Road to recovery

[27&Scared]

Hi All -

Long time lurker, but figured I'd make my first post over here as PH seems to have run its course and is too doom and gloom for me. Long story short, I have been experiencing symptoms since September of last year, not realizing what was going on until about March of this year. Biggest issues I seem to be having are related to loss of appetite, digestive issues (constipation and small bowel movements / gurgling stomach), facial tingling, and muscle loss / spasms.

I am a week into my juicing, which is actually the second time I am doing it - first time I had to stop due to traveling to a client meeting for several days. Also, want to go ahead and apologize to CD, as I was a bit of a pest through some emails on trying to get the juicing started. So week into juicing, have several herbs ordered and will be cycling from those beginning in two weeks.

One quick question I had for anyone, relates to the lack of hunger and facial tingling I have experienced over the last 6 months and if i should expect this to get any better as a result of the protocol? Looking forward to learning from all of y'all, as I believe this board is a lot better and more motivating than PH and even solvePFS, although there is a lot of good information on there.

[Snell1234]

Stay here, there's no need to visit those places.

This might sound pedantic, but you should change your screen name. It's time to focus on the positives, not symptoms or any feelings of doom. That's part of the recovery process.

Also, read the stickies before you get started too. They document what a recovery is - everything. When you recover, every symptom goes.

Once you have finished the juice feast, the very hard part of the protocol is out of the way. It is then time to build up your body which the herbs will do and then potentially the prohormones if you decide to go down that route. Pine pollen powder and pine pollen tincture seem to be the most important herbs for me. I take the powder every day (3 big tablespoons) and the tincture quite liberally too now.

[27&Scared]

Thanks Snell! I'll hunt down how to change the user name, it's a great idea. The juicing has been quite hard, but I honestly feel like my stomach is starting to turn back on.

Based on the list from totalmaleoptimization and lostempire, I have bought the following herbs and will be rotating:

Cordyceps
Eleuthero
Goji Berry
He-Shou-Wu
Maca
Maral Root
Mucuna Puriens
Tongkat Ali

and taking the following on a daily basis:

Bacopa
Pine Pollen
Schisandra
Shilijat

Still undecided on the prohomorones and was thinking about giving the herbs 8 weeks before reassessing any further decisions, such as adding more herbs into the rotation or a prohormone cycle. Ready to get on the diet and workout regiment too, these last 8 months have sucked and I'm ready to get life back on track and kick this things ass.

[Snell1234]

That is a good start. Have you got the pine pollen powder or tincture, or both? I took the powder for about 2 months before taking the tincture. I noticed some new benefits from adding the tincture in.

[27&Scared]

I've got just the powder, do you think the tincture is better?

[Swill]

FWIW I use the schisandra berry and the Pine Pollen Tincture on rotation. I take the pine pollen powder daily.

[Snell1234]

Re which is better, I find them both to be different. I think the powder is probably better but there is definitely something going on hormonally with the tincture. I recommend both. They seem to work differently for me despite being the same product essentially. I guess the hormones directly into the blood does do something.

[Swill]

Re which is better, I find them both to be different. I think the powder is probably better but there is definitely something going on hormonally with the tincture. I recommend both. They seem to work differently for me despite being the same product essentially. I guess the hormones directly into the blood does do something.

With the powder, you dont get much/any of the hormones directly as they are broken down in your gut, but you get the hundreds of positive vitamins/aminos etc that make you run naturally at a more optimum level and you get the secondary hormonal benefits as a result of how nutrient dense it is and the many great things it does.

With the tincture you actually get the hormone directly as it is absorbed under your tongue into the bloodstream so skips the gut that breaks it down, but as a result of the tincture process you lose some of the benefits that you get from the powder.

Thats why I take the powder daily, then drop in the tincture on rotation.

[27&Scared]

Thanks for the insight, I'll probably go ahead and order tincture then.

[27&Scared]

Just got some blood work results from last week and had some disappointing results, with Free T dropping quite a bit compared to three months ago. Actually, total T also dropped. I am ready for this feast to be over and get started on my recovery! Also went ahead and ordered the Pine Pollen Tincture from Lost Empire Herbs.

[Meegs]

Not that you asked, but thought I would add.

Everyone is obviously different and will have different opinions based on their experiences as to what herbs they prefer. I'm taking around 20 now, including the ones that you mentioned, but my personal favorite is the Black Ant extract. It's hard to explain, but I can feel the effects of this every time I consume it. I know there is another thread where members talk about their favorites, but seemed relevant to this discussion. So next time you add to your herb arsenal, in my opinion, this is one to look at.

Have a happy recovery brother.

[27&Scared]

Thanks man! I'll look into this one as well.

[Swill]

Just got some blood work results from last week and had some disappointing results, with Free T dropping quite a bit compared to three months ago. Actually, total T also dropped. I am ready for this feast to be over and get started on my recovery! Also went ahead and ordered the Pine Pollen Tincture from Lost Empire Herbs.

Easy to say and I'm not trying to preach, but id stay away from the mindset of 'disappointing lab results' or even 'positive lab results.' There are people with PFS heavily affected with near perfect numbers. You're hear because you have trouble sexually, or you have physical symptoms or mind issues, not because a lab report says you do, after all.

I spent the first year of this ordeal before I came across this method of healing obsessing over my next set of labs, trying to make sense of the senseless. You could feel better but then a bad set of labs can have you doubting or questioning things, when in truth it is not a real indicator

I would strongly recommend you step away from the tests and lab results and just focus on going by how you 'feel'... that is certainly the best way to gauge any progress and prevent any potential mindfuck from a piece of paper telling you, often incorrectly, how you should feel.

I have a friend (admittedly non PFS) who doesn't take care of himself, is way out of shape and doesn't exercise and hammers the booze and narcotics... and he's a walking fucking erection... libido sky high and constantly getting into trouble for it. Looking at him, his hormone levels on paper would definitely be far from optimal. That goes to show that it is only a part of the puzzle, and in our case with the unknown quantity of PFS an even smaller than usual piece.

[jimmyjonas]

Easy to say and I'm not trying to preach, but id stay away from the mindset of 'disappointing lab results' or even 'positive lab results.' There are people with PFS heavily affected with near perfect numbers. You're hear because you have trouble sexually, or you have physical symptoms or mind issues, not because a lab report says you do, after all.

I spent the first year of this ordeal before I came across this method of healing obsessing over my next set of labs, trying to make sense of the senseless. You could feel better but then a bad set of labs can have you doubting or questioning things, when in truth it is not a real indicator

I would strongly recommend you step away from the tests and lab results and just focus on going by how you 'feel'... that is certainly the best way to gauge any progress and prevent any potential mindfuck from a piece of paper telling you, often incorrectly, how you should feel.

I have a friend (admittedly non PFS) who doesn't take care of himself, is way out of shape and doesn't exercise and hammers the booze and narcotics... and he's a walking fucking erection... libido sky high and constantly getting into trouble for it. Looking at him, his hormone levels on paper would definitely be far from optimal. That goes to show that it is only a part of the puzzle, and in our case with the unknown quantity of PFS an even smaller than usual piece.

This right here, spot on, forget the numbers, so many guys on the other forums are locked in the loop of understanding the numbers, forget that shit, you will know it when you feel right, keep on going man.

[27&Scared]

Thanks for the advice guys! I agree, I'm done with the labs. Ready to get this fast over with and move onto the diet phase, would really wish my appetite would come back - thing has been gone for nearly 6 months but I think it's slowly turning on due to the fasting.

[27&Scared]

Finished up the two week cleanse and am now on the paleo diet and also taking it a step further and including the FODMAP diet. Feeling good. One recent development is that I went to a holistic doctor yesterday and it was determined that I have some sort of fungal infection and he did all these different tests and concluded that some olive leaf herbs should help combat this. Added this herb to my arsenal and taking on a daily basis, in addition to 12 herbs from CDs website. Will keep everyone posted.

[Snell1234]

Make sure you carb backload as well so that you get enough carbs. Carbs are still important.

[Benq123]

Finished up the two week cleanse and am now on the paleo diet and also taking it a step further and including the FODMAP diet. Feeling good. One recent development is that I went to a holistic doctor yesterday and it was determined that I have some sort of fungal infection and he did all these different tests and concluded that some olive leaf herbs should help combat this. Added this herb to my arsenal and taking on a daily basis, in addition to 12 herbs from CDs website. Will keep everyone posted.

Do high FODMAPs give you discomfort or you just testing them out at the moment?

[Master Mal]

Finished up the two week cleanse and am now on the paleo diet and also taking it a step further and including the FODMAP diet. Feeling good. One recent development is that I went to a holistic doctor yesterday and it was determined that I have some sort of fungal infection and he did all these different tests and concluded that some olive leaf herbs should help combat this. Added this herb to my arsenal and taking on a daily basis, in addition to 12 herbs from CDs website. Will keep everyone posted.

27, where do you have that infection? Because I have this rash on my armpits and I'm starting to wonder if I've got a little something.

[27&Scared]

Do high FODMAPs give you discomfort or you just testing them out at the moment?

High FODMAPS give me discomfort, I really noticed it with my juicing cleanse. There were several fruits and veggies that were causing my stomach severe angst, talking unruly gurgling and dumping issues. After reporting this to my nutritionist, we began to work on a solution and ran through the FODMAP diet protocol and after looking at what was high FODMAP - I realized that my diet needed to be even stricter. For example, Apples were a huge no-no, they caused me severe bloating and stomach issues for a couple hours after each drink.

[27&Scared]

27, where do you have that infection? Because I have this rash on my armpits and I'm starting to wonder if I've got a little something.

Hey Master Mal, I am not sure 100% where the infection is, but I believe this is located primarily in my stomach and small or large intestine. Here is what is going to sound really stupid / silly / unbelievable but I was diagnosed by a chiropractor, who is also involved with nutrition and homeopathy.

I went in and would lay down, with my right arm extended in the air. Then this guy would push against it (right arm) and I would have to resist. He mentioned that if I had any issues in the body, when he would touch that area I would be unable to resist like I had previously. So he starts pressing around on the chest and finds a spot where he said if I have an infection, this will be weak. Sure enough it was. So then he says he wants to identify where my infection is and asked me all my symptoms and I go into my long, drawn-out story and tell him about the Propecia issues. He was great and believed me 100%, so then he starts messing with my stomach and, I'll be damned if my arm can't hold up. Touches the left side of my check, where I have facial wastage and sure enough can't hold shit up (could on my right side).

So then he has these different vials of bacteria, fungus, viruses, and a forth one I can't remember. Each grouping has four different vials and I touch the four with my left hand, still holding the right hand in the air and, once again, if that is what is in my body I won't be able to resist. First three, no issues, get to the fungal grouping and my arm goes straight down. Next he takes each of the four fungal groups and one by one, determines which one is causing me issues. Gets it to the one vial and places this on my stomach and then starts putting one herb at a time on my stomach and testing my strength. Ultimately determining that the Olive Leaf is what will help combat this infection.

Weirdest shit ever and wouldn't believe it, so immediately go home and have my girlfriend repeat the test with touching my stomach and wtf - same results. So I am adding the Olive Leaf on a daily basis to my ongoing rotation.

To finally answer your question, I believe the infection is in my stomach primarily, and secondarily in my intestines, but I have also had random rashes on my arm over the last few weeks (of course these cleared up in time before my doctor's appointment).

[27&Scared]

Make sure you carb backload as well so that you get enough carbs. Carbs are still important.

Thanks Snell, still working on fine-tuning the diet and will definitely keep this in mind.

[Benq123]

High FODMAPS give me discomfort, I really noticed it with my juicing cleanse. There were several fruits and veggies that were causing my stomach severe angst, talking unruly gurgling and dumping issues. After reporting this to my nutritionist, we began to work on a solution and ran through the FODMAP diet protocol and after looking at what was high FODMAP - I realized that my diet needed to be even stricter. For example, Apples were a huge no-no, they caused me severe bloating and stomach issues for a couple hours after each drink.

If fodmaps give you digestive distress it usually means you have SIBO, I believe

[27&Scared]

Began working out this week and noticing that i seem to be really tight. For example, did tricep exercises and the bastards are extremely sore. However, doesn't feel like the muscles themselves, more so the tendons. I remember feeling like this back in January, when I did not realize it was the drug. Anyone else get this? Any remedies?

[Swill]

Absolutely, the remedy for this is to keep going. Know that this is totally normal for someone starting to work out and hurts like a bitch for the first week or two as your body adjusts to resistance weight training, but then it disappears quickly and you get the 'ache' feeling rather than the 'bruised, pain' feeling.

I've had to take some spells off training due to injuries this last year. I feel it exactly as you describe, then within a couple weeks I'm back to just a little ache when I hit a muscle group hard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[27&Scared]

Absolutely, the remedy for this is to keep going. Know that this is totally normal for someone starting to work out and hurts like a bitch for the first week or two as your body adjusts to resistance weight training, but then it disappears quickly and you get the 'ache' feeling rather than the 'bruised, pain' feeling.

I've had to take some spells off training due to injuries this last year. I feel it exactly as you describe, then within a couple weeks I'm back to just a little ache when I hit a muscle group hard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Swill, as always, thanks man! I appreciate the feedback and will keep going.

[27&Scared]

Been having a good week, as far as lifting, but I feel like I have regressed in other areas. Brain fog and digestive issues (bloating and gurgling similar to before the cleanse) have been horrible this week. Also having severe nerve pain and tingling on the left side of the body. Any suggestions, or is this normal?

[Swill]

with the nerve tingling perhaps you have had a small pull or something from working out... if it is in the shoulder/back or whatever then just listen to your body and ease it up on the workouts until it clears.

Are you gluten free right now? The other issues could be a typical PFS downswing... this is normal, you get good spells and then bad spells and sometimes people look for the logic of why they are doing much better/worse when it is the fluctuation that commonly occurs for this thing as you are working it out. Stay confident and steadfast in what your doing, and remain emotionally positive. It will pass.

[27&Scared]

Recovery seems to be getting better each day, one issue I am still having is related to the adrenals. Face is constantly tingling; sometimes it is one side, then the other, and sometimes it is both sides. Also pissing out all the water I drink + some within a few minutes. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Cdsnuts]

Recovery seems to be getting better each day, one issue I am still having is related to the adrenals. Face is constantly tingling; sometimes it is one side, then the other, and sometimes it is both sides. Also pissing out all the water I drink + some within a few minutes. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the thing. Alot of these things are just part of the healing process. You go into so many different stages that trying to bandaid every single one of them will drive you nuts.

As long as you're doing everything you're supposed to be doing, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Things will come and things will go, but you will continue to improve over time.

[27&Scared]

Hey fellas -

It has been a long time since I've responded and I've completely fallen off the wagon. I have continued to have issues with the cancer scare and have run through 8-10 doctors over the last 4 months trying to get the lip sensation figured out. I could really use some help, has anyone seen anything on this site about fat and numbness occurring on one side of the face and then subsequently switching to the other side? Things just haven't been right neurologically since that original biopsy nearly 4 months ago. I am really scared and hoping this is just PFS related, but I am not sure. I also have lost muscle only in the right arm, chest, and neck after regaining most of it from the herbs. I have another doctor's appointment tomorrow and if they tell me no cancer, I am getting back on the protocol ASAP. It has been a rough ass fall for me, which sucks cause i was really feeling the gains in late July, early August. Then boom that painless ulcer popped up and it has been downhill ever since. Could really use some prayers..

Also, has anyone on the site had any sort of procedure since having PFS that didn't seem to heal properly? I am hoping this is the issue I am running into - but don't know. Finally word of advice, never start dipping - that could've saved me from this whole fucking ordeal.

[jacknap]

what do u mean by dipping? I had facial twitching during my water fast and then it came back 2 months again after going away. Now it's mostly gone but comes back when I'm in a downswing/tired.

Think it might be low dopamine related but just a theory...

[27&Scared]

Dipping, as in chewing tobacco.

[Hulk Smash]

What the?!?!
For how long/when were you chewing?

I've gotten the impression from my own experience and reading that our body doesn't metabolize certain foods or substances the same way prior to crashing. So it's possible the chewing affected you. We can indulge again after recovery, not before.

[27&Scared]

What the?!?!
For how long/when were you chewing?

I've gotten the impression from my own experience and reading that our body doesn't metabolize certain foods or substances the same way prior to crashing. So it's possible the chewing affected you. We can indulge again after recovery, not before.

I dipped for about 7 years, on and off, both prior and during the PFS issues. I am not sure what the root cause is, but know my symptoms that I am experiencing now are different from my PFS symptoms. I'll have more to report back, hopefully in the next few days.