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Snell1234
01-30-2017, 01:41 AM
I just wanted to see whether something I've stumbled on would apply to other pfs guys.

I decided to stop masturbating altogether 3 weeks ago. I have improved massively. And i mean massively. I've been doing everything else Cdnuts has mentioned as well for the record.

I know this seems a bit weird asking this, but what were all of your masturbation habits? For me, I was doing it once a day minimum every day for the last 10 years. I've read that this will decrease your androgen receptors and eventually your testosterone.

Curious just to follow up this line on thought.

jimmyjonas
01-30-2017, 05:48 AM
Hi,

This is a good question and wondering the same thing is it a total ban on fap during the protocol. To be honest I haven't and wondering is that exacerbating my problem. That's great to hear you had improvements in three weeks from no fap and in conjunction with the protocol, can I ask did your sexual sides improve from no fap? My main complaint is numbness and loss of sensitivity in penile skin on shaft among a few others. I found article below which backs up the androgen receptor theory you mention

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/masturbation-downregulates-certain-androgenic-receptors-in-the-brain-and-upregulates-certain-estro.6998/

Brazilianguy
01-30-2017, 07:48 AM
I just wanted to see whether something I've stumbled on would apply to other pfs guys.

I decided to stop masturbating altogether 3 weeks ago. I have improved massively. And i mean massively. I've been doing everything else Cdnuts has mentioned as well for the record.

I know this seems a bit weird asking this, but what were all of your masturbation habits? For me, I was doing it once a day minimum every day for the last 10 years. I've read that this will decrease your androgen receptors and eventually your testosterone.

Curious just to follow up this line on thought.

I don't think fap would be bad if we do just once a week. At least I don't get worse, actually sometimes I even get better doing it.

But I do nofap when I'm on cycle and I think it helps. I do exercises, eat a salad, then eat a Normal lunch with less carbs because green salad makes me eat a bit less in lunch, then I eat a fruit (specially orange, lime, apple, pineapple, because they decrease estrogen) then I drink a lot of water, eat dinner, take a cold shower and go to sleep. I also must say that I chew a lot my food to make it easier to digest (I think good digestion is important to make your body heal more and make the herbs work better) then I wake up the next day, take my herbs and when the cycle stops working (sign of E getting higher from the herbs IMO) after 3-5 days without taking herbs I fap and wait a month to see if the herbs will work again, generally they do when you get a good quality and you put everything in line.

The herbs gave me much better baseline than any kind of medication like clomid, tamoxifen, or supplement like sustain alpha (I prefer herbs now, the SERMS will basically work everytime but they make your body very fragile and you won't hold much of the benefits if you compare to herbs)

Edit: I forgot to say that I stay at least a week and a half without fapping to make herbs work better.

Snell1234
01-30-2017, 07:49 AM
Well I haven't tested out my sexual performance as I strictly will not be ejaculating until I am cured.

All I know is I was on holiday at the beach last week and I was getting spontaneous erections, which has never happened the last couple of years. It improves my gut function drastically as well.

The more I read and research, the more I have realised, like English, is that this pfs is so similar to many other conditions. We are not permanently damaged. Far from it. If you have a look at some of the symptoms of guys who are addicted to porn and masturbate too much, they are very similar to ours (with some guys even reporting low testosterone, brain fog, anxiety etc).

I firmly believe that all pfs people should totally abstain until cured - unsure how this would work practically for guys with wife's or girlfriends.

Snell1234
01-30-2017, 08:02 AM
To summarise what I have read from a few sources. My interpretation of what they say is that after ejaculation, androgen receptors decrease. It then takes 3 days for this level to be restored. If you keep ejaculating before they are fully restored, then this will increase the time needed to restore them.

And after a while, if you ejaculate too much, your brain won't allow you to produce any more androgen receptors as it expects them to be depleted straight away. So it takes a while of abstinence for your body to even begin the process of producing more androgen receptors.

For some of us, it may take a while for the androgen receptors to be fully restored.

Also, I believe that as androgen receptors increase, eventually testosterone will be signalled to increase as a feedback loop occurs once the baseline level of testosterone is absorbed into a greater number of androgen receptors.

This is in line with anecdotal stories of guys getting massive increase in testosterone after around 100 days of no ejaculation.

Swill
01-30-2017, 08:25 AM
I firmly believe that all pfs people should totally abstain until cured - unsure how this would work practically for guys with wife's or girlfriends.

Just to pull you up on the fact that this is just not true. Masturbation and sexual intercourse with a partner are two COMPLETELY different things. Sex has a massive raft of hormonal benefits and it is recommend you do it as much as you see fit, without getting bummed when sometimes things don't go too perfect. Sex really helps and in my opinion can play a great part in recovery (the old 'use it or lose it' adage).

Masturbation however has none of the benefits hormonally and can deplete when done too often (every day etc). One in a while though I don't see an issue with, but always take the opportunity to have sex with a partner when its available... it WILL help.

Maxout777
01-30-2017, 11:19 AM
I practice NoFap but I've relapsed a few times along my journey as well though, I'm not perfect. I'm at a point now in my recovery where if I masturbate I don't have any negative effects like I did back in the beginning where it would bring on a bad swing. Now it just feels like it did before, just a tired feeling.... but I still don't do it often.

Sex is a whole different ball game. I have sex with my fiancee as often as I can, I agree with Swill that it helps in recovery and also in mindset that you're not as fucked up as you think you are.

Snell1234
01-30-2017, 02:43 PM
I understand the point you are making and I agree - the two are very different. However, in the study with rats, it was done on rats who were sexually exhausted after copulation. Their androgen receptors were measured and they had decreased.

I will try to find the study.

- - - Updated - - -

@maxout777 - what is your longest steak of no fap out of interest? And did this streak include or not include sex with a female?

Maxout777
01-30-2017, 03:05 PM
I understand the point you are making and I agree - the two are very different. However, in the study with rats, it was done on rats who were sexually exhausted after copulation. Their androgen receptors were measured and they had decreased.

I will try to find the study.

- - - Updated - - -

@maxout777 - what is your longest steak of no fap out of interest? And did this streak include or not include sex with a female?

I believe 50 days or so without sex with a female, and 84 was including sex with a female. It was over the summer.....probably brought me from some of my worst times to livable times.

I had sex twice last week without any change (negative change, that is) in the way I felt. Of course, like I've stated I believe I'm through the woods on that issue.

Swill
01-30-2017, 03:15 PM
All I can tell you bro is from experience, if I have a run of good sex it does great things for me in terms of momentum sexually, increased libido, strength in the gym, leanness and better sleep. All the stuff associated with higher androgen levels that they say you get from sex without finasteride in the equation. So I know its doing good stuff for me.

I haven't really been big on masturbation since this thing hit as the libido generally speaking hasn't been what it should be, so save it for my lady.

Snell1234
01-30-2017, 04:08 PM
I believe 50 days or so without sex with a female, and 84 was including sex with a female. It was over the summer.....probably brought me from some of my worst times to livable times.

I had sex twice last week without any change (negative change, that is) in the way I felt. Of course, like I've stated I believe I'm through the woods on that issue.

Very interesting that it brought you out of your worst times. I think the not masturbating part is a very important part of cdnuts regime.

Maxout777
01-30-2017, 04:37 PM
Very interesting that it brought you out of your worst times. I think the not masturbating part is a very important part of cdnuts regime.

I guess I should clarify my statement....I meant to say that corresponded with me getting out of my worst times. I don't believe this was the main reason....Just a cog in the grand machine of everything else I was and am still doing.

Cdsnuts
02-03-2017, 06:36 PM
Snell I can't believe that you weren't abstaining from masturbation this whole time? I thought you knew that part of it? That's one of the pages I haven't gotten around to finishing on my site yet, but it's part of the regimen, for sure, and for good reason.

Sex with a female is RECOMMENDED if you can get one that is easy going and nice and will work with you for awhile. Find one that cares about you. It will make a world of difference, as Swill had mentioned.

If you can do that, then you can do your breathing exercises, get a pumping session on, then have sex....it will pull you up notches my friend.

The momentum builds, again like Swill said.

The whole point of this is to BUILD your health. To grow it, move it forward, in incremental steps. Everything you can throw at it will pay dividends in it's own way positively effecting your outcome.

Snell1234
02-11-2017, 03:54 AM
Snell I can't believe that you weren't abstaining from masturbation this whole time? I thought you knew that part of it? That's one of the pages I haven't gotten around to finishing on my site yet, but it's part of the regimen, for sure, and for good reason.

Sex with a female is RECOMMENDED if you can get one that is easy going and nice and will work with you for awhile. Find one that cares about you. It will make a world of difference, as Swill had mentioned.

If you can do that, then you can do your breathing exercises, get a pumping session on, then have sex....it will pull you up notches my friend.

The momentum builds, again like Swill said.

The whole point of this is to BUILD your health. To grow it, move it forward, in incremental steps. Everything you can throw at it will pay dividends in it's own way positively effecting your outcome.

I know, I wish I had started it earlier.

When you were fasting and in the periods post, were you completely abstaining? Did this include no sex also?

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 06:46 AM
I know, I wish I had started it earlier.

When you were fasting and in the periods post, were you completely abstaining? Did this include no sex also?

In the periods post? Not sure what you mean.

Again...sex with a female is always welcomed if you can maintain a positive attitude and not let yourself get down about any failures or short comings. She has to be a "nice girl." Or....as horrible as this is to say...a practice girl so to speak.

When I was fasting I had no desire for sex. When I was fasting I concentrated on clearing my mind and being present. This is a great time to work on meditation.

I didn't start having sex until the end of my recovery when I felt that I was ready....it was still shaky and touch and go, but once I started up, things cleared up very nicely for me. I waited six months after this to make my recovery post to be sure. Once my confidence went up, that was it....it was over. Done

This is more about balancing your mind as much as it is your body. That is where the key lies.

Snell1234
02-11-2017, 07:26 AM
In the periods post? Not sure what you mean.

Again...sex with a female is always welcomed if you can maintain a positive attitude and not let yourself get down about any failures or short comings. She has to be a "nice girl." Or....as horrible as this is to say...a practice girl so to speak.

When I was fasting I had no desire for sex. When I was fasting I concentrated on clearing my mind and being present. This is a great time to work on meditation.

I didn't start having sex until the end of my recovery when I felt that I was ready....it was still shaky and touch and go, but once I started up, things cleared up very nicely for me. I waited six months after this to make my recovery post to be sure. Once my confidence went up, that was it....it was over. Done

This is more about balancing your mind as much as it is your body. That is where the key lies.

Thanks for the information. That all makes sense. It is so simple really.

In terms of the period post, I meant the period after you have completed your fast, so the re-feeding period and then all the time after that. I'll take it based on your answer that you didn't masturbate at all and just had real sex at the end of your recovery.

Cdsnuts
02-11-2017, 09:00 AM
Thanks for the information. That all makes sense. It is so simple really.

In terms of the period post, I meant the period after you have completed your fast, so the re-feeding period and then all the time after that. I'll take it based on your answer that you didn't masturbate at all and just had real sex at the end of your recovery.

Yes....exactly.

Here is an article that just happened to be in my facebook feed today. Talk about coincidence.

The Scientific and Personal Benefits of Not Masturbating - VICE (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/things-i-learned-while-not-wanking-336)