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Hulk Smash
12-28-2016, 11:39 PM
Whats up guys! Hope you're all doing good. Looks like I found a place where I can recover and grow.(Wish I had found it sooner)

Brief intro:

6-7 months usage from July 2015-Jan 2016
Slow subtle crashing since then until complete meltdown in Oct 2016
mental and physical side effects

Goals:

Learn from everyone here, motivation, recover from this b.s., get my life back and more

CannonBalls
12-29-2016, 01:07 AM
Just the right mindset needed to recover, Hulk! Welcome and you will heal, just follow cds protocol. You got this!

Hulk Smash
12-29-2016, 04:51 PM
Thanks Cannon. I'll be doing my best. And thanks to CD for leading the way.

As of now:

I'm juicing once a day and keeping a sugar/alcohol/gluten/bread/caffeine-free diet

70% vegetables/30% meats (as organic as possible)

Multi-vitamin with probiotics, vitamin D3 5,000 iu, vitamin C 1,000 iu, horse chestnut

Tongat Ali & Tribulus

Taking it slow with weights at the moment

Hulk Smash
12-30-2016, 04:57 PM
I'm taking Tribulus from World ABS now. Is there another brand you guys recommend?

DrivenToRecover
12-30-2016, 05:20 PM
I'm taking Tribulus from World ABS now. Is there another brand you guys recommend?

I'm curious on this too. Liftmode tribulus on amazon is out of stock.

Maxout777
12-30-2016, 05:23 PM
I'm taking Tribulus from World ABS now. Is there another brand you guys recommend?

Tribulus is probably fine from there. Not a whole ton of quality suppliers in that market, IMO. Liftmode would be my go to, but it's been out of stock for MONTHS. I use NutraBio, it's OK....But Tribulus is probably my least favorite herb anyway.

Also, try to get to at least 7 herbs if you can, to do a once a week cycle per herb. If you just cycle those two, you're going to gain a tolerance to them fast and they won't benefit you as much. If money is tight at the moment, just buy them as you can. This will benefit you quite a bit. Everything else looks good to go though my man.

DrivenToRecover
12-30-2016, 05:34 PM
Tribulus is probably fine from there. Not a whole ton of quality suppliers in that market, IMO. Liftmode would be my go to, but it's been out of stock for MONTHS. I use NutraBio, it's OK....But Tribulus is probably my least favorite herb anyway.

Also, try to get to at least 7 herbs if you can, to do a once a week cycle per herb. If you just cycle those two, you're going to gain a tolerance to them fast and they won't benefit you as much. If money is tight at the moment, just buy them as you can. This will benefit you quite a bit. Everything else looks good to go though my man.

Is it tribulus that I've heard sometimes has saw palmetto mixed in on low quality brands?

I think I remember that from somewhere...

CD if your reading this mate remember to update the herb thread with your recomended sources when you get the chance. A few new faces here that will undoubtedly benefit.


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Hulk Smash
12-30-2016, 06:24 PM
Thanks Driven & Maxout

I'll try to get my hands on the Liftmode and a few other herbs. I really hope theres no saw palmetto mixed in any tribulus out there.

Maxout777
12-30-2016, 06:50 PM
Is it tribulus that I've heard sometimes has saw palmetto mixed in on low quality brands?

I think I remember that from somewhere...

CD if your reading this mate remember to update the herb thread with your recomended sources when you get the chance. A few new faces here that will undoubtedly benefit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe it's Tribulus alatus, not Tribulus terrestis that has beta sitosterol in it.

Cdsnuts
12-31-2016, 12:07 AM
Thanks Cannon. I'll be doing my best. And thanks to CD for leading the way.

As of now:

I'm juicing once a day and keeping a sugar/alcohol/gluten/bread/caffeine-free diet

70% vegetables/30% meats (as organic as possible)

Multi-vitamin with probiotics, vitamin D3 5,000 iu, vitamin C 1,000 iu, horse chestnut

Tongat Ali & Tribulus

Taking it slow with weights at the moment

Welcome.

Juicing once a day is a great life practice, but what you need to do before starting anything is CLEANSE. This will set the baseline from what you will build your new self upon. You need to take out the garbage, tear down the walls and start fresh.

I HIGHLY suggest doing the first mental challenge of several to come.....either juice feast or water fast for two weeks. This is a HUGE part of starting off on the right foot so to speak. Your body and mind will take to the program much quicker and with zest when starting out on a clean slate.

I also suggest you immediately start doing the Wim Hof breathing method twice a day...once in the morning after rising, and later on in the afternoon. No need to buy the program unless you want the real specifics. There are plenty of places to get the information online for free not too mention learning all that this breathing exercise can do for you.

Start doing these things.....now.

We're all here to help and we have alot of smart, dedicated guys that know their shit and are getting results.

Also...ditch the multi vitamin and Vit. C. You should be getting all you need from fresh produce and herbs. Instead of the multi, use pine pollen from this list to get your vitamins in bio-avaiable form :CD's Natural Testosterone boosting regimen (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/supplements/2912-cds-natural-testosterone-boosting-regimen.html#post49166)

Cdsnuts
12-31-2016, 12:11 AM
Is it tribulus that I've heard sometimes has saw palmetto mixed in on low quality brands?

I think I remember that from somewhere...

CD if your reading this mate remember to update the herb thread with your recomended sources when you get the chance. A few new faces here that will undoubtedly benefit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's on my to do list Driven....trying to crank the site out as quick as possible

This is the site as of now: Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.TotalMaleOptimization.com) It's not close to finished but it's up and active for search engine purposes. Right now I'm in the process of transferring already written content into the site. There are links that are broken, it's ugly, there are no pictures or graphics, it needs grammar and spelling checks, there are things that are missing, and like I said, about 40% done. But at least you will have a taste of what's to come as the basic skeleton of the site is complete. I'm also open to suggestions on additions to the site if there are somethings you don't see there that you would like to. Once all of the content is in, I'm going to have a professional web designer make it look nice and pretty. AND.....just because you see some sections have content, that doesn't mean that those sections are anywhere near complete......The material is going to be VERY in-depth....

I'm self employed and run my business full time, so the last thing I feel like doing after a 12 hour day, the gym, food prep, etc, is sitting down to write unfortunately.

I'm getting it out as fast as I can fellas.

I'm hoping that we can all use swole source for site discussions as I've been talking to Rob about this. We will see. The site is going to be a complete one stop shop for a total manhood overhaul for ALL men, not just PFSer's. It would be nice to have a positive place to discuss everything related to the site material without me having to create my own forum.

I think that is something alot of these self improvement sites lack, is a place where you can actually discuss the material...questions you have, results you're getting, etc. It would be nice to be able to have that be here, at Swole Source.

DrivenToRecover
12-31-2016, 02:06 AM
It's on my to do list Driven....trying to crank the site out as quick as possible

This is the site as of now: Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.TotalMaleOptimization.com) It's not close to finished but it's up and active for search engine purposes. Right now I'm in the process of transferring already written content into the site. There are links that are broken, it's ugly, there are no pictures or graphics, it needs grammar and spelling checks, there are things that are missing, and like I said, about 40% done. But at least you will have a taste of what's to come as the basic skeleton of the site is complete. I'm also open to suggestions on additions to the site if there are somethings you don't see there that you would like to. Once all of the content is in, I'm going to have a professional web designer make it look nice and pretty. AND.....just because you see some sections have content, that doesn't mean that those sections are anywhere near complete......The material is going to be VERY in-depth....

I'm self employed and run my business full time, so the last thing I feel like doing after a 12 hour day, the gym, food prep, etc, is sitting down to write unfortunately.

I'm getting it out as fast as I can fellas.

I'm hoping that we can all use swole source for site discussions as I've been talking to Rob about this. We will see. The site is going to be a complete one stop shop for a total manhood overhaul for ALL men, not just PFSer's. It would be nice to have a positive place to discuss everything related to the site material without me having to create my own forum.

I think that is something alot of these self improvement sites lack, is a place where you can actually discuss the material...questions you have, results you're getting, etc. It would be nice to be able to have that be here, at Swole Source.

Spell check #1: masturbation is misspelled...lol

In all seriousness I like the content you have so far and that's a pretty solid domain!

Cdsnuts
12-31-2016, 02:10 AM
Spell check #1: masturbation is misspelled...lol

In all seriousness I like the content you have so far and that's a pretty solid domain!
Thanks brother... Like I said, a work in progress. Lol. I have big plans for that site... One day at a time.



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Hulk Smash
01-02-2017, 04:34 PM
Welcome.

Juicing once a day is a great life practice, but what you need to do before starting anything is CLEANSE. This will set the baseline from what you will build your new self upon. You need to take out the garbage, tear down the walls and start fresh.

I HIGHLY suggest doing the first mental challenge of several to come.....either juice feast or water fast for two weeks. This is a HUGE part of starting off on the right foot so to speak. Your body and mind will take to the program much quicker and with zest when starting out on a clean slate.

I also suggest you immediately start doing the Wim Hof breathing method twice a day...once in the morning after rising, and later on in the afternoon. No need to buy the program unless you want the real specifics. There are plenty of places to get the information online for free not too mention learning all that this breathing exercise can do for you.

Start doing these things.....now.

We're all here to help and we have alot of smart, dedicated guys that know their shit and are getting results.

Also...ditch the multi vitamin and Vit. C. You should be getting all you need from fresh produce and herbs. Instead of the multi, use pine pollen from this list to get your vitamins in bio-avaiable form :CD's Natural Testosterone boosting regimen (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/supplements/2912-cds-natural-testosterone-boosting-regimen.html#post49166)

Thanks CD! A solid foundation is a great way to start 2017!
Started the cleanse today. I know I really need it. I'll be juice feasting for two weeks. I'm researching the Wim Hof method and I'll be incorporating that too.
I'll throw some tai chi in the mix someday in the future. It can also be very helpful from what I've read and word of mouth.

Will be getting Black ant and pine pollen asap. May take a few weeks, but I'll grow my herb supply.

Should I be taking the herbs during the juice feast?

Cdsnuts
01-02-2017, 04:37 PM
Thanks CD! A solid foundation is a great way to start 2017!
Started the cleanse today. I know I really need it. I'll be juice feasting for two weeks. I'm researching the Wim Hof method and I'll be incorporating that too.
I'll throw some tai chi in the mix someday in the future. It can also be very helpful from what I've read and word of mouth.

Will be getting Black ant and pine pollen asap. May take a few weeks, but I'll grow my herb supply.

Should I be taking the herbs during the juice feast?
No herbs or anything during the juice feast... Just cleanse, breathe, and try to relax and let your body do its thing. If you have access to a sauna or steam room, use those daily if possible. And even though you're going to be taking in 4-6 quarts of fresh juice, still make sure you're drinking enough plain water as well.

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Hulk Smash
02-01-2017, 09:53 AM
Should I be taking Pine Pollen everyday as I rotate herbs?

Should I take it at the same time as the herb? Or a few hours before/after?

Is the minimum 1/2 tsp enough?

Whats the most effective approach with Pine Pollen?

Maxout777
02-01-2017, 09:54 AM
Should I be taking Pine Pollen everyday as I rotate herbs?

Should I take it at the same time as the herb? Or a few hours before/after?

Is the minimum 1/2 tsp enough?

Whats my best approach with Pine Pollen?
I take 2-3 tablespoons a day of it depending on my supply since it's so hard to get most of the time now. Whether or not you wanna take that much is up to your preference and what you can budget for PP alone, but I would take it daily in some shape or form.

Cdsnuts
02-03-2017, 06:39 PM
Should I be taking Pine Pollen everyday as I rotate herbs?

Should I take it at the same time as the herb? Or a few hours before/after?

Is the minimum 1/2 tsp enough?

Whats the most effective approach with Pine Pollen?

I would take it daily in the beginning...3 teaspoons a day, spaced out evenly. As your hormonal health grows, you'll feel the need for less and less of it. I still love it, but it's almost too strong for me now. I can't get anything done besides chase my woman around the house....poor thing.

Hulk Smash
02-04-2017, 11:00 AM
Thanks Maxout & Cd.

So far I've regained mental clarity and focus. The tinnitus is much less; I get through the day without
it slowing me down. This is great, especially since I'm taking 4 classes this semester.
Now I'm confident I'll be graduating in a few years with no troubles.

I'm hearing music in my mind sometimes and have a decent level of enjoyment watching
a movie and interacting with people. There still room for improvement in feeling the music and getting
that complete connection to emotion. I believe I'll get it all back with time. I was big into music so I can't
wait to have that feeling when hearing a drum beat or sweet bass notes.

I have little to no pains/twitches in my body now too which is also a big plus!

I learned turmeric is no good for me; noticed it made some things come back when I'd drink it.
Looked it up and apparently it has something that mimics estrogen. Its like artificial estrogen.
So I'm staying away. I'll stick to ginger for that little kick in my juices and tea.

Hope everyones having a great weekend!

Cdsnuts
02-04-2017, 11:04 AM
Thanks Maxout & Cd.

So far I've regained mental clarity and focus. The tinnitus is much less; I get through the day without
it slowing me down. This is great, especially since I'm taking 4 classes this semester.
Now I'm confident I'll be graduating in a few years with no troubles.

I'm hearing music in my mind sometimes and have a decent level of enjoyment watching
a movie and interacting with people. There still room for improvement in feeling the music and getting
that complete connection to emotion. I believe I'll get it all back with time. I was big into music so I can't
wait to have that feeling when hearing a drum beat or sweet bass notes.

I have little to no pains in my body now too which is also a big plus!

I learned turmeric is no good for me. I noticed it made some things come back when I'd drink it.
I looked it up and apparently it has something that mimics estrogen. Its like artificial estrogen.
So I'm staying away. I'll stick to ginger for that little kick in my juices and tea.

Hope everyones having a great weekend!

Sounds like you're well on your way. Congrats.

Hulk Smash
02-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Is Reishi a good addition to my rotation?

I didn't see it on the list but it seems very beneficial.

Cdsnuts
02-04-2017, 02:21 PM
Is Reishi a good addition to my rotation?

I didn't see it on the list but it seems very beneficial.

The 21 on the list aren't enough? Lol.

Stick to the list just to be safe. Some people have negative reactions with reishi.....PFS guys anyway.

Hulk Smash
02-05-2017, 01:20 PM
The 21 on the list aren't enough? Lol.

Stick to the list just to be safe. Some people have negative reactions with reishi.....PFS guys anyway.

No reishi then lol

thanks

Hulk Smash
02-06-2017, 12:19 PM
I hope this helps some guys get on the path to recovery

I'm a musician. Wrote songs for different genres. Was very close to seeing my hard work pay off but life started happening. I was hit by a car at the start of 2016. I was thrown at least 20 feet.
Took me about 3 months to recover. Soon after this, I started noticing very mild signs of a crash but I thought nothing of it. My mind and emotions were already compromised so I was struggling musically but couldn't make
the connection to the cause. First major physical sign was the pain in my hands.
I couldn't grip the olympic bar without feeling pain; couldn't even play a note on guitar. Guess what?
I powered through it (I still am). What followed months later was a complete melt down mentally and physically.
At this point my music is pretty much out the window. Music is who I am, and it didn't feel great letting it go.
But as they say "if you let it go and it comes back to you then it was meant to be"

That was a whole year of b.s. Life can change and we must adapt or perish. This is survival mode now.
No time to wallow in the past. This is another fight, soon to be another win.

After crashing:
Still have my girl, taking classes at college, starting a new job soon.
I thought I lost it all, and almost did...but I'm still here fighting and getting better one day at a time.

jimmyjonas
02-06-2017, 04:51 PM
I hope this helps some guys get on the path to recovery

I'm a musician. Wrote songs for different genres. Was very close to seeing my hard work pay off but life started happening. I was hit by a car at the start of 2016. I was thrown at least 20 feet.
Took me about 3 months to recover. Soon after this, I started noticing very mild signs of a crash but I thought nothing of it. My mind and emotions were already compromised so I was struggling musically but couldn't make
the connection to the cause. First major physical sign was the pain in my hands.
I couldn't grip the olympic bar without feeling pain; couldn't even play a note on guitar. Guess what?
I powered through it (I still am). What followed months later was a complete melt down mentally and physically.
At this point my music is pretty much out the window. Music is who I am, and it didn't feel great letting it go.
But as they say "if you let it go and it comes back to you then it was meant to be"

That was a whole year of b.s. Life can change and we must adapt or perish. This is survival mode now.
No time to wallow in the past. This is another fight, soon to be another win.

After crashing:
Still have my girl, taking classes at college, starting a new job soon.
I thought I lost it all, and almost did...but I'm still here fighting and getting better one day at a time.

Good to hear you are improving man, Im also a musician and was a pretty prolific songwriter and session guitarist always working on ideas on GarageBand and working in studio, I was gearing up to start recording a solo album just as this shit started so one thing that's gone for now is my creativity as my mind and focus are always pulled back on my symptoms and I can't get that other place feeling you need for songwriting BUT when I get out the other side of this shit I will have a lot more to write about no doubt, great music often comes from suffering, I'm also hoping to gain more discipline from this regime and that that will improve my career as a musician. Good luck on your recovery man.

Hulk Smash
02-10-2017, 04:38 PM
Good to hear you are improving man, Im also a musician and was a pretty prolific songwriter and session guitarist always working on ideas on GarageBand and working in studio, I was gearing up to start recording a solo album just as this shit started so one thing that's gone for now is my creativity as my mind and focus are always pulled back on my symptoms and I can't get that other place feeling you need for songwriting BUT when I get out the other side of this shit I will have a lot more to write about no doubt, great music often comes from suffering, I'm also hoping to gain more discipline from this regime and that that will improve my career as a musician. Good luck on your recovery man.

Thanks jimmy. The music will have soul again one day; its returning slowly.
Stay with it bro. Good luck to you too.

Cdsnuts
02-10-2017, 04:39 PM
Thanks jimmy. The music will have soul again one day; its returning slowly.
Stay with it bro. Good luck to you too.
It most definitely will...Just stick to the program and before you know it this will be a thing of the past.

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Hulk Smash
02-13-2017, 03:21 PM
I'm seeing many things lately...

Whats the point of rat studies, unless you're having studies done on yourself
after you've recovered 100% to compare it to and document progress?

Guys say this works or that doesn't work....
I go to read their posts and find they've only been on the regime for about a year
and may not have even been following it 100%...

I've found a consistent recovery time ranging from 2-4 years. So one year is not enough.

Hope to see more posts about the progress being made...Its what helped me believe I can beat this

Cdsnuts
02-13-2017, 03:31 PM
I'm seeing many things lately...

Whats the point of rat studies, unless you're having studies done on yourself
after you've recovered 100% to compare it to and document progress?

Guys say this works or that doesn't work....
I go to read their posts and find they've only been on the regime for about a year
and may not have even been following it 100%...

I've found a consistent recovery time ranging from 2-4 years. So one year is not enough.

Hope to see more posts about the progress being made...Its what helped me believe I can beat this
You are correct.

A lot of the guys I've been working with will start off strong for a month and then things will slowly drop off to the side so much so that a lot of them are only doing half of what they should be doing. This isn't going to work, obviously.

Nobody ever said it was going to be easy, to the contrary actually. But for the guys who can hold it together and weather the ups and downs they're guaranteed to make it through to the other side.

Remember...TIME + CONSISTENCY = RESULTS

Always.

Something to note... I noticed for myself and I verified this with other people going through the same thing... when you're in a valley and feeling low and your mood is bad and you're feeling frustrated and anxious, this is usually a sign that you're about to graduate to the next level.

Unfortunately if it gets too rough for some guys they throw in the towel while if they just would have held on for another day or so, that would have been rewarded with a few steps forward

Remember this when things get tough. This is the dance you have to do for as long as it takes. The longer you go and the more consistent you are the easier it becomes to stay strong through the rough patches

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Hulk Smash
02-17-2017, 04:24 PM
I got my blood results back.

Testosterone needs improvement.

DHEA is below normal range.

Thyroid is VERY low.

Is DHEA made by the adrenal glands?

Are the herbs/exercise/diet enough to overcome this?

Is there more I can do to recover my thyroid and adrenals?

TubZy
02-17-2017, 04:33 PM
I got my blood results back.

Testosterone needs improvement.

DHEA is below normal range.

Thyroid is VERY low.

Is DHEA made by the adrenal glands?

Are the herbs/exercise/diet enough to overcome this?

Is there more I can do to recover my thyroid and adrenals?

When thyroid improves everything else will. I would get on pine pollen right away which has contains androsterone and DHEA. Both of which are pro-metabolic and are in amounts where it would help upregulate endogenous production. Make sure your cholesterol is high enough so thyroid has raw material.

Also, make sure minerals are good especially magnesium and selenium along with all of the fat soluble vitamins.

When your thyroid improves the adrenals will along with DHEA and T will go up. Resistance exercise should help as it increases thyroid conversion but overdoing it will increase cortisol and actually cause the opposite so don't over train and keep the sets short.

Cdsnuts
02-17-2017, 04:49 PM
I got my blood results back.

Testosterone needs improvement.

DHEA is below normal range.

Thyroid is VERY low.

Is DHEA made by the adrenal glands?

Are the herbs/exercise/diet enough to overcome this?

Is there more I can do to recover my thyroid and adrenals?

By following the protocol outlined here and on my site, EVERYTHING will eventually work itself out. If you commit 100% without hesitation, there will be no need for further blood work unless you just wanted to do it out of curiosity. You'll have ups and downs, but you will level out and then eventually all your numbers will get themselves back into a healthy range.

This is the holistic way to treat yourself. No need to bandaid this and tweak that....just follow the protocol.

If you did want extra thyroid support, I used a product way back when that really got it moving fast. https://www.amazon.com/OPTIMOX-Iodoral-Potency-Potassium-Supplement/dp/B000X843VG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1487371675&sr=1-1&keywords=iodarol&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=totmal-20&linkId=55a402aaa025ac52d3be9ab93492a9b6

You'll notice a difference in days.

Other then that, just stick to the program and all will work itself out.

Hulk Smash
03-02-2017, 10:44 PM
Could Exotic Herbs Carry Epigenetic Health Benefits? - What is Epigenetics? (http://www.whatisepigenetics.com/could-exotic-herbs-carry-epigenetic-health-benefits/)

Herbal Medicine Alters Genes, Cell Mitosis and Epigenome - Heal Naturally (http://www.realnatural.org/herbal-medicine-alters-genes-cell-mitosis-and-epigenome/)

Cdsnuts
03-02-2017, 10:46 PM
Could Exotic Herbs Carry Epigenetic Health Benefits? - What is Epigenetics? (http://www.whatisepigenetics.com/could-exotic-herbs-carry-epigenetic-health-benefits/)

Hence the infinite intelligence of herbs. A gift from the earth.

xxLUK
03-11-2017, 03:09 AM
hey hulk how long did it take since starting the regime to feeling the emotional clarity/brainfog lift? just curious

Hulk Smash
03-14-2017, 01:49 PM
hey hulk how long did it take since starting the regime to feeling the emotional clarity/brainfog lift? just curious

xxLuk,

I gained significant emotional/mental improvements after a few months.
From my experience the fasting and juicing really helps the mental/emotional issues.
It took about 3 months total for decent progress.

How long have you been on the regimen? Are you improving mentally/emotionally?

xxLUK
03-14-2017, 05:41 PM
xxLuk,

I gained significant emotional/mental improvements after a few months.
From my experience the fasting and juicing really helps the mental/emotional issues.
It took about 3 months total for decent progress.

How long have you been on the regimen? Are you improving mentally/emotionally?
ive been on the regime now for 8 weeks. i juice once a day and drink drink milk kefir half half with coconut water (almost zero carbs, just protein and fat, one of the best probiotic foods in the world if not the best), i havent seen much improvements in mental/emotional realm but mainly digestive. But I have noticed im starting to obsess over wanting to buy certain things like a watch for my self or some clothes, i think that may be a sign of improvement (at the start i wouldnt have cared if someone even gave me 100million dollars)

Cheers for your insight Hulk, I feel like I can relate to you a lot tbh

Cdsnuts
03-14-2017, 05:44 PM
ive been on the regime now for 8 weeks. i juice once a day and drink drink milk kefir half half with coconut water (almost zero carbs, just protein and fat, one of the best probiotic foods in the world if not the best), i havent seen much improvements in mental/emotional realm but mainly digestive. But I have noticed im starting to obsess over wanting to buy certain things like a watch for my self or some clothes, i think that may be a sign of improvement (at the start i wouldnt have cared if someone even gave me 100million dollars)

Cheers for your insight Hulk, I feel like I can relate to you a lot tbh

So then you didn't do the cleanse?

Without it, I wouldn't say you're actually on the regimen yet. You may be doing parts of it, but not what is TOTALLY necessary.

That's a very, very important first step in starting the regimen my friend.

If you want to see improvements in the departments you mention, this is the best way to kick that off. Most people will gain a tremendous amount of clarity and emotional poise during the cleanse as this is to be expected from this.

Juicing once a day, while healthy and a good life practice, is not enough to cleanse the system fully and completely. Especially when in the throws of PFS.

xxLUK
03-14-2017, 07:07 PM
So then you didn't do the cleanse?

Without it, I wouldn't say you're actually on the regimen yet. You may be doing parts of it, but not what is TOTALLY necessary.

That's a very, very important first step in starting the regimen my friend.

If you want to see improvements in the departments you mention, this is the best way to kick that off. Most people will gain a tremendous amount of clarity and emotional poise during the cleanse as this is to be expected from this.

Juicing once a day, while healthy and a good life practice, is not enough to cleanse the system fully and completely. Especially when in the throws of PFS.

I've done a cleanse all ready

Cdsnuts
03-14-2017, 07:08 PM
I've done a cleanse all ready,


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Good....



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xxLUK
03-14-2017, 07:57 PM
Good....



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thanks.......

Hulk Smash
03-16-2017, 10:33 PM
I've been dealing with pretty bad pain in the palm side of my hands for months.
They are tender to pressure. When I grip something strongly or do push ups, my bones ache
but only on the palm side. My joints don't crack and I don't have bone pain anywhere else.

I'm just wondering if any of you guys dealt with this?
Any recommendations?

xxLUK
03-17-2017, 01:14 AM
I've been dealing with pretty bad pain in the palm side of my hands for months.
They are tender to pressure. When I grip something strongly or do push ups, my bones ache
but only on the palm side. My joints don't crack and I don't have bone pain anywhere else.

I'm just wondering if any of you guys dealt with this?
Any recommendations?
i get that too and in my wrists at random times also, i just ignore it tbh. you use MSM? MSM has helped all my joint related problems

Hulk Smash
03-17-2017, 01:47 PM
i get that too and in my wrists at random times also, i just ignore it tbh. you use MSM? MSM has helped all my joint related problems

I haven't tried MSM. I'll consider taking it, thanks.

Benq123
03-21-2017, 04:02 AM
I got my blood results back.

Testosterone needs improvement.

DHEA is below normal range.

Thyroid is VERY low.

Is DHEA made by the adrenal glands?

Are the herbs/exercise/diet enough to overcome this?

Is there more I can do to recover my thyroid and adrenals?

Did you follow Tubzys and CD's advice on thyroid issue (how low was it)? If so, has it improved since then? My latest thyroid readings are now low (after being good 3 months ago) so Im considering the same approach.

Benq123
03-21-2017, 04:17 AM
When thyroid improves everything else will. I would get on pine pollen right away which has contains androsterone and DHEA. Both of which are pro-metabolic and are in amounts where it would help upregulate endogenous production. Make sure your cholesterol is high enough so thyroid has raw material.

Also, make sure minerals are good especially magnesium and selenium along with all of the fat soluble vitamins.

When your thyroid improves the adrenals will along with DHEA and T will go up. Resistance exercise should help as it increases thyroid conversion but overdoing it will increase cortisol and actually cause the opposite so don't over train and keep the sets short.

When you say "get on pine pollen..." do you mean daily dosage or as part of the cycle? I have pine pollen on order. My serum cholestrol 7 months ago was 3.4 mmol/L (131.48 mg/dl) which I think is high enough as long as no change since(?). Do I need to have this, magnesium and selenium tested (I think my diet gives enough)?

Cdsnuts
03-21-2017, 06:17 AM
When you say "get on pine pollen..." do you mean daily dosage or as part of the cycle? I have pine pollen on order. My serum cholestrol 7 months ago was 3.4 mmol/L (131.48 mg/dl) which I think is high enough as long as no change since(?). Do I need to have this, magnesium and selenium tested (I think my diet gives enough)?

You'll never have enough magnesium...especially if you were already deficient. Magnesium | (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/sleep/magnesium/)

This just happen to hit my box today:
Why Magnesium is the Most Powerful Relaxation Mineral Known to Man : The Hearty Soul (http://theheartysoul.com/powerful-relaxation-mineral/?t=THS)

Hulk Smash
03-21-2017, 10:38 AM
Did you follow Tubzys and CD's advice on thyroid issue (how low was it)? If so, has it improved since then? My latest thyroid readings are now low (after being good 3 months ago) so Im considering the same approach.

I think its a bit too soon for me to have major improvement.
The advice they gave makes sense and I'm following it.
Now I'm just waiting for a new baseline.

Speaking of...I heard you feel like crap when reaching a new baseline.
I wonder if I'll recognize this feeling. Guess I'll know when it happens.

Benq123
03-21-2017, 12:16 PM
I think its a bit too soon for me to have major improvement.
The advice they gave makes sense and I'm following it.
Now I'm just waiting for a new baseline.

Speaking of...I heard you feel like crap when reaching a new baseline.
I wonder if I'll recognize this feeling. Guess I'll know when it happens.

So you are on the supplement CD suggested? I'm considering trying it myself but was hoping you'd had a boost from it.

Can I see your thyroid results if possible? Just comparing with myself
Cheers

Maxout777
03-21-2017, 01:24 PM
I think its a bit too soon for me to have major improvement.
The advice they gave makes sense and I'm following it.
Now I'm just waiting for a new baseline.

Speaking of...I heard you feel like crap when reaching a new baseline.
I wonder if I'll recognize this feeling. Guess I'll know when it happens.

This is how it went for me. Everytime that I started feeling like crap, or worse than before, I ended up progressing up better than before over time. Lather, rinse, repeat. You're in the right headspace.

Cdsnuts
03-21-2017, 06:27 PM
I think its a bit too soon for me to have major improvement.
The advice they gave makes sense and I'm following it.
Now I'm just waiting for a new baseline.

Speaking of...I heard you feel like crap when reaching a new baseline.
I wonder if I'll recognize this feeling. Guess I'll know when it happens.

It's always darkest before the dawn.

You always feel the worst before breaking through to a new level. Always.

Hulk Smash
04-20-2017, 01:47 PM
I've had severe seasonal allergies for many years now.
Spring is here again and I don't want to lose momentum in my recovery.
I usually take over the counter anti-histamines but I don't know if its right for me during recovery.

Whats the verdict on allergy "meds"?

Cdsnuts
04-20-2017, 02:17 PM
I've had severe seasonal allergies for many years now.
Spring is here again and I don't want to lose momentum in my recovery.
I usually take over the counter anti-histamines but I don't know if its right for me during recovery.

Whats the verdict on allergy "meds"?

You have to becareful. Many antihistamines have a negative effect on testosterone levels.

I've found that when people with allergies eliminate dietary allergies, their other allergies disappear.

How is your diet?

Hulk Smash
04-20-2017, 03:55 PM
My diet is good overall but I have cheated a bit eating some junk food and bread here and there.
Not good for recovery, which is why I'm in the middle of a 7 day fast/feast at the moment.
After this I'll keep a strict diet in place...fasting is no fun

The only food allergy I have that I'm aware of is shell fish.
I ate some these past months on about 4 occasions.

Its possible to get rid of the shellfish and pollen allergies?

Maxout777
04-20-2017, 04:01 PM
Just something of note, my seasonal allergies which I've had all my life....Last year didn't show their head at all right after I crashed. This year, they're back full force. I almost consider this a part of becoming normalized, so there may be no way to rid them.

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Snell1234
04-20-2017, 06:08 PM
I can back this up. In my worst periods a couple of years ago, my asthma and hay fever completely disappeared. I thought I must have just outgrown my asthma. As I've been getting better, I have to watch my asthma again. Not that it's bad, just that I have 3 two week periods at the change of seasons here in Aus for whatever reason. Been that way my whole life and it seems to be back.

And I'm not even recovered yet - still have a way to go so maybe this is a good sign as it is in line with maxout's experience.

Cdsnuts
04-21-2017, 05:47 AM
Well, my experience is a bit different. I used to have allergies all my life before realizing the effect dietary intake had on all aspects of our life. Since living clean for the most part, I don't get them anymore.

As soon as I get glutened, whether purposely or by accident, my nose swells up, I get immediately congested and I start sneezing. It's amazing. If I happen to have gluten during allergy season, such as now, my allergies come back full force, just until the gluten is processed out of my system.

Unbelievable.

Snell1234
04-21-2017, 06:44 AM
Well, my experience is a bit different. I used to have allergies all my life before realizing the effect dietary intake had on all aspects of our life. Since living clean for the most part, I don't get them anymore.

As soon as I get glutened, whether purposely or by accident, my nose swells up, I get immediately congested and I start sneezing. It's amazing. If I happen to have gluten during allergy season, such as now, my allergies come back full force, just until the gluten is processed out of my system.

Unbelievable.

Have you ever been tested for celiacs? Did you notice these effects from gluten earlier in your life prior to pfs and your subsequent recovery?

I got tested as a kid for allergies. Wheat was okay, but I had slight allergies to dairy (very slight), potato, bananas and grass.

That corresponds with the things I can't do at the moment or they exacerbate my hormonal symptoms - if I have a potato, I notice an impact immediately. Gluten for me doesn't seem to be a problem which is good. I still have yoghurt every day because I believe the benefits to having it outweight the very, very slight allergy to dairy.

Cdsnuts
04-21-2017, 08:30 AM
Have you ever been tested for celiacs? Did you notice these effects from gluten earlier in your life prior to pfs and your subsequent recovery?

I got tested as a kid for allergies. Wheat was okay, but I had slight allergies to dairy (very slight), potato, bananas and grass.

That corresponds with the things I can't do at the moment or they exacerbate my hormonal symptoms - if I have a potato, I notice an impact immediately. Gluten for me doesn't seem to be a problem which is good. I still have yoghurt every day because I believe the benefits to having it outweight the very, very slight allergy to dairy.

I don't have celiacs...I'm no where near that bad. People with celiacs have life threatening reactions to gluten. I get horrible gas and bloating along with a foggy head and stuffy sinuses.....without fail, everytime.

Hulk Smash
04-21-2017, 01:39 PM
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'll stay away from antihistamines and bear with the allergies.
I guess its somewhat a good sign that I still have them.

It just sucks when I take the train or bus and tears come out the whole ride
...and the sneeze attacks lol

The gluten talk reminds me of my cousin.
I don't know if he was always allergic but at some point he started avoiding pizza a few years back.
He would get that bloated, tired, foggy feeling. Sometimes he'd give in and couldn't resist
the nyc slice. He'd always regret it after. I thought he was exaggerating but I see now that
its a very real problem for some. I hope they start making gluten-free pizza here.
I'll be staying away from it just because it looks like gluten is generally not good for the body.

I'm gonna miss you pizza...

Cdsnuts
04-21-2017, 02:13 PM
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'll stay away from antihistamines and bear with the allergies.
I guess its somewhat a good sign that I still have them.

It just sucks when I take the train or bus and tears come out the whole ride
...and the sneeze attacks lol

The gluten talk reminds me of my cousin.
I don't know if he was always allergic but at some point he started avoiding pizza a few years back.
He would get that bloated, tired, foggy feeling. Sometimes he'd give in and couldn't resist
the nyc slice. He'd always regret it after. I thought he was exaggerating but I see now that
its a very real problem for some. I hope they start making gluten-free pizza here.
I'll be staying away from it just because it looks like gluten is generally not good for the body.

I'm gonna miss you pizza...
Every once in awhile I'll eat a half a pie. I live in New Jersey and the pizza here is fantastic. But I do always regret it afterwards.

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Swill
04-21-2017, 04:24 PM
I've had a different experience to you guys again... my allergies showed up for the first time ever in the summer post-crash in 2013 (aged 27)... i'd never had hay fever before but it hit me bad, and did for the following 2 years after that too, although last year was much better and this year hasn't even shown up thus far. This does coincide with my improvements, but I'm just wondering if theres cause and effect given the large consensus here is that allergies left for most PFS guys... I know plenty of people who's hay fever just 'showed up' one year so perhaps thats it.

In relation to the antihistamine tablets i'd personally avoid them like the plague... I subscribe to a guys mailing list who puts out health stuff relating to things manhood and he quoted some studies linking the use of the pills to temporary ED, and also some darker stuff (maybe increased incidence of strokes?) with prolonged use. Enough to make me say no thanks anyway...

particularly as I have a hunch there is a possibility that putting a 'harmless' pharma into your body to cure a single ailment could possibly result in catastrophic issues in other areas *cough* once bitten...

Hulk Smash
05-03-2017, 10:06 AM
I'm trying out wearing one of those masks for the first time outdoors lol
I really hate that I have to use it but the allergies are slowing me down too much.

Its better than taking a antihistamine, so the temporary discomfort of wearing it outside is worth it.
Hopefully I can push my immune system in the right direction in the next few years to be rid of this.

Hulk Smash
05-03-2017, 10:11 AM
Whats the shelf-life of the pro-hormones and 5-dhp?

The herbs regimen is my path but I'm considering keeping some in stock in case.

Cdsnuts
05-03-2017, 10:14 AM
Whats the shelf-life of the pro-hormones and 5-dhp?

The herbs regimen is my path but I'm considering keeping some in stock in case.
A couple of years

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Hulk Smash
05-19-2017, 11:24 AM
I've been told by a few friends that they had seasonal allergies as children
but somehow grew out of it as they got older.
This leads me to think that my seasonal allergies don't have to be permanent.

I also have a friend that just got seasonal allergies this year at the age of 30.
My guess is that she has some kind of immune abnormality after suffering from colitis for
the past 3-4 years. During the first few years, she was taking pharmaceuticals to fight colitis.
(maybe anti-biotics...i have to ask)

I just caught up with my friend a few days ago and she told me
A young m.d. told suggested her to try probiotics after seeing the meds were barely keeping
her going. I think she'd have periods of recovery only to crash again into colitis.
She was underweight, had severe joint pain and difficulty with digestion.

Not surprisingly, she is now off the meds and is improving slowly.
All the doctors had been telling her she'd be on meds for life and only ONE doc told her to
try something natural smh...And to my knowledge she told her this off the record

Why am I writing this???

Its to give more belief to myself and others to follow a natural approach.
It may not bring instant gratification but will heal us over time.

I'll be on later (hopefully if I can find the time)
I need to share some disturbing things I've noticed on my campus this semester

RIP Chris Cornell

Cdsnuts
05-19-2017, 06:09 PM
I've been told by a few friends that they had seasonal allergies as children
but somehow grew out of it as they got older.
This leads me to think that my seasonal allergies don't have to be permanent.

I also have a friend that just got seasonal allergies this year at the age of 30.
My guess is that she has some kind of immune abnormality after suffering from colitis for
the past 3-4 years. During the first few years, she was taking pharmaceuticals to fight colitis.
(maybe anti-biotics...i have to ask)

I just caught up with my friend a few days ago and she told me
A young m.d. told suggested her to try probiotics after seeing the meds were barely keeping
her going. I think she'd have periods of recovery only to crash again into colitis.
She was underweight, had severe joint pain and difficulty with digestion.

Not surprisingly, she is now off the meds and is improving slowly.
All the doctors had been telling her she'd be on meds for life and only ONE doc told her to
try something natural smh...And to my knowledge she told her this off the record

Why am I writing this???

Its to give more belief to myself and others to follow a natural approach.
It may not bring instant gratification but will heal us over time.

I'll be on later (hopefully if I can find the time)
I need to share some disturbing things I've noticed on my campus this semester

RIP Chris Cornell

Such a shame about Cornell....one of my fav's for sure.

Curious as to the things you've seen on campus...you've piqued my curiosity.

Probiotics is a section that I'm going to eventually add to my site as the benefits of these little bugs are so wide spread it's hard to ignore. They are also connected to things you wouldn't think they would be. Very important to have a healthy gut biome.

Like I said, when I cleaned up my diet, my allergies disappeared. I can be outside now when it's thick with pollen without so much as a sniffle. You guys should know by now, natural is the only way to go...with everything. Pharmaceutical drugs have NO PLACE in the human body....at all.

Cdsnuts
05-19-2017, 06:12 PM
I've been told by a few friends that they had seasonal allergies as children
but somehow grew out of it as they got older.
This leads me to think that my seasonal allergies don't have to be permanent.

I also have a friend that just got seasonal allergies this year at the age of 30.
My guess is that she has some kind of immune abnormality after suffering from colitis for
the past 3-4 years. During the first few years, she was taking pharmaceuticals to fight colitis.
(maybe anti-biotics...i have to ask)

I just caught up with my friend a few days ago and she told me
A young m.d. told suggested her to try probiotics after seeing the meds were barely keeping
her going. I think she'd have periods of recovery only to crash again into colitis.
She was underweight, had severe joint pain and difficulty with digestion.

Not surprisingly, she is now off the meds and is improving slowly.
All the doctors had been telling her she'd be on meds for life and only ONE doc told her to
try something natural smh...And to my knowledge she told her this off the record

Why am I writing this???

Its to give more belief to myself and others to follow a natural approach.
It may not bring instant gratification but will heal us over time.

I'll be on later (hopefully if I can find the time)
I need to share some disturbing things I've noticed on my campus this semester

RIP Chris Cornell

Such a shame about Cornell....one of my fav's for sure.

Curious as to the things you've seen on campus...you've piqued my curiosity.

Probiotics is a section that I'm going to eventually add to my site as the benefits of these little bugs are so wide spread it's hard to ignore. They are also connected to things you wouldn't think they would be. Very important to have a healthy gut biome.

Like I said, when I cleaned up my diet, my allergies disappeared. I can be outside now when it's thick with pollen without so much as a sniffle. You guys should know by now, natural is the only way to go...with everything. Pharmaceutical drugs have NO PLACE in the human body....at all.

I've been slammed with work lately as I've decided to ramp up production on my day job so that I can generate more money to spend on the site. I want to start adding pictures to it and making it look a little nicer. After that, I'm going to start aggressively marketing it. This costs money unfortunately. This is why I haven't been around as much.

Hulk Smash
05-31-2017, 02:25 PM
I'm done with finals, now I'm dedicating more time to recovery!

Apparently Cornell was on pharmaceuticals...very unfortunate

I noticed quite a number of guys on campus have hormonal issues. The obvious sign was the gynecomastia
and the guys aren't overweight. Most look 19-22 yrs old. Its disturbing because they look too young to be taking
anything that caused their imbalance. This wasn't common in my generation, I'd only see it in overweight guys and even that was rare. Not sure what the cause is but I do wonder about their lifestyle, diet, family history.

The probiotics I noticed have helped me most is "MaryRuth Organics" kinda pricey but worth it.
I have a few other different probiotics set aside I'll try next once this is done.
Is it good to rotate probiotics? I read somewhere that its good to take a break from them and then start again.

The site is coming along great. Its already helping so many.

Holistic
05-31-2017, 04:33 PM
I'm done with finals, now I'm dedicating more time to recovery!

Apparently Cornell was on pharmaceuticals...very unfortunate

I noticed quite a number of guys on campus have hormonal issues. The obvious sign was the gynecomastia
and the guys aren't overweight. Most look 19-22 yrs old. Its disturbing because they look too young to be taking
anything that caused their imbalance. This wasn't common in my generation, I'd only see it in overweight guys and even that was rare. Not sure what the cause is but I do wonder about their lifestyle, diet, family history.

The probiotics I noticed have helped me most is "MaryRuth Organics" kinda pricey but worth it.
I have a few other different probiotics set aside I'll try next once this is done.
Is it good to rotate probiotics? I read somewhere that its good to take a break from them and then start again.

The site is coming along great. Its already helping so many.

Today I'm also done with finals! Lets commit 110% to this.
For probiotics I have made kefir and sauerkraut. I think I read somewhere that one must do a month of probiotics and then rest 2 weeks. Im not sure though

Hulk Smash
06-01-2017, 08:23 AM
Yea I'm all in for the recovery.
I'll admit I slacked off a few days ago and had 2 glasses of wine. Wasn't worth it at all.
I had a headache the entire next day and the tinnitus was back very heavy. I won't be drinking
again till I'm fully recovered. Not gonna risk losing progress or hurting my mind any further.
My body just can't handle the stress of alcohol right now.

I've cut out so much junk from my diet, one of the major things was soda especially pepsi and coke.
Now I'm eliminating all foods that contain natural flavors and chemical food coloring in the ingredients.
They apparently affect the mind from what I've read. It seems "natural" flavors probably manipulate the pleasure centers in the brain. And they probably down regulate things; thats just my guessing.

Hulk Smash
06-26-2017, 04:50 PM
I'm getting a forced rest for hopefully no more than a week. Looks like I over-did the running/sprinting smh.
Never had this issue in the past and I ran/sprinted much more than now.
Good news is no bones are broken and it appears to be nothing more than a tendon/ligament injury.
This could easily kill my motivation but I won't let it.
I'll get better and take it slower on my way to 100% recovery.

Keep at it everyone. Don't be discouraged!

Cdsnuts
06-26-2017, 05:43 PM
I'm getting a forced rest for hopefully no more than a week. Looks like I over-did the running/sprinting smh.
Never had this issue in the past and I ran/sprinted much more than now.
Good news is no bones are broken and it appears to be nothing more than a tendon/ligament injury.
This could easily kill my motivation but I won't let it.
I'll get better and take it slower on my way to 100% recovery.

Keep at it everyone. Don't be discouraged!

How did you do that?

I remember when I first started I got bad shin splints. I stepped back and took it slower, and built up to it. Sprints can easily wreck you if you're not careful.

Holistic
06-27-2017, 05:46 AM
I'm getting a forced rest for hopefully no more than a week. Looks like I over-did the running/sprinting smh.
Never had this issue in the past and I ran/sprinted much more than now.
Good news is no bones are broken and it appears to be nothing more than a tendon/ligament injury.
This could easily kill my motivation but I won't let it.
I'll get better and take it slower on my way to 100% recovery.

Keep at it everyone. Don't be discouraged!

It happened to me once, did not wait enough for tendon to heal and
Made it worse. I would recommend using an ankle / knee supporter and doing a bit of therapy. Swimming is also a good option while you recover


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Hulk Smash
07-13-2017, 09:48 PM
Update:

My ligament/tendon injury is pretty much at 80% healed. Another couple of weeks and my leg should be at 100%.
I also started losing the fat/weight gain. The fat was sticking to me but its finally melting away.
I hope to see the muscle definition like before!

Hulk Smash
07-16-2017, 11:06 AM
Update:

Ear sensitivity to loud noises is almost gone.

Getting deeper sleep lately and vivid dreams.

My body continues to respond well to weight training after recovering from injury.

Mind/body sexual connection coming back; still VERY weak but atleast it's there now.

Cdsnuts
07-16-2017, 12:29 PM
Update:

Ear sensitivity to loud noises is almost gone.

Getting deeper sleep lately and vivid dreams.

My body continues to respond well to weight training after recovering from injury.

Mind/body sexual connection coming back; still VERY weak but atleast it's there now.
Given your progress it'll give you a basic idea as to how much longer you need to keep going. Although you will have surges of healing you can use your progress as someone of a benchmark

Keep at it

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Maxout777
07-16-2017, 05:45 PM
Given your progress it'll give you a basic idea as to how much longer you need to keep going. Although you will have surges of healing you can use your progress as someone of a benchmark

Keep at it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Amen to this. I had a few surges, but for the most part, it was the same steady baseline improvement each time. Keep on truckin, bud.

Hulk Smash
07-25-2017, 03:35 AM
YOU MUST START THE REGIMEN TODAY if you ever took fin or sp

I thought I dodged a bullet when I stopped taking fin in Jan 2016.
I was crashing and didn't even know it because the symptoms were so minor that I barely noticed them.
It wasn't till about October 2016 that my body completely broke down.
Looking back now, I see the signs I missed and wish I would've started the regimen then.
Things could've been easier and I may not have crashed if I had someone advise me to follow this path.

I can't go back in time but I know I will recover someday.

If you took fin or sp even once, get on the regimen.
If you think you dodged a bullet or the docs say don't worry...GET ON THE REGIMEN.
You will have a much easier time and may even prevent yourself from crashing.

It's not worth waiting around or over-thinking

Research the protocol if you have doubts but start it now as you research. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It's all to your benefit.

At the very least you will take your strength, energy, stamina, mind and HEALTH to levels beyond most men.

Hulk Smash
08-04-2017, 03:25 PM
Muscle/Skin Issue:

So far my body is feeling better and better.
I'm finally getting strength gains in the gym, but I'm not sure if I'm gaining muscle mass again.
(I did lose muscle when I crashed)
The issue I'm having is the excess skin I have. I notice a few wrinkles in my bicep area that had none before.
The definition isn't there like before and neither is the healthy vascular vein look.

Has anyone experienced this issue and how did you combat it?
How do we get the definition and lean look back? Also whats up with the wrinkles?

Hulk Smash
08-05-2017, 01:16 AM
[QUOTE=Hulk Smash;55356]Muscle/Skin Issue:

So far my body is feeling better and better.
I'm finally getting strength gains in the gym, but I'm not sure if I'm gaining muscle mass again.
(I did lose muscle when I crashed)
The issue I'm having is the excess skin I have. I notice a few wrinkles in my bicep area that had none before.
The definition isn't there like before and neither is the healthy vascular vein look.

Has anyone experienced this issue and how did you combat it?
How do we get the definition and lean look back? Also whats up with the wrinkles?
[QUOTE]

I know the protocol most likely targets the extra skin/wrinkles and muscle loss in some way. I'd just like to know what aspect if the protocol does.

Also my reason for bringing this up to be sure I'm doing all I can to correct this.
To what degree do these specific issues recover? if anyone else has dealt with it...

I'll start targeting my muscles in new ways after another week of basic lifting to be sure my body can take it. This means super sets, extreme calisthenics, target muscles from every angle to rebuild muscles completely.

I think I may be low at the moment in nitrous oxide so I'll be supplementing arginine.
Perhaps this plays a role in the lack of vein and shred look?

My best guess is the wrinkles and lack of shred have more to do with muscle loss than fat deposits.

But again I ask the vets here what's your take guys???

Hulk Smash
08-08-2017, 02:49 PM
UPDATE:

Strength gains continue for me...I'm lifting near as much as I did in my gym years!
I'm losing the overall fat in my body. My hands are feeling much better most of the time.
The air hunger I had is fading away(thyroid is healthier).
The air hunger isn't there half the time; when it is, its very mild now.

These have been the fastest and first signs of physical progress for me.

The lines in my skin in certain areas are most likely due to the muscle loss I had/have?
Or perhaps I'm lacking in collagen at the moment?

Are any of you guys having muscle gains at the gym? More mass, leaner, shred???

jacknap
08-08-2017, 03:23 PM
UPDATE:

Strength gains continue for me...I'm lifting near as much as I did in my gym years!
I'm losing the overall fat in my body. My hands are feeling much better most of the time.
The air hunger I had is fading away(thyroid is healthier).
The air hunger isn't there half the time; when it is, its very mild now.

These have been the fastest and first signs of physical progress for me.

The lines in my skin in certain areas are most likely due to the muscle loss I had/have?
Or perhaps I'm lacking in collagen at the moment?

Are any of you guys having muscle gains at the gym? More mass, leaner, shred???

bro I literally got tank in like 4 days after carb-backloading. I've been keto for 6 weeks or so, so having oats before sleep on training days got me feeling hulk and pumped up my muscles.

i gained like 6 pounds to my old weight but literally seemed like it was all muscle and no fat put on :S

Durantia37
08-08-2017, 04:25 PM
UPDATE:

Strength gains continue for me...I'm lifting near as much as I did in my gym years!
I'm losing the overall fat in my body. My hands are feeling much better most of the time.
The air hunger I had is fading away(thyroid is healthier).
The air hunger isn't there half the time; when it is, its very mild now.

These have been the fastest and first signs of physical progress for me.

The lines in my skin in certain areas are most likely due to the muscle loss I had/have?
Or perhaps I'm lacking in collagen at the moment?

Are any of you guys having muscle gains at the gym? More mass, leaner, shred???

Hell yeah, dude. During upswings, it's unreal. Before PFS, I weighed 150 and could maybe max 155 on bench. Now I'm 170 maxing 190. I don't see how anyone can do this protocol for 6+ months and not be a badass physically.

Maxout777
08-08-2017, 05:16 PM
Hell yeah, dude. During upswings, it's unreal. Before PFS, I weighed 150 and could maybe max 155 on bench. Now I'm 170 maxing 190. I don't see how anyone can do this protocol for 6+ months and not be a badass physically.

It just keeps getting better and better. I'm the strongest I've ever been, even during my days in the military. I just hit a new max on bench in the gym today at 410. Most I've EVER even come close to getting.

Cdsnuts
08-08-2017, 05:29 PM
It just keeps getting better and better. I'm the strongest I've ever been, even during my days in the military. I just hit a new max on bench in the gym today at 410. Most I've EVER even come close to getting.Fucking beast!

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Durantia37
08-08-2017, 05:45 PM
It just keeps getting better and better. I'm the strongest I've ever been, even during my days in the military. I just hit a new max on bench in the gym today at 410. Most I've EVER even come close to getting.

Jesus Christ dude.

Hulk Smash
08-11-2017, 02:21 PM
Guys weird thing happened a few days ago...

I was whistling/singing along to music without making a conscious effort to connect to the music!
It was a sweet relief to have that natural connection to music/emotion.

The next day I got strong tinnitus again and a headache that finally subsided today.
I also don't feel much connection to music like the other day.
Still have the tinnitus but I know this will pass.

I think I just experienced my first upswing/downswing!!!

Cdsnuts
08-11-2017, 02:30 PM
Guys weird thing happened a few days ago...

I was whistling/singing along to music without making a conscious effort to connect to the music!
It was a sweet relief to have that natural connection to music/emotion.

The next day I got strong tinnitus again and a headache that finally subsided today.
I also don't feel much connection to music like the other day.
Still have the tinnitus but I know this will pass.

I think I just experienced my first upswing/downswing!!!

This is how it starts. Small, seemingly insignificant things to most people, but to PFSers, they notice these things right away after being starved from them for so long. It's just a quick blip on your radar, and then it's gone. Next time, it's going to be a bit more significant and last a bit longer. You're going to have these ups and downs, back on forths for the duration of the healing process. Now that it's started, it will continue to do so with increasing intensity as long as you stay the course.

You're making forward progress. Congrats. It's something you should be proud of. You made it happen. You can take it all the way now. You know what needs to be done.

Hulk Smash
08-14-2017, 12:05 AM
Question about herbs and amino acids:

I see that lost empire now carries a cordyceps blend and cordyceps militaris.
Anyone tried out the blend yet? Is it better to get the blend or stick to cordyceps militaris?

Also, I was thinking about the muscle wastage and want to improve protein synthesis and cellular muscle function.
I figure a good amino acid complex will aid me to get my muscle function to its base level again.

Any suggestions for a quality amino acid complex?

Cdsnuts
08-14-2017, 04:02 PM
Question about herbs and amino acids:

I see that lost empire now carries a cordyceps blend and cordyceps militaris.
Anyone tried out the blend yet? Is it better to get the blend or stick to cordyceps militaris?

Also, I was thinking about the muscle wastage and want to improve protein synthesis and cellular muscle function.
I figure a good amino acid complex will aid me to get my muscle function to its base level again.

Any suggestions for a quality amino acid complex?

The cordyceps militaris is just a higher quality product. You'll get more for you mileage with the blend, but more of a punch with the militaris.

I also think you should give this product a try concerning your muscle wastage: http://amzn.to/2vyryng It's a myostatin inhibitor and I use it on and off when I'm not cycling. The effects are fantastic. I would also add in this: http://amzn.to/2uWcOLu. It's hands down the best creatine I've ever used.

Between these two products together along with the herb cycling you should be able to pack on the muscle sooner then later. They are one powerful combination.

Durantia37
08-17-2017, 07:24 PM
The cordyceps militaris is just a higher quality product. You'll get more for you mileage with the blend, but more of a punch with the militaris.

I also think you should give this product a try concerning your muscle wastage: http://amzn.to/2vyryng It's a myostatin inhibitor and I use it on and off when I'm not cycling. The effects are fantastic. I would also add in this: http://amzn.to/2uWcOLu. It's hands down the best creatine I've ever used.

Between these two products together along with the herb cycling you should be able to pack on the muscle sooner then later. They are one powerful combination.

So are you not a fan of BCAAs, CD?

Hulk Smash
08-18-2017, 04:22 PM
Information on the benefits of BCAA. Very beneficial for us imo.

BCAA: 11 Benefits ✔ + Recommended Dosages ✔ + 15 Clinical Studies ✔ (http://aminoacidstudies.org/bcaa/)

Some of us may have been depleted of bcaa or have an absorption problem
during the crash period; leading to muscle wastage.
Its also possible that myostatin was up-regulated(not sure about this though).

I'm waiting on my order of BCAA!!! I'll be taking a bit more than the suggested serving until I recover.
I'll order the myostatin inhibitor someday in the near future when I get more $$$

Heres a link about myostatin inhibition in dogs
Will I look like this CD???

Genetically modified dogs: Chinese scientists use CRISPR to create muscly freaks - TomoNews - YouTube (https://youtu.be/2KhhvwEhDSI)

Cdsnuts
08-18-2017, 04:44 PM
So are you not a fan of BCAAs, CD?No they are definitely a good addition to any muscle building program. Why would you assume that?

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Cdsnuts
08-18-2017, 04:45 PM
Information on the benefits of BCAA. Very beneficial for us imo.

BCAA: 11 Benefits ✔ + Recommended Dosages ✔ + 15 Clinical Studies ✔ (http://aminoacidstudies.org/bcaa/)

Some of us may have been depleted of bcaa or have an absorption problem
during the crash period; leading to muscle wastage.
Its also possible that myostatin was up-regulated(not sure about this though).

I'm waiting on my order of BCAA!!! I'll be taking a bit more than the suggested serving until I recover.
I'll order the myostatin inhibitor someday in the near future when I get more $$$

Heres a link about myostatin inhibition in dogs
Will I look like this CD???

Genetically modified dogs: Chinese scientists use CRISPR to create muscly freaks - TomoNews - YouTube (https://youtu.be/2KhhvwEhDSI)In dogs? Lol

You're going to get much more mileage with a myostatin inhibitor than you would with BCAAs

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Durantia37
08-18-2017, 06:32 PM
No they are definitely a good addition to any muscle building program. Why would you assume that?

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I've just never heard you mention them, and a few posts up Hulk asked about them and you recommended something else.

But that's good news, I'm always happy to add a new tool to the arsenal.

Meegs
08-18-2017, 07:56 PM
I'm not sure if a BCAA supplement is much different, but I use Collagen Peptides, which contain these amino acids and others. I've been using this for probably the last 12 months or so:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K6JUG4K?aaxitk=fW9u7i39.SNZrVkY-8dqMA&th=1

Holistic
08-19-2017, 02:47 AM
In dogs? Lol


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Wtf!

Hulk Smash
08-28-2017, 07:46 AM
Some news on hormones and other things...

Flame retardant harm: Chemicals in yoga mats might make women infertile, study shows - TomoNews - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XWqJPzmmYH4)

Hulk Smash
08-30-2017, 08:55 AM
Recently added the following to my arsenal:

Amino acids for enhanced muscle function and composition etc...

vitamin E/C oil
organic Shea butter
(trying to keep the wrinkles to a minimum by using these topically until I recover)

Cordyceps
Black Maca

Any advice on how to make taking cordyceps not such a nauseating experience?

By far this is the worst tasting herb I've tried. The others are bitter but I quickly drink them with water and it's over with.

The Cordyceps taste stays there a bit too long though...and is fishy???

Any tips???

Maxout777
08-30-2017, 08:57 AM
Recently added the following to my arsenal:

Amino acids for enhanced muscle function and composition etc...

vitamin E/C oil
organic Shea butter
(trying to keep the wrinkles to a minimum by using these topically until I recover)

Cordyceps
Black Maca

Any advice on how to make taking cordyceps not such a nauseating experience?

By far this is the worst tasting herb I've tried. The others are bitter but I quickly drink them with water and it's over with.

The Cordyceps taste stays there a bit too long though...and is fishy???

Any tips???Mix cordyceps into coffee, I've done that before.

Cdsnuts
08-30-2017, 09:15 AM
Wow. I actually like the taste of cordyceps

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Hulk Smash
08-30-2017, 11:27 AM
Wow. I actually like the taste of cordyceps

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I don't know why cordyceps is the most difficult taste wise. Maybe it'll grow on me.
Its does have a fish taste though right? Or is it just me?

Durantia37
08-30-2017, 02:38 PM
I don't know why cordyceps is the most difficult taste wise. Maybe it'll grow on me.
Its does have a fish taste though right? Or is it just me?

I don't know that I've noticed a fish taste. It has kind of a spicy, earthy taste to me. And, like CD said, it's definitely one of the better tasting ones imo.

K8668B
08-30-2017, 06:05 PM
The taste of some the herbs could be considered "foul" i suppose, but i personally dont find it to be that bad. cordyceps tastes good to me actually. cistanche and tongkat ali also seem to be two of the ones that people say tastes bad, but i actually like the taste of those too. the only one i could say has a "different" taste to it in my opinion would be shilijit. but it doesnt effect or bother me, and i really could care less about the taste. i dont give a shit about taste in general anymore. anything i choose to put in my body is either for fuel, or something that will do something positive for my system.

Durantia37
08-30-2017, 08:43 PM
The taste of some the herbs could be considered "foul" i suppose, but i personally dont find it to be that bad. cordyceps tastes good to me actually. cistanche and tongkat ali also seem to be two of the ones that people say tastes bad, but i actually like the taste of those too. the only one i could say has a "different" taste to it in my opinion would be shilijit. but it doesnt effect or bother me, and i really could care less about the taste. i dont give a shit about taste in general anymore. anything i choose to put in my body is either for fuel, or something that will do something positive for my system.

Cistanche has made me almost throw up twice. That and Rhodiola are the two worst to me.

Cdsnuts
08-31-2017, 07:00 AM
Cistanche has made me almost throw up twice. That and Rhodiola are the two worst to me.

Cistanche I don't mind...it's salty. But Rhodiola.....oh man. Definitely one of the worst.

Maxout777
08-31-2017, 08:39 PM
Cistanche I don't mind...it's salty. But Rhodiola.....oh man. Definitely one of the worst.

THE worst. Besides shilajit powder......will never go away from resin/pitch ever again.

Snell1234
08-31-2017, 08:42 PM
I honestly had no issues at all with the taste of any of them. I was scarred when as a kid my mum used to boil these chinese herbs for my asthma which were 1,000,000 times worse than the worst of any of these herbs. Maybe that experience has meant nothing ever tastes bad to me.

Hulk Smash
09-06-2017, 11:10 AM
Struggling a bit more than usual here at the gym today. My hands are weak and have pain when pressure is applied or strength is exerted.

Still I'm here pushing through and holding onto these weights with the little ability to grip I have left.

I WILL conquer this!

Cdsnuts
09-06-2017, 06:00 PM
Struggling a bit more than usual here at the gym today. My hands are weak and have pain when pressure is applied or strength is exerted.

Still I'm here pushing through and holding onto these weights with the little ability to grip I have left.

I WILL conquer this!

Yes...you will. Sooner or later it will be vanquished. It doesn't have a choice in the matter.

Hulk Smash
09-08-2017, 08:04 PM
UPDATE:

Looks like I'll have to take an extended break of at least 3 months to give time for my hands/wrists to heal.

I have moderate to severe carpal tunnel which may or a not be contributing to the pain and lack of strength in my hands and fingers. One potential cause is hormonal imbalance. Just my luck lol.

My hope is that I don't have too much nerve damage as this may be permanent.

I'll stick to leg workouts and cardio for the time being. What really sucks is I was looking forward to stopping the lines in my arms from progressing by building muscle, now I have another forced break. First my leg and now this.

WTH?!?!?!

I just hope this long break is enough and I won't need surgeries so I can come out on top of this with full strength and use of my hands/wrists.

Like I said I'll keep fighting this by focusing on legs, abs and cardio.
Never giving up!

CannonBalls
09-08-2017, 09:01 PM
UPDATE:

Looks like I'll have to take an extended break of at least 3 months to give time for my hands/wrists to heal.

I have moderate to severe carpal tunnel which may or a not be contributing to the pain and lack of strength in my hands and fingers. One potential cause is hormonal imbalance. Just my luck lol.

My hope is that I don't have too much nerve damage as this may be permanent.

I'll stick to leg workouts and cardio for the time being. What really sucks is I was looking forward to stopping the lines in my arms from progressing by building muscle, now I have another forced break. First my leg and now this.

WTH?!?!?!

I just hope this long break is enough and I won't need surgeries so I can come out on top of this with full strength and use of my hands/wrists.

Like I said I'll keep fighting this by focusing on legs, abs and cardio.
Never giving up!

You're not the only one Hulk! I'm going through some injuries as to where I haven't been able to do any pulling exercises for a month. It sucks, but like you mentioned above, just focus on other exercises until you're good to go.

Also, do that mobility work! It's time consuming but so worth it. I've learned that as I get older if no mobility and stretching is done I end up creating another injury for myself.

Hang in there!

Cdsnuts
09-09-2017, 05:48 AM
You're not the only one Hulk! I'm going through some injuries as to where I haven't been able to do any pulling exercises for a month. It sucks, but like you mentioned above, just focus on other exercises until you're good to go.

Also, do that mobility work! It's time consuming but so worth it. I've learned that as I get older if no mobility and stretching is done I end up creating another injury for myself.

Hang in there!

While being strong is beneficial, being strong without being supple is a recipe for disaster as we age.

CannonBalls
09-09-2017, 10:45 AM
While being strong is beneficial, being strong without being supple is a recipe for disaster as we age.

Ah, a supple leopard, perhaps?

Holistic
09-10-2017, 08:01 AM
UPDATE:

Looks like I'll have to take an extended break of at least 3 months to give time for my hands/wrists to heal.

I have moderate to severe carpal tunnel which may or a not be contributing to the pain and lack of strength in my hands and fingers. One potential cause is hormonal imbalance. Just my luck lol.

My hope is that I don't have too much nerve damage as this may be permanent.

I'll stick to leg workouts and cardio for the time being. What really sucks is I was looking forward to stopping the lines in my arms from progressing by building muscle, now I have another forced break. First my leg and now this.

WTH?!?!?!

I just hope this long break is enough and I won't need surgeries so I can come out on top of this with full strength and use of my hands/wrists.

Like I said I'll keep fighting this by focusing on legs, abs and cardio.
Never giving up!

You can find a pool nearby and start swimming.

Hulk Smash
09-15-2017, 03:23 PM
I'm learning that it's VERY important to listen to the body. I remember my wrists feeling a bit weird a few months after taking fin. But carpal tunnel wasn't a side effect mentioned. It's B.S.

Hopefully my thread will help someone avoid this or at least make the right changes early on.

I think I'm gonna lose it guys. I don't want to sound negative but I know I do.
My hands/wrists are fkd right now.
I can barely carry my groceries anymore.

I'm really trying but....

K8668B
09-15-2017, 04:34 PM
Just get back on the wagon. Rest, heal, and then get back to doing what you do. Ive dealt with the flu, natural disasters, and many other random bullshit things as ive mentioned in my blog. its not going to set you back. cdsnuts once told me that at this point, the only thing you could do to set yourself back is to take another 5ar inhibitor. Just keep going man. Youre not losing any progress. If you have to take a rest, then just try to eat protocol style or as close to it as you can, and do what you can. In the end youre gonna be fine!

jacknap
09-15-2017, 04:59 PM
yo bro keep your chin up.

finally starting my water fast, I was fearful I was being propped up with herbs and supplements. Truth is, the baseline improvements I made are hear to stay :)

it's just a slight delay before weight training again, you can still do 90% of the rest of the protocol. Cold showers might accelerate healing and you can you HIIT and things that don't evolve arms and hands like jump body squats. there's probably like 20 good ones if you research and add to your routine.

Cdsnuts
09-18-2017, 08:50 AM
Like Jacknap had mentioned, training the posterior chain is LOADED with benefits hormonal and otherwise and it's usually something that is VERY under trained in most people, myself included. Now that summer is over and the need to have the beach body is diminished, Im focusing alot of energy on this portion of my training. it is literally the powerhouse of your whole muscular system.

You can train it in one way or another almost daily without burning out.

K8668B
09-18-2017, 09:54 AM
Like Jacknap had mentioned, training the posterior chain is LOADED with benefits hormonal and otherwise and it's usually something that is VERY under trained in most people, myself included. Now that summer is over and the need to have the beach body is diminished, Im focusing alot of energy on this portion of my training. it is literally the powerhouse of your whole muscular system.

You can train it in one way or another almost daily without burning out.

Dude! That is so true. I inadvertently found this out years ago. And certain posterior chain exercises, like the hip abductor machine, and a few others, yes you can literally do almost everyday without burning yourself out. Heavy squats obviously would not be wise to do everyday or close to that, as that would be overkill. you feel the positive hormonal affects immediately afterwards, and as youre walking out of the gym. And you would develop your posterior chain, and start getting more attention from women. ;)

Cdsnuts
09-18-2017, 11:47 AM
Dude! That is so true. I inadvertently found this out years ago. And certain posterior chain exercises, like the hip abductor machine, and a few others, yes you can literally do almost everyday without burning yourself out. Heavy squats obviously would not be wise to do everyday or close to that, as that would be overkill. you feel the positive hormonal affects immediately afterwards, and as youre walking out of the gym. And you would develop your posterior chain, and start getting more attention from women. ;)

It's not all about heavy movement here either. Even simply body weight movements can be done to ensure you're firing those muscles correctly and are hugely beneficial. For someone like me who sits all damn day, these things are lifesavers. I've added them in as warm ups on EVERY lifting day. I'm already noticing a difference in the way my low back feels. That, along with simply hip flexor stretches are making a world of difference.

jacknap
09-18-2017, 12:24 PM
It's not all about heavy movement here either. Even simply body weight movements can be done to ensure you're firing those muscles correctly and are hugely beneficial. For someone like me who sits all damn day, these things are lifesavers. I've added them in as warm ups on EVERY lifting day. I'm already noticing a difference in the way my low back feels. That, along with simply hip flexor stretches are making a world of difference.

if I could afford it, I'd get a walking treadmill desk. apparently it improves cognitive ability to whilst working. and you get the blood flow.
if I ever get my money situation right I would love to get one. Tai Lopez does this

Swill
09-18-2017, 12:50 PM
It's not all about heavy movement here either. Even simply body weight movements can be done to ensure you're firing those muscles correctly and are hugely beneficial. For someone like me who sits all damn day, these things are lifesavers. I've added them in as warm ups on EVERY lifting day. I'm already noticing a difference in the way my low back feels. That, along with simply hip flexor stretches are making a world of difference.

Not meaning to hijack here, but Wondering if you'd care to share your routine in that regard CD?

As you know, I've had my share of lower back issues and bulged a disc in soccer a couple weeks back again when I thought I was out the woods with it. Any tips gratefully received :-)


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Cdsnuts
09-18-2017, 01:08 PM
Not meaning to hijack here, but Wondering if you'd care to share your routine in that regard CD?

As you know, I've had my share of lower back issues and bulged a disc in soccer a couple weeks back again when I thought I was out the woods with it. Any tips gratefully received :-)


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Pm'ed you.

Maxout777
09-18-2017, 03:18 PM
I've always warmed up with hip adductor and abductor stretches on the machines, pretty much every day. Big fan.

Cdsnuts
09-19-2017, 02:45 PM
I've always warmed up with hip adductor and abductor stretches on the machines, pretty much every day. Big fan.

For me, it's more the hip flexor, not so much the abductors. I sit too damn much and as a result, it's become very short and tight. So much so that it's pulling on my pelvis giving me a nasty anterior tilt. This is causing low issues.

**Sorry for crashing your thread Hulk.**

Hulk Smash
11-05-2017, 06:43 AM
UPDATE:

I think my mental state and mood are still improving.

Physically I'm still in a bind though. However my case is different as I've been limited in exercise due to carpal tunnel.
The fact that mental/emotional state is steadily improving is somewhat keeping me going.

CD are there any herbs on the list that are specifically good for inflammation?

jacknap
11-05-2017, 10:05 AM
what caused the issues for you do you know?

I think for inflammation avoiding gluten / cleanse / greens are the big things that lower inflamattion in the protocol.

As much as the cleanse sucks maybe doing another one could help you? Loren Lockman was saying how he had a nerve injury and a fast helped him recover something that doctors said would be permanent.

Cdsnuts
11-06-2017, 03:38 PM
UPDATE:

I think my mental state and mood are still improving.

Physically I'm still in a bind though. However my case is different as I've been limited in exercise due to carpal tunnel.
The fact that mental/emotional state is steadily improving is somewhat keeping me going.

CD are there any herbs on the list that are specifically good for inflammation?

Many of them are actually good for inflammation due to their chemical make up and mineral qualities. But really, it's the diet and supplements you use daily that keeps it down the best. Be sure you're avoiding dietary allergens as mentioned.

Are you taking chlorella or spirulina?

Hulk Smash
11-07-2017, 07:33 AM
Many of them are actually good for inflammation due to their chemical make up and mineral qualities. But really, it's the diet and supplements you use daily that keeps it down the best. Be sure you're avoiding dietary allergens as mentioned.

Are you taking chlorella or spirulina?

I'm not taking those, I'll add them in asap. Thanks!

Cdsnuts
11-07-2017, 09:39 AM
I'm not taking those, I'll add them in asap. Thanks!Use the link on my site for the brand that I prefer

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Hulk Smash
11-23-2017, 06:28 PM
Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!

Hulk Smash
12-03-2017, 03:24 PM
I found this today when looking for ways to reverse my carpal tunnel. Seems like vitamins B6 and B2 may be all I need!
Here is the link in case anyone else wants to read up on it.

Cure Carpal Tunnel Without Surgery Fetterman Crutches (https://fetterman-crutches.com/blogs/news/cure-carpal-tunnel-without-surgery)

rmoore
12-04-2017, 12:49 PM
Ever since I got my diet in check since 10 months ago. I feel so much better. My diet consist also of Milk, Cheese, OJ, Cane Sugar, Fruit, Haagen dasz Vanilla Ice Cream, Lots of Collagen protein, Coffee, Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, some chicken and beef, potatoes and sweet potatoes, shrimp and 1 tsp salt daily. I think this and the herbs are a way of life now.

Cdsnuts
12-06-2017, 05:52 PM
Ever since I got my diet in check since 10 months ago. I feel so much better. My diet consist also of Milk, Cheese, OJ, Cane Sugar, Fruit, Haagen dasz Vanilla Ice Cream, Lots of Collagen protein, Coffee, Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, some chicken and beef, potatoes and sweet potatoes, shrimp and 1 tsp salt daily. I think this and the herbs are a way of life now.

There is a reason diet is one of the most important cornerstones in the recovery process. You are experiencing this first hand.

Reading this post made me hungry, btw. Now I want Haagen Dasz ice cream.....lol.

Hulk Smash
12-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Carpal tunnel pain,tingling and numbness has subsided a very small amount but it's enough for me to notice. Seems like the B vitamins are working. Which adds to the mystery. I guess my body somehow depleted itself of B vitamin stores?

May take about 3 months for full carpal recovery according to a site I read.

I haven't been sticking to all the herbs as much as I should have, I'm sure they have more than enough B vitamin to help me.

This definitely validates what CD says.
Stick to the protocol and over TIME we will heal.

I'll be all in when my hands heal a bit more!

Hulk Smash
12-26-2017, 05:25 PM
Hope everyone had a great Christmas!

I'm still responding to the B vitamins well. I estimate another few weeks before I have serious progress in regards to the health of my hands and wrists.

Just wondering though if anyone noticed less bone mass in the wrist, knuckles, ankles area???

I hope the recovered/recovering guys can weigh in on this, and does this improve?

My primary reason for asking this is to make unique adjustments to the protocol or add something new in (if needed) so that I may improve. Therefore any feedback is much appreciated.

jacknap
12-26-2017, 07:08 PM
I didn't notice this but I think English had this in his feet and hands and he said at least after everything else restored that it remained for him. Might have come back for him too now tho

Hulk Smash
12-27-2017, 12:21 PM
I didn't notice this but I think English had this in his feet and hands and he said at least after everything else restored that it remained for him. Might have come back for him too now tho

I thought at least his hands recovered but I'm not sure if that was recovery from pain or bone-loss or both.
I'll have to search through the threads.

It'd be great to get my bone mass back man. I'm about 6 ft. so having skinny wrists, small hands and ankles is noticeable smh. Not sure if its a metabolism or methylation issue that caused this for English and I.

I know testosterone plays a role in bone density according to studies but, this goes beyond that imo.
It'd be nice if English could jump on here just to update me on this question.

Anyone else with any experience or thoughts in this?

jacknap
12-27-2017, 01:39 PM
I think you will get it back. I think even women who dose on test see increased bone mass.

I think I might have lost some bone mass on my face but I'm not sure if it's just hidden underneath the puffiness lol. Cuz it looked pretty normal when I was fasting

Hulk Smash
01-10-2018, 02:03 AM
Just throwing this on here too, in case some miss the other thread:

There is a TRT study I found of cardiac transplant patients who suffered bone loss after the transplant.
Apparently, the transplant throws patients into hypogonadism and thus they suffer bone loss.

They were supplemented with IBN and TRT some both, some only one of the two. The most significant bone increase was in men given TRT. Keep in mind most of these men are probably much older than us and yet they regenerated bone mass.
Remember this is AFTER 5 YEARS of treatment.

Stay positive and don't lose hope. And most importantly, get on the regimen and remember "TIME & CONSISTENCY = RESULTS!" - CD

Testosterone replacement has a substantial benefit on bone mass, fracture incidence, libido, and sexual activities in male cardiac transplant patients: a 5-year randomized prospective controlled trial


Here is another study with similar findings:

http://www.renalandurologynews.com/h...rticle/639492/

Hulk Smash
01-11-2018, 02:08 AM
News about pain killers and male fertility:

Infertility in men: Painkillers are wiping out the sperm count, study suggests - TomoNews - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ffwdtjTAA10)

Cdsnuts
01-13-2018, 06:47 PM
Just throwing this on here too, in case some miss the other thread:

There is a TRT study I found of cardiac transplant patients who suffered bone loss after the transplant.
Apparently, the transplant throws patients into hypogonadism and thus they suffer bone loss.

They were supplemented with IBN and TRT some both, some only one of the two. The most significant bone increase was in men given TRT. Keep in mind most of these men are probably much older than us and yet they regenerated bone mass.
Remember this is AFTER 5 YEARS of treatment.

Stay positive and don't lose hope. And most importantly, get on the regimen and remember "TIME & CONSISTENCY = RESULTS!" - CD

Testosterone replacement has a substantial benefit on bone mass, fracture incidence, libido, and sexual activities in male cardiac transplant patients: a 5-year randomized prospective controlled trial


Here is another study with similar findings:

http://www.renalandurologynews.com/h...rticle/639492/

I'm wondering if it's the anti-rejection drugs that cause this rather then the transplant itself?

- - - Updated - - -


News about pain killers and male fertility:

Infertility in men: Painkillers are wiping out the sperm count, study suggests - TomoNews - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ffwdtjTAA10)

I didn't read the link, but all opiate based painkillers are libido killers, kratom included. They ALL destroy testosterone levels.

Hulk Smash
01-16-2018, 06:43 AM
PROGRESS UPDATE:

As you guys know, my hands and wrists were in such bad shape. I even dropped the regimen for at least the past 4 months. I just couldn't even shake any ones hand without feeling like my hand was being crushed. I couldn't even carry one bag of groceries anymore and I was that guy that would leave the market carrying like 50-60 pounds of groceries in each hand for 1/2 a mile without stopping to rest. Thats like 7 full bags each hand.


I finally made my return to the gym last week. It was only one day that I managed to get in because I could barely move my arms for the next 4 days due to VERY sore arm muscles, tendons and ligaments. My hands/wrists were still somewhat weak and painful but were in good enough shape to get some sets in. I wanted to post, but held off because I had to be sure my hands/wrists weren't going to totally fall apart again.

Guess what???

I made it to the gym today and I managed to not only do barbell curls but also bench press again!!!
My hands and wrists are no where near recovered BUT, the pain, fragility has subsided just enough that I'm able to hit the regimen 110% again!!!

Just need to patiently up my overall levels and I should see and feel my hands/wrists go back to normal, right CD?

HULK IS BACK!!!

Cdsnuts
01-16-2018, 07:15 AM
PROGRESS UPDATE:

As you guys know, my hands and wrists were in such bad shape. I even dropped the regimen for at least the past 4 months. I just couldn't even shake any ones hand without feeling like my hand was being crushed. I couldn't even carry one bag of groceries anymore and I was that guy that would leave the market carrying like 50-60 pounds of groceries in each hand for 1/2 a mile without stopping to rest. Thats like 7 full bags each hand.


I finally made my return to the gym last week. It was only one day that I managed to get in because I could barely move my arms for the next 4 days due to VERY sore arm muscles, tendons and ligaments. My hands/wrists were still somewhat weak and painful but were in good enough shape to get some sets in. I wanted to post, but held off because I had to be sure my hands/wrists weren't going to totally fall apart again.

Guess what???

I made it to the gym today and I managed to not only do barbell curls but also bench press again!!!
My hands and wrists are no where near recovered BUT, the pain, fragility has subsided just enough that I'm able to hit the regimen 110% again!!!

Just need to patiently up my overall levels and I should see and feel my hands/wrists go back to normal, right CD?

HULK IS BACK!!!

Yes....But...you said you took a break from the regimen for four months?

My only concern is that if you weren't bolstering your hormone levels, which would naturally aid in the recovery of your muscles, tendons, etc. it MAY be a little touch and go.

Get back on 100% and GO SLOW.

You gotta build them things back up.

jacknap
01-16-2018, 12:23 PM
by not doing the regimen you're just referring to the weigh elements of it right?

u could have still sprinted which is quite great.

what caused the hand issues for u?

Hulk Smash
01-17-2018, 05:46 AM
by not doing the regimen you're just referring to the weigh elements of it right?

u could have still sprinted which is quite great.

what caused the hand issues for u?

I thought of doing sprints and leg routines, but I was in a bad state mentally/emotionally due to my hand/wrist wastage.
I wasn't depressed but I had no motivation left to do anything of the regimen. It was stupid on my part though because my hands/wrists might be close to recovery by now. This past year sucked man. It started with not being able to play guitar like I always did, to struggling to carry a gallon of milk, to being in pain from a shaking hands, to using one of those air dryers in the public restroom and seeing the skin of my hands be pushed around from the air pressure.

I know it sounds like an exaggeration, but its not. I have the same wastage in other areas too but no pain fortunately.
I haven't heard of this happening to anyone else except for CHI if my memory is correct.

The hand/wrist issues are symptoms of PFS. That I'm certain of, as my constitution, strength and build was full and healthy before. From what I've read, it seems like having low TEST and low HGH causes this. They are essential for maintaining muscle and bone density in life. I'm guessing there may also be a metabolic issue tied in with what is causing this.

It'd be nice to have the peace of mind in knowing someone else went through this and reversed the wastage.

Meegs
01-18-2018, 04:55 PM
Hi Hulk- Not an exaggeration at all. Many people with PFS, including myself, have similar stories. In general people with PFS, seem to think the only symptoms that PFS causes are the symptoms that they have. It has always been really strange to me. But I guess like anything in life, you can only relate to what you know and have experience with.

Any way, I also have wastage in my forearms, wrists, and hands. I know without a doubt some is muscle wastage, but I think I also have lost fat or something else in these areas. My veins are really prominent (not in a good way) and I can easily see all the bones and tendons in my hands move through my skin. When I look at my forearms with my palms up, I can literally see a line where on 1 side I have muscle and on the other side nothing. Picture it like a little ledge. I also had to get my wedding ring resized, as my fingers got smaller.

Like you, I also had soreness/weakness in my hands and wrists. I too noticed it when I would carry grocery bags, amongst other things. Thankfully, I no longer experience pain. I have recently incorporated weighted exercises designed specifically for hands, wrists, and forearms. There are days where it looks like my forearm muscles are filing back in where I initially lost it. I have a couple of freckles on my forearms that I use as a gauge where my "muscle line" is at. Sometimes it looks like it may creeping past the freckles. LOL- sounds funny when I read that back as far as my measuring technique is concerned, but I am serious. I haven't conquered it yet, but with the improvements that I have made thus far, I believe that this wastage issue can resolve.

Take care man.

Cdsnuts
01-18-2018, 06:11 PM
Hi Hulk- Not an exaggeration at all. Many people with PFS, including myself, have similar stories. In general people with PFS, seem to think the only symptoms that PFS causes are the symptoms that they have. It has always been really strange to me. But I guess like anything in life, you can only relate to what you know and have experience with.

Any way, I also have wastage in my forearms, wrists, and hands. I know without a doubt some is muscle wastage, but I think I also have lost fat or something else in these areas. My veins are really prominent (not in a good way) and I can easily see all the bones and tendons in my hands move through my skin. When I look at my forearms with my palms up, I can literally see a line where on 1 side I have muscle and on the other side nothing. Picture it like a little ledge. I also had to get my wedding ring resized, as my fingers got smaller.

Like you, I also had soreness/weakness in my hands and wrists. I too noticed it when I would carry grocery bags, amongst other things. Thankfully, I no longer experience pain. I have recently incorporated weighted exercises designed specifically for hands, wrists, and forearms. There are days where it looks like my forearm muscles are filing back in where I initially lost it. I have a couple of freckles on my forearms that I use as a gauge where my "muscle line" is at. Sometimes it looks like it may creeping past the freckles. LOL- sounds funny when I read that back as far as my measuring technique is concerned, but I am serious. I haven't conquered it yet, but with the improvements that I have made thus far, I believe that this wastage issue can resolve.

Take care man.

They most certainly can be.

basementdweller
01-18-2018, 07:34 PM
dude, my legs and hips suffered so much muscle loss/weakness that I actually bought a cane a month ago

Yesterday I did 8 sets of squats, today I was working on my feet all day without issue. I'm getting stronger every day

this shit isn't permanent

Hulk Smash
01-22-2018, 11:02 AM
dude, my legs and hips suffered so much muscle loss/weakness that I actually bought a cane a month ago

Yesterday I did 8 sets of squats, today I was working on my feet all day without issue. I'm getting stronger every day

this shit isn't permanent

Same thing happened to me sometime ago. I think its in my posts. Fortunately it improved, as it did in your case.
These are most likely symptoms of lower TEST/HGH levels.
Anyway, we're getting better and thats what matters most!

- - - Updated - - -

UPDATE:

My hands/wrists are feeling more stable as time has passed. Went to the gym again yesterday and felt even less discomfort than my last workout!

Cdsnuts
01-23-2018, 09:22 AM
Same thing happened to me sometime ago. I think its in my posts. Fortunately it improved, as it did in your case.
These are most likely symptoms of lower TEST/HGH levels.
Anyway, we're getting better and thats what matters most!

- - - Updated - - -

UPDATE:

My hands/wrists are feeling more stable as time has passed. Went to the gym again yesterday and felt even less discomfort than my last workout!

Slow and steady man.....

Hulk Smash
01-25-2018, 05:18 AM
I'm sorry CD, I don't think I can do this anymore. My body has broken apart too much man. FUCK.
I don't know what I'm doing anymore. No one can help me get better and even if I do, my bones are so far gone that I doubt this is some normal PFS thing. I'd probably have to be on HGH or some shit for the rest of my life. I can't live like that.
My fiance is gone too, and I let her go because why should she be with a guy whos body is breaking down a little at a time?

You're a cool guy man. Maxout and English say they've recovered and so do you but...I can tell this isn't some normal sickness.
My hands can't fill back in CD, I have excess skin there because of losing bone. I'm slowly looking like an old shrunken man.

CD, I'm sorry man. I don't need to have a picture painted for me that I'll daydream about escaping to. I'm accepting this is my reality.
I just fkd up one day and I can't go back. I'm not expecting a reply or for you to tell me anything.

Thank you for helping me like you did man, you have a good heart and you're here for all these guys. I know there are limitations to recovery, I haven't even seen a single picture of people showing before and after so its hard to believe.

I hope you're all around to see Merk burn to the ground. Until then keep going foward you guys.

wishing I could be myself again,

Hulk Smash

Hulk Smash
01-25-2018, 11:46 AM
I'm sorry CD, I don't think I can do this anymore. My body has broken apart too much man. FUCK.
I don't know what I'm doing anymore. No one can help me get better and even if I do, my bones are so far gone that I doubt this is some normal PFS thing. I'd probably have to be on HGH or some shit for the rest of my life. I can't live like that.
My fiance is gone too, and I let her go because why should she be with a guy whos body is breaking down a little at a time?

You're a cool guy man. Maxout and English say they've recovered and so do you but...I can tell this isn't some normal sickness.
My hands can't fill back in CD, I have excess skin there because of losing bone. I'm slowly looking like an old shrunken man.

CD, I'm sorry man. I don't need to have a picture painted for me that I'll daydream about escaping to. I'm accepting this is my reality.
I just fkd up one day and I can't go back. I'm not expecting a reply or for you to tell me anything.

Thank you for helping me like you did man, you have a good heart and you're here for all these guys. I know there are limitations to recovery, I haven't even seen a single picture of people showing before and after so its hard to believe.

I hope you're all around to see Merk burn to the ground. Until then keep going foward you guys.

wishing I could be myself again,

Hulk Smash

Hey guys,

I just want to apologize for that post. It's not the energy of this place and neither do I want it to be. I'm just not doing well lately especially with the bone issue which is probably the most painful thing and noticeable of this entire mess. I'll admit it's taken me to a dark place I never thought I'd be in again.

I won't vent anything again on here.
I apologize to CD and all of you guys.
Hope you all recover 100%

Best,

Hulk Smash

Damn
01-25-2018, 12:49 PM
Hey guys,

I just want to apologize for that post. It's not the energy of this place and neither do I want it to be. I'm just not doing well lately especially with the bone issue which is probably the most painful thing and noticeable of this entire mess. I'll admit it's taken me to a dark place I never thought I'd be in again.

I won't vent anything again on here.
I apologize to CD and all of you guys.
Hope you all recover 100%

Best,

Hulk Smash

Hulk, I'm new to the forum, but not to this shit. I crashed around the same time you did in fall 2016. I too had bone loss in my wrist and hands. I also had (and still have to some degree) pain and numbness in my lower arms, hands and wrists. I've been recovering steadily (still have a ways to go) and can say with confidence that my hands and wrists have improved significantly (and I'm frikin' 51 years old!). If you stick with it you will be whole again and will feel like the biggest swinging dick around for having overcome a challenge very few people would ever have the balls to. Feel free to PM me if you need/want to talk about the wrist/hand stuff or anything else man.

K8668B
01-25-2018, 12:56 PM
Hulk, you gotta hang in there bro. I believe in you man. PM me if you need to .

jacknap
01-25-2018, 01:48 PM
stick with the regimine whether you believe or not bro. the time will pass anyways and you don't want to have the regret 2 years later of 'wish i tried my best'.

I stuck with the regimine even when I didn't really believe in the beggining and guess what I'm almost completely back to normal. I had weird shit happen to me that no one else had with PFS either like painful convulsions. Thought I had a fucking stroke.

zardoz
01-25-2018, 02:01 PM
Hey Hulk,

I'm going through my own crisis about some of this physical crap but I try to take a simple mentality.

Stick to the protocol and you might not get better.
Stop the protocol and you DEFINITELY won't get better.

Get back on the wagon. Keep fighting. Don't ever wonder if there was more you could of done.

Hulk Smash
01-26-2018, 12:54 PM
Guys, thanks for the moral support!

UPDATE:

I lost about 10 pounds of fat in the past 3 weeks!
Since I jumped back on board with this 100%, the fat has been melting off pretty fast. I've only gone to the gym about twice a week so far. Yes my doubts are there about a certain thing but I still have to admit the results I am getting.

basementdweller
01-26-2018, 03:21 PM
Good to hear man, keep it going.

As far as doubts go, I battled chronic fatigue syndrome for 9 years before this happened to me. I got sucked into the doom and gloom stories for awhile and well, I never returned to any CFS forums to tell everyone how well I was doing. With a bit of discipline, some symptoms cleared up the first couple months/years and some lingered on, but life got good again. There's a lot of similarities between the two illnesses, I truly believe that PFS will be a similar story for me (and everyone else here).

Cdsnuts
01-26-2018, 06:38 PM
Guys, thanks for the moral support!

UPDATE:

I lost about 10 pounds of fat in the past 3 weeks!
Since I jumped back on board with this 100%, the fat has been melting off pretty fast. I've only gone to the gym about twice a week so far. Yes my doubts are there about a certain thing but I still have to admit the results I am getting.

Listen...put all your doubts aside and do this 100% for the next six months....ALL OF IT. Come back and tell us how you feel then. ALL OF IT bro....the next six months straight.....100%

xxLUK
01-27-2018, 05:52 AM
Guys, thanks for the moral support!

UPDATE:

I lost about 10 pounds of fat in the past 3 weeks!
Since I jumped back on board with this 100%, the fat has been melting off pretty fast. I've only gone to the gym about twice a week so far. Yes my doubts are there about a certain thing but I still have to admit the results I am getting.

hey hulk, i've been reading your posts about the bone/muscle/joint problem you've been having.

during my second crash, i experienced sore joints/bones and my forearms/wrists wasted/wasting. i was in very very bad shape, i was literally sounding like you, everyday getting weaker and felt worse off. I thought i was completely fucked the way you are talking but i went to the dr and got bloodwork done

my magnesium was low:
folate or folic acid was low 1 of the 2 or both:
and he presumed my vitamin D was low so he prescribed me 50k IU daily for a week then tapered off by doing 50k a week

safe to say, i have ZERO joint problems now, my muscles are filling back out (this is the course of 3 months supplementing these things to fix deficiencies),

i have smaller/thinner girly hands than I used to same goes for my wrists and forearms but i don't care that much, aslong as im not in pain and not wasting im fine with this 1000%

and im robust and strong in the gym, even stronger than before.

look into other things you may be lacking in if you haven't already. im doing much better, i NEVER worry about the stuff you're talking about worrying about currently. I hope this can give you some hope bro. all im worrying about now is sex drive and emotional numbness other than that i really cant complain

Cdsnuts
01-27-2018, 11:50 PM
hey hulk, i've been reading your posts about the bone/muscle/joint problem you've been having.

during my second crash, i experienced sore joints/bones and my forearms/wrists wasted/wasting. i was in very very bad shape, i was literally sounding like you, everyday getting weaker and felt worse off. I thought i was completely fucked the way you are talking but i went to the dr and got bloodwork done

my magnesium was low:
folate or folic acid was low 1 of the 2 or both:
and he presumed my vitamin D was low so he prescribed me 50k IU daily for a week then tapered off by doing 50k a week

safe to say, i have ZERO joint problems now, my muscles are filling back out (this is the course of 3 months supplementing these things to fix deficiencies),

i have smaller/thinner girly hands than I used to same goes for my wrists and forearms but i don't care that much, aslong as im not in pain and not wasting im fine with this 1000%

and im robust and strong in the gym, even stronger than before.

look into other things you may be lacking in if you haven't already. im doing much better, i NEVER worry about the stuff you're talking about worrying about currently. I hope this can give you some hope bro. all im worrying about now is sex drive and emotional numbness other than that i really cant complain

Vitamin D is one of the daily supplements I recommend, btw. Most all of you should be taking this. Vitamin D | Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/daily-supplements/vitamin-d/)

Hulk Smash
02-02-2018, 12:45 PM
I got some strange shocks of pain in my prostate about 2 days ago. It's was like 3 times throughout the day. First time I got this.

Anyone experience this or know what it means?

jacknap
02-02-2018, 01:59 PM
I got some strange shocks of pain in my prostate about 2 days ago. It's was like 3 times throughout the day. First time I got this.

Anyone experience this or know what it means?

i think fausto had this on prohormones.

Hulk Smash
02-03-2018, 01:14 AM
I'll take this as a good sign then. It's probably things coming back on line for me...and I'm not even taking prohormones!

Fausto Soares
02-03-2018, 09:14 AM
i think fausto had this on prohormones.

I had a great pain on my pelvic area, in the same time, my orgasm got whiter and reduced A LOT, a clear signal of hormones taking place, i already felt pine pollen sometimes gave me some contractions down there.

Cdsnuts
02-03-2018, 10:38 AM
You're going to feel contractions in your prostate while you're going through the healing process... That's a good sign.

For some reason if I were to ever cough this would spur on the contractions once in awhile... It was a very hard squeezing contraction... It will last for a few seconds and then dissipate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Hulk Smash
02-07-2018, 01:30 AM
I find myself getting sleepy if I'm watching a movie, sitting in class or just waiting for something for an extended period of time. Any of you have this?

what can I do to improve?

biatch
02-07-2018, 09:18 AM
You're going to feel contractions in your prostate while you're going through the healing process... That's a good sign.

For some reason if I were to ever cough this would spur on the contractions once in awhile... It was a very hard squeezing contraction... It will last for a few seconds and then dissipate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

True it is part of the process, but last time I tested my PSA it was on the top range.. maybe better to have a look at it?

Cdsnuts
02-07-2018, 09:48 AM
True it is part of the process, but last time I tested my PSA it was on the top range.. maybe better to have a look at it?

If it makes you feel comfortable and puts you at ease, then go for it. But IMO, your prostate was starved of DHT while your were on Fin/Palmetto and the process of bringing it "back online" is going to feel some sort of way. As far as I'm concerned, it's a harmless part of waking things back up.

biatch
02-07-2018, 10:06 AM
If it makes you feel comfortable and puts you at ease, then go for it. But IMO, your prostate was starved of DHT while your were on Fin/Palmetto and the process of bringing it "back online" is going to feel some sort of way. As far as I'm concerned, it's a harmless part of waking things back up.

Sure, you are right about this.

Pageidol
02-07-2018, 02:07 PM
I find myself getting sleepy if I'm watching a movie, sitting in class or just waiting for something for an extended period of time. Any of you have this?

what can I do to improve?

Stick an ice pack down there 😊

Cdsnuts
02-07-2018, 05:50 PM
I find myself getting sleepy if I'm watching a movie, sitting in class or just waiting for something for an extended period of time. Any of you have this?

what can I do to improve?

Consider yourself lucky. At my worst, I never felt sleepy, even though I was fucking exhausted beyond belief. Can you actually sleep if you were to lie down when feeling like this?

Hulk Smash
02-19-2018, 02:58 AM
Consider yourself lucky. At my worst, I never felt sleepy, even though I was fucking exhausted beyond belief. Can you actually sleep if you were to lie down when feeling like this?

Sometimes i can fall asleep when tired like this...Its just a bit annoying that I'll get pretty tired if I stay still for too long focused on something not interesting to me. Even if I have a good sleep.
But, I think this might be going away slowly too like everything else.

Hulk Smash
02-19-2018, 03:36 AM
UPDATE:

Things are picking up nicely for me as of late. Music sounds better, I played music daily for about the past 2 weeks. This was something everyday for me but had lost for the past 2 years. It feels great hearing music again and actually looking foward to it. I've also been playing guitar again for about the past week. Gym is going pretty well too! I'll soon reach the light at the end of the tunnel, finally!

Cdsnuts
02-20-2018, 08:39 AM
UPDATE:

Things are picking up nicely for me as of late. Music sounds better, I played music daily for about the past 2 weeks. This was something everyday for me but had lost for the past 2 years. It feels great hearing music again and actually looking foward to it. I've also been playing guitar again for about the past week. Gym is going pretty well too! I'll soon reach the light at the end of the tunnel, finally!

3 steps forward one or two steps back.....DON'T STOP this time. Just keep going.

Hulk Smash
04-06-2018, 01:24 PM
I was at GNC the other day. They had their Mega Men multivitamin on sale.
So I looked at the ingredients and I found saw palmetto in it.
Maybe its a negligible amount but still its crazy. I left that shit on the shelf.

Maxout777
04-06-2018, 03:12 PM
I was at GNC the other day. They had their Mega Men multivitamin on sale.
So I looked at the ingredients and I found saw palmetto in it.
Maybe its a negligible amount but still its crazy. I left that shit on the shelf.

If you're looking for a multi, this is what I take currently. It's a great one, whole food variety. It's not full of BS that isn't even useable like a lot of them on shelves today.

https://www.villagevitality.com/products/whole-food-complex-250-tablets

Note that it seems pricy at first, but it's a two month supply as opposed to a one month like most multis.

basementdweller
04-06-2018, 03:27 PM
I was at GNC the other day. They had their Mega Men multivitamin on sale.
So I looked at the ingredients and I found saw palmetto in it.
Maybe its a negligible amount but still its crazy. I left that shit on the shelf.

unreal, after looking carefully at schinoussa's "sea vegetables" that I had been taking for years I found that it had saw palmetto in it. Seriously, I'd like to meet the r-tard who thought it was wise to mix that poison in

Cdsnuts
04-06-2018, 08:10 PM
I was at GNC the other day. They had their Mega Men multivitamin on sale.
So I looked at the ingredients and I found saw palmetto in it.
Maybe its a negligible amount but still its crazy. I left that shit on the shelf.

Food based for multivitamins is where it's at. The one Maxoutt posted is pretty good.

- - - Updated - - -


unreal, after looking carefully at schinoussa's "sea vegetables" that I had been taking for years I found that it had saw palmetto in it. Seriously, I'd like to meet the r-tard who thought it was wise to mix that poison in

Yup....you have to read EVERYTHING. That's why for the most part I get my nutrition from food and herbs alone.

Damn
04-23-2018, 11:12 AM
Hulk, Hope all is going well. I know you have asked in the past how it is possible to regain lost bone mass. I just came across an article in WSJ re: weight training for thinning bones. There was a study performed at an Australian University with 101 post menopausal women with osteoporosis/thinning bones who did high intensity weight training (e.g dead lifts and squats) 2x per week for 8 months. They were able to gain 3% spinal bone mass while the control group, only doing low intensity workouts (not defined), lost another 1.2%. Just think of how that would extrapolate to a relatively young man once they get their hormones back into balance.

Cdsnuts
04-27-2018, 06:08 PM
Recovering bone loss is simply going to be achieved by lifting.

When you lift, the muscle contractions pull on the tendons which put pressure on the bones their attached to. Weight lifting strengthens EVERYTHING in your body, not just muscle.

Keep lifting consistently, your bones will strengthen as your muscles do.

jacknap
04-28-2018, 11:40 AM
I was at GNC the other day. They had their Mega Men multivitamin on sale.
So I looked at the ingredients and I found saw palmetto in it.
Maybe its a negligible amount but still its crazy. I left that shit on the shelf.

that's the problem with formula supplements in addition sometimes the same product will change ingredients. I was getting magnesium/l-theanine from this one canadian company and they lowered the dosages so I was getting less for the same price LOL. the original bottle marketed 'highest dose on the market'

Hulk Smash
05-03-2018, 05:27 AM
Hulk, Hope all is going well. I know you have asked in the past how it is possible to regain lost bone mass. I just came across an article in WSJ re: weight training for thinning bones. There was a study performed at an Australian University with 101 post menopausal women with osteoporosis/thinning bones who did high intensity weight training (e.g dead lifts and squats) 2x per week for 8 months. They were able to gain 3% spinal bone mass while the control group, only doing low intensity workouts (not defined), lost another 1.2%. Just think of how that would extrapolate to a relatively young man once they get their hormones back into balance.

Thanks for the info and keeping me in mind.
I really appreciate the motivation.

Hulk Smash
05-03-2018, 05:53 AM
According to the research I've done, the bone loss suffered mimics issues like necrosis, aging, and nutrient/hormone deficiency.

There's a strong possibility that multiple factors play a role.

Biggest signs are changes in facial feeling, swollen gums, overall bone/joint pain throughout the body, etc...

I'll continue on this later...

Hulk Smash
05-03-2018, 09:11 AM
Recovering bone loss is simply going to be achieved by lifting.

When you lift, the muscle contractions pull on the tendons which put pressure on the bones their attached to. Weight lifting strengthens EVERYTHING in your body, not just muscle.

Keep lifting consistently, your bones will strengthen as your muscles do.

Thanks CD, I'm definitely gonna keep up the lifting

Hulk Smash
05-04-2018, 10:40 AM
According to the research I've done, the bone loss suffered mimics issues like necrosis, aging, and nutrient/hormone deficiency.

There's a strong possibility that multiple factors play a role.

Biggest signs are changes in facial feeling, swollen gums, overall bone/joint pain throughout the body, etc...

I'll continue on this later...

According to the research I've done, the bone loss suffered mimics issues like necrosis(bone tissue death), aging, and nutrient/hormone deficiency.

There's a strong possibility that multiple factors play a role.

Biggest signs are changes in facial feeling, swollen gums, overall bone/joint pain throughout the body, etc...

We have a continuous build and break down of our bones throughout life. The build up is greater than the break down till about the age of 30. There are two chemicals responsible for these processes. One chemical either inhibits the break down or aids in the build up (same idea, different method).

This is one factor in losing bone when we age. This could also be a player in the bone loss post crash.
Most likely the bone issues come about from a complete dysfunction of chemicals and nutrient absorption, due to 5ari.

There is much scientific literature stating that we can strengthen bones and prevent further loss, but bone loss is not recoverable. This is you can find so much stem cell research and gene editing type research to recover bone loss. I'm not saying I agree, but I wouldn't disregard it. I have yet to see concrete evidence of recovered bone loss from pfs. Not trying to stir things up, just my observation...I'm open to being corrected.

However, I have found a few sources (not many) claiming that you can recover bone loss.
In every case of bone recovery there is are two consistent themes. Heavy lifting as per CD's regimen and strict discipline and time put in to see results.

One thing I've added to the regimen is the herb Rehmannia for good measure. I take it about 3 times a week, often times with another rotated herb. Its good for the bones along with other things and inhibits the chemical that breaks down bones. I think I read that it helps to grow bone back but I'm not sure of this.

I also take 100mg of B2 and B6 twice a day as this has helped the bone pain subside. Not sure of everything it does for bones but it has definitely helped.

Theres another interesting thing I've found which involves a certain diet but I have to look for it again.
The source claims bone growth due to the diet and exercise.

Hulk Smash
05-04-2018, 10:52 AM
Hulk, Hope all is going well. I know you have asked in the past how it is possible to regain lost bone mass. I just came across an article in WSJ re: weight training for thinning bones. There was a study performed at an Australian University with 101 post menopausal women with osteoporosis/thinning bones who did high intensity weight training (e.g dead lifts and squats) 2x per week for 8 months. They were able to gain 3% spinal bone mass while the control group, only doing low intensity workouts (not defined), lost another 1.2%. Just think of how that would extrapolate to a relatively young man once they get their hormones back into balance.

Low intensity workouts also contribute to low testosterone according to some sources I've read. This is why cardio is probably not recommended. I remember someone stating he would post his T levels after recovering but never did, and he included a lot of jogging/running in his routine. I'm assuming his levels were low because of the consistent cardio.

Hulk Smash
05-05-2018, 04:22 PM
This may sound like a weird question... should I go down half a size for my sneakers?

They've been fitting me looser than before...

Or should I wait it out?

Cdsnuts
05-09-2018, 08:48 PM
Low intensity workouts also contribute to low testosterone according to some sources I've read. This is why cardio is probably not recommended. I remember someone stating he would post his T levels after recovering but never did, and he included a lot of jogging/running in his routine. I'm assuming his levels were low because of the consistent cardio.

Consitent cardio is a sure fire way to lower your testosterone levels. Your body doesn't know whether you're running a five K, or running for your life. The internal environment of the body is effected negatively either way. Cortisol shoots through the roof, you go catabolic, and your testosterone gets fried. That's why HIIT is the "cardio" of choice. It effects the body in the complete opposite way of steady state cardio.

- - - Updated - - -


This may sound like a weird question... should I go down half a size for my sneakers?

They've been fitting me looser than before...

Or should I wait it out?

Um...that depends on if you like the feel of loose sneakers?

Hulk Smash
05-10-2018, 04:57 AM
Consitent cardio is a sure fire way to lower your testosterone levels. Your body doesn't know whether you're running a five K, or running for your life. The internal environment of the body is effected negatively either way. Cortisol shoots through the roof, you go catabolic, and your testosterone gets fried. That's why HIIT is the "cardio" of choice. It effects the body in the complete opposite way of steady state cardio.

- - - Updated - - -



Um...that depends on if you like the feel of loose sneakers?

LOL, I don't like the feel of loose sneakers. Will my feet fill back in???? is what I'm asking.
I'd rather not buy a new pair if my feet will eventually fit normally.
I remember reading Chi say that his hands and wrists returned to pre pfs size. But hes a ghost now.
I just want some verification and not waste money on shoes if this is the case.
Thanks in advance CD

Hulk Smash
05-10-2018, 04:59 AM
And another question...some of my friends say I look shorter. Is this the norm of the swing of things?
I know this may sound silly and maybe this question is ridiculous to u CD but ur kinda the unofficial expert on this in my book.
So I hope you can be patient with these questions that sound out there...

Just found this new study...diet consisting of 25% prunes may reverse bone loss
Can Prunes Reverse Bone Loss? - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-prunes-reverse-bone-loss/)

Durantia37
05-10-2018, 09:35 AM
And another question...some of my friends say I look shorter. Is this the norm of the swing of things?
I know this may sound silly and maybe this question is ridiculous to u CD but ur kinda the unofficial expert on this in my book.
So I hope you can be patient with these questions that sound out there...

Just found this new study...diet consisting of 25% prunes may reverse bone loss
Can Prunes Reverse Bone Loss? - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-prunes-reverse-bone-loss/)

I've always felt like I was shorter during downswings and taller during upswings, personally.

jacknap
05-10-2018, 07:35 PM
I've always felt like I was shorter during downswings and taller during upswings, personally.

yeah now that i'm in an upswing I'm back to feeling tall. think it's mostly psychological. androgens = confidence.

but i can't speak for everyone. also my jaw structure is starting to come back. one of my pfs friends on facebook was like 'wtf are u talking about your face being puffy' when he saw my latest pic :D

Hulk Smash
05-11-2018, 03:17 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys.

@durantia I'm hoping it's not just a feeling of being taller, but instead actually is a gain in bone size.

While there are some psychological aspects to pfs, I know for me personally and think that most guys really do experience a physical change in height and overall bone size.

I wont chalk things up to the mind's perception, as this might cause laziness and procrastination. It certainly did in my case. Over time the physical reality grew worse.

I don't think it serves anyone to downplay the very harsh truth of every hormone being turned off, including HGH and the fact that PFS causes perhaps several other issues with bone metabolism. Last I checked, even the foundation didn't mention this let alone any so called doctors.

So to any new people, I suggest you get on top of things immediately at the first signs. It all happens (the deterioration) slowly. Don't end up with the skeletal structure of an out of shape 70 year old or a k-pop star and then wonder if ur ever gonna get it back. As you can see there is no straight answer of this aspect coming back.

I just need to make that clear.
So everyone has the best chance to recover.

Durantia37
05-11-2018, 12:25 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys.

@durantia I'm hoping it's not just a feeling of being taller, but instead actually is a gain in bone size.

While there are some psychological aspects to pfs, I know for me personally and think that most guys really do experience a physical change in height and overall bone size.

I wont chalk things up to the mind's perception, as this might cause laziness and procrastination. It certainly did in my case. Over time the physical reality grew worse.

I don't think it serves anyone to downplay the very harsh truth of every hormone being turned off, including HGH and the fact that PFS causes perhaps several other issues with bone metabolism. Last I checked, even the foundation didn't mention this let alone any so called doctors.

So to any new people, I suggest you get on top of things immediately at the first signs. It all happens (the deterioration) slowly. Don't end up with the skeletal structure of an out of shape 70 year old or a k-pop star and then wonder if ur ever gonna get it back. As you can see there is no straight answer of this aspect coming back.

I just need to make that clear.
So everyone has the best chance to recover.

What I'm talking about definitely isn't psychological. I get taller and I get better jaw structure, a bigger nose, and bigger stronger teeth during upswings. At this point, most of my life is an upswing of sorts, but these changes are still detectable to my highly trained eye.

Cdsnuts
05-12-2018, 03:25 PM
Okay....you may see me as the unofficial expert here, but let me point out the important part of that statement...."un-official." Personally, I really don't think that people are losing and gaining height during upswings and down swings. It sounds......well....ridiculous. Please don't take that the wrong way...I'm speaking freely and "off the cuff" here. It may seem ridiculous, but I assure you, I know your concerns are very real.

This is something that can easily be proven by measuring yourself consistently, if you so must. I don't think it's necessary at all and just adds another thing for you to worry about. The protocol on it's own can be enough, if you know what I mean.

I really think Jacknap hit the nail on the head with this one. In my opinion, it comes down to your state of mind. Androgen's effect this to a HUGE extent.

When all is said and done, you have to know that what you are doing (if in fact you are all in, 100%, ALL of the time) will reverse the situation regardless of what you're dealing with. It is simply the laws of nature.

In regards to your sneakers, it's up to you. You don't know how long it's going to take to fill back in, and yes, it will fill back in because if it didn't, then you wouldn't be able to consider yourself recovered, right? What I can tell you is that exercise is a solid cornerstone of this program. It HAS to be done to make headway. I personally wouldn't sit around and wait for my feet to fill back in if that means I couldn't sprint. If moneys tight, find a field and do it bare foot.

Tell me again Hulk....how long have you been at 100%? Because I know that you've stopped and started many, many times. This is going to negatively effect your progress, as I've mentioned in other posts.

Cdsnuts
05-12-2018, 03:31 PM
What I'm talking about definitely isn't psychological. I get taller and I get better jaw structure, a bigger nose, and bigger stronger teeth during upswings. At this point, most of my life is an upswing of sorts, but these changes are still detectable to my highly trained eye.

Bigger teeth?

Bigger Nose?

And taller?

I personally have never experienced shifts like this. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but you can see how this sounds peculiar seeing as these things are made from some of the strongest materials nature can put out. They're not exactly.....plastic, for lack of a better word.

If this is really what you think is happening moreso that just a change in perception (which is the camp I'm in) then I would seriously get measured and keep a log. In regards to height, this can be easily proven.

DrivenToRecover
05-12-2018, 05:36 PM
LOL, I don't like the feel of loose sneakers. Will my feet fill back in???? is what I'm asking.
I'd rather not buy a new pair if my feet will eventually fit normally.
I remember reading Chi say that his hands and wrists returned to pre pfs size. But hes a ghost now.
I just want some verification and not waste money on shoes if this is the case.
Thanks in advance CD

To add my two cents, my feet have 100% shrunk. No idea why

Cdsnuts
05-12-2018, 05:45 PM
To add my two cents, my feet have 100% shrunk. No idea why

I can see how that could happen because of what the drug does to the body....it's the back and forth, tall, then short, then tall again thing that really through me for a loop.

Durantia37
05-12-2018, 10:24 PM
Bigger teeth?

Bigger Nose?

And taller?

I personally have never experienced shifts like this. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but you can see how this sounds peculiar seeing as these things are made from some of the strongest materials nature can put out. They're not exactly.....plastic, for lack of a better word.

If this is really what you think is happening moreso that just a change in perception (which is the camp I'm in) then I would seriously get measured and keep a log. In regards to height, this can be easily proven.

I swear dude. The first time I noticed that my nose was tiny (way back when I was mega-fucked), I thought my hands were swollen. I touched my nose and was like "Damn my hands are huge for some reason." My nose changes size with my dick. If one is normal, they're both normal, etc.

My teeth also disintegrated during my worst times. They felt weird, so I would scrape them with my fingernail and little pieces would come off. Now the difference is more subtle - just kind of a stronger, fuller set of teeth during upswings.

Concerning height...literally everyone is taller at different parts of the day, every day. Doing yoga can lengthen your spine and make you feel taller, and poor spine health does the opposite. It doesn't seem farfetched for a complete hormonal catastrophe that affects every system in the body to have some effect as well.

jacknap
05-13-2018, 02:42 PM
i've definitely felt shorter but when I'm hanging out with friends and we all know each others height when I actually paid attention I was not any shorter than them or height ranks remained the same. I'm a little over 6'

Durantia37
05-13-2018, 03:33 PM
Yeah I'm not saying I literally shrink down like Benjamin Button. I'm sure it's undetectable to anyone else.

Cdsnuts
05-14-2018, 05:43 PM
Concerning height...literally everyone is taller at different parts of the day, every day. Doing yoga can lengthen your spine and make you feel taller, and poor spine health does the opposite. It doesn't seem farfetched for a complete hormonal catastrophe that affects every system in the body to have some effect as well.

Yeah, I get all that.

I can see how one would get shorter, smaller feet, disintegrating teeth etc. These things are the downstream effect from a hormonal catastrophe. What I'm having trouble with is the fact that is goes back and forth....tall, then short, then tall again, etc.

And when you say peoples height varies though out the day, I can see that too...a little, but not by enough to notice with the naked eye. You guys are saying that you're height varies with upswings and downswings, that's a tough one for me. If you're noticing that, then it would have to be noticeable with the naked eye, that would have to be a pretty big difference. Again, I think it maybe more perception.

Thankfully, with this, there is a very easy way to find out.....simply measuring yourself throughout your upswings and downswings. This would prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

Who's game to take this on??

jacknap
05-15-2018, 11:43 AM
was listening to audiobook the red queen and was saying how they discovered the gene alpha reductase deficiency and the men who had this were effiminate and didnt have penis's until puberty but their penis's never grew and would ejaculate out their pee hole but their brains were masculine after puberty.

so similar to what fausto saures said this protocol is like a second puberty for us BUT luckily for us we had a normal puberty. the epigenetic thing might be true in that it turns of alpha reductase and we half to claw to turn it back on.

though the guys at hackstasis seem to really be doing well with fixing mineral ratios as well so it could just be that

basementdweller
05-16-2018, 04:18 PM
During my second downswing I went through all of these again. When I started recovering again my body was different - 10 months later I would say I'm equally portioned in my body and legs and I have noticed lately people have been commenting on my height.

I don't think you should be seeing significant declines in these areas if you are on the mend, maybe your teeth quality may fluctuate but I think these should all slowly be corrected if you are doing things right. They are definitely reversible in my opinion.

commenting on your height in what way?

I think if people have lost height, it might just be from the loss of core muscles.

Durantia37
05-16-2018, 08:19 PM
commenting on your height in what way?

I think if people have lost height, it might just be from the loss of core muscles.

I'm open to the possibility it has nothing to do with bone loss. I've stopped caring about what's going on and why, for the most part. As long as everything goes back to normal I don't care.

I've also had people make more comments about me being tall during the really good swings (I'm about 6'2).

RickTheRuler
05-16-2018, 08:27 PM
I’m 5”10 about. Went to doctors before and after this, I was still 5”10..

When I crashed I started fasting a week & some change later though.

I did feel shorter some days, I think the depression puts you in a bad slouched posture ..you don’t even realize it.. PFS depression can be so deep that it literally affects the body to that extent & you don’t even see it.

Also highlights the importance of the brain herbs, meditation, breath work, & positive outlook..

After rounds of breathing just my overall structure felt more upright . Could be core muscles, could be the mood it puts you in etc.

jacknap
05-18-2018, 05:11 PM
I'm in a down swing this week and again my face is a bit more puffy. for me it's more facial puffiness / less restful sleep / libido / erection hits now.

Cdsnuts
05-21-2018, 08:24 PM
I'm in a down swing this week and again my face is a bit more puffy. for me it's more facial puffiness / less restful sleep / libido / erection hits now.

How often do you get downswings in regards to weeks? How often and how long do they last. Have you notice the severity of them going down?

jacknap
05-22-2018, 08:07 AM
How often do you get downswings in regards to weeks? How often and how long do they last. Have you notice the severity of them going down?

i haven't tracked it super hard. but it seems like 2 weeks good and 2 weeks bad kinda thing. the severity is nowhere near as bad as say the first 4-6 months of pfs.

When I came off my second cycle I feel like I reached a new level of recovery. During down swings though I feel like I plateaud oftentimes. so hard to see and judge things with a clear lense.

regardless. I can do 90% of things I used to do so i'm grateful for level of recovery I have so far. One thing that I feel like I struggled with more than anyone is sleep though. it's been a year since my crash and my sleep still isn't normal yet. Many nights where it's close to normal though. I find when my sleep is normal everything else is normal too. eg) when I sleep deep and long I get morning erections, i'm not tired, and my mind is sharper / less fatigue. so i think it's the sleep issues that are holding me back the most.

I have a nice sleep supplement rotation going on that helps.

Glycine / L-theanine daily. Melatonin 3mg 3-5 times a week

then phenibut twice a week tuesday/saturday

then once a week now (used to do daily but found they stopped working)

ziziphus
alibizia
passionflower
skullcap
ashwagandha

Cdsnuts
05-22-2018, 08:43 PM
i haven't tracked it super hard. but it seems like 2 weeks good and 2 weeks bad kinda thing. the severity is nowhere near as bad as say the first 4-6 months of pfs.

When I came off my second cycle I feel like I reached a new level of recovery. During down swings though I feel like I plateaud oftentimes. so hard to see and judge things with a clear lense.

regardless. I can do 90% of things I used to do so i'm grateful for level of recovery I have so far. One thing that I feel like I struggled with more than anyone is sleep though. it's been a year since my crash and my sleep still isn't normal yet. Many nights where it's close to normal though. I find when my sleep is normal everything else is normal too. eg) when I sleep deep and long I get morning erections, i'm not tired, and my mind is sharper / less fatigue. so i think it's the sleep issues that are holding me back the most.

I have a nice sleep supplement rotation going on that helps.

Glycine / L-theanine daily. Melatonin 3mg 3-5 times a week

then phenibut twice a week tuesday/saturday

then once a week now (used to do daily but found they stopped working)

ziziphus
alibizia
passionflower
skullcap
ashwagandha

I've had a few guys try this with great results. I've even tried it myself after a weekend of drinking where my sleep was messed up from the booze. Take 20g of glycine in one shot......20. You'll be out like a light and sleep through the whole night, and, wake up refreshed.

I've done some research people have used this amino acid up to 60g in one shot without and problems.

Try it. It may be your new favorite go to.

You could even throw a melatonin on top of that for good measure.

jacknap
05-24-2018, 08:17 AM
I've had a few guys try this with great results. I've even tried it myself after a weekend of drinking where my sleep was messed up from the booze. Take 20g of glycine in one shot......20. You'll be out like a light and sleep through the whole night, and, wake up refreshed.

I've done some research people have used this amino acid up to 60g in one shot without and problems.

Try it. It may be your new favorite go to.

You could even throw a melatonin on top of that for good measure.

I tried the 20 grams of glycine when I first crashed and it honestly did nothing for me but I'll try again now that i'm further along maybe it'll do the trick, thanks! :D

the thing that works the best for me is the phenibut but obviously can't use that more than twice a week lol.

Cdsnuts
05-24-2018, 06:45 PM
I tried the 20 grams of glycine when I first crashed and it honestly did nothing for me but I'll try again now that i'm further along maybe it'll do the trick, thanks! :D

the thing that works the best for me is the phenibut but obviously can't use that more than twice a week lol.

Yeah, I was actually surprised how good it worked for me.

And man, phenibut is great....too great. I have to stay away from it otherwise I'll be in trouble quickly.

Hulk Smash
07-13-2018, 12:24 AM
Hey everyone checking in here, hope you're all doing great.

I was on the protocol about 85% up until maybe 2-3 months ago. I've had too much going on to be able to focus on recovery.

However, in that time, I still managed to meditate on life and dealing with this. I also continued learning new things.
An unintentional result of my learning and observations was to conclude with 85%-95% accuracy as to what pfs actually is.
I think its important to understand as much as possible in order to approach it properly and with best results.
And its not a map of bio-chemical reactions or anything complex, its very simple actually and not an explanation I've found anywhere else.

Anyway
I'm getting back on recovery 110% in the coming weeks as my time and energy becomes more free.
I'm certain that a 90% recovery is possible and will happen.
The other 10% would be luck or a miracle or something extra I add into the regimen along the way.
Guys under 30 yrs old have the best chance to reach that 100%. So you younger guys out there better stick to the regimen and fast.

I'll update you guys on progress as it comes. Its good to see you guys are still at it and getting better!

HULK SMASH 2.0
12-15-2018, 09:19 PM
Hulk Smash checking in. I couldn't retrieve my password so i created a new account.

HULK SMASH 2.0
12-15-2018, 09:34 PM
*VERY IMPORTANT*

Vitamin B2 and B6 are essential when you crash.

THESE ARE THE ONLY SUPPLEMENTS THAT STOPPED MY BONE PAIN AND BONE LOSS.

100mg of each every 12 hours.

Other supplements taken have been Vitamin D daily and sometimes Vitamin B1.

Its possible to find these nutrients in the herbs but I needed a direct source and this dosage.
If the herbs have resolved bone discomfort then theres no need.

TAKE B2 and B6 if you've just crashed or have mild pfs. Theres a probability that pfs compromises bone metabolism.
Its a VERY SLOW bone loss as with all things pfs. It crept up on me within 2 years of consistent bone and joint pain and facial bone discomfort and numbness.
Do yourself the favor and take those to prevent it. I had relief within about 1 week.

I know theres alot of back and forth on whether or not bone loss is a real side of pfs....
It really is a side effect.

I can't speak to everyones experience and troubles but theres high likely hood that everyone has their bone metabolism in trouble unless they had somehow targeted the issue early in crash phase.

Take those Vitamins if you just crashed whether or not you feel bone issues. IT IS A REAL SIDE EFFECT and its better to not lose any mass because theres no telling if anyone actually recovers it.

But do the juice feast or water fast as CD says first. It will get your gut in shape to absorb nutrients and clean out any blockage.

Hulk Smash
09-23-2019, 09:26 AM
Hulk is back! I was absent for a while due to being busy, forgetting my password and not trying log in again.

I've had some improvements as of late and some set backs too. But things are progressing overall. I've picked up a bit of knowledge during my time off which may be useful to some of us.

Lets see if I reach that 110% by 2020.

mcbbould
09-23-2019, 01:10 PM
How long have you been on the protocol? It seems like years?

Rafenk
09-24-2019, 01:10 AM
Hulk is back! I was absent for a while due to being busy, forgetting my password and not trying log in again.

I've had some improvements as of late and some set backs too. But things are progressing overall. I've picked up a bit of knowledge during my time off which may be useful to some of us.

Lets see if I reach that 110% by 2020.

Would you mind sharing that knowledge?

Hulk Smash
09-24-2019, 04:31 AM
Summary:

I didnt stay on CD's protocol up until 2 months ago with some tweeks. In part because I was too busy with university and in part due to my difficult symptoms, especially what I recently only realized was bone loss.

I ended up at another forum for a while gathering whatever ideas I could to help me on this journey. It was of some benefit but I'm back here again for good reason.

Now years later I have to admit CD's regimen is probably our best bet. I struggled alot to trust and do the work due to my pain/mental state, the few herb doses not "working" when i started out here at SS, and also being discouraged by guys that jump on here calling him "CT". Hahaha.

Sorry CD, it is a bit funny.

I've been on an upswing as of late.
And I mean ONLY the past 2 months.
Yes, the struggle has been real and the deterioration of myself caught me by surprise.

I SHOULD HAVE STUCK WITH THE PROTOCOL. I put it in caps because thinking that things will get better on its own was stupid, thinking it wasnt so bad was stupid and ignoring it all to focus on studies and work was stupid. Because the crash creeps up on you and doesnt stop making you worse until YOU DO THE WORK. Money and studies dont bring your body back and dont prevent it from getting worse. So get your priority straight. We only get one vessel.

If i could go back, I would have gotten the largest loan possible to keep me afloat for atleast a year and mad the regimen my one purpose in life. Sounds crazy and unbelievable but EVERY second counts. So I hope those of you lurking or questioning will get with the program as soon as youre done reading this chapter of Hulks journey.

In the past:

1. The herbs didnt work at first, or I atleast felt nothing.
2. I kept eating a moderately healthy diet but not on the level needed for recovery
3. I kept questioning everything about the protocol and whats the best approach and this receptor and that hormone blah blah blah
4. I put recovery on the shelf for later
(dont make my mistake)
5. I researched and learned alot (shouldve also been doing the protocol)

TODAY:

1. Its been about 2 months following the regimen 90%
2. Only 3 herbs are in rotation (financial reasons)
3. Mineral drops and collagen and taken daily mostly to improve my bone situation.
4. B vitamin complex and folate are also my additions. Help with metabolism in cells, organs etc.
5. Muscle, strength, mood, energy, focus, bone issues are all improving in leaps and bounds. I'd say I'm at 70%-80% improved in all of those compared to just 2 or 3 months ago.

Some issues still have yet to clear up or improve such as sexual, tinnitus, sleep, shin splints, newly developed stomach ulcer(s) etc...

My recent improvements are progress that I wasnt getting before. It just took a while for the engine to start again.
First month was slow and non eventful and then it just started happening.
Was it the added tweaks? They probably helped, but its doing everything daily as a routine that makes it work.

I'll post about my bone issues and my methods to recover that specifically when I get a chance.

Good to be back,
BEGIN AND NEVER STOP

Hulk Smash

Marquis
09-24-2019, 04:46 AM
Summary:

I didnt stay on CD's protocol up until 2 months ago with some tweeks. In part because I was too busy with university and in part due to my difficult symptoms, especially what I recently only realized was bone loss.

I ended up at another forum for a while gathering whatever ideas I could to help me on this journey. It was of some benefit but I'm back here again for good reason.

Now years later I have to admit CD's regimen is probably our best bet. I struggled alot to trust and do the work due to my pain/mental state, the few herb doses not "working" when i started out here at SS, and also being discouraged by guys that jump on here calling him "CT". Hahaha.

Sorry CD, it is a bit funny.

I've been on an upswing as of late.
And I mean ONLY the past 2 months.
Yes, the struggle has been real and the deterioration of myself caught me by surprise.

I SHOULD HAVE STUCK WITH THE PROTOCOL. I put it in caps because thinking that things will get better on its own was stupid, thinking it wasnt so bad was stupid and ignoring it all to focus on studies and work was stupid. Because the crash creeps up on you and doesnt stop making you worse until YOU DO THE WORK. Money and studies dont bring your body back and dont prevent it from getting worse. So get your priority straight. We only get one vessel.

If i could go back, I would have gotten the largest loan possible to keep me afloat for atleast a year and mad the regimen my one purpose in life. Sounds crazy and unbelievable but EVERY second counts. So I hope those of you lurking or questioning will get with the program as soon as youre done reading this chapter of Hulks journey.

In the past:

1. The herbs didnt work at first, or I atleast felt nothing.
2. I kept eating a moderately healthy diet but not on the level needed for recovery
3. I kept questioning everything about the protocol and whats the best approach and this receptor and that hormone blah blah blah
4. I put recovery on the shelf for later
(dont make my mistake)
5. I researched and learned alot (shouldve also been doing the protocol)

TODAY:

1. Its been about 2 months following the regimen 90%
2. Only 3 herbs are in rotation (financial reasons)
3. Mineral drops and collagen and taken daily mostly to improve my bone situation.
4. B vitamin complex and folate are also my additions. Help with metabolism in cells, organs etc.
5. Muscle, strength, mood, energy, focus, bone issues are all improving in leaps and bounds. I'd say I'm at 70%-80% improved in all of those compared to just 2 or 3 months ago.

Some issues still have yet to clear up or improve such as sexual, tinnitus, sleep, shin splints, newly developed stomach ulcer(s) etc...

My recent improvements are progress that I wasnt getting before. It just took a while for the engine to start again.
First month was slow and non eventful and then it just started happening.
Was it the added tweaks? They probably helped, but its doing everything daily as a routine that makes it work.

I'll post about my bone issues and my methods to recover that specifically when I get a chance.

Good to be back,
BEGIN AND NEVER STOP

Hulk Smash

All my best wishes to you, Hulk. Have you considered vitamin K2 supplementation for your bone symptoms? Everything I’ve read around it suggests that K2 (either mk4, or a mix of mk4 and mk7) along with adequate calcium and vitamin D3 of course, should be helpful.

Additionally, while it is not my place to question the experience of other members and any methods they may have found helpful, to anybody else reading this thread please be aware that high doses of supplemental vitamin B6 have been linked to nerve damage, so please supplement with caution.

Rafenk
09-24-2019, 07:22 AM
Summary:

I didnt stay on CD's protocol up until 2 months ago with some tweeks. In part because I was too busy with university and in part due to my difficult symptoms, especially what I recently only realized was bone loss.

I ended up at another forum for a while gathering whatever ideas I could to help me on this journey. It was of some benefit but I'm back here again for good reason.

Now years later I have to admit CD's regimen is probably our best bet. I struggled alot to trust and do the work due to my pain/mental state, the few herb doses not "working" when i started out here at SS, and also being discouraged by guys that jump on here calling him "CT". Hahaha.

Sorry CD, it is a bit funny.

I've been on an upswing as of late.
And I mean ONLY the past 2 months.
Yes, the struggle has been real and the deterioration of myself caught me by surprise.

I SHOULD HAVE STUCK WITH THE PROTOCOL. I put it in caps because thinking that things will get better on its own was stupid, thinking it wasnt so bad was stupid and ignoring it all to focus on studies and work was stupid. Because the crash creeps up on you and doesnt stop making you worse until YOU DO THE WORK. Money and studies dont bring your body back and dont prevent it from getting worse. So get your priority straight. We only get one vessel.

If i could go back, I would have gotten the largest loan possible to keep me afloat for atleast a year and mad the regimen my one purpose in life. Sounds crazy and unbelievable but EVERY second counts. So I hope those of you lurking or questioning will get with the program as soon as youre done reading this chapter of Hulks journey.

In the past:

1. The herbs didnt work at first, or I atleast felt nothing.
2. I kept eating a moderately healthy diet but not on the level needed for recovery
3. I kept questioning everything about the protocol and whats the best approach and this receptor and that hormone blah blah blah
4. I put recovery on the shelf for later
(dont make my mistake)
5. I researched and learned alot (shouldve also been doing the protocol)

TODAY:

1. Its been about 2 months following the regimen 90%
2. Only 3 herbs are in rotation (financial reasons)
3. Mineral drops and collagen and taken daily mostly to improve my bone situation.
4. B vitamin complex and folate are also my additions. Help with metabolism in cells, organs etc.
5. Muscle, strength, mood, energy, focus, bone issues are all improving in leaps and bounds. I'd say I'm at 70%-80% improved in all of those compared to just 2 or 3 months ago.

Some issues still have yet to clear up or improve such as sexual, tinnitus, sleep, shin splints, newly developed stomach ulcer(s) etc...

My recent improvements are progress that I wasnt getting before. It just took a while for the engine to start again.
First month was slow and non eventful and then it just started happening.
Was it the added tweaks? They probably helped, but its doing everything daily as a routine that makes it work.

I'll post about my bone issues and my methods to recover that specifically when I get a chance.

Good to be back,
BEGIN AND NEVER STOP

Hulk Smash

Have you done a prohormone cycle yet?

Hulk Smash
10-01-2019, 04:12 AM
All my best wishes to you, Hulk. Have you considered vitamin K2 supplementation for your bone symptoms? Everything I’ve read around it suggests that K2 (either mk4, or a mix of mk4 and mk7) along with adequate calcium and vitamin D3 of course, should be helpful.

Additionally, while it is not my place to question the experience of other members and any methods they may have found helpful, to anybody else reading this thread please be aware that high doses of supplemental vitamin B6 have been linked to nerve damage, so please supplement with caution.

Thanks for the suggestions. I tried K2 with MK supplementation fot about a month, this was probably 1 or 2 years ago. The result was random odd chest aches/pains. Mostly felt like it was bone pain and perhaps a bit of neck discomfort. At that time it just wasnt working for me but might work for others. I discontinued it and havent supplemented K or M since.

I'm aware excess B6 can cause nerve damage but it hasnt been a problem for me. Some sources claim that lack of B6 causes the same nerve damage. It seems to have been nothing but beneficial to me, specifically in improving my hands, wrists pain, weakness, numbness and tingles. There was definitely some nerve damage going on and some of that still lingers today but atleast Im not entirely incapcitated now.

Hulk Smash
10-01-2019, 04:14 AM
Have you done a prohormone cycle yet?

No prohormones. I'll be trying sorghum and other food sources for DHT enhancement when the time is right. I may consider the prohormones if that yields no exceptional results.

Hulk Smash
10-07-2019, 09:17 AM
Just want to warn you guys against proton pump inhibitors (PPI). It increases cancer risk among other sides like dementia...Its said to aid in stomach ulcers, acid reflux, etc, by inhibiting acid production. The catch is, its actually shutting down acid production in every cell of the body. That acid is needed to cleanse and renew your cells.

Just saying this because I was having stomach acid issues for a few weeks up until about 14 days ago. I havent had issues with that since after chewing calcium tablets for a few weeks. (make sure they dont contain talc)

Turnover25
10-07-2019, 10:29 AM
Just want to warn you guys against proton pump inhibitors (PPI). It increases cancer risk among other sides like dementia...Its said to aid in stomach ulcers, acid reflux, etc, by inhibiting acid production. The catch is, its actually shutting down acid production in every cell of the body. That acid is needed to cleanse and renew your cells.

Just saying this because I was having stomach acid issues for a few weeks up until about 14 days ago. I havent had issues with that since after chewing calcium tablets for a few weeks. (make sure they dont contain talc)


I had horrible sides while taking PPI’s for my GERD, I was cognitively impaired as bad as finesteride, the only difference is the fin sides didn’t go away after I quit. I agree with you, PPI’s are bad news.

slader1
10-10-2019, 11:02 PM
I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?

- - - Updated - - -


Just want to warn you guys against proton pump inhibitors (PPI). It increases cancer risk among other sides like dementia...Its said to aid in stomach ulcers, acid reflux, etc, by inhibiting acid production. The catch is, its actually shutting down acid production in every cell of the body. That acid is needed to cleanse and renew your cells.

Just saying this because I was having stomach acid issues for a few weeks up until about 14 days ago. I havent had issues with that since after chewing calcium tablets for a few weeks. (make sure they dont contain talc)

I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?

Hulk Smash
10-11-2019, 12:19 AM
I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?

- - - Updated - - -



I am dealing with a similar issue, I have hand aches, foot aches wrist aches, and aches and numbness all through my face and even neck. It's gotten qutie bad and demoralizing.

I will try your b2/b6 idea and get back to you. It is likely I have not had enough b-vitamins, and I have been taking niacinamide (b3) on its own for many years. I also took aspirin+k2 for a long time, which may have overly suppressed my estrogen.

Perhaps my best bet is a b-complex, with all the b vitamins?

B2/B6 may help you. Its the only supplementation that eased the pain and numbness for me. 100 mg twice per day.
I followed this instruction from an online source and am grateful it worked.
The site stated it may take about 2 weeks to start feeling improvement. It was a similar timeline for me.

I'm currently taking a B complex instead of the individual B2/B6 I started with. However, I sometimes take only half the dosage due to the other B's and folate present. Not sure if its wise to take double the recommendation on the label. I will do more research as time permits to see if double dosage on all B's is ok in our situation.

Also bear in mind, the herb cycle has plenty of vitamins and minerals too...
Moderation with a B complex is probably best.

slader1
10-11-2019, 11:30 AM
B2/B6 may help you. Its the only supplementation that eased the pain and numbness for me. 100 mg twice per day.
I followed this instruction from an online source and am grateful it worked.
The site stated it may take about 2 weeks to start feeling improvement. It was a similar timeline for me.

I'm currently taking a B complex instead of the individual B2/B6 I started with. However, I sometimes take only half the dosage due to the other B's and folate present. Not sure if its wise to take double the recommendation on the label. I will do more research as time permits to see if double dosage on all B's is ok in our situation.

Also bear in mind, the herb cycle has plenty of vitamins and minerals too...
Moderation with a B complex is probably best.

Alright I may just go out and pick up a b-complex right away. I ordered b2/b6 individually as well.

Do you drink coffee? I used to be drinking many cups each day to help with fatigue and brain fog, and I think this may have messed up my nerves too.

I am still on the fence about the herb cycle. It is pretty expensive and I am worried all those herbs may stress my liver or kidneys or something. Also, I didn't find that any of the herbs claim to increase 5-ar.

If people keep giving good reports on the herbs then I will definitely try it, though.

Bankai9000
10-11-2019, 01:27 PM
slader1 nothing will stress your liver as much as the typical raypeatdiet XDD

raypeatdiet is gold for fast oxidizers, it's great. And PFS people are either very slow or very fast, give a slow oxidizer the raypeatdiet and he will not only be balding way faster, but also ruining his body in every single aspect
That's why Rays and Dannys approach work only for a VERY limited group of people

just youtube or read about the Herbs/Adaptogens, it will put your mind at ease

jacknap
10-11-2019, 02:36 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I tried K2 with MK supplementation fot about a month, this was probably 1 or 2 years ago. The result was random odd chest aches/pains. Mostly felt like it was bone pain and perhaps a bit of neck discomfort. At that time it just wasnt working for me but might work for others. I discontinued it and havent supplemented K or M since.

I'm aware excess B6 can cause nerve damage but it hasnt been a problem for me. Some sources claim that lack of B6 causes the same nerve damage. It seems to have been nothing but beneficial to me, specifically in improving my hands, wrists pain, weakness, numbness and tingles. There was definitely some nerve damage going on and some of that still lingers today but atleast Im not entirely incapcitated now.

I had problems with K2 too but that's cuz it thickens your blood I think that's why the chest pains. I dropped it and never get that. Or if I do andro / pine pollen I make sure I drink potassium for excess coconut water.

slader1
10-11-2019, 04:50 PM
slader1 nothing will stress your liver as much as the typical raypeatdiet XDD

raypeatdiet is gold for fast oxidizers, it's great. And PFS people are either very slow or very fast, give a slow oxidizer the raypeatdiet and he will not only be balding way faster, but also ruining his body in every single aspect
That's why Rays and Dannys approach work only for a VERY limited group of people

just youtube or read about the Herbs/Adaptogens, it will put your mind at ease

So then how can you tell if you are a slow or fast oxidizer? I would drink a ton of coffee on the Ray Peat diet because there is a study showing that caffiene increases DHT and progesterone in the brain. However it lowers gaba, which causes anxiety and after years of drinking it by the 20oz big mug, I've decided to come off it. In order to drink this much coffee I had to eat a lot of fruit and sugar and juice to keep my blood sugar from crashing. If I did not, I would get a spike of adrenaline and be even more uncomfortable than normal.

Anyways, what herbs would you recommend to start out with if I'm going that route?

Bankai9000
10-12-2019, 04:29 AM
So then how can you tell if you are a slow or fast oxidizer? I would drink a ton of coffee on the Ray Peat diet because there is a study showing that caffiene increases DHT and progesterone in the brain. However it lowers gaba, which causes anxiety and after years of drinking it by the 20oz big mug, I've decided to come off it. In order to drink this much coffee I had to eat a lot of fruit and sugar and juice to keep my blood sugar from crashing. If I did not, I would get a spike of adrenaline and be even more uncomfortable than normal.

Anyways, what herbs would you recommend to start out with if I'm going that route?

I don't think it matters, Not what anyone new wants to hear, but probably the more herbs the better xD. I just read about every single herb and made up my mind which one fits "more" to my personal problems. But I'm not treating PFS like "PFS" anyway, more like a accumulated amount of single problems and am trying to attack those from all angles^^, but I got a list in my thread somewhere which I am using.

From my understanding Ray Peat diet "slows" people down, but most people in this modern lifestyle are already "slow".
I did a hairtest to find out what type I was and I was very slow, toxic high amounts of calcium and copper, magnesium nonexistent. Which all fit with my high fruit, high milk, much alc and stress-chasing lifestyle for years. (Steady)High fruit intake can be as taxing on the liver as alcohol abuse.

Hulk Smash
01-11-2020, 02:04 AM
So I just realized what could be a vital error in recovery regimen:

I've been VERY INCONSISTENT with iodine supplementation. SMH

wtf...I was wondering why certain things still aren't clicking. I'm thinking its probably been thyroid related.

Will finish my Lugol's iodine. I'm applying it to the skin and waiting for absorption.

CD, is lugol's skin application ok? Or drinking it is better?
Also do you consider this a key need for those of us displaying signs of under-active thyroid?

P.S. thyroid is very important to bone metabolism. Calcitonin, calcium, osteoblasts/osteoclasts etc. are regulated via the gland. Under-active gland = possible bone resorption

Hulk Smash
01-13-2020, 05:19 AM
Just want to remind the importance of following EVERYTHING laid out for us.
Im convinced lack of iodine supplementation is the likely reason for

a. advanced bone resorption (bone loss)
b. Not getting to 100% already

Since adding iodine daily I have very little to no fatigue/lethargy, yawning decreased by 90%, and I have better overall mood//motivation.

I can only estimate that other residual side effects will improve with time and consistency. Now its a matter of continuous COMPLETE regimen support to slowly increase the bodies production of hormones and normalization of metabolic functions.

Must follow it 100% to get complete benefits.

I will consider adding calcitonin, rehmmania herb and calcium hydroxyapatite.

The tricky part with adding bone supplementation is to not inhibit your own bodies production of bone metabolism via thyroid gland. The other issue is not knowing if minerals from bones are somehow being diverted to cells, tissue, organs and thereby
clogging them.

I personally will take a conservative approach of taking these only a few days per week while continuing the rest of regimen. I will supplement bone a few weeks and then take a few weeks break(cycle). I will document how Im feeling with the slow bone rebuild.

Hopefully this will help my bones and still let my thyroid continue healing and waking up full production of bone metabolites.

Bones are considered a type of living organ by many in the field of health. Do not underestimate its ability to recover, it is living tissue.

I've also found that using Shea Butter on skin affected areas is VERY helpful in maintaining skin flexibility, youthfulness, wrinkle reduction. It is important to keep these areas "alive" and not ignore them in order to improve recovery results. Dont let the skin die or settle into an undesirable state. You want skin tissue to retain its elasticty in order to adjust with the rest of recovery.

This is pretty much a repeat of everything CD has laid out. Hopefully the outloud meditation/calculation will encourage myself and the forum.

I will update next time with specific body measurements so we can see what progress is achieved every few months.

Oh and before I forget again...
Happy New Year CD!
Wish you all the best in 2020!

Hulk Smash
01-14-2020, 06:44 PM
Left Hand Measurement

Hand length 20 - 20.3 m
Base of hand to edge of middle finger

Width 8.5 m
Palm of hand

Measure taken by contour pencil trace of entire hand. More accurate measures will be taken and shared asap.

Bone loss seems to be only in diameter and not length.

Hulk Smash
01-15-2020, 12:25 PM
OK guys I've updated the BONE LOSS thread to include all info needed to recover bone loss.
Its pretty much the holy grail update to recover bones or make sure you don't lose them or even build on what you already have.

I'll probably be gone again for a while just sticking to the regimen and taking care of business in life. I'm improving and so will everyone.

I'll check in again to update with more links for bone mass increase and my progress.

Hulk Smash
01-15-2020, 05:35 PM
BONE LOSS RECOVERY PROTOCOL - *NEED TO COMPLETE CD'S REGIMEN FIRST*

In PFS, bone loss is possible even if you have normal calcium levels.
It is preventable and reversible.

FOLLOWING THIS PROTOCOL SHOULD MAKE MUSCLES MORE PRONOUNCED, BROADEN SHOULDERS, ENHANCE BIOMECHANICS, BUILD OVERALL BONE MASS, & COULD EVEN INCREASE SOME HEIGHT(from feet bone mass increase).

1. Many guys lost APPOSITIONAL bone mass or will slowly be losing it. APPOSITIONAL means diametric or circumference, NOT LENGTH OR DENSITY.

2. Signs of bone loss are faint lines on forearms, wrists, biceps, chest, collar bone regiion, extra lines on palm of hands and soles of feet, extra wrinkles on face, pain in bones when pressure is applied such as someone squeezing your hand, feet not filling in shoes fully, rings not fitting etc...

3. Bone density is not the same as appositional bone mass. Bone density is the inside of the bone whereas appositional bone is the outer region.

4. Having great bone density doesn't mean one isn't losing bone mass. It means your bones are more resistant to breaking. *CD's regimen primarily builds up bone density and is the vital first step before building appositional mass* "It gets better when you continue after recovery" -CD

5. Bone loss is primarily from the outer layer/surface of the bone, hence bones do not break when lifting, but the shrinking still happens.

MOST LIKELY TRIGGERS OF PFS BONE LOSS

A. Low calcium in blood (consistently found in pfs)

B. Normal levels of calcium only prevent shrinking but will not rebuild bone

C. Low calcium levels in the blood triggers the parathyroid to over-produce osteoclasts (bone cells), that leech calcium from the bones to release into the blood. This is the body going into survival mode thinking there isn't enough calcium for the body. Think of this like when the body burns through fat storage during famine.

D. Lack of impact/shock/sport activity. Sport/schock is what increases the bodies production of osteoblasts (bone building cells). *Swimming and cycling do not build appositional bone mass*

E. *Possibly* Under-active or weak intestines and kidneys may play a role in poor calcium regulation. The herbs and regimen will recover these.

F. Under-active thyroid glands. These help regulate bone metabolism.

*Weight lifting should be the primary sport we engage in during recovery journey. We lack density during crash mode and need Testo and HGH boost to aid in bone and total recovery.*

*Other sports are better practiced after a substantial percentage of recovery has been achieved or there is risk for more appositional bone loss etc.*

HOW TO RECOVER? DO THE REGIMEN FIRST

A. Recover thyroid and parathyroid

B. Recover kidneys and intestines

C. Maintain normal levels of calcium during recovery mode. Then switch to high calcium intake after overall recovery. Do the high calcium along with sport activity. Mix it up dont just lift, you need to shock the skeletal structure from different angles and amount of pressure, engage in football, tennis, basketball, martial arts, boxing etc. This will signal the body to produce osteoblasts, sending the excess calcium to the outer layer of the bones, thus increasing appositional bone mass or thickness.

D. IMPORTANT, after CD's recovery is achieved, its probably best to cycle between high and normal level calcium intake as you practice sport. Ex. One week do high calcium, next week do normal calcium. Do this for one month, then do only normal calcium the next month. Reset and repeat. This is to minimize over-stressing the bodies metabolism and prevent calcium overload which is toxic to organs and cells.

WARNING

*Follow CD's protocol first. It lays the foundation for bone growth to be possible. The herbs speed up the healing of the organs needed for this to work. Doing otherwise is probably a waste of money and time, will make you lose more bone and could further complicate your condition.*

Took me 2-3 years to compile this data. It is likely to be atleast 90% accurate as far as pfs bone issues are concerned. The other 10% could be things missing, not things being incorrect.
Its all based on scientific papers, peer review research, personal observations and private research.

Thank you CD for laying the foundation and encouraging me to continue.

A few source links with more detailed explanation

https://www.coursehero.com/sg/anatomy-and-physiology/factors-affecting-bone-growth-and-remodeling/

https://www.coursehero.com/sg/anatomy-and-physiology/interstitial-and-appositional-growth/

Bone Development Growth | SEER Training (https://training.seer.cancer.gov/anatomy/skeletal/growth.html)

Calcium and calcium supplements: Achieving the right balance - Mayo Clinic
(https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/calcium-supplements/art-20047097)

Please consider adding this to the sticky CD. I think it'd motivate many and give another boost to the guys who've reached 100% already.

Thanks again CD.

Hulk Smash
01-19-2020, 10:35 AM
Do the breathing exercise
Get cortisol in lower end of normal range
That stress signal is confusing many functions in the body
Its a major piece in solving the puzzle.
Get it done.

Bankai9000
01-19-2020, 12:35 PM
You're talking as if it's easy to fix the bodies cortisol issues after PFS crash lol

Hulk Smash
01-22-2020, 08:41 AM
You're talking as if it's easy to fix the bodies cortisol issues after PFS crash lol

lol I say it like that to stay motivated

Cdsnuts
01-23-2020, 03:46 PM
Do the breathing exercise
Get cortisol in lower end of normal range
That stress signal is confusing many functions in the body
Its a major piece in solving the puzzle.
Get it done.

I like this post^^^^^

For some reason I think alot of guys skip out on the breathing exercises. Probably because at first they are difficult to get going. Once you find your groove though, it's a different story.

Keep breathing!!

Hulk Smash
01-26-2020, 01:47 PM
PROGRESS UPDATE:

Energy level rising
Yawing continues to decline
Mood is boosted
Gym gains are steady

Bones feel stronger, less painful.
I take RDA of calcium on gym days. I take a bit less on rest days. This is to not stress my kidneys etc.

Veins are showing and glowing as pre-crash. Comes and goes but more stable everyday.

Hulk Smash
01-26-2020, 03:27 PM
PROGRESS UPDATE:

Energy level rising
Yawing continues to decline
Mood is boosted
Gym gains are steady

Bones feel stronger, less painful.
I take RDA of calcium on gym days. I take a bit less on rest days. This is to not stress my kidneys etc.

Veins are showing and glowing as pre-crash. Comes and goes but more stable everyday.

I also added in chewing through and eating as much bone as possible from the meals I have, in other words I try to eat the entire piece of chicken on my plate. This is very beneficial and keeps the jaw healthy. I leave whatever i cant fully chew through on the plate of course.

Hulk Smash
02-06-2020, 03:35 PM
Rhodiola and Rehmannia are no longer available at Lost Empire?
Anyone know why?
Anyone tried an alternative source with the same or higher quality as LEH?

xxaleksi
02-06-2020, 05:10 PM
Rhodiola and Rehmannia are no longer available at Lost Empire?
Anyone know why?
Anyone tried an alternative source with the same or higher quality as LEH?

I got some Rhodiola from Swanson. Not sure on the quality though.

Michael
05-10-2021, 05:25 PM
Bro did you recover jaw and bone loss?