsterone, estroban etc. try this.

At the same time you take your 5a-DHP dose take:

200mg caffeine pill
325mg tablet aspirin
take this after you eat a big meal with carbs/sugar and well fed.

You should get a much improved response and if you feel worse from 5a-DHP that means you have an underlying thyroid issue and by taking caffeine/aspirin along with it you should get a completely different positive response. The reason is cortisol is dropping too low and thyroid isn't there to regulate it (if down regulated or suppressed), just like it regulates 5AR. I had this exact problem with certain supplements and herbs which I think has to do with the so called "crash" everyone talks about. That is one of the reasons why coffee/caffeine can cure any digestive issues when taken with a meal temporarily.

Caffeine and aspirin are both thyroid surrogates meaning that they act almost identical to T3 in the body without suppression your endogenous levels like synthetic T3/T4 would. 5a-DHP is a very strong cortisol and estrogen antagonist. Just like androsterone is.

So anyone who is trying 5a-dhp try doing what I said and let us know your experience, good or bad.

For me by taking an aspirin and caffeine pill whenever I dose something like 5a-dhp, DHEA, androsterone etc. this completely cured my so called "low cortisol issue", which I thought was the issue. I mentioned that I felt very weird on anything higher than 5mg of DHEA (due to how strong it can lower cortisol), well now I'm taking 15mg a day (5mg/5mg/5mg) along with preg with zero negative issues and signs of much higher DHT levels and no brain fog, weird feeling I was originally getting. The only shitty part is that, that means my thyroid still hasn't fully recovered yet.

This is also probably why the only thing I could take was preg and responded well to it. Preg can act as a cortisol/estrogen precursor IF it drops too low, but it still wasn't enough to handle it from dhea, androsterone, progesterone etc.

I also mentioned previously that I was already taking caffeine did make me feel better b/c I thought it was raising cortisol, but it looks like it was working as if T3 would. When I added in aspirin with the combo the difference was much much better.

Also, by taking CD's herbs at the same time could actually help as well due to how they modulate cortisol levels preventing it from dropping to low.

So in general here are some example of thyroid surrogates which could also be used by anyone with metabolism issues or trying to lower TSH, or wants to try a safer alternative to using synthetic T3/T4:

caffeine
aspirin
methylene blue
vitamin K2

[TubZy]

It can't hurt unless the caffeine is too much for you at this stage of the game.

When I tested it out I took it preworkout with caffeine and liked the effects.

Clean out your PM so I can respond lol

[Maxout777]

Yes. Anyone reading this that is feeling worse from either 5a-dhp, androsterone, estroban etc. try this.

At the same time you take your 5a-DHP dose take:

200mg caffeine pill
325mg tablet aspirin
take this after you eat a big meal with carbs/sugar and well fed.

You should get a much improved response and if you feel worse from 5a-DHP that means you have an underlying thyroid issue and by taking caffeine/aspirin along with it you should get a completely different positive response. The reason is cortisol is dropping too low and thyroid isn't there to regulate it (if down regulated or suppressed), just like it regulates 5AR. I had this exact problem with certain supplements and herbs which I think has to do with the so called "crash" everyone talks about. That is one of the reasons why coffee/caffeine can cure any digestive issues when taken with a meal temporarily.

Caffeine and aspirin are both thyroid surrogates meaning that they act almost identical to T3 in the body without suppression your endogenous levels like synthetic T3/T4 would. 5a-DHP is a very strong cortisol and estrogen antagonist. Just like androsterone is.

So anyone who is trying 5a-dhp try doing what I said and let us know your experience, good or bad.

For me by taking an aspirin and caffeine pill whenever I dose something like 5a-dhp, DHEA, androsterone etc. this completely cured my so called "low cortisol issue", which I thought was the issue. I mentioned that I felt very weird on anything higher than 5mg of DHEA (due to how strong it can lower cortisol), well now I'm taking 15mg a day (5mg/5mg/5mg) along with preg with zero negative issues and signs of much higher DHT levels and no brain fog, weird feeling I was originally getting. The only shitty part is that, that means my thyroid still hasn't fully recovered yet.

This is also probably why the only thing I could take was preg and responded well to it. Preg can act as a cortisol/estrogen precursor IF it drops too low, but it still wasn't enough to handle it from dhea, androsterone, progesterone etc.

I also mentioned previously that I was already taking caffeine did make me feel better b/c I thought it was raising cortisol, but it looks like it was working as if T3 would. When I added in aspirin with the combo the difference was much much better.

Also, by taking CD's herbs at the same time could actually help as well due to how they modulate cortisol levels preventing it from dropping to low.

So in general here are some example of thyroid surrogates which could also be used by anyone with metabolism issues or trying to lower TSH, or wants to try a safer alternative to using synthetic T3/T4:

caffeine
aspirin
methylene blue
vitamin K2

I'm pretty sure I've obliterated my estrogen using this stuff. Coming off my last R Andro cycle last month I have been using this daily in tune with pine pollen. I'm feeling bad ass but I've got a lot of the low estrogen sides.....Dry skin, sluggishness, etc.

[TubZy]

I'm pretty sure I've obliterated my estrogen using this stuff. Coming off my last R Andro cycle last month I have been using this daily in tune with pine pollen. I'm feeling bad ass but I've got a lot of the low estrogen sides.....Dry skin, sluggishness, etc.

Try it and see what happens. I would say use coffee but it is harder to gauge due to caffeine content, brands, cofactors etc. I prefer caffeine pills.

So if you can try 1 caffeine pill 200mg (I have nutrabio but it doesnt matter) with 1 aspirin tablet (325mg) and your normal dose of 5a-dhp take it maybe in the morning just in case it messes with your sleep and see if you notice a difference, experiment with for a few days.

[Maxout777]

Try it and see what happens. I would say use coffee but it is harder to gauge due to caffeine content, brands, cofactors etc. I prefer caffeine pills.

So if you can try 1 caffeine pill 200mg (I have nutrabio but it doesnt matter) with 1 aspirin tablet (325mg) and your normal dose of 5a-dhp take it maybe in the morning just in case it messes with your sleep and see if you notice a difference, experiment with for a few days.

I've been using it with coffee, just not the others. I may lay off it for a bit to see if it's causing the low estrogen sides.

[TubZy]

I've been using it with coffee, just not the others. I may lay off it for a bit to see if it's causing the low estrogen sides.

OK. I'm more on the sensitive end of caffeine so 200mg of caffeine initially was plenty for me but for you it may not be enough for you may have to try 400mg to feel effects. For me, 200mg works fine per "dose".

[Cdsnuts]

OK. I'm more on the sensitive end of caffeine so 200mg of caffeine initially was plenty for me but for you it may not be enough for you may have to try 400mg to feel effects. For me, 200mg works fine per "dose".

That's my sweet spot for caffeine as well. Anymore than that and I get the jitters, fast heartbeat, etc.

[Atticas]

Bout to try 40mg today guise :D

Wish me luck!

[theshogun]

RIP Atticas, he got so much DHT he dieded.
jk, curious what happens.

[Atticas]

RIP Atticas, he got so much DHT he dieded.
jk, curious what happens.

Yo. This is atticas' brother, typing for him on his account. I can't believe you f*cks talked him into this... atticas is much ded. He over-DHT'd. His manliness went into overdrive and he tried to lift and have sex with our house.

.................................ok jk.

So took the 40mg yesterday... (squeezing the 40 drops out by itself practically began to feel like a workout xD) and felt pretty good up until I hit the gym.

For some reason recently, my energy and stuff feels fine during the day, all UNTIL I hit the gym and do like one exercise. Then all the sudden I feel super tired...

I'm thinking this must have to do with me taking basically like 3 weeks off from the gym when I was dating that girl. Maybe my body just needs to get back into the swing of things. idk.

But yea, as per usual, after the gym, energy eventually came back, took my sleep stuff, slept like a rock, and woke up with normal penis size again.

Anyways, don't really know what to make of this. Going up to 40mg (while taking caffeine) and still not feeling much different, while other guys claim this stuff is freaking amazing.

[Cdsnuts]

Yo. This is atticas' brother, typing for him on his account. I can't believe you f*cks talked him into this... atticas is much ded. He over-DHT'd. His manliness went into overdrive and he tried to lift and have sex with our house.

.................................ok jk.

So took the 40mg yesterday... (squeezing the 40 drops out by itself practically began to feel like a workout xD) and felt pretty good up until I hit the gym.

For some reason recently, my energy and stuff feels fine during the day, all UNTIL I hit the gym and do like one exercise. Then all the sudden I feel super tired...

I'm thinking this must have to do with me taking basically like 3 weeks off from the gym when I was dating that girl. Maybe my body just needs to get back into the swing of things. idk.

But yea, as per usual, after the gym, energy eventually came back, took my sleep stuff, slept like a rock, and woke up with normal penis size again.

Anyways, don't really know what to make of this. Going up to 40mg (while taking caffeine) and still not feeling much different, while other guys claim this stuff is freaking amazing.
Werent you one of those guys?

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[Atticas]

Werent you one of those guys?

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The first day I took it, yea. I felt like I had gotten incredible energy from it.

Now, it doesn't really feel like it does much. I mean, I've felt like I've seen some improvement in sleep and mental clarity, but I'm not even sure if I could have related that to 5a-DHP alone considering I started taking different supplements around the same time such as the magnesium and B complexes, as well as glycine and melatonin at night.

[Atticas]

Ya know, going back and reading, maybe there is something off with my adrenals or something that's not allowing me to feel great energy again like I did before...

Gonna try and lay off the caffeine today while I take the 5a-DHP.

Btw, CDN, I noticed TubZy has actually recommended the idea of taking pine pollen with 5a-DHP supplementation, and I noticed you've been recommending people suffering from PFS should go ahead and take pine pollen everyday for hormone balance/greater effects from herbs.

So I think today, I'll take the preg, 5a-DHP (today at just 20mg), and some pine pollen. Question CDN: Do you recommend the pine pollen power for everyday use, or the tincture? I have both downstairs still.

[TubZy]

Ya know, going back and reading, maybe there is something off with my adrenals or something that's not allowing me to feel great energy again like I did before...

Gonna try and lay off the caffeine today while I take the 5a-DHP.

Btw, CDN, I noticed TubZy has actually recommended the idea of taking pine pollen with 5a-DHP supplementation, and I noticed you've been recommending people suffering from PFS should go ahead and take pine pollen everyday for hormone balance/greater effects from herbs.

So I think today, I'll take the preg, 5a-DHP (today at just 20mg), and some pine pollen. Question CDN: Do you recommend the pine pollen power for everyday use, or the tincture? I have both downstairs still.

You need to remember higher doses of 5a-DHP doesn't automatically mean better results. It is a precursor to allopreg so you body has to convert it into allopreg through the tightly regulated coenzyme activity of NAD/NADH compared to say taking bioidentical allopreg, where there is no regulation or conversion process by the body. That is why I suggest trying niacinamide before increasing 5a-DHP dose. Niacinamide greatly increases NAD/NADH which is how it improves androgenic signalling.

If you feel tired later on in the day before the gym why not just take it preworkout with the caffeine instead? That how most of us have been using it anyway.

Another option you could try would be progesterone and dhea comobo in a 1:1 ratio. Progesterone will antagonize estrogen, increase allopreg, increase thyroid and regulate cortisol and the DHEA will convert into DHT (since progesterone will block the estrogen pathway) and counter any of the possible anti androgenic effects from higher dose progesterone.

[Atticas]

You need to remember higher doses of 5a-DHP doesn't automatically mean better results. It is a precursor to allopreg so you body has to convert it into allopreg through the tightly regulated coenzyme activity of NAD/NADH compared to say taking bioidentical allopreg, where there is no regulation or conversion process by the body. That is why I suggest trying niacinamide before increasing 5a-DHP dose. Niacinamide greatly increases NAD/NADH which is how it improves androgenic signalling.

If you feel tired later on in the day before the gym why not just take it preworkout with the caffeine instead? That how most of us have been using it anyway.

Another option you could try would be progesterone and dhea comobo in a 1:1 ratio. Progesterone will antagonize estrogen, increase allopreg, increase thyroid and regulate cortisol and the DHEA will convert into DHT (since progesterone will block the estrogen pathway) and counter any of the possible anti androgenic effects from higher dose progesterone.

Oh nah, I think you misunderstood me man.

I do take that stuff pre-workout!

Just been feeling tired during they gym and after though. Otherwise, I feel pretty fine throughout the day.

Iunno. We'll see what happens today.

[theshogun]

I agree with Tubzy!
Also Tubzy can you expand more on the DHEA and prog combo? I have DHEA and pregnenolone pills, progesterone cream and 5a-DHP drops at home.
Sounds weird but I think I feel better when I increase my estrogen a bit. I had really low E2 on both my blood tests.
This makes me curious of trying higher dose DHEA(like 25mg) which would normally convert into estrogen along with my 100mg preg and possibly progesterone cream.
Thoughts?

[Cdsnuts]

I agree with Tubzy!
Also Tubzy can you expand more on the DHEA and prog combo? I have DHEA and pregnenolone pills, progesterone cream and 5a-DHP drops at home.
Sounds weird but I think I feel better when I increase my estrogen a bit. I had really low E2 on both my blood tests.
This makes me curious of trying higher dose DHEA(like 25mg) which would normally convert into estrogen along with my 100mg preg and possibly progesterone cream.
Thoughts?

Estrogen definitely has a sweet spot that seems to be different for everyone. Crushing it completely is never a good thing as it's still needed in small amounts for a guy to function and feel his best.

[TubZy]

I agree with Tubzy!
Also Tubzy can you expand more on the DHEA and prog combo? I have DHEA and pregnenolone pills, progesterone cream and 5a-DHP drops at home.
Sounds weird but I think I feel better when I increase my estrogen a bit. I had really low E2 on both my blood tests.
This makes me curious of trying higher dose DHEA(like 25mg) which would normally convert into estrogen along with my 100mg preg and possibly progesterone cream.
Thoughts?

DHEA and preg? or DHEA and prog? Either one can work. They both helped me big time. Preg strongly converts directly in progesterone.

I found I can take progesterone when combined with DHEA, my libido goes up and stress goes way down. I also can sleep like a rock taken at any time compared to 5a-DHP when taken too late can be stimulating. Despite the bad rep progesterone gets for males it actually can be very beneficial. We know that progesterone and pregnenolone are both depleted in patients who either take or taken finasteride. High doses of oral progesterone were shown to increase DHT, T and increase prostate size while reducing estrogen. LH and FSH did not change so zero suppression. Human equivalent dose would be 200mg-400mg of progesterone.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

Both 5a-dhp and preg can increase progesterone, but you can try taking straight progesterone you will definitely feel it. It would be similar to 5a-dhp but safer since it is further up the chain. Any steroid that is closer to cholesterol in the hormonal chain is always going to be safer. Similar to 5a-dhp but more of euphoric type feeling and much stronger in terms of it will put out in terms of sleep. I used it prior to before 5a-DHP ever came out, I felt kinda of puffy after a few days so I dropped it and never took it again. When I added 5mg of DHEA with the progesterone dose the side effects went away, libido went up and I don't get puffy. The biggest help I found from pure progesterone is the resistance to stress and lasts much longer, stuff is more stronger than 5a-dhp IMO for that purpose. Since progesterone has strong estrogen anatagonism, adding DHEA will only go the DHT route leading to greater androgenic effects. Just make sure you eat enough carbs/sugar, progesterone can put you in a temporary hyperthyroid state if you are very deficient because it causes the other hormonal glands to regulate and normalize.

I assume using androsterone could work too instead of DHEA, but DHEA would be safer. Just experiment with some stuff and if you do, do not go over 15mg DHEA daily. So the most you can is 5mg split into 3 doses otherwise any more than that will go to estrogen. I would just start with pure progesterone and if you notice any similar anti androgenic type symptoms add the dhea in.

[theshogun]

Alright man, I have actually been rubbing progesterone cream on my ballsack before going to bed a few times in the last week and it seems to help.
I went overboard with DHEA last 2 days, took 25mg both times so I will lower it to 12.5mg. Also gonna take 50mg Pregnenolone, 5 drops 5a-DHP preworkout with 100mg caffeine and rubbing progesterone on my nutsack before sleep.

Sound good?

[TubZy]

Alright man, I have actually been rubbing progesterone cream on my ballsack before going to bed a few times in the last week and it seems to help.
I went overboard with DHEA last 2 days, took 25mg both times so I will lower it to 12.5mg. Also gonna take 50mg Pregnenolone, 5 drops 5a-DHP preworkout with 100mg caffeine and rubbing progesterone on my nutsack before sleep.

Sound good?

Yeah, that could work. I'm not a fan of progesterone creams 99% of them are underdosed and contain other parabens, fragrances, fillers etc. The best way is to find some that are dissolved in vitamin E, it not only is protected better but absorbs much better.

[theshogun]

Well the Preg,DHEA,Prog combo definitely seems to do something. That, combined with creatine, weightlifting and NoFap I walk around with supreme confidence. I feel a lot more social, girls stare at me and strike up conversations.
I also do daily mobility work, meditation and cold showers.
My diet is not great atm, I still eat grains like rice and gluten free oats to bulk up and gain weight. But no sugary crap, processed foods etc.
Wish I had more money to invest in herbs but that is just the situation atm

[Atticas]

Well the Preg,DHEA,Prog combo definitely seems to do something. That, combined with creatine, weightlifting and NoFap I walk around with supreme confidence. I feel a lot more social, girls stare at me and strike up conversations.
I also do daily mobility work, meditation and cold showers.
My diet is not great atm, I still eat grains like rice and gluten free oats to bulk up and gain weight. But no sugary crap, processed foods etc.
Wish I had more money to invest in herbs but that is just the situation atm

Ayyyyyyyyy, not much wrong with dat white rice tho fammmmm ;)

[5 alpha victim]

I'm pretty sure I've obliterated my estrogen using this stuff. Coming off my last R Andro cycle last month I have been using this daily in tune with pine pollen. I'm feeling bad ass but I've got a lot of the low estrogen sides.....Dry skin, sluggishness, etc.
Did the 5adhp obliterate your estrogen or did the R andro?

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[5 alpha victim]

DHEA and preg? or DHEA and prog? Either one can work. They both helped me big time. Preg strongly converts directly in progesterone.

I found I can take progesterone when combined with DHEA, my libido goes up and stress goes way down. I also can sleep like a rock taken at any time compared to 5a-DHP when taken too late can be stimulating. Despite the bad rep progesterone gets for males it actually can be very beneficial. We know that progesterone and pregnenolone are both depleted in patients who either take or taken finasteride. High doses of oral progesterone were shown to increase DHT, T and increase prostate size while reducing estrogen. LH and FSH did not change so zero suppression. Human equivalent dose would be 200mg-400mg of progesterone.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

Both 5a-dhp and preg can increase progesterone, but you can try taking straight progesterone you will definitely feel it. It would be similar to 5a-dhp but safer since it is further up the chain. Any steroid that is closer to cholesterol in the hormonal chain is always going to be safer. Similar to 5a-dhp but more of euphoric type feeling and much stronger in terms of it will put out in terms of sleep. I used it prior to before 5a-DHP ever came out, I felt kinda of puffy after a few days so I dropped it and never took it again. When I added 5mg of DHEA with the progesterone dose the side effects went away, libido went up and I don't get puffy. The biggest help I found from pure progesterone is the resistance to stress and lasts much longer, stuff is more stronger than 5a-dhp IMO for that purpose. Since progesterone has strong estrogen anatagonism, adding DHEA will only go the DHT route leading to greater androgenic effects. Just make sure you eat enough carbs/sugar, progesterone can put you in a temporary hyperthyroid state if you are very deficient because it causes the other hormonal glands to regulate and normalize.

I assume using androsterone could work too instead of DHEA, but DHEA would be safer. Just experiment with some stuff and if you do, do not go over 15mg DHEA daily. So the most you can is 5mg split into 3 doses otherwise any more than that will go to estrogen. I would just start with pure progesterone and if you notice any similar anti androgenic type symptoms add the dhea in.

I decided to end my 5adhp run today and would like to get your input on a couple of things. It's been one month and I'm pleased with the results. I was going to go for six weeks but I decided to stop at four because the lower estrogen levels seem to be causing some minor issues. Mainly mild fluid retention on the sides of my knee caps. I have been reading about joint issues in the knees eventually leading to fluid build up in that area. Seeing that low estrogen can be hard on the joints, I am assuming that the lower estrogen pushed a mild joint issue that was already a factor over the edge leading to the fluid retention.( I am sure intense sking every weekend and doing more squats to prepare for sking has not helped this issue either). I also seem to have "leveled out" with the benefits that I have seen from this so I figure its all of a more good time to stop and hit it with something else anyway. I'm by no means complaining. Overall the benefits outweighed this minor issue and I am not finished with 5adhp.

As far as how I proceed from here I figure I  have options. Do nothing other than the basic protocol for a solid month of herb cycling, healthy diet ect ect.. and let my estrogen levels
recover before doing anything else beyond the basic protocol

OR

Go right into a low dose R andro run (decided against androhard transdermal for now because I have extra R andro I would want to use up before purchasing additional DHT pro hormones) or a progesterone/ pregnenolone/DHEA run

In order to simplify things I'm always going to look at running androsterone and or epiandrosterone in its own category to be ran with nothing else (not even herb cycling). So I'm going to jump right into this or I'm going to try some combination of the prog,preg dhea protocol.

I'm not sure though what I want to do considering the main reason I stopped the 5adhp was because of estrogen reducing concerns which could also easily remain an issue on a R andro run or a prog/dhea or a preg/dhea run considering all of these things inhibit E. For the record I have ran R andro at 300MG per day for six weeks before with no joint/knee issues or other low E issues. So based on what I know thus far for me anyway 5MG of 5aDHP inhibits E more than 300MG of super R andro.

I apologise if this is a dumb question but If i am understand correctly running the DHEA with prog or preg is not to like "balance" estrogen in anyway by preventing it from going to low. Instead it's related to balancing thyroid and cortisol levels and to increase DHT while taking the preg or prog correct?

After my postive experience with 5adhp I'm feeling like the most logical thing to do at this point is to continue to increase things that we know remain low after taking a DHT inhibitor such as preg and prog. However reading in between the lines is leading me to think that preg and or prog will have a greater chance of leaving me in the semi tanked estrogen state that I'm currently in than R andro would....and I do want to continue to stay on something that we know knocks the shit out of PFS.

If I have to chill for a little while and take nothing it's not a major issue. What do you think?


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[5 alpha victim]

It can't hurt unless the caffeine is too much for you at this stage of the game.

When I tested it out I took it preworkout with caffeine and liked the effects.
I'm going to keep this in mind. I was a little worried that it could be to much for me at this point. I am deff going to add in the caffeine I'm just not sure exactly when.

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[Maxout777]

Did the 5adhp obliterate your estrogen or did the R andro?

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I think 5aDHP combined with Pine Pollen did it. Probably had lower E coming off the R Andro anyway, and then this knocked it down farther. Seems to be getting better though, was mainly just dry skin and sluggishness.

[5 alpha victim]

I think 5aDHP combined with Pine Pollen did it. Probably had lower E coming off the R Andro anyway, and then this knocked it down farther. Seems to be getting better though, was mainly just dry skin and sluggishness.
That's what I thought you said. 5adhp knocked my estrogen down more than R andro has in the past. I'm sure in your case coming off the R Andro and going right into the 5adhp contributed to this.

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[TubZy]

I decided to end my 5adhp run today and would like to get your input on a couple of things. It's been one month and I'm pleased with the results. I was going to go for six weeks but I decided to stop at four because the lower estrogen levels seem to be causing some minor issues. Mainly mild fluid retention on the sides of my knee caps. I have been reading about joint issues in the knees eventually leading to fluid build up in that area. Seeing that low estrogen can be hard on the joints, I am assuming that the lower estrogen pushed a mild joint issue that was already a factor over the edge leading to the fluid retention.( I am sure intense sking every weekend and doing more squats to prepare for sking has not helped this issue either). I also seem to have "leveled out" with the benefits that I have seen from this so I figure its all of a more good time to stop and hit it with something else anyway. I'm by no means complaining. Overall the benefits outweighed this minor issue and I am not finished with 5adhp.

As far as how I proceed from here I figure I  have options. Do nothing other than the basic protocol for a solid month of herb cycling, healthy diet ect ect.. and let my estrogen levels
recover before doing anything else beyond the basic protocol

OR

Go right into a low dose R andro run (decided against androhard transdermal for now because I have extra R andro I would want to use up before purchasing additional DHT pro hormones) or a progesterone/ pregnenolone/DHEA run

In order to simplify things I'm always going to look at running androsterone and or epiandrosterone in its own category to be ran with nothing else (not even herb cycling). So I'm going to jump right into this or I'm going to try some combination of the prog,preg dhea protocol.

I'm not sure though what I want to do considering the main reason I stopped the 5adhp was because of estrogen reducing concerns which could also easily remain an issue on a R andro run or a prog/dhea or a preg/dhea run considering all of these things inhibit E. For the record I have ran R andro at 300MG per day for six weeks before with no joint/knee issues or other low E issues. So based on what I know thus far for me anyway 5MG of 5aDHP inhibits E more than 300MG of super R andro.

I apologise if this is a dumb question but If i am understand correctly running the DHEA with prog or preg is not to like "balance" estrogen in anyway by preventing it from going to low. Instead it's related to balancing thyroid and cortisol levels and to increase DHT while taking the preg or prog correct?

After my postive experience with 5adhp I'm feeling like the most logical thing to do at this point is to continue to increase things that we know remain low after taking a DHT inhibitor such as preg and prog. However reading in between the lines is leading me to think that preg and or prog will have a greater chance of leaving me in the semi tanked estrogen state that I'm currently in than R andro would....and I do want to continue to stay on something that we know knocks the shit out of PFS.

If I have to chill for a little while and take nothing it's not a major issue. What do you think?


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Try this. Take progesterone and DHEA together around dinner time/before bed once a day. Start with 5mg of each (prog/DHEA). DHEA counters any anti androgenic activity prog has, but they also work in synergy because progesterone blocks the estrogen pathway and when DHEA is administered together the DHEA can only go the DHT route, which you want. You can either add back in 5a-DHP in or just take a break from it either way is fine. You are still going to get some downstream conversion of allopreg from the progesterone anyways.

If your estrogen is going too low back off on the doses. They are all based on a positive feedback mechanism in the body so regardless of what you are doing (and staying at physiological doses) you are only pushing your body back in the right direction.

I would say continue the herbs if they are helping (they work very similar to the hormones by modulating cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, DHT and prolactin) and try the prog/dhea combo. The only reason I got started on prog again is after I saw that study showing the oral prog increased T, DHT and prostate size big time.

R andro can help, but again if you stack too many anti estrogens together you have a good chance of tanking E especially with androsterone. It was shown that only 2mg of androsterone can inhibit aromatase up to 90%, which is probably why pine pollen works so well because it only needs to contain a small amount of androsterone to be effective.

[5 alpha victim]

Try this. Take progesterone and DHEA together around dinner time/before bed once a day. Start with 5mg of each (prog/DHEA). DHEA counters any anti androgenic activity prog has, but they also work in synergy because progesterone blocks the estrogen pathway and when DHEA is administered together the DHEA can only go the DHT route, which you want. You can either add back in 5a-DHP in or just take a break from it either way is fine. You are still going to get some downstream conversion of allopreg from the progesterone anyways.

If your estrogen is going too low back off on the doses. They are all based on a positive feedback mechanism in the body so regardless of what you are doing (and staying at physiological doses) you are only pushing your body back in the right direction.

I would say continue the herbs if they are helping (they work very similar to the hormones by modulating cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, DHT and prolactin) and try the prog/dhea combo. The only reason I got started on prog again is after I saw that study showing the oral prog increased T, DHT and prostate size big time.

R andro can help, but again if you stack too many anti estrogens together you have a good chance of tanking E especially with androsterone. It was shown that only 2mg of androsterone can inhibit aromatase up to 90%, which is probably why pine pollen works so well because it only needs to contain a small amount of androsterone to be effective.

Im sold. This will be the next thing I do outside of the normal protocol. 5mg of prog/dhea before bed. I decided I am going to hold off for just a little bit though just to recalibrate and to see how much if any of the improvements that I got from the 5adhp stick around after discontinuing.  Today is day three and besides my sleep going down a couple of notches I still feel like I'm still taking it. I think I remember reading on the Ray Pete forum somewhere that 5adhp may "stay in the cells". Not sure what that means but I am kinda hoping there is some truth to it.

I forgot that small amounts of androsterone is in pine pollen. Guess that explains why the pine pollen/5adhp combo crashed maxout's estrogen.

As of now are you taking the prog/dhea combo with 5adhp or have you dropped the 5adhp for now?

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[theshogun]

Can I get same effect from progesterone cream together with DHEA? I don't want to buy pills until I have used up the cream. It's Paraben free fyi

[TubZy]

Im sold. This will be the next thing I do outside of the normal protocol. 5mg of prog/dhea before bed. I decided I am going to hold off for just a little bit though just to recalibrate and to see how much if any of the improvements that I got from the 5adhp stick around after discontinuing.  Today is day three and besides my sleep going down a couple of notches I still feel like I'm still taking it. I think I remember reading on the Ray Pete forum somewhere that 5adhp may "stay in the cells". Not sure what that means but I am kinda hoping there is some truth to it.

I forgot that small amounts of androsterone is in pine pollen. Guess that explains why the pine pollen/5adhp combo crashed maxout's estrogen.

As of now are you taking the prog/dhea combo with 5adhp or have you dropped the 5adhp for now?

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I have been off 5a-DHP for about two weeks or so now. Cool man sounds good, keep it up. Well, topical 5a-dhp can prolon the half life longer since it stays in the skin rather than get processed through the liver and excreted which is much quicker. But overall, 5a-dhp, prog, preg, dhea etc. all upregulate your natural levels so as you are taking it you are still pushing the body in the right direction. I think you should be fine dropping 5a-dhp for now at least, while you are going to use prog

[TubZy]

Can I get same effect from progesterone cream together with DHEA? I don't want to buy pills until I have used up the cream. It's Paraben free fyi

You can, does the prog cream have vitamin E in it? That is the main concept, when prog is dissolved in vitamin E it penetrates very well in the membrane because of how soluble the vitamin E can enter the cell so it can carry prog deep into the cells, while creams usually sit on the top and don't penetrate that well and are even severely underdosed.

Actually, does your bottle have the amount of prog in it too a lot of them contain 0.1% or less? I would suggest checking out health natura's prog, it is the one I use as well you can also rub it on your gums and you will feel effects within minutes too (b/c of the vit E).

Simply Progesterone 1oz (http://www.healthnatura.com/category-s/1857.htm)

[5 alpha victim]

You can, does the prog cream have vitamin E in it? That is the main concept, when prog is dissolved in vitamin E it penetrates very well in the membrane because of how soluble the vitamin E can enter the cell so it can carry prog deep into the cells, while creams usually sit on the top and don't penetrate that well and are even severely underdosed.

Actually, does your bottle have the amount of prog in it too a lot of them contain 0.1% or less? I would suggest checking out health natura's prog, it is the one I use as well you can also rub it on your gums and you will feel effects within minutes too (b/c of the vit E).

Simply Progesterone 1oz (http://www.healthnatura.com/category-s/1857.htm)
Tubzy,

I am getting ready go jump on the prog cream at 5mg from the natural health place that you posted above. I was curious to know if you have ever tried any other prog supplements such as the prog suppletment from the lab in DC that sells the 5aDHP. If so I was just curious go know how the Prog cream compared to others in your experience.

Also I was wondering if you had any recommendations for where I should get the DHEA from. I have only tried DHEA once and just went to GNC to get it.

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[jacknap]

100%

That being said, some people have issues where these systems aren't regulating correctly (PFS). In these conditions isolated compounds can be great. But as the body heals, the isolated compounds should give way to include a more holistic approach to supplementation. For the most part getting the whole thing in is what we all should shoot for. This is a great example of why application of the correct diet can be so powerful.

yes i was just going to say that about collagen. also great for healing the gut, hair, nails, skin, glycine, and protein.

[TubZy]

Tubzy,

I am getting ready go jump on the prog cream at 5mg from the natural health place that you posted above. I was curious to know if you have ever tried any other prog supplements such as the prog suppletment from the lab in DC that sells the 5aDHP. If so I was just curious go know how the Prog cream compared to others in your experience.

Also I was wondering if you had any recommendations for where I should get the DHEA from. I have only tried DHEA once and just went to GNC to get it.

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I haven't b/c at the time it contained DMSO, however I tried the one from health natura which worked very well, its a serum so it is just suspended in vitamin E.

DHEA you can use pansterone from idea labs

[jacknap]

for someone who crashed from RU doesn't 5A-DHP have potential for a bad feedback loop? since it's just one piece of the puzzle?

any potential dangers in this compound at all?

why isn't preg sufficient? doesn't it convert to allopreg on it's own?

[jacknap]

I'm thinking of trying this cuz my sleep still sucks despite glycine, mag gly, skullcap, passionflower, l-theanine, ziziphus, chamomile AND melatonin lol
don't get me wrong it's closer to normal than it is than when I was at my worst.

why 5a-dhp though? Doesn't pregnanalone essentially do the same thing?

[basementdweller]

I see that 5a-DHP can reduce estrogen?

My estrogen is too low as it is, could taking DHEA along with 5a-DHP be a solution for this?

[Maxout777]

btw, after reading more of these posts, I see that 5a-DHP can reduce estrogen?

My estrogen is too low as it is, could taking DHEA along with 5a-DHP be a solution for this?

My guess is that your estrogen is probably low because your test is low. I would start the protocol normally, such as cleanse and then herbs for a bit before adding in DHP. Your E should then rise with your T and then you'll be more in the clear to run the DHP.

[basementdweller]

You're probably right. My LH and free T were very low after my crash, estrogen low but not THAT bad.

Guess I'll hold off on the DHP until I get myself a bit more stable, definitely got a little over-excited about it after reading people's reactions to it.

[Cdsnuts]

I just read on raypeatforum that DHP is implicated in causing breast cancer. Not sure how relevant this is to guys but still....

If that is going to make your head spin and give you negative thoughts, don't use it. You don't need anymore negative thoughts then you already have.