Caffeine increases progesterone, pregnenolone, T, DHT, allopreg, 5AR in brain

[TubZy]

Hi,

I would like to share a pretty cool study with you regarding caffeine, 5AR, DHT, T, allopreg, progesterone and pregnenolone all in the brain.

Caffeine-induced increases in the brain and plasma concentrations of neuroactive steroids in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837842)


From the full study:

"...The injection of caffeine (25 to 100 mg/kg IP) resulted in dose-dependent increases in the cerebral cortical concentrations of pregnenolone, progesterone, and allopregnanolone that were apparent after 30 min (Fig. 1). The effects of caffeine on the cortical concentrations of these three steroids were already significant (72, 90, and 47%, respectively) at the dose of 25 mg/kg, with the greatest observed effects (188, 388, and 71%, respectively) apparent at the dose of 100 mg/kg."

So, at the highest dose, which translates to about 1,200mg of caffeine for a human (single/bolus dose), levels of pregnenolone almost tripled, levels of progesterone almost quadrupled, and allopregnanolone almost doubled.

Original thread: https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/caffeine-increases-pregnenolone-progesterone-in-the-brain.3583/

The dose is big but you can work your way up higher or even to lower and use things like GABA agonists like niacinamide and herbs or even aspirin to counteract any of the stress response from the caffeine along with being properly fueled. I originally came across this because I was using topical caffeine on my head and face for hair and skin benefits but I also felt much better after applying it even mentally.

[Cdsnuts]

I didn't even know there was such a thing as topical caffeine

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[TubZy]

I didn't even know there was such a thing as topical caffeine

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There isn't. I make my own with niacinamide and aspirin in a water and alcohol solution (or a product called solban, but I make mine much more potent). Makes my skin and hair very nice.

Differential effects of caffeine on hair shaft elongation, matrix and outer root sheath keratinocyte proliferation, and transforming growth factormediated regulation of the hair cycle in male and female human hair follicles in vitro - Fischer - 2014 - British Journal of Dermatology - Wiley Online Library (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjd.13114/abstract)
Caffeine In Coffee Can Cure Baldness, Research Suggested : News : Parent Herald (http://www.parentherald.com/articles/41386/20160505/substance-in-coffee-cures-baldness-research-suggested-caffeine-for-treatment.htm)
Caffeine's mechanisms of action and its cosmetic use. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23075568)
Skin photoprotection and consumption of coffee and polyphenols in healthy middle-aged Japanese females. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25041334)
Regular coffee drinking may block the worst skin cancer, a study shows - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/regular-coffee-drinking-may-block-the-worst-skin-cancer-a-study-shows/2015/01/27/b80e4454-a24f-11e4-b146-577832eafcb4_story.html?utm_term=.526c0a9aadf5)
The effect of topically applied aspirin on localized circumscribed neurodermatitis. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11712038)
Topical treatment of cutaneous herpes simplex virus-1 infection in mice with a specially formulated caffeine gel (Cafon). - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8740461)
Effect of caffeine and testosterone on the proliferation of human hair follicles in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214716)
Histopathological evaluation of caffeine-loaded solid lipid nanoparticles in efficient treatment of cellulite. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25382163)
Role of Caffeine in the Management of Androgenetic Alopecia (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500065/)
Pharmacokinetics for topically applied caffeine in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24704471)
Effectiveness of topical caffeine in cataract prevention: studies with galactose cataract. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21179241)
Evaluation of the efficacy of topical caffeine in the treatment of psoriasis vulgaris. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16249145)
Caffeine inhibits paresthesia induced by herpes simplex virus through action on primary sensory neurons in rats. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9809669)

A pilot study evaluating the efficacy of topically applied niacin derivatives for treatment of female pattern alopecia. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17168873)
A Double-blind, Placebo-controlled Study Evaluating the Efficacy of an Oral Supplement in Women with Self-perceived Thinning Hair (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509882/)
Niacinamide: A B vitamin that improves aging facial skin appearance. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16029679)
Nicotinic acid/niacinamide and the skin. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17147561)
http://dermatologytimes.modernmedicine.com/dermatology-times/news/anti-aging-effects-niacin-amide
Nicotinamide-containing sunscreens for use in Australasian countries and cancer-provoking conditions. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12615518)
Topical nicotinamide modulates cellular energy metabolism and provides broad-spectrum protection against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppre... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19804594)
Ultraviolet A radiation: its role in immunosuppression and carcinogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22123419)
Nicotinamide enhances repair of ultraviolet radiation-induced DNA damage in primary melanocytes. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24798949)
Nicotinamide reduces photodynamic therapy-induced immunosuppression in humans. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709272)
Nicotinamide enhances repair of ultraviolet radiation-induced DNA damage in human keratinocytes and ex vivo skin. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23349012)
Nicotinamide downregulates gene expression of interleukin-6, interleukin-10, monocyte chemoattractant protein-1, and tumour necrosis factor-α gene ... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397947)
Oral and systemic photoprotection. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24313740)
Photoprotective effects of nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20354654)
Nicotinamide prevents ultraviolet radiation-induced cellular energy loss. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20492562)
Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19028705)
UV radiation-induced immunosuppression is greater in men and prevented by topical nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17882270)
[The intervention of nicotinamide on skin melanocyte's cell proliferation after UVA (365 nm) exposed.]. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15748504)
Prevention of photoimmunosuppression and photocarcinogenesis by topical nicotinamide. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9427980)
Effects of nicotinamide on mouse skin tumor development and its mode of action. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10674181)
Nicotinamide and nicotinamide analogues as antitumor promoters in mouse skin. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2138506)


Aspirin for the primary prevention of skin cancer: A meta-analysis. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25663859)
Aspirin Linked to Lower Risk of Deadly Skin Cancer - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/aspirin-linked-lower-risk-deadly-skin-cancer/story?id=18704991)
Prostaglandin D2 Inhibits Hair Growth and Is Elevated in Bald Scalp of Men with Androgenetic Alopecia (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/)
Combined patch containing salicylic acid and nicotinamide: role of drug interaction. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20950260)
Design of a transdermal delivery system for aspirin as an antithrombotic drug. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16949225)
Transdermal modification of platelet function. A dermal aspirin preparation selectively inhibits platelet cyclooxygenase and preserves prostacyclin... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8339418)
Topically applied aspirin decreases histamine-induced wheal and flare reactions in normal and SLS-inflamed skin, but does not decrease itch. A rand... - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12013195)
Topically applied aspirin rapidly decreases histamine-induced itch. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9059677)

[Cdsnuts]

Lol... I believe you man. You don't have to post studies for EVERYTHING

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[TubZy]

Lol... I believe you man. You don't have to post studies for EVERYTHING

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I want you to learn and not take my word for it :)

[Cdsnuts]

I want you to learn and not take my word for it :)

Why thank you.....that's nice of you....lol.

But I learn simply by listening to the things people say. If it doesn't make sense to me, then I will go and seek out research material. But for every single thing, it's not necessary.

I know you're a smart dude. So when you post something, I learn just by reading the post, depending upon what it is and if it's not something that I already know.

If we were to get into some type of debate, then I could see where it may be helpful, but for every day run of the mill convo, there is no need my friend. Most of the time I don't need back up references.

I'm a quick study. If I hear something that makes sense to me, intuitively I know that it's true, or correct, or I can see how it would work in my head.

[DrivenToRecover]

Do you tend to take caffeine pills or drink coffee to get so much caffeine?


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[Maxout777]

This comes as no surprise to me. I always feel my best after taking down my coffee and this was always the case during my whole recovery. I DO NOT miss my coffee, EVER.

[DrivenToRecover]

This comes as no surprise to me. I always feel my best after taking down my coffee and this was always the case during my whole recovery. I DO NOT miss my coffee, EVER.

Same. Even though it doesn't feel great on my gut


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[Maxout777]

Same. Even though it doesn't feel great on my gut


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Yeah I normally hit the shitter after my morning coffee, but hey, it's a great feeling. I've noticed that if I take my coffee right after taking hormones on cycle, it's almost a euphoric feeling, very similar to dosing coffee with herbs.

[Cdsnuts]

Hormones + caffeine = great pre-workout

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[DrivenToRecover]

Hormones + caffeine = great pre-workout

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Really? I didn't realize the prohormones had any kind of immediate effect


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[Cdsnuts]

Really? I didn't realize the prohormones had any kind of immediate effect


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Absolutely. I can always feel them within a half an hour to 45 minutes after dosing.

You can't?

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[TubZy]

Do you tend to take caffeine pills or drink coffee to get so much caffeine?


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caffeine pills from nutrabio, I would suggest using it with niacinamide or a herb

[DrivenToRecover]

I can always feel them within a half an hour to 45 minutes after dosing

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Interesting. I don't feel noticeable boosts, just a cumulative increase as the cycle progresses.

I have been reading recently about the long term benefits of people that take testosterone.

As I understand, superhuman levels of testosterone seem to change the body in positive ways that you actually retain, even long after you've gone off cycle and your natural production is normalized.

Do these prohormones have a similar effect?


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[DrivenToRecover]

caffeine pills from nutrabio, I would suggest using it with niacinamide or a herb

I'm a huge fan of the caffeine & theanine stack, but I will try niacinamide as well


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[Cdsnuts]

Interesting. I don't feel noticeable boosts, just a cumulative increase as the cycle progresses.

I have been reading recently about the long term benefits of people that take testosterone.

As I understand, superhuman levels of testosterone seem to change the body in positive ways that you actually retain, even long after you've gone off cycle and your natural production is normalized.

Do these prohormones have a similar effect?


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In my experience and in my opinion, yes they do. That's why they work so well to increase your Baseline during your recovery. Each time you cycle you retain some benefits from that cycle.

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[Cdsnuts]

I'm a huge fan of the caffeine & theanine stack, but I will try niacinamide as well


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One of my favorite hands down

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[TubZy]

I'm a huge fan of the caffeine & theanine stack, but I will try niacinamide as well


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Yeah, theanine works well actually. I prefer niacinamide, I like it better, but theanine works well too, increases GABA, lowers serotonin, cortisol etc.

[DrivenToRecover]

One of my favorite hands down

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I've taken every day for a month at this point & can't thank you enough.

Any other nootropics/ stacks you recommend?

15 years straight having taken adderall I'm definitely used to being in the zone...anything natural that gets me there is very nice


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[DrivenToRecover]

Yeah, theanine works well actually. I prefer niacinamide, I like it better, but theanine works well too, increases GABA, lowers serotonin, cortisol etc.

Still very hard to wrap my head around the fact that serotonin is a bad thing...

Especially having taken ectasy before...it sure didn't feel bad lol


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[TubZy]

Still very hard to wrap my head around the fact that serotonin is a bad thing...

Especially having taken ectasy before...it sure didn't feel bad lol


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I would highly suggest reading thru this thread https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/how-does-mdma-make-one-high-through-serotonin.5808/

MDMA acts more on many other things. I also took it before so I know how it feels lol.

[Cdsnuts]

I've taken every day for a month at this point & can't thank you enough.

Any other nootropics/ stacks you recommend?

15 years straight having taken adderall I'm definitely used to being in the zone...anything natural that gets me there is very nice


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I'm surprised you're still getting benefits from it taking it that much? For me the benefit starts to fade after about 2 weeks straight so I have to cycle off of it for a week or so and then go back on

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[DrivenToRecover]

I would highly suggest reading thru this thread https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/how-does-mdma-make-one-high-through-serotonin.5808/

MDMA acts more on many other things. I also took it before so I know how it feels lol.

I love this haha.

I'm the guy in my circle of friends thats always finding links of things like this & sending them to friends/family hoping that they will read & find them as interesting as I do.

Your like me on steroids lol.

I will absolutely read that. Thank you.

I get the sense that you like to research, bookmark, and share things you find very similarly to how I do lol...especially when I was still taking adderall...are you a big redditor as well?

The amount of things I have saved on my computer from reddit & other places at this point is insane.


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[DrivenToRecover]

I'm surprised you're still getting benefits from it taking it that much? For me the benefit starts to fade after about 2 weeks straight so I have to cycle off of it for a week or so and then go back on

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I have noticed the effects lessen over time...Cycling definitely makes sense.

Do you cycle your coffee as well?
Keep gradually upping the dose?


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[Cdsnuts]

I have noticed the effects lessen over time...Cycling definitely makes sense.

Do you cycle your coffee as well?
Keep gradually upping the dose?


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Nope, just the theanine

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[TubZy]

I love this haha.

I'm the guy in my circle of friends thats always finding links of things like this & sending them to friends/family hoping that they will read & find them as interesting as I do.

Your like me on steroids lol.

I will absolutely read that. Thank you.

I get the sense that you like to research, bookmark, and share things you find very similarly to how I do lol...especially when I was still taking adderall...are you a big redditor as well?

The amount of things I have saved on my computer from reddit & other places at this point is insane.


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Yeah, bro haha. That is exactly me. All my friends/family will come to me for shit about info on steroids, computers/tech stuff, drug info, biochem, video games, supplements... really anything, this was even prior to all this PFS bullshit too, the PFS shit just made be obsessive with it. I just was always interested in "how and why" things happen, not just in biochem, but tech industry, weight lifting etc. And honestly who knows it probably a disorder/genetic but every new area I learned about I always have a tendency to have to be the best at it in a competitive way (not intentionally either) which can be good or bad in way lol.

My main area of focus is actually in tech industry..biochem is just a side project really, the tech stuff is what I have a degree/job in etc.

I have done a lot of stupid shit before (in terms of drugs), but I always had a some research on why I did it and had links/studies on the safety/history behind it etc. I always liked to learn about things no matter what topic.

I research all the time and I research everything, if you google my name you will see me as an active user on all different kinds of forums (all kinds of topics) that go way back years as I was always in interested in many different topics. Surprisingly, I never really got into Reddit, I did browse a lot but never as an active poster really, same concept though.

In person, I am the exact opposite of what you would expect (from the outside) which is what I get a lot from ppl lol....

[Durantia37]

Do you recommend theanine for crazy extreme cortisol swings? And can you do it on the same day as adaptogens without complication?

[Cdsnuts]

Do you recommend theanine for crazy extreme cortisol swings? And can you do it on the same day as adaptogens without complication?
You can. It doesn't interfere at all

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[Cdsnuts]

It's funny you guys are talking about this because I'm the same person in my family and circle of friends. I have people coming to me rather than going to the damn doctor, lol.

On the same token they also know what I've been through and I also know my feelings on doctors when it comes to preventive medicine which is basically bullshit.

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[TubZy]

It's funny you guys are talking about this because I'm the same person in my family and circle of friends. I have people coming to me rather than going to the damn doctor, lol.

On the same token they also know what I've been through and I also know my feelings on doctors when it comes to preventive medicine which is basically bullshit.

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Yeah, same haha. Also, I have friends from all levels that come to me as well. From people struggling with a drug addiction or friends that are lawyers, successful businessman, even doctors etc. that ask me about stuff too mainly cause they know I'm laid back and will talk about anything but willing to give solid advice on stuff.

I guess everyone has that friend that is kind of nutty (in their mind anything against mainstream medicine is "nutty/crazy" haha) but smart at the same time.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah, same haha. Also, I have friends from all levels that come to me as well. From people struggling with a drug addiction or friends that are lawyers, successful businessman, even doctors etc. that ask me about stuff too mainly cause they know I'm laid back and will talk about anything but willing to give solid advice on stuff.

I guess everyone has that friend that is kind of nutty but smart at the same time.
The worst is when family or friends will ask you a question and then you really have to be sure that they want an answer because sometimes I'll start talking and they don't realize what an earful they're actually going to get.

They just don't understand a lot of the questions they asked aren't just a simple one minute answer

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[TubZy]

The worst is when family or friends will ask you a question and then you really have to be sure that they want an answer because sometimes I'll start talking and they don't realize what an earful they're actually going to get.

They just don't understand a lot of the questions they asked aren't just a simple one minute answer

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Yup! I have to think in my head like how should I word this in the simplest way possible, but at the same time make it convincing enough lol. They all want a simple one step quick solution, most of them don't even care about the science behind it.

[TubZy]

So this is my third day on 600mg of caffeine with a gram of niacinamide in one sitting. I took elethuero about an hour ago with the caffeine. Holy crap the higher dose of caffeine definitely potentiated it way more than the 200mg dose, never felt it the eleth this strong before, I feel pretty good right now.

[DrivenToRecover]

Does the niacinamide neutralize out all of the jitters from that much caffeine?


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[Atticas]

I'm a little terrified of taking more than 200mg of caffeine myself due to feeling like I totally burned out my adrenals at one point in my life from using WAYYYY too much pwo way too often

How would you suggest going about this without burning out? As well as getting good sleep?

[Maxout777]

I'm a little terrified of taking more than 200mg of caffeine myself due to feeling like I totally burned out my adrenals at one point in my life from using WAYYYY too much pwo way too often

How would you suggest going about this without burning out? As well as getting good sleep?
Take in the morning and ease up your dose. Judge your response as you go up and then decrease your dose if you feel off.

I dose twice, once am and once pm. Coffee with a low dose caffeine pill. No sleep issues whatsoever nor any burnout issues.

[TubZy]

Does the niacinamide neutralize out all of the jitters from that much caffeine?


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Yes, but you need to make sure you are taking in enough sugar and protein. Sugar/carbs is what caffeine uses for fuel (glycogen stores). The aspirin will help as well if you wanted to take a small dose of it with the caffeine.

[jacknap]

Take in the morning and ease up your dose. Judge your response as you go up and then decrease your dose if you feel off.

I dose twice, once am and once pm. Coffee with a low dose caffeine pill. No sleep issues whatsoever nor any burnout issues.

yes I started using 200mg caffeine again (in coffee) again and it helps. I do one day of the week where I have two coffees and that gives me a very nice boost as well. I consider it part of my 'herb' rotation haha ;)

[Atticas]

I might start doing 200mg a day again for a while.

MaxxOutt, I tried the 400mg for a while man, but it started f*cking me up again real bad by giving me shaky hands and tiredness later on through the day.

Also, I'm not great with taking caffeine at night as I WILL NOT go to sleep if I do.... but maybe I could try taking one soon after I wake up and one a few hours later? It's a thought.

But idk. Maybe my adrenals are just still too weak at this point

[K8668B]

The caffeine, coffee, etc, has to be dosed right. like cdsnuts said before, "i have a sweet spot with the caffeine". you can drink too much and send your adrenals in overdrive, and cause anxiety and other negative things. Same here. I wont drink any past noon ish. Coffee helps me tremendously. Improves mood drastically, and slightly improves libido as well.