I'll be be back

[The battler]

Hey guys, so my story basically is:

I took fin for 4 1/2 years, right from my I was 19 and didnt notice very many side effects aside from very little ejaculation and a slight bit of short-term memory impairment. However, I kept taking it because my hair became beautiful lol.

However, last summer, i decided to play with Sarms. I tried LGD and cardarine and alongside the great increase in stamina and gym gains, my libido went through the roof and I wanted to hump anything and everything. However, as early as my first week on sarms, suddenly I experienced a lot of shedding. Fin had stopped my hairloss to 1 or 2 hair per day and had improved my hair quality dramatically.

However, now It was almost as if my hair became thin overnight and would fall off to a gentle pull.

I stopped the sarms for two days, and my hairloss stopped.
However once i started again, it came back.

The stupid person that I was, I attributed it to raised DHT and tried to supplement fin with even more DHT blockers. I added green tea extract, saw palmetto, high dose zince and biotin when actually what I was experiencing was telogen efluviam.
I took this for a few days before realizing that my energy and mental clarity was going for a toss.
It did nothing for my hair anyway so I discontinued the use.

I completed the LGD cycle and added in S4 and followed it up with pct of nolva and clomid for 2.5 weeks. Interestingly my hairloss stopped around that time and I felt ok.
However, around 3, weeks from then, that very aggressive hairloss came back.

Note: was on fin all the time during these times.

In the past I have even taken 2 tablets of fin and felt perfectly fine, but now it was really eating up on my mental energy and giving me bit of a limp dick.
I discontinued its use. Ironically i was still more concerned about my hair more than anything and decided to jump on dutasteride.

In the first week, i got a massive rush of libido and strong boners. However, into the second week, I literally crashed.
Started waking up after two hours into sleeping. Gained a ton of fat and had that old moon face that you get from high estrogen.

I stopped there and then and jumped on clomid and nolva for a month.
I went a bit too long and literally crashed my estrogen.

From there on in my journey to the docs started and all of them were clueless as a mofo.
All of them just asked me to rest and wait it out for 6 months or so to see what happens. I quickly realised that if I had to recover, it was not through their lame asses.

So right now my blood results are:

MY AGE IS 24 BY THE WAY.

1. ALP 67, AST 26, ALT 23, GGT 15, albumin 50, globulin 26, random glucose 5.
2. FSH 10.1, LH 10.1, Total testosterone 13.6,SHBG 25, testosterone to SHBG 54.4, prolactin 323.
3. Beta-HCG <1.
Blood Results 2016:
4. Free testosterone 0.350% (0.476 nmol/l) and the bioavailable testosterone 12.5 nmol/l (91.7%).

As you can see, my LH and FSH levels are way too high and show the symptoms of primary hypogonadism.

My present symptoms:
Loss of sexual function and libido
Testicular shrinkage
Very less ejaculatory volume
A weak short term memory.
And cortisol spikes from the intensive workouts.

I have been studying in the UK for my postgraduate and am in the final stages so did not have the complete time to start with CD's juicing protocol. However, i plan to start it in the next week as Easter break allows me time for that and I would hopefully go for over a month on it.

I have used the herbs without getting the rest of the protocol; diet/ workout and they have cleared my anxiety and depression a touch. However, i always knew that it was not going to work like this, so I will get everything set up straight after the cleanse.

Just a question guys: my LH levels are way too high given my grape like testicles. I have read that supplementing with cacium/ magnesium solves that.
However for that, you need adequate levels of vitamin D and according to a report in January, my vitamin D levels were as low as 4.
I started supplementing with solgar's supplements and that gave me a urinary tract infection (UTI) which I at first thought was a prostate issue.

So is it a case of my body not being able to metabolize the vitamin D due to poor gut health which I have always had on fin; constipation and bloat? However, i had solved the constipation through a herbal mixture that I took in the morning, yet I got the UTI.

You response to my post would be much appreciated:)

[Cdsnuts]

Hey guys, so my story basically is:

I took fin for 4 1/2 years, right from my I was 19 and didnt notice very many side effects aside from very little ejaculation and a slight bit of short-term memory impairment. However, I kept taking it because my hair became beautiful lol.

However, last summer, i decided to play with Sarms. I tried LGD and cardarine and alongside the great increase in stamina and gym gains, my libido went through the roof and I wanted to hump anything and everything. However, as early as my first week on sarms, suddenly I experienced a lot of shedding. Fin had stopped my hairloss to 1 or 2 hair per day and had improved my hair quality dramatically.

However, now It was almost as if my hair became thin overnight and would fall off to a gentle pull.

I stopped the sarms for two days, and my hairloss stopped.
However once i started again, it came back.

The stupid person that I was, I attributed it to raised DHT and tried to supplement fin with even more DHT blockers. I added green tea extract, saw palmetto, high dose zince and biotin when actually what I was experiencing was telogen efluviam.
I took this for a few days before realizing that my energy and mental clarity was going for a toss.
It did nothing for my hair anyway so I discontinued the use.

I completed the LGD cycle and added in S4 and followed it up with pct of nolva and clomid for 2.5 weeks. Interestingly my hairloss stopped around that time and I felt ok.
However, around 3, weeks from then, that very aggressive hairloss came back.

Note: was on fin all the time during these times.

In the past I have even taken 2 tablets of fin and felt perfectly fine, but now it was really eating up on my mental energy and giving me bit of a limp dick.
I discontinued its use. Ironically i was still more concerned about my hair more than anything and decided to jump on dutasteride.

In the first week, i got a massive rush of libido and strong boners. However, into the second week, I literally crashed.
Started waking up after two hours into sleeping. Gained a ton of fat and had that old moon face that you get from high estrogen.

I stopped there and then and jumped on clomid and nolva for a month.
I went a bit too long and literally crashed my estrogen.

From there on in my journey to the docs started and all of them were clueless as a mofo.
All of them just asked me to rest and wait it out for 6 months or so to see what happens. I quickly realised that if I had to recover, it was not through their lame asses.

So right now my blood results are:

MY AGE IS 24 BY THE WAY.

1. ALP 67, AST 26, ALT 23, GGT 15, albumin 50, globulin 26, random glucose 5.
2. FSH 10.1, LH 10.1, Total testosterone 13.6,SHBG 25, testosterone to SHBG 54.4, prolactin 323.
3. Beta-HCG <1.
Blood Results 2016:
4. Free testosterone 0.350% (0.476 nmol/l) and the bioavailable testosterone 12.5 nmol/l (91.7%).

As you can see, my LH and FSH levels are way too high and show the symptoms of primary hypogonadism.

My present symptoms:
Loss of sexual function and libido
Testicular shrinkage
Very less ejaculatory volume
A weak short term memory.
And cortisol spikes from the intensive workouts.

I have been studying in the UK for my postgraduate and am in the final stages so did not have the complete time to start with CD's juicing protocol. However, i plan to start it in the next week as Easter break allows me time for that and I would hopefully go for over a month on it.

I have used the herbs without getting the rest of the protocol; diet/ workout and they have cleared my anxiety and depression a touch. However, i always knew that it was not going to work like this, so I will get everything set up straight after the cleanse.

Just a question guys: my LH levels are way too high given my grape like testicles. I have read that supplementing with cacium/ magnesium solves that.
However for that, you need adequate levels of vitamin D and according to a report in January, my vitamin D levels were as low as 4.
I started supplementing with solgar's supplements and that gave me a urinary tract infection (UTI) which I at first thought was a prostate issue.

So is it a case of my body not being able to metabolize the vitamin D due to poor gut health which I have always had on fin; constipation and bloat? However, i had solved the constipation through a herbal mixture that I took in the morning, yet I got the UTI.

You response to my post would be much appreciated:)

I highly doubt a vitamin D supplement gave you a UTI. A UTI is an infection. Most likely it's coincidence it happened that way.

And what exactly is your question?

[The battler]

No CD, it happened to me twice.

On the first go, i rushed to the doc and even had my prostate examined lol. He then put me on antibiotics for 10 days. During that I time, I still kept on taking the D3 supplement. At the end of the antibiotic course, i saw no improvement.
However, because the D3 supplement was the only thing I had started out of my usual routine, it raised my suspicion.

Once I discontinued it, the symptoms went away in 4, 5 days.

Any doubts whether the vitamin D wasnt the culprit were cleared when I started taking it again, which caused the symptoms to resurface.

As far as the question is concerned, as you can see I have an abnormally high LH and FSH levels with very low free test for my age.

I have read that supplementing with calcium/magnesium is the way to go to address this. Now if my body is not responding to the supplementation of vitamin D, how is it going to absorb calcium which needs the vit d?

[Cdsnuts]

No CD, it happened to me twice.

On the first go, i rushed to the doc and even had my prostate examined lol. He then put me on antibiotics for 10 days. During that I time, I still kept on taking the D3 supplement. At the end of the antibiotic course, i saw no improvement.
However, because the D3 supplement was the only thing I had started out of my usual routine, it raised my suspicion.

Once I discontinued it, the symptoms went away in 4, 5 days.

Any doubts whether the vitamin D wasnt the culprit were cleared when I started taking it again, which caused the symptoms to resurface.

As far as the question is concerned, as you can see I have an abnormally high LH and FSH levels with very low free test for my age.

I have read that supplementing with calcium/magnesium is the way to go to address this. Now if my body is not responding to the supplementation of vitamin D, how is it going to absorb calcium which needs the vit d?

I'm still at a loss for how vitamin D can cause a bacterial infection? I've never heard that before, ever. Are you sure it was a UTI? And if the vitamin D was giving you a UTI, then who knows how other things are going to effect you.

In regards to your question, as I always say piece mealing these things isn't really the right way to go about it. You have to take a holistic approach to fix your WHOLE system, and then everything falls into place in the right order.

Maybe someone else can better answer your question if this is the route you want to take.

[The battler]

I'm still at a loss for how vitamin D can cause a bacterial infection? I've never heard that before, ever. Are you sure it was a UTI? And if the vitamin D was giving you a UTI, then who knows how other things are going to effect you.

In regards to your question, as I always say piece mealing these things isn't really the right way to go about it. You have to take a holistic approach to fix your WHOLE system, and then everything falls into place in the right order.

Maybe someone else can better answer your question if this is the route you want to take.

Hmm, I understand what you are saying and it indeed is correct. I only asked these questions since I am such a weird case with such high high LH levels and grape sized testicles.

I already have the the herbs on deck and will fly home in a week where I will start the juice feast for a month. Hopefully, that sets things on course.

Also brother, is the juice feast and avoiding gluten enough to set my gut straight because I seriously think that has a reason to do with my condition. For example I get no buzz from the pine ollen tincture like so many report.
I have bought a probiotic and will use it once i refeed after the feast. Anything else I should know?

[Cdsnuts]

Hmm, I understand what you are saying and it indeed is correct. I only asked these questions since I am such a weird case with such high high LH levels and grape sized testicles.

I already have the the herbs on deck and will fly home in a week where I will start the juice feast for a month. Hopefully, that sets things on course.

Also brother, is the juice feast and avoiding gluten enough to set my gut straight because I seriously think that has a reason to do with my condition. For example I get no buzz from the pine ollen tincture like so many report.
I have bought a probiotic and will use it once i refeed after the feast. Anything else I should know?

I mean you see how strange that sounds right? So I'm wondering then, would being out in the sun give you a UTI? Because vitamin D production is the outcome of that. Perhaps you got something that was contaminated? Vitamin D on it's own will not give someone a bacterial infection, unless the product you're using is infected as well. This would be the only possible way that could happen.

Like I tell everyone else, it doesn't make sense to start herb rotation until you have properly cleansed. You're not going to get the proper response from them until your system is running clean. It's almost like throwing them away, that's how important the cleanse is. You will certainly see what I mean once you undergo this most important part of the protocol.

And you're right in the assumption about your gut. But it's not just you, most guys have a troubled digestive system and it's part of the problem that needs to be fixed.

And yes, the juice feast alone will do so much good at setting your digestion straight, but the avoidance of gluten will as well. Gluten has a terrible effect of the gut....terrible.

Anything else you should know? I don't know what you already know or don't know, so specific questions are your best bet here. That being said, following the protocol to a T is what you should aim to do.

[Durantia37]

Don't just run out and buy a random probiotic and start using it man. Do as much research as possible. Read Chris Kresser's articles and interviews...as many as possible. Probiotics are a sensitive game, especially if you're aleady compromised.

Take it very very slow (1/4 what the bottle recommends for awhile, then 1/2, etc., watching how your body responds). The idea behind probiotic and prebiotic foods and supps is to introduce enough for minimal die-off reactions, back off, do a little more, back off, etc, then rotate to a different strain or food.

The amount of things you can do for your gut is incredibly vast, as is the amount of things you can do to screw it up worse. It's way way more complicated than that, but this advice alone would have saved me much grief.

[Durantia37]

CD's diet and the Paleo diet in general is basically a looser version of the GAPS and SCD diets. Look them up. If you're ever in a super shitty place, gut-wise, low FODMAP diet with proper food combining (look them up) can normally provide a respite. Also look at Chi's recovery diet in the recoveries sticky of this board. All safe diets for the seriously compromised. Nothing more stabilizing than juicing and water fasting though.

[Grape Ape]

Evomuse's Gut Health would be my suggested probiotic. Matt is a genius formulator.

I can't understand your blood work without the reference numbers. Not that I'm an expert to begin with.

CDN is correct when he says this is about fixing the whole system. My problem was abusing designer steroids in my late teens. My symptoms were not unlike those that are experienced from PFS. My body was compromised just as much and it took me years to figure out how to fix it, and the answer was a healthier lifestyle. The healthier I got, the better my condition got. Of course alot of this was time. Time is a variable we all must accept. But it is ultimately what we do durring this time that is most important. Funny enough, I was doing most of what CDN recommends before I ever saw his protocol. Picked up some great tips no doubt, but it is no coincidence that we both are doing so well.

Vit D isn't going to give you an infection. It's in your food and the sun. I'd switch brands to be on the safe side.

[Benq123]

CD's diet and the Paleo diet in general is basically a looser version of the GAPS and SCD diets. Look them up. If you're ever in a super shitty place, gut-wise, low FODMAP diet with proper food combining (look them up) can normally provide a respite. Also look at Chi's recovery diet in the recoveries sticky of this board. All safe diets for the seriously compromised. Nothing more stabilizing than juicing and water fasting though.

I'm currently doing a GAPS/SCD/Autoimmune Paleo type of diet (basically Chi's diet) and have recently been experimenting with Low FODMAP aswell. Is it true though that Low FODMAP isn't good long term as most of these are very healthy and beneficial to the gut in the form of prebiotics ?(garlic, onions, leeks etc)
Also, the best probiotic to my knowledge is home-made sauerkraut, way more effective than supplements from what I've read. And the best thing is you get different probiotic strains from every batch, so rotating isn't neccessary. Of course, always starting small is the best bet.
Natural antifungal/antibiotics can also help things along as most of us tend to have yeast or bacteria overgrowth I think. I'm currently looking into Canxida Remove.

EDIT: Whats your opinion on fats? especially saturated. The GAPS diet wants you to eat a lot of them, whereas some others say they are hard to digest and can cause inflammation of the gut lining.

[Durantia37]

Yes, low FODMAP isn't something you'd want to do permanently, it's more of a way to get a break from sympoms of GI distress. Of course, and CD will say this if he sees your question, water fasting and juicing are the fastest and most effective way to do the same thing.

I was just reading an article on these exact issues and questions, I'll find it and link it.

As far as fats go, you're ultimately going to need cholesterol for testosterone and every other hormone. They certainly shouldn't present any digestive issues for a healthy gut, which water fasting and juice feasting for long periods help create. I'm no expert, but I will say, if nothing else, be careful with coconut oil for awhile if you have serious dysbiosis. It's antifungal properties can cause die-off just like any other probiotic.

Unfortunately, the best and only thing you can ultimately do is slowly, carefully experiment with your own system, research every day, draw connections, and, #1 in importance, listen to your body/intuition. Let me find that article.

[Durantia37]

How to Restore Healthy Gut Flora Over the Long-Term (https://chriskresser.com/how-to-restore-healthy-gut-flora-over-the-long-term/)

[Benq123]

How to Restore Healthy Gut Flora Over the Long-Term (https://chriskresser.com/how-to-restore-healthy-gut-flora-over-the-long-term/)

Ah yes, I've read this I think, and lots of stuff from Chris.
Yeah I agree it's lots of trial and error, and starting very slowly, especially with prebiotics, prebiotics and antibiotics/antifungals.

Note: I completed a 17 day juice fast over a month ago.

[Durantia37]

I've also benefitted from taking two tablespoons of great lakes gelatin before bed. Good for sleep and the gut. Also, glutamine, obviously, at way higher doses than recommended and on an empty stomach. You might already know these things. Consider researching colostrum as well. Now Super Enzymes helped me tremendously. There's a scatter shot of random advice lol.

[Benq123]

I've also benefitted from taking two tablespoons of great lakes gelatin before bed. Good for sleep and the gut. Also, glutamine, obviously, at way higher doses than recommended and on an empty stomach. You might already know these things. Consider researching colostrum as well. Now Super Enzymes helped me tremendously. There's a scatter shot of random advice lol.

I take glutamine daily, nothing higher than the recommended dosage however, to keep the cost down, is it important to take on empty stomach?
I drink bone broth daily
which I guess is full of gelatin and my digestive enzymes arrive soon, I chose source naturals ultra.
I heard of colostrum, decided against it and got slippery elm instead, not sure why.

Not sure which natural antibiotics brand to use between Apex, Thorne, Pure encapulations, Innate Response and canxida. They all seem good. Any opinion?

Final thing, are you self treating your gut or seeing a nutritionist etc for tests? So you know if you have Sibo, candida or what.
Thanks man

[TubZy]

I've also benefitted from taking two tablespoons of great lakes gelatin before bed. Good for sleep and the gut. Also, glutamine, obviously, at way higher doses than recommended and on an empty stomach. You might already know these things. Consider researching colostrum as well. Now Super Enzymes helped me tremendously. There's a scatter shot of random advice lol.

Same, gelatin is the shit. Been taking for a while now.

[Durantia37]

It's optimal to take glutamine on an empty stomach, as it repairs gut lining. It's not just optimal but completely necessary to take much more than the recommended dose (for gut purposes). You should be doing about 10g/day. I think it recommends like...2g. Lol.

I'm self treating everything, and I've never gotten blood tests or anything. I'm really averse to doctors of any kind for some reason.

I can't vouch for any other enzymes, but Now Super Enzymes worked like magic and were maybe 20 bucks at the store.

I've never made bone broth, so can't comment, but two spoons of gelatin before bed knocks me out like instantly.

I haven't done any antibiotics or antifungals yet, other than oregano oil and coconut oil, both on accident. I've been herxing so much I need a break.

[Cdsnuts]

It's optimal to take glutamine on an empty stomach, as it repairs gut lining. It's not just optimal but completely necessary to take much more than the recommended dose (for gut purposes). You should be doing about 10g/day. I think it recommends like...2g. Lol.

I'm self treating everything, and I've never gotten blood tests or anything. I'm really averse to doctors of any kind for some reason.

I can't vouch for any other enzymes, but Now Super Enzymes worked like magic and were maybe 20 bucks at the store.

I've never made bone broth, so can't comment, but two spoons of gelatin before bed knocks me out like instantly.

I haven't done any antibiotics or antifungals yet, other than oregano oil and coconut oil, both on accident. I've been herxing so much I need a break.

Herxing.....lol.

I haven't heard that term used since my Lyme's disease days.

Ahhhh....the herx reaction....so much misery.

[Benq123]

Herxing.....lol.

I haven't heard that term used since my Lyme's disease days.

Ahhhh....the herx reaction....so much misery.

Must be difficult to differentiate from herx to a general pfs setback, right?

[Cdsnuts]

Must be difficult to differentiate from herx to a general pfs setback, right?
For me, no. I dealt with Lyme's disease way before I ever dealt with PFS

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[Snell1234]

For me, no. I dealt with Lyme's disease way before I ever dealt with PFS

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Lyme's and pfs? You must be able to get over anything! I can only imagine lyme's would have been pretty horrific too.

[Cdsnuts]

Lyme's and pfs? You must be able to get over anything! I can only imagine lyme's would have been pretty horrific too.

1 extended fast completely took care of the Lyme's disease. Bacterial infections respond fantastically well to water fasting. PFS was the more admirable Foe for sure.

And it's not just me that can get over anything....it's EVERYONE that can get over everything. I'm no different then any other person except for maybe a ridiculous amount of will power. But again, I attribute that to being a very stubborn individual. Tell me I can't do something, and I'm going to prove you wrong. ESPECIALLY doctors with their god complex's

And in regards to the lymes. I still have people to this day reaching out for me because through family and friends people have found out that I cured my lymes when they have been getting told by doctors that they will be dealing with it for the rest of their lives, which is of course, not true. Unfortunately when I tell people what I did to beat it, they straight out tell me that they would never be able to do it.

I just don't get people....they would rather suffer, miserably so at that, then not eat for 21 days and be done with it forever? Curious bunch they are, no doubt.

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[TubZy]

1 extended fast completely took care of the Lyme's disease. Bacterial infections respond fantastically well to water fasting. PFS was the more admirable Foe for sure.

And it's not just me that can get over anything....it's EVERYONE that can get over everything. I'm no different then any other person except for maybe a ridiculous amount of will power. But again, I attribute that to being a very stubborn individual. Tell me I can't do something, and I'm going to prove you wrong. ESPECIALLY doctors with their god complex's

And in regards to the lymes. I still have people to this day reaching out for me because through family and friends people have found out that I cured my lymes when they have been getting told by doctors that they will be dealing with it for the rest of their lives, which is of course, not true. Unfortunately when I tell people what I did to beat it, they straight out tell me that they would never be able to do it.

I just don't get people....they would rather suffer, miserably so at that, then not eat for 21 days and be done with it forever? Curious bunch they are, no doubt.

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That is crazy man, supposedly I have/had lymes too along with mono. When I came off fin after a few months I went to the my general doc and he tested me for everything and I tested positive for lyme and/or mono (since they are the same antibodies). I never got bit by a tick or anything so I was like WTF, given how common lyme is in NJ I was like oh shit.

This was like back 2 years ago, they put me on antibiotics for 4 months as a precaution, didn't do shit.

Funny thing is that, I found MANY people PFS people who tested positive for lyme and other immune/infection/autoimmune issues When I did more research on it, the reason why so many of us have infection/viral issues is because propecia suppresses the fuck out the immune system (allowing viruses to become reactivated) due to the constant raise in cortisol, increase in estrogen, along with putting the body in a hypothyroid like state (low body temp allows bacteria to grow like candida, parasites etc). Allopreg also activates the bile acid in the stomach which without proper bile flow can also be an issue for infections.

Not sure if you are aware, but all the herbs that are part of your protocol are anti-lyme and also immune supportive in general too. So that is what I tell everyone, even if you are not sure what you even 100% sure of treating just jump on the herbs, it addresses both the hormone part and the infection part.

The androgens (like DHT, T, androsterone/R andro etc.) are actually immune modulatory against pathogens due to the deactivation in cortisol- pretty intersting. I wrote about this in an article not too long ago.

[Durantia37]

It was becoming clear to me, even before reading your post, tubz, how essential boosting your immune system is for PFS. I think that, along with everything else (obviously), a daily or twice daily sauna-followed-by-cold-shower treatment with a quality vitamin c. supplement is essential. For me, the sauna shower combo has a bigger impact than any single thing I've tried. More than herbs, more than everything.

[TubZy]

It was becoming clear to me, even before reading your post, tubz, how essential boosting your immune system is for PFS. I think that, along with everything else (obviously), a daily or twice daily sauna-followed-by-cold-shower treatment with a quality vitamin c. supplement is essential. For me, the sauna shower combo has a bigger impact than any single thing I've tried. More than herbs, more than everything.

Yep, it amazed me at first how so many ppl had immune/infection issues from a hormonal drug, didn't make sense at first until I actually had the immune issues too. When I looked into it more and more it makes sense now unfortunately.

[Master Mal]

Yep, it amazed me at first how so many ppl had immune/infection issues from a hormonal drug, didn't make sense at first until I actually had the immune issues too. When I looked into it more and more it makes sense now unfortunately.

Year before I got off Fin I was stick 4-5 times. I thought it was stress. Boy was I wrong...