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bruschi11
02-04-2017, 07:44 AM
Have been on this forum reading quite a bit. Came down with a pretty bad post fin crash beginning of December. Used pill 15 days in early November.

I messed up horribly. I'm 28. I worked with chilln on the allthingsmale forum to fix low cortisol issues. They started in 2014 and I started fixing them with chilln in early 2016. By summer, with t3/preg/testo cream, I was able to get myself into an amazing place say 90% of my old self.

Being on t-cream, my labs showed ridiculously high dht levels double the range. Chilln blocked DHT himself with beta sitosterol and told me that "fin definitely has risk, but as long as you maintain metabolic rate (cortisol), you shouldn't have an issue- but again it has risk." I don't want to blame him but he made me feel comfortable with something that I was never comfortable with before. I knew of the horror stories, but I also knew I was pretty good at "maintaining metabolic rate".

I was brainwashed by the guy. I think he was amazing teaching me how to fix cortisol, but DHT and finasteride were a whole another ball game. I listened to him, saw work from Dr. Hertoghe and Mariano saying too high DHT was a major negative. I had a temporary insanity issue there. I gave it a freakin shot.

Had some cortisol issues pretty quickly so quit. Preg-->cort was happening too fast. Blood pressure increased. Recovered by end of November (quit on 15th). Had a good week followed by a pretty immediate crash in early December.

Horrible Anxiety, excess cortisol production followed by low cortisol production (I know how these things feel- basically awful stress response), lessened libido and erection quality, morning and nocturnal erections went from 10/10 to 3/10, sleep is horrible- choppy.

I realize the fact this pill went in my body after having health issues is absolutely asinine. My self hatred was so bad all of December and January. Sure I took action to fix it, but the depression was far more than the drive to fix it.

Now its February, I feel like I can put together a form of HRT and medication regime to get myself functional and sleeping, but know I need to do more for complete recovery.

Current supps:

Pregnenolone cream: 100mg
T3: 10mcg
T-cyp 120mg weekly (killing libido compared to t gel- going back to t gel this week): T gel will be 100mg daily
hcg : 150mcg EOD
5a-dhp :5 drops per night
Magnesium, zinc, vitamin a,c, b6
tianeptine, shilajit
lysine, arginine, taurine
Injectable L carnitine: (to increase androgen receptor sensitivity)
Sorghum

It really feels like my biggest issues are mentally. Before I can think to fix libido, I know I have to fix the brain aspect. I believe GABA was totally destroyed and it directly led to a major serotonin/dopamine imbalance. I believe the last several weeks of supplementation has restored dopamine/serotonin to a better place, but gaba still in horrible spot as Xanax or Ativan is/was needed. I feel adding in SHILAJIT has really helped gaba in the last couple of days, but I have been prescribed baclofen. I have no problem going on baclofen long term as I realize how badly lack of GABA seems to be impacting me.

Definitely in a tough spot and willing to learn. Thinking about a long water fast or juice feast and cycling the herbs.
Shilajit I really would rather not stop as its effects seem pretty awesome and immediate, but if you think it needs to be cycled, I guess I have to do it.

bruschi11
02-04-2017, 08:21 AM
Looking for a link to the CDSNUTS protocol if anyone can provide that.

Also would a medication like baclofen be ok to stay on long term for the recovery. I just know my condition is a bit different than most as cortisol is completely messed up and any type of stress at all creates cortisol release. Believe this should help very much.

May also try to use shilajit instead for this. It seems to be helping mentally immensely.

Cdsnuts
02-04-2017, 02:28 PM
Looking for a link to the CDSNUTS protocol if anyone can provide that.

Also would a medication like baclofen be ok to stay on long term for the recovery. I just know my condition is a bit different than most as cortisol is completely messed up and any type of stress at all creates cortisol release. Believe this should help very much.

May also try to use shilajit instead for this. It seems to be helping mentally immensely.

Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

bruschi11
02-04-2017, 06:21 PM
Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.


Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

Just smoked pot for the 2nd time since I got myself into this hell. Made me really do some thinking.

I think you may be right. I'm totally messed up. I am a bit worried mind to penis connection could get messed up and I could lose that if I go off hormones.

I started Shilajit 3 days ago and it has been the best thing in terms of cortisol control. Could this herb be used daily at all times during this run?

28 years old. Right now I pretty much have nothing. I have everything though- a great job, family, so many friends that love me and have no idea what is going on, I bought a condo at 25 in the middle of an amazing city. I literally have everything. But nothing- and nobody gets it.

I was gifted athletically and in the classroom growing up and the combination of a very unhealthy college life and a couple pro hormone runs at beginning of college really seemed to mess me up by time I was 24. Since then it was all sorts of combos I've used- ghPeps/daa, clomid, HC runs, and finally what I thought was heaven- preg/t3/testo. Post fin has completely wiped that out.

While preg/t3/testo was heaven say 75% overall compared to the past. The past was living between 10 and 40%. This is now -100%. Hell.

Gotta make a big decision from here. Scary spot.

Thinking staying on TRT this week with just shilajit. Give myself my first week in the gym and see if there are any improvements in sleep, libido, the big ones.

I really am considering dropping everything. Have to give it at least two weeks for remaining drops of CYP to leave my system. If shilajit by itself can really contain cortisol to this degree, maybe I can recover on herbs.

Swill
02-05-2017, 08:25 AM
Just echoing what CD has said, your issues don't sound at all abnormal and you absolutely can recover naturally.

And by the way, I am all too familiar with the all things male forum and the fraud that is Dr Crisler... travelled from the UK out to see him in my first year of dealing with fin issues when I was a nervous wreck and hoping he was the saviour he proclaims to be... he didn't have the first clue on how to help and after a few pharma grade 'HPTA restart' protocols which made me manic beyond description and a shit tonne of tests, it became clear I was being used as a human guinea pig and cut him loose, not before he stole a bit of money for a product he never sent and didn't reply to any emails... had to get the money back through my card company eventually.

Anyway, I digress... basically dude it will be rough when you stop with the pharma stuff as your body levels out and finds homeostasis, it will feel like everything bad is happening but if you stay the course then within a month or so you'll be good to go with starting the rebuild... it'll require mental strength and be a case of 3 steps back initially to take 10 forward. It'll be a marathon and not a sprint, and never happens as quickly as you want it to, and you won't get the sledgehammer effect that pharma gives you but I really think you could cure yourself of all the issues you have naturally if you follow and are consistent with the content on CD's site.

I soon after my Crisler horror experience read up on CD's success and protocol and jumped on, and a few years later I am doing really well with just some residual sexual issues to finish mopping up. One things for sure though, if I'd stuck with the pharma route I certainly wouldn't be where I am right now. I'd advise you to jump on board with it all man, the benefits won't be immediate but will be more than worthwhile.

bruschi11
02-05-2017, 09:44 AM
Thanks for that SWILL- really needed to hear about a similar experience.

Test cyp is doing nothing basically- only seeing libido boosted by testo cream due to the dht conversion. I still am horrible, but shilajit I believe is doing an amazing job of balancing the brain and controlling cortisol release. Can shilajit be continued indefinitely and the herbs be cycled other than just that?

I would like to keep preg, small amounts of t3 (to stay out of RT3 situation), and 5a-dhp in play, but realize if you guys think they need to be removed I guess I can do it.

Should I juice feast as I come off the hormones? Will that be too much? Or should I just come off the hormones first then do the juice feast?

One thing I really have to consider right now is my last Cyp injection was Monday. That will be in system another two weeks and causing suppression. Maybe start juice feast while on hormones these next two weeks and see where it takes me. If I like where I'm going, stay on them. If not, drop the hormones.

I don't know, I just have a ton of variables at play right now with what is in my body right now. I totally agree with both of you- fixing from the ground up is the best way.

Swill
02-05-2017, 10:10 AM
you won't like where you're going initially... it'll be horrible. You'll be in a massive state of flux and are going to have a bad time... just know that this is going to happen and be assured that it WILL be temporary. Personally, I would wait out 3 weeks/a month before starting a feast, just eat well and train when you can in that time and then jump on the juice feast thereafter.

I personally would definitely drop the t3. If your supplementing with it then your thyroid etc are never going to recover naturally. It won't be fun initially, but more than worth it in the long run. And as far as shilajit goes, I cycle it but (correct me if I'm wrong anybody) I understand you can actually use shilajit daily if you wish. I just find that less is more for me with this thing.

Basically, if you go through with it this initial month will suck, but if you truly jump on board with dumping all the pharma, feasting and then hitting the protocol hard then I bet you'll be posting here in 4 months telling us you've felt the best you have in a long time... all natty.

bruschi11
02-05-2017, 10:27 AM
Again thanks Swill for quick reply. Was about to head to the grocery store, but I think I'll wait now.

When does the point come that T-Cyp is no longer suppressive? I really wish I never used it now. I've been all t-cream for 8 months, but the T-Cyp was just an attempt to see how I was with just T and lowered DHT in body.

I figure I have to stay on t cream (short half life) and hormones until t-cyp is no longer suppressive and go from there. Also very worried about moving from HCG to just LH/FSH signaling whereas I haven't relied on these since last June while on a SERM. Do you think I should use a SERM for a couple of weeks to just get the signaling going then jump off? Damn that crash will probably be horrible.

Edit: SWILL, read up on your journey- props man.

bruschi11
02-05-2017, 05:13 PM
One thing I'm seeing here is a lot of low hormone levels of T. In my body I feel as if T isn't working at all whether it is high or low. DHT actually is working as I feel such a difference on the cream libido-wise. I woke up with erections several times last night.

So all of us here are under the assumption that the AR is the biggest issue with PFS correct? 5ar2 something to contemplate. I feel like the whole fasting, juicing thing is what's going to let 5ar2 respond along with DHT supplementation. 5ar2 being a time thing as well for that reversal.

The androgen receptor is the scary part. And basically the herbs I feel are for the androgen receptor- correct me if I'm wrong please.

Also, is it possible I am hurting the testosterone receptor by giving myself synthetic T?

Snell1234
02-05-2017, 05:38 PM
If you believe the androgen receptor is the problem, then I am going on a bit of a mission with emphasising this point, stop masturbating / ejaculating to allow the androgen receptor levels to recover.

bruschi11
02-05-2017, 07:18 PM
If you believe the androgen receptor is the problem, then I am going on a bit of a mission with emphasising this point, stop masturbating / ejaculating to allow the androgen receptor levels to recover.

That will be stopped immediately.

Its blatantly obvious the body is not responding to testosterone in the way it should. Sure, my balls do shrink without hcg for a couple days. So my body is definitley recognizing the fact that exogenous testo is coming in. Good thing. After T CYP injection- the dopamine was definitley felt, but I didn't feel well. The body didn't like testo.
The masculant effects of testo I used to get mentally and physically are almost non existent.

T cypionate left me with little libido. T cream- enough libido but still not feeling anywhere near strong. I believe this is far more than just a "getting the hormones corrected" issue that I am sure CDS can attest to.

To put it in contrast. I am so weak right now. Just taking my dog for a mile walk today and the excitement of the super bowl left me mentally and physically disheveled. TRT used to fight stress for me extremely well. Or just being on test booster like DAA. Right now, with high testosterone, I am horrible. That said, libido is actually pretty high right now- I will most likely have wood tonight/tomo morning. That said, DHT levels are definitely high being on a T-cream. So the body is sensitive to DHT but not testosterone it seems.

I'm more and more convinced as time ticks by that I need to drop all hormones and cleanse. Very scary as the shrinkage is apparent on t CYP alone. But I'm going to have to fight.

bruschi11
02-06-2017, 08:51 AM
Really thinking this is an androgen receptor in brain issue more than anything. I feel the increases in T upon application, a little bit more dopamine, but not nearly enough.

I read a bit up on APR1989's story on PH today and his story was extremely similar to mine. Whereas he crashed 3 weeks after his last dose of fin with very similar symptoms to mine, and was struggling on fin hence why he stopped. He had "the stop- recover for a few weeks, then absolute crash" symptoms that guys on PH don't think is recoverable.

He recovered with high dose potent tribulus I think opening up the androgen receptors in the brain then tapering off of it. I believe the herbs can do this for me including tribulus. I believe the fasting can do this for me. I am really starting to believe I can do this.

I felt defeated the last few days. Last night's super bowl proves you can never feel defeated. I'm going to beat this guys. I'm not sure how exactly I will proceed at this point, but I am going to beat this.

DrivenToRecover
02-06-2017, 09:25 PM
Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com)

Not 100% finished yet, but you can put together the program from there.

I know you think your in a different boat, but most guys that crash end up with sky high cortisol. Your mental symptoms are exactly like mine used to be.

There is one fix for this whole thing regardless of what your symptoms are. Dump the pharms and jump on the regimen.

When you say dump the pharms are you saying you shouldn't take t3/t4 and preg as well?

Cdsnuts
02-07-2017, 06:27 AM
When you say dump the pharms are you saying you shouldn't take t3/t4 and preg as well?
Yes. In my opinion it's all just Band-Aids. Endogenous recovery is what you should seek

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DrivenToRecover
02-07-2017, 10:00 AM
Yes. In my opinion it's all just Band-Aids. Endogenous recovery is what you should seek

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I understand that for the t3/4, but preg has a positive feedback loop so its actually facilitating endogenous recovery no?


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Cdsnuts
02-08-2017, 09:35 AM
I understand that for the t3/4, but preg has a positive feedback loop so its actually facilitating endogenous recovery no?


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On paper, I suppose.

But just put it this way....I didn't use it and neither did many other people that have recovered. It's not necessary for recovery.

If you want to use yourself as a guinea pig, well I certainly understand that, as I was nothing but a guinea pig the whole time I was stumbling through my recovery over the years.....all I did was experiment. I understand the desire.

But I can say for certain what works now, and it doesn't include preg. Would it help? Sure, it's possible. But when it comes down to it, with all intents and purposes, I can say that it is not 100% necessary to recover yourself fully.

bruschi11
02-13-2017, 08:36 PM
Got results back from about 6 weeks after my list pill. Shows 5a-thf/thf ratio of about .4 when they say the reference range is .6-1.3.

Obviously horrible news, but still only 6 weeks after my list pill so I'm sure the enzyme is still recovering at that point. 6 weeks later- not doing too much better. I am currently on HCG mono getting myself off of TRT. Believe I may do a triptorelin restart shortly to go all natty.

Tough times here. Not sure what I can do.

Has anyone measured 5ar activity? CD did you or anyone you know measure and see 5ar activity recover over time?

Cdsnuts
02-15-2017, 09:41 AM
Got results back from about 6 weeks after my list pill. Shows 5a-thf/thf ratio of about .4 when they say the reference range is .6-1.3.

Obviously horrible news, but still only 6 weeks after my list pill so I'm sure the enzyme is still recovering at that point. 6 weeks later- not doing too much better. I am currently on HCG mono getting myself off of TRT. Believe I may do a triptorelin restart shortly to go all natty.

Tough times here. Not sure what I can do.

Has anyone measured 5ar activity? CD did you or anyone you know measure and see 5ar activity recover over time?

I understand you're in a tough spot and your anxious and feel horrible.

But we've already told you what you need to do. The more time you wait to do it, the longer you're going to be stuck in the state you're in.

Are you familiar with the recovery protocol most of the guys in this section are using?

bruschi11
03-03-2017, 08:46 PM
It took me some time to decide to do this- but started clomid today to begin restart. Was using hcg mono before- but realize I need to start from the top if I ever want to recover. Started TRT 8 months ago (5 months great, 1 while 15days of fin/recovery, 1 month horrible fin crash, January was just realizing TRT wasn't good for this, February HCG mono). This is first time I am relying on LH/FSH in 8 months. I feel braindead, I feel horrible, I feel nothing down low for the very first time in my life. This is clearly rock bottom other than panic attacks mid-crash.

Coming off clomid is going to be tough. Thinking I will do a triptorelin injection when clomid comes out to get things going even more. Then it will be onto using a combination of CD's and Mario Vitali's DNA stuff. I have severe chronic fatigue/adrenal fatigue. Believe my only shot of getting myself out of this is fighting from all angles.

Realize testosterone cream caused major anxiety- every time I used it. Libido was fine on it (dht), but body's testosterone response was horrible. On HCG mono, I tried to reintroduce testo several times and it just failed each time. Initially it would feel pretty decent, but within 4 hours I would get anxiety.

CDS, did you ever supplement with testosterone before you went and did your amazing journey? Or just DHT/prohormones?

Cdsnuts
03-03-2017, 09:23 PM
It took me some time to decide to do this- but started clomid today to begin restart. Was using hcg mono before- but realize I need to start from the top if I ever want to recover. Started TRT 8 months ago (5 months great, 1 while 15days of fin/recovery, 1 month horrible fin crash, January was just realizing TRT wasn't good for this, February HCG mono). This is first time I am relying on LH/FSH in 8 months. I feel braindead, I feel horrible, I feel nothing down low for the very first time in my life. This is clearly rock bottom other than panic attacks mid-crash.

Coming off clomid is going to be tough. Thinking I will do a triptorelin injection when clomid comes out to get things going even more. Then it will be onto using a combination of CD's and Mario Vitali's DNA stuff. I have severe chronic fatigue/adrenal fatigue. Believe my only shot of getting myself out of this is fighting from all angles.

Realize testosterone cream caused major anxiety- every time I used it. Libido was fine on it (dht), but body's testosterone response was horrible. On HCG mono, I tried to reintroduce testo several times and it just failed each time. Initially it would feel pretty decent, but within 4 hours I would get anxiety.

CDS, did you ever supplement with testosterone before you went and did your amazing journey? Or just DHT/prohormones?

I never took ANYTHING before my journey but fin. I wasn't into hormones or gear or anything. I knew nothing about it before getting PFS.

Once I started the healing process, it was just DHT based prohormones. Never testosterone. Exogenous hormones, the ones that DON'T have to be reduced to target, aren't going to do you any good.

And, if you're going the route you're going, I'm not going to be of much help to you.

I've stated my opinion on the matter before, and I'll do so again. You're not doing yourself any good by messing with clomid or triptorelin. These things are just going to serve to mess up your already messed up system.

Others have already warned you, but you seem to be hell bent on sticking to the pharmaceuticals.

Good luck to you.

bruschi11
03-04-2017, 05:59 AM
You don't stop an 8 month "steroid" cycle by breaking without proper PCT. Clomid, triptorelin- these are just to get me off the "steroid" this next month. To get the hypothalamus begin its production of hormones. Never mind the fact that I have absolutely rock bottom cortisol right now which clomid helps restart as well.

Besides preg, prog, t3, pharmeceuticals will be out of the picture within 4-6 weeks. I get it- this will be hell, but I'm just using the pharms for time being to even be able to get to the spot where you were before your journey.

Cdsnuts
03-04-2017, 09:35 AM
You don't stop an 8 month "steroid" cycle by breaking without proper PCT. Clomid, triptorelin- these are just to get me off the "steroid" this next month. To get the hypothalamus begin its production of hormones. Never mind the fact that I have absolutely rock bottom cortisol right now which clomid helps restart as well.

Besides preg, prog, t3, pharmeceuticals will be out of the picture within 4-6 weeks. I get it- this will be hell, but I'm just using the pharms for time being to even be able to get to the spot where you were before your journey.

I see.

holyhead
03-04-2017, 08:33 PM
I saw best Neuro brain hormone guy in LA.. Exhaustive testing, and several supplements later my mind is almost pre finasteride state..I thought I was done for and pray to God it lasts..Clomid 50mg every other day..Only done it for 3 weeks and I cannot believe the difference night and day...Now my physical symptoms remain, huge amount of fat and swelling fluid retention but I am so grateful for the mental relief..

bruschi11
03-08-2017, 08:12 PM
Just took my last dose of clomid. Gonna make it a one week restart. Anxiety up the ying yang.

Pretty sure I'm going to head to Texas by April for a two week water fast. Dr. Cinque's retreat- I like the idea of acupuncture and massage therapy there. California is just too much on the wallet at this time for me.

Currently tapering off all caffeine, benzos, clomid, all this horrible stuff that has gone into body and will start following a controlled regime. Will be following CD'S stuff and Mario Vitali's DNA stuff from here on out as I get this stuff out of my system beginning with the water fast.

Cdsnuts
03-08-2017, 08:23 PM
Just took my last dose of clomid. Gonna make it a one week restart. Anxiety up the ying yang.

Pretty sure I'm going to head to Texas by April for a two week water fast. Dr. Cinque's retreat- I like the idea of acupuncture and massage therapy there. California is just too much on the wallet at this time for me.

Currently tapering off all caffeine, benzos, clomid, all this horrible stuff that has gone into body and will start following a controlled regime. Will be following CD'S stuff and Mario Vitali's DNA stuff from here on out as I get this stuff out of my system beginning with the water fast.
Be careful coming off the benzos. They can be tough all on their own.

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bruschi11
03-09-2017, 03:19 PM
Be careful coming off the benzos. They can be tough all on their own.

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Appreciate it CD. Shilajit actually is great for coming off these (I go very low dose anyways). It also seems like any type of T boosting (HCG, cyp,T cream, now clomid) all increase anxiety- cream being the most. So while I finish off clomid I will remain on benzos- I will then have a "clomid crash". I'll feel horribly depressed, but anxiety should decrease significantly. That is when I will stop the benzos. Should be within several days.

I truly am starting to believe this is all hormonal and neurotransmitter this disease and nothing to do with the AR. Increasing androgens I believe depletes Prog and its metabolites. I believe prog and its metabolites are the most important thing for us getting back to health #1 and then #2 androgens come last.

Do you have any advice for before water fast? I am hearing just fruits and veggies, raw food for a couple weeks before and then just juicing for 2 or 3 days before. I'm not thrilled about doing this, but I believe since I left myself making zero progress and in hell for these last 3 months, I believe this is absolutely necessary to save my life.

Cdsnuts
03-09-2017, 04:39 PM
Appreciate it CD. Shilajit actually is great for coming off these (I go very low dose anyways). It also seems like any type of T boosting (HCG, cyp,T cream, now clomid) all increase anxiety- cream being the most. So while I finish off clomid I will remain on benzos- I will then have a "clomid crash". I'll feel horribly depressed, but anxiety should decrease significantly. That is when I will stop the benzos. Should be within several days.

I truly am starting to believe this is all hormonal and neurotransmitter this disease and nothing to do with the AR. Increasing androgens I believe depletes Prog and its metabolites. I believe prog and its metabolites are the most important thing for us getting back to health #1 and then #2 androgens come last.

Do you have any advice for before water fast? I am hearing just fruits and veggies, raw food for a couple weeks before and then just juicing for 2 or 3 days before. I'm not thrilled about doing this, but I believe since I left myself making zero progress and in hell for these last 3 months, I believe this is absolutely necessary to save my life.

Based on my own experiences and the experiences of others, I disagree with androgens coming last. Without them, life is pretty miserable for a man.

I don't suggest doing a water fast on your own if you've never done one before. That is something that needs to be done at a water fasting clinic for a long list of reasons, your safety and sanity being one of them.

bruschi11
03-09-2017, 07:34 PM
Based on my own experiences and the experiences of others, I disagree with androgens coming last. Without them, life is pretty miserable for a man.

I don't suggest doing a water fast on your own if you've never done one before. That is something that needs to be done at a water fasting clinic for a long list of reasons, your safety and sanity being one of them.

Believe I'm going to Texas for it. "Dr. Cinque's retreat". I guess he's been monitoring fasters for 40 years.

Cdsnuts
03-09-2017, 07:54 PM
Believe I'm going to Texas for it. "Dr. Cinque's retreat". I guess he's been monitoring fasters for 40 years.

Awesome man! You're doing it right.

They may have a protocol for you to follow before hand. Did you set the appointment with them yet? They will usually send you a fasters check list of things you need to do and avoid prior to coming to the center.

He may have not heard of PFS, so you may need to explain to him what it is and why you're wanting to cleanse. I'm going to look him up. I've never heard of him before.....

Not that that matters. The only thing that does matter is he has the experience of time and hundreds if not thousands of fasters under his supervision.

It's going to be an experience to say the least. But you can rest easier knowing that you're in a place that caters to this exact thing.

That alone makes a world of difference when your mind starts playing tricks on you due to detox. There probably hasn't been any situation he hasn't seen and he's probably seen way worse cases then your own. That should be comforting.

Edit: Just checked him out. He's trained with Dr. Shelton who was the man in natural hygiene. You should be in good hands.

I'm not sure how strict he is in regards to moving around....some places literally want you to do NOTHING...like barely move around. This is for your own benefit and makes for an extremely powerful fast. Take the time to stretch, do breathing exercises, practice your meditation and focus on being in the present.

I'm very interested in your experience there as I haven't heard of anyone using that facility before . Keep me posted!

For anyone who is interested in checking out this information: Fasting Retreats, Centers, Resorts Clinics | Juice Fasting Retreats By Ralph Cinque (http://www.drcinque.com/)

To compare, this is where I go: TrueNorth Health Center (http://www.healthpromoting.com/)

K8668B
03-10-2017, 01:06 AM
Really thinking this is an androgen receptor in brain issue more than anything. I feel the increases in T upon application, a little bit more dopamine, but not nearly enough.

I read a bit up on APR1989's story on PH today and his story was extremely similar to mine. Whereas he crashed 3 weeks after his last dose of fin with very similar symptoms to mine, and was struggling on fin hence why he stopped. He had "the stop- recover for a few weeks, then absolute crash" symptoms that guys on PH don't think is recoverable.

He recovered with high dose potent tribulus I think opening up the androgen receptors in the brain then tapering off of it. I believe the herbs can do this for me including tribulus. I believe the fasting can do this for me. I am really starting to believe I can do this.

I felt defeated the last few days. Last night's super bowl proves you can never feel defeated. I'm going to beat this guys. I'm not sure how exactly I will proceed at this point, but I am going to beat this.

Amazing superbowl. Im from New England myself originally. So im naturally a huge pats fan. That superbowl was beautiful. I like to compare my own, and all of our battles against PFS, and life in general, to that superbowl. You can never feel defeated. Getting your ass kicked so bad, but to make a comeback and win at the end! Good luck on your fast, Bruschi! I'm currently on mine as we speak.

bruschi11
03-10-2017, 09:03 AM
Thanks for the support K866.

Unfortunately it's looking like this fasting retreat in Texas may not happen as he 1) doesn't believe in PFS since drug is still on the market. 2) made reference to me taking Ativan currently.

I told him I will be done with the Ativan shortly- far before my stay and how real this disease is. I don't know, it looks doubtful at this point that he will take me, but I am positive I will be taking place in a fast most likely at True North now.

For the record, clomid is making my life absolute hell and I just want to thank @swill for posting his experience with it and how bad it was for him at first.

Cdsnuts
03-10-2017, 09:39 AM
Thanks for the support K866.

Unfortunately it's looking like this fasting retreat in Texas may not happen as he 1) doesn't believe in PFS since drug is still on the market. 2) made reference to me taking Ativan currently.

I told him I will be done with the Ativan shortly- far before my stay and how real this disease is. I don't know, it looks doubtful at this point that he will take me, but I am positive I will be taking place in a fast most likely at True North now.

For the record, clomid is making my life absolute hell and I just want to thank @swill for posting his experience with it and how bad it was for him at first.
It doesn't matter if he doesn't believe in it or not. What an asshole. The benzo detox I can understand.

Well true north certainly has had its fair share of PFS fasters so they will certainly be familiar with it. Although again it's not necessary for them to be familiar with it because you're just going there for a cleanse

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Cdsnuts
03-10-2017, 09:40 AM
It doesn't matter if he doesn't believe in it or not. What an asshole. The benzo detox I can understand.

Well true north certainly has had its fair share of PFS fasters so they will certainly be familiar with it. Although again it's not necessary for them to be familiar with it because you're just going there for a cleanse

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And for the record, when I went to True North from my first fast I didn't tell them I was detoxing off of all of those powerful Pharmaceuticals at once otherwise they probably wouldn't have fasted me there either.

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bruschi11
03-10-2017, 10:37 AM
And for the record, when I went to True North from my first fast I didn't tell them I was detoxing off of all of those powerful Pharmaceuticals at once otherwise they probably wouldn't have fasted me there either.

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I should've been smarter and not mentioned the Ativan. Idiot move there. I did send follow up saying its just for sleep here and there. Hoping he will take that and help me out. I included fact I will be doing massage and acupuncture which I really would like to do.

So True North really is True North- going to cost me some money and time getting in and out of there from Boston. Will I continue to fast until I get home? Or start refeeding at True North? It just seems like that 10+ hour commute is going to be difficult for me on the way back if I am in the midst of refeeding.

Cdsnuts
03-10-2017, 10:42 AM
I should've been smarter and not mentioned the Ativan. Idiot move there. I did send follow up saying its just for sleep here and there. Hoping he will take that and help me out. I included fact I will be doing massage and acupuncture which I really would like to do.

So True North really is True North- going to cost me some money and time getting in and out of there from Boston. Will I continue to fast until I get home? Or start refeeding at True North? It just seems like that 10+ hour commute is going to be difficult for me on the way back if I am in the midst of refeeding.

??

You can't leave the center until you're refed. You have to include that as part of your time there. Also, what do you mean about a 10 hour commute?

bruschi11
03-10-2017, 11:55 AM
Didn't realize that. I just found that out right before you wrote that on their site. I'll leave questions for them from here. You got enough people asking you for information.

I just got in touch with True North and they are sending me the information and forms. But if SWILL did it from the UK, I'm sure I shouldn't have issue from Boston.

Actually last thing, will I definitely need a referral provider from a doctor? Honestly don't know if either of my two doctors will be willing to do so for True North.

Cdsnuts
03-10-2017, 12:03 PM
Didn't realize that. I just found that out right before you wrote that on their site. I'll leave questions for them from here. You got enough people asking you for information.

I just got in touch with True North and they are sending me the information and forms. But if SWILL did it from the UK, I'm sure I shouldn't have issue from Boston.

I'm not sure what issues you're thinking about?

Swill
03-10-2017, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the support K866.

Unfortunately it's looking like this fasting retreat in Texas may not happen as he 1) doesn't believe in PFS since drug is still on the market. 2) made reference to me taking Ativan currently.

I told him I will be done with the Ativan shortly- far before my stay and how real this disease is. I don't know, it looks doubtful at this point that he will take me, but I am positive I will be taking place in a fast most likely at True North now.

For the record, clomid is making my life absolute hell and I just want to thank @swill for posting his experience with it and how bad it was for him at first.

What clomid did to me was on par with how I felt at my worst with PFS bro. Dirty, dirty drug. They prescribe it to women to help with fertility and I mentioned I had taken it to a family doc... his response was "it does a good job of raising fertility sometimes, but the problem is the women taking it are so manic that they want to kill their partners rather than sleep with them!" That was my mileage with it.

Swill
03-10-2017, 12:08 PM
Didn't realize that. I just found that out right before you wrote that on their site. I'll leave questions for them from here. You got enough people asking you for information.

I just got in touch with True North and they are sending me the information and forms. But if SWILL did it from the UK, I'm sure I shouldn't have issue from Boston.

Actually last thing, will I definitely need a referral provider from a doctor? Honestly don't know if either of my two doctors will be willing to do so for True North.


Yeah I did it from the UK... London into san fransico then theres a bus that gets you to the town where true north is, and you can get a taxi from there. If you ring them up they're great at advising with regard to logistics

Cdsnuts
03-10-2017, 12:51 PM
Yeah....very easy to get to from San Fran Airport

bruschi11
03-10-2017, 04:22 PM
Yup think its happening. I just spoke to Doctor Goldhamer- he's all for post fin guys giving this a shot.

I just really can't wait for this clomid to get out of me- see really how bad I am at a baseline. Been on TRT, HCG, now clomid ever since my crash. Truly believe these have held me back significantly. Baseline is going to be a pretty scary place I believe- at least I only have a couple of weeks of life I have to do then a nice 3 week vacation! Can't wait :-)

Cdsnuts
03-11-2017, 08:43 AM
Yup think its happening. I just spoke to Doctor Goldhamer- he's all for post fin guys giving this a shot.

I just really can't wait for this clomid to get out of me- see really how bad I am at a baseline. Been on TRT, HCG, now clomid ever since my crash. Truly believe these have held me back significantly. Baseline is going to be a pretty scary place I believe- at least I only have a couple of weeks of life I have to do then a nice 3 week vacation! Can't wait :-)

It's going to be far from a vacation my friend.....lol.

bruschi11
03-11-2017, 11:17 PM
Speaking about vacations... I saw you went to Tanglewood. Was that a better experience? True North I feel like I may just be in between walls all day- is that the case? I know enjoying nature and sun might be tough in such a decrepit state fasting, but realize it might be nice to be outside getting fresh air.

The Texas dude Dr. Cinque said he could possibly take me as well if I get off Ativan stable as I should.

Also thinking, maybe I want to stay in relatively similar climate so Boston and San Fran are similar. Might be best for that. Thoughts?

One other factor- I do need WIFI. Just need an hour or so to answer emails per day for work.

Just tough right now as I'd like to start this the weekend of the 23rd- 21 (14 fast, 7 refeed) days and be back for easter. Hiding this from my grandparents' is mine and my parents biggest concern lol and it sucks the holiday has to be coming up. Really thinking I gotta decide by Monday and settle with a plan.

Also, were 21 day fasts far more beneficial you'd say than the 14? Or very similar? The Tanglewood guy is saying 21 is best on his site. I honestly don't care how bad and how long I have to go through with this, I just want what's best for me longterm.

Cdsnuts
03-12-2017, 10:04 AM
Speaking about vacations... I saw you went to Tanglewood. Was that a better experience? True North I feel like I may just be in between walls all day- is that the case? I know enjoying nature and sun might be tough in such a decrepit state fasting, but realize it might be nice to be outside getting fresh air.

The Texas dude Dr. Cinque said he could possibly take me as well if I get off Ativan stable as I should.

Also thinking, maybe I want to stay in relatively similar climate so Boston and San Fran are similar. Might be best for that. Thoughts?

One other factor- I do need WIFI. Just need an hour or so to answer emails per day for work.

Just tough right now as I'd like to start this the weekend of the 23rd- 21 (14 fast, 7 refeed) days and be back for easter. Hiding this from my grandparents' is mine and my parents biggest concern lol and it sucks the holiday has to be coming up. Really thinking I gotta decide by Monday and settle with a plan.

Also, were 21 day fasts far more beneficial you'd say than the 14? Or very similar? The Tanglewood guy is saying 21 is best on his site. I honestly don't care how bad and how long I have to go through with this, I just want what's best for me longterm.

I'm going to say this again....fasting is no where near a vacation. Not sure where you're getting that idea from. But I'm assuming once you experience it, you'll understand. A vacation is fun. Fasting is not.

In regards to the differences....I prefer the modern amenities that True North offers as opposed to literally being out in the rain forest, cut off from everyone, starving for weeks with no distractions. Tanglewood was a test of mental fortitude, one which I would prefer never to do again.

I like having my day broken up with the doctors coming to test my vitals twice a day, lectures about heal, other fasters, TV, music, movies, etc. It makes the otherwise long and monotonous day go by.

Tanglewood....I had me and my thoughts, and the monkeys....that was it. It pushed even me to my limit, and that takes alot.

Dude....San Fran and Boston have no where near the same climates? San Fran has way nicer weather than Bean town does....easy.

I always recommend True North for the reasons I already mentioned. I wouldn't want someone to go all the way out to the rain forest and completely lose their minds. You'll have everything you need there, along with tons of support and company, should you just to accept it.

If you've never fasted before, then 21 days is the sweet spot. My very first fast I did was for 14 days, and I knew I could have done more. I wish I did do more. You want to only have to do this one time and the best way to assure that is to go for as long as you can the first time. You can stop any time you like so just because you shoot for 21 doesn't mean you have to do it if you can handle it.

bruschi11
03-12-2017, 10:44 AM
Complete sarcasm on the vacation part CD haha. I totally get it- this is going to be the toughest thing I go through other than probably my crash.

Thanks for giving me conclusion to head towards True North. I guess I was a bit off on the climate there- I'll be seeing 60s and 70s possibly during my stay.

And really, I appreciate all this info.

Cdsnuts
03-13-2017, 08:25 AM
Complete sarcasm on the vacation part CD haha. I totally get it- this is going to be the toughest thing I go through other than probably my crash.

Thanks for giving me conclusion to head towards True North. I guess I was a bit off on the climate there- I'll be seeing 60s and 70s possibly during my stay.

And really, I appreciate all this info.

The more people that experience what an extended water fast can do, the more people will end up doing them. Keep us posted during your fast. You're going to be in good hand.

Swill
03-17-2017, 02:09 PM
I'm going to say this again....fasting is no where near a vacation. Not sure where you're getting that idea from. But I'm assuming once you experience it, you'll understand. A vacation is fun. Fasting is not.

In regards to the differences....I prefer the modern amenities that True North offers as opposed to literally being out in the rain forest, cut off from everyone, starving for weeks with no distractions. Tanglewood was a test of mental fortitude, one which I would prefer never to do again.

I like having my day broken up with the doctors coming to test my vitals twice a day, lectures about heal, other fasters, TV, music, movies, etc. It makes the otherwise long and monotonous day go by.

Tanglewood....I had me and my thoughts, and the monkeys....that was it. It pushed even me to my limit, and that takes alot.

Dude....San Fran and Boston have no where near the same climates? San Fran has way nicer weather than Bean town does....easy.

I always recommend True North for the reasons I already mentioned. I wouldn't want someone to go all the way out to the rain forest and completely lose their minds. You'll have everything you need there, along with tons of support and company, should you just to accept it.

If you've never fasted before, then 21 days is the sweet spot. My very first fast I did was for 14 days, and I knew I could have done more. I wish I did do more. You want to only have to do this one time and the best way to assure that is to go for as long as you can the first time. You can stop any time you like so just because you shoot for 21 doesn't mean you have to do it if you can handle it.

Just to add to this, I was shooting for a 14 day fast with a 7 day re-feed, but they took me off the water fast at day 13... as CD said they take your vitals and bloods, and my kidneys were working hard and that and a few other indicators told the docs that I was done and reached where I optimally needed to. Everyone is different and the great thing is that you know they are looking at where you're at and you're in expert hands.

bruschi11
03-21-2017, 12:06 PM
Change of plans here- I sound like a tease.

But due to the severity of my adrenal problem- low cortisol leading to the body running on adrenaline rest of day, doctors and I have come to conclusion body is not anywhere ready for an actual fast. The body running on adrenaline causes bacteria from intestines to be moved into the blood stream toxicating it even more. Cortisol is needed to clean the body and that has to get under control before a fast can take place.

Once I get ahold of the adrenals, I'll end up going to True North as they are holding my money for my next stay. This may take awhile, but need to be smart here and be able to make the most of a fast.

That said, tomorrow will be day 1 of an 18 day or so juice feast before Easter. Mostly greens with some fruit. Plenty of asparagus trying to boost 5ar2 with protodioscin.

I realize juice is probably my best shot with the adrenal issue. I read about BrazilianDude on PH making a full recovery with 1.5 years of juicing. Honestly not afraid of doing something to that degree. Pretty much realize my life is over unless something drastic happens. I'm in pretty bad shape. I'll juice as long as I can to fix digestive system as I think that is truly my biggest weakness.

Can coffee (black) be included in a juice feast?

Swill
03-21-2017, 03:58 PM
Change of plans here- I sound like a tease.

But due to the severity of my adrenal problem- low cortisol leading to the body running on adrenaline rest of day, doctors and I have come to conclusion body is not anywhere ready for an actual fast. The body running on adrenaline causes bacteria from intestines to be moved into the blood stream toxicating it even more. Cortisol is needed to clean the body and that has to get under control before a fast can take place.

Once I get ahold of the adrenals, I'll end up going to True North as they are holding my money for my next stay. This may take awhile, but need to be smart here and be able to make the most of a fast.

That said, tomorrow will be day 1 of an 18 day or so juice feast before Easter. Mostly greens with some fruit. Plenty of asparagus trying to boost 5ar2 with protodioscin.

I realize juice is probably my best shot with the adrenal issue. I read about BrazilianDude on PH making a full recovery with 1.5 years of juicing. Honestly not afraid of doing something to that degree. Pretty much realize my life is over unless something drastic happens. I'm in pretty bad shape. I'll juice as long as I can to fix digestive system as I think that is truly my biggest weakness.

Can coffee (black) be included in a juice feast?

Entirely your call bro, but just be aware that most doctors despise the idea of fasting and you will be advised away from it always by those in conventional medicine. You do what is right for you, but just to mention that fact. Good luck.

TubZy
03-21-2017, 04:07 PM
Change of plans here- I sound like a tease.

But due to the severity of my adrenal problem- low cortisol leading to the body running on adrenaline rest of day, doctors and I have come to conclusion body is not anywhere ready for an actual fast. The body running on adrenaline causes bacteria from intestines to be moved into the blood stream toxicating it even more. Cortisol is needed to clean the body and that has to get under control before a fast can take place.

Once I get ahold of the adrenals, I'll end up going to True North as they are holding my money for my next stay. This may take awhile, but need to be smart here and be able to make the most of a fast.

That said, tomorrow will be day 1 of an 18 day or so juice feast before Easter. Mostly greens with some fruit. Plenty of asparagus trying to boost 5ar2 with protodioscin.

I realize juice is probably my best shot with the adrenal issue. I read about BrazilianDude on PH making a full recovery with 1.5 years of juicing. Honestly not afraid of doing something to that degree. Pretty much realize my life is over unless something drastic happens. I'm in pretty bad shape. I'll juice as long as I can to fix digestive system as I think that is truly my biggest weakness.

Can coffee (black) be included in a juice feast?

Adrenals are the back up reserves. There is an underlying issue causing it GABA deficiency, hypothyroidism, progesterone deficiency etc.

I don't believe in adrenal fatigue after I have been trying to treat it for the first 1.5-2 years coming off fin. Using hydrocortisone is also a double edged sword as well. I think you could also do more damage than good, the herbs would be the safest to modulate cortisol (meaning not let it go too low or too high).

In fact, here is my post from 2014, when I became obsessive in treating adrenal fatigue (PFS induced) and really made no progress after literally trying every possible adrenal supplement both natural and pharmaceutical.
Recovering - Mental Health - LONGECITY (http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/75751-recovering/)

Cdsnuts
03-21-2017, 06:33 PM
Change of plans here- I sound like a tease.

But due to the severity of my adrenal problem- low cortisol leading to the body running on adrenaline rest of day, doctors and I have come to conclusion body is not anywhere ready for an actual fast. The body running on adrenaline causes bacteria from intestines to be moved into the blood stream toxicating it even more. Cortisol is needed to clean the body and that has to get under control before a fast can take place.

Once I get ahold of the adrenals, I'll end up going to True North as they are holding my money for my next stay. This may take awhile, but need to be smart here and be able to make the most of a fast.

That said, tomorrow will be day 1 of an 18 day or so juice feast before Easter. Mostly greens with some fruit. Plenty of asparagus trying to boost 5ar2 with protodioscin.

I realize juice is probably my best shot with the adrenal issue. I read about BrazilianDude on PH making a full recovery with 1.5 years of juicing. Honestly not afraid of doing something to that degree. Pretty much realize my life is over unless something drastic happens. I'm in pretty bad shape. I'll juice as long as I can to fix digestive system as I think that is truly my biggest weakness.

Can coffee (black) be included in a juice feast?

The best way to fix your adrenal problem, is to rest your entire system, completely. Like in a fast. Nothing hit's the reset button better.

If you're including coffee in the juice feast, it ceases to really be a cleanse. It then becomes a juice diet with coffee in the morning.

Sticking to what is recommended is your best bet. Picking and choosing what parts you want to do and adding in other things has never really worked.

It's set up the way it is for a reason.

Snell1234
03-21-2017, 07:34 PM
The best way to fix your adrenal problem, is to rest your entire system, completely. Like in a fast. Nothing hit's the reset button better.

If you're including coffee in the juice feast, it ceases to really be a cleanse. It then becomes a juice diet with coffee in the morning.

Sticking to what is recommended is your best bet. Picking and choosing what parts you want to do and adding in other things has never really worked.

It's set up the way it is for a reason.

I know you're not a doctor and I should stop asking questions like you are lol, but based on your experience, does pine pollen help someone with low cortisol? Are there any of your herbs that you would specifically recommend for this issue? (And any to avoid in the initial stages).

Cdsnuts
03-21-2017, 07:42 PM
I know you're not a doctor and I should stop asking questions like you are lol, but based on your experience, does pine pollen help someone with low cortisol? Are there any of your herbs that you would specifically recommend for this issue? (And any to avoid in the initial stages).
Yes... and most of the herbs will help to correctly modulate cortisol.

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The battler
03-21-2017, 08:44 PM
Yes... and most of the herbs will help to correctly modulate cortisol.

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Hey cd, speaking of Pine Pollen, I dont quite respond to the tincture all that much.
So can i megadose on it, or is it only for the powder?

Cdsnuts
03-22-2017, 06:12 AM
Hey cd, speaking of Pine Pollen, I dont quite respond to the tincture all that much.
So can i megadose on it, or is it only for the powder?

I don't see why not.

bruschi11
03-22-2017, 07:20 AM
Damn I wrote a pretty long post explaining more last night and didn't get it on here. Oh well, I'll write again.

Well I had the adrenal issue (hpa axis dysfunction is really what it is) pre fin for 3 years. It ended up being preg/t3 with testosterone cream to fix it ultimately- only got 6 months out of it before I freaked out about the hair loss and highly elevated DHT (t cream) leading to 15 days of freaking fin.

Lets say I was 20-40% with adrenal fatigue, 70-90% before fin, and -1000% now literally -1000% the adrenal fatigue is that bad.

That being said, I know the ins and out of the problem- body running on adrenaline rather than cortisol doesn't just feel bad it is VERY toxic for the body.

It is just far too often this is the case since fin syndrome began to throw 5k and know the body is going to run on adrenaline for a couple weeks while fasting. Cortisol is needed for a fast. Knowing my body here, I think juice is the wise choice.

I've decided to kick the coffee and possibly do coffee enemas every other day or so to help clean liver during feast. Right now I think my only shot is cleaning and I'd rather it be the water fast (quicker, more efficient), but in my case I really have to believe juice is the wiser choice.

Today is day 1 and I just finished my first quart of juice- (made them all after work last night). I'm considering letting this go for quite some time up to 30 days will see how I feel.

I realize my life is ultimately over if I don't fix this or at least take major steps forward. Choosing the right path for my respective body is the only way to getting there and although fasting seems far preferred for the average PFS folk, I realize I am a bit different.

TubZy
03-22-2017, 09:43 AM
Damn I wrote a pretty long post explaining more last night and didn't get it on here. Oh well, I'll write again.

Well I had the adrenal issue (hpa axis dysfunction is really what it is) pre fin for 3 years. It ended up being preg/t3 with testosterone cream to fix it ultimately- only got 6 months out of it before I freaked out about the hair loss and highly elevated DHT (t cream) leading to 15 days of freaking fin.

Lets say I was 20-40% with adrenal fatigue, 70-90% before fin, and -1000% now literally -1000% the adrenal fatigue is that bad.

That being said, I know the ins and out of the problem- body running on adrenaline rather than cortisol doesn't just feel bad it is VERY toxic for the body.

It is just far too often this is the case since fin syndrome began to throw 5k and know the body is going to run on adrenaline for a couple weeks while fasting. Cortisol is needed for a fast. Knowing my body here, I think juice is the wise choice.

I've decided to kick the coffee and possibly do coffee enemas every other day or so to help clean liver during feast. Right now I think my only shot is cleaning and I'd rather it be the water fast (quicker, more efficient), but in my case I really have to believe juice is the wiser choice.

Today is day 1 and I just finished my first quart of juice- (made them all after work last night). I'm considering letting this go for quite some time up to 30 days will see how I feel.

I realize my life is ultimately over if I don't fix this or at least take major steps forward. Choosing the right path for my respective body is the only way to getting there and although fasting seems far preferred for the average PFS folk, I realize I am a bit different.


You are probably still recovering from the 6 months on TRT along with the T3. Your thyroid and natural T levels are probably still not fully recovered yet. Adding fin into the mix with already bad HPTA function can really throw things out of wack.

IMO, I been down the road of using literally all kinds of exogenous hormones pre fin and post fin. And yes you can get temporary relief but you are only setting yourself back again, at least that was in my case and many others. And now you want to go on HC which will shutdown your natural levels is even more a nightmare to taper off of (not even including the horrible side effects) and you could go straight back to baseline or even below baseline. I would just focus on using herbs, prohormones in small amounts, possibly even NDT or T3 (12mcg or less per day is not suppressive) to help push your body back in the right direction.

Cdsnuts
03-22-2017, 10:32 AM
Damn I wrote a pretty long post explaining more last night and didn't get it on here. Oh well, I'll write again.

Well I had the adrenal issue (hpa axis dysfunction is really what it is) pre fin for 3 years. It ended up being preg/t3 with testosterone cream to fix it ultimately- only got 6 months out of it before I freaked out about the hair loss and highly elevated DHT (t cream) leading to 15 days of freaking fin.

Lets say I was 20-40% with adrenal fatigue, 70-90% before fin, and -1000% now literally -1000% the adrenal fatigue is that bad.

That being said, I know the ins and out of the problem- body running on adrenaline rather than cortisol doesn't just feel bad it is VERY toxic for the body.

It is just far too often this is the case since fin syndrome began to throw 5k and know the body is going to run on adrenaline for a couple weeks while fasting. Cortisol is needed for a fast. Knowing my body here, I think juice is the wise choice.

I've decided to kick the coffee and possibly do coffee enemas every other day or so to help clean liver during feast. Right now I think my only shot is cleaning and I'd rather it be the water fast (quicker, more efficient), but in my case I really have to believe juice is the wiser choice.

Today is day 1 and I just finished my first quart of juice- (made them all after work last night). I'm considering letting this go for quite some time up to 30 days will see how I feel.

I realize my life is ultimately over if I don't fix this or at least take major steps forward. Choosing the right path for my respective body is the only way to getting there and although fasting seems far preferred for the average PFS folk, I realize I am a bit different.

I understand where you're coming from here, but based on what you're saying I can tell you don't fully understand the power of a straight up water fast. You're not running on adrenaline when fasting correctly. Actually, it's usually the calmest I've ever felt in my whole life was smack dab in the middle of an extended fast.

Regardless, you will get great results from a 30 day juice feast IF:

You do it right.

Make and consume enough juice.

Stay consistent.

It's a ton of work making the juice everyday and it's a major point of contention for alot of people. Even myself, after 45 days (I was going for 90) I said fuck it.

At least you're going to cleanse. It's one of the most overlooked and under utilized methods in the protocol.

bruschi11
03-22-2017, 12:18 PM
I have no life besides work and rest right now. Gym isn't even an option with severity of my fatigue except on weekend. So making the juice after work is what I got right now and that's about it.

I realize my biggest hope is detox to at least get me to a higher plain.

I do see myself heading to True North in the near future if all goes well with this feast.

Cdsnuts
03-22-2017, 12:49 PM
I have no life besides work and rest right now. Gym isn't even an option with severity of my fatigue except on weekend. So making the juice after work is what I got right now and that's about it.

I realize my biggest hope is detox to at least get me to a higher plain.

I do see myself heading to True North in the near future if all goes well with this feast.
If you make it 30 days on the feast you are most certainly going to be feeling much much better. You're not going to be cured of course but you are going to notice a big difference in your Baseline. This is what you start to build off of

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Durantia37
03-23-2017, 07:11 AM
For what it's worth, my cortisol felt way, way lower on a water fast than it did on a juice feast. I agree with CD about feeling the calmest I've ever felt on a water fast (and I only did 5 days). My personal suggestion for juice feasting (unless CD objects) is to start it off with two days of water fasting - this will get you calm quicker and get you over hunger quicker. You'll also appreciate the fuck out of the juice rather than it being a letdown.

Cdsnuts
03-23-2017, 11:22 AM
For what it's worth, my cortisol felt way, way lower on a water fast than it did on a juice feast. I agree with CD about feeling the calmest I've ever felt on a water fast (and I only did 5 days). My personal suggestion for juice feasting (unless CD objects) is to start it off with two days of water fasting - this will get you calm quicker and get you over hunger quicker. You'll also appreciate the fuck out of the juice rather than it being a letdown.

Actually that's not a bad idea.

Not necessary, but all the points you make are 100%

bruschi11
03-24-2017, 08:36 AM
I believe it on the cortisol front. I see myself going to True North eventually if results here are legitimate from juice.

On third day, really no major issues other than night one was very difficult for sleep. It seems like my body has already adapted to this environment and definitely more relaxed. Sure I wish I could eat and crave foods, but I'm way more depressed about my lack of life and penis than any food could make a person happy.

Cdsnuts
03-24-2017, 09:22 AM
I believe it on the cortisol front. I see myself going to True North eventually if results here are legitimate from juice.

On third day, really no major issues other than night one was very difficult for sleep. It seems like my body has already adapted to this environment and definitely more relaxed. Sure I wish I could eat and crave foods, but I'm way more depressed about my lack of life and penis than any food could make a person happy.

"if" the juice is legitimate?"

You should do some research on the results people get with extended juice feasting so that you can understand what to expect.

bruschi11
03-24-2017, 06:50 PM
Wasn't questioning legitimacy of juicing. Trust me I've done my reading, I'm just saying in my case. I.E. if I get results.

Considering switching to water during weekends. I mean this is a detox first and foremost. I figure a couple days of only water could only help.

Cdsnuts
03-24-2017, 07:21 PM
Wasn't questioning legitimacy of juicing. Trust me I've done my reading, I'm just saying in my case. I.E. if I get results.

Considering switching to water during weekends. I mean this is a detox first and foremost. I figure a couple days of only water could only help.

Yes, it can.

It will certainly speed things along for sure. That and it will make you crave the juice again.