For that are asking how R-Andro works for PFS

[TubZy]

Please see this study since people keep asking how R-Andro actually helps compared to using standard AAS. I would suggest reading through the entire thing, I just posted a short part taken out of it but def worth a read

Anticonvulsant Potencies of the Enantiomers of the Neurosteroids Androsterone and Etiocholanolone Exceed those of the Natural Forms (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134984/)

"Androsterone [(3α,5α)-3-hydroxyandrostan-17-one; 5α,3α-A] and its 5β-epimer etiocholanolone [(3α,5β)-3-hydroxyandrostan-17-one; 5β,3α-A)], the major excreted metabolites of testosterone, are neurosteroid positive modulators of GABAA receptors. Such neurosteroids typically show enantioselectivity in which the natural form is more potent than the corresponding unnatural enantiomer. For 5α,3α-A and 5β,3α-A, the unnatural enantiomers are more potent at GABAA receptors than the natural forms."

Certain endogenous steroid hormone metabolites are positive allosteric modulators of GABAA receptors at low concentrations and directly gate these receptors at higher concentrations (Lambert et al., 2009). As is the case for other agents that enhance inhibitory GABAergic function, such neurosteroids protect against seizures in diverse animal models, and there is emerging evidence that agents of this type are effective in the treatment of seizures and epilepsy in humans (Reddy and Rogawski, 2012; Bialer et al., 2013). The anticonvulsant potency of such steroids is closely correlated with their activity at GABAA receptors (Morrow et al., 1990; Kokate et al., 1994). Although the pregnanes allopregnanolone [(3α,5α)-3-hydroxypregnan-20-one)] and tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone [(3α,5α)-3,21-dihydroxypregnan-20-one)] were the first endogenous GABAA receptor modulatory neurosteroids to be identified (Paul and Purdy, 1992), it is now recognized that a number of structurally related endogenous steroids have similar actions on GABAA receptors. In particular, the 17-ketosteroid androsterone (5α,3α-A; Fig. 1) potentiatates GABAA receptor responses albeit more weakly than allopregnanolone (Turner et al., 1989; Hawkinson et al., 1994; Anderson et al., 2000), and we demonstrated that it, as well as its 5β-epimer etiocholanolone (5β,3α-A), exhibit anticonvulsant activity in animal seizure models (Kaminski et al., 2005).

[Snell1234]

Thanks for the info.

Are you going to give the r andro another run tubzy?

[TubZy]

Possibly, but most likely will stack the r-andro with 500mg of niacinamide per dose and/or 4 andro. Any steroid/neurosteroid supplement stacked with niacinamide should increase the effectiveness along w/ caffeine/aspirin etc.

[coppersocks]

I'll give a full update soon but I'm currently at about 4 weeks of 400mg R Andro and 500mg niacinamide and I'm seeing brilliant results. Would say I'm pretty close to 100% many days and don't even feel as if I have a problem much of the time. First couple of weeks my sleep was awful but with more sugar before bed and an occasional T3 microdose I'm sleeping better than ever. Also getting in the caffeine and apirin.

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[Snell1234]

Great news. Looking forward to the full update.

Is this your first run on it? What issues did you run into with it initially?

[jimmyjonas]

[QUOTE=coppersocks;54500]I'll give a full update soon but I'm currently at about 4 weeks of 400mg R Andro and 500mg niacinamide and I'm seeing brilliant results. Would say I'm pretty close to 100% many days and don't even feel as if I have a problem much of the time. First couple of weeks my sleep was awful but with more sugar before bed and an occasional T3 microdose I'm sleeping better than ever. Also getting in the caffeine and apirin.

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Good news Coppersocks, delighted for you man!

[TubZy]

I'll give a full update soon but I'm currently at about 4 weeks of 400mg R Andro and 500mg niacinamide and I'm seeing brilliant results. Would say I'm pretty close to 100% many days and don't even feel as if I have a problem much of the time. First couple of weeks my sleep was awful but with more sugar before bed and an occasional T3 microdose I'm sleeping better than ever. Also getting in the caffeine and apirin.

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Sweet bro, you can up the niacinamide to a gram if you want. Try taking 500mg with each R andro dose it will help the increase in enzyme conversion, if you start to feel to tired or sedated stick to the 500mg dose. That is why caffeine and aspirin work in synergy with it as well, they are considered "stimulating" so they work good with the niacinamide.

Just watch the metabolism, keep the carbs and sugar high, if you notice cold hands and feet, you need more carbs/sugar & calories.

[biatch]

From my Last blood test, it came out I had low estrogens. Do you think it s the case to test them again before running the R andro since it can drop them even more?

[Maxout777]

From my Last blood test, it came out I had low estrogens. Do you think it s the case to test them again before running the R andro since it can drop them even more?

Did you have low testosterone as well? If you have low T, it's not uncommon (like, at all) to have low estrogen as well.

[TubZy]

From my Last blood test, it came out I had low estrogens. Do you think it s the case to test them again before running the R andro since it can drop them even more?

I wouldn't worry about it unless it causes you issues. Honestly, the main concern would probably making sure cholesterol is not getting too low since andro was originally developed for that and low cholesterol on its own can cause bad side effects.

If estrogen is getting very low, add in 4 andro and it should help bring it back up to normal or lower your R andro dose.

Also what maxxout said is also true. If you have low T to begin with I wouldn't even take prohormones to start until you get your T up.

[Snell1234]

I wouldn't worry about it unless it causes you issues. Honestly, the main concern would probably making sure cholesterol is not getting too low since andro was originally developed for that and low cholesterol on its own can cause bad side effects.

If estrogen is getting very low, add in 4 andro and it should help bring it back up to normal or lower your R andro dose.

Also what maxxout said is also true. If you have low T to begin with I wouldn't even take prohormones to start until you get your T up.
Could the prohormones help get the test up? What would be the reasons for waitinf for that?

[Durantia37]

Could the prohormones help get the test up? What would be the reasons for waitinf for that?

Well, for one thing, low T means low estrogen. Having low estrogen and then taking something anti-estrogenic for weeks and weeks isn't a great idea. If you've been doing herbs daily for months I can't imagine you would have this problem.

[biatch]

Did you have low testosterone as well? If you have low T, it's not uncommon (like, at all) to have low estrogen as well.
Yes, my free T and my estro were both low and Total T was in range. I used to have a over size T over the top range and I dropped it by using prohormones, I will have a blood check soon again to see if T has raisen a bit up.

[TubZy]

Could the prohormones help get the test up? What would be the reasons for waitinf for that?

R Andro will increase DHT greatly. Over time large amounts of excess DHT can cause mild suppression but no where near as bad as how suppressive estrogen is on The HPTA. But again, with androsterone we don't really know the dose that can cause suppression since even up to 150mg didn't cause suppression. If you have solid test levels to begin with suppression from R Andro shouldn't been an issue at all at reasonable times and dosage. Prior to fin, from using AAS like superdrol, I never had an issues with suppression even with taking hard stuff.

[biatch]

How is it muthaf. Possible then that I had T over the top range and after using for 5 days androstenolone it shutted down my T level and made my dick flop more than Propecia? 5 fucking days.. I am still not recoved from it after 8 months. So I am going to have blood test to check what is going on, but I would really like to run R andro if not getting muself in even more issues.

[Maxout777]

How is it muthaf. Possible then that I had T over the top range and after using for 5 days androstenolone it shutted down my T level and made my dick flop more than Propecia? 5 fucking days.. I am still not recoved from it after 8 months. So I am going to have blood test to check what is going on, but I would really like to run R andro if not getting muself in even more issues.
Androstenolone is DHEA, chief. If you high dosed DHEA with PFS it's probably easy to understand how you had such a terrible reaction. I believe TubZy has posted here before....he can only tolerate about 5mg DHEA in a sitting.

[TubZy]

How is it muthaf. Possible then that I had T over the top range and after using for 5 days androstenolone it shutted down my T level and made my dick flop more than Propecia? 5 fucking days.. I am still not recoved from it after 8 months. So I am going to have blood test to check what is going on, but I would really like to run R andro if not getting muself in even more issues.

With DHEA anything more than 15mg daily will convert to estrogen. Not sure what dose you were using, using DHEA alone for PFS isn't the best even anecdotally as well unless it was part of a larger regimen so I wouldn't even mess with it.

[biatch]

I even don't remember the dose I run but for sure a lot more than what you re talking about....

[Snell1234]

With DHEA anything more than 15mg daily will convert to estrogen. Not sure what dose you were using, using DHEA alone for PFS isn't the best even anecdotally as well unless it was part of a larger regimen so I wouldn't even mess with it.
Pine pollen tincture has dhea in it. Is that still okay to use?

[Cdsnuts]

Smh....

You guys should not be second guessing any of the herbs recommended.

No need to get hysterical.

[Snell1234]

Smh....

You guys should not be second guessing any of the herbs recommended.

No need to get hysterical.

Haha just wanted to check, in no way do i doubt the master!

[TubZy]

Pine pollen tincture has dhea in it. Is that still okay to use?

The amount is minuscule (microgram to very low milligram range)

[Snell1234]

I've looked for the amounts of the hormones in the tincture but haven't been able to find them anywhere. Is androsterone at a decent level in it?

[The battler]

Hey tubzy,i have seen you recommend pregnenolone at 150 mg to be stacked with the R andro for guys suffering from pfs related ball shrinkage despite having a very high LH hormone.
Therefore, what if I go for the R andro, preg and 4 Andro stacked together.
Would you advise that?
Or should i stick with either the 4 andro or the preg when it comes to stacking with the randro?

[K8668B]

Hey tubzy, another question here. I plan on using r andro myself shortly as well. But since you always mention niacinamide, i was wondering what a good, legit, potent brand to purchase would be?

I respond very well to caffeine/coffee, and i have felt the benefits and stimulation of niacin in the past many times!

[TubZy]

Hey tubzy,i have seen you recommend pregnenolone at 150 mg to be stacked with the R andro for guys suffering from pfs related ball shrinkage despite having a very high LH hormone.
Therefore, what if I go for the R andro, preg and 4 Andro stacked together.
Would you advise that?
Or should i stick with either the 4 andro or the preg when it comes to stacking with the randro?

Hold off on the preg first I would say and start with just R andro and niacinamide. See how you react first you may not even need to mess with since preg can be much more tricky to deal with.

- - - Updated - - -


Hey tubzy, another question here. I plan on using r andro myself shortly as well. But since you always mention niacinamide, i was wondering what a good, legit, potent brand to purchase would be?

I respond very well to caffeine/coffee, and i have felt the benefits and stimulation of niacin in the past many times!

pure encapsulations and nutrabio are both good brands (no crappy fillers, hypoallergenic etc.)

[DrivenToRecover]

Hold off on the preg first I would say and start with just R andro and niacinamide. See how you react first you may not even need to mess with since preg can be much more tricky to deal with.

- - - Updated - - -



pure encapsulations and nutrabio are both good brands (no crappy fillers, hypoallergenic etc.)

Tubz, I'm starting my second cycle, and I'm wanting to get the absolute most out of this. The following things I am planning to incorporate into my daily doses along with the R-andro.

Caffeine 100 mg 2x daily
Asprin 325 2x daily
Niacinamide 500mg 2x daily
5adhp-1-5 drops 2x daily
preg-low dose 2x daily
T3/4 with each meal
Plenty of fruit- mainly cherries and OJ
Naltrexone-Currently in the mail. Dose?
5 Drops diamant 2x daily to help everything more easily cross BBB

Anything else you'd recommend or change?

[TubZy]

Tubz, I'm starting my second cycle, and I'm wanting to get the absolute most out of this. The following things I am planning to incorporate into my daily doses along with the R-andro.

Caffeine 100 mg 2x daily
Asprin 325 2x daily
Niacinamide 500mg 2x daily
5adhp-1-5 drops 2x daily
preg-low dose 2x daily
T3/4 with each meal
Plenty of fruit- mainly cherries and OJ
Naltrexone-Currently in the mail. Dose?
5 Drops diamant 2x daily to help everything more easily cross BBB

Anything else you'd recommend or change?

That looks really good actually. However, unless you absolutely need the thyroid and preg I don't think it is necessary while using R Andro since androsterone can mimic T3 so you can overstimulate metabolism and potentially feel worse.

I would start with less first maybe with just R andro, niacinamide, caffeine and aspirin.
And if you want you can add in naltrexone and 5a-dhp but that might be overkill.

[DrivenToRecover]

Not gonna lie I do feel pretty damn stimulated right now.

Any idea how much it mimics T3?

I'd like to adjust my thyroid supps to stay in the tsh sweet spot


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[TubZy]

Not gonna lie I do feel pretty damn stimulated right now.

Any idea how much it mimics T3?

I'd like to adjust my thyroid supps to stay in the tsh sweet spot


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Dosage, Not sure for the thyroid equivalent, though only a few milligrams of androsterone inhibited like (80%+) of estrogen so I'm sure it doesn't take much. Even 5-10mg's of androsterone and you can feel the metabolic effects so not much is needed at all.

I would just play it by ear, stick to your prescribed meds, and add in 1 cap of R andro and see how you feel. And do that for a day or two and if you feel good then add a second cap in and so on so forth. I probably wouldn't go over 400mg of R andro if you are planning to add in all that other stuff. Remember all that stuff lowers cholesterol as well including R andro, so make sure your cholesterol levels are good (high enough) and are eating enough nutrients and sugar/carbs.

For me, R andro and niacinamide burns up glucose pretty fast (even higher doses of niacinamide alone does) so I can't imagine being on NDT, preg, aspirin, diamant etc. you must be eating sugar all day lol so you don't go hypo

[Jado]

I know this is a really old thread, but I've got a question. I've been going through some of the old threads and finding some great info! I've noticed niacinamide is mentioned quite often, and seems like it will help me. I'm planning to order Pure Encapsulations niacinamide. I'm curious, is this something to add in daily, or is it something that should be cycled?

[Cdsnuts]

I know this is a really old thread, but I've got a question. I've been going through some of the old threads and finding some great info! I've noticed niacinamide is mentioned quite often, and seems like it will help me. I'm planning to order Pure Encapsulations niacinamide. I'm curious, is this something to add in daily, or is it something that should be cycled?

I couldn't tell you because it's not something that I ever used or recommended. Maybe others will chime in.

[Jado]

I couldn't tell you because it's not something that I ever used or recommended. Maybe others will chime in.
I know it's not part of the protocol, but sounds like it has some potential for neuro sides. AlsoTubZy was a big fan, not sure if he's even still around.
Also, ordering some pine pollen tincture. I've been cycling 13 herbs (including pine pollen powder) but never added the tincture - looks like I've been missing out.
Anyway, thanks for the reply. And, I know everyone says it, but thanks for sticking around to help us. It's great you're paying it forward. I plan to do the same once I beat this crap.

[Karlucchi]

Niacinamide worked great for me for the first couple weeks I was taking it but then the results started to fizzle. Not sure if it was a tolerance thing or if it was only beneficial to a point in my recovery. I tend to think its the latter because when I take it after not taking it for a while, what used to be very apparent results don't happen anymore.
My opinion is that it is beneficial for PFS sufferers but I would stick to 500 mg a day. Studies show it is androgenic and lowers cortisol, both good things for PFS sufferers.

[Zerolibido]

d DO the GOD DAMN PROTOCL.BITCH