Hi everyone

[coppersocks]

Hi everyone, I'm not really sure I have a right to post here as I am only three weeks off the drug. But as I'm sure you've all experienced, it's been a hell of a three weeks and I'm sick at looking at horror stories and giving myself a negative feedback loop so I thought I'd rather preempt the possibility of this being a long term thing in the right way rather than just setting myself up for the worst in the wrong way. And before I continue I just want to add that I truly am sorry for and in awe of the people who have kept their heads held high throughout dealing with this bastard long term. Just surviving that with any semblance of normal life is a victory in my opinion.

So a little about myself. I'm a 30 year old male, extremely fit strength wise and currently studying as a mature student here in Ireland. Last October I got fin prescribed to me online after noticing a minor shed and doing some research on the stuff on Reddit and becoming confident that A. It was safe and that only a tiny minority got any side effects and that B. if I did get side effects then they would clear up as soon as I got off the drug.
Fast forward to the end of January and I'm going out that night and I decide to pop one off in the shower. Nothing much happens and I end up ejaculating with a semi and I don't think much of it as I didn't have porn to look at and just chalk it up to a bad wank. The next day hungover, and I feel different as usually I'd be very horny hungover but I'm at work and can't test the theory. On Monday, same again. It takes an age to get up even watching porn and I bin the fin. It's not worth it. Over the next few days my energy levels completely evaporated, my mood changed, I had insane levels of mind fog, blurred vision and slurring of words and I was more or less completely impotent other than when I really concentrate watching porn and even then the erections are crap. For about eight days I was near suicidal but then I get a relief from the symptoms, I feel the DHT returning and my body responding. I feel horny again! This lasted for about three days until I feel anxiousness creeping back and my erections disappearing. And other than one miraculous day last Tuesday (14th) where I was feeling better than I was pre fin many of my symptoms are back.

This is where I am 22 days after quitting the drug:

*Pretty much completely impotent with zero libido currently. I haven't been able to get it up manually since Thursday.
*I would describe my mood as severely depressed over the past few weeks but I'm open to the idea that a lot of it may be mental as before even knowing about this site I'd known of Wim Hof and practiced meditation somewhat and upon reading English's post on propeciahelp forum my mood elevated and I've managed to stay positive enough with the help of cold showers, heavy lifting, Wim Hof breathing and some meditation.
*As well as my my mood lifting this past couple of days, so has the brain fog. I'm able to talk to people and enjoy the conversations again to a degree and concentrate in class better. Again this might indicate to me that my anxiousness was exasperating the problems and that positive thinking and actions can help alleviate this.
*My genitals most of the time feel numb and I have started to develop varicous veins, particularly noticeable on my testicles but also some on my penis and I often get pains down there which are often preceded by another vein showing up. No shrinkage yet.
*Two out of the last three days I have woken up with weak morning wood. When this happens I practice kegels to try and force blood through but it quickly disappears.
*I have awful sleeping patterns, mostly waking up at least four times per night. This leads me to have very low energy most days and it does effect other areas like concentration.


I guess I have a few questions if anyone would be up to answering them. I'm going to see Dr Andrew Rynne on friday who is listed as having dealt with PFS before on the foundation website. Does anyone have any experience with him or is there anything that I should be asking whilst there? Judging by my symptoms, should I be looking to jump onto the protocol here or am I more wise to wait it out for a few weeks to see if I improve? I have a tripped booked to go to South America with a friend in August for a month, if I do get on the protocol it might be difficult to follow to a T whilst there, is there a way to mitigate the negatives that not being able to adhere to it my bring? Should I consider not going? If not getting on the protocol is my best course of action is there anything else that I may be doing to help with the numbness in my genitals other than the hot baths I've been taking. My currently taking a mixture of vitamins (B,C,D, Zinc, Creatine, l-arginine and garlic tablets) and I have tribulus being delivered today though I am hesitant to take it as I've heard that it can trigger another crash. Any advice in this regard?

Thank you in advance to anyone willing to read this and answer. I know that the amount of time I've dealt with this is tiny in comparison to some here and my symptoms currently are probably rather minor at this stage compared with what many have gone through. I just want to make the next few steps that I take the best that I can.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi everyone, I'm not really sure I have a right to post here as I am only three weeks off the drug. But as I'm sure you've all experienced, it's been a hell of a three weeks and I'm sick at looking at horror stories and giving myself a negative feedback loop so I thought I'd rather preempt the possibility of this being a long term thing in the right way rather than just setting myself up for the worst in the wrong way. And before I continue I just want to add that I truly am sorry for and in awe of the people who have kept their heads held high throughout dealing with this bastard long term. Just surviving that with any semblance of normal life is a victory in my opinion.

So a little about myself. I'm a 30 year old male, extremely fit strength wise and currently studying as a mature student here in Ireland. Last October I got fin prescribed to me online after noticing a minor shed and doing some research on the stuff on Reddit and becoming confident that A. It was safe and that only a tiny minority got any side effects and that B. if I did get side effects then they would clear up as soon as I got off the drug.
Fast forward to the end of January and I'm going out that night and I decide to pop one off in the shower. Nothing much happens and I end up ejaculating with a semi and I don't think much of it as I didn't have porn to look at and just chalk it up to a bad wank. The next day hungover, and I feel different as usually I'd be very horny hungover but I'm at work and can't test the theory. On Monday, same again. It takes an age to get up even watching porn and I bin the fin. It's not worth it. Over the next few days my energy levels completely evaporated, my mood changed, I had insane levels of mind fog, blurred vision and slurring of words and I was more or less completely impotent other than when I really concentrate watching porn and even then the erections are crap. For about eight days I was near suicidal but then I get a relief from the symptoms, I feel the DHT returning and my body responding. I feel horny again! This lasted for about three days until I feel anxiousness creeping back and my erections disappearing. And other than one miraculous day last Tuesday (14th) where I was feeling better than I was pre fin many of my symptoms are back.

This is where I am 22 days after quitting the drug:

*Pretty much completely impotent with zero libido currently. I haven't been able to get it up manually since Thursday.
*I would describe my mood as severely depressed over the past few weeks but I'm open to the idea that a lot of it may be mental as before even knowing about this site I'd known of Wim Hof and practiced meditation somewhat and upon reading English's post on propeciahelp forum my mood elevated and I've managed to stay positive enough with the help of cold showers, heavy lifting, Wim Hof breathing and some meditation.
*As well as my my mood lifting this past couple of days, so has the brain fog. I'm able to talk to people and enjoy the conversations again to a degree and concentrate in class better. Again this might indicate to me that my anxiousness was exasperating the problems and that positive thinking and actions can help alleviate this.
*My genitals most of the time feel numb and I have started to develop varicous veins, particularly noticeable on my testicles but also some on my penis and I often get pains down there which are often preceded by another vein showing up. No shrinkage yet.
*Two out of the last three days I have woken up with weak morning wood. When this happens I practice kegels to try and force blood through but it quickly disappears.
*I have awful sleeping patterns, mostly waking up at least four times per night. This leads me to have very low energy most days and it does effect other areas like concentration.


I guess I have a few questions if anyone would be up to answering them. I'm going to see Dr Andrew Rynne on friday who is listed as having dealt with PFS before on the foundation website. Does anyone have any experience with him or is there anything that I should be asking whilst there? Judging by my symptoms, should I be looking to jump onto the protocol here or am I more wise to wait it out for a few weeks to see if I improve? I have a tripped booked to go to South America with a friend in August for a month, if I do get on the protocol it might be difficult to follow to a T whilst there, is there a way to mitigate the negatives that not being able to adhere to it my bring? Should I consider not going? If not getting on the protocol is my best course of action is there anything else that I may be doing to help with the numbness in my genitals other than the hot baths I've been taking. My currently taking a mixture of vitamins (B,C,D, Zinc, Creatine, l-arginine and garlic tablets) and I have tribulus being delivered today though I am hesitant to take it as I've heard that it can trigger another crash. Any advice in this regard?

Thank you in advance to anyone willing to read this and answer. I know that the amount of time I've dealt with this is tiny in comparison to some here and my symptoms currently are probably rather minor at this stage compared with what many have gone through. I just want to make the next few steps that I take the best that I can.

Welcome.

Because you are so new off of the drug and you were only on it for such a short amount of time, I bet if you jumped on the protocol now, you'd be pretty much good to go for your South America trip in August.

No need to waste anymore time trying to decide. We know what you need to do....you just have to convince yourself that is what you need. The sooner you start the sooner your nightmare will be over.

Follow the directions here: Total Male Optimization Just another WordPress site (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/)

[jimmyjonas]

Hi Coppersocks,

My advice to you is this as follows as my situation is very similiar to yours and I am also based in Ireland.

1. Get off all other forums relating to finasteride side effects like propecia help, HairLossTalk etc Do not look at them, they will set you back no end and will seriously damage your psychological state at this stage, you need hope now, this site will give you hope. I seriously fucked myself up reading those sites, most mean well but there are guys there determined to believe that PFS is permanent and that you are fucked for life, every scientific post they write just goes round in a circle and that's why many have been logging in for years, they will never get better with that mindset. they shoot down any posts suggesting otherwise, a negative circle jerk. Stay away. I read a post from the guy English stating something similiar. I truly believe that if men got hit with PFS and found Swole Source first instead of Propecia Help there would be far more recoveries. I trawled through that shit for months before I found Swole Source so you've done well finding it early on. The negative stories can imprint on your brain leading men to believe it's all over, it's not.

2. Get on the protocol asap, I have introduced elements and am gearing up to go full on, it's already helping me

3. Don't drink alcohol and no fap for now. Very important.

Again for me I took ten steps backwards before I got here so you can avoid that. I spent a fortune on docs first few months and spoke to Dr Rynne but I believe here is the way to go man, doctors did not help me. Dr Rynne means well but again I nearly had a total meltdown when I read some of his posts online as in you are doomed and it's permanent. I think he looks at TRT and drug treatment but again here is the way to go.

To wrap up stay positive, believe it's only temporary and just hang here until you get better.

Good luck

Jimmy

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Coppersocks,

My advice to you is this as follows as my situation is very similiar to yours and I am also based in Ireland.

1. Get off all other forums relating to finasteride side effects like propecia help, HairLossTalk etc Do not look at them, they will set you back no end and will seriously damage your psychological state at this stage, you need hope now, this site will give you hope. I seriously fucked myself up reading those sites, most mean well but there are guys there determined to believe that PFS is permanent and that you are fucked for life, every scientific post they write just goes round in a circle and that's why many have been logging in for years, they will never get better with that mindset. they shoot down any posts suggesting otherwise, a negative circle jerk. Stay away. I read a post from the guy English stating something similiar. I truly believe that if men got hit with PFS and found Swole Source first instead of Propecia Help there would be far more recoveries. I trawled through that shit for months before I found Swole Source so you've done well finding it early on. The negative stories can imprint on your brain leading men to believe it's all over, it's not.

2. Get on the protocol asap, I have introduced elements and am gearing up to go full on, it's already helping me

3. Don't drink alcohol and no fap for now. Very important.

Again for me I took ten steps backwards before I got here so you can avoid that. I spent a fortune on docs first few months and spoke to Dr Rynne but I believe here is the way to go man, doctors did not help me. Dr Rynne means well but again I nearly had a total meltdown when I read some of his posts online as in you are doomed and it's permanent. I think he looks at TRT and drug treatment but again here is the way to go.

To wrap up stay positive, believe it's only temporary and just hang here until you get better.

Good luck

Jimmy

Good for you.

Wait until you see what a 100% commitment will bring you. Make it your life. Stay the course. You'll be out of the woods before you know it.

[coppersocks]

Thanks for the words guys. You're very right jimmy, those sites did as much for my anxiety as the actual symptoms and they contributed massively towards some very dark thoughts, the likes of which I never intend to have again.
CDsnuts, I've been going through your protocol this past couple of hours and am writing down my next steps. I'll be purchasing the herbs this week with a view to starting at least a weeks juice feast coming up. I'm very much considering quitting my part time job in order to concentrate solely on recovery and college work. Out of the various things listed on the protocol I am already experienced with cold water therapy, meditation, the Wim Hof method, paleo diet (though so far I've never subscribed to it wholeheartedly as I like bread too much!) and weight lifting. This will give me a base of familiarity from which to build.
I have a couple of questions.
1. In regards to weight lifting I currently do varying version's of Layne Nortons PHAT routine which is quite intensive and volume heavy. Am I OK to continue with this post feast or is it recommended that I use a less strenuous routine?
2. Have you any experience with the nootropic piracetaam? I took it for about three months last year and I have to say the the results were what I would describe as the opposite to PFS, increased mental clarity, word recall, general memory etc... Am I advised to just stick to those listed or would it be ok add this to my stack?
3. If my trip to the doctor ends with him advising me on some form of TRT or erectile dysfunction drug, what would be your advise here? To turn it down? It seems that hormone replacement seems to only be of short term benefit most PFS in my experience.
4. Unfortunately there's one thing on the list that I know that I absolutely will not be able to do. Sunning my boys is out. I live in Ireland. :)

Again thanks for both your feedback. Since reading English's post and then coming here I feel much more focused on recovery instead of the intense... grief I had over my symptoms and for what they might mean for my life and whether I wanted to actually live that life. And for that I thank you again CDsnuts. For the first time in three weeks I no long hope to get better but know I will. However long it takes I'll get there, I'll keep you all updated.

[coppersocks]

Also Jimmy, can I ask what symptoms you have and what have you seen some relief on since implementing some of the protocol? I love hearing positive stories! Thanks

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the words guys. You're very right jimmy, those sites did as much for my anxiety as the actual symptoms and they contributed massively towards some very dark thoughts, the likes of which I never intend to have again.
CDsnuts, I've been going through your protocol this past couple of hours and am writing down my next steps. I'll be purchasing the herbs this week with a view to starting at least a weeks juice feast coming up. I'm very much considering quitting my part time job in order to concentrate solely on recovery and college work. Out of the various things listed on the protocol I am already experienced with cold water therapy, meditation, the Wim Hof method, paleo diet (though so far I've never subscribed to it wholeheartedly as I like bread too much!) and weight lifting. This will give me a base of familiarity from which to build.
If you have to have bread, get a gluten free variety. You need to AVOID GLUTEN
I have a couple of questions.
1. In regards to weight lifting I currently do varying version's of Layne Nortons PHAT routine which is quite intensive and volume heavy. Am I OK to continue with this post feast or is it recommended that I use a less strenuous routine?
The routine is fine but you want to gauge your intensity after the feast because you're going to be a bit weaker right afterwords then you typically would be. You don't want to over do it and cause a cortisol spike....tread lightly for a few days/weeks
2. Have you any experience with the nootropic piracetaam? I took it for about three months last year and I have to say the the results were what I would describe as the opposite to PFS, increased mental clarity, word recall, general memory etc... Am I advised to just stick to those listed or would it be ok add this to my stack?I personally like nootropics. Just becareful with some of them because certain ones are known to kill libido after continued use such as Noopept. They are best used sparingly for when you need the extra kick. I'm actually going to have a page on them as well.
3. If my trip to the doctor ends with him advising me on some form of TRT or erectile dysfunction drug, what would be your advise here? To turn it down? It seems that hormone replacement seems to only be of short term benefit most PFS in my experience. TRT....turn it down. Don't even consider it. If he prescribes you some type of PDE5 inhibitor, they can be useful in certain situations and if used, again, sparingly. You don't want to come to rely on them but every once in awhile during the beginning of your recovery is fine because it will help build your confidence. JUST DON'T OVER DO IT. You could also try horny goat weed instead as it's a natural pde5 inhibitor See here: Horny Goat Weed (aka Epimedium) Total Male Optimization (http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com/horny-goat-weed/)
4. Unfortunately there's one thing on the list that I know that I absolutely will not be able to do. Sunning my boys is out. I live in Ireland. :)
Lol...I guess not much you can do there....just increase your Vit. D intake instead and on the off chance you do see the sun, whip em out!

Again thanks for both your feedback. Since reading English's post and then coming here I feel much more focused on recovery instead of the intense... grief I had over my symptoms and for what they might mean for my life and whether I wanted to actually live that life. And for that I thank you again CDsnuts. For the first time in three weeks I no long hope to get better but know I will. However long it takes I'll get there, I'll keep you all updated.

You most certainly will. Remember....this is a lifestyle overhaul and not a magic bullet. Commit 100% and you'll get to where you want to be.

Good luck to you, and welcome.

[jimmyjonas]

I hear you about sunning the boys, I'm from Dublin so Sun is a rare treat!

Anyway being honest I'm still in the valley with this shit and have a way to go so won't lie to you and say all is rosy, but from going from living in hell for months to periods of at first from half a day to a full week of feeling normal mentally things are turning for me and I am starting to recognise what makes me feel stable and what makes me plummet and send me to the edge.

My sides are genital numbness (as in shaft doesn't sense touch) and lessened sensitivity in head and testicles, penis has developed a bad curve to left which slowly crept up on me, testicular pain, and loss of morning erections and loss of any libido or desire for my gf and just general loss of mojo for want of a better word. Also severe insomnia ,anxiety, loss of muscle and appetite.

Now as I said I have not fully embraced the program yet namely the full juice feast, I have started going paleo and hitting gym using hiit and have purchased small amount of herbs still more to go along with brief spells of water fasting for two days is longest I've gone, I am back in work full time so not in a position to do full water fast so I will go juice feast, I have a week off start of march that's when I will hit this full on with feast etc.
'
Anyway when I have applied above this has coincided with me feeling mentally much more stable and return of morning erections and small bit of desire/libido so it shows me that if I hit it full on I can only feel much better and that it's working but more importantly I believe in this path, I have no faith in going down the trt/drug route so many it seems have tried it without success.

I didn't do myself any favours when I first got hit back in October I panicked and went to shit, I used alcohol to calm myself and didn't completely stop fap, I just did not know what I was facing and what was happening to me, I went sick from work and withdrew from friends and family, bear in mind I was super efficient in work and managed a number of staff and also juggled a busy career as a musician before this, it hit me like a train. The biggest disservice I did to myself was constantly researching forums like Propecia help but it's really the first thing that pops up when you research side effects, would be a lot more helpful if it was here as it proves it isn't permanent. The Stories made me suicidal and no doubt ramped up my anxiety and set me back dramatically, there's a lot of good guys there but I got stuck on the forums reading posts by guys such as Mew who had similiar side effects to me and who seems a very smart guy but Jesus he was hell bent on stating that we are fucked and there's no way back from it and just a seriously negative/hopeless vibe on that forum, I just plummeted reading his theories and was very very close to suicide over Christmas then found cds nuts story and English and what they were saying gave me a bit of hope.

I then found here and have slowly just started looking at this forum, this has helped me as the positivity is what we need to get through, a huge part of this is in the mind, if we give up mentally our bodies will not recover that's my belief anyway. So I see it as one step at a time, get the mind right and with doing what's stated on the protocol the rest will follow. In terms of numbness what helps is extended period of no fap, it improves after that ever so slightly.

So now my morning wood has returned every day, and that's a good start for me, the numbness is weird as in its still there and fucks with my head but I do think that could be tied to the brain switching off due to severe stress/anxiety it's a tough one as in I cannot honestly remember how sensitive I was beforehand but it still does not feel right yet particularly top of shaft. My sleep and anxiety are still a problem but I'm hoping in time they will improve once my body starts kicking back in.

Anyway I still have a ways to go and not back to myself, one thing I have learned I just cannot touch drink now it's just like my body and mind cannot handle it so I've completely cut it out which is hard in ireland and because my social life before fin revolved around it but I don't care it's just not worth the downward spiral it causes.

You are in a great position as you got here early so I hope my path here can teach you a few things about what to avoid and most importantly get on the protocol asap. Just stay positive and if you ever want to meet up for a chat in Dublin give me a shout.

Good luck man

Jimmy

[Cdsnuts]

I hear you about sunning the boys, I'm from Dublin so Sun is a rare treat!

Anyway being honest I'm still in the valley with this shit and have a way to go so won't lie to you and say all is rosy, but from going from living in hell for months to periods of at first from half a day to a full week of feeling normal mentally things are turning for me and I am starting to recognise what makes me feel stable and what makes me plummet and send me to the edge.

My sides are genital numbness (as in shaft doesn't sense touch) and lessened sensitivity in head and testicles, penis has developed a bad curve to left which slowly crept up on me, testicular pain, and loss of morning erections and loss of any libido or desire for my gf and just general loss of mojo for want of a better word. Also severe insomnia ,anxiety, loss of muscle and appetite.

Now as I said I have not fully embraced the program yet namely the full juice feast, I have started going paleo and hitting gym using hiit and have purchased small amount of herbs still more to go along with brief spells of water fasting for two days is longest I've gone, I am back in work full time so not in a position to do full water fast so I will go juice feast, I have a week off start of march that's when I will hit this full on with feast etc.
'
Anyway when I have applied above this has coincided with me feeling mentally much more stable and return of morning erections and small bit of desire/libido so it shows me that if I hit it full on I can only feel much better and that it's working but more importantly I believe in this path, I have no faith in going down the trt/drug route so many it seems have tried it without success.

I didn't do myself any favours when I first got hit back in October I panicked and went to shit, I used alcohol to calm myself and didn't completely stop fap, I just did not know what I was facing and what was happening to me, I went sick from work and withdrew from friends and family, bear in mind I was super efficient in work and managed a number of staff and also juggled a busy career as a musician before this, it hit me like a train. The biggest disservice I did to myself was constantly researching forums like Propecia help but it's really the first thing that pops up when you research side effects, would be a lot more helpful if it was here as it proves it isn't permanent. The Stories made me suicidal and no doubt ramped up my anxiety and set me back dramatically, there's a lot of good guys there but I got stuck on the forums reading posts by guys such as Mew who had similiar side effects to me and who seems a very smart guy but Jesus he was hell bent on stating that we are fucked and there's no way back from it and just a seriously negative/hopeless vibe on that forum, I just plummeted reading his theories and was very very close to suicide over Christmas then found cds nuts story and English and what they were saying gave me a bit of hope.

I then found here and have slowly just started looking at this forum, this has helped me as the positivity is what we need to get through, a huge part of this is in the mind, if we give up mentally our bodies will not recover that's my belief anyway. So I see it as one step at a time, get the mind right and with doing what's stated on the protocol the rest will follow. In terms of numbness what helps is extended period of no fap, it improves after that ever so slightly.

So now my morning wood has returned every day, and that's a good start for me, the numbness is weird as in its still there and fucks with my head but I do think that could be tied to the brain switching off due to severe stress/anxiety it's a tough one as in I cannot honestly remember how sensitive I was beforehand but it still does not feel right yet particularly top of shaft. My sleep and anxiety are still a problem but I'm hoping in time they will improve once my body starts kicking back in.

Anyway I still have a ways to go and not back to myself, one thing I have learned I just cannot touch drink now it's just like my body and mind cannot handle it so I've completely cut it out which is hard in ireland and because my social life before fin revolved around it but I don't care it's just not worth the downward spiral it causes.

You are in a great position as you got here early so I hope my path here can teach you a few things about what to avoid and most importantly get on the protocol asap. Just stay positive and if you ever want to meet up for a chat in Dublin give me a shout.

Good luck man

Jimmy

This is how it starts....

You'll start to have good, clear days...even if it's just for a little while. The good days will become more often and last longer and the bad days will start to decrease.....little by little. After months and months you'll start to have more good days then bad days until the bad days are in the minority...and then eventually, you won't have anymore bad days..

You just have to stay the course.

[jimmyjonas]

This is how it starts....

You'll start to have good, clear days...even if it's just for a little while. The good days will become more often and last longer and the bad days will start to decrease.....little by little. After months and months you'll start to have more good days then bad days until the bad days are in the minority...and then eventually, you won't have anymore bad days..

You just have to stay the course.

Thanks man, appreciate the support.

[coppersocks]

Ok, I bought my juicer today and look set to start on Saturday or Sunday. My housemate is doing it to for moral support and probably so he can put it on social media.:D
I also went to the health food shop and bought Magnesium to help with the sleep and found Rhodiola to add to my rotation, I'm going to Dublin tomorrow to see the Doctor on Friday (I've already made the appointment and it would be good to hear from someone who acknowledges PFS face to face even if I don't end up following his instructions.) so will be looking to pick up some more herbs. Couple of quick questions:

1. Can someone look over my selection of herbs and just tell me if they're lacking in any way or are the a good start: Tribulus, Horny Goat Weed, Iodine, Cordyceps, Rhodiola, Macuna, Citanche and Pine Pollen which I will take daily.
2. Has anyone any experience with CBD oil, it seems to lower Cortisol and have healing properties when vaped. My friend takes it and loves it. Is this recommended or should I just stick to the protocol?
3. Also is seven days enough for the fast?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Cdsnuts]

Ok, I bought my juicer today and look set to start on Saturday or Sunday. My housemate is doing it to for moral support and probably so he can put it on social media.:D
I also went to the health food shop and bought Magnesium to help with the sleep and found Rhodiola to add to my rotation, I'm going to Dublin tomorrow to see the Doctor on Friday (I've already made the appointment and it would be good to hear from someone who acknowledges PFS face to face even if I don't end up following his instructions.) so will be looking to pick up some more herbs. Couple of quick questions:

1. Can someone look over my selection of herbs and just tell me if they're lacking in any way or are the a good start: Tribulus, Horny Goat Weed, Iodine, Cordyceps, Rhodiola, Macuna, Citanche and Pine Pollen which I will take daily.
2. Has anyone any experience with CBD oil, it seems to lower Cortisol and have healing properties when vaped. My friend takes it and loves it. Is this recommended or should I just stick to the protocol?
3. Also is seven days enough for the fast?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

I'd prefer everyone does two weeks on the feast, but seven days is better then nothing and you'll still get benefits.

Have you read the page on juice feasting and know how much you have to take in?

CBD oil is okay to take.

As funds become available, you want to increase your herb stash over time so that you can work your way up to a 21 day rotation cycle. The more varied herbs you have, the better your results will be as each one of them works to increase testosterone a little bit differently. Some herbs work better for different people then others so you want to make sure all of your bases are covered.

Other than that, it looks good.

Make sure to take in enough water during the feast as well.

It may help you to post your experiences during the feast almost like keeping a journal. This will be helpful to others who are planning on doing it for themselves.

Good luck.

[coppersocks]

Yeah I'll be looking to add some more to the stash in the near future, most likely next week. And yeah, I've looked over feasting section. I'm looking to take in roughly five liters a day (just over 5 quarts), in mixtures of green veg, a vegetables you've mentioned and some pure fruit mixes. I'm gonna mix it up daily so as to get the nutrition I need. Is it OK to add some root ginger at times or is that a no go? I'd love to do longer than the seven days but I've some logistical problems arising the following week so it may be an issue but I'm certainly gonna go for as long as I can.
I will of course keep everyone updated here, it'll certainly help me stay focused and also hopefully someone in the future might find it useful if they find themselves in a similar position to mine.

[Cdsnuts]

You can certainly add ginger root to any of the mixtures if you prefer

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[coppersocks]

Hi all, just a quick update.
Went to a doctor who has a lot of experience with PFS (he's written papers on it) and he said he was encouraged by my case and that he didn't want to throw any drugs at it, which I firmly agree with. He also stated that a regime of exercise, healthy eating and supplements seem to do the most good, again- agreed. We left it at that and he said to check back in on him in a few months. To be honest it was a bit of a waste of a trip as he didn't really tell me anything new but it was good to speak to someone face to face for what it was worth. Interestingly he also told me that he has between 15 and 20 people on his books that are dealing with PFS.
Anyway, after treating myself yesterday to an full Irish breakfast, a lamb korma with rice and naan, and several massive donuts my new life starts today with the juice feast. Last night I made 4 litres of celery, kale, spinich, cabbage, carrot and apple juice. And a liter of apple, orange and blackberry. It's a bit of a endeavor but I know it'll be worth it. I am worried about the amount of muscle I'll lose but it is what it is and I want to be past this affliction more that anything.
I was also able to pick up a couple more herbs on my trip also; I now have Eleuthero, Maca, Royal Jelly, Rhodiola, Tribulus, Tongkat and Horny Goat Weed. And am looking to add Ant Extract, Pine Pollen and Cordyceps within the next week.
Quick question: Out of curiosity, is there a reason that Korean Ginseng isn't listed?

[coppersocks]

I could murder a bloody protein shake right about now.

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[Hulk Smash]

I don't know about Korean Ginseng, but from my experience its easier/better to stick to the list.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi all, just a quick update.
Went to a doctor who has a lot of experience with PFS (he's written papers on it) and he said he was encouraged by my case and that he didn't want to throw any drugs at it, which I firmly agree with. He also stated that a regime of exercise, healthy eating and supplements seem to do the most good, again- agreed. We left it at that and he said to check back in on him in a few months. To be honest it was a bit of a waste of a trip as he didn't really tell me anything new but it was good to speak to someone face to face for what it was worth. Interestingly he also told me that he has between 15 and 20 people on his books that are dealing with PFS.
Anyway, after treating myself yesterday to an full Irish breakfast, a lamb korma with rice and naan, and several massive donuts my new life starts today with the juice feast. Last night I made 4 litres of celery, kale, spinich, cabbage, carrot and apple juice. And a liter of apple, orange and blackberry. It's a bit of a endeavor but I know it'll be worth it. I am worried about the amount of muscle I'll lose but it is what it is and I want to be past this affliction more that anything.
I was also able to pick up a couple more herbs on my trip also; I now have Eleuthero, Maca, Royal Jelly, Rhodiola, Tribulus, Tongkat and Horny Goat Weed. And am looking to add Ant Extract, Pine Pollen and Cordyceps within the next week.
Quick question: Out of curiosity, is there a reason that Korean Ginseng isn't listed?
I only recommend things that I've had positive experiences with. I have experimented with Korean ginseng in the past but didn't notice any benefits worth sharing.

Out of everything I have tried over the past six or seven years the list is the culmination of the best of them.

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[coppersocks]

Starting day 3 of the juice fast now. It's actually not too bad, particularly in the morning. Energy levels are still fluctuating and when they get low I seem to develop headaches and brain fog, though it's manageable compared to what it's been since I first quit. Mood goes up and down also but again, it's OK. I still get occasional hunger pangs (that are absolutely not helped by working in a shopping center next to a butcher that insists on cooking bacon and burgers on a BBQ at their front door!) but it seems the key is to just keep drinking the juice even when I'm not hungry. Sleep wasn't great last night as I had some quite vivid dreams that seemed to occur in shallow sleep though this has often been the case since developing sides. Still I slept from around 11 till 4.30 which is a long stretch for me at the moment, just had difficulty maintaining sleep after that. My one biggest issue that I've had to deal with is body temperature! I'm always cold but it is what it is.
I've also started a rotation of seven herbs, my libido is non existent but I'm encouraged by the fact that most nights I get nocturnal semi's though I haven't been at full mast in over a week now. If this is my baseline then so be it. It's a long road but I'm just gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[Cdsnuts]

Starting day 3 of the juice fast now. It's actually not too bad, particularly in the morning. Energy levels are still fluctuating and when they get low I seem to develop headaches and brain fog, though it's manageable compared to what it's been since I first quit. Mood goes up and down also but again, it's OK. I still get occasional hunger pangs (that are absolutely not helped by working in a shopping center next to a butcher that insists on cooking bacon and burgers on a BBQ at their front door!) but it seems the key is to just keep drinking the juice even when I'm not hungry. Sleep wasn't great last night as I had some quite vivid dreams that seemed to occur in shallow sleep though this has often been the case since developing sides. Still I slept from around 11 till 4.30 which is a long stretch for me at the moment, just had difficulty maintaining sleep after that. My one biggest issue that I've had to deal with is body temperature! I'm always cold but it is what it is.
I've also started a rotation of seven herbs, my libido is non existent but I'm encouraged by the fact that most nights I get nocturnal semi's though I haven't been at full mast in over a week now. If this is my baseline then so be it. It's a long road but I'm just gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other.

There is no sense rotating the herbs during the juice feast. Save them for afterwords.

In regards to body temperature, you're going to be colder then usual during the feast. This is a function of the type of calories your getting more then anything and a general trend of detox.

[jimmyjonas]

Fair play, keep us updated, I'm starting the feast next week, has your numbness improved at all?

[coppersocks]

Numbness has improved yes. Around Wednesday (I think) I've noticed more blood coursing through and so it hasn't been as "tingly" if you know what I mean, but I still don't really feel the brain-genitals connection, libido is still hovering just above zero.
One think that has continued is getting the a pain in my sack or shaft and then an appearance of a varicous vain soon after. I know we generally refrain from talk of symptoms here but out of curiosity are these a normal, dangerous or reversible symptom?

EDIT: Also CD, I'll get off the herbs until I've finished the fast, I must have gotten mixed up as I thought I read about people doing them whilst on it.

[Cdsnuts]

Numbness has improved yes. Around Wednesday (I think) I've noticed more blood coursing through and so it hasn't been as "tingly" if you know what I mean, but I still don't really feel the brain-genitals connection, libido is still hovering just above zero.
One think that has continued is getting the a pain in my sack or shaft and then an appearance of a varicous vain soon after. I know we generally refrain from talk of symptoms here but out of curiosity are these a normal, dangerous or reversible symptom?

EDIT: Also CD, I'll get off the herbs until I've finished the fast, I must have gotten mixed up as I thought I read about people doing them whilst on it.

You guys have to take the feast/fast for what it is... It's a cleanse. Generally people will notice a reduction in certain symptoms during the fast such as anxiety and insomnia and will get a general feeling of well-being for the first time in a long while but other than that you aren't going to notice a complete reversal of sexual symptoms.

This comes later on in the process.

The cleanse is simply designed to flush your system so that you're operating cleanly. It puts your body in a more receptive state to start the building up/healing process.

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[coppersocks]

OK an update from me. I finished the cleanse on Sunday which was day nine. It wasn't a long one compared to some others but some things going on this week made it much more difficult to continue. The actual fast wasn't that bad as the idea of hunger wore off after about day 4 or 5 and it just made me realise how much I eat for reasons other than hunger, last day was tough though as I knew it was ending soon. The reason I haven't given an update sooner is because I'm trying to give this as little of my head space as possible, yes it's a bitch but there's other things I want to do and enjoy and I'm determined to do that. So to that end of booked tickets to go to several gigs and comedy shows during the summer before my trip. I'm motivated to enjoy them as the idea of being able to laugh and enjoy music seemed impossible to me six weeks ago.

Anyway, last Thursday I felt a major lift of my libido and ED symptoms and I have been has horny as a teenager the past week and being able to get erections whenever I wanted, my major issue was the coming and going of brain fog that seemed to change up every few hours or so. Now, that was until this morning when I literally felt the numb feeling drain my genitals and return within the space of a couple of minutes. I literally could feel it happen and was left with a numb feeling penis and a slight ache in my testicles.
I now have 14 of the herbs and when ordering them I also ordered some pregnenolone as I've been looking around the site and saw it recommended. My first 50mg of that was yesterday and I'm thinking that perhaps I jumped on it too soon and that this could be the cause for my onset of symptom ED? I also stupidly masturbated yesterday evening for the first time in ages so maybe it was that? Or maybe this is just part of the two steps forwars, one step back process? I don't know, if anyone could shed light on this recent development itd be appreciated.

Outside of that I've been following the protocol to a T since monday and I'm really enjoying it. It's really not that difficult to follow and the routine of it helps give structure to the rest of my day. Absolute favorite part of it is the ice cold shower in the evening as it fills my head with endorphins and such a relaxed feeling just before bed. I still can't sleep past 6 am but the magnesium and glycine really make that a deep, deep sleep which was unheard of for me before. All in all mostly good other than this thing this morning.

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[coppersocks]

Just to add, my order of 5a-DHP came today in a ridiculously short amount of time, I thought it would take a few weeks not days! Am I advised to take that or should I leave the preg and that aside for now considering my latest developments?

[Cdsnuts]

OK an update from me. I finished the cleanse on Sunday which was day nine. It wasn't a long one compared to some others but some things going on this week made it much more difficult to continue. The actual fast wasn't that bad as the idea of hunger wore off after about day 4 or 5 and it just made me realise how much I eat for reasons other than hunger, last day was tough though as I knew it was ending soon. The reason I haven't given an update sooner is because I'm trying to give this as little of my head space as possible, yes it's a bitch but there's other things I want to do and enjoy and I'm determined to do that. So to that end of booked tickets to go to several gigs and comedy shows during the summer before my trip. I'm motivated to enjoy them as the idea of being able to laugh and enjoy music seemed impossible to me six weeks ago.

Anyway, last Thursday I felt a major lift of my libido and ED symptoms and I have been has horny as a teenager the past week and being able to get erections whenever I wanted, my major issue was the coming and going of brain fog that seemed to change up every few hours or so. Now, that was until this morning when I literally felt the numb feeling drain my genitals and return within the space of a couple of minutes. I literally could feel it happen and was left with a numb feeling penis and a slight ache in my testicles.
I now have 14 of the herbs and when ordering them I also ordered some pregnenolone as I've been looking around the site and saw it recommended. My first 50mg of that was yesterday and I'm thinking that perhaps I jumped on it too soon and that this could be the cause for my onset of symptom ED? I also stupidly masturbated yesterday evening for the first time in ages so maybe it was that? Or maybe this is just part of the two steps forwars, one step back process? I don't know, if anyone could shed light on this recent development itd be appreciated.

Outside of that I've been following the protocol to a T since monday and I'm really enjoying it. It's really not that difficult to follow and the routine of it helps give structure to the rest of my day. Absolute favorite part of it is the ice cold shower in the evening as it fills my head with endorphins and such a relaxed feeling just before bed. I still can't sleep past 6 am but the magnesium and glycine really make that a deep, deep sleep which was unheard of for me before. All in all mostly good other than this thing this morning.

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I don't recommend the preg, so I can't talk in regards to that. When you throw that in there, it could be the reason for the issue or not, but we'll never be able to tell.

The masturbation could have precipitated it because you were in such a fragile state...one of the reasons I urge against it.

Most likely though, this is just par for the course. No one has ever cured their ED by doing a 9 day juice feast. You could feel the power in it though and could imagine how the benefits would be if you went for two weeks or longer. The longer you go, the better the results.

Get used to this, btw....this is the way it typically is for most all the way until the end. Two steps forward, one step back.

Congrats on your success thus far.

[coppersocks]

Quick update. Today (well this morning and last night) is my worst time period in a couple of weeks. I have low energy, very low libido, interrupted sleep and quite a bit of brain fog. I also have that tingly sensation through out my body and my amateurish brain attributes this to low dopamine/unregulated serotonin as it's not unlike the feeling I've had before on an ecstasy comedown. Obviously these things particularly in combination can greatly effect mood so I'm kinda dreading going to work right now but having said all of that I'm keeping as up beat as I can. I've felt worse during this and come out better. In fact I've noticed that I generally have an upswing right as I'm feeling my worst, my last upswing lasting five days where I felt pretty great most of the time with a very healthy libido.
Anyway, protocol wise I'm doing well. I can't state how much benefit I feel I derive from the cold showers, if people are on the fence regarding them, do it! I find the best benefit comes from them when I have one immediately after a HOT bath. I find hot baths beneficial for genital circulation and after half an hour of soaking I let the water out and immediately turn the ice cold water on a usually stay under for about 3 or 4 minutes. Afterwards I have an incredible calm and pleasant feeling. The rest of the protocol is simple once you have the routine, breath work is seeing some great results too (held my breath for 3 mins 26 seconds a couple of days ago) but I sometimes do pure meditation every now and then instead if I want to solely focus on mindfulness.

Also, I have both pregnenolone and 5a-dhp in my arsenal currently but I think I'm going to give them both a rest for at least a month and concentrate solely on whats in the plan. These things can always be added later once I'm in a less fragile and up and down state.

So yeah, not much to report though I think it's important to document the ups and downs both for myself and others. I'm disappointed though not surprised to be going through a trough but still looking and working towards the next peak. Hopefully the next one will be even higher again.

[Cdsnuts]

Quick update. Today (well this morning and last night) is my worst time period in a couple of weeks. I have low energy, very low libido, interrupted sleep and quite a bit of brain fog. I also have that tingly sensation through out my body and my amateurish brain attributes this to low dopamine/unregulated serotonin as it's not unlike the feeling I've had before on an ecstasy comedown. Obviously these things particularly in combination can greatly effect mood so I'm kinda dreading going to work right now but having said all of that I'm keeping as up beat as I can. I've felt worse during this and come out better. In fact I've noticed that I generally have an upswing right as I'm feeling my worst, my last upswing lasting five days where I felt pretty great most of the time with a very healthy libido.
Anyway, protocol wise I'm doing well. I can't state how much benefit I feel I derive from the cold showers, if people are on the fence regarding them, do it! I find the best benefit comes from them when I have one immediately after a HOT bath. I find hot baths beneficial for genital circulation and after half an hour of soaking I let the water out and immediately turn the ice cold water on a usually stay under for about 3 or 4 minutes. Afterwards I have an incredible calm and pleasant feeling. The rest of the protocol is simple once you have the routine, breath work is seeing some great results too (held my breath for 3 mins 26 seconds a couple of days ago) but I sometimes do pure meditation every now and then instead if I want to solely focus on mindfulness.

Also, I have both pregnenolone and 5a-dhp in my arsenal currently but I think I'm going to give them both a rest for at least a month and concentrate solely on whats in the plan. These things can always be added later once I'm in a less fragile and up and down state.

So yeah, not much to report though I think it's important to document the ups and downs both for myself and others. I'm disappointed though not surprised to be going through a trough but still looking and working towards the next peak. Hopefully the next one will be even higher again.

Up swings are usually always preceded by feeling very shitty....worse then you typically do. When this happens you know you have something to look forward to very soon.

It sounds like your taking to the protocol very nicely and gaining the benefits you should be.

If you want to kick things up a notch, try doing 4-5 rounds of breathwork, and THEN doing a cold shower. The two compound the results of each other. It's rather amazing.

[Aflac]

coppersocks have you found anything that triggers your poor sleep?

My sleep has been really bad since crashing. On the bad nights I may get only 3 hours and somehow I don't feel sleepy throughout the following day; there is no increased pressure/drive to sleep. Lately I've had some good days in a row (I'm a different person when that happens), and I think to myself, maybe I am past the interrupted sleep. But then I have a bad night or a few bad nights and I'm back to feeling terrible. Seems to be a perpetual cycle. I haven't found many triggers. Most times the bad nights seem random, but the one predictor is intense exercise. I can tolerate light exercise (jog), but weight training or ice hockey just ruins me, I feel terrible afterwards, and often I can't sleep well after these activities.

However, once I get decent sleep for a few days, I'm like okay I want to exercise with some intensity. Then I get to exercising and it wrecks my sleep. It's a viscous cycle. I guess I'm not ready for the heavy exercise. Has heavy exercise affected your sleep negatively?


Also, the tingling you describe, would you consider that like a vibrating sensation? Is that around the time of your sleep onset? Haven't found anyone else with this symptom.

[Cdsnuts]

coppersocks have you found anything that triggers your poor sleep?

My sleep has been really bad since crashing. On the bad nights I may get only 3 hours and somehow I don't feel sleepy throughout the following day; there is no increased pressure/drive to sleep. Lately I've had some good days in a row (I'm a different person when that happens), and I think to myself, maybe I am past the interrupted sleep. But then I have a bad night or a few bad nights and I'm back to feeling terrible. Seems to be a perpetual cycle. I haven't found many triggers. Most times the bad nights seem random, but the one predictor is intense exercise. I can tolerate light exercise (jog), but weight training or ice hockey just ruins me, I feel terrible afterwards, and often I can't sleep well after these activities.

However, once I get decent sleep for a few days, I'm like okay I want to exercise with some intensity. Then I get to exercising and it wrecks my sleep. It's a viscous cycle. I guess I'm not ready for the heavy exercise. Has heavy exercise affected your sleep negatively?


Also, the tingling you describe, would you consider that like a vibrating sensation? Is that around the time of your sleep onset? Haven't found anyone else with this symptom.

Sounds like the intense exercise is spiking your cortisol. With the herb rotation this will eventually get itself under control because they all do a great job at modulating the cortisol response, but you can supplement with Bocopa Bacopa Organic Extract - Lost Empire Herbs (https://jt231.isrefer.com/go/bacopa/cdsnuts/) for added benefit.

This is one of my favorite herbs for calming the mind and bringing on intense focus with a feeling of absolute calmness.

I'll take a page out of Tubzy's book for this one because I just happened to have this study end up in my box today!
Bacopa Balances Neurotransmitters and Cortisol | Studies (http://www.wellnessresources.com/studies/bacopa_balances_neurotransmitters_and_cortisol/).

Don't get used to it Tubz.....lol

[coppersocks]

@aflac
CD is right, your cortisol is going through the roof with the heavy weights, maybe lay off them until you get a solid herb rotation and you're taking the bramhi. This used to happen to me also particularly early on but after laying off the weights for nearly two weeks whilst I did the fast I've just felt brilliant in the gym. It's difficult for me to parse which elements of the protocol are most effective for lowering coritsol as I jumped on the whole thing at once but I would seriously recommend working out early in the day, getting the magnesium and glycine if you haven't already and following a healthy sleep schedule.
Mine is about 9.30 (early I know) I run my bath, take my magnesium (400mg) and about 6g of glycine. Stay in there for about 25 minutes (I did the goddamn Wim Hof in the bath last night CD, right before switching on the shower..... man, I nearly passed out but it was worth it!) keeping the water hot and listening to something relaxing like a podcast. Then I let the water out and switch on the freezing cold shower and stay under that for a three or four minutes. After I get out I just focus on keeping my mind quite and being present in my actions so as not to let it wander too much, which is easy after the cold shower it really is. Also important is to lay off your phone and any screen as they can make your mind race and disrupt the bodies natural production of melatonin.

I know this doesn't really help you as you're constantly waking up but living right and keeping to a healthy plan is all we have. The past few days I've felt awful and yesterday before I got in my bath I had another awful pain in my testicles, I looked at it and I could literally see varicous veins appearing and the blood going through them to my heart beat. All kind of thoughts were racing through my mind but I did this, calmed myself and stopped thinking about it and today I feel better and was getting constant nocturnal wood last night. What I think was happening looking back at it was the circulation was probably returning too my genitals after a few days of a down turn and having very little blood flow and thats what was causing the pain, but I'm no doctor.

Anyway, the tingly sensation that I talked about could probably be described that way, when it happens my vision is usually quite blurry and sometimes my pupils are more dilated than they should be. It really does feel like the afterglow of MDMA if you've ever experienced that but in a bad way as it's in combination with my other symptoms.and I usually get it after a bad night of disrupted sleep. I lived with this sensation for about 3 weeks during my initial crash. Now it happens periodically as I'm slowly on the mend.

Hope this helps man.


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[Aflac]

@aflac
CD is right, your cortisol is going through the roof with the heavy weights, maybe lay off them until you get a solid herb rotation and you're taking the bramhi. This used to happen to me also particularly early on but after laying off the weights for nearly two weeks whilst I did the fast I've just felt brilliant in the gym. It's difficult for me to parse which elements of the protocol are most effective for lowering coritsol as I jumped on the whole thing at once but I would seriously recommend working out early in the day, getting the magnesium and glycine if you haven't already and following a healthy sleep schedule.
Mine is about 9.30 (early I know) I run my bath, take my magnesium (400mg) and about 6g of glycine. Stay in there for about 25 minutes (I did the goddamn Wim Hof in the bath last night CD, right before switching on the shower..... man, I nearly passed out but it was worth it!) keeping the water hot and listening to something relaxing like a podcast. Then I let the water out and switch on the freezing cold shower and stay under that for a three or four minutes. After I get out I just focus on keeping my mind quite and being present in my actions so as not to let it wander too much, which is easy after the cold shower it really is. Also important is to lay off your phone and any screen as they can make your mind race and disrupt the bodies natural production of melatonin.

I know this doesn't really help you as you're constantly waking up but living right and keeping to a healthy plan is all we have. The past few days I've felt awful and yesterday before I got in my bath I had another awful pain in my testicles, I looked at it and I could literally see varicous veins appearing and the blood going through them to my heart beat. All kind of thoughts were racing through my mind but I did this, calmed myself and stopped thinking about it and today I feel better and was getting constant nocturnal wood last night. What I think was happening looking back at it was the circulation was probably returning too my genitals after a few days of a down turn and having very little blood flow and thats what was causing the pain, but I'm no doctor.

Anyway, the tingly sensation that I talked about could probably be described that way, when it happens my vision is usually quite blurry and sometimes my pupils are more dilated than they should be. It really does feel like the afterglow of MDMA if you've ever experienced that but in a bad way as it's in combination with my other symptoms.and I usually get it after a bad night of disrupted sleep. I lived with this sensation for about 3 weeks during my initial crash. Now it happens periodically as I'm slowly on the mend.

Hope this helps man.


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Thanks for the suggestions!

What you described sounds exactly like a migraine 'aura'. I don't know if you get those headaches or just the vision sensation, but the tingling and vision distortion you describe is exactly what happens to me about 15 minutes before I am about to have a migraine headache (like a warning sign). They are called Scintillating scotomas. Poor sleep, caffeine, stress, dehydration were triggers for the aura and headache.

Strange thing is I don't seem to get them anymore since my finasteride experience (another obviously example that my nervous system / brain chemistry was altered). They were hell on earth. But they go away after several hours and then I was 100% back to normal. The disappearance of these was the only positive physical change I noticed surrounding my finasteride symptoms. However, I'd take them back in a heart beat to be normal again in the departments that have taken a hit.

Also I have bad veins / had them prior to taking finasteride. I am pretty sure I have a varicocelle too (very common in general population). Regardless of whether finasteride caused that to happen to you it should not be the root of your symptoms, lots of men have this without experiencing symptoms we have.

[coppersocks]

So update. Feeling much better than I was this time last week. Felt good in the gym and able to concentrate for the most part in college. My libido still is low but I have much more feeling down there again (no pins and needles) and it all hanging as it should. My sleep seems to have gotten settled into a pattern; fall asleep after my cold BATH (yup graduated to cold baths) about 11, wake up at 3.30 to piss then sleep again until 6. I used to hate that I couldn't sleep past that but I now enjoy the time it gives me in the morning and I can get into the gym before college well fed. Brainfog still descends most days for an hour or two at a time but it is manageable and I doubt most anyone notices unless I tell them.
My mood is mainly good, with bouts of anxiousness and flatness here and there. One thing that I'm beginning to understand through the meditation and aftermath of Wim Hof sessions is that much of my bad moods come from constantly checking in on my libido and becoming frustrated. A couple of weeks ago it came rushing back in the space of a day and stayed for about five days and I guess I'm still hopeful of that so I'm always accessing whether its happening. I really need to look at the big picture and look at the incremental steps that I'm taking rather than hoping to just wake up better, easier said than done. Chronicling all this helps though as I can go back and look at my progress.
Protocol wise, again it's simple when you get into it and you look forward to checking it off as you go about your day. It isn't hard to follow. I deviated twice this week however; I put on some aftershave on my clothes when I knew I would be studying with a gorgeous girl in my class and I had popcorn at the cinema... actually I've just looked popcorn up and it's paleo approved so I've deviated once. Sorry CD!

I also said last time that I would lay off the preg and 5a-DHP but after doing a bit more research and speaking briefly to Tubzy I've decided to continue with them as I felt I was getting benefits, mainly in the gym from the 5a and memory wise with the preg. Again when you're taking so many supplements and vitamins etc it can be hard to parse which is effecting you the most but I definitely felt I was retaining more information on the preg and it's an important time of year for my studies.

Another thing I should mention is that I'm cycling the nootropics citicoline and sulbutiamine. Citicoline is found to be a neuro protector and a dopamine agonist (which I definitely need) as well as some reports suggesting it raises libido. Sulbutiamine is a version of vitamine B (thiamine) that has greater bio availability than standard VB and it improves mood and brain function. These stacked seem to be having positive effects on my mood, concentration and study stamina, I also find that words come to me much more easily. I first heard about this stack over on a nofap sub as a guy there suggested that it helped reset his dopamine reaction to porn and that it helped cure his porn induced ED. I subsequently read up on the stack and it seems that it's considered very safe and basically a starter combo for those getting into nootropics so I thought I'd give it a go. I'm not really looking to expand it or expect any miracles from it but it seems it's just another thing that I can use to eventually get to my 100% and then when I do, past it.

That's essentially it, mostly good. One thing I do want to say is that if there are any lurkers on here who haven't jumped on yet and are worried about any aspect of the whole thing, please feel free to hit me up for any reason at all if you feel I can be of any help. It can be a lonely and daunting thing to deal with PFS so I'm always wiling to listen or help if I can. Except Ahmed Wolf, fuck that guy!:mad::D

[coppersocks]

Bit ironic after me giving sleep advice but the past few days have been pretty awful. My sleep quality took a massive nosedive and this has had a knock on effect to the rest of the day and my symptoms throughout. Been waking every few hours with strange, incredibly realistic dreams in between and not feeling rested at all leaving me pretty spaced out and unable to concentrate throughout the day which ain't great as I have a test today.
Looking at the bigger picture I've felt worse but annoyed at this latest onset as my sleep is the one element that I felt I was making constant gains on, ah well. What a difference a few days make huh?

Edit: Having just read maxouts and CDs latest replies to hulk's thread I'm gonna stop feeling sorry for myself and take this as a darkest before the dawn moment. I'm gonna head to the gym after my exam and just focus on the next upswing and how good that'll feel.

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[Cdsnuts]

Bit ironic after me giving sleep advice but the past few days have been pretty awful. My sleep quality took a massive nosedive and this has had a knock on effect to the rest of the day and my symptoms throughout. Been waking every few hours with strange, incredibly realistic dreams in between and not feeling rested at all leaving me pretty spaced out and unable to concentrate throughout the day which ain't great as I have a test today.
Looking at the bigger picture I've felt worse but annoyed at this latest onset as my sleep is the one element that I felt I was making constant gains on, ah well. What a difference a few days make huh?

Edit: Having just read maxouts and CDs latest replies to hulk's thread I'm gonna stop feeling sorry for myself and take this as a darkest before the dawn moment. I'm gonna head to the gym after my exam and just focus on the next upswing and how good that'll feel.

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Don't beat yourself up Copper....and if you're that tired, maybe just hit the sauna or do some stretching or mobility work? Maybe revving up your already blown out nervous system some more isn't a good idea until you start getting rest again? You just gotta roll with the punches.

[coppersocks]

Don't beat yourself up Copper....and if you're that tired, maybe just hit the sauna or do some stretching or mobility work? Maybe revving up your already blown out nervous system some more isn't a good idea until you start getting rest again? You just gotta roll with the punches.
Cheers man, I'm trying not to. I'm just outta the exam which didn't go as badly as expected. I'm exhausted though so I'm gonna take your advice and do my mobility work and go for a walk or something. I'm heading away with the family for five days tomorrow for my mum's birthday so I could do with a rest anyway.

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[coppersocks]

Update time.

A day after my last update myself and my siblings flew my mum out to NYC for her birthday. I took enough herbs to last me along with Vit D. Was a good time all in all but I'm dealing with bouts of anxiety, fatigue and emotional flatness which was extremely uncommon for me before. Walking round the city tired me out at times and when I would get back to the apartment I'd feel like I'd just want to sit in my room and be by myself, but by in large it was a good time. I did have a few on my last night there with a friend who I hadn't seen in ages. When I got back my hormones felt all over the place, my sleep quality whilst good in NY took a massive nosedive again and I was getting hotflashes, sweating a lot and my libido was pretty high. I was like a girl on her period basically. I think it was the combination of the long journey and the couple of drinks I had on the last night.

Anyway things seemed to have calmed down these past few days, I still get fatigue and brain fog but my libido baseline seems to be higher than most at this stage, meaning that I have't had shrunken or tingling genitals in well over a month and can mostly get hard by thinking on it- sometimes with manual stimulation, though throughout the day my day to day thoughts are rarely sexual.
I feel my biggest problems at the moment are mental. Over the course of my twenties I became a socially confident, quick witted and outgoing person. I generally feel dulled since this and this gives me bouts of anxiety and shutting my self in and avoiding most social situations. At times I also struggle with enjoying things that I used to love doing and the two problems just exasperate each other. An example of my anxiety is that this past week I've felt a slight tingling in my extremities, particularly in my hands and arms. I haven't really though much on it but a couple days ago I looked up what this could be a symptom of, MS was listed and it just sent me down a spiral of getting extremely worried about the prospect of developing MS! It's probably ridiculous I know though I still might get it checked out as it persists. But some days I have really good days or hours at a time, but I do feel fragile mentally and sometimes exhausted by looking how far I still have to climb.

The program helps, without doubt. I don't know where I'd be without it mentally giving me a plan to set my eye on and physically my baseline continues to rise slowly and with the occasional jump up and slide down. I really have to work on my day to day thought patterns however. I'm so up and down that I it will probably hinder my progress at some point and could already be doing so, I mean my libido though better would probably be better still if I just didn't have that anxious feeling taking up most of my thoughts.

[Cdsnuts]

Update time.

A day after my last update myself and my siblings flew my mum out to NYC for her birthday. I took enough herbs to last me along with Vit D. Was a good time all in all but I'm dealing with bouts of anxiety, fatigue and emotional flatness which was extremely uncommon for me before. Walking round the city tired me out at times and when I would get back to the apartment I'd feel like I'd just want to sit in my room and be by myself, but by in large it was a good time. I did have a few on my last night there with a friend who I hadn't seen in ages. When I got back my hormones felt all over the place, my sleep quality whilst good in NY took a massive nosedive again and I was getting hotflashes, sweating a lot and my libido was pretty high. I was like a girl on her period basically. I think it was the combination of the long journey and the couple of drinks I had on the last night.

Anyway things seemed to have calmed down these past few days, I still get fatigue and brain fog but my libido baseline seems to be higher than most at this stage, meaning that I have't had shrunken or tingling genitals in well over a month and can mostly get hard by thinking on it- sometimes with manual stimulation, though throughout the day my day to day thoughts are rarely sexual.
I feel my biggest problems at the moment are mental. Over the course of my twenties I became a socially confident, quick witted and outgoing person. I generally feel dulled since this and this gives me bouts of anxiety and shutting my self in and avoiding most social situations. At times I also struggle with enjoying things that I used to love doing and the two problems just exasperate each other. An example of my anxiety is that this past week I've felt a slight tingling in my extremities, particularly in my hands and arms. I haven't really though much on it but a couple days ago I looked up what this could be a symptom of, MS was listed and it just sent me down a spiral of getting extremely worried about the prospect of developing MS! It's probably ridiculous I know though I still might get it checked out as it persists. But some days I have really good days or hours at a time, but I do feel fragile mentally and sometimes exhausted by looking how far I still have to climb.

The program helps, without doubt. I don't know where I'd be without it mentally giving me a plan to set my eye on and physically my baseline continues to rise slowly and with the occasional jump up and slide down. I really have to work on my day to day thought patterns however. I'm so up and down that I it will probably hinder my progress at some point and could already be doing so, I mean my libido though better would probably be better still if I just didn't have that anxious feeling taking up most of my thoughts.

All part of the territory, unfortunately.

Have you been keeping up on your breathing exericises?

[coppersocks]

All part of the territory, unfortunately.

Have you been keeping up on your breathing exericises?
You know what, I've been doing more pure meditation recently for my anxiety as although I see less immediate benefits from it I view meditation as the more "long term" solution. Maybe I should switch back to just breathing as it gave me the "shots" of immediate pure calmness that I'm probably in need of. I can feel the high cortisol in me currently and I think the breathing might be the best way to keep it under control. I'll up it to 3 times a day instead of one and make my sessions longer and report back.

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[Cdsnuts]

You know what, I've been doing more pure meditation recently for my anxiety as although I see less immediate benefits from it I view meditation as the more "long term" solution. Maybe I should switch back to just breathing as it gave me the "shots" of immediate pure calmness that I'm probably in need of. I can feel the high cortisol in me currently and I think the breathing might be the best way to keep it under control. I'll up it to 3 times a day instead of one and make my sessions longer and report back.

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I know what you're saying in regards to meditation, but the breathing sessions lead to BETTER meditation sessions over the long term, which is what you want. There is no limit to how long and how many times you do this breathing. The MORE the better.

I find no better way to get the mind into the space it needs to be for proper meditation. Also, in the beginning you can feel the resistance to doing to doing these breathing sessions. This resistance is a clear sign that you need to be doing MORE of them.

Make sure you dose your bacopa prior to doing the breathing and meditation. This herb is perfectly suited to aiding your sessions so that you get the most out of them.

Prior to doing any meditation, you should always do the breathing exercises.

[coppersocks]

So update. Feeling generally much better at this stage than I was, had a good week in college and at work with my mood definitely having improved with me being able to keep on top of my thoughts. This is in no doubt helped by doing the breathing twice a day every day followed by ten minutes of meditation. I downloaded the Headspace app for short guided meditations and I find them pretty excellent at helping me watch thoughts rather than becoming engrossed in them. I've been trying to get to the bottom of my brain fog issue for some time as mine seemed to exhibit itself slightly differently from what I'd seen other reporting. Though no doubt bought on by fatigue and stress often I'm able to pull my self out of it most of the time by really focussing mindfully on my surroundings and conversation with people. I found the terms "depersonalisation and "derealisation" online and these seem much more in line with what I generally experience and are often bought on by things like anxiety, stressful circumstances and unusual dopamine and adrenal responses like addictions. Since realising this I've just doubled down on remaining present and not letting myself get lost in thoughts or looking at my phone (which I do constantly, particularly since this started) and the effects have been pretty staggering and I've hardly suffered from it at all and my mood has lifted and I generally feel less overwhelmed or anxious. There was even a night where I woke up after an hour and a half sleep with my heart racing that was exactly like how I had woken up in the past, but instead of laying there worried about another nights sleep- I got up, had a banana as I had read on the RP forum that a drop in blood sugar as you sleep can cause cortisol spikes, and after ten minutes I was asleep for the rest of the night.

Over the past five or so day I've also been running a little experiment with pregnenlone at high dosage of 150mg but I feel I have to stop as I think it's tanking my E. Libido fell off again (no desire at all but no trouble maintaing erection once there) after two days and I've noticed a little bit of irritability, loss of morning wood, cracking joints and some lethargy creeping in so I think that dose my be just too high for me.

I've been on about 15 herbs for over a month now so I think it's time I list the ones I feel the most immediate effect for those who come here in future looking for advice;
For generaly sense of well being; Ashwaganda, Rhodiola and Muira Puama. Libido it has been Tongkat, Butea Superba, Horny Goat Weed and Pine pollen and for fatigue Eleuthero and Rhodoila. Five weeks isn't a long time so some of these may be just because I felt good that day so I'll update the list again in future.

Also I've ordered some Vitamin K and pandesterone (DHEA and Preg) from ideallabs and will probably use them topically at some stage in the future as suggested here https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/raising-serum-androgens-using-dhea-pregnenolone-and-vitamin-k.13505/.
Users seem to talk of great effects from them and though there is no magic bullet for PFS it looks promising.

[coppersocks]

It's been a good while since my last update.
Essentially I fucked up and stopped following the protocol to the key. In the past month I drank three times, smoked weed a fair bit and also used porn quite frequently to assure myself that I still had a libido. There's no good reasons for this other than I went through a rough patch mentally after a bad interaction with an ex, end of semester college work and pressure and with some new symptoms emerging, particularly more prominent veins on my genitals, legs and hands which kinda threw me and made me feel pretty down and also I've started getting much more eye floaters, constant visual static or "snow" and flashes in my vision every now and then. This is when I should have doubled down on the protocol and focused on it even more but instead I fell of the wagon somewhat.

For those wondering what these things do to your recovery I'll list the ways in which they have effected me.

Alchohol
As I said I got to the point where I could handle a drink or two but anything more than that was a different story. Essentially a hangover made me feel like OK initially, seemingly bringing back my libido and making it easier to achieve a proper erection. However by evening time it seems to give me bad anxiety and effects my sleep for a few days. I also seem to get spontaneous hot flashes and sweating. Essentially all signs of high E and I feel like what I imagine a period feels like.

Weed
I would seriously recommend avoiding it at all costs whilst following the protocol. The first night I tried it was fine, I actually felt like I slept really heavily. However by the third night of smoking it before bed it was effecting my badly. Cannabis increases cortisol and lowers GABA which is not something any of us need. My sleep became terrible, waking up every hour or so. The brain fog and fatigue that I had in the first couple of months of my crash came back and are still here somewhat, a week after stopping it.

Porn
If I'm to be fully honest here; I continued using porn. I used it when my libido would come back every week or so and I used it to reassure myself that I still had a libido when it would stay away for long periods than that. This seemed to be not that much of an issue, and it seemed like something I could get away with doing instead of following what the protocol said. I couldn't.
If you haven't read anything from the site suggested in CD's webpage called yourbrainonporn then go and read it now and read stories of guys suffering from various porn induced symptoms. You'll be surprised how many of them you already know; no libido, ED, anxiety, no nocturnal wood, brain fog, insomnia, need I go on?
My theory on this is that our dopamine response is in a very precarious state right now and anything that can illicit a response from it we gravitate towards. On top of that we need reassurance that we're still "working" down there so we (or me specifically) use porn to basically make ourselves feel better- which it does in the short term- at a time when its difficult to feel much pleasure. I was stupid I know, and I could feel my pleasure from watching it evaporate more during each session. I think that because of the delicate state of my brain that I basically hindered myself more by giving myself porn induced ED. I say that because when I think about it I was able to get an erection perfectly fine, just with porn. Also, my morning woods were almost at the point of being fine also. That is not physiological ED, that's psychological or at least neurological. So if anyone is reading this who is just thinking of starting the protocol and is unsure on this point, just don't. You don't want to be flooding your brain with the chemicals that watching porn can produce at a time when it essentially already has a chemical imbalance, it is much easier to mess yourself up in this way than it was before PFS so don't. I genuinely think that I'd be much further on libido wise had I had done this. I fucked up. As it stands I haven't looked at porn or masturbated in ten days and I pretty much have no libido at all. Plenty of people who quit porn after porn induced ED go through what they call a "flat line" and have the same thing, this can last from a couple months to much longer.

Obviously this is not the update I wanted to write, particularly after I feel like I was doing well on most fronts. However a couple of times I used my upswings as a sign that I could deviate somewhat, difficult events in my life as excuses to do the same and on top of that I continued using porn every now and then and that in itself has led to it's own issues. I'm still confident of recovery, but I'm pissed at myself too. At least I now know what kind of dedication it'll take instead of kidding myself that I knew.

[Swill]

Don't beat yourself up. Back on the horse and go again bro.

[coppersocks]

Update time. It's been over three months since I given an update here so this is long overdue.

Reading back on this thread it's obvious that in the months after crashing that my mind was a roller coaster various emotions and stresses. Some days were good, some bad, others terrible and during all that I was constantly desperate to be recovered. I see the same in other peoples threads too. It's such a long and arduous process that requires massive amounts of mental effort just to live a normal life that it leaves you in a state of almost constant stress. Stress of trying to appear fine to people, of trying to get your work done, of not knowing when or even if you will feel better, of not even knowing how you will feel the next day or if you'll even get a decent nights sleep that night. The stress is awful and whats worse is that it can hamper your recovery, even stall it completely if you let it. Well I didn't.

I'm not here to say that I am fully recovered because I'm not yet. That particular toast of whiskey is going to have to wait another couple of months but I know I will be writing in the recovery section soon. But I am here to say that I'm nearly there, PFS barely effects my day if I don't let it and I am living a fully fuctional, normal and enjoyable life. Much of the time I forget I have it! I won't go over my numerous problems bought on by PFS, they're listed in my previous posts but I will give a list of the minor lingering symptoms that persist and that I am soon to get over at the end of this post.

When I first came to this site I asked CD if I would be able to go on a trip to South America that I had already booked. He said that if I followed the protocol exactly that I would. If you've read my previous posts you'll know that I did not follow the protocol to the T. I took the herbs everyday but I didn't adhere to the nofap rule or even the no porn and there would be stretches of days where I wouldn't Wim Hof or even meditate. This was all to my detriment and I imagine that if I had I might well be posting in the recovery section as opposed to here. I timed my six week R-Andro run to end just before I left for SA. I took 400mg a day(2 pills in the morning and two in the evening). R-Andro works, I was getting horny and sensation came back down there, also my body odor drastically changed to a almost medicinal smell (that was weird). However during the last week of the cycle or so the benefits began to fade slightly. This caused me some anxiety as I thought I was looking at the possibilty of a shutdown just as I was readying to leave, this anxiety in turn caused some brainfog during my first few days there. I wasn't enjoying myself. I didn't take any supplements with me other that 5a-DHP for emergencies and that had me somewhat worried also but once I got into the swing of things I was fine. I think what did it was kissing a girl about five days in and feeling movement. After that I knew that it was just my mind holding me back. I honestly went on to have the time of my life, getting with multiple girls, meeting new people, climbing Machu Pichu and seeing other sights and cities. I now know that my body is robust enough to withstand drinking and drug use which I carelessly and stupdily took part in. Luckily it didn't have any major negative effects or cause any crashes. I didn't drink in the months leading up to going but about a month before I did some MDMA with a couple of friends one night and it really helped me realise how much anxiety I was holding onto and focusing on as opposed to letting my body get better. I can't recommend this to everyone as I everyone is at a different stage of their recovery but MDMA is proven to help people with PTSD and grief and a small enough dose in the right setting can do wonders for your mind. As I said before, I'm a mild case of PFS and I caught it early by getting here within the first couple of months of my crash so it is absoloubtly not for everyone but though it didn't cure all anxiety about my condition it definitely primed me for going to SA and put me in a much better place.

Now I'm back I feel ready and motivated for my going to college and as I have date lined up with a stunning girl this Thursday who was texting me the whole time I was away:p. Protocol wise I've hopped straight back on. I will give it another couple of months and then get back on the R-Andro for another 6 weeks at 400mg. I would say that my baseline raised about 15 percent on my last run so I imagine after my next run I will be in touching distance to say the least.

As far as symptoms go:

SLEEP
Pretty much fine, some nights I have a bad night but I was never a great sleeper before anyway. 7/10 (It has never been above that though)

FATIGUE
Pretty much gone, I don't get the terrible tiredness that I used to. All normal here. 9/10

BRAIN FOG
I had a couple of weird bouts early on my trip but they never lasted more than a day. 8/10

ANXIETY and MENTAL
I feel as good as I ever have really. Only when I dwell on minor issues do I feel negative about my life and this has alleviated much of my anxiety. If my blood sugar drops I can feel a bit anxious but it never really lasts. 8/10

ED and LIBIDO
I no longer have ED, at all. It may still take a couple of seconds longer than it used to but if I want it up -its going up! Libido is still not quite there. What I mean by that is that before PFS there used to be days where I just had to take care of myself. This still doesn't happen, well not as much but it definitely feels like its falling into place. Every time I think about this date coming up or back at some of the memories of traveling I can feel the dopamine hit, I get excited and I can feel how good it feels. It's getting there. 7/10

OTHER
I still have a lot of eye floaters and my eyes are still more sensitive to light than they were before. I actually see a lot of white sperm-like dots moving around in my vision if I look at a white sky and I get intense after images that last longer than usual if I look at a bright light. This is worse in the morning, particularly if I was drinking the night before. I'm sure that this has been bought on by the amount of stress I was under as cortisol can wreak havoc on the body and I think it will fix itself in time.

[Ridd]

thanks for the update coppersocks, been following your story for a while now (on ray peat aswell.) we crashed near the same time, good to see you starting to get out of this shitshow. best of luck in making a full recovery in the coming months, be sure to update us!

[coppersocks]

thanks for the update coppersocks, been following your story for a while now (on ray peat aswell.) we crashed near the same time, good to see you starting to get out of this shitshow. best of luck in making a full recovery in the coming months, be sure to update us!Cheers man, yeah I remember I was pretty panicked when going to that forum thinking that my veins we're gonna protude out of my whole body. My whole body seems to have calmed down now and other than my eyes everything seems to be pretty grand. I'll probably put an update on there soon but I want to get blood work done first to give them more data for the 5ar and the Brain thread they have going. Good luck man and let me know how you get on.

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[Cdsnuts]

Good for you brother. Keep up the great work my man.

[coppersocks]

Check the recovery section.:)