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View Full Version : Important read for everyone- English's recovery and the placebo effect



Ridd
08-10-2017, 04:42 PM
The last few weeks I've been in a rut. I haven't been making much progress and my energy has been shot down by a light crash that I had recently. I want to share something very important that I found in English's recovery that I didn't see here but that I found on his original PH recovery post.

When I get in these ruts, sometimes I can "forum scavenge" and spend a ridiculous amount of time searching forums, reading experiences, trying to find more of what "works" just like many of you here. We're always trying to find things to add to our regiment so we get recovered quicker, but I truly believe we have everything in our own bodies. The supplements are just to help, not to cure.

Yesterday, on my day off, I spent most of my free time just scavenging for more tools to get better. It's obsessive and unhealthy to be honest. I'd research and get wrapped up for hours just trying to find out more about what I'm missing. it shows that I don't always fully believe in the recovery protocol that we have before us.

Now why is it so important to believe? Having this positive reinforcement is obviously important, but why?

English posted a book that should serve as our holy bible: You Are The Placebo. This book explains many things, and if you don't have the commitment to read the whole book right now (I haven't finished but I've already watched tons of videos and lectures by the same author-) you should dive into some of his talks. Here's a good intro to it: Dr Joe Dispenza- TED Talks with Dr Joe Dispenza - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W81CHn4l4AM)

I'll pull out a few points that we should all remember: A lot of us already do this stuff, but it is SO SO SO important to be reminded of this stuff every time we stray from our path of recovery.

Many of you, like myself, are very analytical, I believe, just like english, that many of us have a tendency to overthink, to over analyze our situations and dwell. To be negative. I know that is my experience and english believes that this is the single biggest obstacle to recovery. English believes that fin/sp/whatever helped put us here, but ultimately, it was our own beliefs that keep us here.

Dr Spinoza who authored You Are The Placebo, points out that people given sugar pills in many circumstances, will recover from many diseases. One in particular that I remember is that the recovery rate from people using Anti-depressants's vs placebo is the same. People are getting better just by believing that they taking something that makes them better. Anti depressants aren't any more effective in treating depression than a fucking sugar pill, but they both work very well. What do most of us have in common?


conversely he mentions that people getting treated for cancer with a chemo-placebo will start believing that they are experiencing chemo-affects- their hair will start falling out, they'll lose weight and become weak.

In the video I linked, he explains how our habits, our negative thought processes and fixations can and will become reality simply IF WE BELIEVE IT. this kind of stuff is backed by much research and it really shows that the mind is the ultimate tool to our recovery here. I always thought it was interesting, out of the many recovery stories I've read, a lot of them claimed faith in god curing them had cured them. the funny thing is, god did cure these people, essentially. I'm atheist, but I believe in science, and I believe that there is indisputable evidence that simply by believing we are recovering and keeping up this positive reinforcement, we will recover. A lot of the time it doesn't matter what it is that you think is making you better, as long as you believe it. and if you're like me and you have had a negative leaning attitude for years, then shifting our mind will take much work to break these habits that have been reinforced for perhaps most of our lives.

I always think about how PFS sufferers have such high rates of depression, and I truly don't believe that I know a single person with this who hasn't been depressed. Part of this is physiological, but as anyone with depression knows, depression is largely a mental condition that you can actively get yourself out of. I have done it before, I have been plagued by years of depression from negativity and I got out of it after struggling since I was 12-13 years old just by surrounding myself with positivity and not focusing on my depression. But saw palmetto has put me back here, and it's pretty understandable for any of us to be depressed or negatively leaning, but I think that depression/negativity is what is making us deteriorate. Even if you don't think you have depression, simply by giving into the negative habits that many of us have neurally written into our minds is damaging us.

English believes that 90% of PFS is mental. We have all the tools to recover and I know it's kind of ironic to hear what doctors have been telling us. It's in our heads. Not exactly in the way they know it. however I think that what we all have in common is that we believe we have this disease that we have told ourselves is permanent. I believe that we have been brought out of hormonal balance and simply by getting out of our negative states, by focusing on this positive reinforcement and reshaping the way our brain fires we can recover. This isn't just my opinion, but a fact that neuroscientists have proven countless times. You are what you believe.

You can't just fucking think "I'm recovered" and it'll happen. But after months or maybe years for some of us of doing this, even if you're faking it at first, your brain will rewire itself and rewire your reality. As Dr Dispenza says, your reality is what you believe. That's why meditation is so important in this, because it gives you the tools to reshape and rest your brain.

How many of you truly go into the protocol with everything you have, every single day, knowing that even though we may not be at 100% physiologically this moment, that recovery for ALL OF US is inevitable simply by believing it, rewiring our reality and giving our body what it needs?

I know I haven't been 100% committed these last few weeks, and my lack of progress shows. No more wallowing, no more giving in to depression and negativity. We only have positive rewiring towards recovery holding us back. That is a fact. Why do you think all of these negative people in other forums aren't getting anything to show for progress? They literally don't believe many people who say they recover. that is some powerful projection right there- they are voicing their own negativity and their own frame of mind of never actually believing that they will recover.

This has all been said before, but I really felt the need to reiterate. You will recover. You must believe it.

Here's english's story someone copied over to solvepfs: (different than what is posted on this site) SolvePFS Login (http://www.solvepfs.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=723)

jacknap
08-10-2017, 05:08 PM
I don't totally subscribe to it mostly being mental but mental plays a role for sure.

I was chatting with a dude about this and he helped me get reassurance for one night that it wasn't permanent and I actually slept pretty normal that night

might have been a coincidence though or some other supplement I took. not sure.

I think PFS also hits everyone a little bit different. A lot of old health gurus from ancient india, greece,china etc. said that illness strikes your weakest point in your system.
for some it's the brain, others adrenals, others liver, gut etc.

treating everything holistically though is smart because each organ strengthens the other though

Ridd
08-10-2017, 10:00 PM
Definitely agree with the weakest part thing.

It's funny you mention the good nights sleep after talking with someone telling you it isn't permenant. I've experienced the exact same thing. Some of the only thing to get me through crashes is talking with close ones.

Im not denying a very real physical/physiological connection here, but I'm saying that the only real way to fix ourselves ultimately comes down to mental health just as importantly as physical, they both rely on each other to be in balance.

most men (according to studies and in most of our experiences) have mental health issues here, and we have to fix this anxiety and depression COMPLETELY to recover.

Maxout777
08-10-2017, 10:16 PM
Definitely agree with the weakest part thing.

It's funny you mention the good nights sleep after talking with someone telling you it isn't permenant. I've experienced the exact same thing. Some of the only thing to get me through crashes is talking with close ones.

Im not denying a very real physical/physiological connection here, but I'm saying that the only real way to fix ourselves ultimately comes down to mental health just as importantly as physical, they both rely on each other to be in balance.

most men (according to studies and in most of our experiences) have mental health issues here, and we have to fix this anxiety and depression COMPLETELY to recover.

While I definitely think mindset and mental state has a lot to do with it, I don't believe you can recover entirely by doing mindset alone, or be inhibited from recovery based on mental state. While I'm a pretty positive, forward thinking person, I still suffer from PTSD and I'm a little fucked in the head if I'm being honest. I still recovered with or without my mental health being 100%. Just food for thought.

Meegs
08-11-2017, 09:30 AM
Yeah I personally don't buy that PFS is 90% mental. Maybe for some it is. Now, I do believe in CDs protocol and having a positive mindset is important to recovery, but don't buy at all that PFS symptoms are 90% mental or somehow fabricated in the mind.

Again, I know that I can recover with CDs protocol and am a very positive person, but just dont agree here.

Durantia37
08-11-2017, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I think it's like 5-10% mental at most.

Cdsnuts
08-11-2017, 06:10 PM
The last few weeks I've been in a rut. I haven't been making much progress and my energy has been shot down by a light crash that I had recently. I want to share something very important that I found in English's recovery that I didn't see here but that I found on his original PH recovery post.

When I get in these ruts, sometimes I can "forum scavenge" and spend a ridiculous amount of time searching forums, reading experiences, trying to find more of what "works" just like many of you here. We're always trying to find things to add to our regiment so we get recovered quicker, but I truly believe we have everything in our own bodies. The supplements are just to help, not to cure.

Yesterday, on my day off, I spent most of my free time just scavenging for more tools to get better. It's obsessive and unhealthy to be honest. I'd research and get wrapped up for hours just trying to find out more about what I'm missing. it shows that I don't always fully believe in the recovery protocol that we have before us.

Now why is it so important to believe? Having this positive reinforcement is obviously important, but why?

English posted a book that should serve as our holy bible: You Are The Placebo. This book explains many things, and if you don't have the commitment to read the whole book right now (I haven't finished but I've already watched tons of videos and lectures by the same author-) you should dive into some of his talks. Here's a good intro to it: Dr Joe Dispenza- TED Talks with Dr Joe Dispenza - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W81CHn4l4AM)

I'll pull out a few points that we should all remember: A lot of us already do this stuff, but it is SO SO SO important to be reminded of this stuff every time we stray from our path of recovery.

Many of you, like myself, are very analytical, I believe, just like english, that many of us have a tendency to overthink, to over analyze our situations and dwell. To be negative. I know that is my experience and english believes that this is the single biggest obstacle to recovery. English believes that fin/sp/whatever helped put us here, but ultimately, it was our own beliefs that keep us here.

Dr Spinoza who authored You Are The Placebo, points out that people given sugar pills in many circumstances, will recover from many diseases. One in particular that I remember is that the recovery rate from people using Anti-depressants's vs placebo is the same. People are getting better just by believing that they taking something that makes them better. Anti depressants aren't any more effective in treating depression than a fucking sugar pill, but they both work very well. What do most of us have in common?


conversely he mentions that people getting treated for cancer with a chemo-placebo will start believing that they are experiencing chemo-affects- their hair will start falling out, they'll lose weight and become weak.

In the video I linked, he explains how our habits, our negative thought processes and fixations can and will become reality simply IF WE BELIEVE IT. this kind of stuff is backed by much research and it really shows that the mind is the ultimate tool to our recovery here. I always thought it was interesting, out of the many recovery stories I've read, a lot of them claimed faith in god curing them had cured them. the funny thing is, god did cure these people, essentially. I'm atheist, but I believe in science, and I believe that there is indisputable evidence that simply by believing we are recovering and keeping up this positive reinforcement, we will recover. A lot of the time it doesn't matter what it is that you think is making you better, as long as you believe it. and if you're like me and you have had a negative leaning attitude for years, then shifting our mind will take much work to break these habits that have been reinforced for perhaps most of our lives.

I always think about how PFS sufferers have such high rates of depression, and I truly don't believe that I know a single person with this who hasn't been depressed. Part of this is physiological, but as anyone with depression knows, depression is largely a mental condition that you can actively get yourself out of. I have done it before, I have been plagued by years of depression from negativity and I got out of it after struggling since I was 12-13 years old just by surrounding myself with positivity and not focusing on my depression. But saw palmetto has put me back here, and it's pretty understandable for any of us to be depressed or negatively leaning, but I think that depression/negativity is what is making us deteriorate. Even if you don't think you have depression, simply by giving into the negative habits that many of us have neurally written into our minds is damaging us.

English believes that 90% of PFS is mental. We have all the tools to recover and I know it's kind of ironic to hear what doctors have been telling us. It's in our heads. Not exactly in the way they know it. however I think that what we all have in common is that we believe we have this disease that we have told ourselves is permanent. I believe that we have been brought out of hormonal balance and simply by getting out of our negative states, by focusing on this positive reinforcement and reshaping the way our brain fires we can recover. This isn't just my opinion, but a fact that neuroscientists have proven countless times. You are what you believe.

You can't just fucking think "I'm recovered" and it'll happen. But after months or maybe years for some of us of doing this, even if you're faking it at first, your brain will rewire itself and rewire your reality. As Dr Dispenza says, your reality is what you believe. That's why meditation is so important in this, because it gives you the tools to reshape and rest your brain.

How many of you truly go into the protocol with everything you have, every single day, knowing that even though we may not be at 100% physiologically this moment, that recovery for ALL OF US is inevitable simply by believing it, rewiring our reality and giving our body what it needs?

I know I haven't been 100% committed these last few weeks, and my lack of progress shows. No more wallowing, no more giving in to depression and negativity. We only have positive rewiring towards recovery holding us back. That is a fact. Why do you think all of these negative people in other forums aren't getting anything to show for progress? They literally don't believe many people who say they recover. that is some powerful projection right there- they are voicing their own negativity and their own frame of mind of never actually believing that they will recover.

This has all been said before, but I really felt the need to reiterate. You will recover. You must believe it.

Here's english's story someone copied over to solvepfs: (different than what is posted on this site) SolvePFS Login (http://www.solvepfs.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=723)

This is why I constantly say to just "set it and forget it." You NEED to believe in this regimen. It will work regardless because you are simply following the laws of science and nature. Having the right mindset is basically the glue that holds this thing together. The mindset is what is going to keep you on the right path to recovery despite the constant ebb and flow of healing. It's what's going to keep you positive during the downswings and keep you level during the upswings. That being said, you're not going to recover with just the "glue" alone. You need to have all of the other parts in place for a complete and full recovery.

As long as you're doing everything that is laid out for you, you ARE going to recover eventually. Having the right mindset is what is going to keep you moving forward and stop you from second guessing every little thing.

And concerning the "forum scavenging".....you should stop doing it. I know you realize it is un-healthy, and that's good. Put your puzzle pieces together and just try and remain in the present moment at all times. When you feel this need arise...meditate. Breath. Take an ice cold shower. Center yourself.

Ridd
08-12-2017, 04:06 PM
This is why I constantly say to just "set it and forget it." You NEED to believe in this regimen. It will work regardless because you are simply following the laws of science and nature. Having the right mindset is basically the glue that holds this thing together. The mindset is what is going to keep you on the right path to recovery despite the constant ebb and flow of healing. It's what's going to keep you positive during the downswings and keep you level during the upswings. That being said, you're not going to recover with just the "glue" alone. You need to have all of the other parts in place for a complete and full recovery.

As long as you're doing everything that is laid out for you, you ARE going to recover eventually. Having the right mindset is what is going to keep you moving forward and stop you from second guessing every little thing.

And concerning the "forum scavenging".....you should stop doing it. I know you realize it is un-healthy, and that's good. Put your puzzle pieces together and just try and remain in the present moment at all times. When you feel this need arise...meditate. Breath. Take an ice cold shower. Center yourself.

exactly, I don't think the emphasis of really having the proper mentality is articulated enough. I don't think this thing is 90% mental like english says, but I do believe, like you do, that it's the glue here. We have the recipe for our big fucking recovery cake. we just gotta turn on the oven and cook this thing. there's a lot of people that don't realize how much your own thoughts and mindset will affect your entire body, your homeostasis and ultimately your recovery.

Sploicers
08-14-2017, 09:36 AM
Yeah I think a lot of people are not understanding fully what Ridd is actually saying. He isn't saying that the symptoms are just mental (as in we are making this up in our mind). I think he is pointing out that the placebo effect is very real and that by believing in something enough, it will happen. In this case, 100% believing in recovery can shape your mind into actually forcing you to recover.

Believing you can recover can actually physically change your mind into going back into the pre-PFS state. I remember back in the beginning of this I read that some people on SP got rashes. I started freaking out and guess what? Literally an hour later I got a huge rash on my forehead. The first time it ever happened. I laughed at how ridiculous it was and it vanished a few hours later. My mind gave me a fucking rash because it said online. That was a turning point for me in understanding exactly what the mind can do.

I also think that's what english was saying.

Cdsnuts
08-14-2017, 02:47 PM
Yeah I think a lot of people are not understanding fully what Ridd is actually saying. He isn't saying that the symptoms are just mental (as in we are making this up in our mind). I think he is pointing out that the placebo effect is very real and that by believing in something enough, it will happen. In this case, 100% believing in recovery can shape your mind into actually forcing you to recover.

Believing you can recover can actually physically change your mind into going back into the pre-PFS state. I remember back in the beginning of this I read that some people on SP got rashes. I started freaking out and guess what? Literally an hour later I got a huge rash on my forehead. The first time it ever happened. I laughed at how ridiculous it was and it vanished a few hours later. My mind gave me a fucking rash because it said online. That was a turning point for me in understanding exactly what the mind can do.

I also think that's what english was saying.

You are correct. We underestimate how powerful the mind is in this regards. This why places such as PH and SolvePFS are pits of negativity that perpetuate the negative mindset which is so detrimental to healing.

Ridd
08-15-2017, 09:50 AM
Yeah I think a lot of people are not understanding fully what Ridd is actually saying. He isn't saying that the symptoms are just mental (as in we are making this up in our mind). I think he is pointing out that the placebo effect is very real and that by believing in something enough, it will happen. In this case, 100% believing in recovery can shape your mind into actually forcing you to recover.

Believing you can recover can actually physically change your mind into going back into the pre-PFS state. I remember back in the beginning of this I read that some people on SP got rashes. I started freaking out and guess what? Literally an hour later I got a huge rash on my forehead. The first time it ever happened. I laughed at how ridiculous it was and it vanished a few hours later. My mind gave me a fucking rash because it said online. That was a turning point for me in understanding exactly what the mind can do.

I also think that's what english was saying.

this is EXACTLY what I'm saying. I'm happy you were able to pick that out and I think it's telling that others didn't actually see this. but then again I wrote a book and your paragraph is easier to interpret haha.


I never said PFS sides are in your head people. but, it is in fact in our head that an equal part of the remedy lies, along with the protocol. As CD says, your mind, your belief is the glue that will hold the protocol together. They both must be in harmony.

Sure, some people may recover with just physical changes while others may recover with just mental changes, but the fact is that your mind and your body will work together synergistically towards the quickest recovery. This absolutely needs to be emphasized repeatedly, especially as the overall "mood" of the forum has been gloomy lately.

Meegs
08-15-2017, 10:30 AM
I get the underlying message here, and I agree with it, but it just wasn't presented well in the opening post. Specifically, I take major exception to the comment below. I don't agree at all with doctors on this. This is what the medical establishment wants to portray as to say Fin doesn't cause these side effects. As a matter of fact, I have a whole different view on doctors (even ones with good intentions) after PFS hit me. I believe this is the case with most that have/had PFS.

"English believes that 90% of PFS is mental. We have all the tools to recover and I know it's kind of ironic to hear what doctors have been telling us. It's in our heads."

Ridd
08-15-2017, 10:53 AM
I get the underlying message here, and I agree with it, but it just wasn't presented well in the opening post. Specifically, I take major exception to the comment below. I don't agree at all with doctors on this. This is what the medical establishment wants to portray as to say Fin doesn't cause these side effects. As a matter of fact, I have a whole different view on doctors (even ones with good intentions) after PFS hit me. I believe this is the case with most that have/had PFS.

"English believes that 90% of PFS is mental. We have all the tools to recover and I know it's kind of ironic to hear what doctors have been telling us. It's in our heads."

sure I could have presented this in a way that was easier to interpret, but I tried to be as thorough as possible here. I don't want you to misconstrue and misunderstand what I said, I believe you are still not getting what I'm saying here if that's what you're choosing to focus on, and you're kind of proving my point here I hope you realize.

put the whole paragraph in context and you will see:

"English believes that 90% of PFS is mental. We have all the tools to recover and I know it's kind of ironic to hear what doctors have been telling us. It's in our heads. Not exactly in the way they know it. however I think that what we all have in common is that we believe we have this disease that we have told ourselves is permanent. I believe that we have been brought out of hormonal balance and simply by getting out of our negative states, by focusing on this positive reinforcement and reshaping the way our brain fires we can recover. This isn't just my opinion, but a fact that neuroscientists have proven countless times. You are what you believe."

I'm not attacking you or anyone, i'm not claiming that your sides are in your head. I believe all of our sides are very real. But I also believe that our very belief system can help or hinder us the very most in our recovery process.

Meegs
08-16-2017, 11:34 AM
There are several things in the opening post that I don't agree with personally, with PFS being 90% mental being #1 as I mentioned. I could go on, but don't want people to get the wrong impression of me.

Bottom line is that, as I stated a number of times, I understand the importance of the mind as it relates to recovery.

I have other things to focus on and this isn't a contest to me to try and prove a point. If you feel that you proved a point, I'm happy for you.

Wish you and everyone all the best. Now let's just get back to recovering.