New Symptoms that keep Worsening

[Konflict]

Past fin/saw palmetto user from 7 years ago who started developing new and worsening symptoms the past few months, and have no idea what is going on.

In the beginning of November I added a vitamin E mixed tocopherols supplement to my regemin that included b complex, vitamin D and a multi. After a few weeks I started feeling like shit and thought it was a stomach flu or virus, and continued use of everything until the first week of December. I had lost 15 lbs without trying during that time but my body was looking leaner with less fat. I had stopped taking them after that.

I wanted to continue trying to look lean and decided to go low carb after Christmas, and continued that diet up until January 15th, with the last week or so of the diet being very low carb (under 30g a day). And for the last 10 days I have developed new and worsening side effects that continue to increase even after stopping all supplements and going to a more balanced diet.

I have seen so many new side effects that I have NEVER had before just within the last 8-9 days. My body is still getting leaner, fat loss, inability to hold ANY water in my entire body which is causing me to be dry everywhere, cannot sweat, have excess urination, really bad depression and brain fog, severely bad bone and joint cracking and pain, muscle twitches, extremely cold, insomnia, really bad constipation (cannot pass a stool without taking Miralax 2x a day), decreased orgasm sensation, always feeling very cold. These symptoms keep getting worse by the day and none are subsiding.

They all seem to point to low estrogen. I have read a few articles on vitamin e and how it can have an Aromatase inhibiting effect, as well as a low carb diet....but to my understanding your estrogen should start raising once you stop anything that blocks it. It seems mine isn't raising at all. Some PFS sufferers seem to not be able to raise their androgens at all, but it seems I have done that to my ability to Aromatase....at least that's my take on it.

I am really frightened and have no idea what is going on. I have some blood work I'm waiting for and will post anything I get, but we know blood work with PSF sufferers doesn't always show the whole story. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this where it seems ones estrogen is permanently stuck on low or empty? I have had a few suggestions of pregnenolone, and may try 5htp for my mental and sleep (have only slept about 2 hours a night every day since the symptoms came up)....but want to see the blood work and hear from some people here who know a lot more about hormones than I do. Any advice or input would be extremely appreciated.

[xxLUK]

what you're experiencing is called candida die off you moron, it's completely normal and it's a good sign

"Candida die off symptoms are devastating: brain fog, fever, depression, joint and muscle pain, headache, bloating, constipation, fatigue, yeast infections, acne and many other discomforts. A common misconception about candida die off symptoms is that having them is a sign that the treatment is working."

you're not eating enough fats [removed unkind comment].

also why are you still talking about hormones? it's almost like your brain refuses to retain any information people give you. the low carb diet is starving your candida in turn, releasing toxins. When you get too many toxins released at once, it overwhelms your liver and you get all these symptoms you're getting right now. It's a fucking good thing and you need to ride it out, stop acting like a moron and stick to your diet and add more fat to it. If you're going to come to this forum quit solvepfs and never go back, stop dipping in and out of forums annoying people, I hate people who pull this shit.

Everything you're going through right now is a POSITIVE. For you to say you've never experienced this in your 6 or 7 years shows something is definitely working...

[Konflict]

Dude you are so disrespectful, I know what I'm experience and would appreciate it if you didn't call everyone an idiot who doesn't think candida is the cause for PFS

[xxLUK]

that's not why i'm disrespectful, the reason i'm annoyed by you is because you tell me you agree with me, i try and help you and then next thing you do literally within the same day is sit there asking a bunch of other people for help in regards to hormones etc. I spoke with you for 40 minutes on the phone and you pull this kind of shit. You just waste peoples time and that is why im showing you disrespect.

You enjoy the mental masturbation of all this, that's great..... just don't bring it on to this forum, it's fucking annoying, rot in the pfs forums if you're going to act like such a moron

[delsolrob]

@Konflict, welcome to SwoleSource!


I did a quick look at the chat box and some posts. Please be patient and follow forum etiquette.

There is a ton of information here and people are generally happy to help...but, you will need some patience.

@xxLUK, I know things can get frustrating when you're trying to help someone...but, we do need to keep things friendly here on the forum.

[Konflict]

@Konflict, welcome to SwoleSource!


I did a quick look at the chat box and some posts. Please be patient and follow forum etiquette.

There is a ton of information here and people are generally happy to help...but, you will need some patience.

@xxLUK, I know things can get frustrating when you're trying to help someone...but, we do need to keep things friendly here on the forum.


Thank you for the reply. I'm sorry for acting really anxious here, it's just these symptoms are scary.....especially the accelerating bone cracking/pain and fat loss. I know how important estrogen is to bone health (and living In general) and am just looking for any kind of answers. I've lost my gyno and a few inches off my waist in the matter of days so that's why I'm in particularly nervous about this as it keeps going.

[Konflict]

I still have about 10 more tests coming back, but here's something I received today:

TSH: 2.75 uIu/mL
T3 Free: 3.55 PG/mL
DHEA: 213.6 uG/dL
Estradiol: 18 PG/mL
Testosterone: 341.27 NG/dL
Vitamin D3: 45 ng/mL
Prolactin: 10.4 NG/mL
Glucose: 101 MG/dl
A1c: 5.1%

Sodium: 136 MMOL/L
Potassium: 4.2 MMOL/L
Chloride: 99 MMOL/L
C02: 30 MMOL/L
BUN: 8 MG/dL
Creatinine: 0.8 MG/dL

[TubZy]

Estrogen is good? That is like mid range..mine was around the same when I tested it a few months ago? Not sure why you keep blaming low E? TSH is high, I would try to get it under 1.0 and also test is low.

If you just listened to any of the advice you were given you could be making improvements instead of just randomly diagnosing yourself everyday which shows you were totally wrong anyway.

[Konflict]

I know and feel the symptoms I'm experience, and as someone who used fin we know our blood tests don't always show the true story of what's going on, many of us have normal ranges with very bad symptoms....that's why none of us can really get treatment or help with this.

I feel I have PFS but with Aromatase now, to go along with the androgen PFS .

[Maxout777]

I know and feel the symptoms I'm experience, and as someone who used fin we know our blood tests don't always show the true story of what's going on, many of us have normal ranges with very bad symptoms....that's why none of us can really get treatment or help with this.

I feel I have PFS but with Aromatase now, to go along with the androgen PFS .

Bro, you don't have to explain the situation to any of us. We all know, we've been there. And now we're better. Would you like to get where we are or would you prefer to lurk 24/7 on Solve PFS and see who has the worst symptoms and is the most fucked and is going to die soon, etc., etc?

Your post would appear to sound as if you've already given up. You post here asking for advice but when someone gives it to you, you ignore it and then say "well I feel this way so it must be this way and I know what I'm doing". More power to you if that's the case, but if you're really wanting to improve you're going to have to get off the excuse train and start the grind. The quicker you start, the closer you'll get to being better.

[Konflict]

The thing is there was a guy on the PFS sites named QuantumFaith faith who experienced both androgen and estrogen PFS, and his body totally fell apart he went from a 220 lbs young man to a vegetable and died within a year of these symptoms. I have the exact same early symptoms he did.

And look, I know I'm very anxious and seem like I'm not taking any advice.....I am taking the advice in, but I'd like more than just one persons opinion on what they think would be best to treat this. It's always best to have multiple sources or opinions before jumping into something.

And again I'm sorry, my intentions aren't to be lurking, I'm just very nervous about this and want to determine the best way to treat this moving forward. I made this thread so I wouldn't have to take up the chat box.

[Konflict]

And articles like this are what prevents me from just taking something, especially the pregnenolone if my Aromatase isn't correcting on its own like it should:

Neuroprotection by the steroids pregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone is mediated by the enzyme aromatase. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12918023)

"Pregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) are sex hormone precursors and neuroprotective steroids. Effects of pregnenolone and DHEA may be in part mediated by their conversion to testosterone and by the consecutive conversion of testosterone to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase. This enzyme is induced in reactive astrocytes after different forms of neurodegenerative lesions and the resultant local production of estradiol in the brain has been shown to be neuroprotective. The participation of aromatase in the neuroprotective effect of pregnenolone and DHEA has been assessed in this study. The protective effect of different doses (12.5, 25, 50, and 100 mg/kg) of pregnenolone or DHEA, against systemic kainic acid (7 mg/kg b.w.), was assessed on hippocampal hilar neurons in gonadectomized Wistar male rats. To determine whether the neuroprotective effect of pregnenolone and DHEA was dependent on their conversion to estradiol, the aromatase inhibitor fadrozole (4.16 mg/ml) was administered using subcutaneous osmotic minipumps. The number of Nissl-stained neurons in the hilus of the dentate gyrus of the hippocampal formation was estimated by the optical disector method. The administration of kainic acid resulted in a significant decrease in the number of hilar neurons compared to rats injected with vehicles. Pregnenolone and DHEA showed a dose-dependent protective effect of hilar neurons against kainic acid. The administration of the aromatase inhibitor fadrozole blocked the neuroprotective effect of pregnenolone and DHEA. These findings suggest that estradiol formation by aromatase mediates neuroprotective effects of pregnenolone and DHEA against excitotoxic-induced neuronal death in the hippocampus."

[Maxout777]

Multiple opinions are only worthwhile if they are positive, helpful opinions. Feeding off negativity on the "PFS forums" and comparing yourself to someone who "had the worst case ever" is not going to benefit you at all.

I PROMISE you my advice and the other guys residing on this board give you advice that will only benefit you. Constantly overanalyzing everything like your last post is only going to make you worse.

It's your choice my man, either man up and do it or go try something else. You can't sit on the fence and get anywhere in life.

[Hulk Smash]

Konflict:

Are you on the path to recover or tell us the theories, studies and pain most of us here know from experience?
This is a place for healing and of the healed.

This place should be motivating you; the proof is in the recovery and growth from everyone here.
Its why I'm here and not somewhere else.

I hope you snap out of it...

[Konflict]

I'm here because a lot of people here know about the finasteride side effects and how they effect your body. I'm not exactly looking for the same answers as most of you (how to increase androgens) I'm looking if there's a way to increase Aromatase and what theories there are as to why mine is staying low when I'm currently not taking any form of AI.

Like I said I know I'm anxious, but I'm treating everyone with respect and just looking for advice on this particular case. It's not the exact same as if I took an AI while on a TRT supplement, it's just plain and simply not reverting back in terms of my symptoms.

[Maxout777]

I'm here because a lot of people here know about the finasteride side effects and how they effect your body. I'm not exactly looking for the same answers as most of you (how to increase androgens) I'm looking if there's a way to increase Aromatase and what theories there are as to why mine is staying low when I'm currently not taking any form of AI.

Like I said I know I'm anxious, but I'm treating everyone with respect and just looking for advice on this particular case. It's not the exact same as if I took an AI while on a TRT supplement, it's just plain and simply not reverting back in terms of my symptoms.

Your estrogen is fine and your testosterone is low. Even with low T you're not going to have much estrogen. Estrogen will naturally rise as you increase T.

But seriously dude your estrogen is if anything, HIGH for that low of test. You NEED to increase androgens as much as anyone else here. But do what you must.....You sound like a man hell bent on the road you're on. Your estrogen level would not be at that level if you had some form of aromatase PFS or whatever you're calling it.

Seriously my man, listen to the advice these guys are giving you. We know what we're talking about.

[Konflict]

Your estrogen is fine and your testosterone is low. Even with low T you're not going to have much estrogen. Estrogen will naturally rise as you increase T.

But seriously dude your estrogen is if anything, HIGH for that low of test. You NEED to increase androgens as much as anyone else here. But do what you must.....You sound like a man hell bent on the road you're on. Your estrogen level would not be at that level if you had some form of aromatase PFS or whatever you're calling it.

Seriously my man, listen to the advice these guys are giving you. We know what we're talking about.

I appreciate the help I seriously do, I'm in a depressed state of mind right now. So would T levels this low have someone showing signs of low E as well? I'm not very educated on all this just what I've been looking up the past few weeks.

[Maxout777]

I appreciate the help I seriously do, I'm in a depressed state of mind right now. So would T levels this low have someone showing signs of low E as well? I'm not very educated on all this just what I've been looking up the past few weeks.

I'm far from an endocrinologist myself, but I would imagine that low E would come from low T as well given that it converts from it.

FWIW, I had the low E symptoms after crashing too, my T was in the 300's. As that went up, those dry joint dry skin, weak feeling hurting bones type symptoms went away as well. So I have no doubt that would get better for you if you follow the regimen.

[TubZy]

I know and feel the symptoms I'm experience, and as someone who used fin we know our blood tests don't always show the true story of what's going on, many of us have normal ranges with very bad symptoms....that's why none of us can really get treatment or help with this.

I feel I have PFS but with Aromatase now, to go along with the androgen PFS .

OK, so I still have no idea what answers you are looking for from anyone on here? We told you what do a million times. Increasing T would help level out whatever you are missing and help get things back in order. Getting TSH down would help thyroid and therefore also help bring up T and androgens. T also antagonizes cortisol so if you have low T you most likely have high cortisol too which comes with a host of all shitty effects (mental and physical).

[Konflict]

I'm just trying to keep open minded as to what's going on man, that's all. I have a few more tests I got back tonight I'll post them below. So in terms of suggestions, you think that pregnenolone and possible a thyroid med such as Cytomel would benefit me the most? It honestly seems I have a mix of hypo and hyper symptoms, so I wouldn't be sure which thyroid med to take since me t3 is fairly high already.

New tests:

Total estrogens: 88 pg/mL 60 - 190 pg/mL
Free testosterone: 62.7 pg/mL 46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL

[userpff]

Go to the gym a couple times a week. Start running outside every day (mainly interval). Eay lots of cruciferous vegetables. All simple advice you can implement safely without any medication to raise androgens, you will feel better within one week. just stop panicking and going to these sites it will do you no good.

[Hulk Smash]

I'm new here Konflict but so far just from juice feasting I've had improvements.
I no longer have anxiety, depression or emotional numbness.
My mind is so much clearer and able to focus on the path ahead.
Just based on these improvements, I'll continue following the guidance
I've gotten here to recover. I strongly suggest you do the same.

[TubZy]

I'm just trying to keep open minded as to what's going on man, that's all. I have a few more tests I got back tonight I'll post them below. So in terms of suggestions, you think that pregnenolone and possible a thyroid med such as Cytomel would benefit me the most? It honestly seems I have a mix of hypo and hyper symptoms, so I wouldn't be sure which thyroid med to take since me t3 is fairly high already.

New tests:

Total estrogens: 88 pg/mL 60 - 190 pg/mL
Free testosterone: 62.7 pg/mL 46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL

No I would not start on cynomel now. For thyroid- pregnenolone, coconut oil, 5a-DHP, eliminate polyunsaturated fats as much as possible, eat meats and fruits and also potatoes/white rice (gluten free). If your T is that low, adding a small amount of DHEA could help and bring down cortisol.

Add in the CD's herb cycle, that will boost both T and thyroid at the same time. Go to the gym and start working out consistently. After you do all that for a while then you could look at other options.

[Grape Ape]

I would really be interested in your bloodwork after/durring the herb cycle.

[Swill]

konflict, just echoing what some of the other guys here are saying... you seem hell bent on looking for a pharma silver bullet that doesn't exist. If you're new to these health issues then I get it can be daunting and you just want things to go back to normal... before I came across the method of healing that CD promoted I tried everything short of TRT practically in the first year, and was in a state of panic. I travelled the globe to seek help from endo's that all tried variations on the same bullshit and couldn't help me at all.

Long story short, I wish i'd come across information and a positive environment like this in the first place.

Leave those other bullshit forums full of people wanting to compare how fucked up they are, how you need to take 6 million meds to try and mask symptoms and collude in the illusion that you can't get better and will only get worse from this shit. Change your mindset and focus on making positive changes to start getting better, which WILL happen with time... not as quick as you want it to, but with time. Don't dwell on your bloods so much, they dont have a magic answer, as if they did this would be easy to fix. Whole body healing using natural methods is the ONLY way to go.

Anyway... cut the 'but I'm really depressed and anxious' stuff, we've all been there and we get it, but now its time to ditch that shit and start making things better for yourself. Or dont. But don't expect us to humour a pity party like the other boards and go round in circles about how fucked up you can be from this stuff. That isn't what this board is about.

All the information is here, some of most intelligent people I know are here. Use it.

[Konflict]

If pregnenolone is the path I take, as it seems the most safe regarding hormonal supplementation, would oral be the safest approach? Any specific brands or products anyone recommends? I have a Dr appointment on Thursday and will discuss it with them.

Also regarding the herb cycle, what would be the most logical things to try first? Again I've never taken anything hormonal or done any sort of cycling ever.....just always been a regular gym guy.

[Snell1234]

Konflict, get on Cdnuts regime.

It's all there so I don't need to add anything to that.

My one bit of advice - stop masturbating (if you are). For me, stopping masturbation is allowing my body to heal. There is research that ejaculation causes androgen receptors to decrease in density. It takes 3 days apparently for them to restore, but if you sexually exhaust yourself by doing this too often for many years, it will take time for your body to get back to normal (a few months or more even).

It's funny that some people think if you increase your androgen receptors, eventually you will increase your testosterone.

Anyway, good luck.

[xxLUK]

I'm new here Konflict but so far just from juice feasting I've had improvements.
I no longer have anxiety, depression or emotional numbness.
My mind is so much clearer and able to focus on the path ahead.
Just based on these improvements, I'll continue following the guidance
I've gotten here to recover. I strongly suggest you do the same.

oh my god how long did it take for you to get rid of the emotional numbness? i am so happy for you and inspired, that is the main thing that is annoying the sht out of me.

ALSO, konflict has had PFS for 6 years, its nothing new to him. Hes perpetually stuck in a warp like most guys with PFS who never recover, he is set on hormonal route. Hope he sees the light some day

[Konflict]

Well I'm so worked up recently because of the new symptoms and how my head is feeling, probably low serotonin. But I'm trying to remain as calm as possible. I have a Dr appointment Thursday, so I'll discuss pregnenolone with hi as he was telling me about the possibility of it in the past.

Anything else I should ask him about?.....like more specific blood work or any other possible prescription supplements? I get free prescriptions being on a low income medical so it would save me money if I can get anything through the Dr and not be forced to pay out of pocket.

[TubZy]

Well I'm so worked up recently because of the new symptoms and how my head is feeling, probably low serotonin. But I'm trying to remain as calm as possible. I have a Dr appointment Thursday, so I'll discuss pregnenolone with hi as he was telling me about the possibility of it in the past.

Anything else I should ask him about?.....like more specific blood work or any other possible prescription supplements? I get free prescriptions being on a low income medical so it would save me money if I can get anything through the Dr and not be forced to pay out of pocket.

ASk him to test for preg and progesterone as many PFS ppl have been tested and they were dangerously low. Also, your cholesterol too.

[Konflict]

Thanks dude I'll make sure to demand those, maybe even cortisol but I'm not sure how accurate blood is compared to saliva and plus the fluctuations during the day.

[Maxout777]

Well I'm so worked up recently because of the new symptoms and how my head is feeling, probably low serotonin. But I'm trying to remain as calm as possible. I have a Dr appointment Thursday, so I'll discuss pregnenolone with hi as he was telling me about the possibility of it in the past.

Anything else I should ask him about?.....like more specific blood work or any other possible prescription supplements? I get free prescriptions being on a low income medical so it would save me money if I can get anything through the Dr and not be forced to pay out of pocket.

I really promise I'm not trying to be an asshole here, my man, but do you read the posts you make? Literally every one of them you've got some new idea regarding what's wrong or you "think" it's some other hormone or neurotransmitter/neurosteroid that's low.....you're looking way too far into this. Try something to treat this as a whole instead of playing whack-a-mole with what could possibly be wrong with you.

I'll say this again, I REALLY think a juice feast for a week or two would do you wonders to get your system clean and responsive to things. I myself wasted tons of money in the first two months of having this condition with doctors, only to be left with "it's in your head" or "there's nothing else we can do for you".....and throwing Rx's back in your system that's already broken and compromised is just going to further complicate your situation.

Simplify your concerns, and simplify your problems and treat it as an overarching condition, not underlying "possible causes".

[TubZy]

I really promise I'm not trying to be an asshole here, my man, but do you read the posts you make? Literally every one of them you've got some new idea regarding what's wrong or you "think" it's some other hormone or neurotransmitter/neurosteroid that's low.....you're looking way too far into this. Try something to treat this as a whole instead of playing whack-a-mole with what could possibly be wrong with you.

I'll say this again, I REALLY think a juice feast for a week or two would do you wonders to get your system clean and responsive to things. I myself wasted tons of money in the first two months of having this condition with doctors, only to be left with "it's in your head" or "there's nothing else we can do for you".....and throwing Rx's back in your system that's already broken and compromised is just going to further complicate your situation.

Simplify your concerns, and simplify your problems and treat it as an overarching condition, not underlying "possible causes".

Agreed. He keeps referring to his "doctors" orders too like I can't take this or can't that that (like herbs and bio identical hormones). Sorry to say a doctor can't help you with PFS so stop listening to him. PFS in the first place should tell you docs don't know shit and you have had PFS for 6 years right? And you are still "listening" to the doctor- come on man. You have to be your own doctor.

Believe me I have been to over 10 doctors and wasted boat loads of money on blood tests which didn't do shit for me in the past besides confusing me more. I didn't start actually making improvements until I stopped going to the doctor and experimented with stuff based on how I felt...

[Hulk Smash]

oh my god how long did it take for you to get rid of the emotional numbness? i am so happy for you and inspired, that is the main thing that is annoying the sht out of me.

ALSO, konflict has had PFS for 6 years, its nothing new to him. Hes perpetually stuck in a warp like most guys with PFS who never recover, he is set on hormonal route. Hope he sees the light some day

My emotional numbness started back around october of 2015 but it was very slight.
It fluctuated up until total crash october of 2016.
It was about a 3 month battle of total numbness. I noticed improvements when I did some
water fasting and more improvements with the juice feasting(mostly green juices).
This was about a 3 week period.

Right now I'd like to say I'm 100% recovered from anxiety and numbness but I feel there may be
another 10-25%. I will say this; I'm so grateful that I enjoy watching a movie, can hear a song in my
head, laugh and smile once again.

Keep it up xxLUK you'll get it all back one day.

[Konflict]

Like I said, I'm getting my blood work and meds from the add for free because I really cannot afford to pay out of pocket for many things.....I'm on a FREE low income medical insurance from the state. I'm trying to get the pregnenolone out of him because he mentioned it back in December and I have been recommended it here.....so why pay I of pocket for these things when I can get them free?

Yes, I've had some PFS symptoms for 6 years now, but nothing on the level I'm experience the last few weeks which is why I'm so anxious. And I'm sorry for it, but these symptoms aren't all classic PFS symptoms because I'm actually losing weight and looking more fit than I have these 6 years (not to mention many sides of, yes I'll say it again, low estrogen).

I am taking advice before it goes back to that, I'm trying to get the pregnenolone (free from insurance via prescription), even asked here which form is best pills or cream. I know doctors do not recognize this disease especially because it doesn't show on blood work, but I have see a Dr in order to keep my insurance so I need to take advantage of the free benefits that goes along with it.m

[Snell1234]

Like I said, I'm getting my blood work and meds from the add for free because I really cannot afford to pay out of pocket for many things.....I'm on a FREE low income medical insurance from the state. I'm trying to get the pregnenolone out of him because he mentioned it back in December and I have been recommended it here.....so why pay I of pocket for these things when I can get them free?

Yes, I've had some PFS symptoms for 6 years now, but nothing on the level I'm experience the last few weeks which is why I'm so anxious. And I'm sorry for it, but these symptoms aren't all classic PFS symptoms because I'm actually losing weight and looking more fit than I have these 6 years (not to mention many sides of, yes I'll say it again, low estrogen).

I am taking advice before it goes back to that, I'm trying to get the pregnenolone (free from insurance via prescription), even asked here which form is best pills or cream. I know doctors do not recognize this disease especially because it doesn't show on blood work, but I have see a Dr in order to keep my insurance so I need to take advantage of the free benefits that goes along with it.m

You risk making yourself worse by taking pregnenolone. Have you started Cdnut's regime? If you haven't, why would you take this now?

Get on his regime, do not masturbate, and watch the results unfold.

[tallstraw]

Just don't jerk off in general. Once i stopped jerking off, my life in many facets got better..and I've never had PFS. I just have to try and hold out for more than a minute lol. xD. They're always impressed with the rope though lol

Foreal though, stop jerking off is like one of the best things I've done. Like a once every few weeks thing for me.

[Konflict]

You risk making yourself worse by taking pregnenolone. Have you started Cdnut's regime? If you haven't, why would you take this now?

Get on his regime, do not masturbate, and watch the results unfold.


I was recommended it by tubzy, as well as my Dr before all these symptoms arose.

[Snell1234]

I was recommended it by tubzy.

With respect to people recommending things, you will see Cdnuts recommends nothing of the sort, nor does English. Stick to the one regime - the one regime which has been proven to work!

[Konflict]

I had worked out naturally 3-4 days a week for years up until these new symptoms, I'm serious about the bone/joint pain and cracking, I can barely raise my arms for 20 seconds without feeling pain and fatigued.

Can anyone provide me a link to English's regemin? I see CDs but not English and would like to take a look.

[Hulk Smash]

Konflict:

Keep in mind that EVERYONE(except you) here is on the regimen.
Meaning you probably won't make much progress or you may even get worse if you only take prescriptions.
Consider the fact that your body is suddenly getting worse after all these years.
Most likely all your feedback loops/receptors/pathways were in limbo the entire time.


All the lasting recoveries have followed the regimen, why not try it?

You can place buckets under a leaking roof. Or you can get off your ass and fix it.

[Betweenjobs]

Good luck with your battle konflict . I too have been finding that my pfs symptoms are getting worse. Stay strong and healthy . I'm starting thread to share my story. You might find it helpful

[xxLUK]

Yes, I've had some PFS symptoms for 6 years now, but nothing on the level I'm experience the last few weeks which is why I'm so anxious. And I'm sorry for it, but these symptoms aren't all classic PFS symptoms because I'm actually losing weight and looking more fit than I have these 6 years (not to mention many sides of, yes I'll say it again, low estrogen).


lmao this guy is saying he is experiencing symptoms of low E yet so many other factors can play into the fact you're experiencing these symptoms. Many deficiencys mimic each other, your E isn't low enough to make this happen, something else is giving you these symptoms,. Follow the regime and stop being such a beta. You don't have what quantamblablabla had, play around with pharma grade AIs and hormones you soon will ;) he was severely fucked.

Your thyroid is probably under active, have you shown your TSH, when my TSH was 3.7 my bones were click clacking, i was worse than how you're describing lol. i think you need to learn more about how your hormones work and what is responsible for their regulation other than just regurgitating nonsense you read here and there posted by halfwits on a glorified human male castration board. Stop asking for help and ignoring and stating nonsense you make up or read some other moron blurting about.

[Konflict]

Can anyone show me where English's routine/regemin are on the site? I'd like to take a look at his as well.

[Konflict]

Good luck with your battle konflict . I too have been finding that my pfs symptoms are getting worse. Stay strong and healthy . I'm starting thread to share my story. You might find it helpful

Thanks man I'm trying to remain positive, these symptoms are pretty scary no matter what is causing it as I've never had any like this in 6 plus years. Good luck to you as well on ur recovery.

[Swill]

Can anyone show me where English's routine/regemin are on the site? I'd like to take a look at his as well.

You're really not listening to a word bro. English did pretty much the same thing as CD did. Same as all the other guys here pretty much, all of whom are getting results.

I really think you should decide if the methods on this board are for you or not and if not, then thats cool and all the best but dont waste your time.

EVERYTHING you need to know is right here, stop looking for the silver bullet and obsessing on what you think is low E etc.

[Konflict]

Once again I'll be the one to keep it respectful....I never said anything about having low E for sure, I thought I may have had it and said I have many symptoms of it which crept up on me quick. If I can't question and give my symptoms or opinions here then what is the point of the site? Just to tell everyone "get on CDs regimen and quit complaining"??? I mean holy shit where is the respect for others?

I'm not very knowledgeable in hormonal management, which is WHY I'm here in the first place, to learn about what I may be able to do and to see what would benefit ME the most. I've met a few good people here though so I keep returning.

[Maxout777]

Once again I'll be the one to keep it respectful....I never said anything about having low E for sure, I thought I may have had it and said I have many symptoms of it which crept up on me quick. If I can't question and give my symptoms or opinions here then what is the point of the site? Just to tell everyone "get on CDs regimen and quit complaining"??? I mean holy shit where is the respect for others?

I'm not very knowledgeable in hormonal management, which is WHY I'm here in the first place, to learn about what I may be able to do and to see what would benefit ME the most. I've met a few good people here though so I keep returning.
My man that's because the answer is the same. My answer will ALWAYS be the same. Regardless of your symptoms.

And we're keeping it respectful, I've never once hit you with any disrespect. This board is not a Propecia board, it just happens to have a section for it. This is mainly, not all, but mainly due to CD residing here and him being willing to help people, so the majority of the people here are going to either be on his regimen, or slowly trying to get to the point of being on it full speed.

You came here for an answer, and myself and others have given you one. Trying to alleve or cure individual symptoms is wasting time my man....Just start doing the right steps and these individual symptoms will fade away, one at a time, until all of a sudden, you're good ole you again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[xxLUK]

just giving u a reality check to stop being such a beta bro, no disrespect

[Konflict]

Do Very Low-Carb Diets Mess Up Some Womens Hormones? (https://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb-and-womens-hormones/)

Yes this is an article on women, but it still mentions some of the side effects a keto diet can give you.

[t14]

The thing is there was a guy on the PFS sites named QuantumFaith faith who experienced both androgen and estrogen PFS, and his body totally fell apart he went from a 220 lbs young man to a vegetable and died within a year of these symptoms. I have the exact same early symptoms he did.

And look, I know I'm very anxious and seem like I'm not taking any advice.....I am taking the advice in, but I'd like more than just one persons opinion on what they think would be best to treat this. It's always best to have multiple sources or opinions before jumping into something.

And again I'm sorry, my intentions aren't to be lurking, I'm just very nervous about this and want to determine the best way to treat this moving forward. I made this thread so I wouldn't have to take up the chat box.

Quantumfaith died because he killed himself. Don't want to be him? Then don't obsess over symptoms and what pathways you think are broken. Patiently hack away at the root cause and take care of the mental side of things while you do it.

[Konflict]

Quantumfaith died because he killed himself. Don't want to be him? Then don't obsess over symptoms and what pathways you think are broken. Patiently hack away at the root cause and take care of the mental side of things while you do it.

I know he did, but his body was in BAD shape....and I'm just connecting all the dots of supplements I've took recently, diets I've done recently, and it points to the same thing he had. Not to say it is for sure, but I can't be close minded and say it's 100% not what he had. I posted that link about the damage one can do to their HPA/HPT from doing a very low carb diet....shows it can fuck up hormonal production. I went from very tolerable PFS symptoms to the extreme.

I'm currently doing the nofap, eating a pretty balanced diet, taking D3 and vitamin C still, but haven't gotten on any herbs yet....can't really afford ALL of them and don't know which would be the best ones (preferably ones that aren't AI so I can determine my low E receptor theory). Was lifting 3 days a week for years even while having my original PFS symptoms...but this bone/joint pain had intensified so bad in 3 weeks I literally can't right now. Taking marine collagen peptides that contain glycine which is a 5ar activator, so hopefully this can help with my symptoms.

I know many of the symptoms I have can be from a number if things.....adrenals, thyroid, heavy metal toxicity, low 5ar, but the thing is I'm losing fat and getting incredibly tone AFTER stopping the keto. Never been this tone in my life even pre fin when I was decently beastly, so that's why I keep coming back to low E receptors. Also having changes in body odor, increased flaccid size, large increase in acne, and my gyno is pretty much non existent now. Unless anyone knows of another reason why one would lose fat/water weight continuously after stopping a diet like that? It's stumping me...

Also my sleep is completely fucked. Getting 2-3 hours of sleep a night, having very lucid dreams....I guess my serotonin is depleted? Anything anyone takes to help improve sleep?

[Hulk Smash]

Change in body odor, increased size, increased acne, losing fat, etc...

Maybe you're going through puberty AGAIN!

Soon your balls might drop lower than before and your voice will get deeper.

[Maxout777]

I know he did, but his body was in BAD shape....and I'm just connecting all the dots of supplements I've took recently, diets I've done recently, and it points to the same thing he had. Not to say it is for sure, but I can't be close minded and say it's 100% not what he had. I posted that link about the damage one can do to their HPA/HPT from doing a very low carb diet....shows it can fuck up hormonal production. I went from very tolerable PFS symptoms to the extreme.

I'm currently doing the nofap, eating a pretty balanced diet, taking D3 and vitamin C still, but haven't gotten on any herbs yet....can't really afford ALL of them and don't know which would be the best ones (preferably ones that aren't AI so I can determine my low E receptor theory). Was lifting 3 days a week for years even while having my original PFS symptoms...but this bone/joint pain had intensified so bad in 3 weeks I literally can't right now. Taking marine collagen peptides that contain glycine which is a 5ar activator, so hopefully this can help with my symptoms.

I know many of the symptoms I have can be from a number if things.....adrenals, thyroid, heavy metal toxicity, low 5ar, but the thing is I'm losing fat and getting incredibly tone AFTER stopping the keto. Never been this tone in my life even pre fin when I was decently beastly, so that's why I keep coming back to low E receptors. Also having changes in body odor, increased flaccid size, large increase in acne, and my gyno is pretty much non existent now. Unless anyone knows of another reason why one would lose fat/water weight continuously after stopping a diet like that? It's stumping me...

Also my sleep is completely fucked. Getting 2-3 hours of sleep a night, having very lucid dreams....I guess my serotonin is depleted? Anything anyone takes to help improve sleep?
Why do you continue to reflect on him? He isn't you and his decisions and his fate are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to yourself and what you are going through. I say with 100% certainty that a low carb diet did NOT cause a degenerative muscle tissue condition. Your system is out of whack and isn't working and you're not doing anything to bring it back to where it needs to be, and somehow you appear shocked that things keep getting worse? C'mon man, you've been riding the carousel for the last two weeks and if you would've just started a juice feast when it was suggested to you, you would be done with it and probably feeling a ton better. Instead you're still getting worse......This will be my last post on your topic because obviously you couldn't care less about what someone who's been in your place and is better now has to advise to you, and I guess I just don't see the point in you asking for help here just to tell us we're full of shit, essentially.

You're the author of your book.....Not myself, not CD, not QuantumFaith, but YOU. Time to start writing, my man.

[tallstraw]

I love when people come in and think they're the special snowflake in every situation. If you've followed this forum at all on this issue, it should been beat so bad even the subatomic particles of this horse don't exist anymore. You don't need others opinions. Just do what the god damn guide tells you, to a T if possible..and reevaluate after a few months. It's that simple big boy.

[Konflict]

Change in body odor, increased size, increased acne, losing fat, etc...

Maybe you're going through puberty AGAIN!

Soon your balls might drop lower than before and your voice will get deeper.


Hey man I only speak the truth....I mean I could post pics and what not but I doubt anyone would believe me here.

So you truly believe I'm making these things up...,right?

[Konflict]

Why do you continue to reflect on him? He isn't you and his decisions and his fate are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to yourself and what you are going through. I say with 100% certainty that a low carb diet did NOT cause a degenerative muscle tissue condition. Your system is out of whack and isn't working and you're not doing anything to bring it back to where it needs to be, and somehow you appear shocked that things keep getting worse? C'mon man, you've been riding the carousel for the last two weeks and if you would've just started a juice feast when it was suggested to you, you would be done with it and probably feeling a ton better. Instead you're still getting worse......This will be my last post on your topic because obviously you couldn't care less about what someone who's been in your place and is better now has to advise to you, and I guess I just don't see the point in you asking for help here just to tell us we're full of shit, essentially.

You're the author of your book.....Not myself, not CD, not QuantumFaith, but YOU. Time to start writing, my man.


Someone else brought him up just a few hours ago, not me. I mean shit I never once discredited anyone....but I get it here, it's alpha only or ur treated different.

I could give a fuck if people don't like my "complaining" I don't give a shit about public image or social image, I'm trying to figure everything out before I jump into anything.....I mean really this is the FINASTERIDE section in MY TOPIC. If I'm not allowed to post what I feel is necessary then just tell me and I'll go elsewhere.

If someone who recovered told you eating dog shit would help you recover would you just go into ur neighbors yard and dig in? I mean use some logic, at least I'm trying to. I've posted proof about metabolic damage via low carb, how vitamin E can fuck up estrogen synthesis, how I'm getting these symptoms and body changes, but y'all wanna discredit everything becuase I'm super anxious and "not listening" to every piece of advice? Smh I'm truly disappointed in humanity for being so impatient and wanting to just be the ones with all the answers.

If I'm not welcome here just tell me....I never said once (which y'all continue to look over) I'm not going to start these protocols....do I have a timeframe I need to start them? And no one can answer me why I'm losing fat and water when almost everyone gains and gets fat? You think I'm making this up? I mean really, after my first few posts I was deemed an outcast. it doesn't really matter what I post cause I'll still be fucked with. I even fucking asked what herbs I should get....how is that not taking advice wtf?

[Konflict]

I love when people come in and think they're the special snowflake in every situation. If you've followed this forum at all on this issue, it should been beat so bad even the subatomic particles of this horse don't exist anymore. You don't need others opinions. Just do what the god damn guide tells you, to a T if possible..and reevaluate after a few months. It's that simple big boy.

You never know bro, I could be that special snowflake, its NOT impossible.....but I guess to you guys it is? Again no one has answered my why I'm losing fat while at the same time getting fucked up joint/bone pain and cracking, total body dehydration, etc.

Y'all seem somewhat stumped if you ask me.....as am I. So the only answer to every single question/topic here is to follow the protocol I guess....

[Konflict]

And again I'll ask, what works good for insomnia for people here with PFS? And what are some of the better herbs to try for a cycle? Again I can't afford all of them like some of you may be able to....

[Maxout777]

You never know bro, I could be that special snowflake, its NOT impossible.....but I guess to you guys it is? Again no one has answered my why I'm losing fat while at the same time getting fucked up joint/bone pain and cracking, total body dehydration, etc.

Y'all seem somewhat stumped if you ask me.....as am I. So the only answer to every single question/topic here is to follow the protocol I guess....
You're not a special snowflake....I literally told you earlier that I had the same issue after my crash and that it's better now and gave you a way to fix it. How am I stumped? I lost close to twenty lbs, including muscle and fat, and my joints cracked Everytime I walked and sat weird. My skin was dry as shit and flaky in places I've never seen and I was super oily before all of this. I'm not trying to be "alpha" or be an ass, pal....I'm just saying that the same questions over and over again are spinning the proverbial wheel. If you'd read this section of this board at all, you'd find that glycine, ziziphus, and ashwaganda all help with sleep. And as for what herbs do what best, that's going to have to be trial and error on your part to see how your body reacts to them. My favorites may not be your favorites, same with anyone else. Also, please feast or fast prior to trying the herbs, if your system is compromised you will most likely not respond as well as you'd hope.

[ginge1612]

Konflict have you tried cannabis for your sleeping issues? I've used it throughout my fight with PFS. I've been taking L-arginine and if taken to late on an evening I find it makes me sleepy, have also read of other people using it to aid sleep.

[Hulk Smash]

Hey man I only speak the truth....I mean I could post pics and what not but I doubt anyone would believe me here.

So you truly believe I'm making these things up...,right?


Hey man I only speak the truth....I mean I could post pics and what not but I doubt anyone would believe me here.


Why not entertain the possibility that you're going through a form of puberty-like evolution?
You stay thinking on studies and theories so now you can be stuck on this too...

Seriously konflict...what good is it to dissect every theory and study out there?
You're gonna identify your issues and then what?

It seems you've had pfs for years now and you're stuck like this?

Since you love posting studies and theories heres a few ideas...

1. Go write a book about pfs and your struggle.
2. Donate yourself to science and have endless studies done on you and hear their theories all day.


I don't think this place is all about being alpha...Its more like problem/cause/SOLUTION!!
You're alpha if you say you are...WAKE UP!

[Konflict]

Look man, my mental is in a bad state.....I barely sleep, I can't no matter what. Never had brain fog or anything to this level, I apologize for coming at you like that, I do intend on trying this stuff. But you will have to excuse me for being a little worried to starting a new diet, as I really feel a diet is what messed me up to this level of symptoms. I have to caretake for my mother 24/7 as well as dealing with the symptoms, so it puts extra stress on me. I know we all have out issues and stories, just stating I need a little patience before I jump in.

In regards to the juice feast, I see it over on CDs site....can I use any fruits or just the ones he recommends?

- - - Updated - - -


Why not entertain the possibility that you're going through a form of puberty-like evolution?
You stay thinking on studies and theories so now you can be stuck on this too...

Seriously konflict...what good is it to dissect every theory and study out there?
You're gonna identify your issues and then what?

It seems you've had pfs for years now and you're stuck like this?

Since you love posting studies and theories heres a few ideas...

1. Go write a book about pfs and your struggle.
2. Donate yourself to science and have endless studies done on you and hear their theories all day.


I don't think this place is all about being alpha...Its more like problem/cause/SOLUTION!!
You're alpha if you say you are...WAKE UP!


I just don't see the harm in asking others if they've had these symptoms as well? I don't get the hate just for trying to clarify things

[Hulk Smash]

Look man, my mental is in a bad state.....I barely sleep, I can't no matter what. Never had brain fog or anything to this level, I apologize for coming at you like that, I do intend on trying this stuff. But you will have to excuse me for being a little worried to starting a new diet, as I really feel a diet is what messed me up to this level of symptoms. I have to caretake for my mother 24/7 as well as dealing with the symptoms, so it puts extra stress on me. I know we all have out issues and stories, just stating I need a little patience before I jump in.

In regards to the juice feast, I see it over on CDs site....can I use any fruits or just the ones he recommends?

- - - Updated - - -




I just don't see the harm in asking others if they've had these symptoms as well? I don't get the hate just for trying to clarify things


Mental sides were insomnia, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, panic attacks,
lack of emotion and strong tinnitus. Most of these symptoms cleared up when I did a water fast/juice feast.

Most of my juices were spinach, celery, apple, grapefruit, orange, beets, ginger, lime. More green than anything else.
Sticking to the ones CD recommends are a good start and will take out the guess work.

[Konflict]

Mental sides were insomnia, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, panic attacks,
lack of emotion and strong tinnitus. Most of these symptoms cleared up when I did a water fast/juice feast.

Most of my juices were spinach, celery, apple, grapefruit, orange, beets, ginger, lime. More green than anything else.
Sticking to the ones CD recommends are a good start and will take out the guess work.

I used to juice all the time (never feasting though usually just for breakfast) and used a lot of berries and bananas as the fruits with spinach, kale, chords, etc. just wanted to make sure all fruits were acceptable.

I want to put on a few more pounds before I start so my body will handle the juice feast ok, I hit 185 lbs after my crash but have been slowly gaining despite the fat loss, excessive urination and dehydration. But I'm back to about 200 without even working out and I look slim, once I get to 205 I think I'll start it'll at least intend to. I'm a natural 200-220 so I want to feel comfortable enough to prepare for potential weight loss.

[Hulk Smash]

I used to juice all the time (never feasting though usually just for breakfast) and used a lot of berries and bananas as the fruits with spinach, kale, chords, etc. just wanted to make sure all fruits were acceptable.

I want to put on a few more pounds before I start so my body will handle the juice feast ok, I hit 185 lbs after my crash but have been slowly gaining despite the fat loss, excessive urination and dehydration. But I'm back to about 200 without even working out and I look slim, once I get to 205 I think I'll start it'll at least intend to. I'm a natural 200-220 so I want to feel comfortable enough to prepare for potential weight loss.

A few other things that helped me:

Not taking naps during the day. I'd fight to stay awake until it was time to sleep
Sometimes I'd drink some magnesium before bed
No processed sugar and no caffeine
cool showers

you got this Konflict

[5 alpha victim]

Past fin/saw palmetto user from 7 years ago who started developing new and worsening symptoms the past few months, and have no idea what is going on.

In the beginning of November I added a vitamin E mixed tocopherols supplement to my regemin that included b complex, vitamin D and a multi. After a few weeks I started feeling like shit and thought it was a stomach flu or virus, and continued use of everything until the first week of December. I had lost 15 lbs without trying during that time but my body was looking leaner with less fat. I had stopped taking them after that.

I wanted to continue trying to look lean and decided to go low carb after Christmas, and continued that diet up until January 15th, with the last week or so of the diet being very low carb (under 30g a day). And for the last 10 days I have developed new and worsening side effects that continue to increase even after stopping all supplements and going to a more balanced diet.

I have seen so many new side effects that I have NEVER had before just within the last 8-9 days. My body is still getting leaner, fat loss, inability to hold ANY water in my entire body which is causing me to be dry everywhere, cannot sweat, have excess urination, really bad depression and brain fog, severely bad bone and joint cracking and pain, muscle twitches, extremely cold, insomnia, really bad constipation (cannot pass a stool without taking Miralax 2x a day), decreased orgasm sensation, always feeling very cold. These symptoms keep getting worse by the day and none are subsiding.

They all seem to point to low estrogen. I have read a few articles on vitamin e and how it can have an Aromatase inhibiting effect, as well as a low carb diet....but to my understanding your estrogen should start raising once you stop anything that blocks it. It seems mine isn't raising at all. Some PFS sufferers seem to not be able to raise their androgens at all, but it seems I have done that to my ability to Aromatase....at least that's my take on it.

I am really frightened and have no idea what is going on. I have some blood work I'm waiting for and will post anything I get, but we know blood work with PSF sufferers doesn't always show the whole story. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this where it seems ones estrogen is permanently stuck on low or empty? I have had a few suggestions of pregnenolone, and may try 5htp for my mental and sleep (have only slept about 2 hours a night every day since the symptoms came up)....but want to see the blood work and hear from some people here who know a lot more about hormones than I do. Any advice or input would be extremely appreciated.



There is enough info out their that makes it clear Vitamin E mixed tocopherols can reduce estrogen. Its also clear that many PFS guys like myself got worse after reducing estrogen. If I am following your post correctly you got worse only a short time after adding in the vitamin E mixed tocopherols. That makes it pretty obvious that lowering your estrogen was the cause. It's highly unlikely that a low carb diet is the cause of your continued worsening of symptoms expecially when you consider how much worse you got. But that's just my opinion.

With PFS when we take something that makes  us worse sometimes we just don't get better because we stop taking it like normal people do. This happened to me when I took an AI. It put me to a lower level that I was at before I even took it and it took me probable two years go come back to my prior baseline. I would just forget about what happened and when it happened and just stick to the game plan and be careful about trying anything outside Cds normal protocol. Staying away from the blends will probable be a good idea to. If you want B complex and vitamin D just buy them individually.

At the end of the day the herb cycling, eating healthy and working out to include sprints should get your hormones all leveled out. It may take a while but at least it's guaranteed to work. That's really the easy part at this point for me. It's all the evidence that's pointing towards altered nurosteriods and gut inflammation as being major pieces of the puzzle with us that I'm more worried about as this is not as easily as treatable than simply getting your self to have healthy hormone levels naturally at the basic level such as free T, total T, estrogen and DHT.  And again you don't need to take anything to reduce estrogen. That should fix it self once you increase your T naturally over a long period of time.

Just my two cents anyway from a guy still recovering.

[t14]

I used to juice all the time (never feasting though usually just for breakfast) and used a lot of berries and bananas as the fruits with spinach, kale, chords, etc. just wanted to make sure all fruits were acceptable.

I want to put on a few more pounds before I start so my body will handle the juice feast ok, I hit 185 lbs after my crash but have been slowly gaining despite the fat loss, excessive urination and dehydration. But I'm back to about 200 without even working out and I look slim, once I get to 205 I think I'll start it'll at least intend to. I'm a natural 200-220 so I want to feel comfortable enough to prepare for potential weight loss.

I find that when I'm not getting almost a gram of magnesium (split up) and atleast some calcium each day i have the excessive urination and don't hold water, I get those old people veins that don't pop out and feel extremely dry. Oh I also get very bad insomnia.

[Cdsnuts]

Someone else brought him up just a few hours ago, not me. I mean shit I never once discredited anyone....but I get it here, it's alpha only or ur treated different.

I could give a fuck if people don't like my "complaining" I don't give a shit about public image or social image, I'm trying to figure everything out before I jump into anything.....I mean really this is the FINASTERIDE section in MY TOPIC. If I'm not allowed to post what I feel is necessary then just tell me and I'll go elsewhere.

If someone who recovered told you eating dog shit would help you recover would you just go into ur neighbors yard and dig in? I mean use some logic, at least I'm trying to. I've posted proof about metabolic damage via low carb, how vitamin E can fuck up estrogen synthesis, how I'm getting these symptoms and body changes, but y'all wanna discredit everything becuase I'm super anxious and "not listening" to every piece of advice? Smh I'm truly disappointed in humanity for being so impatient and wanting to just be the ones with all the answers.

If I'm not welcome here just tell me....I never said once (which y'all continue to look over) I'm not going to start these protocols....do I have a timeframe I need to start them? And no one can answer me why I'm losing fat and water when almost everyone gains and gets fat? You think I'm making this up? I mean really, after my first few posts I was deemed an outcast. it doesn't really matter what I post cause I'll still be fucked with. I even fucking asked what herbs I should get....how is that not taking advice wtf?

I understand your frustration.....I do.

But it's not like that at all.

We know what works. It has nothing to do with "wanting to have all the answers." I know, 100%, what you should do to get over this. Regardless of symptoms and regardless of duration, the answer is ALWAYS going to be the same. The reason for this is based strictly in natural science/natural hygiene.

This is based upon my own personal experiences and the experiences of others who have done basically the same things to get themselves back.

The issue for most guys here is timeline. It's never fast enough for them. That being said, it's guaranteed that if you live this protocol and make it your life, your body will have no choice but to bend to the laws of nature. There is no way around it. It will slowly and consistently be nudged in the direction of a healthy, normal homeostasis.

You just have to get out of your own way, and most times, get out of your head.

And, to acknowledge your dog shit comment.....if guys were eating dog shit and were recovering, you can guarantee people would be doing it. If it was real, you would have people trying it, recovering and then posting about it. It would build momentum and critical mass online as more and more people have done it. My point is, enough people have followed this regimen with success and healing that it's track record speaks for itself....unlike dog shit.

[userpff]

I understand your frustration.....I do.

But it's not like that at all.

We know what works. It has nothing to do with "wanting to have all the answers." I know, 100%, what you should do to get over this. Regardless of symptoms and regardless of duration, the answer is ALWAYS going to be the same. The reason for this is based strictly in natural science/natural hygiene.

This is based upon my own personal experiences and the experiences of others who have done basically the same things to get themselves back.

The issue for most guys here is timeline. It's never fast enough for them. That being said, it's guaranteed that if you live this protocol and make it your life, your body will have no choice but to bend to the laws of nature. There is no way around it. It will slowly and consistently be nudged in the direction of a healthy, normal homeostasis.

You just have to get out of your own way, and most times, get out of your head.

And, to acknowledge your dog shit comment.....if guys were eating dog shit and were recovering, you can guarantee people would be doing it. If it was real, you would have people trying it, recovering and then posting about it. It would build momentum and critical mass online as more and more people have done it. My point is, enough people have followed this regimen with success and healing that it's track record speaks for itself....unlike dog shit.

Cdnuts I got a couple questions, what vegetables and fruits did you eat on the raw diet and what vegetables did you continue eating when adding meat back. did you eat a lot of green leafy vegetables?

[Grape Ape]

Where is your blood work?

[Konflict]

There is enough info out their that makes it clear Vitamin E mixed tocopherols can reduce estrogen. Its also clear that many PFS guys like myself got worse after reducing estrogen. If I am following your post correctly you got worse only a short time after adding in the vitamin E mixed tocopherols. That makes it pretty obvious that lowering your estrogen was the cause. It's highly unlikely that a low carb diet is the cause of your continued worsening of symptoms expecially when you consider how much worse you got. But that's just my opinion.

With PFS when we take something that makes  us worse sometimes we just don't get better because we stop taking it like normal people do. This happened to me when I took an AI. It put me to a lower level that I was at before I even took it and it took me probable two years go come back to my prior baseline. I would just forget about what happened and when it happened and just stick to the game plan and be careful about trying anything outside Cds normal protocol. Staying away from the blends will probable be a good idea to. If you want B complex and vitamin D just buy them individually.

At the end of the day the herb cycling, eating healthy and working out to include sprints should get your hormones all leveled out. It may take a while but at least it's guaranteed to work. That's really the easy part at this point for me. It's all the evidence that's pointing towards altered nurosteriods and gut inflammation as being major pieces of the puzzle with us that I'm more worried about as this is not as easily as treatable than simply getting your self to have healthy hormone levels naturally at the basic level such as free T, total T, estrogen and DHT.  And again you don't need to take anything to reduce estrogen. That should fix it self once you increase your T naturally over a long period of time.

Just my two cents anyway from a guy still recovering.

I just had suspected I had low E symptoms based on what a few other people have felt when taking an AI already being affected by PFS, and we should all know remember that blood work isn't 100% credible with this condition.

Did you do anything else to help reduce these symptoms? Only things I'm currently taking are vitamin C, D3, magnesium and a probiotic.

Yea I never even intended to reduce my estrogen at all, was just taking vitamin E because I wanted to help out my dry skin.....sucks because I never knew it was an AI.

I'm still suspicious of the diet contributing, because it can cause metabolic damage, but regardless I just want to try and reverse this. I'm planning on starting the juice feast after my Dr appointment next week, I want to get more blood work if possible from him and also see if he'll give me and Xray for my osteo issues....I need some painkillers this bone and joint pain is insanely progressive....never knew PFS symptoms could progress this fast after initially noticing them.

Been a little over a week nofap lol, I feel slightly more aggressive (probably why I went on that rant a few days ago lol sorry guys). Herb cycling is what is making me a little nervous as of now, I just don't want to take the herbs that can act as AI's as I'm still suspicious of my symptoms, but I guess I will have to research which ones will be best for my current condition.

- - - Updated - - -


Where is your blood work?

They were on page 1 but I'll post them again with updated new tests and also with ranges.


Labs from 1/24/17

TSH: 2.75 uIu/mL (0.34 - 5.60 uIu/mL)
T3 Free: 3.55 PG/mL (2.5 - 3.9 PG/mL)
DHEA: 213.6 uG/dL (5 - 690 uG/dL)
Total Estrogens: 88 pg/mL (60 - 190 pg/mL)
Estradiol: 18 PG/mL (<40 pg/mL)
Free Testosterone: 62.7 pg/mL (46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL)
Testosterone: 341.27 NG/dL (175 - 781 NG/dL)
Vitamin D3: 45 ng/mL (30 - 100 ng/mL)
Prolactin: 10.4 NG/mL (2.6 - 13.1 NG/mL)
Glucose: 101 MG/dl (70 - 140 MG/dL)

Sodium: 136 MMOL/L. (35 - 143 MMOL/L)
Potassium: 4.2 MMOL/L. (3.6 - 5.1 MMOL/L)
Chloride: 99 MMOL/L. (98 - 107 MMOL/L)
C02: 30 MMOL/L. (22 - 30 MMOL/L)
BUN: 8 MG/dL. (7.0 - 21.0 MG/dL)
Creatinine: 0.8 MG/dL. ( 0.6 - 1.2 MG/dL)


New labs as of 2/6/17:

Cortisol - 11.22 UG/dL (6.7 - 22.6 UG/dL)
Lactate Dehydrogenase - 114 IU/L (98 - 192 IU/L)
C-REACTIVE PROTEIN,HIGH SENSIT - 0.05 MG/dL (0.0 - 0.7 MG/dL)
Sedimentation rate Automated - 2 MM/HR (0 - 15 MM/HR)
LYME AB IGG - NEGATIVE
LYME AB IGM - NEGATIVE
Rheumatoid Factor < 7 IU/mL < 14 IU/mL

[Cdsnuts]

Cdnuts I got a couple questions, what vegetables and fruits did you eat on the raw diet and what vegetables did you continue eating when adding meat back. did you eat a lot of green leafy vegetables?

Please don't randomly jump in on an existing thread with a question that has nothing to do with the original post. If you would like answers to your questions, start a new thread and help build the informative nature of this site. We don't want to litter every post with random questions. Thank you.

[userpff]

Please don't randomly jump in on an existing thread with a question that has nothing to do with the original post. If you would like answers to your questions, start a new thread and help build the informative nature of this site. We don't want to litter every post with random questions. Thank you.

Ok will do

[Grape Ape]

So it does seem your estrogen is low and free test as well. Total test isn't terribly low, but your prolactin is high. I would def focus on getting the free-t up and prolactin down for sure. Maybe try some B6(P-5-P) for the prolactin and Boron for the free-t. I'm not sure if free-t effects total estrogen, but getting both that and total-t up should help get the estrogen back in range. FYI, I'm no expert on reading blood work.

Is there any reason a PFS victem can't use clomid?

[5 alpha victim]

So it does seem your estrogen is low and free test as well. Total test isn't terribly low, but your prolactin is high. I would def focus on getting the free-t up and prolactin down for sure. Maybe try some B6(P-5-P) for the prolactin and Boron for the free-t. I'm not sure if free-t effects total estrogen, but getting both that and total-t up should help get the estrogen back in range. FYI, I'm no expert on reading blood work.

Is there any reason a PFS victem can't use clomid?

A majorty of PFS people who tried a clomid restart ended up worse. For me a few years ago an endo put me on a two year clomid restart which took my total T levels from below the normal range to off the charts high which brought my Free T to the normal range and my Estrogen above the normal range. During this time I personally did not get worse but I did not get better. I simply felt nothing. Once the endo seen the sky high estrogen on the labs he gave me an AI and within two weeks I was twice as bad as I was before taking the AI even though the labs showed that the AI did its job by bringing my estrogen perfectly to the mid normal range. Also there are several cases of guys on the PH website getting worse after taking AI's.

The explanation behind this would probable require concepts that go far beyond my level of intelligence but I'm beginning to suspect that for some guys taking an AI somehow messes up even more their already messed up neurosteriod imbalence. Anyway I'm going to stop now so I don't add to the getting off subject issue lol.

[holyhead]

Ais damage hormones even further...Blood test don't show anything a lot of times..Bottom line imo is Pfs is what would be considered chemical brain trauma...It is neuro steroids and neuro hormones..It is brain damage..

[5 alpha victim]

[QUOTE=Konflict;52060]I just had suspected I had low E symptoms based on what a few other people have felt when taking an AI already being affected by PFS, and we should all know remember that blood work isn't 100% credible with this condition.

Did you do anything else to help reduce these symptoms? Only things I'm currently taking are vitamin C, D3, magnesium and a probiotic.

Yea I never even intended to reduce my estrogen at all, was just taking vitamin E because I wanted to help out my dry skin.....sucks because I never knew it was an AI.

I'm still suspicious of the diet contributing, because it can cause metabolic damage, but regardless I just want to try and reverse this. I'm planning on starting the juice feast after my Dr appointment next week, I want to get more blood work if possible from him and also see if he'll give me and Xray for my osteo issues....I need some painkillers this bone and joint pain is insanely progressive....never knew PFS symptoms could progress this fast after initially noticing them.

Been a little over a week nofap lol, I feel slightly more aggressive (probably why I went on that rant a few days ago lol sorry guys). Herb cycling is what is making me a little nervous as of now, I just don't want to take the herbs that can act as AI's as I'm still suspicious of my symptoms, but I guess I will have to research which ones will be best for my current condition.

Maybe your right. But the thing is low E would correct itself as soon as you stop taking or doing what's making you have low E and you would no longer have those low E symptoms. That's why I think something else is at play with that.

The blood work is creditable in the regard that it's showing what our hormones are at that they tested us for. The issue sounds like that it's other factors such as neurosteriods and inflammation that's preventing our bodies from responding to the normal hormone levels that we see in our labs. Anyone who recovered created the perfect environment inside their bodies so that their bodies could correct these issues that it could not other wise correct on its own.

Im currently reading through CDS website so I can adjust things to resemble his protocol more closely. Once I'm done I'll let you know everything I'm taking. Please keep posted. We can do this together.

[DrivenToRecover]

I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.

[Maxout777]

I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.
Amen. Couldn't agree more.

[5 alpha victim]

I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.

No worries.

The reducing estrogen poing seemed to be in line with my opinion on what I thought Konflict was experiencing and what was being discussed in this thread. It was just a story that I was pointing out for informaton purposes only but seeing that you expressed concern over it i deleated the part that you did not think was needed.

The standard at Swolesource never slips which is why I have always liked this place.

Thanks brother

[jimmyjonas]

I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.

I agree 100% the negative talk really isn't helpful and a hindrance to recovery.

[Cdsnuts]

I don't want to come on here and hear about people killing themselves or that you think pfs = brain damage.

Not specifically calling out these two posters at all...just using as examples of a gradual trend I'm seeing as more people become active here.

I really like being here on this board because we help educate each other and stay positive. I feel like that standard is slipping. Lets change that.

Agreed. But ALL of you guys know my stance on the subject. I can't do it alone. If you want to keep the board that way, you have to be that change you want. You have to let these new guys know what's up. You have to let them know what this board represents and why and how it's different. I can only say it so many times.

As a matter of fact, when it came out that I was on this board a few years ago, I was actually against having a PFS section here for that very reason. I'm sure if you search old posts you can find the conversation.

And yes, it's already starting to happen now that more and more guys show up here. This board isn't a typical propecia board where guys can throw around why they think things are happening and what they think the answer is. There is no need for that on this board because WE KNOW what the answer is. There is no need for conjecture, guessing, reinventing the wheel, etc. It's all just a waste of time.

You guys know the sooner you start doing the correct things the sooner your nightmare will be over. That's it. It's that simple.....well....for most guys anyway Driven.....wink wink.

Get on these new guys.....if they wan't to act like they are on propecia help, then they may as well go back there...they're just wasting their time. You know it, and I know it.