Been a long time coming! Overwhelmed and don't know where to start.

[K8668B]

Today i finally, officially leveled out from the fast! It has been almost 3 weeks. I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news, and concerns, i will post after the good news.

Had some adrenal fatigue for awhile, and even on my days off, couldnt sleep longer than 6 hours if wanted to. Days and days of this wore out my adrenals. I learned that i can only do so much in one day, and i must calm that down. Well i still had to get up super early for work the last two days.. and i finally had today off, so i slept an amazing 9 hours!! Woke up, went to the bathroom, best shit of my life, and it completely cleaned me out. Zero gas afterwards. I am good! Drank my coffee, herb, and gym in the morning, and have felt almost euphoric all day!

The adrenals and gut/digestive system are very connected! So remember that! Even though i believe in and follow a high calorie/high protein diet which works for me, (within the paleo realm), i still try not to over work my digestive system.


Been on the herbs for 3 weeks just about now. I have not seen a new baseline sexually. I am doing the protocol. Yes, i DO feel great, things finally clicked over today, and i am high on life today, but ive felt this way before. Zero sexual progress. Im sick and pissed off at this shit. They have not made me worse, but im not any better either. I am the exact same sexually as i have been for awhile.

I have healed everything else that was wrong with me now, through this protocol. All but the sexual.

The herbs do not seem to work for me sexually. Im really pissed off and dont know what to do with myself, as far as this goes. The only ones that DO seem to work for me sexually are, horny goat weed, maca, and maybe tribulus. It doesnt matter the brand. I have responded well to prolab horny goat weed, and also have responded well to lost empire herbs horny goat weed.

They seem to work for literally everyone else though. I just wish they would work for me the way they work for everyone else. I keep hearing about many others getting the prestige/proverbial "spontaneous erections". And morning wood. While im frustrated, im happy for them, and i would never take that away from them. I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. I havent had a spontaneous erection in over a decade. I need stimulation for that. Before PFS, the wind could blow at my junk, and it would trigger a spontaneous erection.

Really fed up!

I am not a quitter, and never will. I will keep doing this protocol. But i am very disappointed in my reaction to the herbs.

3 days ago, i started to get really JACKED in the gym again! It has all come back almost. I feel great.

I was thinking that maybe i need to fast EVEN MORE, because i took actual propecia for 8 years on and off. I am one of the longest users of the drug. And one of the longest sufferers. But today i realized that i dont need to fast anymore. I did my research, and thought about things.

Cdsnuts recommends for pfs, either a 2 week juice feast, or at least a 2 week water fast. But he himself, did 45 days on juice, a 14 day water fast, and like three 21-day water fasts. But he says only one good long fast should be enough to do the trick. He was literally all alone in this... he was one of the firsts, if not THE first. He had noone to guide him in the right direction, like myself and others have him here on this forum. Maybe some of his fasts were unnecessary, but it probably doesnt matter to him anymore, because he is HEALED.

BUT... he also says it depends on how many fat reserves your body has. I have always, my whole life, had a super fast metabolism, and i am cut to the core. I have done 23 days worth of juice feasting, between two different long fasts. I realized today that i dont need to fast anymore.

I thought that because i was always in good shape physically, that i was "okay". But i definitely had PFS. That's why it took me so long to get here. I didnt get off the drug completely until 6 years ago. 7-8 years usage of the drug total (with a few breaks in between).

Im just pissed that these herbs arent giving me the sexual benefit like it does to everyone else. They didnt seem to work for me before my 7 day juice feast, after my 7 day juice feast, and after 15 my day juice feast. But i could always use the prolab horny goat weed capsules, and i respond to them immediately!

Like i said, i am not a quitter, and i will keep going forward with this, and continuing the protocol 100%. This is the only way, and the only thing that makes sense. Ill keep acquiring more herbs too. But man im frustrated with the herbs. Theyre legit for everyone else, but not for me. Only some. I am ordering pine pollen powder as we speak. The 250 gram big. For everyday use. And ill still be doing my 1-herb-a-day rotation on top of this as well. This is my last hope with herbs.

My true last hope is the DHT prohormone super andro rx (while in conjunction with the rest of the protocol). I feel great right now, no doubt about it. My body responds to training, and a good diet. But ive been down this road already before. I want the sexual back. I want the sexual function i was born with!!!!!!!

[Holistic]

I feel you man, I did too take poison for a long time and there are ups and downs. We are in a prison right now but we will escape no matter what. Keep on the protocol and we will heal no matter if it take months, a year and even extra fasting. Keep on man like churchill said " if you are going through hell, keep walking".



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[Maxout777]

You're not going to see a new sexual baseline or improvement from three weeks of herbs. This is a marathon, not a sprint. And if you don't change your outlook on that you're going to drive yourself insane constantly waiting on a change. It'll happen on its own time, you just have to make the environment right for it to happen.

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[TubZy]

Today i finally, officially leveled out from the fast! It has been almost 3 weeks. I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news, and concerns, i will post after the good news.

Had some adrenal fatigue for awhile, and even on my days off, couldnt sleep longer than 6 hours if wanted to. Days and days of this wore out my adrenals. I learned that i can only do so much in one day, and i must calm that down. Well i still had to get up super early for work the last two days.. and i finally had today off, so i slept an amazing 9 hours!! Woke up, went to the bathroom, best shit of my life, and it completely cleaned me out. Zero gas afterwards. I am good! Drank my coffee, herb, and gym in the morning, and have felt almost euphoric all day!

The adrenals and gut/digestive system are very connected! So remember that! Even though i believe in and follow a high calorie/high protein diet which works for me, (within the paleo realm), i still try not to over work my digestive system.


Been on the herbs for 3 weeks just about now. I have not seen a new baseline sexually. I am doing the protocol. Yes, i DO feel great, things finally clicked over today, and i am high on life today, but ive felt this way before. Zero sexual progress. Im sick and pissed off at this shit. They have not made me worse, but im not any better either. I am the exact same sexually as i have been for awhile.

I have healed everything else that was wrong with me now, through this protocol. All but the sexual.

The herbs do not seem to work for me sexually. Im really pissed off and dont know what to do with myself, as far as this goes. The only ones that DO seem to work for me sexually are, horny goat weed, maca, and maybe tribulus. It doesnt matter the brand. I have responded well to prolab horny goat weed, and also have responded well to lost empire herbs horny goat weed.

They seem to work for literally everyone else though. I just wish they would work for me the way they work for everyone else. I keep hearing about many others getting the prestige/proverbial "spontaneous erections". And morning wood. While im frustrated, im happy for them, and i would never take that away from them. I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. I havent had a spontaneous erection in over a decade. I need stimulation for that. Before PFS, the wind could blow at my junk, and it would trigger a spontaneous erection.

Really fed up!

I am not a quitter, and never will. I will keep doing this protocol. But i am very disappointed in my reaction to the herbs.

3 days ago, i started to get really JACKED in the gym again! It has all come back almost. I feel great.

I was thinking that maybe i need to fast EVEN MORE, because i took actual propecia for 8 years on and off. I am one of the longest users of the drug. And one of the longest sufferers. But today i realized that i dont need to fast anymore. I did my research, and thought about things.

Cdsnuts recommends for pfs, either a 2 week juice feast, or at least a 2 week water fast. But he himself, did 45 days on juice, a 14 day water fast, and like three 21-day water fasts. But he says only one good long fast should be enough to do the trick. He was literally all alone in this... he was one of the firsts, if not THE first. He had noone to guide him in the right direction, like myself and others have him here on this forum. Maybe some of his fasts were unnecessary, but it probably doesnt matter to him anymore, because he is HEALED.

BUT... he also says it depends on how many fat reserves your body has. I have always, my whole life, had a super fast metabolism, and i am cut to the core. I have done 23 days worth of juice feasting, between two different long fasts. I realized today that i dont need to fast anymore.

I thought that because i was always in good shape physically, that i was "okay". But i definitely had PFS. That's why it took me so long to get here. I didnt get off the drug completely until 6 years ago. 7-8 years usage of the drug total (with a few breaks in between).

Im just pissed that these herbs arent giving me the sexual benefit like it does to everyone else. They didnt seem to work for me before my 7 day juice feast, after my 7 day juice feast, and after 15 my day juice feast. But i could always use the prolab horny goat weed capsules, and i respond to them immediately!

Like i said, i am not a quitter, and i will keep going forward with this, and continuing the protocol 100%. This is the only way, and the only thing that makes sense. Ill keep acquiring more herbs too. But man im frustrated with the herbs. Theyre legit for everyone else, but not for me. Only some. I am ordering pine pollen powder as we speak. The 250 gram big. For everyday use. And ill still be doing my 1-herb-a-day rotation on top of this as well. This is my last hope with herbs.

My true last hope is the DHT prohormone super andro rx (while in conjunction with the rest of the protocol). I feel great right now, no doubt about it. My body responds to training, and a good diet. But ive been down this road already before. I want the sexual back. I want the sexual function i was born with!!!!!!!


For sexual you can also try niacinamide and caffeine or even high dose vitamin K2 MK4 only.

[Sploicers]

Like Maxout said, if people saw results sexually in 3 weeks, everyone would be on this rather than just us.

I think a lot of the sexual stuff comes from having the mind reconnect to your sexuality, and unfortunately that takes time. Look at all the positives. The fact that you are feeling that 'pump' at the gym again means your hormones are starting to come back. How much progress have you made in 3 weeks compared to the years before?

Dude three weeks is nothing! Thats 6% of a year. Sexual stuff always seems to come last from what I am reading. Keep going. You will be there before you know it.

[jjbradley2211]

Like Maxout said, if people saw results sexually in 3 weeks, everyone would be on this rather than just us.

I think a lot of the sexual stuff comes from having the mind reconnect to your sexuality, and unfortunately that takes time. Look at all the positives. The fact that you are feeling that 'pump' at the gym again means your hormones are starting to come back. How much progress have you made in 3 weeks compared to the years before?

Dude three weeks is nothing! Thats 6% of a year. Sexual stuff always seems to come last from what I am reading. Keep going. You will be there before you know it.

Have to second this thought. Tracking your sexual function is probably making it harder to make gains in this department.

Just think about bettering your life and how good you are feeling and I am sure the sexual function will follow.

As we've seen a lot of people who have taken rogaine believe they have sexual dysfunction from stressing themselves out then returned to normal after calming down.

[Cdsnuts]

You need to practice some breathing and meditation and really calm yourself down.

You have just heard the starting gun for the marathon that is the protocol. That is what the cleanse is and you just finish that

Not sure what you were expecting or what you were thinking but you have just started my friend.

I'm not going to sugarcoat it you have a long and winding road ahead of you with many ups and downs. If you can't get your head in the right place now it's going to make it all that more difficult

Be glad you finished the cleanse which you were dreading doing.

From now on you need to start living one moment at a time.

You know what you need to do now just put it together and do it.

The gains will come if you stay consistent over time.

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[K8668B]

Its all been said!

Good points. Heard fellas!

[K8668B]

My euphoria is back. Im definitely in a slight upswing. I just wanted to thank the recent people who posted in reply to the things ive been saying lately. Your words finally sunk in today and hit me. Makes sense. Feeling good.

My digestive system is feeling even better! My mornings with bathroom, cold shower, herb/coffee, music, and gym are amazing again too!

[Ridd]

Good to hear you're doing good man, keep it up!

[coppersocks]

My euphoria is back. Im definitely in a slight upswing. I just wanted to thank the recent people who posted in reply to the things ive been saying lately. Your words finally sunk in today and hit me. Makes sense. Feeling good.

My digestive system is feeling even better! My mornings with bathroom, cold shower, herb/coffee, music, and gym are amazing again too!
Keep at it man, you're doing great. I've been on the protocol for over four months now and it was only in the past six weeks am I seeing sustained progress on the sexual front. I still have bad days and there are still effects that im experiencing both mental and physical but it slowly, slowly gets better until it's not the only thing on your mind and one day your talking to a girl and without thinking there's something happening. My baseline is much higher now than it was but for a long time it didn't move at all. It will come mate, everyone of us starts at a different location on it but we're on the right road.

One thing I will add is to be mindful of the euphoria that you may get at times. The mood swings are real but if you can remain unaffected by both the good and bad and watch them both from within then they are easier to handle. Too many times I got caught up thinking that I was suddenly past all the mental sides with a rush of euphoria and dopamine and then for it all to melt away and I would feel like shit again. Reminds me of a quote from a great poem:

"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat both those imposters just the same..."

Remain focused on your destination but mindful of your mind and don't be swayed by it and you'll get there.

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[Cdsnuts]

As a reminder a realistic time frame for staying steadfast on the protocol is 6 months to 2 years.

Up and down, back and forth, good and bad.

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[Holistic]

Keep at it man, you're doing great. I've been on the protocol for over four months now and it was only in the past six weeks am I seeing sustained progress on the sexual front. I still have bad days and there are still effects that im experiencing both mental and physical but it slowly, slowly gets better until it's not the only thing on your mind and one day your talking to a girl and without thinking there's something happening. My baseline is much higher now than it was but for a long time it didn't move at all. It will come mate, everyone of us starts at a different location on it but we're on the right road.

One thing I will add is to be mindful of the euphoria that you may get at times. The mood swings are real but if you can remain unaffected by both the good and bad and watch them both from within then they are easier to handle. Too many times I got caught up thinking that I was suddenly past all the mental sides with a rush of euphoria and dopamine and then for it all to melt away and I would feel like shit again. Reminds me of a quote from a great poem:

"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat both those imposters just the same..."

Remain focused on your destination but mindful of your mind and don't be swayed by it and you'll get there.

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Good quote!

[K8668B]

Good point and quote coppersocks. Makes me feel good.

And CD, that sounds realistic. Thats what ive been estimating since the beginning. But in the last few days, since my 2nd fast (the big 15 day juicefeast), i stopped putting a timeline on my recovery. The sooner the better, but i was REALLY starting to put too much pressure on myself and burn myself out. It indeed is a marathon as opposed to a sprint.

The lack of funds also makes things take longer for me. But today my pine pollen powder arrived, but i havent opened it yet. And per tubzys recommendation i just ordered pure encapsulations brand niacinamide. That should be here in 5-7 business days. He also recommends stacking that with caffeine pills. But i figured coffee should be just as good. Maybe ill go ahead and order the caffeine pills later. Just need a break from all this online ordering. My new router is a slow POS! I miss the old one

[K8668B]

I've had this slight brain fog all day. I got a decent sleep i thought... slept a good 8 1/2- 9 hours about. But i havent had brainfog like this in MONTHS. its been a very long time. i dont know why the hell today either. ive always been a veiny dude, but today and yesterday my veins are alot less "crazy/vibrant" than usual. Ive been on the pine pollen powder for a few days now... not sure if PPP would cause this, but thats the only new thing ive been taking. along with the 12 other herbs i have at the moment and cycling.

[Cdsnuts]

I've had this slight brain fog all day. I got a decent sleep i thought... slept a good 8 1/2- 9 hours about. But i havent had brainfog like this in MONTHS. its been a very long time. i dont know why the hell today either. ive always been a veiny dude, but today and yesterday my veins are alot less "crazy/vibrant" than usual. Ive been on the pine pollen powder for a few days now... not sure if PPP would cause this, but thats the only new thing ive been taking. along with the 12 other herbs i have at the moment and cycling.
Par for the course dude. Whenever you're doubting yourself just go back and read all of the posts in this thread. You'll notice you go back and forth, up and down just the way it's supposed to be happening.

For some reason you seem to get upset every time you have a downswing.

This is how it's going to be until you're healed

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[Durantia37]

Everybody's doubting the pine pollen these days..it's a shame, that stuff is saving my life.

Just stick with it man. I'm right there with ya, it sucks ass when you have a downswing. But they end every time. Something you can do to help yourself through downswings: remind yourself that (so long as you stick to the protocol), THIS is the worst downswing you'll ever experience. Because you'll only be getting better each time.

[K8668B]

Everybody's doubting the pine pollen these days..it's a shame, that stuff is saving my life.

Just stick with it man. I'm right there with ya, it sucks ass when you have a downswing. But they end every time. Something you can do to help yourself through downswings: remind yourself that (so long as you stick to the protocol), THIS is the worst downswing you'll ever experience. Because you'll only be getting better each time.

Not sure if this is a downswing or not. It probably is though lol. What CD just said in his last post sounds exactly like me lol. I was actually feeling almost sick just about up until 20 minutes ago. drank some water and that made me feel better. what caused this i have no fucking clue. twice slightly earlier, my piss was extremely foamy. never had that before. pissed again just now and it looked normal. just 6 weeks ago, my thyroid, kidney, liver, cholesterol, etc.. all came back super healthy at the doctors. the healthiest it seems to have ever been. but im not supporting doctors. i still stand by my "screw doctors" attitude that i have been posting in other members posts today and recently.

and ive read about how well youre responding to the PPP. alot of people on here respond well to the herbs. im glad for you man. i dont seem to get anything from them. but i still do them. and i still keep doing the protocol. im never quitting. total testosterone levels were at 648 and 605 the two times i got them measured in my lifetime. super good physique, with a pfs dick. i respond very easily to training. my dick seems to respond to nothing though lol.. :/

ive been eating a crapload of bananas and apples daily. 2 of each a day. maybe one of these days i might have had more though.

I already talked to CD personally about this. so even though im posting this, i am not by any means asking again.

The only true thing on the protocol i am slacking on is avoiding xenoestrogen-like deodorants, soaps, toothpaste, etc. I just cant afford them... theres gotta be a way to get this right though. gotta be around this.

and vape smoking. ive cut back alot. i dont think vaping really affects PFS sexual though. if someone told me it did directly affect the sexual side of PFS... i would smash my vape on the ground, and never look back! seriously.. no lie!!! i would be smoke free!

breath work... i finally did it successfully the other night i think. it felt good. im finally working into this. i seem to get it in 2-3x a week at this moment.

and meditation..i just have to learn how to do this...it seems complicated to me at the moment.

super andro rx... i just want to eat you like candy. looking into it in 2-4 weeks.

[Durantia37]

Not sure if this is a downswing or not. It probably is though lol. What CD just said in his last post sounds exactly like me lol. I was actually feeling almost sick just about up until 20 minutes ago. drank some water and that made me feel better. what caused this i have no fucking clue. twice slightly earlier, my piss was extremely foamy. never had that before. pissed again just now and it looked normal. just 6 weeks ago, my thyroid, kidney, liver, cholesterol, etc.. all came back super healthy at the doctors. the healthiest it seems to have ever been. but im not supporting doctors. i still stand by my "screw doctors" attitude that i have been posting in other members posts today and recently.

and ive read about how well youre responding to the PPP. alot of people on here respond well to the herbs. im glad for you man. i dont seem to get anything from them. but i still do them. and i still keep doing the protocol. im never quitting. total testosterone levels were at 648 and 605 the two times i got them measured in my lifetime. super good physique, with a pfs dick. i respond very easily to training. my dick seems to respond to nothing though lol.. :/

ive been eating a crapload of bananas and apples daily. 2 of each a day. maybe one of these days i might have had more though.

I already talked to CD personally about this. so even though im posting this, i am not by any means asking again.

The only true thing on the protocol i am slacking on is avoiding xenoestrogen-like deodorants, soaps, toothpaste, etc. I just cant afford them... theres gotta be a way to get this right though. gotta be around this.

and vape smoking. ive cut back alot. i dont think vaping really affects PFS sexual though. if someone told me it did directly affect the sexual side of PFS... i would smash my vape on the ground, and never look back! seriously.. no lie!!! i would be smoke free!

breath work... i finally did it successfully the other night i think. it felt good. im finally working into this. i seem to get it in 2-3x a week at this moment.

and meditation..i just have to learn how to do this...it seems complicated to me at the moment.

super andro rx... i just want to eat you like candy. looking into it in 2-4 weeks.

Dude, I would so much rather be you. Sure, I respond to the herbs and I get morning wood every day, but I have alllll the other sides. Mental, physical, digestive. I wonder if my age has something to do with the fact that I respond well sexually to everything.

[K8668B]

Dude, I would so much rather be you. Sure, I respond to the herbs and I get morning wood every day, but I have alllll the other sides. Mental, physical, digestive. I wonder if my age has something to do with the fact that I respond well sexually to everything.


Lol... id rather be YOU.

Nah your age has nothing to do with it. I've been like this sexually for almost a decade. ive been as bad as i am now since about age 22 ish. now im 31.

I just didnt become aware of my pfs 100% until about january of this year. i guess i was in denial all these years. i still had and have SOME sexual function. maybe 35%. and i seem "normal" in every other aspect. and i was always in good shape, so i guess i somewhat would just lie to myself all these years. i was in denial. but trust me, i did have my years of searching and my trials and tribulations. even though subconsciously i knew something wasnt right the whole time. and i didnt discover or hear about PFS until late 2016/early 2017 like i said.

i think this is why i get really impatient at times. and when im having a bad day, or a downswing, i tend to get crazy over it more than i should.

[Ridd]

Lol... id rather be YOU.

Nah your age has nothing to do with it. I've been like this sexually for almost a decade. ive been as bad as i am now since about age 22 ish. now im 31.

I just didnt become aware of my pfs 100% until about january of this year. i guess i was in denial all these years. i still had and have SOME sexual function. maybe 35%. and i seem "normal" in every other aspect. and i was always in good shape, so i guess i somewhat would just lie to myself all these years. i was in denial. but trust me, i did have my years of searching and my trials and tribulations. even though subconsciously i knew something wasnt right the whole time. and i didnt discover or hear about PFS until late 2016/early 2017 like i said.

i think this is why i get really impatient at times. and when im having a bad day, or a downswing, i tend to get crazy over it more than i should.

hey bro, hope you're starting to feel the upswing coming on.

I think it's important to remember, especially in your case because you've been in this state for so long, that it may take you a lot longer to get to a healthy homeostasis again.

you're probably used to letting negative thoughts have an affect on you and your body is probably used to this sub-par state you've been in.

Most of my life I've had trouble controlling my negative thoughts and I've only really got control after much mindfulness and meditation- which I understand you struggle with.

Meditation is a process of calming the mind, but just as importantly, you have to be mindful and accept everything in your environment and in your head when you meditate. you accept the bad just like you accept the good and you realize they are just two sides of the same coin. this is the point of mindful meditation that will help you- you will no longer see this thing as negative, nor will you see it as positive, the goal is to simply see whatever it is, simply as what it is. you shouldn't have any sort of emotional attachment to your thoughts on PFS, especially negative ones, because they are not productive to you. always remember this- the goal of mindfulness and meditation is to re-frame how you see your experiences, you will eventually be able to filter out all of your surroundings and truly experience existing as a completely neutral being with no attachment to any thoughts that come into your head.

you have to look at this thing objectively, I've become very stoic after PFS, it has helped me deal with it tremendously. negative energy is what you may be used to, it's what I have been used to, you have to train yourself to not feed into that negative energy. every time something negative comes into your head remember that it will only harm you as much as you let it harm you. you have to accept these thoughts, every single thought you have when you meditate and look at it from a third person point of view.

you must think:
"Why is K8668B feeling shitty today- I'm in a natural downswing, and when I get in this state, it's easy for me to focus on my negative energy- why does my mind tend to wander towards negative thinking? because I think that my sexual health isn't where it needs to be. because I'm getting impatient with my recovery but I know for certain that with more patience and more diligence, I will continue to improve with even more natural upswings and downswings. there is no reason to believe that I can't get better because it has been done by people who were in my same situation."

this is how you should out think the negative shit that comes into your head. when a negative thought comes in, you let it go right through you, don't avoid it, sit in it for a second- and then just as easy as it is for something negative to come along, bring something positive along to balance that out- remind yourself this is just part of your recovery and that you will continue to make progress, and then, just as you did with those negative thoughts- you do the same as you did with the positive thoughts- you sit in them for a second, you accept them as being just as natural as negative thoughts, yin and yang, and then you let them go right through you and you return to an objective, neutral position where you should feel completely content and uninhibited by anything. when you get good at it, you will be able to balance out these negative thoughts and let them go through you within a fraction of a second, instead of actually having to sit in them for a while.

this is how many people, myself included, go at flushing out the negative shit- you look at it all objectively, you become as neutral as possible when dealing with your emotions, you see them for what they are- just a reaction that can be controlled. when you're truly in a meditative setting, you are simply getting a handle over all of the stimulation and energy coming into your world, accepting them as nothing more than what they are, and then letting them go through you as you return to your breath, to return to your neutral state of homeostasis where you are neither negative or positive. you simply are.

with this kind of mindfulness and meditation, you truly understand what you are, every little thought that comes into your head you should accept, analyze for just a moment on why it came into your head, and then remember that these thoughts, may they be positive or negative, simply are what is going on in K8668B's head, and nothing more than that. they are no more true than what you make of them.

with enough practice, this will become more natural, you have to keep at it every day, it may be uncomfortable at first, but your mindset will shift, and you will start to feel it in everything you do.

on the most fundamental level what are you? what are we all? we are simply beings experiencing the world around us, we cannot control the world, we cannot control what has happened to us, but we can control what we do in this moment- you can and do have control over your thoughts and how you frame this situation- now, will you see this thing as negative, or will you simply see it as what it is; just another step towards reaching a healthy homeostasis that will come with more work, patience and control over your thoughts?


you have power over your thoughts and over all of the negative stuff that can weigh you down. it is proven that your thoughts will have a very real, physiological affect on your overall health, so getting this control is crucial to our recovery, and you will get there with practice. all you have to do is sit there in a comfortable position in a quiet room with just your thoughts, as boring as it may seem, and accept all of the shit that flies into your head and find that neutral state, while focusing on your breath.

[Cdsnuts]

hey bro, hope you're starting to feel the upswing coming on.

I think it's important to remember, especially in your case because you've been in this state for so long, that it may take you a lot longer to get to a healthy homeostasis again.

you're probably used to letting negative thoughts have an affect on you and your body is probably used to this sub-par state you've been in.

Most of my life I've had trouble controlling my negative thoughts and I've only really got control after much mindfulness and meditation- which I understand you struggle with.

Meditation is a process of calming the mind, but just as importantly, you have to be mindful and accept everything in your environment and in your head when you meditate. you accept the bad just like you accept the good and you realize they are just two sides of the same coin. this is the point of mindful meditation that will help you- you will no longer see this thing as negative, nor will you see it as positive, the goal is to simply see whatever it is, simply as what it is. you shouldn't have any sort of emotional attachment to your thoughts on PFS, especially negative ones, because they are not productive to you. always remember this- the goal of mindfulness and meditation is to re-frame how you see your experiences, you will eventually be able to filter out all of your surroundings and truly experience existing as a completely neutral being with no attachment to any thoughts that come into your head.

you have to look at this thing objectively, I've become very stoic after PFS, it has helped me deal with it tremendously. negative energy is what you may be used to, it's what I have been used to, you have to train yourself to not feed into that negative energy. every time something negative comes into your head remember that it will only harm you as much as you let it harm you. you have to accept these thoughts, every single thought you have when you meditate and look at it from a third person point of view.

you must think:
"Why is K8668B feeling shitty today- I'm in a natural downswing, and when I get in this state, it's easy for me to focus on my negative energy- why does my mind tend to wander towards negative thinking? because I think that my sexual health isn't where it needs to be. because I'm getting impatient with my recovery but I know for certain that with more patience and more diligence, I will continue to improve with even more natural upswings and downswings. there is no reason to believe that I can't get better because it has been done by people who were in my same situation."

this is how you should out think the negative shit that comes into your head. when a negative thought comes in, you let it go right through you, don't avoid it, sit in it for a second- and then just as easy as it is for something negative to come along, bring something positive along to balance that out- remind yourself this is just part of your recovery and that you will continue to make progress, and then, just as you did with those negative thoughts- you do the same as you did with the positive thoughts- you sit in them for a second, you accept them as being just as natural as negative thoughts, yin and yang, and then you let them go right through you and you return to an objective, neutral position where you should feel completely content and uninhibited by anything. when you get good at it, you will be able to balance out these negative thoughts and let them go through you within a fraction of a second, instead of actually having to sit in them for a while.

this is how many people, myself included, go at flushing out the negative shit- you look at it all objectively, you become as neutral as possible when dealing with your emotions, you see them for what they are- just a reaction that can be controlled. when you're truly in a meditative setting, you are simply getting a handle over all of the stimulation and energy coming into your world, accepting them as nothing more than what they are, and then letting them go through you as you return to your breath, to return to your neutral state of homeostasis where you are neither negative or positive. you simply are.

with this kind of mindfulness and meditation, you truly understand what you are, every little thought that comes into your head you should accept, analyze for just a moment on why it came into your head, and then remember that these thoughts, may they be positive or negative, simply are what is going on in K8668B's head, and nothing more than that. they are no more true than what you make of them.

with enough practice, this will become more natural, you have to keep at it every day, it may be uncomfortable at first, but your mindset will shift, and you will start to feel it in everything you do.

on the most fundamental level what are you? what are we all? we are simply beings experiencing the world around us, we cannot control the world, we cannot control what has happened to us, but we can control what we do in this moment- you can and do have control over your thoughts and how you frame this situation- now, will you see this thing as negative, or will you simply see it as what it is; just another step towards reaching a healthy homeostasis that will come with more work, patience and control over your thoughts?


you have power over your thoughts and over all of the negative stuff that can weigh you down. it is proven that your thoughts will have a very real, physiological affect on your overall health, so getting this control is crucial to our recovery, and you will get there with practice. all you have to do is sit there in a comfortable position in a quiet room with just your thoughts, as boring as it may seem, and accept all of the shit that flies into your head and find that neutral state, while focusing on your breath.

Great post. Very insightful.

Just to add to this....the act of becoming neutral and non-reactive will in and of itself create a feeling of relaxed contentment eventually.

If you find meditation difficult, do the breathing exercises PRIOR to meditation. By hyper oxygenating your system and stimulating the vagus nerve your mind will be in the most conducive state to experience the most mindfulness you can given your lack of meditation experience. This practice also opens up the third eye, which will help you in your practice.

[Swill]

hey bro, hope you're starting to feel the upswing coming on.

I think it's important to remember, especially in your case because you've been in this state for so long, that it may take you a lot longer to get to a healthy homeostasis again.

you're probably used to letting negative thoughts have an affect on you and your body is probably used to this sub-par state you've been in.

Most of my life I've had trouble controlling my negative thoughts and I've only really got control after much mindfulness and meditation- which I understand you struggle with.

Meditation is a process of calming the mind, but just as importantly, you have to be mindful and accept everything in your environment and in your head when you meditate. you accept the bad just like you accept the good and you realize they are just two sides of the same coin. this is the point of mindful meditation that will help you- you will no longer see this thing as negative, nor will you see it as positive, the goal is to simply see whatever it is, simply as what it is. you shouldn't have any sort of emotional attachment to your thoughts on PFS, especially negative ones, because they are not productive to you. always remember this- the goal of mindfulness and meditation is to re-frame how you see your experiences, you will eventually be able to filter out all of your surroundings and truly experience existing as a completely neutral being with no attachment to any thoughts that come into your head.

you have to look at this thing objectively, I've become very stoic after PFS, it has helped me deal with it tremendously. negative energy is what you may be used to, it's what I have been used to, you have to train yourself to not feed into that negative energy. every time something negative comes into your head remember that it will only harm you as much as you let it harm you. you have to accept these thoughts, every single thought you have when you meditate and look at it from a third person point of view.

you must think:
"Why is K8668B feeling shitty today- I'm in a natural downswing, and when I get in this state, it's easy for me to focus on my negative energy- why does my mind tend to wander towards negative thinking? because I think that my sexual health isn't where it needs to be. because I'm getting impatient with my recovery but I know for certain that with more patience and more diligence, I will continue to improve with even more natural upswings and downswings. there is no reason to believe that I can't get better because it has been done by people who were in my same situation."

this is how you should out think the negative shit that comes into your head. when a negative thought comes in, you let it go right through you, don't avoid it, sit in it for a second- and then just as easy as it is for something negative to come along, bring something positive along to balance that out- remind yourself this is just part of your recovery and that you will continue to make progress, and then, just as you did with those negative thoughts- you do the same as you did with the positive thoughts- you sit in them for a second, you accept them as being just as natural as negative thoughts, yin and yang, and then you let them go right through you and you return to an objective, neutral position where you should feel completely content and uninhibited by anything. when you get good at it, you will be able to balance out these negative thoughts and let them go through you within a fraction of a second, instead of actually having to sit in them for a while.

this is how many people, myself included, go at flushing out the negative shit- you look at it all objectively, you become as neutral as possible when dealing with your emotions, you see them for what they are- just a reaction that can be controlled. when you're truly in a meditative setting, you are simply getting a handle over all of the stimulation and energy coming into your world, accepting them as nothing more than what they are, and then letting them go through you as you return to your breath, to return to your neutral state of homeostasis where you are neither negative or positive. you simply are.

with this kind of mindfulness and meditation, you truly understand what you are, every little thought that comes into your head you should accept, analyze for just a moment on why it came into your head, and then remember that these thoughts, may they be positive or negative, simply are what is going on in K8668B's head, and nothing more than that. they are no more true than what you make of them.

with enough practice, this will become more natural, you have to keep at it every day, it may be uncomfortable at first, but your mindset will shift, and you will start to feel it in everything you do.

on the most fundamental level what are you? what are we all? we are simply beings experiencing the world around us, we cannot control the world, we cannot control what has happened to us, but we can control what we do in this moment- you can and do have control over your thoughts and how you frame this situation- now, will you see this thing as negative, or will you simply see it as what it is; just another step towards reaching a healthy homeostasis that will come with more work, patience and control over your thoughts?


you have power over your thoughts and over all of the negative stuff that can weigh you down. it is proven that your thoughts will have a very real, physiological affect on your overall health, so getting this control is crucial to our recovery, and you will get there with practice. all you have to do is sit there in a comfortable position in a quiet room with just your thoughts, as boring as it may seem, and accept all of the shit that flies into your head and find that neutral state, while focusing on your breath.

Very good post. Learning to handle these things in this methodical way is a process, it took me time, but sooner or later a switch will flick and you will 'get it'... you'll learn to not get over the topic with the highs, and not to plummet with the lows, and when you get to a point that you can process it like this then you will find everything opens up and speeds forward for you.

Just keep riding the wave and learning as you go, its a process and you got this.

[K8668B]

hey bro, hope you're starting to feel the upswing coming on.

I think it's important to remember, especially in your case because you've been in this state for so long, that it may take you a lot longer to get to a healthy homeostasis again.

you're probably used to letting negative thoughts have an affect on you and your body is probably used to this sub-par state you've been in.

Most of my life I've had trouble controlling my negative thoughts and I've only really got control after much mindfulness and meditation- which I understand you struggle with.

Meditation is a process of calming the mind, but just as importantly, you have to be mindful and accept everything in your environment and in your head when you meditate. you accept the bad just like you accept the good and you realize they are just two sides of the same coin. this is the point of mindful meditation that will help you- you will no longer see this thing as negative, nor will you see it as positive, the goal is to simply see whatever it is, simply as what it is. you shouldn't have any sort of emotional attachment to your thoughts on PFS, especially negative ones, because they are not productive to you. always remember this- the goal of mindfulness and meditation is to re-frame how you see your experiences, you will eventually be able to filter out all of your surroundings and truly experience existing as a completely neutral being with no attachment to any thoughts that come into your head.

you have to look at this thing objectively, I've become very stoic after PFS, it has helped me deal with it tremendously. negative energy is what you may be used to, it's what I have been used to, you have to train yourself to not feed into that negative energy. every time something negative comes into your head remember that it will only harm you as much as you let it harm you. you have to accept these thoughts, every single thought you have when you meditate and look at it from a third person point of view.

you must think:
"Why is K8668B feeling shitty today- I'm in a natural downswing, and when I get in this state, it's easy for me to focus on my negative energy- why does my mind tend to wander towards negative thinking? because I think that my sexual health isn't where it needs to be. because I'm getting impatient with my recovery but I know for certain that with more patience and more diligence, I will continue to improve with even more natural upswings and downswings. there is no reason to believe that I can't get better because it has been done by people who were in my same situation."

this is how you should out think the negative shit that comes into your head. when a negative thought comes in, you let it go right through you, don't avoid it, sit in it for a second- and then just as easy as it is for something negative to come along, bring something positive along to balance that out- remind yourself this is just part of your recovery and that you will continue to make progress, and then, just as you did with those negative thoughts- you do the same as you did with the positive thoughts- you sit in them for a second, you accept them as being just as natural as negative thoughts, yin and yang, and then you let them go right through you and you return to an objective, neutral position where you should feel completely content and uninhibited by anything. when you get good at it, you will be able to balance out these negative thoughts and let them go through you within a fraction of a second, instead of actually having to sit in them for a while.

this is how many people, myself included, go at flushing out the negative shit- you look at it all objectively, you become as neutral as possible when dealing with your emotions, you see them for what they are- just a reaction that can be controlled. when you're truly in a meditative setting, you are simply getting a handle over all of the stimulation and energy coming into your world, accepting them as nothing more than what they are, and then letting them go through you as you return to your breath, to return to your neutral state of homeostasis where you are neither negative or positive. you simply are.

with this kind of mindfulness and meditation, you truly understand what you are, every little thought that comes into your head you should accept, analyze for just a moment on why it came into your head, and then remember that these thoughts, may they be positive or negative, simply are what is going on in K8668B's head, and nothing more than that. they are no more true than what you make of them.

with enough practice, this will become more natural, you have to keep at it every day, it may be uncomfortable at first, but your mindset will shift, and you will start to feel it in everything you do.

on the most fundamental level what are you? what are we all? we are simply beings experiencing the world around us, we cannot control the world, we cannot control what has happened to us, but we can control what we do in this moment- you can and do have control over your thoughts and how you frame this situation- now, will you see this thing as negative, or will you simply see it as what it is; just another step towards reaching a healthy homeostasis that will come with more work, patience and control over your thoughts?


you have power over your thoughts and over all of the negative stuff that can weigh you down. it is proven that your thoughts will have a very real, physiological affect on your overall health, so getting this control is crucial to our recovery, and you will get there with practice. all you have to do is sit there in a comfortable position in a quiet room with just your thoughts, as boring as it may seem, and accept all of the shit that flies into your head and find that neutral state, while focusing on your breath.

This was beautiful!


Yes i had been doing this... this has been my mentality since january/february. just knowing that there was a way to conquer PFS, and that this was IT, and that THIS literally makes and made the most sense, cleared my head for awhile. Ive been realizing that its not the world around me, its simply how im feeling on a particular given moment. Ive been saying alot lately "the battle is within our own selves". And the remedy is at YOUR very own fingertips. You have everything you need". And i truly believed this. I tend to let it all control me... i dont mind letting the euphoric highs control me, and i hate the negative lows. But both are a yin and yang effect. You have to accept both for what they are like you said. I think this is gonna take me alot longer because ive been in this state longer. That was the greatest post ever. Thank you. Ive been having a shitty day, but its gotten a little bit better.

I've probably only had morning wood about 4 or 5 times in the last 5 months. But ive felt great the whole time in literally every other aspect just because i had the belief in finally beating this. Then as time went on, and my fight towards this got even more intense, (the longer juice feasts, the new herbs, the PPP), i lost my edge for awhile. But now i realize that this is going to take longer for me personally, because of how long ive been in this state.

I had intense euphoria a few days ago. I even wrote an epic post on facebook. And i hate facebook. I think its garbage. I rarely even use it anymore since this PFS battle. But i was feeling so good that day, i wanted to share my thoughts. Alot of people liked what i wrote. I did however have one negative detractor who read my post (my own mother who took me to the doctor at age 16-17 for propecia), and she went on another account, and read my post because i set it to public, and she was able to see it. After this i deactivated my account. I had let my euphoria get the best of me. But damn it felt good though. She has been miserable for the last 20 years since my father, her husband died. She was nothing but negativity growing up. My father was bald too btw. Same with my 3 half brothers. Just sits in her own house, with her typical negative western american chemicals, and refusal to change her own health for the better, and her ANTI-HEALTH attitude. I live on my own and do my own thing. I have blocked out alot of negativity in my life in the last 5 months. Im in my own zen like world while i fight this battle. And on top of my sub-par state from PFS, i only knew alot of negativity in my life.. in the form of a few other family members. Such negativity was merely garbage, and should not, and WILL NOT prevail! I had been mistaken all those years. I now know whats real, and what the truth is! Its all on me!

On another note though, i seriously think in the last 3 days, as the pine pollen powder has built up in my system, (its been about 5-6 days now), i think ive been having an allergic reaction to it. i even got kinda sick a little bit too last night. I had my last dose of it this morning. My veins havent been as vibrant. And im a really veiny dude. And veins are a good thing i believe. But only this reaction towards the Pine pollen powder. So im stopping the powder, and still doing the one herb a day rule, and everything else thats on the protocol.

Meditation is the next new big thing i am looking into. Its confusing to me because i think on the website, it said you had to download and purchase an instruction manual or some shit. I dont even know how to go about this. If someone could just explain to me how to meditate, then id be good. its not the cheesy cliche, "sit indian style with your hands out and fingers crossed" type of stuff i hope. i must be envisioning it wrong.

im also starting super andro rx next week or the week after. i already almost back to my normal levels, and my weight is back in its normal range.

[K8668B]

I must control the lows and the HIGHS. as Ridd said. that made alot of sense. Swill has said this a crapload of times too. And of course, if anyone knows about this, its cdsnuts!

I do think for a few days though i was having an allergic reaction to the pine pollen powder.



When i was 25 years old, 6 years ago, i had my own apartment. I've been on my own since age 22, but have moved to many different places, until i finally settled into the place ive been in for the last 4 years now. Its a nice place.

But at age 25, i lived in my worst place ever. Sometime in the summer of that year, a few months after i turned 25, i remember sitting idle in my living room, and my big bathroom mirror on the other side of my apartment just randomly feel off of the wall, and smashed all over the bathroom floor. I hear that a broken mirror is 7 years bad luck. I was petrified. As hard as was busting my ass then, i was so frustrated. My mentality then was even somewhat similar to what it is now. And the first thing i thought then was "ive already suffered enough, how much longer do i have to go through this". I knew i was cursed then, but i didnt know yet at the time that it was PFS. Perhaps this broken mirror would symbolize my recovery. Meaning that at age 32, exactly 1 year from now, my curse that is PFS would finally end. Heheh... isnt this ironic?

[Ridd]

I must control the lows and the HIGHS. as Ridd said. that made alot of sense. Swill has said this a crapload of times too. And of course, if anyone knows about this, its cdsnuts!

I do think for a few days though i was having an allergic reaction to the pine pollen powder.



When i was 25 years old, 6 years ago, i had my own apartment. I've been on my own since age 22, but have moved to many different places, until i finally settled into the place ive been in for the last 4 years now. Its a nice place.

But at age 25, i lived in my worst place ever. Sometime in the summer of that year, a few months after i turned 25, i remember sitting idle in my living room, and my big bathroom mirror on the other side of my apartment just randomly feel off of the wall, and smashed all over the bathroom floor. I hear that a broken mirror is 7 years bad luck. I was petrified. As hard as was busting my ass then, i was so frustrated. My mentality then was even somewhat similar to what it is now. And the first thing i thought then was "ive already suffered enough, how much longer do i have to go through this". I knew i was cursed then, but i didnt know yet at the time that it was PFS. Perhaps this broken mirror would symbolize my recovery. Meaning that at age 32, exactly 1 year from now, my curse that is PFS would finally end. Heheh... isnt this ironic?

I think that's another mental thing, if you believe you were cursed, then you will always subconsciously carry that around, even if you don't realize it. but there's no reason not to believe that your spell will be broken next year and you will be fully recovered if you keep working ;)

you got it dude, you have it all in your head, now you just have to put it into practice some more.

there's a lot of articles you could read about meditating, but there's never one size fits all. CD rec's an app that creates binaural waves that will help calm your mind and get you in the mood to meditate. you don't need to sit a particular way, you don't even need to sit. you can lay down if you want, you just have to be comfortable and sit there with your thoughts for a while. wherever you are, whatever position you're in, just focus on your breath, and when you inevitably get distracted by your mind, focus on why that thought came into your mind, especially if it's negative, so that you can understand where those thoughts are coming from. realize that the negative thoughts are never justified and that worrying about them is in no way productive to your happyness. keep doing this with everything, and you will see PFS as something as common and as ordinary as the sound of birds that you may hear outside your house while you lay in your bed meditating. nothing will be good, nothing will be bad, nothing will be scary, because nothing is truly scary, bad or good. there is only you, and what you make of these things.

you can even meditate on things very quickly, while you're sat in your car, waiting in line, even when you're doing trivial activities, you can achieve this same sort of meditative state where you truly lose track of time and you simply become aware of only the moment and how you are simply a creature experiencing this moment.

[Cdsnuts]

Thoughts are things. They need to be controlled above all else.

Start practicing being present. Just like Ridd mentions here. In the car at a traffic light. Taking out the garbage, taking a shower, etc. Just focus on the here and the now and nothing else.

The sooner you get control over your thoughts, the better. Learn to accept what is and not put towards it any judgement. The saying "it is what it is" is one of my favorites for a reason.....because it's true. Learn to be an observer of your thoughts. Let them come, and let them go. Practice just being, and not reacting. The more you do this, the more centered and calm you'll become, the quicker you'll start to reclaim your mind and not let negative thoughts effect you.

If you want to dive deeper into this practice, I'm going to recommend you start researching Eckhart Tolle. He is the master at mindset.

PFS is not only beaten through mindset, but your whole life is controlled....or not controlled in the mind first.

When you watch his videos, the first thing you'll notice about him is how "in the now" he is. To most people at first, they can't get through his videos because their heads are all over the place. Notice how even in a room full of students he is completely present.

This is a fantastic life practice, PFS or not.

[K8668B]

Thoughts are things. They need to be controlled above all else.

Start practicing being present. Just like Ridd mentions here. In the car at a traffic light. Taking out the garbage, taking a shower, etc. Just focus on the here and the now and nothing else.

The sooner you get control over your thoughts, the better. Learn to accept what is and not put towards it any judgement. The saying "it is what it is" is one of my favorites for a reason.....because it's true. Learn to be an observer of your thoughts. Let them come, and let them go. Practice just being, and not reacting. The more you do this, the more centered and calm you'll become, the quicker you'll start to reclaim your mind and not let negative thoughts effect you.

If you want to dive deeper into this practice, I'm going to recommend you start researching Eckhart Tolle. He is the master at mindset.

PFS is not only beaten through mindset, but your whole life is controlled....or not controlled in the mind first.

When you watch his videos, the first thing you'll notice about him is how "in the now" he is. To most people at first, they can't get through his videos because their heads are all over the place. Notice how even in a room full of students he is completely present.

This is a fantastic life practice, PFS or not.

I will definitely look into that, CD!

An update. Im definitely viewing this now as a marathon as opposed to a sprint. Im not rushing it anymore. But perhaps despite having PFS, we all have our own individual symptoms, and are bodies are all different.

I've been a little bit under the weather lately. My veins havent been as freaky/vibrant lately, and i was freaking out wondering why. Well ive definitely been under the weather, and thats why. Especially today. Its my day off from work, and i needed to sleep in, and sure as shit i forgot to turn my cell phone off, and my alarm was set for 6am and it went off. I got to bed around 10pm-11pm the night before, which is good, but i was already having some adrenal fatigue built up. What a jynx, so that alarm really pissed me off! Couldnt get back to bed.

I was wondering if i may have had an allergic reaction to the pine pollen powder. I hear of people having allergies due to pollen in the springtime back up north. I suppose i had some myself when i lived up north, but i cant remember for sure. Ive been off of the PPP for a few days now. Not feeling better. Just now, i realized it may be the magnesium calm powder. Ive been eating quite a high amount of it lately. I sprinkle it in my protein shakes in the blender. If im not mistaken, i remember you CD saying somewhere to take magnesium on a daily basis at first, and then eventually limit it to every other day. I remember overloading at that same calm magnesium powder about a year ago, and having rapid heart beat/heart palpitations from it. And all day ive had this rapid heartbeat. Nothing crazy, but somewhat annoying.

Getting closer and closer to Super andro RX!

[K8668B]

Today is my payday from work!

I don't know what the hell it was that was causing my veins to not be as vibrant, but it definitely wasnt the pine pollen powder. So i got back on the PPP for daily use yesterday. While still doing the 1-herb-a-day rotation the whole time. I think i know the answer to why my veins are slightly "less" lately-----My veins are still good, but before they were more veiny than ever, because of all the euphoria i had when i discovered this protocol. Now, my mood is slightly down, (but not super bad or depressed), because i now know what ive gotten myself into, and that this is gonna be a LONG fight, like a marathon.

I'm doing well, constantly getting better in the gym. Almost back to my old look and old "genetic potential"... about 85% there already actually. Took longer this time, because that 15 day fast was longer than i thought! It makes a 7 day fast look like nothing!!

I think i have mastered breath work! It has helped. It definitely is ideal to do so upon waking, and right before bed if you can. I get it in a few times a week. I looked up eckhart tolle on youtube about meditation. Cheesy dude, but he is definitely in the moment. His videos can be long and very hard to understand for me though. I just have to learn how to meditate. It will take some adjusting just like the breath work did.

My dick has been in a major downswing lately too. Still havent noticed any progress on the sexual side yet. Everything else seems good though. Digestive system has been great, and seems to get better everyday. It has been almost 5 weeks since breaking my fast.

So question.... payday today..... Should i go ahead and order the Super andro rx and start a cycle? And is there another product i need to use while taking it, like something for the liver/kidneys? I heard you were supposed to stack something with it. Would it be too early to start the cycle?

[Snell1234]

I reckon do the herbs for 2 months first, taking the pine pollen powder everyday. It's better to take the r andro when your hormones are up.

[Holistic]

I reckon do the herbs for 2 months first, taking the pine pollen powder everyday. It's better to take the r andro when your hormones are up.

Agree, and look if physically at the gym you are doing good and also your digestion is good, sleep, etc. it only means one thing: you are right on the track!

Focus on the meditation and try no fap for one month. I personally would use that money and invest it in good food, and well being. Give it two months and see then if you need the r andro. You seem to be doing good, but must keep it up. What I noticed is that doing the protocol for 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks its easy. The hard part is the enduring a 100% in the long run: 6 months/ 1 - 2 years. Thats where the true grit shows.

Keep on brother, you can make it.

[Maxout777]

Today is my payday from work!

I don't know what the hell it was that was causing my veins to not be as vibrant, but it definitely wasnt the pine pollen powder. So i got back on the PPP for daily use yesterday. While still doing the 1-herb-a-day rotation the whole time. I think i know the answer to why my veins are slightly "less" lately-----My veins are still good, but before they were more veiny than ever, because of all the euphoria i had when i discovered this protocol. Now, my mood is slightly down, (but not super bad or depressed), because i now know what ive gotten myself into, and that this is gonna be a LONG fight, like a marathon.

I'm doing well, constantly getting better in the gym. Almost back to my old look and old "genetic potential"... about 85% there already actually. Took longer this time, because that 15 day fast was longer than i thought! It makes a 7 day fast look like nothing!!

I think i have mastered breath work! It has helped. It definitely is ideal to do so upon waking, and right before bed if you can. I get it in a few times a week. I looked up eckhart tolle on youtube about meditation. Cheesy dude, but he is definitely in the moment. His videos can be long and very hard to understand for me though. I just have to learn how to meditate. It will take some adjusting just like the breath work did.

My dick has been in a major downswing lately too. Still havent noticed any progress on the sexual side yet. Everything else seems good though. Digestive system has been great, and seems to get better everyday. It has been almost 5 weeks since breaking my fast.

So question.... payday today..... Should i go ahead and order the Super andro rx and start a cycle? And is there another product i need to use while taking it, like something for the liver/kidneys? I heard you were supposed to stack something with it. Would it be too early to start the cycle?It's not a methylated prohormone so you will not need liver/kidney support on cycle. Especially if you keep up the clean diet, abstain from alcohol, aka the protocol, while on cycle.

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[K8668B]

Agreed fellas! I appreciate the feedback.

Actually immediately right before i read your posts, i came to this conclusion on my own already, after thinking about it some more. Its been roughly 5 weeks since the fast. I have decided i am going to wait 3 more weeks until i start my cycle. Therefore then i will be at the 2 month mark. I know i said i was at 85% of my old "natural genetic potential"... id say im really at more 66% ish. Two thirds! Just by measuring my weight, numbers in the gym, and my overall "look". Im feeling great, but im going to let my hormones get back to full status before starting the prohormone cycle. Also it will give me some more time on the pine pollen powder.

No fap.. been doing well with that lately. Doing it on my own! I seem to be able to make it anywhere from 5-15 days. Im trying for 30 days this time. I had to let loose today... i got a huge testosterone boost from the gym. Good workout, and some hot girls in there.

And meditation... you know what? Now that i think about it, i think i HAVE BEEN meditating alot this whole time. Like today for instance. I have these moments where i "ZEN THE FUCK OUT"... like ill sit in my back yard, in my chair...with my eyes open, just staring at whatever the hell is out there, and just daydream and zone out. Would you call that meditation? Seems like it i guess. Not sure. But i DO do that alot of times. Especially when im feeling good.

And thanks Maxout! I will just use the Super r andro alone, when the time comes in 3 weeks. And definitely continue with the diet, protocol while doing it. I havent touched alcohol since november of last year. You know whats funny... i was always into bodybuilding/fitness... even before i fully became aware of my PFS, and if i ever drank alcohol... it always set me back a little bit. I would lose some gains in the gym. I went 8 months at the longest one time. Now i could care less about drinking/smoking, etc!


Wait a minute... did you guys say to wait 2 months from NOW to start the prohormone, or just 2 months in general, like after breaking the fast?? ........ .......I first interpreted the later, before i went back and re-read your posts.

[Durantia37]

Agreed fellas! I appreciate the feedback.

Actually immediately right before i read your posts, i came to this conclusion on my own already, after thinking about it some more. Its been roughly 5 weeks since the fast. I have decided i am going to wait 3 more weeks until i start my cycle. Therefore then i will be at the 2 month mark. I know i said i was at 85% of my old "natural genetic potential"... id say im really at more 66% ish. Two thirds! Just by measuring my weight, numbers in the gym, and my overall "look". Im feeling great, but im going to let my hormones get back to full status before starting the prohormone cycle. Also it will give me some more time on the pine pollen powder.

No fap.. been doing well with that lately. Doing it on my own! I seem to be able to make it anywhere from 5-15 days. Im trying for 30 days this time. I had to let loose today... i got a huge testosterone boost from the gym. Good workout, and some hot girls in there.

And meditation... you know what? Now that i think about it, i think i HAVE BEEN meditating alot this whole time. Like today for instance. I have these moments where i "ZEN THE FUCK OUT"... like ill sit in my back yard, in my chair...with my eyes open, just staring at whatever the hell is out there, and just daydream and zone out. Would you call that meditation? Seems like it i guess. Not sure. But i DO do that alot of times. Especially when im feeling good.

And thanks Maxout! I will just use the Super r andro alone, when the time comes in 3 weeks. And definitely continue with the diet, protocol while doing it. I havent touched alcohol since november of last year. You know whats funny... i was always into bodybuilding/fitness... even before i fully became aware of my PFS, and if i ever drank alcohol... it always set me back a little bit. I would lose some gains in the gym. I went 8 months at the longest one time. Now i could care less about drinking/smoking, etc!


Wait a minute... did you guys say to wait 2 months from NOW to start the prohormone, or just 2 months in general, like after breaking the fast?? ........ .......I first interpreted the later, before i went back and re-read your posts.

Two months after starting the herbs and normal protocol.

[K8668B]

Two months after starting the herbs and normal protocol.

Thanks Durantia! Will do! 3 weeks from now it is!! I am almost ready. I cannot fucking wait. This will be my first time ever doing a prohormone cycle. Over the last decade, i have maxed out naturally in the gym so many times. Ive always loved bodybuilding and training in general. I have a physique goal and a sexual goal. And of course the overall goal is conquering PFS, but its literally all tied in! This is so exciting! Ive had this image in my head of what i want to look like physically, and be like sexually, for at least 9 years now. This is it! Hope your progress has been going well durantia!

[Ridd]

Thanks Durantia! Will do! 3 weeks from now it is!! I am almost ready. I cannot fucking wait. This will be my first time ever doing a prohormone cycle. Over the last decade, i have maxed out naturally in the gym so many times. Ive always loved bodybuilding and training in general. I have a physique goal and a sexual goal. And of course the overall goal is conquering PFS, but its literally all tied in! This is so exciting! Ive had this image in my head of what i want to look like physically, and be like sexually, for at least 9 years now. This is it! Hope your progress has been going well durantia!

keep up that positivity bro, you got this. you have a lot of reasons to be psyched. keep grinding it.

[Durantia37]

Thanks Durantia! Will do! 3 weeks from now it is!! I am almost ready. I cannot fucking wait. This will be my first time ever doing a prohormone cycle. Over the last decade, i have maxed out naturally in the gym so many times. Ive always loved bodybuilding and training in general. I have a physique goal and a sexual goal. And of course the overall goal is conquering PFS, but its literally all tied in! This is so exciting! Ive had this image in my head of what i want to look like physically, and be like sexually, for at least 9 years now. This is it! Hope your progress has been going well durantia!

You're gonna love it man. Just make sure to get plenty of carbs and protein.

[K8668B]

It is all in the adrenals for me personally! Could secondly be neurological, but if my adrenals are rested, I have zero problems. I had a great rhythm going for the last few months. Despite zero sexual improvement, I would literally jump up out of bed alive, and energized like a mofo. Those days were amazing. Lately I've been mentally fatigued. Digestive system is great. I don't think it ever was bad actually. Adrenals!


Holy Sh#t!

I woke up today with adrenal fatigue and slight brain fog from my recent work schedule, and just now i did some more breath work, and it literally saved my day. in a matter of minutes it completely turned everything around. brain fog gone, huge testosterone boost, euphoric pulses, slight increase in libido, all this good stuff. Holy fucking shit! I am raging over here now, i feel ALIVE. i feel like i could destroy someone right now! hahaha

[Cdsnuts]

It is all in the adrenals for me personally! Could secondly be neurological, but if my adrenals are rested, I have zero problems. I had a great rhythm going for the last few months. Despite zero sexual improvement, I would literally jump up out of bed alive, and energized like a mofo. Those days were amazing. Lately I've been mentally fatigued. Digestive system is great. I don't think it ever was bad actually. Adrenals!


Holy Sh#t!

I woke up today with adrenal fatigue and slight brain fog from my recent work schedule, and just now i did some more breath work, and it literally saved my day. in a matter of minutes it completely turned everything around. brain fog gone, huge testosterone boost, euphoric pulses, slight increase in libido, all this good stuff. Holy fucking shit! I am raging over here now, i feel ALIVE. i feel like i could destroy someone right now! hahahaBreathwork when done properly and consistently is life-changing.

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[K8668B]

Breathwork when done properly and consistently is life-changing.

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Seems so!! It really is that fucking powerful! I love it!


My veins have been disappearing lately and its pissing me off. I always had some crazy veins. I think im slightly allergic to pine pollen powder, and especially the high daily doses of it. A few times in the beginning, about 2 weeks ago, i would take a hit of it, (like i do all of my other herbs), and it would almost cause me to get slight congestion and a stuffy nose. Im contemplating stopping it again for now. It personally hasnt helped me sexually or in any other why. I dont know why. I will say from reading the boards, it definitely helps alot of other guys tremendously. Most likely, 90% of men who try pine pollen powder will get great benefits from it. Maybe its my genetic makeup.

Personally, i still like the other herbs, and the 1-herb-a-day cycling regimen. I think its better for me personally. I never stopped that either. Im up to 13 now.

Despite seemingly zero progress on the sexual end, what honestly works best for me is getting a good nights sleep, cold showers, gym, HIIT sprints, good music, breathing/meditation, not overworking the digestive system, clean paleo diet, carb backloading, sun exposure, caffeine, etc. and other natural things like that. However, my sexual function has not gone backwards, either.

I am literally one week away from super andro rx. i basically have my old physique and levels/numbers back almost. this training game aint nothing new to me!

[Ridd]

Seems so!! It really is that fucking powerful! I love it!


My veins have been disappearing lately and its pissing me off. I always had some crazy veins. I think im slightly allergic to pine pollen powder, and especially the high daily doses of it. A few times in the beginning, about 2 weeks ago, i would take a hit of it, (like i do all of my other herbs), and it would almost cause me to get slight congestion and a stuffy nose. Im contemplating stopping it again for now. It personally hasnt helped me sexually or in any other why. I dont know why. I will say from reading the boards, it definitely helps alot of other guys tremendously. Most likely, 90% of men who try pine pollen powder will get great benefits from it. Maybe its my genetic makeup.

Personally, i still like the other herbs, and the 1-herb-a-day cycling regimen. I think its better for me personally. I never stopped that either. Im up to 13 now.

Despite seemingly zero progress on the sexual end, what honestly works best for me is getting a good nights sleep, cold showers, gym, HIIT sprints, good music, breathing/meditation, not overworking the digestive system, clean paleo diet, carb backloading, sun exposure, caffeine, etc. and other natural things like that. However, my sexual function has not gone backwards, either.

I am literally one week away from super andro rx. i basically have my old physique and levels/numbers back almost. this training game aint nothing new to me!

good to hear the progress man, just wanted to give you some of my experience with training- everyone's different of course but just something to consider.

I used to work out too much without really realizing it. I'd feel good and only go for an hour 4/5 times a week, but it was just too much for my body looking back. if you don't feel bad that's a good sign, but I definitely pushed myself too much at times and that can be super counter productive, especially in this time of recovery when we need it most.

[K8668B]

good to hear the progress man, just wanted to give you some of my experience with training- everyone's different of course but just something to consider.

I used to work out too much without really realizing it. I'd feel good and only go for an hour 4/5 times a week, but it was just too much for my body looking back. if you don't feel bad that's a good sign, but I definitely pushed myself too much at times and that can be super counter productive, especially in this time of recovery when we need it most.

Good point. Agreed. Funny you say that, because this girl i sometimes talk to at work, and she knows me fairly well by now, she says to me that the reason ive been fatigued lately because ive been overdoing it in the gym.

I was told in the beginning that my current training program was okay.

Well i always trained like this, for a decade. I could do 20 rep squats with heavy weight and not even get fatigued or sore. I dont even get sore anymore!!! Not even my LEGS!! I just get pumps all over my body, develop and build muscle, and actually feel REALLY GOOD. But lately my sleep has been not as good.

However, i am considering this. I do agree with you alot actually. As a matter of fact, tomorrow, i think im just going to take the day off from the gym, completely, and just solely focus on relaxation, the mind, peacefulness, breathing and meditation. Im already kicking ass with the breath work!

I might post some recent pictures of how my physique is looking. As much as im into bodybuilding and it would seem like i over do it, im usually only in the gym from 30-45 minutes. Im in and out.

Its all in the adrenals and cock for me. And thats "real talk"! I literally master my own mind and body more and more everyday. The power is in my own hands. I get closer and closer each day. I feel it

Im ordering R andro next monday.

[K8668B]

I've always had the "mind-to-muscle-connection". Its a very real thing! It's true. Now for me, this gym game has now become more than the gym game, it has become the propecia battle. That whole gym thing for the last decade was just merely a piece of the puzzle. It was one of the few positive things i was doing the whole time, during that decade of malnourishment. So i keep it now, along with everything else, and all the new things. Its the propecia mind to muscle, mind to mind, and mind to cock connection now! I dont care how goofy or weird that sounds. Im for real! I have alot of personality too. I may talk too much, but i dont care. Id rather be me than be a robot.

[K8668B]

This breathwork has really helped me out alot. I honestly dont even give a shit about my "symptoms" anymore. Im working on meditating too. A good friend of mine whom i grew up with, sent me a bunch of text messages, breaking down the process of how to actually meditate, so im gonna be trying that later on today.

Im not over analyzing and thinking about my symptoms too much. I honestly dont even give a shit as much. Breathing has helped out so much!!! I still feel good otherwise. But at the same time, that doesn't mean i dont want my sexual function to come back. It's still my top priority, but it feels good to have some relief, and to not have all this anxiety over it anymore. I suppose the anxiety will come and go, with the ups and downs, but im feeling better.

I've paid my dues. I dont have the old worries anymore. The stupid ass fucking worries of "oh, am i doing this wrong? or am i doing that wrong?" I am finally past that beginning stage/initial learning curve of where you think "you're not doing it right" type of shit. I know i am doing it all 100% naturally. I could do a little bit better on the avoiding xenoestrogens chemicals. Im gonna look into buying products by a brand called "TOM'S". I heard toms was a good brand as far as avoiding negative chemicals. Im not paying $50-$80 for toothpaste and soap. And i shouldnt have to either.

[K8668B]

It's payday again!

Im ready to order R andro. By the time it arrives it will be week 8. In the meantime, i am an extremely healthy, energetic, really fit guy who gets out of bed every single morning and grabs life by the balls each and every day. Everything just gets better. (Except for the sexual which has stayed the exact same.) I dont think i ever had any gut issues, but even my digestive system is the best its ever been. I can pound down alot of calories/protein/carbs, everything else, and almost have zero gas, zero bloating etc. All within the paleo realm too. I usually goto the gym or do HIIT on an empty stomach, with a herb and black coffee. I usally dont eat my first meal until about 4 hours after i get out of bed. I space my meals out better these days too. I had a high caloric intake for the last decade, before the protocol, and made muscular gains, but my digestive function was complete shit compared to how great it is now. Sleep is good too most of the time. I also literally look like a middleweight/light-heavyweight bodybuilder.

I wanted to ask someone on the forum, where can i order this product? Cdsnuts has the link for it in a sticky, but whenever i clicked on it, it shows nothing. I want to get it from a legit source. I dont mind paying an extra $20 for it, because i want it to be the right stuff and legit.

Now that the time has come, im actually slightly nervous. Not a bad thing, but you know. I dont mind losing my hair, as long as i make sexual progress with it. I hope i can at least get an increased baseline. That will give me some encouragement.

Its all been said before, so im not going to bitch and whine. I just really hope to get some sexual ground from this, because the herbs always didnt do too much for me, like they do for many others. And this training game, and sprints, ive always done this stuff, so it feels like the same old road at times. Only now i do it protocol style.

I could care less about more muscle gain at this point. i already have more than enough muscle. The sexual is the main thing. But i also might post some pics of how my physique is coming along.

[freefl0w]

Good luck man, you seem very excited, hope you will get good results! I just started the herbs some days ago but I am also super interested in R andro (though I got months before I start it) and was looking for the link where to buy it. It didn't work for me either.

[Maxout777]

It's payday again!

Im ready to order R andro. By the time it arrives it will be week 8. In the meantime, i am an extremely healthy, energetic, really fit guy who gets out of bed every single morning and grabs life by the balls each and every day. Everything just gets better. (Except for the sexual which has stayed the exact same.) I dont think i ever had any gut issues, but even my digestive system is the best its ever been. I can pound down alot of calories/protein/carbs, everything else, and almost have zero gas, zero bloating etc. All within the paleo realm too. I usually goto the gym or do HIIT on an empty stomach, with a herb and black coffee. I usally dont eat my first meal until about 4 hours after i get out of bed. I space my meals out better these days too. I had a high caloric intake for the last decade, before the protocol, and made muscular gains, but my digestive function was complete shit compared to how great it is now. Sleep is good too most of the time. I also literally look like a middleweight/light-heavyweight bodybuilder.

I wanted to ask someone on the forum, where can i order this product? Cdsnuts has the link for it in a sticky, but whenever i clicked on it, it shows nothing. I want to get it from a legit source. I dont mind paying an extra $20 for it, because i want it to be the right stuff and legit.

Now that the time has come, im actually slightly nervous. Not a bad thing, but you know. I dont mind losing my hair, as long as i make sexual progress with it. I hope i can at least get an increased baseline. That will give me some encouragement.

Its all been said before, so im not going to bitch and whine. I just really hope to get some sexual ground from this, because the herbs always didnt do too much for me, like they do for many others. And this training game, and sprints, ive always done this stuff, so it feels like the same old road at times. Only now i do it protocol style.

I could care less about more muscle gain at this point. i already have more than enough muscle. The sexual is the main thing. But i also might post some pics of how my physique is coming along.

Sexual progress for me came slow and didn't completely heal (libido) until the very end. Relax.....don't rush it or expect it to improve just because you're on cycle for the first time.

[K8668B]

Sexual progress for me came slow and didn't completely heal (libido) until the very end. Relax.....don't rush it or expect it to improve just because you're on cycle for the first time.

If im not going to gain some sexual ground from it, then i see no point in doing it. Well im not expecting to be 100% healed after one cycle, but im just saying, it would be nice to finally gain some ground in the sexual department. It feels like its been too damn long. Its been either 2 months on the protocol, or 5 months on the protocol. Plus the last 10+ years in general... where i had PFS but still didnt know what PFS was, and that it was my problem.

Seems like others have gotten great results from the r andro. And you, Maxout, seemed to progress quickly, contrary to what you said, (i think i remember reading about how positive your first experience with the R andro was). maybe im wrong. I wouldnt even risk using the R andro, if it wasnt going to give me some ground. Because the r andro will make me shed hair and go bald faster. I dont care about going bald, but i would at least have to gain some sexual ground. i wouldnt want to accelerate my MPB and not get anything out of it sexually, which seems like its been for me the whole time.

[Maxout777]

If im not going to gain some sexual ground from it, then i see no point in doing it. Well im not expecting to be 100% healed after one cycle, but im just saying, it would be nice to finally gain some ground in the sexual department. It feels like its been too damn long. Its been either 2 months on the protocol, or 5 months on the protocol. Plus the last 10+ years in general... where i had PFS but still didnt know what PFS was, and that it was my problem.

Good luck though man, I'm hoping you make some serious strides in this run!

Seems like others have gotten great results from the r andro. And you, Maxout, seemed to progress quickly, contrary to what you said, (i think i remember reading about how positive your first experience with the R andro was). maybe im wrong. I wouldnt even risk using the R andro, if it wasnt going to give me some ground. Because the r andro will make me shed hair and go bald faster. I dont care about going bald, but i would at least have to gain some sexual ground. i wouldnt want to accelerate my MPB and not get anything out of it sexually, which seems like its been for me the whole time.

I didn't say R Andro didn't help me immensely on my first run. It helped me really big time in the physical and mental department. The sexual department......eh, maybe a little bit. Not a ton though. I just didn't want you to set too high of expectations going into it because as we all know, with PFS it's crushing when things don't go exactly as we've been looking forward to.

[Durantia37]

I didn't say R Andro didn't help me immensely on my first run. It helped me really big time in the physical and mental department. The sexual department......eh, maybe a little bit. Not a ton though. I just didn't want you to set too high of expectations going into it because as we all know, with PFS it's crushing when things don't go exactly as we've been looking forward to.

Now that it's been long enough to make an objective evaluation of my experience, I concur. The main benefits of the first cycle were mental and physical, maybe the slightest bit of sustained sexual improvement.

[K8668B]

Well fuck it all then, i still do what i do, and have been busting my ass since the moment i came here. Im gonna order it tomorrow or the day after. I just gotta do some searching, because i want to get it from a legit source. I couldnt find it on the link cdnuts posted. Im planning for 400mg a day for 6 weeks. Well see what happens!

[K8668B]

Well ill be damned!!

Perhaps these herbs are finally starting to kick in for me a little bit. maybe it just takes longer for me because i took the poison known as propecia for a lot longer. A few times recently, ive been waking up with wood (sometimes, sometimes not), and at work, theres this girl that i like (not in an obsessive way), and just by her standing next to me, or maybe a little flirtation, ill get very close to a full erection, with zero manual stimulation. ive had a few other effects recently, when ill think about a sexual situation, and ill get some slight wood from it. all with zero manual stimulation. Also on day 15 of a nap streak i think. i stopped counting. Looking for 30 days though. I could end up having noodle dick tomorrow, so who knows. but these cant be bad signs.

Ordering R andro right now!

[biatch]

This is definitely a good sign! Keep going!!

[jjbradley2211]

Well ill be damned!!

Perhaps these herbs are finally starting to kick in for me a little bit. maybe it just takes longer for me because i took the poison known as propecia for a lot longer. A few times recently, ive been waking up with wood (sometimes, sometimes not), and at work, theres this girl that i like (not in an obsessive way), and just by her standing next to me, or maybe a little flirtation, ill get very close to a full erection, with zero manual stimulation. ive had a few other effects recently, when ill think about a sexual situation, and ill get some slight wood from it. all with zero manual stimulation. Also on day 15 of a nap streak i think. i stopped counting. Looking for 30 days though. I could end up having noodle dick tomorrow, so who knows. but these cant be bad signs.

Ordering R andro right now!

Great news man. Keep us posted about how the R-Andro Cycle goes.

[K8668B]

Great news man. Keep us posted about how the R-Andro Cycle goes.

I will! Maybe ill post some pics too. I might even start a log. Not sure yet, so well see.


Also my digestive system is the best its ever been. I can pound down the same amount of calories/protein as i always did, and barely even feel it in my stomach. It almost feels like its too good to be true. Man, i suffered for a decade. It was a long 10 years... i cant believe i ever got used to that shitty feeling. Barely even f*rt or get gas from it anymore sometimes. Lmao. Alot lately too. And thats alot of calories. But boy do i sure build muscle. I feel like all this stuff i do, goes straight to my physique, and then the remaining residual effects of it, like 3% of it, go towards sexual increases. Seems legit though. Better than nothing! So far so good! Ill take whatever i can get! I could feel worse tomorrow, as which is the case with PFS, but you never know! I'm never stopping this! =)

[Cdsnuts]

I will! Maybe ill post some pics too. I might even start a log. Not sure yet, so well see.


Also my digestive system is the best its ever been. I can pound down the same amount of calories/protein as i always did, and barely even feel it in my stomach. It almost feels like its too good to be true. Man, i suffered for a decade. It was a long 10 years... i cant believe i ever got used to that shitty feeling. Barely even f*rt or get gas from it anymore sometimes. Lmao. Alot lately too. And thats alot of calories. But boy do i sure build muscle. I feel like all this stuff i do, goes straight to my physique, and then the remaining residual effects of it, like 3% of it, go towards sexual increases. Seems legit though. Better than nothing! So far so good! Ill take whatever i can get! I could feel worse tomorrow, as which is the case with PFS, but you never know! I'm never stopping this! =)

You should definitely post pics.

[K8668B]

You should definitely post pics.

Sounds good!

[freefl0w]

Hey man, you mentioned quite a few times how good your digestion is.
Could you clarify it for me what you eat, if you are intermittent fasting how long your eating window is, if you follow carb backloading. And if you are paleo, do you include rice and potatos in your diet?
Could you write your approximate macros and an example of a training day meal plan and a rest day plan as well? :D
Thanks man

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man, you mentioned quite a few times how good your digestion is.
Could you clarify it for me what you eat, if you are intermittent fasting how long your eating window is, if you follow carb backloading. And if you are paleo, do you include rice and potatos in your diet?
Could you write your approximate macros and an example of a training day meal plan and a rest day plan as well? :D
Thanks man

This sounds like quite alot to ask of someone.....don't you think?

Follow the protocol. Problem solved.

[K8668B]

Ironically, the topic of digestion comes up.

Well i was just about to start my prohormone cycle. should arrive in the mail today or tomorrow, or soon. However, ive been hit hard financially, and i also cut the palm of my hand on glass at my work. My right hand. Its taped up. Gonna try to hit the gym today and see how it goes. Im worried. I need that hand to grip the weights. It doesnt hurt, but i need to see how it goes when i lift. So my mood has been down, from all of this. I do not need any setbacks. I have waited a DECADE to try a cycle of androsterone (in the form of super r andro). Im tired of being fucked with by petty trials and tribulations, that seem to prevent me from reaching the promised land. Its been over a decade. Enough is enough for real.

As far as digestion goes, i had a little problem last night. You see, these last 2 weeks or so, have been my best two weeks ever IN MY LIFE as far as digestion. it seemed to keep getting better. (ironically this occured after doing a 15 day juice feast). It was crazy, because my diet has always had high calories and protein. But lately i could consume it all, and literally not even seem to activate my digestive system like i used to, and barely even f*rt during the day these days! Its been amazing!!!!

Another thing i do that is really good for digestive, is dont eat right when you wake up. Go to the bathroom when you wake up, do your rituals or whatever, and start your day on an empty stomach. Grab a coffee, and take your daily herb. Then goto the gym or do HIIT sprints. I usually dont eat my first meal until about 4 hours or so after being awake. And then for the rest of the day, i will SPACE MY MEALS OUT, instead of trying to shove it all down at once. And i would still get all the calories/protein in, without ANY digestive issues. And thats alot of calories and protein. And also take spinurella and chlorella daily, and breathwork daily. Also carb backload at night. I use gluten free peanut butter sandwiches, and brown rice. I personally carb backload, literally almost every single day, due to my training regimen. Im very fast moving and active.

Last night, i ate the STALK of broccoli, and it slightly/minimally over acted my digestive system. Not alot, but it got me worried. I did my rituals this morning, and it carried into today even still too. I got a little worried. I hope i didnt regress. Im just not gonna eat broccoli stalk ever again. but that amazing digestive ive had for the last 2 weeks, i want it to continue.

but basically, yeah, like i said.

[Cdsnuts]

Ironically, the topic of digestion comes up.

Well i was just about to start my prohormone cycle. should arrive in the mail today or tomorrow, or soon. However, ive been hit hard financially, and i also cut the palm of my hand on glass at my work. My right hand. Its taped up. Gonna try to hit the gym today and see how it goes. Im worried. I need that hand to grip the weights. It doesnt hurt, but i need to see how it goes when i lift. So my mood has been down, from all of this. I do not need any setbacks. I have waited a DECADE to try a cycle of androsterone (in the form of super r andro). Im tired of being fucked with by petty trials and tribulations, that seem to prevent me from reaching the promised land. Its been over a decade. Enough is enough for real.

As far as digestion goes, i had a little problem last night. You see, these last 2 weeks or so, have been my best two weeks ever IN MY LIFE as far as digestion. it seemed to keep getting better. (ironically this occured after doing a 15 day juice feast). It was crazy, because my diet has always had high calories and protein. But lately i could consume it all, and literally not even seem to activate my digestive system like i used to, and barely even f*rt during the day these days! Its been amazing!!!!

Another thing i do that is really good for digestive, is dont eat right when you wake up. Go to the bathroom when you wake up, do your rituals or whatever, and start your day on an empty stomach. Grab a coffee, and take your daily herb. Then goto the gym or do HIIT sprints. I usually dont eat my first meal until about 4 hours or so after being awake. And then for the rest of the day, i will SPACE MY MEALS OUT, instead of trying to shove it all down at once. And i would still get all the calories/protein in, without ANY digestive issues. And thats alot of calories and protein. And also take spinurella and chlorella daily, and breathwork daily. Also carb backload at night. I use gluten free peanut butter sandwiches, and brown rice. I personally carb backload, literally almost every single day, due to my training regimen. Im very fast moving and active.

Last night, i ate the STALK of broccoli, and it slightly/minimally over acted my digestive system. Not alot, but it got me worried. I did my rituals this morning, and it carried into today even still too. I got a little worried. I hope i didnt regress. Im just not gonna eat broccoli stalk ever again. but that amazing digestive ive had for the last 2 weeks, i want it to continue.

but basically, yeah, like i said.

Dude...you're doing just fine. I know I've said this before, but you can't let every little negative thing that happens to you along the way derail your mindset. NOTHING you do (aside from taking another 5ar inhibitor) is going to set you back from the progress you've already made.

[K8668B]

Right on! Digestive is pretty much back to getting better again anyways. You were right. I need to stop panicking for real. Now im finally starting to stop the panicking and have a clear head, after 8 weeks. lol. Im finally leveling out. I did chest in the gym today, and my hand was fine. Thus far, i can do chest and legs, without my hand hurting from having to grip the bar.

Also ive read the other thread. We definitely dont want this place to sound like PH. I know im not as bad as some others, but even i myself too can get whiny at times, and i dont want it to be like that, and i dont want to be one of the causes. Even i myself can see how ridiculous that shit is. Ive voiced my opinion on that in the other thread as well.

I even almost had sex with a woman today!! Holy shit! Its been a year. was hugging on her, and fooling around, and i was already halfway hard from just hugging her. Her and i have been talking. To bad we werent in a professional setting, where people are nearby, and it probably wouldve happened. hahaaha. im definitely having some positive dopamine effects from it right now too.

My r andro came in the mail today. i got it from "strong supplement shop". i pray to god that its a legit bottle, and i got the real deal stuff and actual super r andro. i will start on friday!

[Cdsnuts]

Right on! Digestive is pretty much back to getting better again anyways. You were right. I need to stop panicking for real. Now im finally starting to stop the panicking and have a clear head, after 8 weeks. lol. Im finally leveling out. I did chest in the gym today, and my hand was fine. Thus far, i can do chest and legs, without my hand hurting from having to grip the bar.

Also ive read the other thread. We definitely dont want this place to sound like PH. I know im not as bad as some others, but even i myself too can get whiny at times, and i dont want it to be like that, and i dont want to be one of the causes. Even i myself can see how ridiculous that shit is. Ive voiced my opinion on that in the other thread as well.

I even almost had sex with a woman today!! Holy shit! Its been a year. was hugging on her, and fooling around, and i was already halfway hard from just hugging her. Her and i have been talking. To bad we werent in a professional setting, where people are nearby, and it probably wouldve happened. hahaaha. im definitely having some positive dopamine effects from it right now too.

My r andro came in the mail today. i got it from "strong supplement shop". i pray to god that its a legit bottle, and i got the real deal stuff and actual super r andro. i will start on friday!Why Friday? Start that s*** tomorrow!

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[K8668B]

- - - Updated - - -


Why Friday? Start that s*** tomorrow!

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Gotta make sure i have enough carbs/fruits at hand to eat just incase i get that fast-paced euphoric/anxiety effect, which ive had before even naturally. I got royally screwed financially this week. I swear i mustve gotten dbl-charged on my debit card somewhere on one of my purchases this week. Gluten free bread has been ridiculous lately. They discontinued this brand i liked called "rudis", and ive been paying $9.99 for the bigger loafs of a brand called "udis". also, my protein powder might run out early this week. gotta keep the calories high!

.......ehhh fuck it, why not? hahahahah.

[Maxout777]

Best of luck dude. Let us know how it goes.

[K8668B]

I will. One last question guys . Am I supposed to take r andro with a meal?
I would assume you don't take this on an empty stomach. So I would wake up, and 4 hrs later when I eat my first meal, I would take r andro?

[Master Mal]

Hey K, where did you order your R-Ando? I'm looking to grab some myself.

[Cdsnuts]

I will. One last question guys . Am I supposed to take r andro with a meal?
I would assume you don't take this on an empty stomach. So I would wake up, and 4 hrs later when I eat my first meal, I would take r andro?I always took mine first thing when I woke up like I would take the herbs. Some people get acid reflux from taking it without food but luckily I wasn't one of them

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[biatch]

Hey K, where did you order your R-Ando? I'm looking to grab some myself.

I ordered my R andro by Discount Supplements, Pre-Workouts Fat Burners Online - Free Shipping Over $50 (http://www.mysupplementstore.com)
Does any of you know if it is a legit/sure website where to order it?
There is so much crap in internet.......

[Maxout777]

Why don't you guys buy from SoCal Nutrition or Iron Mag directly and use the coupon codes given. I always try my best to give Rob (SoCal) first billing on my purchases because he backs this site.....which has helped me and helps all of you.

[Master Mal]

Why don't you guys buy from SoCal Nutrition or Iron Mag directly and use the coupon codes given. I always try my best to give Rob (SoCal) first billing on my purchases because he backs this site.....which has helped me and helps all of you.

I'd absolutely buy it from SoCal Nutrition, but the link CD sticky posted at the top of the forum appears broken.

[Cdsnuts]

I'd absolutely buy it from SoCal Nutrition, but the link CD sticky posted at the top of the forum appears broken.

It is, and I'm not sure why. I've been trying to get in touch with Rob for way too long.

Guys, like Maxout said, you want to buy all of your stuff through SoCal or other forum sponsors because that's why keeps this forum alive. ALWAYS try and purchase from these places FIRST.

[Master Mal]

It is, and I'm not sure why. I've been trying to get in touch with Rob for way too long.

Guys, like Maxout said, you want to buy all of your stuff through SoCal or other forum sponsors because that's why keeps this forum alive. ALWAYS try and purchase from these places FIRST.

With that in mind, is it still available at SoCal? Or is there another place to pick it up?

[jacknap]

yeah it hasnt been working for a while and I'm not sure if I can get it in Canada.

[K8668B]

I tried ordering it from the sticky, but i couldnt find a link or ANYTHING when i clicked on it! like you said. So i was recommended to strong supplement shop i think it was called. I would have preferred getting it from SoCAL, or IML first. I definitely support those guys, for all theyve done for us. Just hope i got the real deal stuff. it was not my intention to get it from anywhere else. I just didnt know what to do once i discovered that the sticky was broken. i paid about $120 for 2 bottles. i will order the 3rd bottle on monday. I plan on starting tomorrow. ill do so on an empty stomach first. Im looking to make a new thread, and upload pics.

[K8668B]

I seem to have been having less money, and less TIME recently! So many inconveniences.

i hope for real i didnt get a fake bottle.... omg.... i havent opened it yet, but yeah. reading these last posts just got me amped up. i know it wasnt you guys's intentions. my plan IS to start tomorrow. And on an empty stomach.

i need sleep right now... adrenals are down today... off to bed and off of the internet/phone, etc for now.

[K8668B]

Well, im pretty much injured. Got that cut in the palm of my right hand. But its taped up and doesnt effect my lifting thank god.

However, i woke up with stiff neck about 5 days ago, and yesterday it was pretty much 90% healed, until the last rep of the last set of my barbell bicep curls, where i seemed to tweak it again.

Adrenal fatigue today and yesterday, because these are my two work days of the week where i have to get up at fucking 5 am to be in for 7am. its these two days where i dont get as much sleep, and it literally fucks up my entire day. Id much rather be up at 7am and go in at 9am. So the adrenal fatigue has carried over into today too. Now my digestive is not as good right now due to the adrenal fatigue.

Pretty mad right now. Want to punch a wall. Ironically this all happens right as im about to start my prohormone cycle. How trivial. Some force is just fucking with me. Its just a jynx. I see right through it too.

Im gonna have to hold off on starting for at least one more day. But in reality id rather just start it, unless someone tells me its wise not to. But i had to put it out there.

[Swill]

You're doing your own head in again bro... everyone gets injuries and is tired from work etc. And recovery happens in spite of these normal inconveniences... just let it wash over you and go with the flow.

It's not gonna matter if you start the cycle today or tomorrow. But don't get stressed on analysing exactly how you feel every step or you're fucked before you start.

Train as you are, eat as you are. Maybe even take some time off here if it's making you feel stressed and analytic (I took a long time away from forums at a point I needed to and it really helped me mentally, you just get back into the old groove of living without thinking bout these places)... just do what you do and let what's gonna happen, happen.

Oh and the stuff will definitely be legit. 100% without question. Good luck.


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[Maxout777]

You're doing your own head in again bro... everyone gets injuries and is tired from work etc. And recovery happens in spite of these normal inconveniences... just let it wash over you and go with the flow.

It's not gonna matter if you start the cycle today or tomorrow. But don't get stressed on analysing exactly how you feel every step or you're fucked before you start.

Train as you are, eat as you are. Maybe even take some time off here if it's making you feel stressed and analytic (I took a long time away from forums at a point I needed to and it really helped me mentally, you just get back into the old groove of living without thinking bout these places)... just do what you do and let what's gonna happen, happen.

Oh and the stuff will definitely be legit. 100% without question. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI was just going to suggest this. I feel like when you check the forum and post so often about daily or weekly updates it tends to consistently remind yourself of what's wrong. Get lost in life again.

[K8668B]

LOL!! I feel fine today. Im quite relaxed right now. I realized how STUPID i sounded when i wrote those two posts last night/this morning. I get those anxious moments and theres no stopping me at times.

Thanks maxout, you basically told me to get a life! ;) JK hahaha. In all seriousness, i see what youre saying though. Even sometimes lately ive been deciding not to be so obsessed with the forum. All though i got super excited when i found this forum, (after a decade of hell), i became a little bit too obsessive.

I start tomorrow! Im just doing a deep reset on my sleep at the end of the day.

Right on, Swill!

[K8668B]

I've been taking R andro for about 4 days now. I got it from a random supplier. Either i got some fake sugar pills, or im just not responding to it. Today i will be ordering it from the ORIGINAL supplier, or socal nutrition. I havent gotten any positive side effects from it, or any negative side effects from it. Zero, nothing. Im still taking it, upped it from 400mg a day to 600mg a day. Im off the herbs at the moment as we speak. So off the herbs, and taking either these fake pills, or something that i dont respond to. I dont care about the money wasted, i just care about not wasting anymore time, and healing.

I havent responded to anything this whole time! Ive been doing this for 5-6 months now. I wouldnt expect to be healed by now, but i would at least hope for a 20% increase in sexual baseline or something. Many others have. I dont want to talk like this, and scare others away from healing themselves, but its hard to not get frustrated. Ill never quit, and this is my main protocol, but ill be doing more and more research to find things that may be beneficial for me. At this moment, i dont know what to do. I was so euphoric over this in the beginning.

I have women giving me their phone numbers, left and right, WITHOUT ME EVEN ASKING FOR THEM, and it doesnt mean shit to me. Ive been down this road before a million times. PFS has always wasted these beautiful women for me, for them to never talk to me again. I even have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen right now, giving me her number, but i dont, and didnt want it this early on. Shes been chasing me for awhile too. Ive been dodging her too. But she finally caught me one day. I dont want to waste her. I was hoping to save her for later this whole time. Without beating PFS, i have nothing. Ive seen the hamster go around the wheel many times for a decade. I actually get stressed now, when these women come at me like this. I dont want to waste another beautiful one, or go through any more embarassment. I really just want to focus on the protocol, and myself.

I recently discovered that its an adrenal thing with me. My adrenals are what got hit the most by PFS. Work schedule aint helping, with me having to be up at 5am on some days. Most normal people seem to not have to go into work until 9am at least. Ive even had a few days where im laid down in bed at about 830pm, but i seem to not be able to pass out sooner than 11pm, no matter what i do. My sleep schedule is still the best its ever been however. But i need to get it even better. I think i figured something out yesterday though. This is coming from a guy who had non-24 sleep disorder. It depends where my adrenals are at, because there have been times where i woke up with solid morning wood for 9 days in a row or so, one time, even with PFS a few years ago. i was nocturnal at that time when that happened. As ive progressed with the protocol, and learned all these new things, and have come closer to self-mastery, i can literally FEEL my adrenals now!

[Swill]

If you did get it from that place I mentioned to you bro, then I can 100% vouch for them they're an official supplier of IML products, so it would absolutely not be a sugar pill, I did my research.

Keep your head up, I non responded plenty before I found what worked for me bro.

Would be good if one of the sponsors could drop us a link on here so we can pick up with them next time though... 100% agree with that.


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[coppersocks]

I've been taking R andro for about 4 days now. I got it from a random supplier. Either i got some fake sugar pills, or im just not responding to it. Today i will be ordering it from the ORIGINAL supplier, or socal nutrition. I havent gotten any positive side effects from it, or any negative side effects from it. Zero, nothing. Im still taking it, upped it from 400mg a day to 600mg a day. Im off the herbs at the moment as we speak. So off the herbs, and taking either these fake pills, or something that i dont respond to. I dont care about the money wasted, i just care about not wasting anymore time, and healing.

I havent responded to anything this whole time! Ive been doing this for 5-6 months now. I wouldnt expect to be healed by now, but i would at least hope for a 20% increase in sexual baseline or something. Many others have. I dont want to talk like this, and scare others away from healing themselves, but its hard to not get frustrated. Ill never quit, and this is my main protocol, but ill be doing more and more research to find things that may be beneficial for me. At this moment, i dont know what to do. I was so euphoric over this in the beginning.

I have women giving me their phone numbers, left and right, WITHOUT ME EVEN ASKING FOR THEM, and it doesnt mean shit to me. Ive been down this road before a million times. PFS has always wasted these beautiful women for me, for them to never talk to me again. I even have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen right now, giving me her number, but i dont, and didnt want it this early on. Shes been chasing me for awhile too. Ive been dodging her too. But she finally caught me one day. I dont want to waste her. I was hoping to save her for later this whole time. Without beating PFS, i have nothing. Ive seen the hamster go around the wheel many times for a decade. I actually get stressed now, when these women come at me like this. I dont want to waste another beautiful one, or go through any more embarassment. I really just want to focus on the protocol, and myself.

I recently discovered that its an adrenal thing with me. My adrenals are what got hit the most by PFS. Work schedule aint helping, with me having to be up at 5am on some days. Most normal people seem to not have to go into work until 9am at least. Ive even had a few days where im laid down in bed at about 830pm, but i seem to not be able to pass out sooner than 11pm, no matter what i do. My sleep schedule is still the best its ever been however. But i need to get it even better. I think i figured something out yesterday though. This is coming from a guy who had non-24 sleep disorder. It depends where my adrenals are at, because there have been times where i woke up with solid morning wood for 9 days in a row or so, one time, even with PFS a few years ago. i was nocturnal at that time when that happened. As ive progressed with the protocol, and learned all these new things, and have come closer to self-mastery, i can literally FEEL my adrenals now!Mate four days is nothing. I didn't get any notable response until about 14 days in. Keep at it, let it build up in your system. I'll be surprised if you don't notice anything at all by the end of your cycle. Don't expect miracles as my sex drive still seemed to be in waves whilst on but just keep at it as it will move the needle some.

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[Snell1234]

I've been taking R andro for about 4 days now. I got it from a random supplier. Either i got some fake sugar pills, or im just not responding to it. Today i will be ordering it from the ORIGINAL supplier, or socal nutrition. I havent gotten any positive side effects from it, or any negative side effects from it. Zero, nothing. Im still taking it, upped it from 400mg a day to 600mg a day. Im off the herbs at the moment as we speak. So off the herbs, and taking either these fake pills, or something that i dont respond to. I dont care about the money wasted, i just care about not wasting anymore time, and healing.

I havent responded to anything this whole time! Ive been doing this for 5-6 months now. I wouldnt expect to be healed by now, but i would at least hope for a 20% increase in sexual baseline or something. Many others have. I dont want to talk like this, and scare others away from healing themselves, but its hard to not get frustrated. Ill never quit, and this is my main protocol, but ill be doing more and more research to find things that may be beneficial for me. At this moment, i dont know what to do. I was so euphoric over this in the beginning.

I have women giving me their phone numbers, left and right, WITHOUT ME EVEN ASKING FOR THEM, and it doesnt mean shit to me. Ive been down this road before a million times. PFS has always wasted these beautiful women for me, for them to never talk to me again. I even have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen right now, giving me her number, but i dont, and didnt want it this early on. Shes been chasing me for awhile too. Ive been dodging her too. But she finally caught me one day. I dont want to waste her. I was hoping to save her for later this whole time. Without beating PFS, i have nothing. Ive seen the hamster go around the wheel many times for a decade. I actually get stressed now, when these women come at me like this. I dont want to waste another beautiful one, or go through any more embarassment. I really just want to focus on the protocol, and myself.

I recently discovered that its an adrenal thing with me. My adrenals are what got hit the most by PFS. Work schedule aint helping, with me having to be up at 5am on some days. Most normal people seem to not have to go into work until 9am at least. Ive even had a few days where im laid down in bed at about 830pm, but i seem to not be able to pass out sooner than 11pm, no matter what i do. My sleep schedule is still the best its ever been however. But i need to get it even better. I think i figured something out yesterday though. This is coming from a guy who had non-24 sleep disorder. It depends where my adrenals are at, because there have been times where i woke up with solid morning wood for 9 days in a row or so, one time, even with PFS a few years ago. i was nocturnal at that time when that happened. As ive progressed with the protocol, and learned all these new things, and have come closer to self-mastery, i can literally FEEL my adrenals now!
Give it time. It's been 4 days. It takes time for these things to work.

Take it as a positive that it doesn't give you extreme anxiety.

Sit back, keep taking it and judge in 6 weeks time!

[biatch]

Give it time. It's been 4 days. It takes time for these things to work.

Take it as a positive that it doesn't give you extreme anxiety.

Sit back, keep taking it and judge in 6 weeks time!

I quote the same of what Snell said, Take it as a positive that it doesn't give you extreme anxiety and give more time since you feel good on it.

[K8668B]

I know since ive been under this condition for so long, that its gonna take me a little bit longer to recover, as ive been told. Ive been taking R andro for about 18 days. I havent felt shit. Zero negative, zero positive. Usually if something works for me, ill feel it right away. Should i drop the cycle, and go back to the herbs, or should i continue with the cycle?

[coppersocks]

I know since ive been under this condition for so long, that its gonna take me a little bit longer to recover, as ive been told. Ive been taking R andro for about 18 days. I havent felt shit. Zero negative, zero positive. Usually if something works for me, ill feel it right away. Should i drop the cycle, and go back to the herbs, or should i continue with the cycle?In my opinion you should continue. You're not even half way through and your sexual baseline may have been so low for so long that it'll just take longer to move the needle in an amount that is noticable to you. Just because you don't feel anything subjectivly doesn't mean that the chemical reaction isn't doing anything that on a biological level. Just my two cents.

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[CannonBalls]

With my experience I've felt like I've leveled up baseline wise after each round of R Andro. The first time I didn't feel much of anything. Finish the cycle and see how you feel after. If you're like me you'll notice you've leveled up a few days after the cycle.

[K8668B]

Right on. I appreciate the feedback. I'll keep going then. I have 2 in a half bottles left. Been dosing at 600mg a day lately, where a few days ill only get up to 400mg for whatever reason. Its crazy though, despite not feeling anything, muscle-wise, or sexual-wise, i still havent gotten the dreaded "hairloss/hair shedding" that many have reported while cycling this stuff either.

Ive plateaued in the gym too. At my same old levels. incline benching 225x3, flat benching 225x 9.5, flat bench 280x1, constantly rising limit-less squat strength like before, and all of my other lifts, and my look is the same.

Good news is that ive found some new spots to do my sprints at. Im still getting everything in.

Ordered some glycine powder and thinking about getting ziziphus. sleep/adrenals is important to me. trying to be in bed super early each night. also working on getting some good legit probiotics next.

[K8668B]

And also, why the fuck are my veins disappearing?... i always had some awesome veins. about 6 weeks after my 2nd juice feast, i started noticing this. theyre not as good as they were before. as far as im concerned, i dont want to lose them, and i would only assume by doing what im doing, they should get better.

Could it be too much kale, or spinach, or mag powder, or too much vitamin d3?

[Hulk Smash]

Im not sure why my veins disappeared recently either.

I've theorized a few possibilities.

One being that muscle atrophy has left me with excess skin which is now hiding my veins.

The other being some lack in nitrous oxide.

Third is that I'm lacking something that is crucial to vitality. Meaning that I associate veins showing with strong healthy blood flow/energy.

But I'll disregard the third theory because it seems you've been getting stronger and I'd imagine that to be impossible if you lacked healthy blood flow and energy.

so could be theory 1 or 2.
I'm also thinking mitochondria but idk.

[bizzbee]

That's strange that you're not responding. I responded within hours. Still reaping benefits after 2nd week. I hope you decide to see it through to the end.

[K8668B]

Great, now a huge hurricane is hitting the state of Florida. And I'm getting sick too. While fighting this huge battle. See how I get fucked with??? Lolllll . I'm not disregarding your replies. But news of this big hurricane just hit. I might have to evacuate, and pack my stuff with me. Medicines/herbs/prohormones, that I use to fight this battle. I might be out of the gym and hiit for a bit too.

[Swill]

Don't let it get on top of you bro... breathe...

Stay safe.


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[Snell1234]

Great, now a huge hurricane is hitting the state of Florida. And I'm getting sick too. While fighting this huge battle. See how I get fucked with??? Lolllll . I'm not disregarding your replies. But news of this big hurricane just hit. I might have to evacuate, and pack my stuff with me. Medicines/herbs/prohormones, that I use to fight this battle. I might be out of the gym and hiit for a bit too.
Stay safe and keep those herbs and prohormones safe too!

[K8668B]

Thanks fellas, will do! Appreciate your concerns!

On another note, this is just getting to be too much. I think about this "battle" way too much, and im letting it control my life. Im at the point where i know how to do this protocol instinctively now. Im sick of thinking about PFS 24/7. Theres so much more to me as a person than "my battle with PFS". I just want to feel free for once. I know what to do and how to do it and will continue... whether im a slow responder, or a fast responder, its irrelevant. The fact that im busting my ass and not responding to anything, is indeed bullshit, but once again its irrelevant. I just want to enjoy myself. I have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen (IMO) coming at me, and shes really into me. I naturally am really into her too... i just want to stop thinking about pfs for a little bit...

strangely getting somewhat sick today kept my mind off of shit a little bit.

[biatch]

We are in the same boat, difficult to don't think about it..go to see some friends, try to do something with other people.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks fellas, will do! Appreciate your concerns!

On another note, this is just getting to be too much. I think about this "battle" way too much, and im letting it control my life. Im at the point where i know how to do this protocol instinctively now. Im sick of thinking about PFS 24/7. Theres so much more to me as a person than "my battle with PFS". I just want to feel free for once. I know what to do and how to do it and will continue... whether im a slow responder, or a fast responder, its irrelevant. The fact that im busting my ass and not responding to anything, is indeed bullshit, but once again its irrelevant. I just want to enjoy myself. I have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen (IMO) coming at me, and shes really into me. I naturally am really into her too... i just want to stop thinking about pfs for a little bit...

strangely getting somewhat sick today kept my mind off of shit a little bit.

I don't understand you.

You've made posts about how great you're feeling and how this is working so good, etc. And then in the same breath, you make a post and say everything is shit and nothing is working? Which is it? Because it can't be both.

You know it doesn't make any sense. You're either very high, or very low.

And, you need to do something to quiet your mind so that you're not thinking about PFS 24/7. That's a fast track to driving yourself fucking crazy. One of the most important things you can do is to get control of your mind. Breathing, meditation....I'm going to bet you're not doing them given the erratic nature of your posts.

You're like a yoyo man. You need to get your head on straight.

I'm also going to suggest you do some research on why complaining should be avoided at all costs......

[K8668B]

I don't understand you.

You've made posts about how great you're feeling and how this is working so good, etc. And then in the same breath, you make a post and say everything is shit and nothing is working? Which is it? Because it can't be both.

You know it doesn't make any sense. You're either very high, or very low.

And, you need to do something to quiet your mind so that you're not thinking about PFS 24/7. That's a fast track to driving yourself fucking crazy. One of the most important things you can do is to get control of your mind. Breathing, meditation....I'm going to bet you're not doing them given the erratic nature of your posts.

You're like a yoyo man. You need to get your head on straight.

I'm also going to suggest you do some research on why complaining should be avoided at all costs......

Dude are you for real? I do breathwork religiously! Im good at it too. Meditating, no.. i acutally dont know how to.. it seems complicated for me to figure out. but it is NOW the most important thing im working on. And when i feel good, i DO feel good... but my dick is still at the same shitty baseline. so yeah im gonna be fed up about that, and yeah i think its bullshit how my dick responds to nothing. Im busting my ass here, making sure i do everything down to the T, getting literally every food in, trying to not eat the bad, trying to not over work my digestive, adrenals, trying to have good sleep discipline HIIT sprints 2x, workouts in the gym 5-6 days a week... while running out of money, and living on a budget. i bet i probably make the least amount of money on the entire forum. I mean for real.. who wouldnt be fed up!! now were about to get hit with a fucking hurricane! but im cool now... ive chilled out in the last few hours. but seriously though. im over this PFS crap... still fighting.. but i dont want to talk or think about it for awhile. like i said, i now know what to do instinctively.

youre right though... i pretty much did just make myself go crazy. from here on out, it is a new me. im still listening to you, or perhaps im finally listening to you and others for the first time. i burnt myself out to the point where i cant talk or think about it anymore

[biatch]

Thanks fellas, will do! Appreciate your concerns!

On another note, this is just getting to be too much. I think about this "battle" way too much, and im letting it control my life. Im at the point where i know how to do this protocol instinctively now. Im sick of thinking about PFS 24/7. Theres so much more to me as a person than "my battle with PFS". I just want to feel free for once. I know what to do and how to do it and will continue... whether im a slow responder, or a fast responder, its irrelevant. The fact that im busting my ass and not responding to anything, is indeed bullshit, but once again its irrelevant. I just want to enjoy myself. I have the most beautiful woman ive ever seen (IMO) coming at me, and shes really into me. I naturally am really into her too... i just want to stop thinking about pfs for a little bit...

strangely getting somewhat sick today kept my mind off of shit a little bit.


Dude are you for real? I do breathwork religiously! Im good at it too. Meditating, no.. i acutally dont know how to.. it seems complicated for me to figure out. but it is NOW the most important thing im working on. And when i feel good, i DO feel good... but my dick is still at the same shitty baseline. so yeah im gonna be fed up about that, and yeah i think its bullshit how my dick responds to nothing. Im busting my ass here, making sure i do everything down to the T, getting literally every food in, trying to not eat the bad, trying to not over work my digestive, adrenals, trying to have good sleep discipline HIIT sprints 2x, workouts in the gym 5-6 days a week... while running out of money, and living on a budget. i bet i probably make the least amount of money on the entire forum. I mean for real.. who wouldnt be fed up!! now were about to get hit with a fucking hurricane! but im cool now... ive chilled out in the last few hours. but seriously though. im over this PFS crap... still fighting.. but i dont want to talk or think about it for awhile. like i said, i now know what to do instinctively.

youre right though... i pretty much did just make myself go crazy. from here on out, it is a new me. im still listening to you, or perhaps im finally listening to you and others for the first time. i burnt myself out to the point where i cant talk or think about it anymore
...just my stupid though...wouldn't it be the case to have some blood labs, just to have an idea of your situation?!!...I know numbers mean nothing with PFS but maybe there is something more and they can give you an idea...

[Swill]

Just my two cents man...

You are SO HIGH, and then you are SO LOW. But you already know that and its something you need to address.

The one thing that is majorly hindering your progress is right in front of you, you're acknowledging it whilst with the next breath confused as to why you're having difficulty. You need to step away from this thing being your absolute life and the total definition of you. Read English's posts about the mental aspect. This is the one thing that is totally holding you back and presenting your issues... you must be slamming your cortisol through the roof whenever anything doesn't go totally to plan...

You need to accept you can't control the uncontrolables, you need to find yourself a life away from this thing and focus on mental wellness more than physical wellness. The second it clicks and you can get to the point where it doesn't occupy every single thought, the second you'll start moving forward. Do what makes you happy and focus on that, before long you'll find regardless of your side effect situation you'll be able to go days sometimes without thinking about it... and at that point, the cortisol stops, the healing and moving forward begins.

Examples... skip out the gym to go to the beach and take in a beautiful day, skip this forum for a couple of weeks and take that girl out you're on about. I talked on another thread about how to deal with girls when you have PFS, which I think you read (if you didn't then let me know and i'll dig it out). I think some time away from immersing yourself in this forum and the minutae about what people discuss will serve you well.

And before you think our situations are different. We are more alike than you think. I've been going through this since the beginning of 2013. I did myself more damage all through 2013 with trying all kinds of pharma crap that I imagine set me back even more, I literally travelled to the other side of the world to see a quack doctor who claimed he could help but used me as a guinea pig.... I was tested to the limit with what I went through. Then at the beginning of 2014 I came across CD's story and only then did the healing start. But it took me a while beyond there to get my head right mentally, it was a process. The second it no longer defined me, I moved forward immeasurably.

Im one that sticks to the protocol to the letter and CD has been a great friend to me through all i've been through, he's someone I respect as a person more than many lifelong friends. But my progress has been start stop, and slow. I've seen people start on this road and be healed in under a year, all along while i've been chugging along slowly... I am getting better, I can't not, its just it takes different people different lengths of time. I don't let it bother me, I just keep on keeping on knowing ill get there. You know why I can feel like that and not the 'why me? I'm working so hard' mentality?! Because life right now and for a long time has been good. Really fucking good. Once you're out of the initial period where you are in a state of flux, anyone can feel the same. Life is what you make it, and you are only as limited as you let yourself feel.

Do what makes you happy, even if it means you haven't done your X number of work outs a week. One night if something cool is happening, stay up late and enjoy it without worrying about consequence. It'll do you more harm than good as long as you are moderate with it. Don't let this define you. Get out and get with that girl, and if things dont work out with her, get with the next one. Then the next. Then the next.

Don't let life pass it by bro, you've got this. Its hard to take the step, but also the easiest and most important thing you will do on the path to healing.

[coppersocks]

Hey man you seem to be avoiding something that I consider to be one of the most important pillars of the protocol (and possibly one of the best life tools in general); meditation. It honestly is one of the best things to stop your mind racing and prevents you from going through the crazy ups and downs that we experience, despite how your body feels. The whole point of it is divorce yourself from that voice in your head and be present in the moment. You say you're consumed with thoughts of PFS, that it's all you think about. Why? If you stop for a moment and just scan your body, what's hurting you right now? Nothing. Are you in any physical pain due to PFS? No. Yes hormones and health have an impact on thoughts but it also works the other way. Once you learn to stop your mind racing, and stop following it down the stressful paths that it tries to take you then your stress hormones will stop pumping into your body as much.

Since you are having trouble with it this is how I meditate, it's honestly not hard or complicated.

Sit down and get comfortable, either on a cushion with your legs crossed or on a chair with your palms resting on your knees.
For a few moments I just look around my room, I look at my wardrobe, wall, anything, it doesn't matter. Just let your eyes wonder where they want.
After about twenty seconds of that I close my eyes and I start to pay attention to my breath. In, out. In, out. Once I'm comfortable I kind of do a physical scan of my body with my mind. I focus on my head and neck, noting any discomfort that I wasn't previously aware of, then my shoulders, back, etc.. all the way down to my toes. After that I just pay attention to my breathe or I listen to the ambient sounds in my room; the sounds of cars outside, birds singing, hum of my computer. I don't listen for them I just let the sounds come to me. Then back to my breath. In, out. And just keep repeating this kind PAYING ATTENTION to anything that is actually happening in or around me. That's all meditation is, just paying attention.
Now what will happen is that your mind will wonder. It will, it constantly does. You'll lose yourself in a thought and forget to pay attention to your breath or anything else that you are paying attention to, it may happen every few seconds even- particularly at the start. This is normal and natural, do not get annoyed at this because it is meant to happen. All your job is to do is to draw your attention back to the moment- your breath. In, out. In, out. In, out. When you do that the stream of thought that you were just on will just melt away. And that's the point, it's not about "clearing your mind" because that pretty much impossible and will lead to frustration, what it's about is training your mind to let go of thoughts that cause you stress or suffering or anything else melt away and realise that they don't own you and that they're not actually you.

Do it when you first wake up for fifteen minutes a day and I guarantee you will see some benefit. I hope this helps demystify the whole thing for you, it's really not hard!

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man you seem to be avoiding something that I consider to be one of the most important pillars of the protocol (and possibly one of the best life tools in general); meditation. It honestly is one of the best things to stop your mind racing and prevents you from going through the crazy ups and downs that we experience, despite how your body feels. The whole point of it is divorce yourself from that voice in your head and be present in the moment. You say you're consumed with thoughts of PFS, that it's all you think about. Why? If you stop for a moment and just scan your body, what's hurting you right now? Nothing. Are you in any physical pain due to PFS? No. Yes hormones and health have an impact on thoughts but it also works the other way. Once you learn to stop your mind racing, and stop following it down the stressful paths that it tries to take you then your stress hormones will stop pumping into your body as much.

Since you are having trouble with it this is how I meditate, it's honestly not hard or complicated.

Sit down and get comfortable, either on a cushion with your legs crossed or on a chair with your palms resting on your knees.
For a few moments I just look around my room, I look at my wardrobe, wall, anything, it doesn't matter. Just let your eyes wonder where they want.
After about twenty seconds of that I close my eyes and I start to pay attention to my breath. In, out. In, out. Once I'm comfortable I kind of do a physical scan of my body with my mind. I focus on my head and neck, noting any discomfort that I wasn't previously aware of, then my shoulders, back, etc.. all the way down to my toes. After that I just pay attention to my breathe or I listen to the ambient sounds in my room; the sounds of cars outside, birds singing, hum of my computer. I don't listen for them I just let the sounds come to me. Then back to my breath. In, out. And just keep repeating this kind PAYING ATTENTION to anything that is actually happening in or around me. That's all meditation is, just paying attention.
Now what will happen is that your mind will wonder. It will, it constantly does. You'll lose yourself in a thought and forget to pay attention to your breath or anything else that you are paying attention to, it may happen every few seconds even- particularly at the start. This is normal and natural, do not get annoyed at this because it is meant to happen. All your job is to do is to draw your attention back to the moment- your breath. In, out. In, out. In, out. When you do that the stream of thought that you were just on will just melt away. And that's the point, it's not about "clearing your mind" because that pretty much impossible and will lead to frustration, what it's about is training your mind to let go of thoughts that cause you stress or suffering or anything else melt away and realise that they don't own you and that they're not actually you.

Do it when you first wake up for fifteen minutes a day and I guarantee you will see some benefit. I hope this helps demystify the whole thing for you, it's really not hard!

Thanks for sharing. I would like this post twice if I could.

Just to add to this:

Everything he said is fine, and that's one way to do it.

I do it a little bit different. He is right that your mind will wander ALOT in the beginning as this is the state that it is used to being in CONSTANTLY. And he is right that the point of meditation is to bring yourself into the present moment. That is where life happens. Not in the future, not in the past...but NOW.

I don't focus on anything except my breath, in the very beginning. I let thoughts come and go. But because I'm a bit practiced at it, what happens to me after about five, sometimes fifteen minutes, is that ALL thought vanishes. This is the state that I am working for. This is the state all meditation is about. I become completely present in the moment. No thought....just now. This state is accompanied by a very pleasant and euphoric feeling of complete contentment in just simply BEING.

I try and stay in this space for as long as I can. The longer, the better. This state is where all of the benefits come from. The complete quieting of the racing, wandering mind. The complete peace and contentment. When there, I don't want it to end because it feels so good. When I'm in this state I also get this sensation in my minds eye...it's hard to explain, but it's a feeling of...um....it's a feeling of smoothness, if that makes sense. Flow, I guess you could call it. It is really blissful.

I can hear what is going on around me. The birds chirping, the wind blowing, but NO THOUGHT. I am completely centered. I am the center of the universe and everything is happening around me, but I am an anchor in the moment. Picture the eye of the hurricane. Chaos around you, but complete serenity in the middle. This is where I am, in the middle. Centered.

When the feeling starts to wane, sometimes after only a few minutes, sometimes after twenty, I slowly open my eyes and just sit with myself for a few minutes. This feeling you created in your mind stays with you for a good majority of the day. Things seem easier. The more you practice, the easier it will be to reach this state.

Twice a day is the sweet spot for me, but ANYTIME you can devote to it is beneficial. I shoot for twenty or twenty five minutes first thing in the morning and about the same amount of time at the end of the day.

Keep doing this, and great things will start to happen to your consciousness.

The breathing exercises get your mind in this state easier then if you didn't do the breathing first. A quick three rounds of breath work before meditation will take your practice to the next level.

This is a life practice and will yield huge benefits with continued practice, just like all parts of this protocol will. The mind work just ties all of the ends together very nicely.

And again, Coppersocks is spot on in regards to this being one of the most important parts of the healing protocol for you mind.

[Cdsnuts]

Wondering if you've given this some more practice KB?

[K8668B]

I only did it once. I still need to practice it some more to dial it in. Unfortunately , for the last 7 days, I had The flu, and hurricane Irma hit Florida. So for the first time since the protocol, I couldn't train, as I had to evactuate a few miles more inland. My diet wasnt the greatest, but I still managed to avoid gluten and some other bad chemicals. I still took my prohormones and supplements though. Luckily, I was in a safe zone. I feel bad for Miami, The Keys and the nearby islands down there, as they got hit pretty bad. But we had some power outages. Couldn't really do anything. All is behind me though. And meditation is my top priority, along with one other thing that I'm about to do in a few days, which will fit hugely into the protocol, and is 8 years in the making for me. To me, the protocol is kind of a learning curve, the longer you do it, the more you figure it all out, and over time you implement more and more into it. Whether your healing period is 6 months, or 3 years.

[Cdsnuts]

Was supposed to head down to the Keys this January....now we're not sure.

[K8668B]

Its looking bad down there for sure!

[Cdsnuts]

Its looking bad down there for sure!

We called it. There is always next year. I'm just glad we held off on booking everything.

[K8668B]

Dammit! Yesterday i went almost 13 hours without a vape/cigarrete. Its the one in the morning with coffee(usually vape, rarely a cigarette), and the one at night before bed after a huge carb-backload, that seems to get me. Those are the two hard ones. Im doing better today with it too.

Whatever it takes to fucking heal! It may take me 3 years. Idgas!

I was assuming that quitting vape/cigs would accelerate my PFS recovery faster. Nothing in 8 years could motivate to quit, until PFS. I failed yesterday, but i still broke a record. But all day yesterday i was reading the internet, and now theyre saying that smoking cigs/vape increases testosterone??? Wtf? I know it can temporarily increase 5aR, but damn, when im trying to quit, for PFS, now im reading that smoking isnt so bad? kinda messed with my head a little bit. Ive been doing it the whole time on this protocol.

Im ready to quit.. im almost there, (got a good rhythm going today) if someone for sure knows that it will help with curing pfs, then let me know. I also would like that extra energy to build more muscle, and do better at my HIIT sprints. Ironically when u try to quit, u read shit on the internet saying that its "good for you". give me a break, what a mindfuck! lol.

A little later down the road, i might even do more fasting. a 30-day juice feast. or a 14-day water fast. ive done juice feasts but never a water fast. i wish i could afford to goto one of those water fasting centers. more fasting to clean out the vape/cigarettes after quitting. whatever it takes.

[Snell1234]

You still on the super r andro?

[K8668B]

Yeah, still on it. Hasn't done anything for me.

[Maxout777]

I use Swedish snus, ordered from Sweden for my nicotine habit. Been a snus/dip user pretty much my whole adult life. Didn't affect me in recovery negatively.

Buy Swedish Snus at the lowest price – SnusCentral.com Snus Shop - SnusCentral (http://www.snuscentral.com)

Get the portion snus, not the loose snus. It's high in nicotine, it'll put you on your ass the first time you use it.

- - - Updated - - -

I use Swedish snus, ordered from Sweden for my nicotine habit. Been a snus/dip user pretty much my whole adult life. Didn't affect me in recovery negatively.

Buy Swedish Snus at the lowest price – SnusCentral.com Snus Shop - SnusCentral (http://www.snuscentral.com)

Get the portion snus, not the loose snus. It's high in nicotine, it'll put you on your ass the first time you use it.

[TubZy]

It is not only stronger but it is healthier as well. Check out the research done on American tobacco versus Swedish tobacco on how they treat it. I use General snus occasionally.

[daniel1286]

I stranegley started smoking during PFS and its like a crutch for me

When im suffering from major fatigue a cigarette can bring me back to life, unsure as to what mechanism this is triggering though

[Snell1234]

You still on the super r andro?
Give it time I guess.

[K8668B]

Definitely maxout! I can imagine it would put you on your ass the first time! Yesterday when i attempted and went 13 hours without, i smoked an organic american spirit cigarette. (the gold pack, not the yellow pack). and that shit knocked me on my ass like no other! it was almost kinda funny lol!!!

for pfs, its the intoxicants that you have to stay away from. like alcohol and drugs. makes sense, and i learned that through hard experience years ago. no wonder. it would always set me back too, before i was even fully aware of my pfs. nicotine not so much.

and tubzy- i definitely remember what you told me. still never tried the nicotine gum. i few puffs on the vape, (blizzard boy flavor), which feels like crystal blue, original mentos flavor, hits the spot!

daniel- ironic you say that! i feel like i notice the same exact thing!!!

snell- definitely man. im not worried about it or complaining about it though. im still gonna finish the cycle, and then hopefully i can find something in the future that individually works for me better. i chilled out about all this stuff after i got the flu and the hurricane hit. i needed to. my flu is pretty much gone, and i weirdly seem to be in an upswing now. and during when i was sick too. veins came back too. digestive is its best ever again, for the last 3 days. and i havent even gotten my hands on any probiotics yet either. who knows. where im at now sexually, i seem to go through upswings and downswings all within the same baseline.

[K8668B]

Just had an epiphany! It finally dawned on me. I had to write it down here before i forgot. Ive been saying things like "why are my veins slightly less prominent than they were before", and this and that, and all the other stuff. I just finally realized.

Its my schedule. Now im doing pretty much what im supposed to, im not perfect but i do alot and do my best, and over time i naturally learn more, as it is a learning curve as you go along, and implement more and more into it(the protocol).

But the same old routine. This particular job ive had for the last 6 months. It must be slightly wearing me out mentally. Physically no. Its not the protocol. What im talking about is the running around, the errands, and the two days of the week where i have to be up at 5am. Whereas the other days i dont have to be up until 7am, which is more natural feeling. Coming from a guy who once had "non-24" sleep disorder, due to slamming protein, calories, over eating, over working the digestive and adrenals, malnourishment, obsessive caffeine intake, etc.. all these things. All these things over time like the running around must be taking a toll.

Ironically when i got sick with the flu temporarily, my veins got crazy again, and libido even slightly increased. possibly because i was forced into taking a break from my crazy running around. Forced into relaxing because you get so sick you have no choice.

So i must figure something out. I cant stand going to the gym or doing HIIT after getting out of work at 3-4pm, having worked a full day standing on my feet and running around, and then having to commute back home, and still try to get it all in.

I need to find a way to get the gym and HIIT finished BEFORE i goto work on my work days. But without sacrificing sleep. Its tough as hell coming from a dude who was once easily prone to non-24 sleep disorder from PFS. I could still be sensitive to it too, if i dont watch what im doing.

So its my running around and schedule thats taken a toll over time, possibly causing these things for me.

Strangely my digestive has been really awesome in the last 5 days or so. I still have bad digestion from time to time, but alot of good days digestive wise. I dont think my digestive has ever been this good, considering how much i consume. hmm

Ive gotten some more meditation in too. One more time. I still suck at it, but i think im slowly hitting my rhythm towards learning it. Coppersocks and cd's breakdown of it a few posts back in my blog simplified it for me.

Gotta find a way to change my schedule. Get the workouts in before working an 8 hour day. Get it in fresh while the test levels are still high.

[jacknap]

yeah during my cleanse i've been doing a lot of meditation. I'm not good at it either despite been doing it for 5+ years.

for adrenals lay down flat on your back on your bed. no pillows and just use holosync. if u dont have the dough you can rip it off youtube binaural beats
Powerful Third Eye Opening Binaural Beat Subliminal Visualization Video Manifestation Movie - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU3oAyin8W4)

been doing it 2-3 hours daily during my cleanse and reached some spooky deep levels of meditation. raised my awareness big time during those 'satori's'

[Cdsnuts]

yeah during my cleanse i've been doing a lot of meditation. I'm not good at it either despite been doing it for 5+ years.

for adrenals lay down flat on your back on your bed. no pillows and just use holosync. if u dont have the dough you can rip it off youtube binaural beats
Powerful Third Eye Opening Binaural Beat Subliminal Visualization Video Manifestation Movie - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU3oAyin8W4)

been doing it 2-3 hours daily during my cleanse and reached some spooky deep levels of meditation. raised my awareness big time during those 'satori's'Not to hijack the thread but I'd be interested in hearing more about your meditation experiences

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

Not to hijack the thread but I'd be interested in hearing more about your meditation experiences

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

well it's a long story. When I'm not cleansing though I do it in the lotus sutra which is the posture from my research that is most conducive to enlightened states. It's the posture that the buddha did. I just slowly trained my legs little by little to be able to do it. I listen to holosync, a solo chant from an enlightened sage, and theta waves when I meditate.

During the holosync experiences focusing on my third eye, wim hof actually notes that through breathing you can release DMT. A potent psychedelic the body produces So I was doing this and see fractal patterns. Similar to my high dose mushroom trip.

I'll pepper more info in my thread if I have any more updates on that.

Also I've heard that 1 hour of meditation = 5 hours of sleep. So since sleep is unreliable during my crash i've been upping the meditation to get some sort of rejuvenation.

My sleep is a lot closer to normal now than it is when I first crashed but still not reliable yet.

I also use sleep cycle app so I can when I specifically wake up. I also sleep with bose noise cancellation headphones and pink noise through a stereo. I was actually a health nut before this happened so it's shitty that I crashed as I was already doing most of the protocol naturally. Just wasn't managing my stress that well which I think was the chink in the Armour and occasional drug use.

i'm a big fan of Dr. David R. Hawkins. His book Power vs. Force is amongst my favourites.

[Cdsnuts]

well it's a long story. When I'm not cleansing though I do it in the lotus sutra which is the posture from my research that is most conducive to enlightened states. It's the posture that the buddha did. I just slowly trained my legs little by little to be able to do it. I listen to holosync, a solo chant from an enlightened sage, and theta waves when I meditate.

During the holosync experiences focusing on my third eye, wim hof actually notes that through breathing you can release DMT. A potent psychedelic the body produces So I was doing this and see fractal patterns. Similar to my high dose mushroom trip.

I'll pepper more info in my thread if I have any more updates on that.

Also I've heard that 1 hour of meditation = 5 hours of sleep. So since sleep is unreliable during my crash i've been upping the meditation to get some sort of rejuvenation.

My sleep is a lot closer to normal now than it is when I first crashed but still not reliable yet.

I also use sleep cycle app so I can when I specifically wake up. I also sleep with bose noise cancellation headphones and pink noise through a stereo. I was actually a health nut before this happened so it's shitty that I crashed as I was already doing most of the protocol naturally. Just wasn't managing my stress that well which I think was the chink in the Armour and occasional drug use.

i'm a big fan of Dr. David R. Hawkins. His book Power vs. Force is amongst my favourites.I meant interested in hearing about what it's like to meditate for three straight hours and what you experienced not how you actually do it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

I meant interested in hearing about what it's like to meditate for three straight hours and what you experienced not how you actually do it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

oh sorry. didn't do three straight hours. I did 3 hours broken up into 1 hour chunks throughout the day :)

[Cdsnuts]

oh sorry. didn't do three straight hours. I did 3 hours broken up into 1 hour chunks throughout the day :)

I was going to say....three hours of straight meditation would probably have you in another dimension.....lol

[jacknap]

I was going to say....three hours of straight meditation would probably have you in another dimension.....lol

I wonder why i haven't done this yet... on my to do. Because it does seem that there's some sort of threshold that needs to be destroyed to get into the deeper parts of the meditation so perhaps marathon sessions would be more fruitful...

pfs mind-brain is one of the most monkey mind neurochemistrys I'd imagine...

[K8668B]

Ive been putting more practice into this. I did so today.

I did for 15 minutes. After already having done breathwork. Its days like today that i have off from work, where i have the time to do it upon waking up in the morning. I actually followed coppersocks's method as opposed to Cds method of meditation because he had it somewhat more simplified. And ive always been the type to learn a different way. Even before pfs.

After about 14 minutes or so.. i started feeling it. It almost made me sleepy.

I dont know if this has anything to do with the way i woke up this morning, but i swear that short mediation session kept me calm all day. too calm. traffic didnt even bother me. it was almost like having brain fog, but it felt GOOD. if that makes sense.

i even fooled around with a girl today, and just from hugging her, and rubbing up on her from behind, had me 70% hard. its like i was just so calm from shit, that i didnt give a fuck about anything. and i had also went 8 hours without any nicotine, so maybe that could have contributed too.

But seriously, i will keep practicing this. ive always been slow with new/foreign concepts my whole life, but all u can do is keep practicing, and you eventually master it.

[K8668B]

Well, yesterday my 6 week super r andro cycle came to an end. ran it from 400mg a day to 800mg a day, depending on the day. It didnt do anything for me. Nothing positive, nothing negative. Zero. But thats just me personally. Not bitching, whining, or badmouthing, etc. though. Just keeping my usual updates for myself and for everyone else.

Back to cycling the herbs again now.

I will be looking for the next related prohormone/anabolic/androgenic type of thing to cycle soon. It cant be just anything though, it needs to be something thats gonna convert the right way, and in a way thats beneficial for post-finasteride syndrome. I will not be looking to things like masteron, proviron, progesterone, DHT in straight up form, etc..., and all those other things that have been experimented with on forums like propeciahelp and other places for years. It has been proven that those types of things just make ppl worse in the end.

Whatever i choose to cycle, i will keep it updated and i will post here before i actually start something, just for feedback and safety reasons.

[jacknap]

how many packages of r andro do u have to get to cycle? it's like 4 packs right? so like almost 300$ per cycle?

[K8668B]

how many packages of r andro do u have to get to cycle? it's like 4 packs right? so like almost 300$ per cycle?


I had 4 bottles. I paid a combined total of $220. I ordered my first two bottles from strong supplement shop online for $120, and i ordered the other two bottles from iron mag labs, for $100.

[jacknap]

not too shabby! that'll probably be like 300+ canadian though for me with shipping plus our shit dollar.

I'm surprised u felt nothing? perhaps your system just needs a bunch of cycles cause it's so numb to shit.

[K8668B]

not too shabby! that'll probably be like 300+ canadian though for me with shipping plus our shit dollar.

I'm surprised u felt nothing? perhaps your system just needs a bunch of cycles cause it's so numb to shit.

Hahahah, i have my own theories, but that could be a good point! I love your enthusiasm by the way! Ive been following your thread and im rooting for you big time.

[K8668B]

Also ive been taking prolab horny goat weed again. For about 10 days consistently. In a few more days it will most likely stop working like it did back in the day and always has, and i would need to take a break from it. Its been working really well. Like it always has. Except for during downswings. Ive even been having morning wood a couple times from it. Nocturnal erections too. Some morning wood has been stronger than others. This is the only thing that has ever worked for me . But even THIS right here, is nowhere near a cure. It just gives me a slight boost. Not strong enough to give me spontaneous erections, but i could hug up on a girl or fool around, and get aroused quickly. With this right here, when its working, i can get 80% hard from merely just foreplay with a girl, and rubbing up against her. stuff like that.

This is exactly what it has in it.


http://cdn.esupplements.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/plhgweed-supp.png?x22561

[K8668B]

I got something for that ass!

After 8 long fucking years, i finally quit smoking!!! Its been over 3 days since i last smoked. And this time around it was nowhere near as difficult. The only thing in 8 years that could motivate me to quit was propecia and post-finasteride-syndrome.

Any other time i would try to quit, it was so much more difficult. You have to really want it. And if you do, its just like anything else. I feel no different. Better actually.

[K8668B]

Well, its been awhile since ive posted in my blog. Alot of has happened!

Today has been a great day, besides the tired/slight lethargic feeling ive had for the last 2 hours. But today was the first time ive had a Saturday off from work in 8 months, and i used this opportunity to do my HIIT 100m dash sprints on the local high school track. Finally, i got to do them at a convenient time when i was well rested, well prepared, and there was nobody on the track but me. I set a PR of 11.97 seconds in the 100m dash!! Super happy about that! I needed this day!

Its been about a month in a half id say. I also just broke a 34 day no fap streak today.


Still have been doing the protocol, and still obviously havent drank/smoked, or touched anything. I dont plan to either, and im not stopping all the things ive been doing until fully healed.


Still rotating herbs, but about a month/ month in a half ago.. i started taking the old prolab horny goat weed capsules daily, that have always worked instantly for me. the dont bring me to pre-pfs level, but they do give me a big increase. also have been taking nutrabio tribulus daily. i might stop it daily after today, and just add it to the rotation. im also thinking of taking a break from the prolab horny goat weed capsules.

This time around, i had HUGE results from the prolab horny goat weed capsules. The other herbs (the ones on rotation from the protocol), still havent kicked in yet for me, even though its been 5 months of me rotating them, but i am one of the longest former users of the drug known as propecia, and i have been in this state for a very very long time. But its crazy though, because the prolab horny goat weed gave me greater results this time around, moreso than ever. And it lasted longer this time around, like about 40+ days, whereas in the past it would wear off after 10-12 days. Maybe its because im on the protocol, and have been on it, and im doing all these things.

I would notice some strange things, like on tuesdays and wednesdays, where im required to get up out of bed around 5am-545am ish, and if i got less sleep due to it, and woke up during a REM stage of sleep i suppose, i would goto work on less sleep, and be a shitload hornier during the day. Also drinking alot of coffee. so the extra caffeine, and horny goat weed capsules, and the days i got less sleep, my libido was through the roof. strange how that works on less sleep. but obviously i would prefer to get a full nights rest. and still had high libido during this time even on the nights i got a proper full sleep. but strangely it was even higher on the nights where i got less. one of
those days i got so horny, that i literally achieved a 90% erection from just a mental sexual fantasy. and on one of the other days, i think i even got a 50% SPONTANEOUS ERECTION. I think it was.. i mightve manually touched myself to get it a little bit... but i cant remember. i swear it was spontaneous though. And i was having alot more morning wood too. they werent strong morning woods, but more like half morning wood. but thats still better than nothing. and even more nocturnal woods. the nocturnal ones were stronger than the morning ones. after around 30 or so days, it seems like it finally wore off a little bit.


due to all of this, i was feeling as my baseline (sexual), may have finally moved up. it seems like it all wore off, and its back to where it was. maybe, maybe not.


Ive also been doing meditation more consistently. Actually gonna do it immediately after i post this.

Creatine- i used the con-cret hydrochloride creatine capsules for about 3 weeks until the barely ran out. I only have 3 capsules left, but i had to stop the night before yesterday. I felt the creatine work immediately. I was up 5lbs in water weight. Lifts didnt go up as much as i would have liked. They went up, barely, but these numbers are not anything i havent done in the past. but alot of times, the creatine would give me some slight lethargy/slight tiredness, some brainfog, one day i even had a mildly painful stomach cramp. and and re-gressed digestion. And i would have to wake up in the middle of the night to piss at least once everynight. So sleep quality went down. these may sound like side effects from creatine MONO-HYDRATE, but i was getting these from the hydrocloride. maybe its not for me. ive been dealing with the side effects consistently for the last 3 days. today they were partially reduced, since i stopped over 24 hrs ago. The pumps and extra 5lbs was cool though. But the side effects were a nuisance. so i stopped. thats just me though. digestion is important to me, and my digestion was getting really great before the creatine. i dont want that to regress.

A big key thing for me that ive been trying to do, which is still hard as hell for me, is to just stop thinking about propecia and this whole battle im fighting. try to just know that its been set, subconsciously do the protocol, and not think about it.

honestly, i try not to even visit the forums AS much. i dont want to be as obsessive with it. but ill still be on here quite often. i need it at this point.

So yeah... ups and downs!

[Fausto Soares]

Well, its been awhile since ive posted in my blog. Alot of has happened!

Today has been a great day, besides the tired/slight lethargic feeling ive had for the last 2 hours. But today was the first time ive had a Saturday off from work in 8 months, and i used this opportunity to do my HIIT 100m dash sprints on the local high school track. Finally, i got to do them at a convenient time when i was well rested, well prepared, and there was nobody on the track but me. I set a PR of 11.97 seconds in the 100m dash!! Super happy about that! I needed this day!

Its been about a month in a half id say. I also just broke a 34 day no fap streak today.


Still have been doing the protocol, and still obviously havent drank/smoked, or touched anything. I dont plan to either, and im not stopping all the things ive been doing until fully healed.


Still rotating herbs, but about a month/ month in a half ago.. i started taking the old prolab horny goat weed capsules daily, that have always worked instantly for me. the dont bring me to pre-pfs level, but they do give me a big increase. also have been taking nutrabio tribulus daily. i might stop it daily after today, and just add it to the rotation. im also thinking of taking a break from the prolab horny goat weed capsules.

This time around, i had HUGE results from the prolab horny goat weed capsules. The other herbs (the ones on rotation from the protocol), still havent kicked in yet for me, even though its been 5 months of me rotating them, but i am one of the longest former users of the drug known as propecia, and i have been in this state for a very very long time. But its crazy though, because the prolab horny goat weed gave me greater results this time around, moreso than ever. And it lasted longer this time around, like about 40+ days, whereas in the past it would wear off after 10-12 days. Maybe its because im on the protocol, and have been on it, and im doing all these things.

I would notice some strange things, like on tuesdays and wednesdays, where im required to get up out of bed around 5am-545am ish, and if i got less sleep due to it, and woke up during a REM stage of sleep i suppose, i would goto work on less sleep, and be a shitload hornier during the day. Also drinking alot of coffee. so the extra caffeine, and horny goat weed capsules, and the days i got less sleep, my libido was through the roof. strange how that works on less sleep. but obviously i would prefer to get a full nights rest. and still had high libido during this time even on the nights i got a proper full sleep. but strangely it was even higher on the nights where i got less. one of
those days i got so horny, that i literally achieved a 90% erection from just a mental sexual fantasy. and on one of the other days, i think i even got a 50% SPONTANEOUS ERECTION. I think it was.. i mightve manually touched myself to get it a little bit... but i cant remember. i swear it was spontaneous though. And i was having alot more morning wood too. they werent strong morning woods, but more like half morning wood. but thats still better than nothing. and even more nocturnal woods. the nocturnal ones were stronger than the morning ones. after around 30 or so days, it seems like it finally wore off a little bit.


due to all of this, i was feeling as my baseline (sexual), may have finally moved up. it seems like it all wore off, and its back to where it was. maybe, maybe not.


Ive also been doing meditation more consistently. Actually gonna do it immediately after i post this.

Creatine- i used the con-cret hydrochloride creatine capsules for about 3 weeks until the barely ran out. I only have 3 capsules left, but i had to stop the night before yesterday. I felt the creatine work immediately. I was up 5lbs in water weight. Lifts didnt go up as much as i would have liked. They went up, barely, but these numbers are not anything i havent done in the past. but alot of times, the creatine would give me some slight lethargy/slight tiredness, some brainfog, one day i even had a mildly painful stomach cramp. and and re-gressed digestion. And i would have to wake up in the middle of the night to piss at least once everynight. So sleep quality went down. these may sound like side effects from creatine MONO-HYDRATE, but i was getting these from the hydrocloride. maybe its not for me. ive been dealing with the side effects consistently for the last 3 days. today they were partially reduced, since i stopped over 24 hrs ago. The pumps and extra 5lbs was cool though. But the side effects were a nuisance. so i stopped. thats just me though. digestion is important to me, and my digestion was getting really great before the creatine. i dont want that to regress.

A big key thing for me that ive been trying to do, which is still hard as hell for me, is to just stop thinking about propecia and this whole battle im fighting. try to just know that its been set, subconsciously do the protocol, and not think about it.

honestly, i try not to even visit the forums AS much. i dont want to be as obsessive with it. but ill still be on here quite often. i need it at this point.

So yeah... ups and downs!

Bro, the science already proved, if we sleep less in a day, it tends to increase the dopamine release, so it seems to justify the increase on libido, i already notice this increase like you, hence, i like to wake up even if i want to sleep more.

[K8668B]

I have some serious problems now, and i could really use the expertise of this forum more now than ever. I knew i was either doing something wrong, or something wasnt right in general. I had bloodwork done at my doctors a few days ago, and my total serum testosterone has dropped from 605 ng/dl to 479 nd/dl. The 605 ng/dl was from about 18 months ago. As of a few days ago, it is 126 points lower. The whole time, Ive been trying to increase my T, along with other things obviously. Very frustrating and disappointing.


I was feeling like crap starting about 2 months ago. Before then, i was feeling probably my best ever. Just minus sexual. At this time, i started taking creatine hydrochloride daily. I also took nutrabio tribulus terrestris daily at this time, and very high amounts of it. I was abusing it and eating that shit like candy. (the tribulus). I started having these tired and lethargic feelings every so often at this point too. And having to wake up once during the night, to piss. Every night. Its been going on long enough to the point where a few people I know recommended i get bloodwork done. My creatinine levels checked in particular, because my symptoms seems to match that. Well I hate labs, and ive been told that theyre irrelevant. And i agree, as i have become a person who believes in and goes by FEEL over anything. But I wanted to get my creatinine levels checked, and the doctors threw in a testosterone level check with that too. My labs were perfect 7 months ago, but my BUN was elevated. BUN is kidney related. After bloodwork results this monday, i was told the next day to get another lab done specificially for BUN. So i did, and it came back more closer to "normal".


So apparently my liver and kidneys are fine, but im still feeling not as good lately, and my total serum testosterone has dropped 126 points. I stopped abusing and taking the nutrabio tribulus alltogether a few weeks ago. And i stopped the creatine a few weeks ago too.


I always was a bodybuilding enthusiast, and i take in an extremely high amount of calories, and an excessively high protein intake as well. It always seemed to bulid my body. But maybe its too much and lowering my test? Maybe i was also "overtraining" too? Instead of just doing the 3 weight training sessions a week and 2 HIIT sessions a week, maybe i was doing more? (like 5 weight training sessions a week, and one HIIT session a week). Could be the excessively high protein intake? Maybe the tribulus abuse? I just dont know what to do.


Im all about beating PFS. I wouldnt be opposed to doing another fast, if that were the necessary route to go. Whether it be a 3 day fast, or a 30 day fast.


By the way, when i knew that i was getting my test levels checked, along with my creatinine, i did everything in my power the day of, to do what i thought would make my testosterone score higher. I was told not to fast for these labs. So I didnt. The day of, i got an okay sleep, 7-8 hrs, but woke up less energized, but not too terrible either. Went to the bathroom, system was flushed out, then did a cold shower, empty stomach, then coffee, then gym (benchpress day), and went to the doctors and had my bloodwork done immediately after the gym.


I just dont know what to do. I could use some major help for real this time. My testosterone dropped 126 points. That is not good. I am not being a whiny cunt either.

[biatch]

I have some serious problems now, and i could really use the expertise of this forum more now than ever. I knew i was either doing something wrong, or something wasnt right in general. I had bloodwork done at my doctors a few days ago, and my total serum testosterone has dropped from 605 ng/dl to 479 nd/dl. The 605 ng/dl was from about 18 months ago. As of a few days ago, it is 126 points lower. The whole time, Ive been trying to increase my T, along with other things obviously. Very frustrating and disappointing.


I was feeling like crap starting about 2 months ago. Before then, i was feeling probably my best ever. Just minus sexual. At this time, i started taking creatine hydrochloride daily. I also took nutrabio tribulus terrestris daily at this time, and very high amounts of it. I was abusing it and eating that shit like candy. (the tribulus). I started having these tired and lethargic feelings every so often at this point too. And having to wake up once during the night, to piss. Every night. Its been going on long enough to the point where a few people I know recommended i get bloodwork done. My creatinine levels checked in particular, because my symptoms seems to match that. Well I hate labs, and ive been told that theyre irrelevant. And i agree, as i have become a person who believes in and goes by FEEL over anything. But I wanted to get my creatinine levels checked, and the doctors threw in a testosterone level check with that too. My labs were perfect 7 months ago, but my BUN was elevated. BUN is kidney related. After bloodwork results this monday, i was told the next day to get another lab done specificially for BUN. So i did, and it came back more closer to "normal".


So apparently my liver and kidneys are fine, but im still feeling not as good lately, and my total serum testosterone has dropped 126 points. I stopped abusing and taking the nutrabio tribulus alltogether a few weeks ago. And i stopped the creatine a few weeks ago too.


I always was a bodybuilding enthusiast, and i take in an extremely high amount of calories, and an excessively high protein intake as well. It always seemed to bulid my body. But maybe its too much and lowering my test? Maybe i was also "overtraining" too? Instead of just doing the 3 weight training sessions a week and 2 HIIT sessions a week, maybe i was doing more? (like 5 weight training sessions a week, and one HIIT session a week). Could be the excessively high protein intake? Maybe the tribulus abuse? I just dont know what to do.


Im all about beating PFS. I wouldnt be opposed to doing another fast, if that were the necessary route to go. Whether it be a 3 day fast, or a 30 day fast.


By the way, when i knew that i was getting my test levels checked, along with my creatinine, i did everything in my power the day of, to do what i thought would make my testosterone score higher. I was told not to fast for these labs. So I didnt. The day of, i got an okay sleep, 7-8 hrs, but woke up less energized, but not too terrible either. Went to the bathroom, system was flushed out, then did a cold shower, empty stomach, then coffee, then gym (benchpress day), and went to the doctors and had my bloodwork done immediately after the gym.


I just dont know what to do. I could use some major help for real this time. My testosterone dropped 126 points. That is not good. I am not being a whiny cunt either.

You took bloodtest after gym????
Come on. That would srew up all results for sure, not only about testosterone I guess.
I Italy it works this way: you should not eat anything for 8 hours before the test, sleep, wake up and go for the test.After gym all hormones and everything would be messed up because of the activity you have done.

[basementdweller]

I have some serious problems now, and i could really use the expertise of this forum more now than ever. I knew i was either doing something wrong, or something wasnt right in general. I had bloodwork done at my doctors a few days ago, and my total serum testosterone has dropped from 605 ng/dl to 479 nd/dl. The 605 ng/dl was from about 18 months ago. As of a few days ago, it is 126 points lower. The whole time, Ive been trying to increase my T, along with other things obviously. Very frustrating and disappointing.


I was feeling like crap starting about 2 months ago. Before then, i was feeling probably my best ever. Just minus sexual. At this time, i started taking creatine hydrochloride daily. I also took nutrabio tribulus terrestris daily at this time, and very high amounts of it. I was abusing it and eating that shit like candy. (the tribulus). I started having these tired and lethargic feelings every so often at this point too. And having to wake up once during the night, to piss. Every night. Its been going on long enough to the point where a few people I know recommended i get bloodwork done. My creatinine levels checked in particular, because my symptoms seems to match that. Well I hate labs, and ive been told that theyre irrelevant. And i agree, as i have become a person who believes in and goes by FEEL over anything. But I wanted to get my creatinine levels checked, and the doctors threw in a testosterone level check with that too. My labs were perfect 7 months ago, but my BUN was elevated. BUN is kidney related. After bloodwork results this monday, i was told the next day to get another lab done specificially for BUN. So i did, and it came back more closer to "normal".


So apparently my liver and kidneys are fine, but im still feeling not as good lately, and my total serum testosterone has dropped 126 points. I stopped abusing and taking the nutrabio tribulus alltogether a few weeks ago. And i stopped the creatine a few weeks ago too.


I always was a bodybuilding enthusiast, and i take in an extremely high amount of calories, and an excessively high protein intake as well. It always seemed to bulid my body. But maybe its too much and lowering my test? Maybe i was also "overtraining" too? Instead of just doing the 3 weight training sessions a week and 2 HIIT sessions a week, maybe i was doing more? (like 5 weight training sessions a week, and one HIIT session a week). Could be the excessively high protein intake? Maybe the tribulus abuse? I just dont know what to do.


Im all about beating PFS. I wouldnt be opposed to doing another fast, if that were the necessary route to go. Whether it be a 3 day fast, or a 30 day fast.


By the way, when i knew that i was getting my test levels checked, along with my creatinine, i did everything in my power the day of, to do what i thought would make my testosterone score higher. I was told not to fast for these labs. So I didnt. The day of, i got an okay sleep, 7-8 hrs, but woke up less energized, but not too terrible either. Went to the bathroom, system was flushed out, then did a cold shower, empty stomach, then coffee, then gym (benchpress day), and went to the doctors and had my bloodwork done immediately after the gym.


I just dont know what to do. I could use some major help for real this time. My testosterone dropped 126 points. That is not good. I am not being a whiny cunt either.

You're supposed to get T levels checked in the morning too. It's normal for levels to drop later in the day

[biatch]

You're supposed to get T levels checked in the morning too. It's normal for levels to drop later in the day

and I guess even to drop after gym.......

[Pageidol]

Don’t take trib everyday man, its fine in rotation but not everyday, ive read countless stories of it raising estrogen and causing gyno

[K8668B]

Shiiit.. for real?


I thought your test levels increased after the gym. that good feeling you feel. and they told me not to fast. i have shitty insurance too. but i figured the levels would be higher after the gym. i guess i was wrong. i was up at about 630am that day i think.. and got my bloods done at about 1130am ish.


i still feel like complete shit though. my digestion has regressed too. im eating alot less too, to try to have less inflammation. its like i cant even eat a tiny amount of something without farting like crazy. the smallest thing will set it off. my test levels do feel like they did drop 126 points. i have this weird feeling in my head.

and yeah, i stopped taking the tribulus after 3 weeks.

[Cdsnuts]

Shiiit.. for real?


I thought your test levels increased after the gym. that good feeling you feel. and they told me not to fast. i have shitty insurance too. but i figured the levels would be higher after the gym. i guess i was wrong. i was up at about 630am that day i think.. and got my bloods done at about 1130am ish.


i still feel like complete shit though. my digestion has regressed too. im eating alot less too, to try to have less inflammation. its like i cant even eat a tiny amount of something without farting like crazy. the smallest thing will set it off. my test levels do feel like they did drop 126 points. i have this weird feeling in my head.

and yeah, i stopped taking the tribulus after 3 weeks.

You sure you're following this 100%....everyday?

[Maxout777]

Drop the tribulus, as you have. That's most likely what did that to you. Might even be beneficial to do a short fast again.

[K8668B]

Definitely maxout.. i agree.. i think it was the tribulus that did that to me. im doing a 3 day juice feast (maybe longer) in the very near future.


And yes, cdsnuts, i would say im following the protocol 99.9% everyday. The whole protocol minus avoiding xeno-estrogens part i would say. Only reason for that is because of lack of convenience. i was told you literally have to purchase all of these things online? and for like $65? Money is tough. Time is even tougher than money. i barely even get time to do research online. lately i dont even want to read forums as much anymore, because ive been a little bit down. (as opposed to how i was before). i need someone to point out the right stuff for me, so i can just go in a store, quickly grab them, and be done.

I havent had a sip of alcohol, or done any drugs in almost 10 months!!! I havent smoked/vaped in over 2 months. quit that habit completely as well.

My diet is pretty damn good.. if it isnt, then i dont know what is. it is clean to the core. the only negative thing about my diet i could think of is the sugar in my coffee, and even then its such a miniscule amount. other than that there is zero sugar in my diet. (besides the natural sugars from fruits). i do sip alot of coffee, but i cut it off around 12pm-1pm.

it has almost been 6 months since ive been cycling herbs. in about 8 days it will be the 6 month mark. i havent responded to any of the herbs and prohormones. im not bashing them either. believe me, i wish i would respond to something!

i got impatient around the 4.5 month mark, so thats why i did what i did with the nutrabio tribulus and creatine. (most likely tribulus). but in the meantime, i never stopped rotating herbs.

if you guys can point out anything im doing wrong, then let me know. feel free to PM me, or comment, etc.

[Durantia37]

Definitely maxout.. i agree.. i think it was the tribulus that did that to me. im doing a 3 day juice feast (maybe longer) in the very near future.


And yes, cdsnuts, i would say im following the protocol 99.9% everyday. The whole protocol minus avoiding xeno-estrogens part i would say. Only reason for that is because of lack of convenience. i was told you literally have to purchase all of these things online? and for like $65? Money is tough. Time is even tougher than money. i barely even get time to do research online. lately i dont even want to read forums as much anymore, because ive been a little bit down. (as opposed to how i was before). i need someone to point out the right stuff for me, so i can just go in a store, quickly grab them, and be done.

I havent had a sip of alcohol, or done any drugs in almost 10 months!!! I havent smoked/vaped in over 2 months. quit that habit completely as well.

My diet is pretty damn good.. if it isnt, then i dont know what is. it is clean to the core. the only negative thing about my diet i could think of is the sugar in my coffee, and even then its such a miniscule amount. other than that there is zero sugar in my diet. (besides the natural sugars from fruits). i do sip alot of coffee, but i cut it off around 12pm-1pm.

it has almost been 6 months since ive been cycling herbs. in about 8 days it will be the 6 month mark. i havent responded to any of the herbs and prohormones. im not bashing them either. believe me, i wish i would respond to something!

i got impatient around the 4.5 month mark, so thats why i did what i did with the nutrabio tribulus and creatine. (most likely tribulus). but in the meantime, i never stopped rotating herbs.

if you guys can point out anything im doing wrong, then let me know. feel free to PM me, or comment, etc.

Congratulations on quitting smoking dude, that's badass.

Just buy some Dr. Bronner's soap at Whole foods. It's like ten dollars and lasts forever. And you can use it as soap and shampoo if you want.

I would just keep going with the program despite the setback. Before this episode, had you literally noticed zero improvement in well-being from all of this stuff? I don't see how that's possible..

[K8668B]

Thanks man. Quitting smoking can be alot less difficult, if one can find a true reason to quit, like i did. Its gotta be more than just a cliche "oh i just want to better my health".

Thanks for the soap recommendation.

I saw great improvement in well being from the program. It was great. Up until 2 months ago, i was at my best EVER. march 2017 to about september/october 2017 has been my official best days ever. Just minus the same old zero sexual. im pissed at this setback. But none in sexual. strangely sexually im actually about 3% better than i was before the setback. i dont get it. its still shit, but a teeny bit higher lately. a very teeny bit, but i can notice something. still crap though. i hope i dont have some sort of liver/kindey/pancreas damage. i get these pings in my stomach area now. they dont hurt, but its a weird feeling. i cant describe it. my test levels definitely dropped from that tribulus overuse. im yawning all day and shit like that that. have this somewhat "sleepy" feeling at times. hate it. im doing another short juice feast soon. i almost want to jump on clomid for 3 weeks or some stupid shit like that. And i get the way i get sometimes, because i work hard, and its like i see another person seemingly respond to everything, while i respond to nothing. Im still going with it, but im anxious to try other things now too.

[jimmyjonas]

Thanks man. Quitting smoking can be alot less difficult, if one can find a true reason to quit, like i did. Its gotta be more than just a cliche "oh i just want to better my health".

Thanks for the soap recommendation.

I saw great improvement in well being from the program. It was great. im pissed at this setback. But none in sexual. And i get the way i get sometimes, because i work hard, and its like i see another person seemingly respond to everything, while i respond to nothing. Im still going with it, but im anxious to try other things now too.

Sorry to read you’ve hit a wall KB, can I ask what are your current residual symptoms man?

[K8668B]

the new symptoms from this last 2 month period from the tribulus abuse and creatine, or what the fuck ever are- tired/sleepy feeling alot. especially when sitting down or driving a care. its best for me to try to keep moving if i can. it does feel like a 126 point drop in testosterone points for sure.

waking up multiple times in the night to piss, or just go right back to sleep. anywhere from 1-3 times. it all started immediately when i started taking the tribulus excessively, and creatine. my sexual/libido is actually a tiny tiny bit higher. been having nocturnals and morning woods occasionally. and more daytime libido. energy is shit though, with occasional good days energy wise, but rare. before the setback, i was having super energy days, but shitty sexual. weak-decent MW's, but still better than nothing. just shitty energy levels in the day.


i would say before the setback... 99.9% of my symptoms were gone completely. 75% of the time my digestion had become perfect. just there was zero progress in the sexual department.

[Cdsnuts]

the new symptoms from this last 2 month period from the tribulus abuse and creatine, or what the fuck ever are- tired/sleepy feeling alot. especially when sitting down or driving a care. its best for me to try to keep moving if i can. it does feel like a 126 point drop in testosterone points for sure.

waking up multiple times in the night to piss, or just go right back to sleep. anywhere from 1-3 times. it all started immediately when i started taking the tribulus excessively, and creatine. my sexual/libido is actually a tiny tiny bit higher. been having nocturnals and morning woods occasionally. and more daytime libido. energy is shit though, with occasional good days energy wise, but rare. before the setback, i was having super energy days, but shitty sexual. weak-decent MW's, but still better than nothing. just shitty energy levels in the day.


i would say before the setback... 99.9% of my symptoms were gone completely. 75% of the time my digestion had become perfect. just there was zero progress in the sexual department.

This is what I don't understand...when you say things like "I had my best months ever" "My well being was better then it ever was" "99%" of my symptoms were gone." How is that no improvement? I don't know how you're not getting anything out of this when you say things like that?

From the outside looking in, it sounds like you're saying two completely opposite things at the same time?

[jimmyjonas]

the new symptoms from this last 2 month period from the tribulus abuse and creatine, or what the fuck ever are- tired/sleepy feeling alot. especially when sitting down or driving a care. its best for me to try to keep moving if i can. it does feel like a 126 point drop in testosterone points for sure.

waking up multiple times in the night to piss, or just go right back to sleep. anywhere from 1-3 times. it all started immediately when i started taking the tribulus excessively, and creatine. my sexual/libido is actually a tiny tiny bit higher. been having nocturnals and morning woods occasionally. and more daytime libido. energy is shit though, with occasional good days energy wise, but rare. before the setback, i was having super energy days, but shitty sexual. weak-decent MW's, but still better than nothing. just shitty energy levels in the day.


i would say before the setback... 99.9% of my symptoms were gone completely. 75% of the time my digestion had become perfect. just there was zero progress in the sexual department.

So a lot can be put down to excessive use of tribulus and creatine, not everything but a lot, that’s obviously a bad move bro which was caused by a solo run gorging on supplements without advice, no doubt giving it time and avoiding repeat behavior, these symptoms will pass, in terms of your lingering sexual symptoms what’s the main problem there bro? What is it that hasn’t improved for you?

[Durantia37]

the new symptoms from this last 2 month period from the tribulus abuse and creatine, or what the fuck ever are- tired/sleepy feeling alot. especially when sitting down or driving a care. its best for me to try to keep moving if i can. it does feel like a 126 point drop in testosterone points for sure.

waking up multiple times in the night to piss, or just go right back to sleep. anywhere from 1-3 times. it all started immediately when i started taking the tribulus excessively, and creatine. my sexual/libido is actually a tiny tiny bit higher. been having nocturnals and morning woods occasionally. and more daytime libido. energy is shit though, with occasional good days energy wise, but rare. before the setback, i was having super energy days, but shitty sexual. weak-decent MW's, but still better than nothing. just shitty energy levels in the day.


i would say before the setback... 99.9% of my symptoms were gone completely. 75% of the time my digestion had become perfect. just there was zero progress in the sexual department.

For what it's worth, I've noticed that sometimes an improvement in one category can mean a temporary downswing in another category.

For example, once I started making big strides mentally, I stopped getting the huge ridiculous testosterone boosts that were making me more muscular than ever. I think this has to do with hormones getting converted differently at different stages in the game.

It's possible that your mild sexual improvements are temporarily taxing other categories. Whether it's that, or Trib, or something else, I still don't see any viable alternatives other than continuing on.

I understand your frustration, but I dont see what choice you have. I would just relax, take it slow, and, like I've said before, be thankful you don't have the full spectrum of horrible sides..lol. 99.9% of sides gone?? I can't even imagine dude.

[K8668B]

This is what I don't understand...when you say things like "I had my best months ever" "My well being was better then it ever was" "99%" of my symptoms were gone." How is that no improvement? I don't know how you're not getting anything out of this when you say things like that?

From the outside looking in, it sounds like you're saying two completely opposite things at the same time?

i mean i had my best months ever as far as well-being goes. i never said it was "no improvement". i meant there was just no improvement sexually. i think i said that. not sure.

[Cdsnuts]

i mean i had my best months ever as far as well-being goes. i never said it was "no improvement". i meant there was just no improvement sexually. i think i said that. not sure.Just to clarify some things, the herbs influence your feeling of well-being 100%.

So you are responding to the herbs you're just not having any sexual responses yet.

I told you from the beginning you were going to be a tough nut to crack... You just need to Keep On Keepin On... It's either that or do nothing. If you do nothing I guarantee you're not going to get anywhere.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[K8668B]

Right on.

sigh... ive just been down lately.



I feel like im the most noobish pfs sufferer of all time. seems like everyone has all this knowledge and stuff.

everyone seems to acquire all these herbs, prohormones, probiotics, products etc at such a fast pace.

how do you guys manage your time as far as forum time and research time goes? im usually out and about, working, at the gym, doing errands/chores, etc. i rarely check my phone while im at work too. im trying to get more TIME in my favor though.


in a few weeks, the next thing im maybe going to run is the androsterone from haidut on raypeat forum. even thought i heard mixed reviews about that one as well.

[Cdsnuts]

Right on.

sigh... ive just been down lately.



I feel like im the most noobish pfs sufferer of all time. seems like everyone has all this knowledge and stuff.

everyone seems to acquire all these herbs, prohormones, probiotics, products etc at such a fast pace.

how do you guys manage your time as far as forum time and research time goes? im usually out and about, working, at the gym, doing errands/chores, etc. i rarely check my phone while im at work too. im trying to get more TIME in my favor though.


in a few weeks, the next thing im maybe going to run is the androsterone from haidut on raypeat forum. even thought i heard mixed reviews about that one as well.

Honestly, what more "research" do you need to do?

Everything you need to know and focus on is here man.

What do you feel like you're missing?

[TubZy]

@KB

It sounds like you are still recovering from smoking/nicotine. All the symptoms you describe sound like downregulated dopamine especially since you said this episode took a down hill turn two months and you quit vaping two months ago ( I remember your PM). I used to abuse stimulants a lot and when I came off them I felt like hell too and I can't even imagine doing it with PFS.

Now, please take my advice with a VERY small grain of salt, but if you are really feeling that bad and you can't even do normal everyday shit anymore, if it was me I would maybe try a vape hit or two and see how I felt. If I immediately felt much much better well it just proves a lot of your downswings were from smoking/nicotine withdrawal, if you don't really notice any improvement than it would be best to completely stay off any nicotine related products. Personally, I don't think vaping is that bad for health (as compared to smoking a cigarette) and if it does resolve a lot of your downward symptoms again, it may be best to continue vaping and once you get through PFS than focus on quitting vaping.

Again, it is up to you, but if you really get suck in a rut and just feel completely useless, I would say it might be best continuing with vaping (or using some sort of nicotine product like gum too) IF you do notice an improvement again after taking a few hits then once your completely restored from PFS then focus on quitting nicotine. I don't think vaping will prevent you from recovering as maxout uses dip occasionally and recovered during this entire process. I vaped and used nicotine gum on and off as well, didn't seem to negatively impact anything. I think you have been a dedicated guy to CD's protocol and hate to see you keep suffering from both PFS and nictotine withdrawals.

[Maxout777]

@KB

It sounds like you are still recovering from smoking/nicotine. All the symptoms you describe sound like downregulated dopamine especially since you said this episode took a down hill turn two months and you quit vaping two months ago ( I remember your PM). I used to abuse stimulants a lot and when I came off them I felt like hell too and I can't even imagine doing it with PFS.

Now, please take my advice with a VERY small grain of salt, but if you are really feeling that bad and you can't even do normal everyday shit anymore, if it was me I would maybe try a vape hit or two and see how I felt. If I immediately felt much much better well it just proves a lot of your downswings were from smoking/nicotine withdrawal, if you don't really notice any improvement than it would be best to completely stay off any nicotine related products. Personally, I don't think vaping is that bad for health (as compared to smoking a cigarette) and if it does resolve a lot of your downward symptoms again, it may be best to continue vaping and once you get through PFS than focus on quitting vaping.

Again, it is up to you, but if you really get suck in a rut and just feel completely useless, I would say it might be best continuing with vaping (or using some sort of nicotine product like gum too) IF you do notice an improvement again after taking a few hits then once your completely restored from PFS then focus on quitting nicotine. I don't think vaping will prevent you from recovering as maxout uses dip occasionally and recovered during this entire process. I vaped and used nicotine gum on and off as well, didn't seem to negatively impact anything. I think you have been a dedicated guy to CD's protocol and hate to see you keep suffering from both PFS and nictotine withdrawals.

Concur with this 100%. I don't believe the use of tobacco/nicotine was detrimental in recovery at all. If anything, maybe helpful. One time, I smoked a Cuban cigar on my back porch and came back in and (at that time) had the best sex I had to that point during recovery.

I still dip to this day, as well. Not a real clean habit, but doesn't really seem to affect my health much.

[Hulk Smash]

Right on.

sigh... ive just been down lately.



I feel like im the most noobish pfs sufferer of all time. seems like everyone has all this knowledge and stuff.

everyone seems to acquire all these herbs, prohormones, probiotics, products etc at such a fast pace.

how do you guys manage your time as far as forum time and research time goes? im usually out and about, working, at the gym, doing errands/chores, etc. i rarely check my phone while im at work too. im trying to get more TIME in my favor though.


in a few weeks, the next thing im maybe going to run is the androsterone from haidut on raypeat forum. even thought i heard mixed reviews about that one as well.

K866 For as much knowledge as anyone has about this stuff, there is still much to learn.
And at the end of the day, what we can rely on is the experience from the guys that made it out like CD, English, Maxout, etc...

Not all of us have every product or easy access to them. I try to stay focused on what I have now and what I can do now.
Also in my case, I was struggling with carpal tunnel syndrome and just learned of the boost I could get from a little extra Vitamin B.

The source told me it would take time, a minimum of 3 months to heal carpal tunnel. 5 days in and I'm already getting relief.
Good thing I didn't go on corticosteroid injections when it seemed impossible. I stuck to doing things within the guidelines of the regimen.

Point is you gotta stay looking up and work with what you can, don't deviate too much when things don't seem to work.
Sometimes like my case, we can be so malnourished from pfs. It will take TIME to rebuild even something as simple as Vit-B levels, which aids metabolism of protein, fats and carbs among other things.

[K8668B]

Tubzy, its ironic you say that about the nicotine. In the last 7 or 8 days, ive been having some crazy cravings. But ill take your idea into consideration, and with a grain of salt like you said. Makes sense. Im going to try to stay non smoking though. Only if it gets THAT bad though. @maxout- nice on the cuban cigar! i was a menthol guy before. And Hulk, definitely. Easier said than done, but youre right. Another 3-day juice feast could be something I might do in the very near future. Fuck pfs, and fuck the 2014 prohormone ban. =) =)

[HOPE]

Tubzy, its ironic you say that about the nicotine. In the last 7 or 8 days, ive been having some crazy cravings. But ill take your idea into consideration, and with a grain of salt like you said. Makes sense. Im going to try to stay non smoking though. Only if it gets THAT bad though. @maxout- nice on the cuban cigar! i was a menthol guy before. And Hulk, definitely. Easier said than done, but youre right. Another 3-day juice feast could be something I might do in the very near future. Fuck pfs, and fuck the 2014 prohormone ban. =) =)

Any updates from this guy?

[HOPE]

Any updates from this guy?

Cdsnuts, Maxout777, did you guys bother talking to this guy? I accidently found his thread over at hackstasis, and he’s taking growth hormones, testosterone and getting fucked on them.
Says all symptoms healed except sexual ones after 8 months of herb cycling/protocol… which isn’t a bad timeline at all. Probably would’ve healed by now had he stuck with it. Might want to speak to this guy briefly looks like he’s a little lost.

[Maxout777]

Cdsnuts, Maxout777, did you guys bother talking to this guy? I accidently found his thread over at hackstasis, and he’s taking growth hormones, testosterone and getting fucked on them.
Says all symptoms healed except sexual ones after 8 months of herb cycling/protocol… which isn’t a bad timeline at all. Probably would’ve healed by now had he stuck with it. Might want to speak to this guy briefly looks like he’s a little lost.

Bother? We talked him through quite a bit. My last exchange with him on Hack Stasis he essentially flamed Cdsnuts, and bashed this whole protocol if I remember correctly. Not sure what he's doing now. Wish the best for him.

[Hulk Smash]

Cdsnuts, Maxout777, did you guys bother talking to this guy? I accidently found his thread over at hackstasis, and he’s taking growth hormones, testosterone and getting fucked on them.
Says all symptoms healed except sexual ones after 8 months of herb cycling/protocol… which isn’t a bad timeline at all. Probably would’ve healed by now had he stuck with it. Might want to speak to this guy briefly looks like he’s a little lost.

Can't believe he went on GH and testo after only 8 months of trying? Why would he stop if he was improving? Doesnt make sense.

Now the GH & Testo fkd him up?

Too many ideas, and signs of improvement and testing but no clear recovery at HS.
I had a feeling if I was gonna recover this was the only place with a clear path.
I left HS behind.

Hope he finds his way.

[Cdsnuts]

Cdsnuts, Maxout777, did you guys bother talking to this guy? I accidently found his thread over at hackstasis, and he’s taking growth hormones, testosterone and getting fucked on them.
Says all symptoms healed except sexual ones after 8 months of herb cycling/protocol… which isn’t a bad timeline at all. Probably would’ve healed by now had he stuck with it. Might want to speak to this guy briefly looks like he’s a little lost.

I put ALOT of time into helping him in the beginning....only for him to turn around and bad mouth me because HE couldn't maintain the protocol correctly. And believe me, he didn't "try" for 8 months. He talked, and whined......you don't "try" the protocol. You "do" the protocol.

He couldn't hack it.

Already tried speaking with him RIGHT in the beginning. Now he's just making himself worse and worse. I have nothing to say to him. I hope he finds his way.

[K8668B]

I put ALOT of time into helping him in the beginning....only for him to turn around and bad mouth me because HE couldn't maintain the protocol correctly. And believe me, he didn't "try" for 8 months. He talked, and whined......you don't "try" the protocol. You "do" the protocol.

He couldn't hack it.

Already tried speaking with him RIGHT in the beginning. Now he's just making himself worse and worse. I have nothing to say to him. I hope he finds his way.


Lol, you need to get some new material ! I think YOU'RE the one who whines and "can't hack it"! Lol!! And for the record, im still putting the work in, inside and outside of PFS, and i know the deal!

"Justttt dooo da protocolllll""" "justttt do da faahhhking protocol" "durrr" LOLLL.




And to the few who said nice things about me, and wished me well, Thank you, and i hope the same for you all as well. For the record, I am still going through it, but i'm doing alright. But I will find a way regardless. I'm still around in the PFS community but on other forums. But I'm not gonna sit around and argue back and forth with Mr."nuts" and listen to nonsense. Have a good day!

[Cdsnuts]

Lol, you need to get some new material ! I think YOU'RE the one who whines and "can't hack it"! Lol!! And for the record, im still putting the work in, inside and outside of PFS, and i know the deal!

"Justttt dooo da protocolllll""" "justttt do da faahhhking protocol" "durrr" LOLLL.




And to the few who said nice things about me, and wished me well, Thank you, and i hope the same for you all as well. For the record, I am still going through it, but i'm doing alright. But I will find a way regardless. I'm still around in the PFS community but on other forums. But I'm not gonna sit around and argue back and forth with Mr."nuts" and listen to nonsense. Have a good day!

Lol. What can't I hack there K? The fact that I'm healed and trying to help others do the same? Not sure why you took it as an afront when it was simply the truth. If you would have stayed on the "protocollll" you would have been healed by now.

Very childish response/reaction. It doesn't surprise me you're still in the state you're in.

Good luck to you though.