5a-DHP

[TubZy]

For all you DHT lovers, my buddy just came out with a new supplement that all PFS suffers could benefit from and is also right down the ally of all of us DHT lovers.

It's called 5a-DHP, a metabolite of progesterone that is not anti androgenic and can lower estrogen and prolactin (even at the receptor level) while increasing androgens like DHT and androsterone. It also has a positive feedback loop like pregnenolone and won't shut you down. It also will directly raise allopreg significantly.

I have been on it for the past 2 days and feel awesome on it. This is the only supplement I have been taking for the past month or so along with topical magnesium chloride.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/5a-dihydroprogesterone-5a-dhp-pro-hormone-and-neurosteroid-for-r-d.13743/

I wasn't going to post this cause I hate promoting supplements but this is one of the best things I tried since R andro.

[DrivenToRecover]

You've really felt positive results in just two days of taking? What kinds of things specifically?

[Cdsnuts]

For all you DHT lovers, my buddy just came out with a new supplement that all PFS suffers could benefit from and is also right down the ally of all of us DHT lovers.

It's called 5a-DHP, a metabolite of progesterone that is not anti androgenic and can lower estrogen and prolactin (even at the receptor level) while increasing androgens like DHT and androsterone. It also has a positive feedback loop like pregnenolone and won't shut you down. It also will directly raise allopreg significantly.

I have been on it for the past 2 days and feel awesome on it. This is the only supplement I have been taking for the past month or so along with topical magnesium chloride.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/5a-dihydroprogesterone-5a-dhp-pro-hormone-and-neurosteroid-for-r-d.13743/

I wasn't going to post this cause I hate promoting supplements but this is one of the best things I tried since R andro.

What are you feeling from this?

[Maxout777]

Count me in to find out more on this as well......interesting.

[TubZy]

You've really felt positive results in just two days of taking? What kinds of things specifically?

Yes, if you look in the forum thread that I posted to, you can see I have been logging it along with many other people. It's a direct metabolite so the effects happen immediate. It has an antidepressant effect, joints are drier, sleep like a rock, calmness/relaxation which is noticeable after 30 minutes of taking it, and increase in libido. It is probably the most effective thing I have taken to date. It also converts to the androgens we have been taking down stream so like DHT and androsterone. And of course the most important part it directly increases allopregnenolone significantly, which is from the anti depressant effect and relaxed type feeling. I guarantee this metabolite is why many people have recovered from progesterone.

5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) is a metabolite of progesterone through the action of the enzyme 5α-reductase (5-AR). It is an agonist of the progesterone receptor with similar potency to progesterone, and just like progesterone it is an agonist of the GABA receptor. As a result, 5α-DHP has been shown to possess a number of properties ascribed to progesterone, including anti-estrogenic, anti-prolactin, sedative, anxyolitic, anti-depressant, neuprotective, anti-aging, pro-metabolic, pro-thyroid, and anti-proliferative. Unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP is not a metabolic precursor to cortisol, estrogen and androsterone. However, due to its 5-AR derived nature 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) can serve as a pro-hormone to potent androgens such as DHT, androstanedione, and androsterone through a recently discovered alternative pathway. 5α-DHP is also a direct precursor to allopregnanolone and can elevate its levels even in cases of severely downregulated 5-AR activity due to stress, PUFA overload, or administration of 5-AR like finasteride or dutasteride. Finally, unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP seems to have little or no anti-androgenic effects.

[DrivenToRecover]

Is there any reason this stuff might be hard on your liver?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Is there any reason this stuff might be hard on your liver?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. And there are zero fillers. It's a super concentrated liquid solution with a dropper.

[TubZy]

Let me know if you guys try it. I really want to know the feedback from the PFS guys.

[DrivenToRecover]

I think I'm sold on adding it to the routine.

Any noticeable reductions in brain fog or better memory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

I think I'm sold on adding it to the routine.

Any noticeable reductions in brain fog or better memory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would imagine based upon the method of action and the downstream effects, yes, it would have very good effect on brain fog.

[TubZy]

I think I'm sold on adding it to the routine.

Any noticeable reductions in brain fog or better memory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Both and yes very noticeable. The main reason for brain fog is the decrease in allopreg...5a-DHP increases allopreg.

[Swill]

This stuff sounds well worth a try Tubzy, cheers for the heads up! Just put a order through but as I'm in the UK it will take a few weeks to get here. What dosage are you taking?

Hi by the way guys, long time no see :)

[TubZy]

This stuff sounds well worth a try Tubzy, cheers for the heads up! Just put a order through but as I'm in the UK it will take a few weeks to get here. What dosage are you taking?

Hi by the way guys, long time no see :)

Thanks brother! keep us posted. Some others from solve PFS and ray peat forum will be testing too. We should get some good feedback and we are addressing the underlying symptom IMO at least from this statement.

edit: yes and the dosage I take is anywhere from 5mg up to 30mg, but I found 15mg to be the sweet spot for me, could be different for you though, start at 5mg and see how you feel. I still got effects from 5mg but it seems dose dependent. I think my allopreg was so low that I need to take more than normal people at least on the forum.

Early animal studies and subsequent human ones showed that it is progesterone metabolites formed by the activity of the enzyme 5-AR that are primarily responsible for the beneficial effects of progesterone in the brain and in so many conditions. Administration of a 5-AR inhibitor like finasteride reliably lowers levels of not only DHT but also of 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone. The administratios of a 5-AR inhibitor abolished almost all positive effects of progesterone in the brain. This suggests that it is the 5-AR metabolites of progesterone such as 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone that are primarily responsible for the benefits of progesterone in all these conditions. Reductions in brain allopregnanolone are widely recognized as the single most important factor in mental health (especially depression, suicide, and the infamous "brain fog"). Virtually all SSRI drugs that have shown some effectiveness raise levels of allopregannolone in the brain. However, in people who are under stress, have neurological damage, have endured treatment with finsateride, or are simply loaded with PUFA the enzyme 5-AR is downregulated both in levels and in activity. As such, simply supplementing with progesterone may not have the desired effects of raising allopregnanolone.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks brother! keep us posted. Some others from solve PFS and ray peat forum will be testing too. We should get some good feedback and we are addressing the underlying symptom IMO at least from this statement.

edit: yes and the dosage I take is anywhere from 5mg up to 30mg, but I found 15mg to be the sweet spot for me, could be different for you though, start at 5mg and see how you feel. I still got effects from 5mg but it seems dose dependent. I think my allopreg was so low that I need to take more than normal people at least on the forum.

Early animal studies and subsequent human ones showed that it is progesterone metabolites formed by the activity of the enzyme 5-AR that are primarily responsible for the beneficial effects of progesterone in the brain and in so many conditions. Administration of a 5-AR inhibitor like finasteride reliably lowers levels of not only DHT but also of 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone. The administratios of a 5-AR inhibitor abolished almost all positive effects of progesterone in the brain. This suggests that it is the 5-AR metabolites of progesterone such as 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone that are primarily responsible for the benefits of progesterone in all these conditions. Reductions in brain allopregnanolone are widely recognized as the single most important factor in mental health (especially depression, suicide, and the infamous "brain fog"). Virtually all SSRI drugs that have shown some effectiveness raise levels of allopregannolone in the brain. However, in people who are under stress, have neurological damage, have endured treatment with finsateride, or are simply loaded with PUFA the enzyme 5-AR is downregulated both in levels and in activity. As such, simply supplementing with progesterone may not have the desired effects of raising allopregnanolone.

You've certainly had some great additions to add to the puzzle tubz, no doubt.

I'm wondering if once you start using this, if it will help your body naturally fix the problem over time or if it's going to be something that needs to be taken indefinitely. Either way it would be a great addition (if only for some short cycles) to the routine to help people along while they fix every other aspect of their system.

[DrivenToRecover]

Thats what I'm wondering as well.

Is it actually going to help up regulate everything or is it just a band aid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

I think I'm going to run this stuff on my next cycle. Maybe a little before to get a feel for it....I really don't need the mental boost that much ATM but I'm curious to try it anyway.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

You've certainly had some great additions to add to the puzzle tubz, no doubt.

I'm wondering if once you start using this, if it will help your body naturally fix the problem over time or if it's going to be something that needs to be taken indefinitely. Either way it would be a great addition (if only for some short cycles) to the routine to help people along while they fix every other aspect of their system.

I asked the same question and confirmed that is has a positive feedback loop just like pregnenolone does meaning it stimulates it's own synthesis instead of negative feedback loop causing shutdown. Not many hormones in the body have a positive feedback mechanism. So it would help fix the underlying problem, which is awesome and what we want.

Also, let me add that this isn't only mental, it's physical too, I feel harder all around and my joints are tight and I'm more vascular. So it's physical too. It increases endogenous DHT along with decreasing both estrogen and prolactin (circulating and receptor level)- no need to cycle it, your not shutting down anything in your body, but actually increasing it or restoring to homestasis.

Just like exogenous DHT can increase the body's own natural synthesis of DHT. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/dht-stimulates-its-own-synthesis.10433/ which is why I think I became more androgenic after taking a cycle of Superdrol.

Check this link out where I asked it (post number 116) about the positive feedback mechanism.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/5a-dihydroprogesterone-5a-dhp-pro-hormone-and-neurosteroid-for-r-d.13743/page-6

The studies I have seen show that 5a-DHP stimulated both progesterone synthesis and its own synthesis via 5-AR. So, that is the positive feedback mechanism. The last of negative feedback is a bit more speculative as it has not been tested extensively in vivo, but the few studies on mice and rats did not show 5a-DHP inhibiting any other hormones except estrogen and prolactin. So, at worst it is not inhibiting DHT/T production and at best it may raise endogenous DHT levels.

[Maxout777]

I asked the same question and confirmed that is has a positive feedback loop just like pregnenolone does meaning it stimulates it's own synthesis instead of negative feedback loop causing shutdown. Not many hormones in the body have a positive feedback mechanism. So it would help fix the underlying problem, which is awesome and what we want.

Also, let me add that this isn't only mental, it's physical too, I feel harder all around and my joints are tight and I'm more vascular. So it's physical too. It increases endogenous DHT along with decreasing both estrogen and prolactin (circulating and receptor level)- no need to cycle it, your not shutting down anything in your body, but actually increasing it or restoring to homestasis.

Just like exogenous DHT can increase the body's own natural synthesis of DHT. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/dht-stimulates-its-own-synthesis.10433/ which is why I think I became more androgenic after taking a cycle of Superdrol.

Check this link out where I asked it (post number 116) about the positive feedback mechanism.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/5a-dihydroprogesterone-5a-dhp-pro-hormone-and-neurosteroid-for-r-d.13743/page-6

The studies I have seen show that 5a-DHP stimulated both progesterone synthesis and its own synthesis via 5-AR. So, that is the positive feedback mechanism. The last of negative feedback is a bit more speculative as it has not been tested extensively in vivo, but the few studies on mice and rats did not show 5a-DHP inhibiting any other hormones except estrogen and prolactin. So, at worst it is not inhibiting DHT/T production and at best it may raise endogenous DHT levels.
TubZ,

How long does a single bottle last you? I'm placing an order here momentarily and I'm curious as to how much I'll need to get for a week, month, etc.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

TubZ,

How long does a single bottle last you? I'm placing an order here momentarily and I'm curious as to how much I'll need to get for a week, month, etc.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

A long time but it depends on the dose. The doses are literally little tiny drops. The 5a-DHP is just suspended in MCT oil so zero fillers or anything else.

There is 240 drops per bottle (240mg total). Each drop is 1mg.

Dose can be anywhere from 5mg up to 30mg or even more. I got results from 5mg but more prominent as I increased the dose. 30mg was VERY noticeable, but I don't think you really need that much I thinking of just staying in the 12-15mg per day range. Haidut (the guy who created it) claims to go up to 100mg with very drastic effects but he said no need to go that high. Like he said if your 5AR is working fine you will need less to get effects since allopreg is most likely at normal levels so any small increase will be more noticeable compared to someone like a PFS person who has very low levels and needs a higher dosage to bring them back into the body's normal levels again.

[Maxout777]

A long time but it depends on the dose. The doses are literally little tiny drops. The 5a-DHP is just suspended in MCT oil so zero fillers or anything else.

There is 240 drops per bottle (240mg total). Each drop is 1mg.

Dose can be anywhere from 5mg up to 30mg or even more. I got results from 5mg but more prominent as I increased the dose. 30mg was VERY noticeable, but I don't think you really need that much I thinking of just staying in the 12-15mg per day range. Haidut (the guy who created it) claims to go up to 100mg with very drastic effects but he said no need to go that high. Like he said if your 5AR is working fine you will need less to get effects since allopreg is most likely at normal levels so any small increase will be more noticeable compared to someone like a PFS person who has very low levels and needs a higher dosage to bring them back into the body's normal levels again.
Good deal. I'm going to give it a go, it was ordered this morning.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

A long time but it depends on the dose. The doses are literally little tiny drops. The 5a-DHP is just suspended in MCT oil so zero fillers or anything else.

There is 240 drops per bottle (240mg total). Each drop is 1mg.

Dose can be anywhere from 5mg up to 30mg or even more. I got results from 5mg but more prominent as I increased the dose. 30mg was VERY noticeable, but I don't think you really need that much I thinking of just staying in the 12-15mg per day range. Haidut (the guy who created it) claims to go up to 100mg with very drastic effects but he said no need to go that high. Like he said if your 5AR is working fine you will need less to get effects since allopreg is most likely at normal levels so any small increase will be more noticeable compared to someone like a PFS person who has very low levels and needs a higher dosage to bring them back into the body's normal levels again.

I'm going to run it just because. I don't ever recommend anything to anyone unless I have personal experience with it....I'm actually on a cycle right now 400mg/ Super4 andro and 200mg/R andro along with one cap of Epic unleashed daily....Gonna grab this and see what happens...

Everyone should report their experiences back here....

[DrivenToRecover]

I definitely will. Mine should come Wednesday.

As someone that could give a shit about my dick working for now & just wants normal mental function this has me psyched.

Tubz I'm curious if you feel its increased your baseline levels of anything.

Obviously the effects are strong soon after taking, but how do you feel..say the next morning before you've taken the dose for that day?

Noticeably still better from the dose 24 hrs before or no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

I should have mine on Wednesday as well and will report any findings. Looking forward to seeing this stuff in action.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

I'm sure this goes without saying, but whatever you guys do, don't veer from the path you've been on.....just add this in and watch....see what happens..

[Maxout777]

I'm sure this goes without saying, but whatever you guys do, don't veer from the path you've been on.....just add this in and watch....see what happens..
Oh definitely. I was a little hesitant to add this to my routine in the first place but I figured it couldn't hurt.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Oh definitely. I was a little hesitant to add this to my routine in the first place but I figured it couldn't hurt.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I'm interested as well....

I always had great results from PP's Andro Drive....the mental effects were fantastic. I'm curious to see if I notice anything from this because my baseline is pretty damn great...

[TubZy]

Yes, for sure don't abandon whatever you are doing now- just an add on. I also want to try adding in preg and dhea w/ it which supposedly enhances it more, but I want to continue trialing it solo now.

@driven yes man, I do feel better and sleep like a rock finally. The effect is similar to glycine but way way stronger and physical too. Feels similar to xanax (depending on dose) but without the memory and numbing issues, I actually notice the opposite (increase in memory, less anxiety) due to the decrease in stress and stress hormones. It's not like a drugged feeling, just a good, relaxed, anti stress, anti depressant type feeling.

For all the people that like androsterone (R andro) and DHT prohormones in general, the mental effects are similar except 5a-DHP is way more potent and no irritability.

[Cdsnuts]

Yes, for sure don't abandon whatever you are doing now- just an add on. I also want to try adding in preg and dhea w/ it which supposedly enhances it more, but I want to continue trialing it solo now.

@driven yes man, I do feel better and sleep like a rock finally. The effect is similar to glycine but way way stronger and physical too. Feels similar to xanax (depending on dose) but without the memory and numbing issues, I actually notice the opposite (increase in memory, less anxiety) due to the decrease in stress and stress hormones. It's not like a drugged feeling, just a good, relaxed, anti stress, anti depressant type feeling.

For all the people that like androsterone (R andro) and DHT prohormones in general, the mental effects are similar except 5a-DHP is way more potent and no irritability.

I'm curious to see what the physical effects are going to be.....

From what I'm reading, this stuff can actually serve as a pro-hormone to DHT and other potent androgens!! It seems like a pretty amazing steroid. I'm going to use it in place of R andro in the stack that I'm currently running and see what happens.

[TubZy]

I'm curious to see what the physical effects are going to be.....

From what I'm reading, this stuff can actually serve as a pro-hormone to DHT and other potent androgens!! It seems like a pretty amazing steroid. I'm going to use it in place of R andro in the stack that I'm currently running and see what happens.

Physical: my muscles are harder, more vascular, skin looks tighter, increase in body temp, increase in appetite, low water retention (it's pro thyroid so you get all the good metabolic advantages just like androsterone is)..basically all of the signs of low estrogen/prolactin/cortisol/serotonin and increase in DHT/androsterone etc.

I don't think it's going to be as powerful as R andro in terms of physical attributes. R andro is pretty strong BUT it also shuts you down mildy too. But you have to remember the dosage for R andro is much higher too. I would just stack em or stack it with some preg and dhea.

Would be great addition to any stack or just a standalone run year round to keep DHT levels high and the body in an natural androgenic state (mentally and physically)

progesterone has immune benefits and healing abilities which I'm sure you probably heard about by now

[Cdsnuts]

Physical: my muscles are harder, more vascular, skin looks tighter, increase in body temp, increase in appetite, low water retention (it's pro thyroid so you get all the good metabolic advantages just like androsterone is)..basically all of the signs of low estrogen/prolactin/cortisol/serotonin and increase in DHT/androsterone etc.

I don't think it's going to be as powerful as R andro in terms of physical attributes. R andro is pretty strong BUT it also shuts you down mildy too. But you have to remember the dosage for R andro is much higher too. I would just stack em or stack it with some preg and dhea.

Would be great addition to any stack or just a standalone run year round to keep DHT levels high and the body in an natural androgenic state (mentally and physically)

progesterone has immune benefits and healing abilities which I'm sure you probably heard about by now

Because of my herb cycling my body is in a high androgen state year round, 24/7. I don't know if I would stack it with R andro because that shit really makes my joints too dry. If what I'm reading is correct, this would increase those same symptoms.

In regards to the mental benefits, would you say they are much greater then the mental benefits from the R andro?

I'm just going to replace the R andro with the 5a-DHP and see what happens for the last half of this cycle. I"m guessing it would stack well with the super 4 andro.

[TubZy]

Because of my herb cycling my body is in a high androgen state year round, 24/7. I don't know if I would stack it with R andro because that shit really makes my joints too dry. If what I'm reading is correct, this would increase those same symptoms.

In regards to the mental benefits, would you say they are much greater then the mental benefits from the R andro?

I'm just going to replace the R andro with the 5a-DHP and see what happens for the last half of this cycle. I"m guessing it would stack well with the super 4 andro.

OK, nice.

5a-DHP much much greater than R andro in terms of mental benefits. Androsterone can also cause some mild irritability at least for me, 5a-DHP does not, actually cause the opposite.

You can check the log on the orginal thread on Ray Peat, people have been trialing it and great feedback is coming in.

[Swill]

Ordered also a while back, but shipping to the UK will takes 20 days so should get it in around 2 weeks.

Looking forward to hearing how you guys find it!

[Maxout777]

Just received mine. Do you suggest taking it before sleep TubZ? If it has a relaxing effect I don't wanna be falling asleep during meetings at work lol.

[TubZy]

Ahh you could take it during the day, but if it's your first time and not sure about dosage I would take it with dinner to start. That is when I take mine lol. Take 15mg to start with dinner.

[Maxout777]

Ahh you could take it during the day, but if it's your first time and not sure about dosage I would take it with dinner to start. That is when I take mine lol. Take 15mg to start with dinner.
This is grade A shit TubZ. Grade fucking A.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

This is grade A shit TubZ. Grade fucking A.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

You tried it?? what did you notice??

[Cdsnuts]

This is grade A shit TubZ. Grade fucking A.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Wow! Tell....tell....

[Maxout777]

You tried it, what did you notice??


Mental benefits within 30 minutes. Genuinely happy and easy going....sang along to songs and acted a fool. Also genuinely looked forward to the gym and eating tonight. Relaxed and easy going and happy.....three ways to describe it.

I highly doubt it was placebo affect either because I really didn't know what to expect going into it. Pretty awesome though. Gonna use again tomorrow and report back again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Mental benefits within 30 minutes. Genuinely happy and easy going....sang along to songs and acted a fool. Also genuinely looked forward to the gym and eating tonight. Relaxed and easy going and happy.....three ways to describe it.

I highly doubt it was placebo affect either because I really didn't know what to expect going into it. Pretty awesome though. Gonna use again tomorrow and report back again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Mental clarity was kinda insane too. Very PH feeling.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Very exciting! I'm looking forward to giving this a run.....

[TubZy]

Mental benefits within 30 minutes. Genuinely happy and easy going....sang along to songs and acted a fool. Also genuinely looked forward to the gym and eating tonight. Relaxed and easy going and happy.....three ways to describe it.

I highly doubt it was placebo affect either because I really didn't know what to expect going into it. Pretty awesome though. Gonna use again tomorrow and report back again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Haha no placebo, that exactly how I feel. I even went up to 30mg just to see and definitely noticed it. If your are just relaxing, the first thing you will notice is music sounds 20x better and you just feel good as hell and relaxed..no stress etc. It also has an antidepressant effect too, like I got really excited about shit again like watching a certain movie, video game etc. I also felt like doing things like prior to PFS again like going out and shit cause my stress and anxiety from the years of PFS basically went away, which kinda bothered me

The best part about it is you can keep using it and it will stimulate your body's own pregnenolone and progesterone synthesis, which are both pretty much eliminated from fin, so the effects should essentially get even better over time.

[Cdsnuts]

I just checked my status and it said it was out for delivery.....today. Thing is, I already got today's mail, and nothing...I'm really hoping this doesn't turn into a big thing.....

But man...based upon the reviews you guys are giving it, I'm going to be feeling super human!!!

[DrivenToRecover]

Oh my God. The feels!

Fuckkkk yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Oh my God. The feels!

Fuckkkk yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You too???

[DrivenToRecover]

Its so good!!

Just reading what you guys are experiencing has me like smiling ear to ear as mine is kicking in & I'm feeling the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Of course mine gets lost in the mail.....smh

[TubZy]

I just checked my status and it said it was out for delivery.....today. Thing is, I already got today's mail, and nothing...I'm really hoping this doesn't turn into a big thing.....

But man...based upon the reviews you guys are giving it, I'm going to be feeling super human!!!

Probably will be there tomm, that happens to me all the time with USPS. I ordered two bottles too, mine should be here tomm.

Glad both you guys like it! @driven @max

[DrivenToRecover]

CD that exact thing happened to mine yesterday.

This Definitely feels like the afterglow from a hard workout, but much stronger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

You guys are psyching me up to try this...

This added to the things that I do on a daily basis sounds like it's going to take me to an even higher level which again I didn't think was possible... Every time I think I've hit the top I end up going a little higher!

Feeling good naturally never gets old...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

I think I'm sold on adding it to the routine.

Any noticeable reductions in brain fog or better memory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, the brain fog is from low allopreg levels. Depending on how low or down regulated yours are, it is dose dependent. That is why I say experiment with the dose, some need more than others.

5a-DHP is a direct precursor to allopreg.

[DrivenToRecover]

You guys are psyching me up to try this...

This added to the things that I do on a daily basis sounds like it's going to take me to an even higher level which again I didn't think was possible... Every time I think I've hit the top I end up going a little higher!

Feeling good naturally never gets old...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Wim + MJ + 5a-DHP...good lord lol


One of English's big focuses was about getting yourself in the right mindset for recovery... taking this stuff daily I could definitely see the cumulative effect of feeling 100x more positive could expedite healing greatly. Along with all of the other listed benefits.

Much love for this one Tubz

[Cdsnuts]

Wim + MJ + 5a-DHP...good lord lol


One of English's big focuses was about getting yourself in the right mindset for recovery... taking this stuff daily I could definitely see the cumulative effect of feeling 100x more positive could expedite healing greatly. Along with all of the other listed benefits.

Much love for this one Tubz
You know I was thinking the exact same thing... lol

Nothing beats stacking the feel goods

What dose did you start with?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[bizzbee]

Hey Tubzy,

I just ordered some yesterday. I was wondering if you see any difference in size and fullness down there. People suffering from PFS tend to have saggy, atrophied genitals. Has this area improved as well? Aside from libido increases?

[Cdsnuts]

Hey Tubzy,

I just ordered some yesterday. I was wondering if you see any difference in size and fullness down there. People suffering from PFS tend to have saggy, atrophied genitals. Has this area improved as well? Aside from libido increases?
How you making out biz??

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DrivenToRecover]

You know I was thinking the exact same thing... lol

Nothing beats stacking the feel goods

What dose did you start with?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
I knew you were haha

20 mg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

This is the most action this forum has seen in a long time

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[bizzbee]

Compared to how I was just 4 years ago I would say... much, much better. Just need to reach that last 20% or so and I'm home.


How you making out biz??

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Hey Tubzy,

I just ordered some yesterday. I was wondering if you see any difference in size and fullness down there. People suffering from PFS tend to have saggy, atrophied genitals. Has this area improved as well? Aside from libido increases?

Fuller and more relaxed, it's pretty anti estrogenic and anti prolactin so it definitely helps. It's also anti-stress (increases GABA) so those three right there should help. I notice a libido boost from it after I take it, but anything that increases GABA is going to stimulate luteininzing hormone and make your balls hang lower and fuller.

Pregnenlone at 100mg-150mg per day should really help that part you are referring though, my ball hangs really low (it acts like natural HCG). I was taking that prior to trialing 5a-DHP and that 100mg of pregnenolone and 5mg of dhea completely restored my sex drive, it was very high, boners 24/7. The only reason I stopped it is b/c I wanted to trial 5a-DHP solo. I'm thinking about adding it back in with the 5a-DHP now though as they all work in synergy and should increase the androgenic effects according to Haidut so it can't hurt at all.

5a-DHP also has physical effects too, which you should notice within the next few days if you keep taking it. More vascular, tighter waist, harder muscles etc. all of the signs of increased DHT. Finding the right dose is the harder part, especially with PFS ppl.

*Also I'm not sure what the rest of you guys are taking, but if you are taking anything anti estrogenic (i.e androsterone) with 5a-DHP you can actually tank your estrogen levels too much causing zero libido, fatigue etc.. A guy on RP was taking a few other natural anti estrogenic supplements along with 5a-DHP and his estrogen levels were in the negative range so just be careful. That is another reason to include pregnenlone to backfill any of the hormones that are missing.

[Atticas]

You guys are psyching me up to try this...

This added to the things that I do on a daily basis sounds like it's going to take me to an even higher level which again I didn't think was possible... Every time I think I've hit the top I end up going a little higher!

Feeling good naturally never gets old...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Naturally?

I thought this stuff was a steroid/pro-hormone?

If it's not, sign me upppppppppppppp

[Atticas]

Hey Tubzy,

I just ordered some yesterday. I was wondering if you see any difference in size and fullness down there. People suffering from PFS tend to have saggy, atrophied genitals. Has this area improved as well? Aside from libido increases?

I suffer from this plus sunken in eyes and loose facial skin.

Got the muscles part back though because I looooooooove working out and CDN's herb list helped give my energy back.

[DrivenToRecover]

Naturally?

I thought this stuff was a steroid/pro-hormone?

If it's not, sign me upppppppppppppp

Why would that stop you?

[Atticas]

Why would that stop you?

I don't want to be associated with steroids or prohormones outside of doctor's suggestion

I took them once that I know of at the recommendation of Dr. Eugene Shippen, but I personally just don't want to attribute my body and hard work with unnatural means.

[TubZy]

I suffer from this plus sunken in eyes and loose facial skin.

Got the muscles part back though because I looooooooove working out and CDN's herb list helped give my energy back.

If you are really really bad try this:

100-150mg oral pregnenolone with breakfast
15-20mg of 5a-DHP with dinner
cut out all polyunsaturated fats and use coconut oil for everything (cooking/eating etc.)
continue with the herbs
topical magnesium chloride (to support proper enzyme conversion for the hormones) AM and PM

Preg will also help your skin since it increases micro-circulation. Preg will also increases the conversion from T4 to T3, which should help your thyroid.

- - - Updated - - -


Naturally?

I thought this stuff was a steroid/pro-hormone?

If it's not, sign me upppppppppppppp

It is a steroid and also a neurosteroid. Your body naturally produces it and also has a positive feedback mechanism. Your not going to get big on this stuff- if that is what you think. And it's not "unnatural" either.

[Atticas]

If you are really really bad try this:

100-150mg oral pregnenolone with breakfast
15-20mg of 5a-DHP with dinner
cut out all polyunsaturated fats and use coconut oil for everything (cooking/eating etc.)
continue with the herbs
topical magnesium chloride (to support proper enzyme conversion for the hormones) AM and PM

Preg will also help your skin since it increases micro-circulation. Preg will also increases the conversion from T4 to T3, which should help your thyroid.

- - - Updated - - -



It is a steroid and also a neurosteroid. Your body naturally produces it and also has a positive feedback mechanism. Your not going to get big on this stuff- if that is what you think. And it's not "unnatural" either.

So it's not a steroid in the sense of something like tren, clen, dianabol....... or anything that would get me banned from an athletic event?

[DrivenToRecover]

I don't want to be associated with steroids or prohormones outside of doctor's suggestion

I took them once that I know of at the recommendation of Dr. Eugene Shippen, but I personally just don't want to attribute my body and hard work with unnatural means.

Nobody's going to fault you for taking something that helps mate. & trust me it does!

Tubz isn't coconut oil a mild 5-ar inhibitor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Nobody's going to fault you for taking something that helps mate. & trust me it does!

Tubz isn't coconut oil a mild 5-ar inhibitor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, to an extent, but the benefits out weight the mild inhibition of it (which I never personally witnessed). I was scared of it for a long time, but I felt better on it especially when you are taking other hormones. Anything that increases metabolism is going to increase enzyme conversion enhancing downstream effects (similar to magnesium).

Coconut oil increases metabolism (thyroid via T3). T3 regulates 5AR and is androgenic, anti-estrogenic along with also increasing androgen receptors. It also contains a similar natural chemical similar to pregnenolone.

Polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils are estrogenic, anti thyroid and inflammatory- avoid them.

Fin really slowed down our thyroid badly due to the increase in estrogen, prolactin, cortisol and serotonin, which makes sense since thyroid (T3) is androgenic. This is my personal opinion, but I think the reason why everyone's digestion is so screwed up and also immune issues, b/c when the metabolism is slowed from the thyroid being suppressed and body temp is not adequate, candida can grow, not enough HCL acid for digestion, parasites, pathogens etc.

Bacteria/fungus etc. can't survive in high temperature heat (like your optimal body temps or higher)- just like when you get a "fever" when your sick.

Also the increased cortisol levels suppress the immune system. So it is just a viscous circle.

DHT increases body temp via thyroid. DHT is very PRO thyroid, which a lot of it comes down to the "fat loss" effect of DHT and similar androgens. I notice it all the time but when my DHT levels are higher I sweat way more and can eat whatever the fuck I want and stay lean as hell.

And for all you R-andro users androsterone actually is a thyroid mimetic https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/androsterone-androgenic-anti-estrogenic-thyromimetic-neurosteroid.12614/



T3 and androgen receptors
Direct regulation of androgen receptor-associated protein 70 by thyroid hormone and its receptors. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412801)

[TubZy]

So it's not a steroid in the sense of something like tren, clen, dianabol....... or anything that would get me banned from an athletic event?

No, they would have to test specifically for it and even if they did I doubt it would be out of range unless you were taking extremely high doses.

Are you a competitive athlete?

[Atticas]

No, they would have to test specifically for it and even if they did I doubt it would be out of range unless you were taking extremely high doses.

Are you a competitive athlete?

No. I've just always wanted to stay natural when it comes to my body and weightlifting... at least until I've reached say my mid-thirties or so...

I realize I can't say I'm spotless anymore since taking oral testosterone-E recommended by Dr. Eugene Shippen once upon a time, but I still really wanna try and stay clean and natural now.

So yea, I'm down for trying natural things... if this is natural and not considered an illegal substance, I might try this as well.

Where do you buy it at?

[DrivenToRecover]

Yeah, to an extent, but the benefits out weight the mild inhibition of it (which I never personally witnessed). I was scared of it for a long time, but I felt better on it especially when you are taking other hormones. Anything that increases metabolism is going to increase enzyme conversion enhancing downstream effects.

Coconut oil increases metabolism (thyroid via T3). T3 regulates 5AR and is androgenic, anti-estrogenic along with also increasing androgen receptors. It also contains a similar natural chemical similar to pregnenolone.

Fin really slowed down our thyroid badly due to the increase in estrogen, prolactin, cortisol and serotonin, which makes sense since thyroid (T3) is androgenic. This is my personal opinion, but I think the reason why everyone's digestion is so screwed up and also immune issues, b/c when the metabolism is slowed from the thyroid being suppressed and body temp is not adequate, candida can grow, not enough HCL acid for digestion, parasites, pathogens etc.

Also the increased cortisol levels suppress the immune system. So it is just a viscous circle.

T3 and androgen receptors
Direct regulation of androgen receptor-associated protein 70 by thyroid hormone and its receptors. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412801)

Grass fed tallow is my personal cooking oil...still mostly saturated & low PUFA

Is there any sort of resource out there that talks about how strongly things actually inhibit 5-ar? I've wanted to start taking tumeric/curcumin because its an amazing natural anti-inflammatory, but again its a mild 5-ar inhibitor.

I definitely agree with the thyroid points you made. A few weeks post-crash my TSH was measured at 37.

I didn't realize t3 regulated 5 alpha...I do hope the fact that I have to take pig thyroid doesn't keep me from recovering at all. I've heard some back and forth as to weather pig thyroid and human thyroid are bio-identical.

[Atticas]

So if these are steroids or prohormones or whatever..... how is that website allowed to sell them?

lol I'm so confused about where exactly the line is drawn now between natural and unnatural with supplement companies

[holyhead]

I just got the 5a dhp today...Long story short..Finasteride as all but destroyed my physical well being..160lbs for 15 years..Avid runner who keeps food journal..Since quiting have gained over 40lbs of weird fluid like filled flab all around waist, love handle and thigh areas..Unbelievable difference..Used to run over 5miles in 45mins on my treadmill..Now can barley make it 2 miles..Energy gone, mental side effects are crippling, aniexty, depression, suicidal thoughts ect..Its a nightmare but don't have the more common sexual side effects, just physical and mental..So far the physical sides seem permenant and are only worsning with time..I continue to get larger, its like you swell..Breast and chest also larger like stomach area but not gynomastica..Just like fluid filled..Now I was told its estrogen, you need to get on an anti estrogen like Letrozole..Then I was told to try clomid and then was even told by others that they did this and got way worse! I am about to die already from this shit you cannot function properly physically anymore..Its like the effects of the hormone dht in the body are completely gone..My hair has also turned to shit and gotten very fine as I have dubbed it Old lady hair or Straw hair..Its like burnt up the texture has totally changed from before taking this shit..Then I was even told by others who have these similar symptoms that they in fact had Low estrogen instead of high! All I know is I am screwed up big league...I am gonna try to get bloods done by direct labs soon myself as I can't find an endo who will even see me for this they don't recognize the condition....

[TubZy]

I just got the 5a dhp today...Long story short..Finasteride as all but destroyed my physical well being..160lbs for 15 years..Avid runner who keeps food journal..Since quiting have gained over 40lbs of weird fluid like filled flab all around waist, love handle and thigh areas..Unbelievable difference..Used to run over 5miles in 45mins on my treadmill..Now can barley make it 2 miles..Energy gone, mental side effects are crippling, aniexty, depression, suicidal thoughts ect..Its a nightmare but don't have the more common sexual side effects, just physical and mental..So far the physical sides seem permenant and are only worsning with time..I continue to get larger, its like you swell..Breast and chest also larger like stomach area but not gynomastica..Just like fluid filled..Now I was told its estrogen, you need to get on an anti estrogen like Letrozole..Then I was told to try clomid and then was even told by others that they did this and got way worse! I am about to die already from this shit you cannot function properly physically anymore..Its like the effects of the hormone dht in the body are completely gone..My hair has also turned to shit and gotten very fine as I have dubbed it Old lady hair or Straw hair..Its like burnt up the texture has totally changed from before taking this shit..Then I was even told by others who have these similar symptoms that they in fact had Low estrogen instead of high! All I know is I am screwed up big league...I am gonna try to get bloods done by direct labs soon myself as I can't find an endo who will even see me for this they don't recognize the condition....

Please let us know when you take the 5a-DHP and give us some feedback. I would suggest starting with 15mg with dinner.

[Cdsnuts]

Fuller and more relaxed, it's pretty anti estrogenic and anti prolactin so it definitely helps. It's also anti-stress

*Also I'm not sure what the rest of you guys are taking, but if you are taking anything anti estrogenic (i.e androsterone) with 5a-DHP you can actually tank your estrogen levels too much causing zero libido, fatigue etc.. A guy on RP was taking a few other natural anti estrogenic supplements along with 5a-DHP and his estrogen levels were in the negative range so just be careful. That is another reason to include pregnenlone to backfill any of the hormones that are missing.

My estrogen is on the low side now, thankfully. I think this would stack well with the 4 andro I'm currently running....we shall see...hopefully today

[Cdsnuts]

I don't want to be associated with steroids or prohormones outside of doctor's suggestion

I took them once that I know of at the recommendation of Dr. Eugene Shippen, but I personally just don't want to attribute my body and hard work with unnatural means.

Like the docs that recommended propecia?

My man...I understand what you're trying to do, it's admirable, but you're telling me that if they came out with a hormone that cured PFS overnight, you wouldn't take it? This is the same difference. These hormones are an a means to an end. No one would be judging you, and even if they were, why do you care?

And these hormones are natural in the fact that they are naturally occurring in the body, unlike Superdrol, Trest, etc, etc. And believe me, you still have to work very hard regardless of whether you're taking hormones or not. The muscle doesn't just put itself there when you start taking them.


Don't let your recovery be hampered by your own dogma.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, to an extent, but the benefits out weight the mild inhibition of it (which I never personally witnessed). I was scared of it for a long time, but I felt better on it especially when you are taking other hormones. Anything that increases metabolism is going to increase enzyme conversion enhancing downstream effects (similar to magnesium).

Coconut oil increases metabolism (thyroid via T3). T3 regulates 5AR and is androgenic, anti-estrogenic along with also increasing androgen receptors. It also contains a similar natural chemical similar to pregnenolone.

Polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils are estrogenic, anti thyroid and inflammatory- avoid them.

Fin really slowed down our thyroid badly due to the increase in estrogen, prolactin, cortisol and serotonin, which makes sense since thyroid (T3) is androgenic. This is my personal opinion, but I think the reason why everyone's digestion is so screwed up and also immune issues, b/c when the metabolism is slowed from the thyroid being suppressed and body temp is not adequate, candida can grow, not enough HCL acid for digestion, parasites, pathogens etc.

Bacteria/fungus etc. can't survive in high temperature heat (like your optimal body temps or higher)- just like when you get a "fever" when your sick.

Also the increased cortisol levels suppress the immune system. So it is just a viscous circle.

DHT increases body temp via thyroid. DHT is very PRO thyroid, which a lot of it comes down to the "fat loss" effect of DHT and similar androgens. I notice it all the time but when my DHT levels are higher I sweat way more and can eat whatever the fuck I want and stay lean as hell.

And for all you R-andro users androsterone actually is a thyroid mimetic https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/androsterone-androgenic-anti-estrogenic-thyromimetic-neurosteroid.12614/



T3 and androgen receptors
Direct regulation of androgen receptor-associated protein 70 by thyroid hormone and its receptors. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412801)

Drops mic.....walks off stage.

[Cdsnuts]

So if these are steroids or prohormones or whatever..... how is that website allowed to sell them?

lol I'm so confused about where exactly the line is drawn now between natural and unnatural with supplement companies

Because they are not illegal steroids. They are naturally occurring and considered a food grade supplement, such as DHEA.

[Atticas]

Because they are not illegal steroids. They are naturally occurring and considered a food grade supplement, such as DHEA.

Very well.

I'm gonna have a talk with a buddy or two about this supplement and see what they have to say about it as well.

Looks like you may have one more test subject very soon gents.

[Moonman]

Hey guys, I've been following along as well. I will be ordering it soon and have a few PFS buddies that just got theirs today. I'll keep you updated.

[Maxout777]

Still getting the feeling today. Slept like a rock last night. I'll be the first to say this isn't a cure by any means, but added to the right regimen it's a dangerous weapon to have in your arsenal.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Swill]

The mental benefits with this sound immense, can't wait for it to arrive!

You guys noticing much sexually in the way of libido etc?

[TubZy]

Drops mic.....walks off stage.

:D:D:D

- - - Updated - - -


Still getting the feeling today. Slept like a rock last night. I'll be the first to say this isn't a cure by any means, but added to the right regimen it's a dangerous weapon to have in your arsenal.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Yeah for sure. It's just one of the actual things that is helping the underlying condition not just putting a bandaid over it. No one has really used long term yet, I think I'm one of the only users using it for about week and half now. So in theory, benefits should continue and improve over time too.

Try going up to 30mg today or even 45mg and watch the magic happen haha. I just got my two bottles today and just took 30mg in water.:)

[TubZy]

Grass fed tallow is my personal cooking oil...still mostly saturated & low PUFA

Is there any sort of resource out there that talks about how strongly things actually inhibit 5-ar? I've wanted to start taking tumeric/curcumin because its an amazing natural anti-inflammatory, but again its a mild 5-ar inhibitor.

I definitely agree with the thyroid points you made. A few weeks post-crash my TSH was measured at 37.

I didn't realize t3 regulated 5 alpha...I do hope the fact that I have to take pig thyroid doesn't keep me from recovering at all. I've heard some back and forth as to weather pig thyroid and human thyroid are bio-identical.

Check out this link on coconut oil: Coconut Oil and Testosterone: One of the Best T-Boosting Fats (https://www.anabolicmen.com/coconut-oil-testosterone/)

That is what changed my mind and decided to give it a try after debating back and fourth. Even if it does by a small amount, CO increases T too, so the increase in T could offset any small amount of DHT inhibition.

NOTE: Many guys are scared that coconut oil would lower DHT levels by inhibiting 5-a reductase enzyme (I was too at first). This study which shows how free form lauric-acid and myristic-acid did just that in-vitro is often cited along with the claims. However, it’s important to note that the fats used in the study were free fatty-acids, which are the type found in rancid oils. What you normally get by eating non-rancid coconut oil is the triglyceride form, which I doubt causes similar effects. Yesterday night while I was trying to find more confirmation to that, I stumbled upon an old forum thread where a guy had followed a “Dr. Ray Peat inspired diet” with coconut oil and butter being the main sources of fat, going from a normal diet to that, his T levels had increased by 28% and DHT by 31% in 6 months. If coconut oil would lower DHT, I doubt the results would look like that.

I wouldn't take curcumin/tumeric is made me worse when I took it a while ago. It can degrade the AR too aside from being a 5 alpha inhibitor. It can also increase serotonin too.

You should be okay with the pig thyroid, but just try to optimize your own thyroid and metabolism production through diet and supplements.

[TubZy]

Also I was talking with Haidut about AAS use and he mentioned this to me:

Here is something else to consider that I think every bodybuilder taking steroids should pay attention to. Feel free to post on the other forums as well. It seems that chronic administration of AAS decreases allopregnanolone levels in the brain and is probably responsible for the anxiety and irritability reported by users of AAS. So, it is crucial for these people to supplement with pregnenolone, progesterone or of course 5a-DHP to keep allopregnanolone levels at a healthy level.
Enhanced fear responses in mice treated with anabolic androgenic steroids. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Testosterone fails to change cued fear responses although it induces excessive contextual fear associated with corticolimbic 5alpha-reductase-type-I mRNA expression downregulation in the prefrontal cortex, hippocampus, and basolateral amygdala glutamatergic neurons. Increased fear responses are abolished by normalizing corticolimbic allopregnanolone levels with allopregnanolone treatment (8 micromol/kg) or selective brain steroidogenic stimulants, including S-norfluoxetine (1.8 micromol/kg). Agents that increase corticolimbic allopregnanolone levels may be beneficial in treating AAS users.

Neurosteroids regulate mouse aggression induced by anabolic androgenic steroids. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Anabolic androgenic steroid abuse triggers impulsive aggression, anxiety, and depression, which suggests a dysfunction of GABAergic neurotransmission. Socially isolated female mice that have received testosterone propionate (1.45 micromol/kg) treatment for 3 weeks during social isolation express aggression, neurosteroid downregulation, and changes in the cortical mRNA expression of several gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor subunits (alpha1, alpha2, gamma2 are decreased by 30-40%, and alpha4 and alpha5 are increased by 50%). Administration of allopregnanolone or the potent selective brain steroidogenic stimulant S-norfluoxetine, in doses (1.8-3.6 micromol/kg) that fail to inhibit 5-hydroxytryptamine reuptake, normalizes olfactory bulb neurosteroid level downregulation and abolishes aggression. This work underscores the role of neurosteroids in the regulation of aggression elicited by testosterone propionate in socially isolated female mice."

Neurosteroid biosynthesis regulates sexually dimorphic fear and aggressive behavior in mice. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Animal models of psychiatric disorders, including socially isolated male mice or mice that receive a long-term treatment with anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS), show abnormal behaviors such as altered fear responses and aggression. In these animal models, the cortico-limbic mRNA expression of 5alpha-RI is regulated in a sexually dimorphic manner. Hence, in selected glutamatergic pyramidal neurons of the cortex, CA3, and basolateral amygdala and in granular cells of the dentate gyrus, mRNA expression of 5alpha-RI is decreased, which results in a downregulation of allopregnanolone content. In contrast, 5alpha-RI mRNA expression fails to change in the striatum medium spiny neurons and in the reticular thalamic nucleus neurons, which are GABAergic. By manipulating allopregnanolone levels in glutamatergic cortico-limbic neurons in opposite directions to improve [using the potent selective brain steroidogenic stimulant (SBSS) S-norfluoxetine] or induce (using the potent 5alpha-RI inhibitor SKF 105,111) behavioral deficits, respectively, we have established the fundamental role of cortico-limbic allopregnanolone levels in the sexually dimorphic regulation of aggression and fear. By selectively targeting allopregnanolone downregulation in glutamatergic cortico-limbic neurons, i.e., by improving the response of GABA(A) receptors to GABA, new therapeutics would offer appropriate and safe management of psychiatric conditions, including impulsive aggression, irritability, irrational fear, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorders, and depression."

And finally, it seems that it is allopregnanolone that contributes to success in competition, especially in "low status" (subordinate) males.
Allopregnanolone promotes success in food competition in subordinate male rats. - PubMed - NCBI
"...RESULTS: AlloP (1 mg/kg, i.v.) increased drinking time and aggressive behavior in subordinate rats, with a positive correlation between these behaviors. The subcutaneous injection (17 mg/kg) also increased drinking time in subordinate animals. Serum testosterone concentration was higher in dominant compared to subordinate rats, and correlated with drinking time and weight.
CONCLUSIONS: AlloP increased drinking time and aggressive behavior, and the correlation indicates a relationship between an anxiolytic effect and aggressive behavior."




Also on pregnenolone:

Yep, I think pregnenolone has two main benefits for AAS users - 1) it helps raise allopregnanolone and 2) it seems to protect the gonads from atrophy induced by AAS and pituitary suppression. In castrated animals pregnenolone is capable of maintaining completely normal fertility and tissue androgen levels even though serum androgen levels are undetectable. Not sure if you knew but back in the 1940s pregnenolone was used to cure infertility in men by restoring normal sperm production. Something similar happens in AAS users and pregnenolone is very beneficial.

Male fertility: review of 200 semen analyses and the use of pregnenolone therapy. - PubMed - NCBI
[Pregnenolone in male sterility caused by oligospermia]. - PubMed - NCBI
The spermatogenic activity of delta 5-pregnenolone and of its esters. - PubMed - NCBI
Pregnenolone in male infertility. - PubMed - NCBI
Adjuvant use of pregnenolone in seminal inadequacy. - PubMed - NCBI
[Pregnenolone in male sterility caused by oligospermia]. - PubMed - NCBI
The effect of pregnenolone on reinitiation and maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypophysectomized rats. - PubMed - NCBI

[Cdsnuts]

So I got my stuff and took 10 mgs as soon as I got it just to see the effects.... about 45 minutes later I was driving and I had this strong urge to take a nap. This stuff made me super relaxed... Almost too relaxed. I just took another 15 milligrams and I'm going to sit down in front of the TV... I have a feeling I'm going to sleep like a baby tonight. If anything increased Sleep Quality can only be helpful to any underlying health conditions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Atticas]

So I got my stuff and took 10 mgs as soon as I got it just to see the effects.... about 45 minutes later I was driving and I had this strong urge to take a nap. This stuff made me super relaxed... Almost too relaxed. I just took another 15 milligrams and I'm going to sit down in front of the TV... I have a feeling I'm going to sleep like a baby tonight. If anything increased Sleep Quality can only be helpful to any underlying health conditions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

How you feelin now big guy?

[Cdsnuts]

How you feelin now big guy?

Pretty good.....chief.

I haven't really noticed much as of yet aside from feeling drowsy, but it hasn't even been 24 hours, so I'm not making any determinations so quickly. I may not really notice much seeing as I'm not operating on a deficit like alot of other guys are. Only time will tell.

Tubz...you dosing just once per day at night?

[TubZy]

Pretty good.....chief.

I haven't really noticed much as of yet aside from feeling drowsy, but it hasn't even been 24 hours, so I'm not making any determinations so quickly. I may not really notice much seeing as I'm not operating on a deficit like alot of other guys are. Only time will tell.

Tubz...you dosing just once per day at night?

Try 30mg with dinner later on tonight. If you still don't get a 100% good effect just keep dosing higher after that- once a day and just do it when you are just chilling at home. Maybe since you are recovered the lower doses will have less of an impact.

Yeah I just take one dose a day at dinner. If I feel stressed for some reason during the day I will take a small amount at the time too. I just added the preg and dhea back in this morning with the 5a-DHP too.

[Cdsnuts]

Try 30mg with dinner later on tonight. If you still don't get a 100% good effect just keep dosing higher after that- once a day and just do it when you are just chilling at home. Maybe since you are recovered the lower doses will have less of an impact.

Yeah I just take one dose a day at dinner. If I feel stressed for some reason during the day I will take a small amount at the time too. I just added the preg and dhea back in this morning with the 5a-DHP too.

I'll give it a shot. But if that's the case, this could end up being costly. At 30mg/day that bottle will be good for 8 days. Damn.

You notice good sleep from this stuff? While I felt drowsy, I didn't really notice any great effect on sleep at the doses I did.

I also noticed that you put it in water first before taking it. Aren't you worried about losing small amounts that may stick to the glass? I just drop it right in my mouth.....

[TubZy]

I'll give it a shot. But if that's the case, this could end up being costly. At 30mg/day that bottle will be good for 8 days. Damn.

You notice good sleep from this stuff? While I felt drowsy, I didn't really notice any great effect on sleep at the doses I did.

Yeah just give it a shot at 30mg tonight mixed in water after you eat and just see how you feel- not saying you have to stay at that dose.

Sleepwise yeah I do, I never wake up at all throughout the night and can fall asleep way quicker at night to (super easier to wind down).

[TubZy]

i think what would be also to try is the actual 5AR enzyme is supplement form- could be interesting. But it seems a lot of the mental effects via 5AR come from 5a-DHP. Haidut supposely has access to it. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/idealabs-comments-and-suggestions.9806/page-22#post-195262

"Yes, you can buy enzymes like 5-AR, 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD from chemical companies. There is even a study showing antidepressive effect of administering 5-AR enzyme directly. I can't find the study right now but I think it was in regards to 5-AR administration raising levels of 5a-DHP and allopregnanolone."

[Cdsnuts]

i think what would be also to try is the actual 5AR enzyme is supplement form- could be interesting. But it seems a lot of the mental effects via 5AR come from 5a-DHP. Haidut supposely has access to it. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/idealabs-comments-and-suggestions.9806/page-22#post-195262

"Yes, you can buy enzymes like 5-AR, 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD from chemical companies. There is even a study showing antidepressive effect of administering 5-AR enzyme directly. I can't find the study right now but I think it was in regards to 5-AR administration raising levels of 5a-DHP and allopregnanolone."

There was never any doubt in my mind that the mental effects from PFS were due to destroyed allo levels. 10 years ago, we didn't have access to any of these novel chemicals. Today, well that's a different story.

Anything is worth a try in my book. If I had access to it years ago, I would have tried it hands down without a second thought. The problem with all of this stuff is that you'll get guys thinking they can just take a few things and be sorted out when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Once their neurosteroids are tanked, and they stay tanked for awhile, there are downstream changes that happen based upon these lack of neurosteroids. I think even with administration of 5ar, things will still take awhile to get back to a decent baseline. Putting your body in the best possible health opens it up to receiving these chemicals in a positive way.

You gonna give it a shot? Personally for me it's not something I'm going to try. I didn't really need to try the 5a DHP either but you guys were making it sound so good and I'm a sucker for trying new things.....lol.

I'm going to do 30mg tonight when I'm relaxing and see what happens.

[holyhead]

I just got the 5a dhp today...Long story short..Finasteride as all but destroyed my physical well being..160lbs for 15 years..Avid runner who keeps food journal..Since quiting have gained over 40lbs of weird fluid like filled flab all around waist, love handle and thigh areas..Unbelievable difference..Used to run over 5miles in 45mins on my treadmill..Now can barley make it 2 miles..Energy gone, mental side effects are crippling, aniexty, depression, suicidal thoughts ect..Its a nightmare but don't have the more common sexual side effects, just physical and mental..So far the physical sides seem permenant and are only worsning with time..I continue to get larger, its like you swell..Breast and chest also larger like stomach area but not gynomastica..Just like fluid filled..Now I was told its estrogen, you need to get on an anti estrogen like Letrozole..Then I was told to try clomid and then was even told by others that they did this and got way worse! I am about to die already from this shit you cannot function properly physically anymore..Its like the effects of the hormone dht in the body are completely gone..My hair has also turned to shit and gotten very fine as I have dubbed it Old lady hair or Straw hair..Its like burnt up the texture has totally changed from before taking this shit..Then I was even told by others who have these similar symptoms that they in fact had Low estrogen instead of high! All I know is I am screwed up big league...I am gonna try to get bloods done by direct labs soon myself as I can't find an endo who will even see me for this they don't recognize the condition....

This has done nothing...

[Cdsnuts]

This has done nothing...

Um...were you expecting it to that quickly? No silver bullet my friend.

Do you know what you should be doing?

[holyhead]

Verge of mental breakdown..Getting bloods soon gonna try anything at this point..Maybe clomid anythin..nobody can tell you shit about this terrible condition..So far nothing has even touched these physical side effects..

[TubZy]

Verge of mental breakdown..Getting bloods soon gonna try anything at this point..Maybe clomid anythin..nobody can tell you shit about this terrible condition..So far nothing has even touched these physical side effects..

You tried 5a-DHP and what dose? Have you tried 150mg preg orally?

- - - Updated - - -


There was never any doubt in my mind that the mental effects from PFS were due to destroyed allo levels. 10 years ago, we didn't have access to any of these novel chemicals. Today, well that's a different story.

Anything is worth a try in my book. If I had access to it years ago, I would have tried it hands down without a second thought. The problem with all of this stuff is that you'll get guys thinking they can just take a few things and be sorted out when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Once their neurosteroids are tanked, and they stay tanked for awhile, there are downstream changes that happen based upon these lack of neurosteroids. I think even with administration of 5ar, things will still take awhile to get back to a decent baseline. Putting your body in the best possible health opens it up to receiving these chemicals in a positive way.

You gonna give it a shot? Personally for me it's not something I'm going to try. I didn't really need to try the 5a DHP either but you guys were making it sound so good and I'm a sucker for trying new things.....lol.

I'm going to do 30mg tonight when I'm relaxing and see what happens.

Yeah I know, I guess we shall see lol. Did you try 30mg yet? Probably PFS ppl allopreg was so low that we got such a good effect from it. But still try the high dose let me know either positive or negative

[DrivenToRecover]

i think what would be also to try is the actual 5AR enzyme is supplement form- could be interesting. But it seems a lot of the mental effects via 5AR come from 5a-DHP. Haidut supposely has access to it. https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/idealabs-comments-and-suggestions.9806/page-22#post-195262

"Yes, you can buy enzymes like 5-AR, 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD from chemical companies. There is even a study showing antidepressive effect of administering 5-AR enzyme directly. I can't find the study right now but I think it was in regards to 5-AR administration raising levels of 5a-DHP and allopregnanolone."

I guess I always assumed that supplementing with exogenous 5-ar had either been tried & didn't work to restore levels or it just wasn't possible?

Seems like this would've been the first thing people had tried


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

So I decided to take 20mg prework out instead, along with 200mg of caffeine. My work out was very focused and very calm and collected. I seemed to have an enhanced muscle to brain connection as I felt each and every contraction very fully from start to finish. It was all very controlled and the weight seemed to move easier. It was enjoyable. I'll report back on any effects on my sleep tonight, if any.

[TubZy]

I guess I always assumed that supplementing with exogenous 5-ar had either been tried & didn't work to restore levels or it just wasn't possible?

Seems like this would've been the first thing people had tried


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's very hard to find/get. I never seen anyone got a hold of it before though. I actually don't even know any company that can actually sell it directly to a consumer also.

- - - Updated - - -


So I decided to take 20mg prework out instead, along with 200mg of caffeine. My work out was very focused and very calm and collected. I seemed to have an enhanced muscle to brain connection as I felt each and every contraction very fully from start to finish. It was all very controlled and the weight seemed to move easier. It was enjoyable. I'll report back on any effects on my sleep tonight, if any.

Yeah that is a great stack, it's pretty common the forum. 5a-DHP keeps the GABA up while caffeine increases the dopamine. I will have to try it.

You should take a look into niacinamide and caffeine stack too. Niacinamide boost GABA and caffeine increases dopamine so you get the energy without any anxiety or jitters.

[Cdsnuts]

I guess I should have mentioned that I always take 6g of Beta alanine prework out as well. Beta alanine is also a gaba agonist.

I'm wondering how my sleep will be later and if the compound will still have an effect many hours after administration. I imagine it should based on it's actions in the brain, but you never know.

[Maxout777]

I guess I should have mentioned that I always take 6g of Beta alanine prework out as well......
FWIW, I took it with the preworkout I use, Conqu3r Unleashed by OL.....it was quite the feeling fellas. My sleep was pretty much back to normal but this took it to the next step (the 5a-DHP, not my preworkout lol). Solid mental boost continues throughout the day on day 3. Could be from better sleep, but it feels like this helped me make the jump from 90% mentally to about 95℅ and close to 100% sometimes during the day.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

FWIW, I took it with the preworkout I use, Conqu3r Unleashed by OL.....it was quite the feeling fellas. My sleep was pretty much back to normal but this took it to the next step (the 5a-DHP, not my preworkout lol). Solid mental boost continues throughout the day on day 3. Could be from better sleep, but it feels like this helped me make the jump from 90% mentally to about 95℅ and close to 100% sometimes during the day.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I also noticed that in noisy situations like crowded environments or if Im in a rush, Im like very very calm now and relaxed instead of being worked up easily from little stressors. Did you notice anything like that?

[Cdsnuts]

FWIW, I took it with the preworkout I use, Conqu3r Unleashed by OL.....it was quite the feeling fellas. My sleep was pretty much back to normal but this took it to the next step (the 5a-DHP, not my preworkout lol). Solid mental boost continues throughout the day on day 3. Could be from better sleep, but it feels like this helped me make the jump from 90% mentally to about 95℅ and close to 100% sometimes during the day.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Nice. Yeah...I think I'm going to just dose prework out instead of at night because of the benefits there. If I'm going to dose it once per day, that's what I'd prefer. I really enjoyed the focus I got from it. I wanted to keep going but my legs were toasted....I know it's gonna be DOMs from hell tomorrow seeing as I'm already feeling it and It's only been an hour or so since I've worked out.

[Maxout777]

I also noticed that in noisy situations like crowded environments or if Im in a rush, Im like very very calm now and relaxed. Did you notice anything like that?
YES. 100℅ noticed this....I was at a Christmas party the other day and it was like the old days. Pure relaxation and confidence and ease of talking to people unlike with PFS where you lose track of your words and never feel calm to have a good conversation. This even helps my Tinnitus a good bit. It's unfair for me to blame my Tinnitus on PFS like some people have a claim to considering I was field artillery in the Corps and I'm an avid hunter.... but whatever the cause, it definitely seems to have helped.

[Cdsnuts]

I also noticed that in noisy situations like crowded environments or if Im in a rush, Im like very very calm now and relaxed instead of being worked up easily from little stressors. Did you notice anything like that?

I'll second that. I don't tend to get worked up that much anymore since I've been Wim Hoffing it, but I know what you mean.

[Cdsnuts]

YES. 100℅ noticed this....I was at a Christmas party the other day and it was like the old days. Pure relaxation and confidence and ease of talking to people unlike with PFS where you lose track of your words and never feel calm to have a good conversation. This even helps my Tinnitus a good bit. It's unfair for me to blame my Tinnitus on PFS like some people have a claim to considering I was field artillery in the Corps and I'm an avid hunter.... but whatever the cause, it definitely seems to have helped.
PFS absolutely caused my tinnitus, for what it's worth

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

PFS absolutely caused my tinnitus, for what it's worth

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
It may very well have caused mine but my background makes it hard for me to say that. I definitely didn't notice it before PFS, but I also wasn't hyper sensitive to finding everything wrong with me before I crashed either. Mine comes and goes....doesn't really affect my life too much.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Yes, I can definitely say my tinnitus went away. I would really notice at night before bed. It's crazy how many symptoms are allopreg related like shit you would never think of.

We all need to stay on this for a couple weeks to months to really gauge it.

Another idea is we should try using it topically too. A guy who didn't respond to 5a-DHP orally responded really well to topically on the RP forum.

We think topically the skin enzymes convert it way better so we should try the topical route too. Just like how topical pregnenolone is more androgenic when applied to the skin due to the high amount of 5 alpha reductase enzymes.

[Cdsnuts]

Where do you get a topical version?

And how high of a dose have you heard of someone taking before?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

It's the same version just put it on your skin.

Haidut has tested up to 100mg. I went up to 50

[Cdsnuts]

It's the same version just put it on your skin.

Haidut has tested up to 100mg. I went up to 50
Did you notice anything more or does it have diminishing returns?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[bizzbee]

Just got my 5-alpha dhp today. Took about 15 mgs just two minutes ago with a little water. Let's see what happens.

[Atticas]

Just got my 5-alpha dhp today. Took about 15 mgs just two minutes ago with a little water. Let's see what happens.

Andddddd??

[Atticas]

That settles it guys...

I'm buying the stuff tomorrow. If I get it this coming week, I will post results and keep everyone up to date.

Considering how far my body's come along already, I really feel like I have one of the best shots at recovery here in the forums. Hopefully this is the final kick my body really needs to get me closer to the final goal. Although I've generally been against PHs or any type of steroid for myself, like CDN said, this could be means to an end here.

Maxxxout777, thanks for continuing to put up with me and my messages. It gives me extra hope to hear from you and see that someone who started off on CDN's protocol at pretty much exactly the same time is doing so well after the same amount of time. Guess it's finally time I pull the trigger as well.

[TubZy]

Did you notice anything more or does it have diminishing returns?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I noticed a bigger effect, for sure. It is just not feasible money wise long term but the bigger doses may stimulate endogenous pregnenolone and progesterone more which would be a very good thing. I think you should try pairing pregneolone with it.

[Maxout777]

I noticed a bigger effect, for sure. It is just not feasible money wise long term but the bigger doses may stimulate endogenous pregnenolone and progesterone more which would be a very good thing. I think you should try pairing pregneolone with it.
So what's the deal with pregnenolone? I've always heard to avoid it due to the lack of knowledge as to what it does (or maybe I'm getting it confused with progesterone)....but it seems to have helped you tremendously. I would be hesitant to add anything else either way but I was just curious.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[bizzbee]

And....all I felt was drowsiness. Sleep was a little deeper but not more refreshing. I think I'm far enough along in recovery where I won't benefit much from this at this point.

[Cdsnuts]

And....all I felt was drowsiness. Sleep was a little deeper but not more refreshing. I think I'm far enough along in recovery where I won't benefit much from this at this point.
It could be coincidence at this point but the past two times I've taken it I have not gotten very restful sleep. Quite the opposite actually.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Swill]

Just had tracking e-mail that my bottle should be here either tomorrow or tues... hella quick shipping to UK considering I only ordered last Sunday.

Will update you guys as to whether I notice anything

[Cdsnuts]

I'm wondering if now that I'm recovered if I should even be f****** with the enzyme at all in any form. I mean if anything this stuff should only have positive effects but I guess you never know.
I'm going to play around with dosages and times for the remainder of the bottle and see what happens

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Just had tracking e-mail that my bottle should be here either tomorrow or tues... hella quick shipping to UK considering I only ordered last Sunday.

Will update you guys as to whether I notice anything

Hey man. Been awhile. Hit me up. Let me know how you're doing.

[TubZy]

I'm wondering if now that I'm recovered if I should even be f****** with the enzyme at all in any form. I mean if anything this stuff should only have positive effects but I guess you never know.
I'm going to play around with dosages and times for the remainder of the bottle and see what happens

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Allopreg is actually on a U shaped curve. So TOO much allopreg can actually not have favorable effects. I wonder if that is the reason. Although, people on other forums who never had PFS got good results with the same dose. Try it topically just to see.

[Cdsnuts]

Allopreg is actually on a U shaped curve. So TOO much allopreg can actually not have favorable effects. I wonder if that is the reason. Although, people on other forums who never had PFS got good results with the same dose. Try it topically just to see.
Like just smear a dose all over my skin somewhere?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DrivenToRecover]

Allopreg is actually on a U shaped curve. So TOO much allopreg can actually not have favorable effects. I wonder if that is the reason. Although, people on other forums who never had PFS got good results with the same dose. Try it topically just to see.

Maybe this explains what I've been feeling as well.

I felt great the first time or two that i dosed the stuff & since i've felt weird.

Like an overly stimulated yet mildly foggy feeling.

I think i might try a smaller dose thats topical as well for today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Maybe this explains what I've been feeling as well.

I felt great the first time or two that i dosed the stuff & since i've felt weird.

Like an overly stimulated yet mildly foggy feeling.

I think i might try a smaller dose thats topical as well for today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This ^^^^^ Very confusing feeling

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Maybe this explains what I've been feeling as well.

I felt great the first time or two that i dosed the stuff & since i've felt weird.

Like an overly stimulated yet mildly foggy feeling.

I think i might try a smaller dose thats topical as well for today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could be ill see if I can dig out the study too.

Yeah try topically it seems to keep absorption more stable over a long period of time.

Also maybe try dosing once or twice a week.

[Cdsnuts]

What are the side effects of too much Allo?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DrivenToRecover]

This ^^^^^ Very confusing feeling

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I can pinpoint the foggy feeling to the back of my head.

Same place that used to feel foggy after a post-orgasm mini crash.

It doesn't seem likely to me that I went from low allo to too high in just a few days?

The guy on ray peat talked about going up to 100mg and just feeling the positive effects more strongly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Everything still going normal for me. Not sure if it's the DHP or its just normal healing that occurred when I started taking it but I'm going to continue taking it. I've never jumped past the 15mg dose point either.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

I'm going to test its effects with alcohol this afternoon....lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

So what's the deal with pregnenolone? I've always heard to avoid it due to the lack of knowledge as to what it does (or maybe I'm getting it confused with progesterone)....but it seems to have helped you tremendously. I would be hesitant to add anything else either way but I was just curious.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sent this via PM, but for anyone else check it out why I decided to switch to high dose pregnenolone and the benefits. i tried it a year ago for a week at a low dose and noticed nothing. After reading further on it I decided to give it another shot at a high dose and noticed the benefits.

Here are some studies on it and what it's good for.

Prevents suppression from AAS use
Anti cortisol
Increases allopreg
Increases DHEA and progesterone
Decreases cortisol
Increases metabolism (via thyroid conversion)
Increases bile receptors
Stabilizes blood sugar
Modulates immune system
Lowers estrogen and prolactin
Decrease stress response
Stimulates the AR

Check out these threads:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...eceptor.13293/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...tabolism.7969/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...nthesis.13868/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...control.10414/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...elanoma.10422/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...ehavior.11229/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...ophrenia.3225/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...agonist.10393/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...nal-crh.10105/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...eceptor.12412/


EDIT: WTF how come it doesnt display the entire link? Can you not post links here? Well this one works... http://intelegen.com/nutrients/pregnenolone_and_mental_function.htm

[TubZy]

Just did 15mg topically on veins on forearm, foot and lower stomach. Lets see if there is any difference

[Atticas]

Officially just bought mine. Should be in this week. Wish me luck guys, will post results

[Cdsnuts]

Just did 15mg topically on veins on forearm, foot and lower stomach. Lets see if there is any difference

Interested to see if you got anything out of this. I'm about to dose prework out again...20mg.

[DrivenToRecover]

Slept worse last night after trying 10mg topical.

& Sleep hasn't been an issue for me since the first week post crashing where I was still in full panic mode.

I think i will hold off on taking the stuff for a few days & reintroduce with smaller doses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Slept worse last night after trying 10mg topical.

& Sleep hasn't been an issue for me since the first week post crashing where I was still in full panic mode.

I think i will hold off on taking the stuff for a few days & reintroduce with smaller doses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah....I think you have to dose this stuff earlier in the day....try dosing it now and see how your sleep is tonight, or dose it preworkout. For me it seems to work better for sleep once it's been in my system doing what it needs to do.....

[TubZy]

Yeah....I think you have to dose this stuff earlier in the day....try dosing it now and see how your sleep is tonight, or dose it preworkout. For me it seems to work better for sleep once it's been in my system doing what it needs to do.....

Yup, same for me. I have never taken it past dinner time except last night and felt it was harder to fall asleep. So I am not planning to dose it any time past dinner anymore.

On the plus side I do like topical better seems to be much more stable rather than a short up and down period. For pre-workout, oral may be best since you want it in your system quick and fast acting.

[Cdsnuts]

Yup, same for me. I have never taken it past dinner time except last night and felt it was harder to fall asleep. So I am not planning to dose it any time past dinner anymore.

On the plus side I do like topical better seems to be much more stable rather than a short up and down period. For pre-workout, oral may be best since you want it in your system quick and fast acting.
Okay so you noticed that sleep is disrupted with this stuff as well... Do you find that you're sleeping better overall with this in your system?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Swill]

The stuff got here today, but coming out of a rough dose of man-flu and gunky as hell (first time i've been ill in ages, the herb rotation is fucking great for immunity) so gonna give it a couple days until I'm feeling 100% to take so I can properly assess its effects.

Sounds like dosing before training is the way to go, I'm an evening trainer so would dosing at around 6pm perhaps be a little late to drop it? If so could drop it 4:30/5 when leaving work. Was going to start with 15mg orally as a few people have said its their sweet spot.

[Maxout777]

The stuff got here today, but coming out of a rough dose of man-flu and gunky as hell (first time i've been ill in ages, the herb rotation is fucking great for immunity) so gonna give it a couple days until I'm feeling 100% to take so I can properly assess its effects.

Sounds like dosing before training is the way to go, I'm an evening trainer so would dosing at around 6pm perhaps be a little late to drop it? If so could drop it 4:30/5 when leaving work. Was going to start with 15mg orally as a few people have said its their sweet spot.

I dose 15mg orally between 4-4:30pm, usually workout around 5:00pm. Notice the same benefits as before and still sleep like a baby with no impact to sleep. Never tried to dose it any later than this however. I woke up once during the night last night, but that was the first time in ages and I don't attribute it to the 5a-DHP.

[Cdsnuts]

Prework out is the way to go with this stuff, no doubt. I had a fantastic work out today and I attribute the extra edge to the 5a DHP. I dosed 15mg prework out with 200mg 4 andro, 2 caps of Epic unleashed, a teaspoon of black ant extract, a teaspoon of beta alanine along with 100mgs of caffeine. My pumps were sick. I have never seen such striations in my shoulders before. As I'm typing this I still have a nice after glow from the work out. It feels good. The workout was solid and focused. I didn't want to stop. I think tomorrow I'll go up to 200mg of caffeine for an extra boost.

I'll see how sleep is tonight.

Tubz, you still seeing sleep benefits?

[DrivenToRecover]

I'm confused by these results...

Tubz ask the guy that sells the stuff if he can make sense of what we are finding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Prework out is the way to go with this stuff, no doubt. I had a fantastic work out today and I attribute the extra edge to the 5a DHP. I dosed 15mg prework out with 200mg 4 andro, 2 caps of Epic unleashed, a teaspoon of black ant extract, a teaspoon of beta alanine along with 100mgs of caffeine. My pumps were sick. I have never seen such striations in my shoulders before. As I'm typing this I still have a nice after glow from the work out. It feels good. The workout was solid and focused. I didn't want to stop. I think tomorrow I'll go up to 200mg of caffeine for an extra boost.

I'll see how sleep is tonight.

Tubz, you still seeing sleep benefits?

Yes, I am. I dose it pretty late last night and also topically which prolongs the effects. I think that was way too late and like maxout said I have been dosing around 4-6 pm timeframe.

I definitely suspect that too much allopreg is stimulating. Too much allopreg ironically causes similar symptoms of too low allopreg due to the U shaped curve.

I know Haidut did take up to 100mg of it but I'm pretty sure he takes his in the morning or during the day so maybe that is why he had no issue with sleep.

The feeling when you take it too close to bed time is like similar to taking an opiate. It has a relaxing and anti anxiety effect but along with a slightly stimulating effect which has to be the reason for the sleep issues.

For anyone trying it now, I would suggest taking it no later than 5pm, at least to start.

[Atticas]

Can't wait for this stuff to get in now.

This year I finally felt like I've worked alot of fatigue and depression off, and I've grown almost stronger than I ever have in the gym.

Today, felt sh*tty in the gym though and had a little bit of insomnia the other night.

Time to end this crap and finally get back to normal. COME ON 2017!! BE THE YEAR!!!

[TubZy]

Yup, confirmed. A few other members on RP said they had sleep issues taking it 45min- hour before bed too.

They are switching to anything earlier than 7pm or with dinner.

[English]

Hey Guys,

Was just replying to a PM that caught my attention and curiosity took me to this thread. I spent maybe an hour reading it all and it's great to hear of plenty of you recovering nicely. Maxout is an impressive example who has the right mindset and he's my pick for the next 100% recovered guy, but there will be plenty following over the next couple of years.
I just want to say that it is the right mindset that allows these compounds to work. I forget the guys name who is struggling big time and he took the 5a dhp and reported nothing happened. Note this guy is also saying that he is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. When a person is in this state of mind he is sending tens maybe hundreds of stress hormones (known and unknown) around the body and mind, blocking receptors and effectively stopping whatever compound from working, or else counteracting its affects.
I want to give you a heightened example of this. I was a cop for many years and one job i attended was a guy who was young and high on life, whistling away as he got in his car, he later reported feeling great that morning, he was successful, good looking and lifted regularly. He started his car and reversed over his toddler who unbeknown to him was playing in the drive after getting out through the internal garage door. This guy was immediately devastated and hopeless, wanting to kill himself he later spiralled into oblivion. Just before the time of the accident this guys T and DHT etc. would have been bouncing and it was still there just after the accident, yet he felt nothing but oblivion and hopelessness (obviously)
The example above is the same as PFS. Guy has massive challenge, is overwhelmed and feels the future is all but hopeless. Guy shrivels and dies.
So, just as it is impossible to recover naturally without the right mindset (looking forward to stuff, being calm and having belief in ones greatness) so it is also the case that to feel the affects of natural hormone/neurosteroid replacement one must also be happy and calm. The better the mindset the better the affect, whether increasing positive hormones naturally or unnaturally.
So the dude who is struggling and felt no affect should not feel downhearted, just means he should calm his mind, get control and do the basics right, then look to this stuff to assist.
Take this stuff by all means guys, but for it to work you must keep the basics up, and for those of you who are 80 or 90% fixed, to get the last 10% you must go back to normal life and stop reading about the entire topic of pfs. Even positive stuff still re-inforces a belief that you have it. Leave all talk of it for 3 months at a time and just occasionally come back to check on your mates and progress etc. When you are 100% like CD, fill your boots.
I keep saying this, but nobody seems to actually do it, yet i recall CD did this (from PH at the time), and so did i and we both came back fully recovered.

Food for thought, anyway, well done chaps, all the very best to you and family and a very Happy Christmas too.

[Atticas]

Hey Guys,

Was just replying to a PM that caught my attention and curiosity took me to this thread. I spent maybe an hour reading it all and it's great to hear of plenty of you recovering nicely. Maxout is an impressive example who has the right mindset and he's my pick for the next 100% recovered guy, but there will be plenty following over the next couple of years.

DON'T COUNT ME OUT YET BABY!!! THE 5a-DHP IS HERE!!!!

So excited to try this tomorrow!!! Will post results

[Cdsnuts]

DON'T COUNT ME OUT YET BABY!!! THE 5a-DHP IS HERE!!!!

So excited to try this tomorrow!!! Will post results
No one's counting you out buddy

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Atticas]

Idk what the verdict is on taking it pwo in the morning, BUT SCREW IT, I'm taking it tomorrow morning because right now my adrenaline is SUPER HIGH and I wanna KILL legs tomorrow

[Maxout777]

Idk what the verdict is on taking it pwo in the morning, BUT SCREW IT, I'm taking it tomorrow morning because right now my adrenaline is SUPER HIGH and I wanna KILL legs tomorrow
I think you'll be fine taking it in the morning. May just be a little too relaxed during the work day and may need some caffeine with it. Just be sure you've got all the other parts of your program in tune so that you get the best result from this stuff my man.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[rahaysa]

Hey Guys,

Was just replying to a PM that caught my attention and curiosity took me to this thread. I spent maybe an hour reading it all and it's great to hear of plenty of you recovering nicely. Maxout is an impressive example who has the right mindset and he's my pick for the next 100% recovered guy, but there will be plenty following over the next couple of years.
I just want to say that it is the right mindset that allows these compounds to work. I forget the guys name who is struggling big time and he took the 5a dhp and reported nothing happened. Note this guy is also saying that he is on the verge of a nervous breakdown. When a person is in this state of mind he is sending tens maybe hundreds of stress hormones (known and unknown) around the body and mind, blocking receptors and effectively stopping whatever compound from working, or else counteracting its affects.
I want to give you a heightened example of this. I was a cop for many years and one job i attended was a guy who was young and high on life, whistling away as he got in his car, he later reported feeling great that morning, he was successful, good looking and lifted regularly. He started his car and reversed over his toddler who unbeknown to him was playing in the drive after getting out through the internal garage door. This guy was immediately devastated and hopeless, wanting to kill himself he later spiralled into oblivion. Just before the time of the accident this guys T and DHT etc. would have been bouncing and it was still there just after the accident, yet he felt nothing but oblivion and hopelessness (obviously)
The example above is the same as PFS. Guy has massive challenge, is overwhelmed and feels the future is all but hopeless. Guy shrivels and dies.
So, just as it is impossible to recover naturally without the right mindset (looking forward to stuff, being calm and having belief in ones greatness) so it is also the case that to feel the affects of natural hormone/neurosteroid replacement one must also be happy and calm. The better the mindset the better the affect, whether increasing positive hormones naturally or unnaturally.
So the dude who is struggling and felt no affect should not feel downhearted, just means he should calm his mind, get control and do the basics right, then look to this stuff to assist.
Take this stuff by all means guys, but for it to work you must keep the basics up, and for those of you who are 80 or 90% fixed, to get the last 10% you must go back to normal life and stop reading about the entire topic of pfs. Even positive stuff still re-inforces a belief that you have it. Leave all talk of it for 3 months at a time and just occasionally come back to check on your mates and progress etc. When you are 100% like CD, fill your boots.
I keep saying this, but nobody seems to actually do it, yet i recall CD did this (from PH at the time), and so did i and we both came back fully recovered.

Food for thought, anyway, well done chaps, all the very best to you and family and a very Happy Christmas too.

U always inspire me with your words ENGLISH..

[Atticas]

I AM ENERGY. I AM THE ULTIMATE!!!!!

Lmao, forreal though. I feel insane.

Got up this morning way too early due to PFS related insomnia that seems to ALWAYS COME BACK as soon I start feeling good again. So I woke up today with like 5 hours of sleep and was just like "F*CK THIS"...

Got up, ate some food, took the 5a-DHP while I was playing a video game... and I slowly started to feel more and more aggressive.

Threw my gym clothes on... realized the sun was out... and the weather was like 30-40 degrees, but the sun was out (good source of vitamin D, nom'sayin), so I also said "F*CK THAT" and literally walked to the gym from my house in my shortest shorts. I had so much energy for some reason. I walked out and YEA, it was cold, but I was like "DON'T BE A B*TCH. JUST DO IT"

Felt SO AGGRESSIVE in the gym. Can still feel the pump from it. Was throwing stuff around, picking stuff up with ease, feeling ALPHA AF BRAHS. Skipped on dat insecure time bs.

So yea, one thing I can definitely say is this seems to have given me alot of energy and aggression so far... now we'll see how the rest of the day goes. Still haven't seen any other huge changes yet, but it's only been like 2 hours so yea

[TubZy]

Actually, some of the feedback on the other forum is they had better results with a small dose as in 1-3 drops (increase libido, energy etc.) compared to the higher doses were they noticed opposite effects (decreased libido, sleep problems, irritability etc.)

This stuff works but it's all about finding the right dosage for YOU. So experimenting is the best way I would say, there is no one shot bullet dosage.

[Swill]

Brief update of 2 days on 5a-DHP...

First dose was yesterday, 15 drops @ 4:30pm, and within about 45 minutes I was feeling extremely lethargic and tired, with the foggy yet stimulated feeling that others have mentioned here. Went out like a light at bedtime though.

Second dose today, dropped to 10 drops @ 4:00pm. This time didn't feel particularly lethargic or any of the negatives. Being blunt as I imagine that its what a lot of the PFS guys here would like to hear, got home to the wife and found I was like a dog in season, really mentally stimulated and had great sex... I always know i'm in a good place because i'm more of a dirty bastard than usual haha. Not getting overly excited as I have upswings from time to time and today was tongkat day on rotation, but just reporting how it is without analysis paralysis.

May try some even lower doses given your recommendation above Tubz, although 10 drops for me didn't give me the negatives I had at 15. Will keep you guys updated in a week or two.

[Swill]

One other thing I forgot to mention was when dosing the higher dose yesterday, I felt an occasional strange sensation in the back of the head/brain... Kinda a swelling/hot flush kinda pulsing feeling that came and went for the couple of hours after dosing... it wasn't painful, uncomfortable or anything really... just an odd sensation that happened. Not necessarily a cause/effect relationship maybe, but thought i'd mention this anecdotally.

[Maxout777]

It's funny you mention the lower dose Tubz. For what it's worth, when I first tried it and got the great kick out of it, I split my 15mg doses into three, 5mg doses. Took one after getting home from the office, one with my preworkout at the gym in the locker room, and one after the gym. I'm curious to try it again with a 5mg dose this afternoon to see if I can replicate the first original feeling.

[DrivenToRecover]

One other thing I forgot to mention was when dosing the higher dose yesterday, I felt an occasional strange sensation in the back of the head/brain... Kinda a swelling/hot flush kinda pulsing feeling that came and went for the couple of hours after dosing... it wasn't painful, uncomfortable or anything really... just an odd sensation that happened. Not necessarily a cause/effect relationship maybe, but thought i'd mention this anecdotally.

Yeah this is what I was feeling a few days back as well. Its just enough of a sensation to realize something feels weird at all.
No worries though, it went away for me in the last 3 days when I took a break from the stuff, and I'm sure it would also go away if you tapered your dose down and found your sweet spot.

Definitely feels like less is more...which I'm ok with lol. I was worried I might be tempted to drop a few hundred bucks on the stuff per month if higher doses = better results.

[Maxout777]

This afternoon's dose I went down to 7mg....felt the nice feel good results again. May drop it to 5mg tomorrow to see if I can replicate. Much more cost effective at 5mg/day lol.

[TubZy]

It's funny you mention the lower dose Tubz. For what it's worth, when I first tried it and got the great kick out of it, I split my 15mg doses into three, 5mg doses. Took one after getting home from the office, one with my preworkout at the gym in the locker room, and one after the gym. I'm curious to try it again with a 5mg dose this afternoon to see if I can replicate the first original feeling.

Yeah haha I know it's such a tricky supplement. I think there are a few reasons, one being the U shaped curved of allopreg, the positive feedback mechanism which basically means over time you would actually need less of a dose since your endogenous levels should start to restore and lastly we are all in completely different body states so some me need more some may need less etc.

But, yeah low dose could be better. I took just one drop with dinner today and I still got a pretty somewhat mild effect.

[Atticas]

So update, as a lot of you guessed, I got pretty calm throughout the rest of my 1st day on 5a-DHP. Felt good though.

Had an EXPLOSIVE morning workout though and felt just in general FULL of energy. So that was great.

We'll see how I sleep tonight... and then tomorrow, ON TO DAY 2 BABY!!

[English]

U always inspire me with your words ENGLISH..

Hey Rahaysa,

Thanks for that, i come back occasionally because i remember how good it was to hear from guys who had recovered and i took my own inspiration from them - to be fair it was mainly CD as most others who had recovered had fucked off to live their lives. I don't blame them and some day in the next 2 years i will finally fuck off for good. I would like to see a few others completely recover and carry it on. I think there should be an understanding on SS that if you recover as a result of information and inspiration gleaned from those who have recovered before you, then you have a duty to come back yourself when recovered and spend a year or two helping others achieve the same thing. Then you can go, stay, whatever.

I've tried my best to inspire and to give sound advice, i've made some mistakes and written some pretty douchy things too (in hindsight), but you're never gunna help dispel the myths surrounding this whole issue without having your hat in the ring.

It looks like CD is staying for good which is great for everyone and gives that thread of consistency, but it is very important that other fully recovered guys are there with him (at least for a while) as examples that if you listen to what he says, you will fully recover your health and happiness too.

This 5 A DHP stuff sounds like it might expedite the process somewhat (jury still out though), where the fuck was it 3 years ago!!!

[Atticas]

Ok, so last night, I woke up like less than 5 hours into sleep, so I think I might back down on the dosage today...

Probably not gonna go to bed till like 12-1pm, so I figure I'll take like 10 drops today around 3-4pm, unless anyone else has any better ideas.

*Edit* Btw, HOLY MORNING WOOD x'''D

[Maxout777]

Ok, so last night, I woke up like less than 5 hours into sleep, so I think I might back down on the dosage today...

Probably not gonna go to bed till like 12-1pm, so I figure I'll take like 10 drops today around 3-4pm, unless anyone else has any better ideas.

*Edit* Btw, HOLY MORNING WOOD x'''D
Have you tried dosing glycine for your insomnia? I had pretty much rid myself of sleep issues before trying it but it did nothing but help me.

[Atticas]

Have you tried dosing glycine for your insomnia? I had pretty much rid myself of sleep issues before trying it but it did nothing but help me.

No sir, I hadn't.

What dosage did you take of it?

[Maxout777]

No sir, I hadn't.

What dosage did you take of it?
6g 30 minutes before bed.

[TubZy]

Have you tried dosing glycine for your insomnia? I had pretty much rid myself of sleep issues before trying it but it did nothing but help me.

Glycine acts similar to 5a-DHP but just weaker, they both stimulate allopreg.

[Maxout777]

Glycine acts similar to 5a-DHP but just weaker, they both stimulate allopreg.
FWIW, I can tell a difference in sleep if I dose glycine with it still. Could be placebo effect, but I do seem to still sleep deeper.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

FWIW, I can tell a difference in sleep if I dose glycine with it still. Could be placebo effect, but I do seem to still sleep deeper.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Oh for sure, glycine still can help tremendously with sleep, no placebo. It was my go to supp for sleep and relaxation prior to 5a-DHP.

I haven't had a need to use glycine again after preg, mag chloride and 5a-DHP lol, I'm already relaxed enough.

[Cdsnuts]

FWIW, I can tell a difference in sleep if I dose glycine with it still. Could be placebo effect, but I do seem to still sleep deeper.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Not Placebo... They both increase Allo in slightly different ways...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Not Placebo... They both increase Allo in slightly different ways...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Roger....tracking now.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

Today is an off day, meaning no lifting. I just dropped 5mg to see if I notice anything at all, different or otherwise.

[Maxout777]

Dosed 5mg today preworkout.....worked pretty well as usual. Think this is gonna be my new dosage.

[DrivenToRecover]

Dosed 5mg today preworkout.....worked pretty well as usual. Think this is gonna be my new dosage.

Topical or oral?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

I'm thinking if you're going to dose this topically you would have to use more than if you dosed it orally

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Topical or oral?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Orally. In general, topically never works well for me for any supplement. I guess I could try it topically tomorrow and report back.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

I'm thinking if you're going to dose this topically you would have to use more than if you dosed it orally

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
I would agree. At 5mg the bottle will last 45-50ish days so that's one reason why I'm trying to get that dose to work. Very cost and benefit effective then.

[Atticas]

So took 10 mg today at around 4pm.

Didn't really feel much different off of that dosage at work.

Genitals still hanging pretty much the same and no major improvement in skin that I can see.

I guess the only real change left to see is how I sleep tonight.

I really want this to work you guys...

Any suggestions?

[Maxout777]

So took 10 mg today at around 4pm.

Didn't really feel much different off of that dosage at work.

Genitals still hanging pretty much the same and no major improvement in skin that I can see.

I guess the only real change left to see is how I sleep tonight.

I really want this to work you guys...

Any suggestions?
It's not a magic bullet my man, and it's not gonna happen over night. Use it daily at a dose similar to that and combine it with the protocol we all know and love and stick to it consistently and things will change over TIME. You're putting far too much hope in instant changes. Not trying to be a dick here, just wanna see you succeed bud.

[Atticas]

It's not a magic bullet my man, and it's not gonna happen over night. Use it daily at a dose similar to that and combine it with the protocol we all know and love and stick to it consistently and things will change over TIME. You're putting far too much hope in instant changes. Not trying to be a dick here, just wanna see you succeed bud.

Are you guys still taking the herbs while taking this stuff?

[Maxout777]

Are you guys still taking the herbs while taking this stuff?
I am. I've never stopped the lifestyle except I swap herbs for R Andro when running it, that's the only time it changes.

[DrivenToRecover]

I'm just now about to start the herb cycle & I'm so psyched. I was reading through the old herb threads & was excited by the endorsements

I feel like the 5a-dhp has done a lot to bring back my personality & i hope the herbs push that further


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

So took 10 mg today at around 4pm.

Didn't really feel much different off of that dosage at work.

Genitals still hanging pretty much the same and no major improvement in skin that I can see.

I guess the only real change left to see is how I sleep tonight.

I really want this to work you guys...

Any suggestions?
You're definitely not going to notice skin changes and genital changes within a day or two

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Atticas]

You're definitely not going to notice skin changes and genital changes within a day or two

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

You're right.

I was being impatient I guess because a bunch of you guys were seeing immediate results from this stuff and I haven't yet (other than the increase in energy)

Last night though, I will say, I took 6mg of Glycine like Maxouttt777 suggested and it actually put me down!

I woke up like 2-3 times in the night, and usually when I wake up nowadays, I can't go back to sleep... but not on Glycine and 5a-DHP :D So that was exciting lol

Thinking about upping the dosage back to 20mg today for leg workout, than taking the Glycine again tonight.

Will keep everyone updated.

[TubZy]

You're definitely not going to notice skin changes and genital changes within a day or two

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

x2. Skin issues are mostly from the pregnenolone and DHEA pathway...not allopreg. For example, DHEA and preg both lower cortisol....high cortisol = shitty skin

Also if you look up pregnenolone it is included in many topical skin creams for an anti aging type effect.

[DrivenToRecover]

5mg DHP today and my herbs came!!! Dosed pine pollen tincture, tongkat and polyrachis.

I feel fucking WIRED. Like i took a ton of adderall lol

Do they all feel like this?

I guess I underestimated the stimulation and energy part & thought it was mainly just sex drive that benefitted...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

5mg DHP today and my herbs came!!! Dosed pine pollen tincture, tongkat and polyrachis.

I feel fucking WIRED. Like i took a ton of adderall lol

Do they all feel like this?

I guess I underestimated the stimulation and energy part & thought it was mainly just sex drive that benefitted...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't attribute that to just the 5a DHP but more so it was the combination that you used. Ant by itself is going to cause you to be stimulated so between the low dose of 5a combined with the Ant, you're flying. Also some people get stimulated by the PP tincture.

Can I ask why you decided to start off with three herbs in one shot as opposed to feeling each one out on their own? That would have been the best way forward.

Once you know how each one is going to effect you, then you can start stacking them to get the results you want. I think you may have jumped the gun a little bit my man.....lol

[DrivenToRecover]

I wouldn't attribute that to just the 5a DHP but more so it was the combination that you used. Ant by itself is going to cause you to be stimulated so between the low dose of 5a combined with the Ant, you're flying. Also some people get stimulated by the PP tincture.

Can I ask why you decided to start off with three herbs in one shot as opposed to feeling each one out on their own? That would have been the best way forward.


Once you know how each one is going to effect you, then you can start stacking them to get the results you want. I think you may have jumped the gun a little bit my man.....lol

Flying was definitely the word to describe it. As someone thats taken a lot of stimulants I was impressed.
This is getting a bit off topic for this thread, but I guess some of the herbs have strong nootropic properties? (knew the rhodiola did)

Maybe I did jump the gun lol I won't lie.. I was giddy like a school girl when I saw my package was here, but the ones I did dose weren't random.

Reading about how good the ant is for your liver made me want to try a little of it first. The tongkat was the only one I took a full serving of, and the pine pollen is one of 4 along with royal jelly, maca, and suma root that you said you actually cycle monthly?

[Cdsnuts]

Flying was definitely the word to describe it. As someone thats taken a lot of stimulants I was impressed.
This is getting a bit off topic for this thread, but I guess some of the herbs have strong nootropic properties? (knew the rhodiola did)

Maybe I did jump the gun lol I won't lie.. I was giddy like a school girl when I saw my package was here, but the ones I did dose weren't random.

Reading about how good the ant is for your liver made me want to try a little of it first. The tongkat was the only one I took a full serving of, and the pine pollen is one of 4 along with royal jelly, maca, and suma root that you said you actually cycle monthly?


Because pine pollen is actually considered a food, you can use it daily. Maca is in this same category. All of the others should be cycled to get the best effect from them.

Ant and most of the other adaptogens are very useful for prework out because they have stimulatory qualities. I'm just surprised that for someone who has such a sensitive system you dosed as many as you did for your first try. It just seemed counter intuitive given your delicate system, not that there is anything wrong with stacking them like you did. I just thought you were going to tread more carefully is all.

And yes, we are kind of veering off topic here. Feel free to start another thread regarding herb dosing. I'm sure others will find it helpful/useful.

[DrivenToRecover]

Because pine pollen is actually considered a food, you can use it daily. Maca is in this same category. All of the others should be cycled to get the best effect from them.

Ant and most of the other adaptogens are very useful for prework out because they have stimulatory qualities. I'm just surprised that for someone who has such a sensitive system you dosed as many as you did for your first try. It just seemed counter intuitive given your delicate system, not that there is anything wrong with stacking them like you did. I just thought you were going to tread more carefully is all.

And yes, we are kind of veering off topic here. Feel free to start another thread regarding herb dosing. I'm sure others will find it helpful/useful.

Food vs herb...where do you draw the line? Lol

Because its a food you don't build up a tolerance in the same way?

[Atticas]

Sleep was better last night.

Took 20 mg again before legs yesterday... didn't feel the same energy as the first day, kinda just felt regular to be honest.

Took the glycine again before bed though and passed outtttttttt. I have really detailed, cool dreams on that stuff, I gotta say.

Anyways, still hoping this stuff gives me great results. Will finish off the rest of the bottle and possibly buy one more.

[Maxout777]

Sleep was better last night.

Took 20 mg again before legs yesterday... didn't feel the same energy as the first day, kinda just felt regular to be honest.

Took the glycine again before bed though and passed outtttttttt. I have really detailed, cool dreams on that stuff, I gotta say.

Anyways, still hoping this stuff gives me great results. Will finish off the rest of the bottle and possibly buy one more.

I'd lower your dosage down to 5mg and see how that helps you. Work your way back up if you feel you need to. Glad the glycine is working well for you.

[DrivenToRecover]

Hello All. New here. My story in short is took fin for 15 years and stopped taking it 2 years ago. I started to get most of my symptoms (fatigue, tinnitus, low libido, anxiety, dry skin, blurred vision and some more) the last year on it. I was also taking 900 mg of caffeine from pre-workout. I stopped caffeine so far for 4 years now. To sum it up I went to my holistic doctor and I did a saliva test for adrenals i February and it was pretty much perfect. Where before on fin my cortisol was double over the range. So we checked my Thyroid and Free T3, Free T4, TSH or all in range but Reverse T3 was double over the range a year ago. Free T3/ Reverse T3 ratio was 3 where you want it over 20. So I am taking compound T3 5mcg and went up in 5mcg increments per week to 60mcg then went back down to 5mcg where I still take now. This was done for about 1 year now. My temps average from the 3 measurements per day is 97.9 - 98.2. I still have hypo like symptoms. Now I found this forum and see the success with the herbs and lifestyle changes that others are doing and want to do this also. I placed an order for 5 of the herbs now and will order more in two weeks. My question is can I take the herbs and still take my T3 med or I was thinking is to stop the T3 and do the herb cycle. I already workout and diet is it check (chicken, sweet potatoes, veg, fruits, protein powder). I'm 43 6 foot 215 pounds. I did some bodybuilding competition shows in my younger years. I will do at least a 3 week juice feast. I know I'm rambling on but want to kick this crap in the butt now and excited to start.

Welcome! Feel free to start your own thread.

To answer your question though, I wouldn't stop taking thyroid meds just because you start the herb cycle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Atticas]

I'd lower your dosage down to 5mg and see how that helps you. Work your way back up if you feel you need to. Glad the glycine is working well for you.

Did today man!

Didn't really feel any different during the day, HOWEVER, I think I may have yawned less than I normally do today...

ANDDDDDDDD... I've been noticing that I've been getting this sharp, quick kind of pain, well... idk... it's such a light pain that it's almost hard to describe... let's just say I've felt like I could feel some kind of quick jolt going on in my balls at random times of the day. So anyways, I had a look at the goods just a few minutes ago AND LET ME TELL YA SOMETHIN MATES, MY JANK WAS HANGIN PRETTY LOWWWWWWWWWW!! LOW & GIRTHY I SAY!

SO, this could be progress. Iunno. Facial skin quality still shit, but hey, hopefully more good things to come soon! Only 4 days in here!

[Cdsnuts]

Hello All. New here. My story in short is took fin for 15 years and stopped taking it 2 years ago. I started to get most of my symptoms (fatigue, tinnitus, low libido, anxiety, dry skin, blurred vision and some more) the last year on it. I was also taking 900 mg of caffeine from pre-workout. I stopped caffeine so far for 4 years now. To sum it up I went to my holistic doctor and I did a saliva test for adrenals i February and it was pretty much perfect. Where before on fin my cortisol was double over the range. So we checked my Thyroid and Free T3, Free T4, TSH or all in range but Reverse T3 was double over the range a year ago. Free T3/ Reverse T3 ratio was 3 where you want it over 20. So I am taking compound T3 5mcg and went up in 5mcg increments per week to 60mcg then went back down to 5mcg where I still take now. This was done for about 1 year now. My temps average from the 3 measurements per day is 97.9 - 98.2. I still have hypo like symptoms. Now I found this forum and see the success with the herbs and lifestyle changes that others are doing and want to do this also. I placed an order for 5 of the herbs now and will order more in two weeks. My question is can I take the herbs and still take my T3 med or I was thinking is to stop the T3 and do the herb cycle. I already workout and diet is it check (chicken, sweet potatoes, veg, fruits, protein powder). I'm 43 6 foot 215 pounds. I did some bodybuilding competition shows in my younger years. I will do at least a 3 week juice feast. I know I'm rambling on but want to kick this crap in the butt now and excited to start.

Please keep this thead on topic.

Start a new thread in the Propecia section.

And Welcome.

I've moved this post to the appropriate space....

[Cdsnuts]

Anything new to report on this?

[Maxout777]

Anything new to report on this?
Business as usual at 5mg a day. I definitely think it adds some mental sharpness, good feeling, and relaxation effects.

[Cdsnuts]

Business as usual at 5mg a day. I definitely think it adds some mental sharpness, good feeling, and relaxation effects.

I've toned my dose down as well....around 6 or 7mgs. I think 15mg was just a bit too high....

[Maxout777]

I've toned my dose down as well....around 6 or 7mgs. I think 15mg was just a bit too high....

No doubt. I put a maximum on 7mg lol.

[Cdsnuts]

No doubt. I put a maximum on 7mg lol.

I won't go higher then 7.3659 mg

[Maxout777]

I won't go higher then 7.3659 mg
That's a hell of a dropper you've got there chief!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Cdsnuts]

That's a hell of a dropper you've got there chief!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
You know it sport

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Glycine/Gelatin does a shit ton more than boost allopreg

Gelatin, stress, longevity (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml)

[DrivenToRecover]

Glycine/Gelatin does a shit ton more than boost allopreg

Gelatin, stress, longevity (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml)
Nice. I'm gonna read through that tm.

Amazon.com : Great Lakes Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate Beef, Kosher, 16 oz. : Cooking And Baking Gelatin Mixes : Grocery Gourmet Food (https://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Gelatin-Collagen-Hydrolysate/dp/B005KG7EDU/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1482209218&sr=8-1&keywords=great+lakes+gelatin)

This is the stuff you dose right? I love it...maybe I'm weird, but the taste is honestly so good I will usually scoop the powder straight in my mouth as a snack lol

[TubZy]

Nice. I'm gonna read through that tm.

Amazon.com : Great Lakes Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate Beef, Kosher, 16 oz. : Cooking And Baking Gelatin Mixes : Grocery Gourmet Food (https://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Gelatin-Collagen-Hydrolysate/dp/B005KG7EDU/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1482209218&sr=8-1&keywords=great+lakes+gelatin)

This is the stuff you dose right? I love it...maybe I'm weird, but the taste is honestly so good I will usually scoop the powder straight in my mouth as a snack lol

Yep lol. Nope you aren't- I love the texture/taste too haha. If you take enough for a while you'll notice smoother skin. I usually do a tablespoon or two with each meal along with my meats like eggs, beef and chicken to get a nice balance.

I used to take straight glycine, but gelatin/collagen has much more benefits plus the glycine of course.
.
Do you feel slightly relaxed after taking it? I put a tablespoon or so in hot water and drink it with meals. Hot water makes it hit quicker (learned it from CDnuts haha). Anything more than 2 tablespoons with a meal I could fall asleep and pass out haha - GABA agonism is real.

[Cdsnuts]

Yep lol. Nope you aren't- I love the texture/taste too haha. If you take enough for a while you'll notice smoother skin. I usually do a tablespoon or two with each meal along with my meats like eggs, beef and chicken to get a nice balance.

I used to take straight glycine, but gelatin/collagen has much more benefits plus the glycine of course.

Do you feel slightly relaxed after taking it? I put a tablespoon or so in hot water and drink it with meals.

So you take this instead of the glycine now, not in addition too?

[TubZy]

So you take this instead of the glycine now, not in addition too?

I have always taken glycine since I mentioned it that other thread we talked about it in a while ago. I switched to gelatin/collagen from glycine a while ago b/c it's better since it contains a high amount of glycine plus other aminos like lysine, proline etc. all good for gut health and skin, joints. I just take it with meals to help balance the aminos from muscle meats along with other benefits (mentioned in the link I posted above why is why I switched form glycine to collagen/gelatin).

I still notice the same effect as I did from just taking isolated glycine.

[Cdsnuts]

Glycine/Gelatin does a shit ton more than boost allopreg

Gelatin, stress, longevity (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml)

I found it interesting that glycine opposes estrogen. I had no knowledge of this interaction until reading this article. Definitely a great weapon to add to the arsenal. Anytime you can take something that is considered a food AND supplement, imo this is one of the best ways to go about including something like this into your regimen.

[Cdsnuts]

I have always taken glycine since I mentioned it that other thread we talked about it in a while ago. I switched to gelatin/collagen from glycine a while ago b/c it's better since it contains a high amount of glycine plus other aminos like lysine, proline etc. all good for gut health and skin, joints. I just take it with meals to help balance the aminos from muscle meats along with other benefits (mentioned in the link I posted above why is why I switched form glycine to collagen/gelatin).

I still notice the same effect as I did from just taking isolated glycine.

Always best to take something that has numerous actions in the system as opposed to just one. Killing two birds with one stone so to speak.....

[TubZy]

I found it interesting that glycine opposes estrogen. I had no knowledge of this interaction until reading this article. Definitely a great weapon to add to the arsenal. Anytime you can take something that is considered a food AND supplement, imo this is one of the best ways to go about including something like this into your regimen.

Exactly. Just like pine pollen as a natural food or just taking an isolated compound from pine pollen without the cofactors. Always better to take the whole food version (glycine vs gelatin). Not saying isolated compounds are always bad though. You want to let your body naturally regulate the enzyme process which is always better.

[Cdsnuts]

Exactly. Just like pine pollen as a natural food or just taking an isolated compound from pine pollen without the cofactors. Always better to take the whole food version (glycine vs gelatin). Not saying isolated compounds are always bad though. You want to let your body naturally regulate the enzyme process which is always better.

100%

That being said, some people have issues where these systems aren't regulating correctly (PFS). In these conditions isolated compounds can be great. But as the body heals, the isolated compounds should give way to include a more holistic approach to supplementation. For the most part getting the whole thing in is what we all should shoot for. This is a great example of why application of the correct diet can be so powerful.

[Atticas]

Anything new to report on this?

Took 5mg this morning.

No real difference today, although I am noticing there seems to be less brain fog and a maybe a little less yawning.

Part of the trick right now is to NOT think about yawning, cuz even typing that and thinking of it made me yawn lmao

But seriously, at its worst, I used to yawn for what felt like 10 times per HOUR for HOURSSSSS at work... so it's definitely good if it's becoming just a few per day now.

Glycine at night is still kicking my ass to sleep, which is awesome. Hopefully with the restored sleep, the wim hof method, the cold showers, the 5a-DHP, the drinking of more water and no fap... hopefully I'll be putting myself in a much better category of recovery now.

[rmoore]

I went to the health food store to get more Calm and got a brochure for this: Vital Proteins Pasture-Raised, Grass-Fed Collagen Peptides. Wonder if this would be the same thing as the Great lakes brand.

[TubZy]

I went to the health food store to get more Calm and got a brochure for this: Vital Proteins Pasture-Raised, Grass-Fed Collagen Peptides. Wonder if this would be the same thing as the Great lakes brand.

Yeah, i heard of that brand, it should work pretty well otherwise great lakes has been around and used by many many ppl

[TubZy]

100%

That being said, some people have issues where these systems aren't regulating correctly (PFS). In these conditions isolated compounds can be great. But as the body heals, the isolated compounds should give way to include a more holistic approach to supplementation. For the most part getting the whole thing in is what we all should shoot for. This is a great example of why application of the correct diet can be so powerful.

Yup, I agree. The good thing about the endogenous steroids in physiological doses is that administering them soley don't really have any negative impacts on the HPTA and actually some have positive effects like 5a-DHP for example which is why I mentioned isolated compounds aren't always bad.

You are absolutely right, diet should be number 1.

[DrivenToRecover]

Yep lol. Nope you aren't- I love the texture/taste too haha. If you take enough for a while you'll notice smoother skin. I usually do a tablespoon or two with each meal along with my meats like eggs, beef and chicken to get a nice balance.

I used to take straight glycine, but gelatin/collagen has much more benefits plus the glycine of course.
.
Do you feel slightly relaxed after taking it? I put a tablespoon or so in hot water and drink it with meals. Hot water makes it hit quicker (learned it from CDnuts haha). Anything more than 2 tablespoons with a meal I could fall asleep and pass out haha - GABA agonism is real.

I don't feel noticeably more relaxed after I take it, but after reading that article I think I might mega dose it tonight & report back.
I'm gonna get into the routine of a tbsp morning and a tbsp at night.

Reading that is another example of something that I've found really interesting, and that is that the body is good at using ingredients from parts of other animals to help those same parts of you...that is: gelatin is good for your connective tissue, eating heart is good for your heart, eating liver is good for your liver, ect.

I wish I had learned this type of shit in school years ago before I had any sort of health problems lol Instead we learned to eat our "Heart Healthy" whole grains smh..

One thing I keep seeing on the ray peat stuff tubz is that serotonin is bad? I thought you wanted serotonin levels about as high as naturally possible?

[TubZy]

I don't feel noticeably more relaxed after I take it, but after reading that article I think I might mega dose it tonight & report back.
I'm gonna get into the routine of a tbsp morning and a tbsp at night.

Reading that is another example of something that I've found really interesting, and that is that the body is good at using ingredients from parts of other animals to help those same parts of you...that is: gelatin is good for your connective tissue, eating heart is good for your heart, eating liver is good for your liver, ect.

I wish I had learned this type of shit in school years ago before I had any sort of health problems lol Instead we learned to eat our "Heart Healthy" whole grains smh..

One thing I keep seeing on the ray peat stuff tubz is that serotonin is bad? I thought you wanted serotonin levels about as high as naturally possible?

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy. (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin-depression-aggression.shtml)

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.

Increased serotonin interferes with the consolidation of learning. Hypothermia has a similar effect. Since estrogen increases serotonergia, and decreases body temperature, these effects help to explain the long-observed interference of estrogen with learning.

[Cdsnuts]

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy. (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin-depression-aggression.shtml)

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.
I couldn't have said this better myself. Great response. 100% spot on

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DrivenToRecover]

Try 2 tablespoons tonight. I don't really notice the relaxing effect from 1 tablespoon that much that is why I can handle it during the day.

Yep, screw grains man I feel so much better cutting them out. They are inflammatory, have gluten, suppress thyroid/metabolism, inhibit zinc absorption, horrible for the gut/hard to digest etc. Fruit, white rice and potatoes are my carb sources.

Yes, Peat is against serotonin, he doesn't say to completely eliminate it but keep it as low as possible in the normal range. The reason is that estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, histamine and serotonin are all interconnected and are all stress related to the organism. Serotonin slows metabolism and is considered elevated in only times of stress, along with increasing prolactin, estrogen and cortisol. Anything that causes "stress" towards the organism is going to put resources away from the right functions of the body. Like how cortisol causes weight gain, depressed sexual function, crappy skin etc. I always thought serotonin was the "good" guy too.

Take for example, SSRI's. So many people are screwed up from SSRI's b/c they raise serotonin. All the sides of SSRI's are very similar to PFS...weight gain, slowed metabolism, prolactin rise, ED, low libido etc.

There is new evidence now that the "anti-depressant" effect of SSRI's is actually from the rise in allopregnenolone now- not from the serotonin increase.

All in all, the main neurotransmitters you want elevated is GABA and dopamine. You probably know but both of those have anti- stress, pro-metabolic, pro testosterone, pro thyroid functions, neuroprotective functions. If you want to read more in depth about serotonin, check it out Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy. (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin-depression-aggression.shtml)

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin; anti-serotonin drugs can alleviate the symptoms, and 5-hydroxytryptophan can worsen the symptoms (Chase, et al., 1976). Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin. In autism, repetitive motions are a common symptom, and serotonin is high in the blood serum and platelets of autistic children and their relatives. Irritable bowel syndrome, another kind of “movement disorder,” can be treated effectively with anti-serotonin agents. This syndrome is very common in women, with premenstrual exacerbations, when estrogen is highest. One of the side effects of oral contraceptives is chorea, uncontrollable dancing movements. Some research has found increased serotonin in people with Huntington’s chorea (Kish, et al., 1987), and positive results with bromocriptine have been reported (Agnoli, et al., 1977).

The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).

The “serotonin reuptake inhibitors” “are presumed” to have the same effect on the brain that they have on blood platelets. They inhibit the ability of platelets to retain and concentrate serotonin, allowing it to stay in the plasma. This uptake-inhibited condition is a model of the platelet behavior seen in multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease.

Serotonin and its derivative, melatonin, are both involved in the biology of torpor and hibernation. Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.

Increased serotonin interferes with the consolidation of learning. Hypothermia has a similar effect. Since estrogen increases serotonergia, and decreases body temperature, these effects help to explain the long-observed interference of estrogen with learning.


I took 3 tablespoons and I feel pretty damn sleepy.

It really makes sense to me now why I had the health problems I had even as a kid. I lived off of Nutri grain bars, PB&J's, and Goldfish lol

SSRI's...Don't even get me started. I've been trying to get a family member off of them for a while now, and It frustrates me to see them still take them knowing what I know. I'm guessing the 5a-dhp would be a great alternative for a female as well?

Dopamine is another thing I'm always looking to learn more on as well. I know from taking adderall 15 years straight my natural dopamine is pretty down-regulated. No fap, no drugs, and exercise are the things that seem to help with that the most. I do sometimes wonder about the long term effects of the adderall though...its weird for me to think that from age 7-22 just about every experience that I had was with a constant hit of amphetamines in my system. Thank God neuroplasticity is a thing lol

Tubz you really are a wealth of internet knowledge with all your research and computer savy haha. I really am thankful for a few of the things you've gotten me into...Got any resources bookmarked for helping with dopamine?..peat or otherwise?

[Cdsnuts]

I took 3 tablespoons and I feel pretty damn sleepy.

It really makes sense to me now why I had the health problems I had even as a kid. I lived off of Nutri grain bars, PB&J's, and Goldfish lol

SSRI's...Don't even get me started. I've been trying to get a family member off of them for a while now, and It frustrates me to see them still take them knowing what I know. I'm guessing the 5a-dhp would be a great alternative for a female as well?

Dopamine is another thing I'm always looking to learn more on as well. I know from taking adderall 15 years straight my natural dopamine is pretty down-regulated. No fap, no drugs, and exercise are the things that seem to help with that the most. I do sometimes wonder about the long term effects of the adderall though...its weird for me to think that from age 7-22 just about every experience that I had was with a constant hit of amphetamines in my system. Thank God neuroplasticity is a thing lol

Tubz you really are a wealth of internet knowledge with all your research and computer savy haha. I really am thankful for a few of the things you've gotten me into...Got any resources bookmarked for helping with dopamine?..peat or otherwise?

This is great for increasing dopamine: Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/mucuna/cdsnuts/)

One of the things that hurts the most is the more you learn about health, the more you realize how bad the people in your life that you love are damaging themselves and no matter what you say or do to try and help them, it's most likely going to fall on deaf ears.

[DrivenToRecover]

This is great for increasing dopamine: Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/mucuna/cdsnuts/)

One of the things that hurts the most is the more you learn about health, the more you realize how bad the people in your life that you love are damaging themselves and no matter what you say or do to try and help them, it's most likely going to fall on deaf ears.

Yes. That was one of the herbs that I was most excited to take. I've tried l-tyrosine and 5-htp(which I guess is actually bad for you? bc of serotonin increase?) without noticing much. As soon as its back in stock I will get some.

Man. That hits really close to home for me. I've had a lot of those type of thoughts come to me in meditation. Another thought I've had while meditating is a possible explanation. Stick with me here haha tell me if you agree.

Health is a spectrum (like a 1-10) not a "yes you are healthy" or a "no you aren't." And usually the change on that 1-10 scale goes up and down so slowly that you get used to whatever you feel like. It becomes the new norm.
Because of that your negative actions are usually very far removed from the consequences when it comes to health.

Say I offer a person a piece of cake. Most people would eat the cake, even though they know that its unhealthy for them. Why? because the negative health implications of that single piece of cake are minuscule. Compare that to that minute of heaven where your system is flooded with dopamine from all of the sugar and other ingredients that scientists have concocted. The average person gives in and eats it.

But for me, I've had an experience where my health went from a 7 to a 1 in a week's time. It wasn't gradual at all. I wouldn't wish that week I had on anybody, but because of that experience, I have an entirely new appreciation for the blessing that health is...I'm not eating the damn cake ever again. lol

One of the biggest motivating factors for me is that I know all of the things that went down to a 1 (neurosteroids, hormones, libido, ect) were only at a 7 before. I can't wait till the day I pass 7 and eventually get to a 10.

[Cdsnuts]

Yup... the Spectrum, Shades of Grey, different levels, etc. And that's exactly how people get into trouble in losing their health over a period of months and years. Yet when they get a diagnosis of say cancer or heart disease, they act as if it just happened to them, when in reality it has been something that's been building over the course of many years dictated by their consistent poor lifestyle choices.

On the other side of the coin, Health builds the same way... Slowly but surely over the course of many weeks months and years. This is what I'm CONSTANTLY trying to instill in people who are trying to get better. Because of the mindset I just spoke of, they think they got sick in an instant so they think they're going to get better in an instant as well, and that's just not how it works.

That's why I always say TIME + CONSISTENCY = RESULTS.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

This is great for increasing dopamine: Mucuna Organic Extract - L-DOPA - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/mucuna/cdsnuts/)

One of the things that hurts the most is the more you learn about health, the more you realize how bad the people in your life that you love are damaging themselves and no matter what you say or do to try and help them, it's most likely going to fall on deaf ears.

x2. Also shilajit lowers serotonin/prolactin too which would indirectly raise dopamine. @Cd has helped a lot too, he understand a lot of the stuff I'm coming from.

@driven

There is a bunch of things you can do but some easy ones to start is taurine and theanine. BCAA's and tyrosine seem to also help with dopamine and lower serotonin. Anything that lowers serotonin will indirectly increase dopamine (dopamine inhibits serotonin).

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/taurine-increase-dopamine-synthesis-in-the-brain.2821/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/theanine-both-reduces-serotonin-and-increases-dopamine.3724/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/depleting-serotonin-with-bcaa.2449/


Diet should be first though. So eliminate grains/gluten. Focus on this stuff.

Proteins: chicken, beef, eggs, shrimp/scallops, milk, ice cream
Carbs: fruits/fruit juice, white rice, potatoes
Fats: only saturated fats- so coconut oil (stimulates thyroid), grass fed butter..I only really use refined coconut oil for everything (cooking and frying etc.)

Completely eliminate as many polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) as you can majority of them will be in vegetable oils so cut them all out even olive oil.

Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml)

Other supplements you could take a look into is: pregnenolone, DHEA, niacinamide, aspirin, caffeine/coffee, magnesium (chloride form), all fat soluble vitamins (each of them is anti estrogenic especially K2-MK4)

Also, I forgot to mention this to you guys before, but Haidut did some guest podcasts before on PFS and steroids etc. If you got some time check it out. i'm not the biggest fan of the danny roddy guy (the host) though.

Haidut on PFS, 5ARI's, DHT

Hair Loss and Prostate Cancer [Generative Energy #16] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDTo3fsKCUM&t=4s)

Haidut on preg/dhea etc.

The Youth Steroids: Pregnenolone, Progesterone DHEA [Generative Energy #8] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXkxViFxk9A)

Haidut on why PUFA is bad

Polyunsaturated Fats in The Real Organism [Generative Energy #7] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngdmdtrwyas)

[TubZy]

Oh yeah and forgot to answer, yes girls can take 5a-DHP just a way lower dose (a few drops or so and that is it).

[TubZy]

I'm the same, I use coconut oil for cooking everything.

Is there a reason you use refined? I've always defaulted to buying unrefined.

two reasons:


Refined coconut oil has no taste perfect for cooking, frying, baking etc.
Refining process removes any potential allergens from bad coconuts, the saturated fat/MCT is really all you want from it.



Just make sure to get one with no PUFA. A lot of brands will take the easy way out and cut it with palm oil which you don't want.

I use organic refined spectrum.

[DrivenToRecover]

x2. Also shilajit lowers serotonin/prolactin too which would indirectly raise dopamine. @Cd has helped a lot too, he understand a lot of the stuff I'm coming from.

@driven

There is a bunch of things you can do but some easy ones to start is taurine and theanine. BCAA's and tyrosine seem to also help with dopamine and lower serotonin. Anything that lowers serotonin will indirectly increase dopamine (dopamine inhibits serotonin).

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/taurine-increase-dopamine-synthesis-in-the-brain.2821/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/theanine-both-reduces-serotonin-and-increases-dopamine.3724/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/depleting-serotonin-with-bcaa.2449/


Diet should be first though. So eliminate grains/gluten. Focus on this stuff.

Proteins: chicken, beef, eggs, shrimp/scallops, milk, ice cream
Carbs: fruits/fruit juice, white rice, potatoes
Fats: only saturated fats- so coconut oil (stimulates thyroid), grass fed butter..I only really use refined coconut oil for everything (cooking and frying etc.)

Completely eliminate as many polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) as you can majority of them will be in vegetable oils so cut them all out even olive oil.

Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml)

Other supplements you could take a look into is: pregnenolone, DHEA, niacinamide, aspirin, caffeine/coffee, magnesium (chloride form), all fat soluble vitamins (each of them is anti estrogenic especially K2-MK4)

Also, I forgot to mention this to you guys before, but Haidut did some guest podcasts before on PFS and steroids etc. If you got some time check it out. i'm not the biggest fan of the danny roddy guy (the host) though.

Haidut on PFS, 5ARI's, DHT

Hair Loss and Prostate Cancer [Generative Energy #16] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDTo3fsKCUM&t=4s)

Haidut on preg/dhea etc.

Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml)

Haidut on why PUFA is bad

Polyunsaturated Fats in The Real Organism [Generative Energy #7] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngdmdtrwyas)

Fuck man...don't tell me olive oil is bad too lol I live on the stuff. Sometimes even cook with it on low heat...
Is PUFA really that bad even in tiny amounts? Because you really can't avoid it entirely:

Infographic: Paleo Cooking Fats | Paleo Leap (http://paleoleap.com/infographic-paleo-cooking-fats/)

Olive oil is 11% PUFA
Coconut 2%
Lard 11%
Tallow 4%
Butter 4%
Chicken fat 20%
Duck fat 12%


I much prefer the unrefined Coconut oil as well. The taste is awesome. I'd eat the stuff all day if it didn't give you the runs like hell

[TubZy]

Fuck man...don't tell me olive oil is bad too lol I live on the stuff. Sometimes even cook with it on low heat...
Is PUFA really that bad even in tiny amounts? Because you really can't avoid it entirely:

Infographic: Paleo Cooking Fats | Paleo Leap (http://paleoleap.com/infographic-paleo-cooking-fats/)

Olive oil is 11% PUFA
Coconut 2%
Lard 11%
Tallow 4%
Butter 4%
Chicken fat 20%
Duck fat 12%


I much prefer the unrefined Coconut oil as well. The taste is awesome. I'd eat the stuff all day if it didn't give you the runs like hell

Refined coconut oil isn't mandatory it's just suggested but it's not that big of deal if you don't use refined. I use unrefined sometimes too.

Regarding Olive oil, peat mentions that if there was one oil in moderation you had to use it would be high quality olive oil mainly b/c of the vitamin E content in it which actually blocks some of the effects of PUFA/free fatty acids when it gets into your body just like niacinamide does. I used to cook with EVOO all the time, but I actually like refined coconut oil better for cooking now, all my meats, eggs, some veggies come out really moist. Coconut oil is also stable at high temps when olive oil oxidizes fairly quickly at lower temps and becomes rancid (which you don't want- just like how fish oil can become rancid from sitting on the shelf, also why manufacturers include added vit E to their fish oil to help prevent it oxidizing).

Vitamin K2 MK-4 will help detox PUFA from the liver too along with caffeine.

A lot of ppl target 2 grams of PUFA per day but that is pretty hard. I think I fall somewhere between the 2-6 gram range of PUFA a day though. The saturated fats from coconut oil will also offset some of the damage from PUFA since saturated fats are protective to the mitochondria. That is why cooking with coconut is very good especially with meats. What kind of coconut oil are you using that gives you the runs? I don't think I ever had that issue before and I probably use close to 6 tablespoons a day.

Peat's stuff is very complex at first, but once you read and realize actually what is going on it makes perfect sense and is actually pretty cool. At least that is how it was for me and I have been down all the roads, paleo, ketogenic, high carb, low carb etc.

It actually relates to being overall healthy plus the bodybuilding aspect (due to high metabolism, keeping estrogen, prolactin, serotonin low, with increases in DHT, T, DHEA = all benefits for athletes/bodybuilders) so two birds in one stone.

[TubZy]

I also realized I put the wrong link for the preg/dhea podcast link with Haidut on the above post, so I fixed it.

[DrivenToRecover]

Refined coconut oil isn't mandatory it's just suggested but it's not that big of deal if you don't use refined. I use unrefined sometimes too.

Regarding Olive oil, peat mentions that if there was one oil in moderation you had to use it would be high quality olive oil mainly b/c of the vitamin E content in it which actually blocks some of the effects of PUFA/free fatty acids when it gets into your body just like niacinamide does. I used to cook with EVOO all the time, but I actually like refined coconut oil better for cooking now, all my meats, eggs, some veggies come out really moist. Coconut oil is also stable at high temps when olive oil oxidizes fairly quickly at lower temps and becomes rancid (which you don't want- just like how fish oil can become rancid from sitting on the shelf, also why manufacturers include added vit E to their fish oil to help prevent it oxidizing).

Vitamin K2 MK-4 will help detox PUFA from the liver too along with caffeine.

A lot of ppl target 2 grams of PUFA per day but that is pretty hard. I think I fall somewhere between the 2-6 gram range of PUFA a day though. The saturated fats from coconut oil will also offset some of the damage from PUFA since saturated fats are protective to the mitochondria. That is why cooking with coconut is very good especially with meats. What kind of coconut oil are you using that gives you the runs? I don't think I ever had that issue before and I probably use close to 6 tablespoons a day.

Peat's stuff is very complex at first, but once you read and realize actually what is going on it makes perfect sense and is actually pretty cool. At least that is how it was for me and I have been down all the roads, paleo, ketogenic, high carb, low carb etc.

It actually relates to being overall healthy plus the bodybuilding aspect (due to high metabolism, keeping estrogen, prolactin, serotonin low = all benefits for athletes/bodybuilders) so two birds in one stone.

We really should start a diet thread. I eat such few things nowadays that I really have what I do eat down to a science at this point.

I feel like we all probably do & we're eating all the same stuff. From the best place to buy in terms of price vs quality, and specific ways of preparing things I'd love to hear the routine that everyone is on.

Coconut oil and the runs is something I've read about everywhere online...its been my personal experience as well across a few brands.

[Brazilianguy]

After taking 5a-DHP do we need any PCT? If so, what kind of pct do you guys intend to do, just herbs or herbs and Sustain Alpha?

When I was taking SERMs a long time ago I remembered that when I took too much, I would feel some low estrogen sides, like anxiety, peeing a lot, dick shrinkage etc. With Sustain Alpha I'm getting the same thing sometimes, like I'm over sensitive to estrogen blockers, I can't block too much because I may get worse and not get better, I mean, the famous estrogen rebound.

Tribulus and maca on the other hand gave me the best recoveries and very smooth ups and downs leading to better baseline, they seem more secure and the results are more stable.

So my question to you guys would be how you guys will do your pct and if you guys think things like Sustain Alpha (I completely discard serms) and others resveratrol products are necessary or not to recover and pct.

[t14]

just ordered a bottle, s there a consensus on dose & frequency yet?

[Maxout777]

After taking 5a-DHP do we need any PCT? If so, what kind of pct do you guys intend to do, just herbs or herbs and Sustain Alpha?

When I was taking SERMs a long time ago I remembered that when I took too much, I would feel some low estrogen sides, like anxiety, peeing a lot, dick shrinkage etc. With Sustain Alpha I'm getting the same thing sometimes, like I'm over sensitive to estrogen blockers, I can't block too much because I may get worse and not get better, I mean, the famous estrogen rebound.

Tribulus and maca on the other hand gave me the best recoveries and very smooth ups and downs leading to better baseline, they seem more secure and the results are more stable.

So my question to you guys would be how you guys will do your pct and if you guys think things like Sustain Alpha (I completely discard serms) and others resveratrol products are necessary or not to recover and pct.
It's not suppressive so you won't need a PCT. Relax brother, this is analysis paralysis to the T.

[Brazilianguy]

It's not suppressive so you won't need a PCT. Relax brother, this is analysis paralysis to the T.

Thank you brother, but it's not analysis paralysis because I'm taking action. I'm asking about the sustain alpha because I'm getting low e sides from it, when I get low e sides the e rebound give me a worse baseline after all, so I'm thinking if just taking herbs like tribulus, tongkat, maca is enough and if some of you get this too.

[Cdsnuts]

Thank you brother, but it's not analysis paralysis because I'm taking action. I'm asking about the sustain alpha because I'm getting low e sides from it, when I get low e sides the e rebound give me a worse baseline after all, so I'm thinking if just taking herbs like tribulus, tongkat, maca is enough and if some of you get this too.
Sustain Alpha does the same thing to my estrogen... Absolutely crushes it... Just try playing around with the dosage or dosing it once per day or once per every couple days

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

You don't even need sustain alpha really. 5a-DHP will take care of estrogen enough. Too high of dosage you could tank E so be careful and watch for low E sides

[theshogun]

My 5a-DHP came today, excited to try it. From what I've read here I will most likely take 5mg with 100mg caffeine pre-workout at first.

Btw Tubzy, I messaged you on solvepfs with a few questions.
I can't blame you for not going on that negative shithole of a website too much tbh. Maybe check it out when you have time, thanks.

[TubZy]

My 5a-DHP came today, excited to try it. From what I've read here I will most likely take 5mg with 100mg caffeine pre-workout at first.

Btw Tubzy, I messaged you on solvepfs with a few questions.
I can't blame you for not going on that negative shithole of a website too much tbh. Maybe check it out when you have time, thanks.

You sent me PM? what is your name on there? You can just ask me/us on here if you want if it's related to this thread and what we are talking about

[theshogun]

JZA ;)

Alright, thanks. I'm gonna try and stay away from that site from now on.

Edit: I just dosed 5mg I think. How do you guys dose? Do you drop it directly into the mouth or onto a spoon? I just squeezed the bottle 5 times into my mouth but I couldn't really tell how much came out

[Maxout777]

JZA ;)

Alright, thanks. I'm gonna try and stay away from that site from now on.

Edit: I just dosed 5mg I think. How do you guys dose? Do you drop it directly into the mouth or onto a spoon? I just squeezed the bottle 5 times into my mouth but I couldn't really tell how much came out
I usually use the dropper to place it in my mouth in the bathroom and use the mirror to count the drops. Simplest way I've figured out how to do it and know for sure.

[Cdsnuts]

I usually use the dropper to place it in my mouth in the bathroom and use the mirror to count the drops. Simplest way I've figured out how to do it and know for sure.
Likewise

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

JZA ;)

Alright, thanks. I'm gonna try and stay away from that site from now on.

Edit: I just dosed 5mg I think. How do you guys dose? Do you drop it directly into the mouth or onto a spoon? I just squeezed the bottle 5 times into my mouth but I couldn't really tell how much came out

Yeah or just add the drops to water/juice and consume.

[theshogun]

Ok, thanks guys.
What I noticed yesterday: After dosing on the way to the gym(I took it with tribulus instead of caffeine because it was 2pm already) I felt a wave of calm, relaxed energy hit me. I felt positive and focused. I then had a decent workout(I did legs) and went back home. At home I felt overcome by sleepiness for a few minutes but after that passed I felt really calm and relaxed like I usually do after hitting the gym. I then ate and meditated. During meditation I was again very sleepy and almost drifted off to sleep. The rest of the day I felt calm and relaxed but nothing groundbreaking.
At night I fell asleep quickly but unfortunately woke up at 3am(with a strong nocturnal erection). I struggled to get back to sleep immediately and meditated again. I slept very lightly the rest of the night but woke up fairly well rested this morning nonetheless.

[Atticas]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Just as an update, hit 300 tonight on squat for the first time IN MY LIFE today without wraps... so my energy is definitely still doing fine, my junk has been hanging low which is also good, ANDDDD as an extra bonus, today I think I actually saw some oil on my facial skin! Not huge progress, but possible progress nonetheless!

Been speaking with someone here on the forums and I think I am gonna go ahead and throw pregnenolone, DHEA, and hyaluronic acid into the picture to try and speed things up even further...

Thoughts/Opinions?

ALSO, how are all the rest of you doing?!!

[Cdsnuts]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Just as an update, hit 300 tonight on squat for the first time IN MY LIFE today without wraps... so my energy is definitely still doing fine, my junk has been hanging low which is also good, ANDDDD as an extra bonus, today I think I actually saw some oil on my facial skin! Not huge progress, but possible progress nonetheless!

Been speaking with someone here on the forums and I think I am gonna go ahead and throw pregnenolone, DHEA, and hyaluronic acid into the picture to try and speed things up even further...

Thoughts/Opinions?

ALSO, how are all the rest of you doing?!!

Well that was a complete 180.....lol.

[Atticas]

Anyone else continuing to see results with this 5a-DHP worth mentioning?

[Atticas]

GUYS, this stuff might actually be working for me!!! It does its thing so slow... I can't tell if I'm just imagining things or it's working, but here's what I'll report so far:

> One day I took this stuff and had HUGE energy and determination. Destroyed the gym that day
> For some reason, I'm eating a ton but it almost seems like it's HARDER for me to gain weight now... I've been seeing my weight go down and down on the scale.
> One day, I felt like my memory was definitely better
> Taking this stuff in the morning, then taking Glycine at night.... I CRASH harddddddddddddddddd. Sleep is sooooo good
> As of yesterday, I felt like I may have more feeling in my dick. This wasn't even a symptom I was really worried about, but for some reason I felt like I could feel more down there.
> Today, I woke up feeling like the dark circles under my eyes look better!! I kept staring in the mirror thinking it must be my imagination or just me putting extra hope in this stuff.... but they may actually be!!

Gonna continue taking this stuff and posting results. Currently trying to find a way to purchase any of these: hyaluronic acid, DHEA, and pregnenolone. Don't get me wrong, I know where to find the stuff, but I have a corn allergy and corn is in TONS of supplements in the form of magnesium stearate, "vegetable stearate", or cellulose.

[Brazilianguy]

GUYS, this stuff might actually be working for me!!! It does its thing so slow... I can't tell if I'm just imagining things or it's working, but here's what I'll report so far:

> One day I took this stuff and had HUGE energy and determination. Destroyed the gym that day
> For some reason, I'm eating a ton but it almost seems like it's HARDER for me to gain weight now... I've been seeing my weight go down and down on the scale.
> One day, I felt like my memory was definitely better
> Taking this stuff in the morning, then taking Glycine at night.... I CRASH harddddddddddddddddd. Sleep is sooooo good
> As of yesterday, I felt like I may have more feeling in my dick. This wasn't even a symptom I was really worried about, but for some reason I felt like I could feel more down there.
> Today, I woke up feeling like the dark circles under my eyes look better!! I kept staring in the mirror thinking it must be my imagination or just me putting extra hope in this stuff.... but they may actually be!!


Gonna continue taking this stuff and posting results. Currently trying to find a way to purchase any of these: hyaluronic acid, DHEA, and pregnenolone. Don't get me wrong, I know where to find the stuff, but I have a corn allergy and corn is in TONS of supplements in the form of magnesium stearate, "vegetable stearate", or cellulose.



That's great man, I wouldn't take the DHEA if I were you, it made me crash. It will become estrogen easily. I was taking only 25mg.

Today probably will be the last day I'll be taking Sustain Alpha, I dont know, sometimes I think these È blockers don't help much with recovery comparing to herbs like tribulus. I will only use it when I take the herbs and they don't work, but I'm still thinking about stopping it for good. Tribulus alone made me reach 75% recovered pretty fast, it may act in a different way because tribulus made me feel much more androgenic than sustain alpha and the ups were huge the downs weren't that bad, my new baselines were much more stable too.

I'll rotate my herbs and if I feel the effect in the first pill in the morning I'll be taking like 5-7 pills in the day, because I think this will make recovery faster and more stable, at least that's what I did when I reached 75%.

[TubZy]

Careful with DHEA- it can actually do more harm than good if you adrenals aren't in place. I had very low cortisol coming off fin (I crashed from being high cortisol while on fin) and couldn't tolerate anything that lowered cortisol b/c my cortisol was already tanked. That was the only time I actually "crashed" was when I was using stimulants to counter the PFS fatigue (I didn't realize it was from PFS at the time) and eventually my adrenals/thyroid just gave out causing low cortisol which is why I attribute to preg helping me and mainly preg only. You can add in all the extra stuff but at least in my case I was such in bad shape that my cortisol and preg levels were so depleted.

That is why I suggest, pregnenolone as a base always. It will back fill whatever hormones are missing (even cortisol if it's too low). DHEA has strong antagonism to cortisol so it will lower cortisol even lower and increase estrogen in doses of 10mg+ a day. I can only get away with a few mg's of DHEA in combo with preg. Any more than that I feel much worse. DHEA isn't necessary, I actually think preg + 5a-DHP would be safer.

Even certain supplements like too much taurine or K2 can make me feel worse due to the lowering effect of estrogen/cortisol.

25mg of DHEA is crazy way too much. The studies showed that any more of 10mg of DHEA daily will increase E for sure.

[DrivenToRecover]

GUYS, this stuff might actually be working for me!!! It does its thing so slow... I can't tell if I'm just imagining things or it's working, but here's what I'll report so far:

> One day I took this stuff and had HUGE energy and determination. Destroyed the gym that day
> For some reason, I'm eating a ton but it almost seems like it's HARDER for me to gain weight now... I've been seeing my weight go down and down on the scale.
> One day, I felt like my memory was definitely better
> Taking this stuff in the morning, then taking Glycine at night.... I CRASH harddddddddddddddddd. Sleep is sooooo good
> As of yesterday, I felt like I may have more feeling in my dick. This wasn't even a symptom I was really worried about, but for some reason I felt like I could feel more down there.
> Today, I woke up feeling like the dark circles under my eyes look better!! I kept staring in the mirror thinking it must be my imagination or just me putting extra hope in this stuff.... but they may actually be!!

Gonna continue taking this stuff and posting results. Currently trying to find a way to purchase any of these: hyaluronic acid, DHEA, and pregnenolone. Don't get me wrong, I know where to find the stuff, but I have a corn allergy and corn is in TONS of supplements in the form of magnesium stearate, "vegetable stearate", or cellulose.

Are you sure magnesium stearate, vegetable stearate, and cellulose are all from corn? Source?

I've cut out all grains because even trace amounts have been shown to prolong autoimmune issues...So this is frustrating to hear.

Not every supplement has a pure powder form & it seems all capsules have those ingredients.
Pure encapsulations is a pretty good brand for hypoallergenic pills but even those have cellulose.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

The same stuff you bought 5a-DHP from is free of contamients- Haiduts stuff.

He offers preg and dhea etc both non dmso and dmso version.

[Atticas]

The same stuff you bought 5a-DHP from is free of contamients- Haiduts stuff.

He offers preg and dhea etc both non dmso and dmso version.

Sweet!!!

Alright, i'll buy it from him shortly then. Thanks man!

Any idea what would be a healthy dosage to use of this stuff since it'd be in liquid form?

[TubZy]

Sweet!!!

Alright, i'll buy it from him shortly then. Thanks man!

Any idea what would be a healthy dosage to use of this stuff since it'd be in liquid form?

Dosage is much lower- it's pretty concetrated. The dosage in mg's is on the bottle. It's like the 5a-DHP it comes in a little bottle and is super concentrated per drop.