Swill's R-Andro/4-Andro Odyssey

[Swill]

So today I have begun my second cycle, following my previous successful 6 week cycle with IML R-Andro at 400mg daily. If you want a summary of how that went it is in the PFS section under ‘Swill’s Dance with R-Andro.’

Note: I am recovering from PFS and part of this log will focus on the progress or otherwise of my side effects in this regard as well as the bodybuilding/physique element… I put it in Personal Training Logs as figure this is the best fit but Mods feel free to move if you wish!

For this cycle I am going to stack IML R-Andro (400mg) daily, with IML 4-Andro (400mg)… I am starting the cycle with 250mg daily and going to gradually increase to 400mg over the first couple weeks. The cycle length is 12 weeks, so a nice long run. The dosing will be 200mg R-Andro and 200mg 4-Andro in the morning, and the same pre workout… any advice or comments please chime in here J

About me: 5ft11”, 181.5lbs fasted morning weight. I have been battling with A LOT of injuries, mainly back injuries over the last year or so, as well as popping a rib around 3 weeks back which was agony. I am hoping for a good run and staying injury free, but as a result of the breaks in training from injuries I am not as lean as I once was. I have attached pictures taken last night on the post below; taken last thing at night following a BIG backload after training legs so a little bit of bloat in them.

My training is going to be very varied for the duration of the cycle but I am definitely intending to push myself injuries permitting. It may involve some longer running and cardio due to an attempted pre-season soccer comeback in the coming weeks (back injuries have ruled me out for nearly all of last season). I will certainly be prioritising strength training in the gym and will be sure to hit the major compounds for the duration of the cycle, it will be a minimum of 4 gym sessions per week as well as getting my HIIT and cardio on top of that with the soccer training etc. I also do a ‘Yoga for Athletes’ class once a week, which is excellent for core strength and mobility, and cuts out a lot of the spiritual aspect of Yoga.

I will be very consistent with my diet, clean and focus around the principles of carb backloading to lean up, 5 meals a day and will monitor and adjust as necessary. I will be supplementing with BCAA’s and creatine daily, as well as liquid Solgar vitamin D3 (5000 iu daily) and spirulina and a Natural Calm magnesium supplement pre-bed.

Looking forward to keeping you updated with progress with regard to strength and size gains and all other observations (including those PFS related) for the duration of the cycle. Will also post progress pictures along with regular updates. Any questions, ask away!

[Swill]

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[Cdsnuts]

In...

[Maxout777]

In on this as well.

[Eden]

I assume the stuff your running is prohormone? I don't keep up with these things anymore. What are you doing to help with the injuries any soft tissue work or the like?

[Swill]

I assume the stuff your running is prohormone? I don't keep up with these things anymore. What are you doing to help with the injuries any soft tissue work or the like?

Yeah man, the two products are by Iron Mag Labs, R-Andro and 4-Andro... links below...

Super R-Andro Rx | IronMag Labs (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-r-andro-rx/)
Super 4-Andro Rx | IronMag Labs (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-4-andro-rx/)

In terms of the injury recovery, I am foam rolling most days and having occasional soft tissue sports massage on an as needed basis, as well as maintenance chiropractic. I am stretching regularly and doing the yoga weekly to try and correct the imbalances that are clearly there to cause this on a repeated basis.

I can run in a straight line for days but my issues come with the twisting and turning that is involved with soccer.

[K8668B]

Im in!

Im excited for you! You've responded very well to this in the past. Cant wait to see how you do on your 2nd run.

[Durantia37]

In. Might try this combo next time, hope it's even better than your last one.

[biatch]

Exited by waiting from your next updates....

[Swill]

Very brief 1 week update, pics to follow (although obviously too early to see a big effect)...

Dosings: 4 days at R-Andro (400mg) and 4-Andro (250mg), then 4 days R-Andro (400mg) and 4-Andro (300mg).

Training: I've hit it hard and been very consistent and varied in my training... 4 resistant weight training sessions...

1) Legs
2) Chest and Triceps
3) Shoulders and core
4) Back and Biceps

Also, 1 yoga session, and a 7 mile run on saturday which is the longest i've done in forever in preparation for my first soccer practice in forever, which was tonight... went well and is an epic cardio workout but not sure how my back will tolerate it, we will see tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

How I feel: Felt great physically, good strength gains in the gym, a lot more energy throughout the day, deeper sleep, and a more alpha feeling. Still don't feel I'm firing on all cylinders but certainly a solid first week. Had a little bit of back acne and slightly oilier skin also. Looking forward to some expected strength gains, and can feel myself tightening up slowly but surely.

For the PFSers: I will be honest, its been a bit so-so. I have not had the sledgehammer effect from when I run the R-Andro solo where my libido and sexual aggression shot up. I am far from worried though and just taking it as it comes right now, and i haven't been BAD sexually per-se, i've certainly been able to perform, but not at the level of my previous cycle.

The way I see things, this is a much longer cycle than my last (12 weeks as opposed to 6) so I am going to give it time and patients and a level head, something I preach a lot on this board, then if I am to drop the 4-andro and go back to the R-Andro solo I will still have plenty of time for this. Im aware that a lot of people talk about a magic 4 week mark for these DHEA compounds so may very well wait it out and see where it leads.

Looking for advice from the experienced lot here... where would you go right now in my shoes, heighten to the planned 400mg of 4-Andro, continue on the 300mg or even drop dosing? All opinions welcome.

Will continue to update weekly/bi-weekly as things unfold

[Swill]

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[Cdsnuts]

Very brief 1 week update, pics to follow (although obviously too early to see a big effect)...

Dosings: 4 days at R-Andro (400mg) and 4-Andro (250mg), then 4 days R-Andro (400mg) and 4-Andro (300mg).

Training: I've hit it hard and been very consistent and varied in my training... 4 resistant weight training sessions...

1) Legs
2) Chest and Triceps
3) Shoulders and core
4) Back and Biceps

Also, 1 yoga session, and a 7 mile run on saturday which is the longest i've done in forever in preparation for my first soccer practice in forever, which was tonight... went well and is an epic cardio workout but not sure how my back will tolerate it, we will see tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

How I feel: Felt great physically, good strength gains in the gym, a lot more energy throughout the day, deeper sleep, and a more alpha feeling. Still don't feel I'm firing on all cylinders but certainly a solid first week. Had a little bit of back acne and slightly oilier skin also. Looking forward to some expected strength gains, and can feel myself tightening up slowly but surely.

For the PFSers: I will be honest, its been a bit so-so. I have not had the sledgehammer effect from when I run the R-Andro solo where my libido and sexual aggression shot up. I am far from worried though and just taking it as it comes right now, and i haven't been BAD sexually per-se, i've certainly been able to perform, but not at the level of my previous cycle.

The way I see things, this is a much longer cycle than my last (12 weeks as opposed to 6) so I am going to give it time and patients and a level head, something I preach a lot on this board, then if I am to drop the 4-andro and go back to the R-Andro solo I will still have plenty of time for this. Im aware that a lot of people talk about a magic 4 week mark for these DHEA compounds so may very well wait it out and see where it leads.

Looking for advice from the experienced lot here... where would you go right now in my shoes, heighten to the planned 400mg of 4-Andro, continue on the 300mg or even drop dosing? All opinions welcome.

Will continue to update weekly/bi-weekly as things unfold
I would suggest keeping the 4 Andro dose at 300 seeing as this is your first run with the compound and you're going to be on for 3 months.

Like you had originally said, give it a month or so and then decide what you'd like to do at that point. You may be happy where you're at and not want to increase the dose at all.

That being said even if you stayed at the doses you were at now for the entire cycle you would still see slow and steady gains throughout

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[Swill]

Thanks CD, any thoughts on not getting the libido blast I had from
R-Andro solo?

Given the length of the cycle I'm happy to give it time and see what happens but obviously my priority with the run right now is to ramp up the libido and improve baseline, so if things don't pick up in that regard maybe drop the 4 half way through and go R solo? Or any other suggestion?

I'm aware it's very early in the day with this, but just interested in your thoughts?


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[Cdsnuts]

Thanks CD, any thoughts on not getting the libido blast I had from
R-Andro solo?

Given the length of the cycle I'm happy to give it time and see what happens but obviously my priority with the run right now is to ramp up the libido and improve baseline, so if things don't pick up in that regard maybe drop the 4 half way through and go R solo? Or any other suggestion?

I'm aware it's very early in the day with this, but just interested in your thoughts?


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Could be a variety of hormonal interplay going on concerning estrogen which is limiting your experience in regards to libido.

Do yourself a favor... Because it's so early in the cycle just drop the four all together and run the r-andro and see if you can recreate what you had the first time.

If you can then you know the four is not for you at this time

I understand why you're running this particular cycle which is why I'm suggesting that. No sense in running something for a month if it's not going to do you any good. I imagine once you drop the four you will notice in a couple days

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[Swill]

Ok man, will drop the 4 and report back in a week or so. Thank you!


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[biatch]

Ok man, will drop the 4 and report back in a week or so. Thank you!


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...By the way, how is it going and what are you doing?

[biatch]

Whats up Swill, any update?

[Swill]

Was going to leave this a little longer before giving a big update, but will give a mini update as to where i am at.

I am currently running the R-Andro solo at 400mg/day. I dropped the 4-andro around 10 days ago, and in honesty I quite miss it lol. I was looking forward to stacking on some mass with this thing, but the priority is and has to be improving my baseline following the finasteride issues, so it is what it is and that comes first right now. Unfortunately it seems as though at this point in time the 4-andro was not doing me any favours, but it works great for others... reinforces when I have said in many other threads, every body is different and people will respond to different things in different ways.

4-andro made me feel great and full of energy, great workouts and stamina, slept like a baby, just it didnt bring the sexual benefits id hoped at this time... shelved for now. I'm still getting all those benefits but to a slightly lesser extent with the R-Andro solo. Certainly still worthwhile and enjoyable.

in terms of my gym workouts, still been hard at it with the resistance weight training hitting all the muscle groups and making steady progress, although not as much as I was with the 4 in the mix. I am tightening up slowly and will add pictures in a couple weeks so there is a meaningful comparison. Still doing yoga for mobility and my back has held up for soccer practice which I'm overjoyed with, its taxing on the body but a passion of mine and nothing gives a cardio HIIT style work out like it... the accelerating, stopping, twisting, turning, physical battling, it will all help if I can keep it going and lean me up good too.

In terms of sexual sides, I will be honest that I have not yet hit the highs of my previous cycle in terms of getting the animal libido and increased sexual thought (I'm thinking there may still be a bit of the residual from the 4-andro at play) but I have had some good sex this week and certainly there was more sensation/libido/good erections in the act, so the benefits could very well be coming from the R-Andro.

No serious negative sides to report from the R-Andro whatsoever. Slightly oilier skin and a little more shedding maybe but thats it and far from important.

In still only just over 2 weeks deep so plenty of time to go (Another 10 weeks is the plan), so onwards and upwards... Pictures with the next update.

[Maxout777]

Was going to leave this a little longer before giving a big update, but will give a mini update as to where i am at.

I am currently running the R-Andro solo at 400mg/day. I dropped the 4-andro around 10 days ago, and in honesty I quite miss it lol. I was looking forward to stacking on some mass with this thing, but the priority is and has to be improving my baseline following the finasteride issues, so it is what it is and that comes first right now. Unfortunately it seems as though at this point in time the 4-andro was not doing me any favours, but it works great for others... reinforces when I have said in many other threads, every body is different and people will respond to different things in different ways.

4-andro made me feel great and full of energy, great workouts and stamina, slept like a baby, just it didnt bring the sexual benefits id hoped at this time... shelved for now. I'm still getting all those benefits but to a slightly lesser extent with the R-Andro solo. Certainly still worthwhile and enjoyable.

in terms of my gym workouts, still been hard at it with the resistance weight training hitting all the muscle groups and making steady progress, although not as much as I was with the 4 in the mix. I am tightening up slowly and will add pictures in a couple weeks so there is a meaningful comparison. Still doing yoga for mobility and my back has held up for soccer practice which I'm overjoyed with, its taxing on the body but a passion of mine and nothing gives a cardio HIIT style work out like it... the accelerating, stopping, twisting, turning, physical battling, it will all help if I can keep it going and lean me up good too.

In terms of sexual sides, I will be honest that I have not yet hit the highs of my previous cycle in terms of getting the animal libido and increased sexual thought (I'm thinking there may still be a bit of the residual from the 4-andro at play) but I have had some good sex this week and certainly there was more sensation/libido/good erections in the act, so the benefits could very well be coming from the R-Andro.

No serious negative sides to report from the R-Andro whatsoever. Slightly oilier skin and a little more shedding maybe but thats it and far from important.

In still only just over 2 weeks deep so plenty of time to go (Another 10 weeks is the plan), so onwards and upwards... Pictures with the next update.

Good luck, buddy. I've recently switched back to R Andro from the Andro Hard TD. The epi andro in that was making me a walking asshole, 24/7. Feel much cleaner and without the massive aggression all the time.

[Swill]

Good luck, buddy. I've recently switched back to R Andro from the Andro Hard TD. The epi andro in that was making me a walking asshole, 24/7. Feel much cleaner and without the massive aggression all the time.

I have the occasional swing on the R-Andro where I'm a bit of a dick and short fused, but nothing all that bad that I can't handle.

Good call regarding switching over I think man. How did the TD run treat you aside from that and how long were you on it?

[biatch]

I am still wondering if here will ever been one moment when in a "recovered" situation people will stop using prohormones, I mean, CD, Max etc are still using this stuff even if recovered..this let me think that here is still somethig going on with them..I mean once recovered what s the point to go on this stuff again and again...

[Swill]

I am still wondering if here will ever been one moment when in a "recovered" situation people will stop using prohormones, I mean, CD, Max etc are still using this stuff even if recovered..this let me think that here is still somethig going on with them..I mean once recovered what s the point to go on this stuff again and again...

Biatch, you are missing the point entirely. Thousands of people that do not nor have ever had PFS CHOOSE to run pro hormones... this very board was set up for that reason long before there was a PFS related sub forum here. People do it for aesthetic and performance reasons and because they want to. They dont just do it for improved sexual or PFS symptoms, they do it for increased strength, endurance, mass gain and to operate at a higher level.

It is disrespectful of you to question that just because the individuals you have mentioned make the choice to continue to occasionally use pro hormones, because they just god damn like the effects of them and enjoy it, that you question whether they are not being true in their claims. I thought you were starting to understand this place a little, and I thought you wouldn't be as closed minded as that. Stop living in such a constant world of paranoia.

And as ridiculous as your claim is, just to say also that plenty of people have recovered and stopped taking pro hormones... plenty of people have recovered and not used a pro hormone in the first place. I know CD has gone extended periods without taking PH's.

Hope that clarifies what 'the point' of this stuff is. Maybe when you get the courage to take the stuff you will see why people use them out of choice. I'm not recovered but when I am, I would probably consider it.

Please think before you post these insults. These people don't claim to be 'cured' as some sick joke, they are here to share their experiences, and it is important to recognise that this is a forum for performance and bodybuilding interests, not just the PFS element you are interested in.

[biatch]

What I Said was not a disrespectfull way in my opinion, and I ve already asked this question privately to Max and he replied me the same way you re doing. So I am not disrespecting anyone, it s just always the same doubting though (wrongly) I have since I am in a jail state where I still cant see a recovered stable situation on me (even if I almost got there before). I think my thoughts are probaby coming from a psicological "jail" side..no more and yes paranoia get in easily.

[Maxout777]

What I Said was not a disrespectfull way in my opinion, and I ve already asked this question privately to Max and he replied me the same way you re doing. So I am not disrespecting anyone, it s just always the same doubting though (wrongly) I have since I am in a jail state where I still cant see a recovered stable situation on me (even if I almost got there before). I think my thoughts are probaby coming from a psicological "jail" side..no more and yes paranoia get in easily.

The reason you're getting the replies you get is because we all know what you're doing. You're looking for a way out before you begin by saying that we have to do x or y to continue living a normal life. We don't, and you're only hurting yourself.

[Swill]

Cycle abandoned at the 3 week mark. The reason being I'm just not getting what I had hoped from it.

I have been on point with everything and it has been disappointing in that regard, but its just a minor setback. The only thing different has been the 4-andro, which although I dropped it at around 10 days, the feeling I got from the cycle never changed to a large degree and i certainly didn't get the 'sledgehammer' effect I had when introducing the R Andro last time, and thats what i was after.

The plan is to give it 3/4 weeks back on the herbs, build things up and then go again but with the R-andro solo. Hopefully this will recreate the feeling of the first cycle. Also, I want to state for anyone reading this the pro hormones did not give me any kind of bad reaction in any way... I just didn't get the positive effects I was looking for.

Onwards and upwards!

[Maxout777]

Cycle abandoned at the 3 week mark. The reason being I'm just not getting what I had hoped from it.

I have been on point with everything and it has been disappointing in that regard, but its just a minor setback. The only thing different has been the 4-andro, which although I dropped it at around 10 days, the feeling I got from the cycle never changed to a large degree and i certainly didn't get the 'sledgehammer' effect I had when introducing the R Andro last time, and thats what i was after.

The plan is to give it 3/4 weeks back on the herbs, build things up and then go again but with the R-andro solo. Hopefully this will recreate the feeling of the first cycle. Also, I want to state for anyone reading this the pro hormones did not give me any kind of bad reaction in any way... I just didn't get the positive effects I was looking for.

Onwards and upwards!

Keep the faith buddy. I did around 4 cycles before I considered myself "recovered" - this may be of some interest to you, but some better were better than others, especially on the sexual front. So maybe timing with your bodies' current state of homeostasis was just off. The next run could be even better.

[Swill]

Keep the faith buddy. I did around 4 cycles before I considered myself "recovered" - this may be of some interest to you, but some better were better than others, especially on the sexual front. So maybe timing with your bodies' current state of homeostasis was just off. The next run could be even better.

Thanks for that man. Reassuring to hear.

Absolutely. It could have been the 4-Andro not agreeing with me, it could have been i was on a downswing, or a combination of a variety of things.

The instant effect on the first cycle was pretty awesome, and there is every chance it will be just that when I go again in a month or so.

I tell people on here to keep level when riding the highs and the lows and that's exactly what I'm doing. Excited to go again in a month or so :-)


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[biatch]

Any news?

[Maxout777]

Any news?

Two or three posts above he stated that he abandoned the cycle. So I'm assuming he's back herb cycling until he runs another R-Andro Rx run.

[Swill]

Correct, just getting ready to hit R Andro solo again in a couple of weeks, and herb cycling. I have been working a lot on mobility and cardio and am starting to get the better of my long term back muscle issues... made my competitive soccer comeback last week and it went very well, so am on a high from that.

My sexual sides are so-so but Im looking forward to hitting this next cycle hard with far fewer injury issues so I can really hit the training hard, excited to see where it takes me.

[biatch]

Correct, just getting ready to hit R Andro solo again in a couple of weeks, and herb cycling. I have been working a lot on mobility and cardio and am starting to get the better of my long term back muscle issues... made my competitive soccer comeback last week and it went very well, so am on a high from that.

My sexual sides are so-so but Im looking forward to hitting this next cycle hard with far fewer injury issues so I can really hit the training hard, excited to see where it takes me.

Cool.
I though you were already running the R andro solo but I was wrong.
Let us know..!!)))