To ketosis or not to ketosis?

[Ridd]

I've seen some people say it's good and others bad. For PFS, I haven't heard a lot, but I know a lot of you backload carbs at night.

I've been hopping in and out of ketosis on my restrictive diet so I thought I'd just get a good opinion on it once and for all.

what do you think about ketosis?

[Maxout777]

You need carbs in some form or another. Many of the supplements that are pushed here through the protocol are pro-metabolic, such as Super R Andro Rx, 5a-DHP, caffeine, even some of the herbal supplements. This requires you to get a pretty hefty backload in. If your carbs are not well stocked, your glycogen stores are run through by these supplements, and before you know it you are running on adrenaline.

So, in my opinion, keto is a terrible idea when trying to recover from PFS. For a normal person, who's trying to shred weight quickly, I can see it having it's place. Just not here.

[Snell1234]

You need carbs in some form or another. Many of the supplements that are pushed here through the protocol are pro-metabolic, such as Super R Andro Rx, 5a-DHP, caffeine, even some of the herbal supplements. This requires you to get a pretty hefty backload in. If your carbs are not well stocked, your glycogen stores are run through by these supplements, and before you know it you are running on adrenaline.

So, in my opinion, keto is a terrible idea when trying to recover from PFS. For a normal person, who's trying to shred weight quickly, I can see it having it's place. Just not here.

Which herbs do you think are pro metabolic?

[Maxout777]

Which herbs do you think are pro metabolic?

Off the top of my head, tongkat ali, he shou wu, rhodiola - mainly any potent T booster or thyroid surrogate herb seems to give me a very pro-metabolic feeling. Take this for what it is worth however, I have no studies to back this up nor do I care to find any, lol.

[Snell1234]

Off the top of my head, tongkat ali, he shou wu, rhodiola - mainly any potent T booster or thyroid surrogate herb seems to give me a very pro-metabolic feeling. Take this for what it is worth however, I have no studies to back this up nor do I care to find any, lol.

Thanks. I find pine pollen a bit this way too.

[Maxout777]

Thanks. I find pine pollen a bit this way too.

Yes, I would assume it is pro-metabolic too. The tincture gives me a very pro-metabolic feeling, more so than the powder.

[Snell1234]

Agreed. I find the pine pollen tincture super powerful. To the point now where I've had to give it a break. I had a good 6 week on it (not taking it every day, but more often than not). Hopefully the androsterone in it has replaced some of my missing 5ar enzymes!

[Maxout777]

It most likely has. It and R Andro are big helpers in this puzzle.

[Snell1234]

It most likely has. It and R Andro are big helpers in this puzzle.

Without being able to say yes I definitely feel that these enzymes have been replaced (as how would I know, it could just be the boost in test), I do have a good feeling that I've got some permanent benefits from it. Whilst on it, before it sort of started to drain me at the end, I was getting nocturnal erections and morning erections. Now I have had this before off and on I guess, but this felt more strong, more stable, more normal.

[jjbradley2211]

I have only been taking the powder but was about to change the tincture. Should I treat it like R-Andro and cycle it for a few weeks then switch back to the powder? Or is the tincture just something I should be supplementing every day?

[champstar]

I get this pro metabolic feeling from licorice root extract

[Snell1234]

I have only been taking the powder but was about to change the tincture. Should I treat it like R-Andro and cycle it for a few weeks then switch back to the powder? Or is the tincture just something I should be supplementing every day?

Others can advise re the cycling of the tincture, but you still take the powder every day even when taking the tincture.

[Ridd]

i got me some licorice root powder and I have to say, I pretty quickly felt shitty from it. aches all over my body and I was exhausted, hopefully I bounce back even stronger like you champstar. I think there's seriously something to the recoveries that involve 5ar inhibs based on the research i've seen.

in fact there's a few accutane recoveries based around a prominent doctor prescribing finasteride, of all things, to help victims- which we should all know has a similar MoA. I'll link if anyones interested when I get the time. this guy has written a whole book on it apparently.

[TubZy]

I get this pro metabolic feeling from licorice root extract

Licorice isn't pro metabolic quite the opposite effect actually, the metabolic stimulative type "feeling" you could be feeling is from the rise in cortisol most likely.

[TubZy]

On the keto side, stay away whether you are in PFS or not. I used to be in deep ketosis, and it is not the way to go either short term or long term. Although short term may be okay for weight loss purposes, the Eskimos who at a primarily meat and fat diet (keto) aged significantly faster particularly in the connective tissues due to the constant increase in cortisol (which would maintain blood sugar).

[The battler]

Hey tubzy what about if I am running a probiotic course, in which it is advised to not eat carbs?
I notice that i bloat a lot whenever I take a probiotic tablet and eat carbs.

[Sploicers]

i got me some licorice root powder and I have to say, I pretty quickly felt shitty from it. aches all over my body and I was exhausted, hopefully I bounce back even stronger like you champstar. I think there's seriously something to the recoveries that involve 5ar inhibs based on the research i've seen.

in fact there's a few accutane recoveries based around a prominent doctor prescribing finasteride, of all things, to help victims- which we should all know has a similar MoA. I'll link if anyones interested when I get the time. this guy has written a whole book on it apparently.

Let me know how you feel in a couple days Ridd. Ive seriously looked into doing something similar. How much did you take?

[TubZy]

Hey tubzy what about if I am running a probiotic course, in which it is advised to not eat carbs?
I notice that i bloat a lot whenever I take a probiotic tablet and eat carbs.

Most likely inflammation and serotonin. Try taking a serotonin antagonist when you eat carbs like caffeine, lysine, niacinamide etc. It should kill the bloat.

[Ridd]

Let me know how you feel in a couple days Ridd. Ive seriously looked into doing something similar. How much did you take?

I think I would've done much better if I wasn't an idiot and sent myself on a mini crash because of the part last week that I talked about. I've been feeling like absolute shit these last fews days lol.
I believe that we can take small amounts of 5ar inhibs as long as we are in good health and not be affected as much, but with everything we do, it's all mostly a gamble.
I took a regular serving size, maybe 1/4 tsp?

Additionally, what kind of carbs would you all recommend if I've been hypoglycemic for a while now? It seems impossible to keep my blood sugar under control as the smallest amount of carbs can spike it, which is why I've almost completely removed them, but I've been introducing fruit and some sweet potatoes back recently.

- - - Updated - - -

and additionally, how many carbs should I shoot for? I'd ideally like the minimum that I could eat without depleting my glycogen stores so I don't ruin my blood sugar like I have been. I'm reading 100g + a day. thoughts?

[champstar]

i got me some licorice root powder and I have to say, I pretty quickly felt shitty from it. aches all over my body and I was exhausted, hopefully I bounce back even stronger like you champstar. I think there's seriously something to the recoveries that involve 5ar inhibs based on the research i've seen.

in fact there's a few accutane recoveries based around a prominent doctor prescribing finasteride, of all things, to help victims- which we should all know has a similar MoA. I'll link if anyones interested when I get the time. this guy has written a whole book on it apparently.

Nice, guys. Yes I experienced what you're feeling the first couple of times. But when I started taking it two days in a row it went away. Like I said before I don't think licorice root extract acts as a 5ar inhibitor. In my thread I quoted and linked a study saying that it increase 5ar in vivo through an unknown mechanism. When I was still struggling I would never have tried something I thought was a strong 5ar inhibitor.

[champstar]

Licorice isn't pro metabolic quite the opposite effect actually, the metabolic stimulative type "feeling" you could be feeling is from the rise in cortisol most likely.

Interesting! Is the good feeling I get from coffee a pro metabolic effect?

[Ridd]

Nice, guys. Yes I experienced what you're feeling the first couple of times. But when I started taking it two days in a row it went away. Like I said before I don't think licorice root extract acts as a 5ar inhibitor. In my thread I quoted and linked a study saying that it increase 5ar in vivo through an unknown mechanism. When I was still struggling I would never have tried something I thought was a strong 5ar inhibitor.

i'll heal up and try again. I have read a lot about it being a 5 ar inhibitor, and then other studies saying they aren't sure. logically, it would make sense if it has some sort of communication with 5ar and DHT. The theory I have heard is that it revitalizes broken pathways that may have been burnt out from our overuse of 5ar inhibs. but this is all speculation of course. I definitely felt a strong affect from licorice root.

champ, did you start feeling better the same day you would take licorice root or did it often take a few days when you got warmed up to it?

[Holistic]

I am a bit confused. So we need carbs but only when backloading? Or can we eat small portions of carbs in our day meals ie. Small portion of carbs with the protein and veggs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ridd]

I am a bit confused. So we need carbs but only when backloading? Or can we eat small portions of carbs in our day meals ie. Small portion of carbs with the protein and veggs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it's my experience that if I eat some carbs with a full meal (with protein and veges) then the potential spike in blood sugar gets mitigated a bit. but I still try to keep it small. at night, apparently it's better/easier? to load up on carbs as your body will use it more efficiently, but I haven't experimented with this much.

[Holistic]

I will just stick to paleo- carbload at nights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

yah I did keto for like a month after I crashed cuz of recoveries of Mitch and Chi and English who all went zero sugar.

I got like 10% improvement from adding carbackloading. carbs are huge for T production.

[Benq123]

You need carbs in some form or another. Many of the supplements that are pushed here through the protocol are pro-metabolic, such as Super R Andro Rx, 5a-DHP, caffeine, even some of the herbal supplements. This requires you to get a pretty hefty backload in. If your carbs are not well stocked, your glycogen stores are run through by these supplements, and before you know it you are running on adrenaline.

So, in my opinion, keto is a terrible idea when trying to recover from PFS. For a normal person, who's trying to shred weight quickly, I can see it having it's place. Just not here.

Out of interest, how many grams of carbs did you get per day roughly? 100, 200?
Also did you stick to only strict paleo carbs such as starchy veg or did you also eat some grains and legumes?

[Cdsnuts]

Out of interest, how many grams of carbs did you get per day roughly? 100, 200?
Also did you stick to only strict paleo carbs such as starchy veg or did you also eat some grains and legumes?

I always got the best results from having all my carbs at night in the form of a backload. Anywhere from 200-400 grams of carbs on workout days only.

Sometime I would have carbs on non workout days, at night, but the amount would be much, much lower. If you wake up jiggly and bloated, you over did it.

[Benq123]

Ah ok thank you

[biatch]

So what could be the "best" carb loading? Potatoes and what else?

[Maxout777]

So what could be the "best" carb loading? Potatoes and what else?

Rice, sweet potatoes, gluten free granola mixes (there's plenty), fruit juices (organic, fresh squeezed).

[biatch]

Rice, sweet potatoes, gluten free granola mixes (there's plenty), fruit juices (organic, fresh squeezed).
Thanks, are you still doing weel?
By the way still cycling herbs or you quitted it?

[Maxout777]

Thanks, are you still doing weel?
By the way still cycling herbs or you quitted it?Really? It's getting exhausting getting asked this every time I post.

Yes, I'm doing well. Yes, I continue living my lifestyle I've been living. Do I take herbs on my long business trips, no. Does my dick fall off or quit working or my brain fog come back, no. Do I drink alcohol again, yes. Does it cause me to fall back into PFS, no. Did I cover it all for you?

[biatch]

Really? It's getting exhausting getting asked this every time I post.

Yes, I'm doing well. Yes, I continue living my lifestyle I've been living. Do I take herbs on my long business trips, no. Does my dick fall off or quit working or my brain fog come back, no. Do I drink alcohol again, yes. Does it cause me to fall back into PFS, no. Did I cover it all for you?
Yes, you did cover it all, thank you...
You know, I guess you are right by getting annoyed, but we are on a forum where people has lost their life, so I guess you could understand and patience of understanding simple questions would be fine anyway for you, you are recovered.
But thanks to cover my question it all, very happy for you!
........And I do not know if other people asked you the same before, so sorry to bother it was not my intention at all, it was a spontaneous question coming out....keep it cool!LOL

[rahaysa]

Yes, you did cover it all, thank you...
You know, I guess you are right by getting annoyed, but we are on a forum where people has lost their life, so I guess you could understand and patience of understanding simple questions would be fine anyway for you, you are recovered.
But thanks to cover my question it all, very happy for you!
........And I do not know if other people asked you the same before, so sorry to bother it was not my intention at all, it was a spontaneous question coming out....keep it cool!LOL

Biatch.. i understand you... i feel like asking the same question time and again to guys who have recovered .. but i choose to keep silent .. beacuse i know the answer and its just that our insecurities make us ask those questions ..

i think its just that we need to get to the point of equilibrium of good health post that ... our health will be as it was pre fin ... getting there is bit difficult ...
for example ... till like last december (2016) my semen was not consistent , it used to come out good some times and bad sometimes .. but as i mentioned in my other post ... now its consistent for six months ... i think i hit the equlibrium for semen probably in last three months ... even if i dont take the herbs i get the same quality in semen ...

but thats not the case with my libido or erectile strength .. they still fluctuate with the intake of herbs and vice versa ...

so if at some point we recover and stay that way for some time id ont think we will go back to PFS state unless we do something similar to consuming propecia ...

[biatch]

Biatch.. i understand you... i feel like asking the same question time and again to guys who have recovered .. but i choose to keep silent .. beacuse i know the answer and its just that our insecurities make us ask those questions ..

i think its just that we need to get to the point of equilibrium of good health post that ... our health will be as it was pre fin ... getting there is bit difficult ...
for example ... till like last december (2016) my semen was not consistent , it used to come out good some times and bad sometimes .. but as i mentioned in my other post ... now its consistent for six months ... i think i hit the equlibrium for semen probably in last three months ... even if i dont take the herbs i get the same quality in semen ...

but thats not the case with my libido or erectile strength .. they still fluctuate with the intake of herbs and vice versa ...

so if at some point we recover and stay that way for some time id ont think we will go back to PFS state unless we do something similar to consuming propecia ...

Agree with you...it was just a spontaneus question, will never repeat this ERROR again, primise)))!!!LOL
...Congrats for your sperm by the way)))

[Maxout777]

Yes, you did cover it all, thank you...
You know, I guess you are right by getting annoyed, but we are on a forum where people has lost their life, so I guess you could understand and patience of understanding simple questions would be fine anyway for you, you are recovered.
But thanks to cover my question it all, very happy for you!
........And I do not know if other people asked you the same before, so sorry to bother it was not my intention at all, it was a spontaneous question coming out....keep it cool!LOLI'm sorry, did I not lose my life too? Did I not have issues as well.......quit expecting pity from people. We've all been there. And it's not the issue of them not being "simple questions" it's the fact that they are the same questions ad nauseum looking for some sort of different answer. The attitude of your posts shows that you've yet to let go of the victim mentality that will keep bringing you down over and over again. If you're looking for help, I'm here for you all day long. If you're looking for sympathy, from someone who still deals with PTSD after going through PFS hell, keep looking pal.

[Snell1234]

I'm sorry, did I not lose my life too? Did I not have issues as well.......quit expecting pity from people. We've all been there. And it's not the issue of them not being "simple questions" it's the fact that they are the same questions ad nauseum looking for some sort of different answer. The attitude of your posts shows that you've yet to let go of the victim mentality that will keep bringing you down over and over again. If you're looking for help, I'm here for you all day long. If you're looking for sympathy, from someone who still deals with PTSD after going through PFS hell, keep looking pal.

Slightly off topic, but did going through pfs and then ultimately beating it help you with the ptsd? I always thought that after this, no problem in my life will actually mean anything any more. I'm also appreciative of what your ptsd relates to and is something I and probably most others have never experienced.

[Maxout777]

Slightly off topic, but did going through pfs and then ultimately beating it help you with the ptsd? I always thought that after this, no problem in my life will actually mean anything any more. I'm also appreciative of what your ptsd relates to and is something I and probably most others have never experienced.It's definitely helped, but there's somethings that will most likely be with me forever. I've gotten to the point where it's just a part of me and it doesn't really affect me too bad anymore.

[biatch]

well, when I had my dick working and libido till 10 months ago I was just fucking so many pussies all around my city and the world, mostly russian (the best in my opinion)...stress? well, i had life stress, but not any PFS stress at all...I guess you need time to forget about this mess and you will be fine by time.

[TubZy]

well, when I had my dick working and libido till 10 months ago I was just fucking so many pussies all around my city and the world, mostly russian (the best in my opinion)...stress? well, i had life stress, but not any PFS stress at all...I guess you need time to forget about this mess and you will be fine by time.

10 months is like nothing most people here it has been multiple years.

[biatch]

10 months is like nothing most people here it has been multiple years.
You didnt get me....
I had PFS from 2005 by time got better an start fucking pussies, from 10 mouths I am fuked up again cause I used Androstenolone and have ED again.

[Maxout777]

well, when I had my dick working and libido till 10 months ago I was just fucking so many pussies all around my city and the world, mostly russian (the best in my opinion)...stress? well, i had life stress, but not any PFS stress at all...I guess you need time to forget about this mess and you will be fine by time.Yeah my PTSD isn't related to PFS if that's what you're meaning. But yeah, it definitely gets better as time goes on. I think that's a true statement with just about anything.

[jacknap]

It's definitely helped, but there's somethings that will most likely be with me forever. I've gotten to the point where it's just a part of me and it doesn't really affect me too bad anymore.

do your own research on this but I think I had a type of ptsd before as well. Magic Mushrooms cured it for me. It essentially made me relieve the traumatic experiences like 10 000 times and then it vanquished. Though I felt like I was in hell during the trip... not for the faint of heart and especially not if u have any psychosis in your family cause it can make people full on schizo.

[Master Mal]

do your own research on this but I think I had a type of ptsd before as well. Magic Mushrooms cured it for me. It essentially made me relieve the traumatic experiences like 10 000 times and then it vanquished. Though I felt like I was in hell during the trip... not for the faint of heart and especially not if u have any psychosis in your family cause it can make people full on schizo.

Well... that's a helluva sales pitch.

[Cdsnuts]

do your own research on this but I think I had a type of ptsd before as well. Magic Mushrooms cured it for me. It essentially made me relieve the traumatic experiences like 10 000 times and then it vanquished. Though I felt like I was in hell during the trip... not for the faint of heart and especially not if u have any psychosis in your family cause it can make people full on schizo.Interesting. I've read about them being used to cure migraines as well. Although at micro doses.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

yeah there's a lot of theories that it actually grows new brain cells and rewires the brain. Joe Rogan has a lot of interesting things to say about it.

for instance magic mushrooms tend to grow where humans are. Almost as if they're trying to get us to ingest them. It definitely feels like there's an entity inside me the times I've used it. I've done 3.5 grams, 1.5grams 2x, and 7grams.

heroic doses feel like I was transported to other dimensions, as fucked as it sounds anyone who has done +5grams can attest to this.

heroic dose trips can induce ptsd in themselves because a 5 hour trip can feel like eternity. it hijacks the brains sense of time and destroys the ego.

there's a bunch of tedtalks researching how it can cure depression, ptsd, just from a monodose though.

magic mushrooms are often referred to as the humans of the fungi kingdom.

[TubZy]

yeah there's a lot of theories that it actually grows new brain cells and rewires the brain. Joe Rogan has a lot of interesting things to say about it.

for instance magic mushrooms tend to grow where humans are. Almost as if they're trying to get us to ingest them. It definitely feels like there's an entity inside me the times I've used it. I've done 3.5 grams, 1.5grams 2x, and 7grams.

heroic doses feel like I was transported to other dimensions, as fucked as it sounds anyone who has done +5grams can attest to this.

heroic dose trips can induce ptsd in themselves because a 5 hour trip can feel like eternity. it hijacks the brains sense of time and destroys the ego.

there's a bunch of tedtalks researching how it can cure depression, ptsd, just from a monodose though.

magic mushrooms are often referred to as the humans of the fungi kingdom.

LSD is better, I posted on it before, Steve Jobs used to microdose it and many Silicon Valley tech people use it.

Also, for PTSD, MDMA is being used a lot of as well with success. You can google it and check it out but it has been working surprisingly well.

[Cdsnuts]

LSD is better, I posted on it before, Steve Jobs used to microdose it and many Silicon Valley tech people use it.

Also, for PTSD, MDMA is being used a lot of as well with success. You can google it and check it out but it has been working surprisingly well.Funny enough I just rolled a month-and-a-half ago and the come down was so horrific I'll never be doing that again... I can't see how they can mitigate the come down despite any positives it may have

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Durantia37]

Well... that's a helluva sales pitch.

That's what I was gonna say lol.

[jacknap]

Well... that's a helluva sales pitch.

pm me for shrooms. jks not gunna touch that till I recover at least cause I used LSD before I crashed as well and it definitely didn't help my cause lol.

[champstar]

I get this pro metabolic feeling from licorice root extract

Hey I posted about licorice in this thread a long time ago. Don't ever take licorice root. I overemphasized the effect licorice root had when I got similar pronounced fluctuations at other times in my journey. I think I recovered mainly from living healthily and fluctuations in androgenic activity that eventually made me get better. Hang in there. Licorice root can be pretty bad because it can raise blood pressure and doesn't seem good for you in many ways. I would never take it and just focus on the healthy protocol. Hang in there everybody.