More information on the safety profile of DHT prohormones (regards suppression)

[Maxout777]

On the role of dihydrotestosterone in regulating luteinizing hormone secretion in man. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6106650)

From this study, it shows that DHT supplementation (and this is direct DHT, even "theoretically" more suppressive than a pro-hormone) has little affect on LH (luteinizing hormone) in males. This study had individuals with 8-10 times the normal plasma DHT level for three months, with little to no change in LH values.

Thought this info could be helpful to those here concerned with "suppressing themselves again" or "crashing their T" with the prohormones suggested here.

[Sploicers]

Appreciate the read maxout!

[Maxout777]

Probably should've posted this in the sticky, but hopefully people still see it here.

[TubZy]

I've seen this study as well, that is my point about people freaking out after one week on 100mg of R-andro claiming shutdown, when their test levels are already high. The "protective" steroids/hormones your body likes, hence you can add more exogenously while not inhibiting the HPTA or very minimally while estrogen on the other hand is VERY suppressive since it is damaging and not protective.

[K8668B]

This could never shut someone down. It seems so mild, yet so perfect at the same time. I have PFS... i am ALREADY SHUT DOWN. Lmao! Who cares at this point lol. And if it takes something like this to help me cure myself of PFS, along with everything else, then im gonna fucking do it! It would also be sweet to add 20-35 lbs to my benchpress 1RM too

[Durantia37]

Couldn't you just continue taking low doses of R-Andro indefinitely then, during recovery? Or at least for really long-ass periods of time?

[Maxout777]

Couldn't you just continue taking low doses of R-Andro indefinitely then, during recovery? Or at least for really long-ass periods of time?

Yes, theoretically from a suppression standpoint you can. However, running the most potent male hormone, DHT, with it's potent anti estrogen properties, at 8-10 times normal levels for an extended (3+ months) would probably be taxing on the body. I know after about six to eight weeks, I start feeling a little taxed. Or I have in the past. Now running with 4 Andro, it's probably due to that.....so I can't speak for running it longer currently.

[Durantia37]

Yeah, I guess crushing estrogen would be the big concern in that situation. I was just thinking how bad-ass it would be PFS-wise to take 100mg each day for months and months. Oh well.

Still good to know how un-suppressive it is, thanks for the study.

[Snell1234]

I've seen this study as well, that is my point about people freaking out after one week on 100mg of R-andro claiming shutdown, when their test levels are already high. The "protective" steroids/hormones your body likes, hence you can add more exogenously while not inhibiting the HPTA or very minimally while estrogen on the other hand is VERY suppressive since it is damaging and not protective.

On this note, I noticed towards the end of my first bottle of the pine pollen tincture that I was starting to get pains in my calf and legs. Sort of a burning, stabbing sort of pain that would come off and on, and more on towards the end. Is this due to estrogen or could it be something to do with the thyroid?

Either way, is this the sign of anything serious for when I go again with the tincture and then the prohormones? I'm fine if its thyroid or anything like that. Just don't want to leave myself open to any blot clotting issues if it were estrogen or any other damage if it were estrogen.

[Maxout777]

Yeah, I guess crushing estrogen would be the big concern in that situation. I was just thinking how bad-ass it would be PFS-wise to take 100mg each day for months and months. Oh well.

Still good to know how un-suppressive it is, thanks for the study.

A long, low dose cycle might not be a bad idea. You'd be forging new territory with the experiment, but the science is there.

[K8668B]

A long, low dose cycle might not be a bad idea. You'd be forging new territory with the experiment, but the science is there.

Hmmm.... I might consider this, given my individual situation with PFS. I would maybe be the guinea pig. At the same time though, i wouldnt want to go off course either. I would ask cdnuts's opinion before i do something like that though. It could be really good, or could be really bad. You never know.

Ill see when i get there. Not going to overthink it too much right now, or else i would give myself a headache. One day at a time.

[Durantia37]

A long, low dose cycle might not be a bad idea. You'd be forging new territory with the experiment, but the science is there.

I'll keep it in mind as a possibility, but I've been doing amazingly well lately and don't want to try anything new for awhile.

[Snell1234]

I'll keep it in mind as a possibility, but I've been doing amazingly well lately and don't want to try anything new for awhile.

So your baseline has improved even more in the last couple of weeks after your last update?

[TubZy]

On this note, I noticed towards the end of my first bottle of the pine pollen tincture that I was starting to get pains in my calf and legs. Sort of a burning, stabbing sort of pain that would come off and on, and more on towards the end. Is this due to estrogen or could it be something to do with the thyroid?

Either way, is this the sign of anything serious for when I go again with the tincture and then the prohormones? I'm fine if its thyroid or anything like that. Just don't want to leave myself open to any blot clotting issues if it were estrogen or any other damage if it were estrogen.

That doesn't sound anything estrogen or thyroid related. Are you taking aspirin at all?

If it was the tincture it could be allergenic related as well since histamine can cause reactions. I personally can't use the tincture due to allergies and too much of the powder to an extent causes almost the same allergenic symptoms. If you also get the same feeling from R andro it could be from blood thinning, but shouldn't be that severe.

If it doesn't go away, try supplementing with some K2.

[TubZy]

Yeah, I guess crushing estrogen would be the big concern in that situation. I was just thinking how bad-ass it would be PFS-wise to take 100mg each day for months and months. Oh well.

Still good to know how un-suppressive it is, thanks for the study.

Not bad at all, there is a study on women using at least 150mg a day of androsterone with zero shut down on the HPTA. Crushing estrogen doesn't cause symptoms of aching/shrinking testes like shut down would, which is what most people who were taking R andro was saying as a side effect.

Also, you need to remember that androsterone isn't DHT, majority of it converts to DHT but it can also convert to other hormones/neurosteroids and acts as a neurosteroid itself. That is the difference between supplementing with pure DHT and androsterone, pure DHT lacks the latter effects to an extent, which is why it helps with PFS.

[Snell1234]

I don't think there's anything allergenic related as I didn't get this until towards the end of my go on it (around the 6 week mark).

Not taking aspirin at all. Interesting you mention the blood thinning. I've always had platelets on the low side my whole life. Could something in the tincture be causing my blood to thin?

Either way, with whatever it is, is it a symptom I need to watch or is it nothing significant at all? My worry was that it could be estrogen related and I didn't want to do anything that could cause a risk for blood clots.

[Durantia37]

So your baseline has improved even more in the last couple of weeks after your last update?

Yeah dude, It's gotten even better.

[Snell1234]

Yeah dude, It's gotten even better.

Amazing news. Very encouraging for everyone else too.

[The battler]

How's the testicular shrinkage getting along? I remember that we both had it before your andro cycle.

[Durantia37]

How's the testicular shrinkage getting along? I remember that we both had it before your andro cycle.

This isn't a very creative answer, but: it's still there, but it's a lot better.

For the last five days or so, I've been very close to 100% in every category (maybe just like 65% sexually, though). Mentally, physically, and digestively, I feel like I'm almost in the clear - maybe a couple more cycles to get a solid 100% in those categories. If the prohormones continue to work this well, I can't see how I wouldn't be fully recovered by like Jan/Feb.

[Durantia37]

Something else I didn't want to leave out: post-cycle, I made a few changes to my routine as well. I do the daily niacinamide/aspirin/caffeine combo (sometimes twice daily), and I started upping my overall carb intake (lots of orange juice, fruit, potatoes, etc.).

Early on in the game, these things might be a bad idea (caffeine screwing up adrenals, carbs contributting to SIBO), but later on they're really useful.

[Snell1234]

Something else I didn't want to leave out: post-cycle, I made a few changes to my routine as well. I do the daily niacinamide/aspirin/caffeine combo (sometimes twice daily), and I started upping my overall carb intake (lots of orange juice, fruit, potatoes, etc.).

Early on in the game, these things might be a bad idea (caffeine screwing up adrenals, carbs contributting to SIBO), but later on they're really useful.
I agree re the carbs. I'm way better the more carbs I have.