Jacknap's Road To Vitality

[jacknap]

alright so I've been putting off making my own thread on this but ya summary

used anti-androgen RU58841 to prevent hair loss and thicken my thinning hair. Got sexual sides after one application so dumped it. Crashed a little over a month later.

wrote more details in 'introduce yourself' including my bloods.

today I used high dose pregnanalone 150mg. I find I get angrier at my parents a lot more easier when I go that high. They are very annoying people though even though I love them. Best dose for me seems to be like 60mg but playing around with it.

I've seen a lot of improvements and had almost every symptom in the book for PFS.

What remains

- Strange Head Pressure (kinda deep behind my right eye that NEVER goes away but was also on the left side of my at times but that went away)
- brain dick connection still kinda off and not at my previous sex drive but I've been able to fuck past 3 weeks consistently again. (was completely impotent)
- insomnia (I seem to wake up right at the last 33% stage of sleep, where I think the bulk of REM is so hopefully the ziziphus and glycine can help kick that into gear.) l-theanine has been helping me knock back that last 33%
- Water retention in face / dark eye circles(fucking suuuucks cause I had a great face and bone structure, the good news is girls still seem down to fuck as usual so I'm not gunna do anything risky to fuck up my health again to get it back, but would like to get my looks back sooner rather than later.)
- drive/competitiveness/killer instinct - I was a very type A personality, I guess still kinda am in a sense but just focusing all my energy on recovery.
- bruxism at times (I think lowered neurosteroids = less gaba/dopamine more prolactin/seratonin/estrogen/cortisol)

my bloods basically demonstrated

high cortisol, low free T, medium estrogen, high DHT, high prolactin, low LH, low FSH. (within range but bad side of range for everything)

this was like 6 weeks ago though and I'm doing much better, so I'd imagine there's some big improvements.

[jacknap]

during a fast what are some things that we can do ?

some ideas

1. holosync
2. watching comedys
3. some light yoga/stretching
4. nature walks
5. reading
6. learn more about fasting
7. spend time with good friends / talk on the phone
8. video games
9. meditation
10. plan / invision
11. make music / art / creative pursuits

any of the above no go's?

[Cdsnuts]

during a fast what are some things that we can do ?

some ideas

1. holosync
2. watching comedys
3. some light yoga/stretching
4. nature walks
5. reading
6. learn more about fasting
7. spend time with good friends / talk on the phone
8. video games
9. meditation
10. plan / invision
11. make music / art / creative pursuits

any of the above no go's?

All of these are fine. You can also research each and every aspect of the protocol so that you can understand why they are recommended. This is what Durantia did in the beginning and it helped put his mind at ease to know that what he was doing was the best thing for him.

You should also add mobility work to this list as well.

[jacknap]

thank you for sure!

also added niacinamide today with fresh juice + coffee + vitamin c. mood wise arguebly better than pre-fin. not sure how sustainable this feeling is though!

[jacknap]

are there any don'ts to fasting?

eg) no teeth brushing? showering? contact lenses?

obviously dont do heavy weight lifting

[Cdsnuts]

are there any don'ts to fasting?

eg) no teeth brushing? showering? contact lenses?

obviously dont do heavy weight lifting

You can brush your teeth with this : Amazon.com: Pack of 2 Remineralization Tooth Powder - Peppermint (1 Oz): Home Kitchen (http://amzn.to/2vVwC66), although you won't be eating so it's not going to be completely necessary.

You can shower given you have the strength to do so.

I personally preferred to not wear my contact lenses during a fast because I noticed stuff coming out of my eyes which made wearing them uncomfortable. I usually just wore my glasses, or nothing at all. You're not going to be moving around to much so it shouldn't be an issue. I also noticed that my site became better during a fast so I wanted my eyes to rest as much as possible.

Most importantly, you need to make sure you REST as much as possible during this time. Use the time to go inward. Practice your "being" and present moment mindset. Meditation is easier during a fast because you have the time to focus on YOU and you have no other physiological distractions, so to speak.

Watch as many videos as you can by Eckhart Tolle as he is the master of the present moment.

A good fast should be a profound experience, physically and mentally. Use the time wisely.

[jacknap]

woke up super groggy today. l-theanine helped me sleep.

after downing some coffee + niacinamide + b6 I got the dht itch. and my hair is falling out. i always thought the itch i had was from the minox i used to use.

i also ate a ton of sorghum seeds which btw taste delicious so perhaps they truly do raise DHT.

[jacknap]

planning on starting my fast on thursday. CD you did 3-4 fasts from what I recall. the first 14 and the others 21 days.

from what I understand the first 14 day fast gave you the bulk of relief of symptoms correct? eg) the insomnia, anhedonia, head pressure

[Cdsnuts]

planning on starting my fast on thursday. CD you did 3-4 fasts from what I recall. the first 14 and the others 21 days.

from what I understand the first 14 day fast gave you the bulk of relief of symptoms correct? eg) the insomnia, anhedonia, head pressureAs soon as I was finished with my first 14 day fast I wish I would have went for another week. Shoot for 21 days right off the bat if you can.

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[jacknap]

yeah pending on how I'm doing I hope I can pull it off. I'm not going to do it at true north because I don't want to wait 6-8 weeks to start and I'd rather be in the comfort of my own home, also don't have the funds and my parents don't wanna help fund it.

health care is free here though so I'm planning on checking my bloods with doctors every 3=7 days or so for electrolytes. I have a friend who did this on her 7 day fast and 30 day juice cleanse after.

also gunna use a facebook water fasting group and ask for tips from veterans as I go and guidance from my naturopath.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah pending on how I'm doing I hope I can pull it off. I'm not going to do it at true north because I don't want to wait 6-8 weeks to start and I'd rather be in the comfort of my own home, also don't have the funds and my parents don't wanna help fund it.

health care is free here though so I'm planning on checking my bloods with doctors every 3=7 days or so for electrolytes. I have a friend who did this on her 7 day fast and 30 day juice cleanse after.

also gunna use a facebook water fasting group and ask for tips from veterans as I go and guidance from my naturopath.Said it before and I'll say it again. Bad idea to do a fast that long at home.

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[jacknap]

did cryotherapy today with hopes of relieving the head pressure.

so far did nothing for that just increased sense of well-being. i anticipate it might help me sleep better tonight as well..

my sleep wasn't as good as the night before actually but did feel a bit DEEPER sleep.

for those who have already been to true north health center seems like the best one and there isn't a non-disclosure agreement when doing it there right?

apparently the inglewood fasting center in costa rica has some horror stories of people becoming very damaged from water fasting and are silenced by the clinic. so just a warning to anyone considering that one.

[jacknap]

for herbs what you guys think is better?

21 herbs use each one only once every 3 weeks
or 21 herbs use 3 at a time different one each day of the week

I think 21 herbs 3 at a time (one week rotation). even though there will be slight tolerance I think you'll ge 80% of benefits plus synergistic effect of having more herbs more often. Also the slightly more expensive method.

[jacknap]

according to my research prohormones are suppressive and some sarms are not. could a sarm be better to cycle on the protocol? also no need for PCT?
especially since for me I used an anti-androgen so might be a really good thing for me to use. (this is down the line 3+ months)

Are Sarms Suppressive? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESK2NNuLG5E)

[Cdsnuts]

Dude...

Stick to what works. You're trying to change around something that is proven to work on everyone that sticks with it. You're not going to get it done any faster then it's already going to happen.

Stick to the protocol.

[jacknap]

tried butea first time today. overall increased mood but I also got increased heart rate, which I don't mind. is that a thing?

hooked up with one of my main girls that i hadn't seen in months. past 3 weeks haven't had much problem with sex but today I did. was able to finish but lost my boner mid sex so had to segway with some foreplay to get it going again. Not sure if it's a minor downswing or caused by using bathmate first time in 3 months for 5 minutes and/or anxiety cuz she was my favourite main girl so I was a bit nervous.

[jacknap]

so if I understand correctly the herbs that we can take daily are

shilajit
pine pollen powder
pine pollen tincture
maca
goji
butea
ziziphus

am i missing anthing else?

the things that have helped me the most with sleep are l-theanine and skullcap. I use l-theanine 250mg before bed + skullcap. then when I wakeup half way another l-theanine 250mg and I can better sleep. still not pre-crash but wa better than when i was at my worst.

[jacknap]

is phenibut okay to use on the protocol? i haven't used it at all after i crashed but it was one of my favourite supplements before would use it 2-3 times a week like 1.5-2grams

was thinking can really help with sleep / more fun during social times. but I've been staying away from 'intoxicants' not sure if it qualifies as one, it's essentially pure gaba in a way.

[Durantia37]

is phenibut okay to use on the protocol? i haven't used it at all after i crashed but it was one of my favourite supplements before would use it 2-3 times a week like 1.5-2grams

was thinking can really help with sleep / more fun during social times. but I've been staying away from 'intoxicants' not sure if it qualifies as one, it's essentially pure gaba in a way.

I'd personally stay way from that shit. My roommate ended up having really bad withdrawal problems after using phenibut regularly.

[jacknap]

depends on how you use it. I used it for over a year no problems. going over 2grams and more than 3x a week every other day is when withdrawal comes into the picture. but cdnuts liked your reply so i guess he feels the same?

i'm sure he didn't include it because most people are dumbys and would abuse too much of a good thing lol. that's my guess.

[Cdsnuts]

Phenibut is great for those who can control themselves....but that is very few people.

It's too easy to take it when you can't sleep or are feeling anxious and next thing you know, you're trapped. The withdrawl from it is nasty....been there, done that.

Best bet for most guys is to stay away.

[jacknap]

during juice feasting is it cool to use herbs like bacopa/ashwa/ziziphus etc. and/or l-theanine?

or should juice feasting be strictly juice no other herbs/s

also relora = yay or nay?

made some amazing progress on my sleep so nervous going into my cleanse now lol.

[Master Mal]

during juice feasting is it cool to use herbs like bacopa/ashwa etc. and/or l-theanine?

or should juice feasting be strictly juice no other herbs/s

also relora = yay or nay?

I think you wanna stay away from herbs during the feast. The point is to reset your body back to zero, and that means nothing but vital nutrients in the form of the juice.

[jacknap]

this is gunna be down the line if i do try it but for the prohormones what's the general concensus of what to use? or the thread with the best info on how to use?

cause it seems like you're supposed to stack like 4? just have to prepare myself research wise and money wise lol.

I really want to get my chiseled face back. I hate looking at my moon face every morning lol.

since I used something that blocks the dht receptor, should i use a different prohormone?

how much faster will prohormones actually aid in recovery estimate?

[Cdsnuts]

You need to read the stickies in the Propecia section on this board. You don't stack four prohormones. If you're going to run anything you want to run a DHT based prohormone for a short four to six-week cycle the first go-around

For the next two months focus on getting the whole protocol down along with rotating the herbs

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[jacknap]

I read all the stickys just got confused cuz it seemed like people were stacking them?

how much faster will prohormones actually aid in recovery estimate?

is what these guys talking about the same as the prohormones we're talking about?

PROHORMONES WARNING DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE TAKING THEM!!! @hodgetwins - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQuB-iApT20&t=40s)

Why would anyone ever use a prohormone? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-B2QAB2BIU)


cause both these videos they say bad things about them

[Cdsnuts]

I read all the stickys just got confused cuz it seemed like people were stacking them?

how much faster will prohormones actually aid in recovery estimate?

is what these guys talking about the same as the prohormones we're talking about?

PROHORMONES WARNING DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE TAKING THEM!!! @hodgetwins - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQuB-iApT20&t=40s)

Why would anyone ever use a prohormone? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-B2QAB2BIU)


cause both these videos they say bad things about them

You ever hear the saying too many chefs ruin the soup?

You need to choose who and what you're going to follow here.

What do those videos say about curing PFS?

What do the doctors say about taking propecia or in your case, an anti-androgen? Sides will stop once you do, right?

My point is this protocol has been undertaken by hundreds of guys and the ones that actually do what is recommended recover. I'm not going to bother watching the videos because there is no point. If you do what is recommended here you are going to get out of the mess your in.

Follow what is laid out for you and you'll be on your way.

Use the search function on this forum. It's all been explain before in regards to what prohormones to take and more importantly, WHY to take them.

In regards to time frame, you will heal faster by using the prohormones properly.

You need to stop worrying about how long it's going to take because it's just going to put a drag on your mental processes. It's going to take longer then you want it to, that's for sure. The sooner you start implementing this program, the sooner you'll recover.

[K8668B]

Hahah!!!

I saw that exact video by the hodgetwins regarding prohormones a long time ago.

One of them was talking about how it gave them "andro-cock" when he was 19 years old.

The same exact thing went through my head when i watched it.- "well, did these guys ever have PFS? No they didnt, so their opinion is irrelevant to me."

[Cdsnuts]

So I just checked out the video out of curiosity.....Um...If you want to listen to those guys...lol. Go for it.

[Durantia37]

Some people stack 4-andro with R-andro to prevent estrogen from getting too low, but I wouldn't worry about that for now - just stick with what works.

The prohormones those dudes are talking about are probably not the mild, non-suppressive, DHT-based prohormone that is R-andro.

[jacknap]

solid thanks guys. my libido is still not what it used to but i was able to have sex 4 times last week.. so happy about that when i was completely impotent.

I had a very high libido before this. I respond quite well to herbs. My body in general is just very sensitive so I feel everything. That's why I got fucked from using an anti-androgen just once lol.

[K8668B]

i dont take them seriously, but i personally am subscribed to and enjoy the hodgetwins videos. theyre hilarious as fuck ;)

[jacknap]

I have a bunch of parasites eg) blasto, some yeast, citrobacter freundii 1,2,3 enterobacter ciocae complex

apparently i can knock them off with grapefruit extract, couldn't hurt right?

[Cdsnuts]

I have a bunch of parasites eg) blasto, some yeast, citrobacter freundii 1,2,3 enterobacter ciocae complex

apparently i can knock them off with grapefruit extract, couldn't hurt right?

That, or fast for a few weeks.

[jacknap]

for those who use gotu kola how do you use it? Just picked me up some capsules 450mg the label says take 2 capsules 3-4 daily seems overkill lol.

helps with sleep and anxiety right so minimum effective dose I'd assume is evening?

[jacknap]

what do you guys think of TAO philosophy on ejaculation? only masturbated once since I crashed otherwise just sex but even according to TAO I'm ejaculating a bit too much. (have sex about 2-5 times a week now).

according to TAO I should just be ejaculating every 5 days

(Age – 7)/4 = X

Plug in your age. The number you get for X is the number of days you should go between ejaculations. A 39-year-old man, for example, would ejaculate every 8 days.

I followed this equation for several weeks, tracking my perceived quality of life and sex drive.

here's the article

The Biohackers Guide to Better Sex (https://blog.bulletproof.com/bulletproof-your-sex-life/)

sex without ejaculation is encouraged however.

[jacknap]

also CD one of the only T boosting supplements I haven't started taking yet is Iodine... would using Kelp be just as good if not better because it's more of a 'whole food' that has a lot of Iodine?

[jacknap]

for boners, yes a lot of the herbs work but as an extra aid when needed for a particular girl u wanna fuck good what's the concensus on using arginine? yay or nay? how much? dosage? timing etc?

[jacknap]

rough day today.. got my hair cut and my hair stylist noticed that my hair got way thicker..

frustrating living with my parents that don't believe me and constantly play devil's advocate with me. they help me out a lot but emotionally very unsupportive.

got dumped by my friends with benefits of 10 months and she was getting more and more distant as I crashed and that hurts. though logically I know if she truly cared about me she would have been closer to me. it still hurts.

hope i can go through my cleanse with little stress and seemingly and get this nightmare out of the way and return to the man I used to be. the down swings are very scary and it's hard to find good people during these times. gets very lonely.

[Cdsnuts]

rough day today.. got my hair cut and my hair stylist noticed that my hair got way thicker..

frustrating living with my parents that don't believe me and constantly play devil's advocate with me. they help me out a lot but emotionally very unsupportive.

got dumped by my friends with benefits of 10 months and she was getting more and more distant as I crashed and that hurts. though logically I know if she truly cared about me she would have been closer to me. it still hurts.

hope i can go through my cleanse with little stress and seemingly and get this nightmare out of the way and return to the man I used to be. the down swings are very scary and it's hard to find good people during these times. gets very lonely.

Apparently she was more to you then friends with benefits seeing as your describing it as "being dumped." Friends can't really dump each other in the first place. Either way, not the best type of girl to have in this situation. Fuck buddy's are only good when you can actually fuck them. You should switch gears for a bit...keep one around that actually cares about you. It will go a long way into helping you out of the slump.

[jacknap]

hey guys so one thing wanted to run by you, I slipped back to my pre-crash sleep schedule. 2am-12pm.

I'm a musician so it's best sched for my gigging and it's also the best time to have girls over for sexytime.

I know a lot of people like English advocate circadian rhythm to the sun but wanted to get your opinions on this, especially CDs if possible?

[Durantia37]

hey guys so one thing wanted to run by you, I slipped back to my pre-crash sleep schedule. 2am-12pm.

I'm a musician so it's best sched for my gigging and it's also the best time to have girls over for sexytime.

I know a lot of people like English advocate circadian rhythm to the sun but wanted to get your opinions on this, especially CDs if possible?

I think you'll be fine. It's not optimal, but it's not that big of a deal, imo.

[jacknap]

yeah didn't think so either and the net benefit of doing what I love + tapping ass I think is better.

do any of you guys use krill oil? cause sometimes I feel like my crash a sort of traumatic brain injury and fish oils are really useful to recover from that. I used to use krill oil but it has so much astanxthin which is a potent dht blocker... what fish oils do you guys recommend? I've heard muscle oil doesn't have the asthanxthin

[bizzbee]

Keep it simple. You can get plenty of fish oil by eating fish.


yeah didn't think so either and the net benefit of doing what I love + tapping ass I think is better.

do any of you guys use krill oil? cause sometimes I feel like my crash a sort of traumatic brain injury and fish oils are really useful to recover from that. I used to use krill oil but it has so much astanxthin which is a potent dht blocker... what fish oils do you guys recommend? I've heard muscle oil doesn't have the asthanxthin

[jacknap]

yeah I do this. I rotate cod/haddock/alaskan salmon.

I want to recover as fast as humanly possible though so I think additional fish oil supplementation might be good if it's a good source.

what's your guys opinion on trying licorice root? cuz champster basically followed the protocol for 2 years and didn't recover till using it.

would be a shame to follow for two years without recovery only to have not tried licorice as well. but isn't it dicey as it's anti-androgenic in a way?

[Durantia37]

yeah I do this. I rotate cod/haddock/alaskan salmon.

I want to recover as fast as humanly possible though so I think additional fish oil supplementation might be good if it's a good source.

what's your guys opinion on trying licorice root? cuz champster basically followed the protocol for 2 years and didn't recover till using it.

would be a shame to follow for two years without recovery only to have not tried licorice as well. but isn't it dicey as it's anti-androgenic in a way?

If you're eating fish regularly, you're getting all the fish oil you need. More isn't necessarily better, especially considering it contains PUFA.

I personally don't think licorice root had much, if anything, to do with that guy's recovery. Keep it simple dude. None of this hyper-analysis pays off. Trust me, I've been there.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah I do this. I rotate cod/haddock/alaskan salmon.

I want to recover as fast as humanly possible though so I think additional fish oil supplementation might be good if it's a good source.

what's your guys opinion on trying licorice root? cuz champster basically followed the protocol for 2 years and didn't recover till using it.

would be a shame to follow for two years without recovery only to have not tried licorice as well. but isn't it dicey as it's anti-androgenic in a way?

It may appear that way in regards to licorice root, but that's not the reality. The reality is he was laying the ground work for healing doing EVERYTHING else that needs to be done and then he happened to add in licorice root at the end. Don't get it twisted.

The sleep thing isn't optimal, but if it gives you a better quality of life, then it could be argued it's optimal FOR YOU.

I would stick to the fish in your diet as your main source of fish oil.

[jacknap]

for sure cd. I'm not saying licorice to be a magic pill, just seeing if you'd think it would be cool to add into herb rotation along with the rest of the protocol cause I've heard mixed reviews of it being anti-dht?

[Cdsnuts]

for sure cd. I'm not saying licorice to be a magic pill, just seeing if you'd think it would be cool to add into herb rotation along with the rest of the protocol cause I've heard mixed reviews of it being anti-dht?

I've never used it and I haven't researched it simply because I don't have a need to. I don't make a habit of recommending anything that I haven't personally used. I can say with certainty that what is laid out for you will do the job, no ifs ands or buts. It's up to you if you choose to add onto the existing protocol.

Despite what others may say, i'm not sure off hand I think it's wise to add in any type of anti-androgen.

Is the herb list not long enough? lol.

[jacknap]

I know cd, just wanna make sure I leave no stone unturned. want my life back as fast as possible lol.

as guestimate even after I crashed I never stopped training. 10 years momentum.

wondering if I do a 2-3 week cleanse how much actual strenght I'll lose cause I'd like to just pickup where I left off (obviously with much lesser weight and feel out what feels right and build from there)

[Cdsnuts]

I know cd, just wanna make sure I leave no stone unturned. want my life back as fast as possible lol.

as guestimate even after I crashed I never stopped training. 10 years momentum.

wondering if I do a 2-3 week cleanse how much actual strenght I'll lose cause I'd like to just pickup where I left off (obviously with much lesser weight and feel out what feels right and build from there)

You're always going to take a few steps back strength wise after a cleanse, but it's worth the price. It comes back quickly afterwords.

[jacknap]

first day was not so bad.

actually went as good as possible I was able to sleep and just woke up once and fell asleep after 30 minutes or so. Total got 9 hours. which is amazing cause at first I couldn't sleep more than an 1.5 hours and 3 hours total. Hopeful my sleep will improve totally from the cleanse as it did for cd and maxout.

hunger hasn't been too bad yet and if it stays at this level I can go on for a long time...

cd during your many cleanses at what point did you find your sleep fixed? I know you say that everything helps together but on your PH post you cited your water fast eliminated like 5+ symptoms. was it on day 10 or?

[Cdsnuts]

first day was not so bad.

actually went as good as possible I was able to sleep and just woke up once and fell asleep after 30 minutes or so. Total got 9 hours. which is amazing cause at first I couldn't sleep more than an 1.5 hours and 3 hours total. Hopeful my sleep will improve totally from the cleanse as it did for cd and maxout.

hunger hasn't been too bad yet and if it stays at this level I can go on for a long time...

cd during your many cleanses at what point did you find your sleep fixed? I know you say that everything helps together but on your PH post you cited your water fast eliminated like 5+ symptoms. was it on day 10 or?

Well my first fast I was detoxing off of four powerful narcotics at once, so that one isn't the best judge. I would say I started getting better sleep at around the week to ten day mark.

[Cdsnuts]

What type of water are you drinking Jacknap?

[jacknap]

reverse osmosis water at the moment. so far doing good. my mind feels crisp and calm. going easier than I thought it would. hope the trend continues. hunger is there but totally manageable when I focus on other things. I think my 4-5 years of intermittent fasting might have made the process easier for me, I hope.

[Cdsnuts]

reverse osmosis water at the moment. so far doing good. my mind feels crisp and calm. going easier than I thought it would. hope the trend continues. hunger is there but totally manageable when I focus on other things. I think my 4-5 years of intermittent fasting might have made the process easier for me, I hope.

It's only been a day.....lol

[jacknap]

It's only been a day.....lol

yeah day 2. just happy I was able to sleep decently though, was a pleasant surprise. also from my research I thought the first few days were the hardest...

[jacknap]

day 3. sleep was still decent. just took about 40 minutes to fall asleep and then one wake up after 6 hours again that took about 45 minutes to fall back asleep.

this is HUGE from not being able to sleep more than 3 hours a night. I imagine it'll be even better when I jump back on ziziphus/passionflower/skullcap/magnesium/glycine.

there's a great forest 10 minute walk from my place where I do nature walks but it's down a pretty steep hill... not sure if going up and down it during fasting would be wise...

so far my energy is good, though it's not like i'm doing much. Watching soccer, making music, reading, youtube, holosync.

drinking about 3L of water daily. strangely very thirsty and also reak of spices (I use a lot of turmeric, chipotle, garlic, onion in my salads)

also got the light headedness when standing up to fast that i've read about, but not a big deal.

[TubZy]

day 3. sleep was still decent. just took about 40 minutes to fall asleep and then one wake up after 6 hours again that took about 45 minutes to fall back asleep.

this is HUGE from not being able to sleep more than 3 hours a night. I imagine it'll be even better when I jump back on ziziphus/passionflower/skullcap/magnesium/glycine.

there's a great forest 10 minute walk from my place where I do nature walks but it's down a pretty steep hill... not sure if going up and down it during fasting would be wise...

so far my energy is good, though it's not like i'm doing much. Watching soccer, making music, reading, youtube, holosync.

drinking about 3L of water daily. strangely very thirsty and also reak of spices (I use a lot of turmeric, chipotle, garlic, onion in my salads)

also got the light headedness when standing up to fast that i've read about, but not a big deal.


Yeah I noticed a weird odor as well, I still have it even 8 days in

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah I noticed a weird odor as well, I still have it even 8 days in

Detox.

You're cleansing deeper then you ever have before.

[jacknap]

Yeah I noticed a weird odor as well, I still have it even 8 days in

yeah that doesn't leave apparently till quite deep into the fast I think.

What are the common stages of water fasting and what occurs at various stages during the fast? > Fasting > Water Fasting FAQ (http://www.curezone.org/faq/q.asp?a=25,1787,2836&q=759)

from rockbottom to rockstar, baby.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah that doesn't leave apparently till quite deep into the fast I think.

What are the common stages of water fasting and what occurs at various stages during the fast? > Fasting > Water Fasting FAQ (http://www.curezone.org/faq/q.asp?a=25,1787,2836&q=759)

from rockbottom to rockstar, baby.

Depends on alot of variables. How gunked up your are going in, how much fluid you're taking in, how much activity you're doing, etc. I've had some fasts that were a breeze and I've had some that were fucking nightmares. ALL of them were worth it.

[K8668B]

Keep up the good work bro! So its a water fast that you're doing i see. If you can do at least 10 days minimum, then try that. If you're doing it at home, then be safe. I never did a water fast, so i couldnt say. Be safe!! You got this bro =)

[jacknap]

day 4 now.

last night took a longer time to fall asleep like 2 hours but I think that's also cause i woke up late.
I have a bit of lower back soreness - I'd wager from now moving around as much + taking a break from the gym or adrenal fatigue (never had an injury before)

so far so good. i'm having dreams of food and making plans of my future meals LOL. the hardest part is actually just dealing with my parents who check in on me 2-3 times a day and discourage me for about 5 minutes to stop and that they 'listen to the doctors' that scoff at my condition. dick move, but it's enough challenge changing myself than trying to persuade them so I just avoid them as much as I can as they're emotionally toxic. they're very helpful in other ways though.

strange thing is I was fantasizing eating two huge bowls of sorghum seeds + kefir. I usually only have appetite to eat one bowl though. So it's funny how our minds play tricks on us to exaggerate how much we want to eat etc.

this is pretty important in pfs cuz in the downsings are minds sorta play tricks on us.

[TubZy]

I get back pain all the time, it is the kidneys most likely from the electrolyte imbalance lol. My back always locks up if I bend over for too long

[jacknap]

like even when not fasting?

[TubZy]

No just while fasting

[Durantia37]

I get back pain all the time, it is the kidneys most likely from the electrolyte imbalance lol. My back always locks up if I bend over for too long

That would happen to me as well, especially when I was going to bed.

[jacknap]

think i just hit ketosis. zero hunger right now past few hours. anyone know how long of a water fast is needed to 'turn off' autoimmunity?

[jacknap]

day 6... same shit not too bad. I keep falling asleep later and later but the actual sleep I feel is getting deeper and only wakeup once a night and that once a night period is shrinking, fell back asleep in 10 minutes. After my fast when I add some sleep discipline eg) having a waking window I think the later falling asleep thing will fix especially with the sleep supplements.

Getting antsy to start eating again but it's not too bad to keep going if I keep my mind engaged. I can't imagine how people just lay down for 21 days with Loren Lockman that's when it's hardest for me eg) doing holosync and the delayed sleep.

I still actually have a lot of adipose tissue so might even be able to transcend my goal of 7 days. anti-androgen crash fundamentally changed my body composition although not that bad. I have more water retention, and torso fat than before. My strength remained unchanged though cuz I kept pushing up my gym numbers.

would be nice if I can go 10 days so then I can make the juice feast shorter as well :P

[TubZy]

day 6... same shit not too bad. I keep falling asleep later and later but the actual sleep I feel is getting deeper and only wakeup once a night and that once a night period is shrinking, fell back asleep in 10 minutes. After my fast when I add some sleep discipline eg) having a waking window I think the later falling asleep thing will fix especially with the sleep supplements.

Getting antsy to start eating again but it's not too bad to keep going if I keep my mind engaged. I can't imagine how people just lay down for 21 days with Loren Lockman that's when it's hardest for me eg) doing holosync and the delayed sleep.

I still actually have a lot of adipose tissue so might even be able to transcend my goal of 7 days. anti-androgen crash fundamentally changed my body composition although not that bad. I have more water retention, and torso fat than before. My strength remained unchanged though cuz I kept pushing up my gym numbers.

would be nice if I can go 10 days so then I can make the juice feast shorter as well :P

Same bro I had to actually do stuff like clean, go shopping or work on stuff, run errands, take a shower otherwise the day drags way too long time goes by way to slow haha. I could only lay in bed for small part of the day then I had to get up and do stuff, couldn't imagine just being bed ridden 24/7 for multiple weeks.

At one point, I went for shopping for other people haha

[jacknap]

day 7

the good = sleep has gotten better. had like 3 vivid dreams last night and woke up with a tingle in my nuts and felt horny. only lost about 8 pounds.

the bad = still have water retention and my face looks round, that head pressure part of my brain feels like the part is no longer there or oxygen/blood is not getting in or something... I think cdnuts remarked the same thing and that prohormones helped 'fill this up' on PH. hope so it's a creepy feeling that not a lot of other guys i see mention.

I have slight top of throat soreness that I've heard means it's time to end the fast... at the same time though I feel like I can keep going a bit more for sure. Think it's way to early for my body to be signalling that. My piss is still yellow and frothy and tongue very white.

[backup_plan]

day 7

the good = sleep has gotten better. had like 3 vivid dreams last night and woke up with a tingle in my nuts and felt horny. only lost about 8 pounds.

the bad = still have water retention and my face looks round, that head pressure part of my brain feels like the part is no longer there or oxygen/blood is not getting in or something... I think cdnuts remarked the same thing and that prohormones helped 'fill this up' on PH. hope so it's a creepy feeling that not a lot of other guys i see mention.

I have slight top of throat soreness that I've heard means it's time to end the fast... at the same time though I feel like I can keep going a bit more for sure. Think it's way to early for my body to be signalling that. My piss is still yellow and frothy and tongue very white.

Every time i did water fasts i had very vivid dreams and in the past i didn't did the fasts for PFS. Since you are doing this at home, how is your mood?

For PFS i did 18 days of water fasting, the facial change from propecia started getting smaller on day 14 for me.

Make sure you drink enough water though.

[jacknap]

day 8. beat my initial goal of 7, but gunna see if I can push it a bit more as the most beneficial days are deeper into the fast.
hunger is almost zero, but feel very weak so will likely lay down even more today.

weigh less than I have for over 10 years now. (150lbs)

[Cdsnuts]

day 8. beat my initial goal of 7, but gunna see if I can push it a bit more as the most beneficial days are deeper into the fast.
hunger is almost zero, but feel very weak so will likely lay down even more today.

weigh less than I have for over 10 years now. (150lbs)

Yes...You're in the zone now. The longer you can go, the better. REST.

[jacknap]

day 9. My face is starting to look closer to normal. Finally feels like my adipose issue is being eaten.
Going to probably end my fast on Thursday. Don't wanna try to be a hero unsupervised and switch to juice feast.

haven't found any progress on my head pressure/hole in the head feeling behind my right eye.
music does sound great during the fast though :)

for those who fasted/feasted - how long did it take to be able to do the stuff you were doing pre-fasting? eg) gym, etc.

also have a strange sensation where my jaw clenches up. hope it's my body eating face fat and not my jaw cuz my jaw is one of my best features lol

[Cdsnuts]

day 9. My face is starting to look closer to normal. Finally feels like my adipose issue is being eaten.
Going to probably end my fast on Thursday. Don't wanna try to be a hero unsupervised and switch to juice feast.

haven't found any progress on my head pressure/hole in the head feeling behind my right eye.
music does sound great during the fast though :)

for those who fasted/feasted - how long did it take to be able to do the stuff you were doing pre-fasting? eg) gym, etc.

also have a strange sensation where my jaw clenches up. hope it's my body eating face fat and not my jaw cuz my jaw is one of my best features lol

Go by feel, but give yourself a good month before hitting any kind of heavy weight. Start back up with body weight exercises to gauge strength/weakness

[jacknap]

Go by feel, but give yourself a good month before hitting any kind of heavy weight. Start back up with body weight exercises to gauge strength/weakness

yeah I'm going to slowly gauge how much I can do eg) body weight, then add 5 pounds each rep to 'feel out' what's comfortable limit.

how much juice you think I should break the fast with? was thinking 1L first day, 2L second, 3L third, then hold steady at 4L. of course, if I have an appetite for more juice I will do more.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah I'm going to slowly gauge how much I can do eg) body weight, then add 5 pounds each rep to 'feel out' what's comfortable limit.

how much juice you think I should break the fast with? was thinking 1L first day, 2L second, 3L third, then hold steady at 4L. of course, if I have an appetite for more juice I will do more.Seeing as the juice feasting program only recommends 5 to 6 quarts a day your goal of four liters is about 8 quarts... That's a lot of juice

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

Isn't a quart the same as a litre or very close to it? according to my google search unless i'm wrong...

I put in 4 litres into google and it said = 4.22 quarts

eg) 32oz = 1 quart. so 32oz x 4 daily.

[Cdsnuts]

Isn't a quart the same as a litre or very close to it? according to my google search unless i'm wrong...

I put in 4 litres into google and it said = 4.22 quarts

eg) 32oz = 1 quart. so 32oz x 4 daily.

Lol....yes....you are correct.

For some reason I was thinking half gallon instead of a liter.

[jacknap]

broke my water fast at the 11th day
I think things i gained from the fast = cleaner system, better skin, improved mood
literally see the wrinkles near my mouth like come off

one weird thing I started getting day 9-10 was facial contractions. Almost like a grimace. I still have it today. Not a good look. hope that goes away as I start refeeding. My theory is that because I used retin-a for like a year perhaps my body is detoxing from it. anyone else get it?

one thing I'm dissapointed with is it didn't get rid of the 'hole in my head' feeling / head pressure. Though it is a lot less from when I first crashed.

How much water is recommended during feasting and in general? During that fast I generally drank 3 Litres daily. I would also do around the same in my regular life.

[Cdsnuts]

broke my water fast at the 11th day
I think things i gained from the fast = cleaner system, better skin, improved mood
literally see the wrinkles near my mouth like come off

one weird thing I started getting day 9-10 was facial contractions. Almost like a grimace. I still have it today. Not a good look. hope that goes away as I start refeeding. My theory is that because I used retin-a for like a year perhaps my body is detoxing from it. anyone else get it?

one thing I'm dissapointed with is it didn't get rid of the 'hole in my head' feeling / head pressure. Though it is a lot less from when I first crashed.

How much water is recommended during feasting and in general? During that fast I generally drank 3 Litres daily. I would also do around the same in my regular life.

It's a start. You could have went longer, but it's a push in the right direction.

Just keep at it. You were drinking more then enough water.

[jacknap]

It's a start. You could have went longer, but it's a push in the right direction.

Just keep at it. You were drinking more then enough water.

I actually think I should have broke it a bit earlier like my original 7 day plan (+ 14 juice) as I actually think I had electrolyte issues on day 9. My jaw still have minor spasms that are slowly starting to go away but might have suffered some minor nerve damage - hopefully caught it early enough though that it's not that. Didn't think it was that originally though that it was a detox symptom from using retin-a before I crashed for a year.

I think 5 maybe 7 max should be done unsupervised.

What's people 2 cents on retin-a btw? I find it works incredible, but it's synthetic so I'd imagine kinda toxic to the liver so I binned it during recovery. Stick to quality collagen powder, skin brushing, organic moistuirizers and eating right...

[Cdsnuts]

I doubt you caused nerve damage during the cleanse

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

yeah unlikely but also mind you that I got pfs from a one time topical dose of something which was also highly improbable so my system seems to be tres sensitive lol.

btw I did 3 hours of meditation last night in a row. Didn't go to another dimension unfortunately. One thing Joe Rogan is big on though is doing an edible in the sensory deprivation tank... something looking forward to trying when I recover lol.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah unlikely but also mind you that I got pfs from a one time topical dose of something which was also highly improbable so my system seems to be tres sensitive lol.

btw I did 3 hours of meditation last night in a row. Didn't go to another dimension unfortunately. One thing Joe Rogan is big on though is doing an edible in the sensory deprivation tank... something looking forward to trying when I recover lol.

I tried one of those float tanks based upon a pod cast I heard of his. It was an interesting experience to say the least. I have one not even fifteen minutes from my house. I prefer my usual meditation to the float tanks believe it or not. When I went, I did it for an hour and I plugged into my holosync program. I did toke up a bit before hand as well. It was an experience for sure.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah unlikely but also mind you that I got pfs from a one time topical dose of something which was also highly improbable so my system seems to be tres sensitive lol.

btw I did 3 hours of meditation last night in a row. Didn't go to another dimension unfortunately. One thing Joe Rogan is big on though is doing an edible in the sensory deprivation tank... something looking forward to trying when I recover lol.

I don't think I could physically do three hours of meditation in a row. I really approach my productive limit around 45 minutes or so. How did you make out?

[jacknap]

yeah it wasn't productive. In those 3 hours there was probably like 20 minutes of actually being present. Had a lot of mind chatter. I imagine if I used bacoba and l-theanine during the session though it would have been more productive.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah it wasn't productive. In those 3 hours there was probably like 20 minutes of actually being present. Had a lot of mind chatter. I imagine if I used bacoba and l-theanine during the session though it would have been more productive.Bacopa and gotu Kola is the perfect combination for that type of activity

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

just tapped a girl I picked up from the mall before I crashed... I used L-Arginine 5g + Pine Pollen Tincture just before to give me a boost down below just in case...

is l-arginine okay to use once or twice a week as a boost down below?

what specific supplements help u guys the most with erections/libido?

butea I think helps my libido the most but it seems stimulatory so I feel like it would keep me up at night...

also thoughts on yohimbine? (super stimulatory and raises neuropepinphrine) I used to use this as a combo with phenibut before I crashed and would make me a fucking beeeast in bed. cant sleep all night with the combo tho. yohimbine is crazy cuz it ramps up libido and erections but has nasty sides.

[jimmyjonas]

just tapped a girl I picked up from the mall before I crashed... I used L-Arginine 5g + Pine Pollen Tincture just before to give me a boost down below just in case...

is l-arginine okay to use once or twice a week as a boost down below?

what specific supplements help u guys the most with erections/libido?

butea I think helps my libido the most but it seems stimulatory so I feel like it would keep me up at night...

also thoughts on yohimbine? (super stimulatory and raises neuropepinphrine) I used to use this as a combo with phenibut before I crashed and would make me a fucking beeeast in bed. cant sleep all night with the combo tho. yohimbine is crazy cuz it ramps up libido and erections but has nasty sides.

Yes, I'm also curious about thoughts on L-arginine , I used it for about two months in early stages of getting sides as it was being recommended on lots of propecia sites and general ED sites like pegym etc that it was very good for blood flow to genitals etc

However, it had absolutely zero effect on me even taking it at higher doses, it had zero effect down below.

[jacknap]

for me it works. from my research the dose for ED is 5 grams.

Ray Peat is against it's use though so I'm going to try to use it only in moderation eg) once a week or if it's a new girl that's 8.5/10 + lol.

what worked for you jimmy?

[jacknap]

update. refeeding time

muscle spasms completely gone. ran low on electrolytes during my fast. magnesium, calcium in particular.

back in the gym. I lost maybe 10-20% strength but I think I'll get back to my level I was pre cleanse in a month via muscle memory and upping my lifts each week.

cleanse benefits = improved sleep (80% now), improved energy/mood (80%), improved poo (been shitting soooo much, I had some gut infections that I think the cleanse weakened + using grapefruit seed extract and prebiotic rich foods I think made my gut way healthier.

was able to fuck last night without the l-arginine and quite well. pine pollen powder I think is enough insurance to get the job done. can only do like one round a night though but that's good enough some guys don't even get laid for months or years lol mind u I was a sex maniac before I crashed so this is hard for me...

I think by end of october I'll be at like 75-80%. Things left libido still low 20%. Water retention in my face / torso making it moon shaped. Wakeup 1-2 times a night for 15 minutes each. Less aggression and drive to dominate the world like I used to (feel blase). Feel like I have a small hole in my head still.

Excited to run andro in 2-3 months if I can get my hands on it. Possibly try 5-adp as well in a month after herb cycling...

interstingly haidut (georgi) who created the 5adp said that using preg with a steroid enhances the properties of a steroid... might be something to consider on cycle? This was said on the danny roddy podcast with him

happy with my progress so far. coming from rock bottom. I basically had all the pfs symptoms + actual painful full body convulsions. Way closer to normal than I am that rock bottom state...

[jimmyjonas]

for me it works. from my research the dose for ED is 5 grams.

Ray Peat is against it's use though so I'm going to try to use it only in moderation eg) once a week or if it's a new girl that's 8.5/10 + lol.

what worked for you jimmy?

Interesting, i'm not discounting that Larginine could well work for blood flow etc. When i was taking it, it was early days of sides for me so i was in a really fucked up place both physically and mentally/really stressed so perhaps anything I took then wouldn't have had an effect, i hadn't done a fast at that stage and was turning to booze to ease anxiety which was a very very bad idea so that was far more likely the reason for it not having an effect on me.

In terms of whats worked so far for me really has been getting diet sorted, completely cutting alcohol, exercise before work and rotating the herbs.

Pine pollen has a calming effect on me, its great for my easing my stress, depending on when i take the other herbs they have a different effect, let me explain that better, yesterday was tongkat ali day and it floored me as in light headed, felt kind of out of it, had to sit on couch for a bit, the last couple of hits ive done of it it hasnt had that effect. Today was shilajit day and i got a really nice boost in libido, last couple of times on it I havent noticed too much, there's stuff going on with my body that I can't see (I'm not a scientific type of guy lol), like in waves as Coppersocks said in his last post, so I haven't been closely monitoring myself everytime i take the herbs I just knock em back and go on with my day.

I remember when I started taking the herbs I kept saying to myself this is going to take time, this is going to take time, over and over, so I was setting myself up for the long haul and wasnt going to get disappointed if i didnt feel effects immediately from the herbs, again it's what Coppersocks says about nudging yourself over the months in the right direction, for me this is proving to be true.

[jacknap]

thanks jimmy.

one thing I was wondering is cdnuts.. when we fully recover if we choose to cycle andro after fully recovered like this do you get even further baseline improvement? eg) after 100% if u do a cycle will u get 103%? lol become the ultimate man at 200% to make up for lost time...

[K8668B]

- - - Updated - - -


thanks jimmy.

one thing I was wondering is cdnuts.. when we fully recover if we choose to cycle andro after fully recovered like this do you get even further baseline improvement? eg) after 100% if u do a cycle will u get 103%? lol become the ultimate man at 200% to make up for lost time...

I love this comment. And like i said before, i love your enthusiasm. Well ive talked to cdsnuts in some private messages, and he basically says he feels even better than he did pre-PFS. I would only hope to be this ultimate man at %200 to make up for lost time. I would keep cycling even after healing from pfs myself personally.

[jacknap]

update

my symptoms leftover are not even that bad
now all i have left is = my face is a bit puffy, im only 33$% as horny as i used to be but it's fine cuz i can just use the time doing other stuff, i wakeup 1-2 times a night for 10 minutes, not as sharp/driven, and i bit more anxious/moody. Also i'm not as sharp cognitively. I was able to juggle more things in my head at a time but that has improved as well.

I'd gauge i'm about 75% overall. If progress continues like this I think I can realistically fully recover by April. Exactly 1 year since I took that dose of RU58841. Let's hope my parents don't cockblock my prohormone shipment as they are weary from any of purchases from the internet as that's how I got myself into this mess through an internet product. lol

Been listening to health podcasts everyday and adding new tricks to my regimen. The more things we do to build health the more we can snowball and quicken the healing. New addition = putting eggs inside my coffee with collagen, ceylon cinnamon, ginger, cacao. Tastes greats just be sure to sift the eggs with a spoon cuz otherwise it just tastes flemmy. cudos Dave Asprey

last night was a bit annoying. Was with a chiliean chick from tinder and I was fucking her missionary no problem but when she wanted to go on top I lost my boner lol. I ate her out and then regained to fuck her doggy and had a really lacklustre orgasm. I think it's a mix of anxiety too because I get nervous that my boner won't be sufficient for her to ride it lol. I didn't use Arginine though as I didn't care if I made her a regular girl or not and was willing to botch the sex. If she was hotter though I would have taken precautions. Also it was car sex which isn't the most comfortable cuz she lives with her parents and wasn't willing to travel to me in the middle of the night.

[jacknap]

been a mini roller coaster with symptoms. Sleep almost restored then had some dips. Got a possibly new hottie in my rotation. Kinda sucks cuz I can't get FULLY hard when she's on top. lol still able to do my other go 2 positions at least though and she was down to hangout for a second time at least and she def wants to chill again. Told her about my situation as well and she's super supportive and confident in my full recovery.

I'm happy that my sleep is almost close to normal, this has a dramatic improvement in my mood. Wakeup between 1-3 times a night. Average is 2 but I'm able to fall asleep relatively quickly.

I think I don't respond well to maca as I notice my erection quality is in the shitter on maca days... think maxout didn't respond well to maca either. All the herbs though I think either help or at least pose no problems. Sucks cuz maca is one of my favourite tasting ones.

one or two more weeks in the gym and my lifts will be same as pre-cleanse.

thinking of doing my first prohormone cycle in december. should I add creatine and 5adp before then or throw that in after cycle?

i'm curious for recovery... is the % each month ground gained go up steadily, exponentially, or are the last few bits stubborn? I feel like I've been stuck at 70-75% a lot longer than the first few percentages lol.

My thoughts. Optimistically = recovery is exponential because once you get a decent amount of recovery % sleep, mood etc. it speeds it up.

Or it's just 3-17% each month steadily.

Or the last 25% is most stubborn. From what I read from maxout at least he got like 15% in the last month as I recall he said he was 85% and then the next month was recovered. I'm having little pockets of time where things are almost completely back to normal. All symptoms except that 'hole in my head' feeling. Though at one point I had head pressure at two points in my head early in my crash, now it's just that one persistant point deep behind my right eye.

also cd speaks of other guys that are bit less well known of our generation of recoveries that have recovered. I'd be curious to read their stories as well. Before there was a specific pfs subforum.

Entropy was one of them that was there during the transition. There's also freepress who crashed from fenugreek. Thanksgiving I think fully recovered as well. And I'm sure there's some more posters as well. I fiend this stuff and I have a sticky note of 100 recoverers from pfs on a sticky pad to help build belief. (Though they aren't all through complete natural methods)

Sometimes I'm scared because I crashed from something that only like 4-5 other people in the world crashed from RU58841. I'm grateful to cd and you guys for welcoming me to this wonderful community and supporting me. Though I've made great strides, I actually think I was the worst of the worst. Not only did I have every symptom in the book but I also had additional convulsions 2 nights after I crashed. Still not sure if I suffered some form of stroke or epilepsy. Though I'm sure the cat scan would have picked that up. I had absolutely no REM sleep and now I'm dreaming like a baby via ziziphus.

Thinking of adding some nootropics from liftmode to my regimine and rotate them like herbs eg) oleadamide, huperzine-a etc. wonder cd's take on this? recall him saying that he wanted to add nootropics to totalmaleoptimization.

had a really strong coffee today and gunna hit downtown to pickup some girls cause saturdays are the best in my city :P

[Cdsnuts]

been a mini roller coaster with symptoms. Sleep almost restored then had some dips. Got a possibly new hottie in my rotation. Kinda sucks cuz I can't get FULLY hard when she's on top. lol still able to do my other go 2 positions at least though and she was down to hangout for a second time at least and she def wants to chill again. Told her about my situation as well and she's super supportive and confident in my full recovery.

I'm happy that my sleep is almost close to normal, this has a dramatic improvement in my mood. Wakeup between 1-3 times a night. Average is 2 but I'm able to fall asleep relatively quickly.

I think I don't respond well to maca as I notice my erection quality is in the shitter on maca days... think maxout didn't respond well to maca either. All the herbs though I think either help or at least pose no problems. Sucks cuz maca is one of my favourite tasting ones.

one or two more weeks in the gym and my lifts will be same as pre-cleanse.

thinking of doing my first prohormone cycle in december. should I add creatine and 5adp before then or throw that in after cycle?

i'm curious for recovery... is the % each month ground gained go up steadily, exponentially, or are the last few bits stubborn? I feel like I've been stuck at 70-75% a lot longer than the first few percentages lol.

My thoughts. Optimistically = recovery is exponential because once you get a decent amount of recovery % sleep, mood etc. it speeds it up.

Or it's just 3-17% each month steadily.

Or the last 25% is most stubborn. From what I read from maxout at least he got like 15% in the last month as I recall he said he was 85% and then the next month was recovered. I'm having little pockets of time where things are almost completely back to normal. All symptoms except that 'hole in my head' feeling. Though at one point I had head pressure at two points in my head early in my crash, now it's just that one persistant point deep behind my right eye.

also cd speaks of other guys that are bit less well known of our generation of recoveries that have recovered. I'd be curious to read their stories as well. Before there was a specific pfs subforum.

Entropy was one of them that was there during the transition. There's also freepress who crashed from fenugreek. Thanksgiving I think fully recovered as well. And I'm sure there's some more posters as well. I fiend this stuff and I have a sticky note of 100 recoverers from pfs on a sticky pad to help build belief. (Though they aren't all through complete natural methods)

Sometimes I'm scared because I crashed from something that only like 4-5 other people in the world crashed from RU58841. I'm grateful to cd and you guys for welcoming me to this wonderful community and supporting me. Though I've made great strides, I actually think I was the worst of the worst. Not only did I have every symptom in the book but I also had additional convulsions 2 nights after I crashed. Still not sure if I suffered some form of stroke or epilepsy. Though I'm sure the cat scan would have picked that up. I had absolutely no REM sleep and now I'm dreaming like a baby via ziziphus.

Thinking of adding some nootropics from liftmode to my regimine and rotate them like herbs eg) oleadamide, huperzine-a etc. wonder cd's take on this? recall him saying that he wanted to add nootropics to totalmaleoptimization.

had a really strong coffee today and gunna hit downtown to pickup some girls cause saturdays are the best in my city :P

Well you certainly don't have any problem grabbing tail, do you? Lol.

Listen, don't worry so much about percentages and timelines. It's just going to end up letting you down because of the natural ebb and flow of the healing cycle.

You're coming along nicely, and quickly to boot. Just keep doing what you're doing, stop worrying about what you used to get you in this situation. EVERYTHING is fixable.....everything.

Just keep at it dude. I know you might not be where you were, but you're still pulling chicks and having sex. That's more then most guys in your situation can do. Look at the positives and be thankful for them....always. Gratitude goes a long way towards recovery.

You'll get there. You're already getting there. Keep at it.

[jacknap]

shit. the artichoke extract I have has milk thistle in it which apparently is an anti-androgen? was using the nature's way brand.

bizbee had like a crash from that? I think I shouuuld be okay but gunna bin it for sure.

on the positive. removing it might speed up my recovery further ^.^

[jacknap]

today got a pituitary glandular, wanted to try it out.

also got cogni-q which is coenzyme q10 and pqq which boosts mitochondria

[jacknap]

weird ass sleep downswing last night. preceded by the best sleep I had post-crash.

2 nights ago = slept full just one wakeup bathroom and fell asleep quickly after.
last night = 3 wake ups but the 3rd wake up took 3 hours to fall asleep again so did a bit a holosync.

things I did different = drop the milk thistle, added beta alanine, dropped pine pollen tincture daily (rotate weekly now), added con-creatine. It was also catauba bark day.

Hopefully it's just a coincidence or short down swing. Strange I haven't had that bad sleep since early September.

Good news. I woke up with raging wood and libido. I contacted all the people who sell androsterone and saw who can bring it to Canada, so i'm going to order from the guy who messaged me back first. I would get from Rob but it appears sold out from his store for now and also I don't know if he has a success rate into getting it into Canada. They don't even allow pregnenalone here. I got it from my doctor.

[jacknap]

Was ahead of schedule today so I decided to write up what I’m currently doing to recover so I can use it as a template for a recovery post eventually and let people see if there’s anything I’m doing that maybe I should stop using.

Used Chi’s recovery post as a bit of a template. Essentially following cdnuts protocol + additions that other guys have used like Maxout, Tubzy, English et al.

Morning Supplements

1. Shilajit
2. Vitamin B6
3. Vitamin B12
4. L-Tyrosine
5. Adrenal glandular
6. Beta Alanine (Still testing if I want to keep this in on training days)
7. NAC
8. Grapefruit Seed Extract
9. Lion’s Mane
10. Chlorella (cell wall broken)
11. Con-creatine
12. Pregnenalone
13. Vitamin C
14. Gotu Kola
15. Cdnuts herbs (all of them except Maca on a 7 day rotation)
16. Thorne extra nutrients


Evening Supplements

1. Niacin 500mg
2. Niacinamide 500mg
3. Vitamin D3 + K2 1000UI + 120 mcg x 4
4. Bacopa
5. L-Carnitine
6. L-Taurine
7. Boron
8. Cogni-q (PQQ + Coenzyme Q10)
9. Pituitary Glandular
10. L arginine 5-6 grams like once a week if I really want to fuck a girl well.

Sleep Supplements

1. Glycine (10 grams)
2. Ziziphus
3. Passionflower tincture
4. Skullcap tincture
5. Phosphotideserine
6. Magnesium Glycinate
7. Melatonin 3mg
8. L-Theanine


Diet

Everything is organic and fresh.
Been using spring water for 90% of all water I use now. Get an 18L barrel since cleansing.

Breakfast

1. Coffee (Ginger, Cacao, Ceylon Cinnamon, Collagen)
2. Eggs (Pastured Organic)
3. Organic Grass Fed Skim Milk
4. Orange/Pineapple/Grapes/apples/misc other fruits
5. Lemons in Water
6. kefir


Post Workout

1. Whey Protein Concentrate (Organic /Pastured)
2. Goji Berries


Big Evening Feast

1. Salad = Celery, Parsley, onions, white mushrooms, romaine, tomatoes, carrots, kimchi, cranberries(obviously use other veggies too depending on what the stores have)
2. Steamed Veggies = Brocolli, Kale.
3. Grass fed butter
4. Olive oil (ass dressing)
5. Spices = pink salt, sea salt, black pepper, turmeric, garlic, onion, parlsey, oregano
6. Tea = Banana peel chamomile, greek herbal tea, Ceylon cinnamon, ginger
7. Meat = Haddock, Cod, Alaskan Salmon (all fish wild), beef liver, mussels, bison, venison, oysters.
8. Carbackloading carbs = white jasmine rice, sweet potatoe, buckwheat, sorghum seeds, ice-cream
9. Shake = Milk, Eggs, Pine Pollen Powder, Berries, Banana, Raw Honey, coconut oil, coconut butter
10. Yoghurt



My Symptoms

1. Low body temperature at times
2. Facial Changes (bloated, eye bags, rounder)
3. Poor memory (almost gone)
4. Poor focus (gone)
5. Long refractory period (almost gone)
6. Low stress tolerance (almost gone)
7. Poor erections (almost gone but not hard enough for girl on top at times)
8. Low libido
9. Anhedonia (Gone)
10. Insomnia /poor sleep (greatly improved but not normal yet)
11. Shrunken Balls (Gone)
12. Personality Change (My personality is pretty much back)
13. Shortness of breathe (gone)
14. Anxiety/panic attacks (gone but anxiety sometimes comes back)
15. Muscle spasms (gone)
16. Low drive for life (gone)
17. Nausea (gone)
18. Testicle pain (gone)
19. Mood swings (gone)
20. Head pressure / hole in head feeling (the most persistent symptom)


Exercise

1. Weights 3 x a week with at least 1 day off in between (squats, deadlifts, incline bench, sprints, + a super set of lotsa other things.
2. Yoga once a week just 20 minutes
3. Holosync + lotus sutra meditation daily + head stands and prayer.



Lifestyle

1. I do everything cdnuts says to do on totalmaleoptimization = cold showers, skin brush, avoiding xenoestrogens, breathing exercises, bathmate, sun tanning, no fap, cleanse (10 days water + 4 day juice feast)
2. Grounding pad when playing fifa
3. Music
4. Reading
5. Comedy
6. Picking up girls
7. Flux app / blue blockers at night
8. Avoiding unpleasant people when possible
9. Being with positive people when possible
10. Forest walks virtually daily.
11. Gratitude
12. Podcasts
13. Watching Soccer
14. Goal setting
15. Self cognitive behaviour therapy = reframing / perspective / things that went well today etc.
16. Sleep with pink noise, bose noise cancellation headphones, and blackout curtains, use sleep cycle app to wake up at non-deep sleep time frame.


Next steps I might/will make

1. 5adp
2. Androsterone
3. Red light therapy
4. 23andme
5. Huperzine A
6. Deer placenta
7. Lithium orotate
8. Icarin from liftmode
9. Tudca
10. Vitamin b2

[jacknap]

slept like a baby last night. according to sleep cycle just one wake up and hour before my actual wake up and quickly went back to sleep.

i think it might have been cause i ate too much before bed. better to not eat 2-3 hours before bed. I knew that but I didn't eat a lot that day so was stuffing my face late onto the night lol.

[K8668B]

damn bro, how did you acquire all those supplements and items so quickly? lol

[K8668B]

i loved some of your lifestyle habits. especially avoiding unpleasant people when possible. when you get on the protocol, alot of times you will end up doing these things instinctively, as if youre not even trying to do them. This just happens because of the state of mind youre in. it feels so natural.

[jacknap]

fuck. my sleep went back to being shit tonight as well. a bit alarming cause I haven't slept this bad since early sept or august maybe... I think the milk thistle seed that was in my artichoke extract might have caused it.. I stopped taking it for like a week now after I found it can be anti-androgen.

very similar to how I reacted to ru58841. stopped it and felt an increase in baseline and then swinging back and forth to great to shit each day. also had a strange headache before my sleep regressed.

should I do another cleanse or just stick to next steps in the protocol?

[Cdsnuts]

fuck. my sleep went back to being shit tonight as well. a bit alarming cause I haven't slept this bad since early sept or august maybe... I think the milk thistle seed that was in my artichoke extract might have caused it.. I stopped taking it for like a week now after I found it can be anti-androgen.

very similar to how I reacted to ru58841. stopped it and felt an increase in baseline and then swinging back and forth to great to shit each day. also had a strange headache before my sleep regressed.

should I do another cleanse or just stick to next steps in the protocol?

You should simply do the protocol as outlined. You'll save yourself so many back and fourths by doing this. And no, no need to do another cleanse. And don't mind my tone....I'm just aggravated as I have a bunch of people reaching out for me because they're having issues and of course, once I do some digging, the reason for those issues is they're trying to re-invent the wheel by adding other things in, using things that aren't recommended and then they're wondering why they're having issues.

Listen...you can't make this go any faster then it's naturally going to go. That's it. bottom line. It takes however long it takes. All you guys need to do is SHOW UP, and do what is outlined. THAT'S IT.

[jacknap]

Sounds good to me CD. Thanks for looking out for me. I get frustrated too when I see people are drinking/eating junk/drugs. Even though my supplementation is done from the name of recovery which imo is more in the right direction I should really be more vigilant. Not gunna add anything else to the protocol from now on besides Androsterone and 5adp. Will also subtract the supplements that aren't in the protocol. My baseline is still way higher than initial crash (it was like negative 10% I almost lost my will to live) so must stay positive.

Just that I oscillated from being like 85-80% for a while back down to like 70-75%.

Hey, maybe even after taking the milk thistle out i'll progress even faster :)

[Cdsnuts]

Sounds good to me CD. Thanks for looking out for me. I get frustrated too when I see people are drinking/eating junk/drugs. Even though my supplementation is done from the name of recovery which imo is more in the right direction I should really be more vigilant. Not gunna add anything else to the protocol from now on besides Androsterone and 5adp. Will also subtract the supplements that aren't in the protocol. My baseline is still way higher than initial crash (it was like negative 10% I almost lost my will to live) so must stay positive.

Just that I oscillated from being like 85-80% for a while back down to like 70-75%.

Hey, maybe even after taking the milk thistle out i'll progress even faster :)

Milk thistle can be good for the liver but it also lowers blood sugar rather quickly. I learned that the hard way. When I started taking it I would get shaky, anxious and felt like I was going to pass out. Did some research and learned I was tanking my blood sugar after I ate. IMO, there is a better liver supplement which I take before and after I drink, which is http://amzn.to/2A1QZxu. It used to be called Liv52. This formulation doesn't have milk thistle in it.

[Cdsnuts]

That being said, if you're swinging up to 85%, that's fantastic. Just stick to the plan and you'll be there before you know it. It's silly to cause yourself any set backs at all when you don't have to.

[jacknap]

just got some leh gotu, lion's mane, and bacopa because of the sale.

are these to be taken daily or are they best cycled like other herbs? I've been doing it daily but cycling always make my wallet happy too lol. my health is number 1 tho so if daily is better will stick to daily.

also cd u only list bacopa on totalmaleoptimization unno if u did that on purpose or not but i think u do recommend lions mane and gotu as well so might as well put links there too no?

[jacknap]

got my hands on super r-andro rx from IML Super R-Andro Rx IronMag Labs (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-r-andro-rx/)

wanted to get it before christmas delays in shipping etc. plan on cycling it Dec 1st for 6 weeks. About 2.5 months after my cleanse. I've regained all my strength that I had before the fast and cycling herbs before and after my cleanse for about 4 months total.

cd told me 'That's still too fast. I would go 100mg/twice a day for the first week. Build slowly from there.'

so game plan = 1st day 100mg. Then 100mg/twice a day for first week. Then bump to 300mg second. Then 400mg third. Possibly bumping to 500/600mg if no negative effects are seen.

[Durantia37]

got my hands on super r-andro rx from IML Super R-Andro Rx IronMag Labs (https://www.ironmaglabs.com/product/super-r-andro-rx/)

wanted to get it before christmas delays in shipping etc. plan on cycling it Dec 1st for 6 weeks. About 2.5 months after my cleanse. I've regained all my strength that I had before the fast and cycling herbs before and after my cleanse for about 4 months total.

cd told me 'That's still too fast. I would go 100mg/twice a day for the first week. Build slowly from there.'

so game plan = 1st day 100mg. Then 100mg/twice a day for first week. Then bump to 300mg second. Then 400mg third. Possibly bumping to 500/600mg if no negative effects are seen.

Good luck man.

[jacknap]

Good luck man.


thanks brozilla. Can't wait to give it a run :)

[Cdsnuts]

thanks brozilla. Can't wait to give it a run :)You're going to love it brofessor

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Jaad84]

Hey Jacknap. I see your from Canada ? Me too !

Any issue getting the super r-andro rx up here. Did you have it shipped?

[jacknap]

Hey Jacknap. I see your from Canada ? Me too !

Any issue getting the super r-andro rx up here. Did you have it shipped?

no issues. What I did I just emailed all the retailors and I bought from the most responsive and helpful one asking if they have success shipping here. Obviously isn't going to be the cheapest but if we're ordering in Canada customer service is number 1 priority so u dont get screwed out of hundreds of dollars.

[jimmyjonas]

Good luck with your run on R Andro man! I’m planning a run on this soon.

[jacknap]

I could be wrong but another hypothesis I have on the head pressure / hole in my head feeling I have might actually be from the stupid spinal tap they did to me on my second emergency room visit...

my memory isn't perfect on whether I had it before but pretty sure I didn't have it until AFTER the spinal tap but I just attributed everything to the ru58841

the doctors here were so terrible they didn't even mention the warnings of the procedure (it can actually be quite dangerous) nor did they say report your doctor if you have a headache and to rest horizontally for a while... when 25% of young men will have a headache from it. also even for people with MS they usually wait it out before doing the procedure.

[Cdsnuts]

I could be wrong but another hypothesis I have on the head pressure / hole in my head feeling I have might actually be from the stupid spinal tap they did to me on my second emergency room visit...

my memory isn't perfect on whether I had it before but pretty sure I didn't have it until AFTER the spinal tap but I just attributed everything to the ru58841

the doctors here were so terrible they didn't even mention the warnings of the procedure (it can actually be quite dangerous) nor did they say report your doctor if you have a headache and to rest horizontally for a while... when 25% of young men will have a headache from it. also even for people with MS they usually wait it out before doing the procedure.I've had a spinal tap before... The issue you're dealing with is from the compound you took. It basically did to your brain the same thing PFS does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

nice little up swing today and yesterday. 87.5% lol

megadosed tribulus and schizandra (this is a nice combo for me)

been having heart contractions though which is annoying. (when i upped my coffee dose + after cold showers).

[Cdsnuts]

nice little up swing today and yesterday. 87.5% lol

megadosed tribulus and schizandra (this is a nice combo for me)

been having heart contractions though which is annoying. (when i upped my coffee dose + after cold showers).

Heart contractions? Like palpitations?

What Trib are you using? I'm going to try that combo. I still have a whole tub of the good stuff though (Liftmode)

[jacknap]

fuck dieing to try liftmode when they replenish.

i use new roots tribulus 45% saps and I used like 10 capsules 3000mg.

I guess they are like palpatations yeah but it just felt like my heart was squeezing a bit too hard hence why I said contraction lol.

most likely due to the coffee cuz I usually only have like 170mg of caffeine a day now and then I had two large ones on saturday so like 600mg of caffeine for a kick. I used to do this dose like once a week before I crashed and didn't have contractions like that before though. Maybe like mild palpatations.

felt amazing though not gunna lie saturday was fun lol.

[Cdsnuts]

fuck dieing to try liftmode when they replenish.

i use new roots tribulus 45% saps and I used like 10 capsules 3000mg.

I guess they are like palpatations yeah but it just felt like my heart was squeezing a bit too hard hence why I said contraction lol.

most likely due to the coffee cuz I usually only have like 170mg of caffeine a day now and then I had two large ones on saturday so like 600mg of caffeine for a kick. I used to do this dose like once a week before I crashed and didn't have contractions like that before though. Maybe like mild palpatations.

felt amazing though not gunna lie saturday was fun lol.

Yeah...that's alot of fucking Trib.

[jacknap]

I try to megadose the ones that hit the spot the most for me - doubling down. Tribulus, pine pollen, butea, tongkat, ashwa, mucana, rhodiola, schizandra being some of those.

my sleep has been yoyoing from best ever post crash to pre-fast levels... though overall still better than before the fast. last night took me 2 hours to fall back asleep and that's after using l-theanine. weird shit...

thinking of adding 5adp to solve the sleep once and for all cuz when I get good sleep I feel a lot closer to recovered. a lot of my symptoms i feel are sleep deprivation related. andro i'd imagine will help with ze sleep too right?

[jacknap]

still have the weird heart shit. it's less than saturday when i megadosed mucana and coffee

not sure what it is? it feels basically like my heart is constricting is that like heart burn or palpatations?

I think I have had it in the mornings only. I've had my blood pressure tested many times and it was good. and I also had that little heartbeat/lung thing and that was cool...

one guy who crashed from the substance i used got heart failure but his symptoms were way worse and he got it immediately

I've been improving in all other areas though. i'm seeing a urologist nov 27 so was thinking to ask for a heart test and hopefully it subsides by then

slept nice last night though :)

[jacknap]

went to a walk in and doctor ordered me an x-ray and ECG that I'm going to do tomorrow asked if i could get something less invasive than x-ray but she said no. worth doing both I'd wager?

[Cdsnuts]

I try to megadose the ones that hit the spot the most for me - doubling down. Tribulus, pine pollen, butea, tongkat, ashwa, mucana, rhodiola, schizandra being some of those.

my sleep has been yoyoing from best ever post crash to pre-fast levels... though overall still better than before the fast. last night took me 2 hours to fall back asleep and that's after using l-theanine. weird shit...

thinking of adding 5adp to solve the sleep once and for all cuz when I get good sleep I feel a lot closer to recovered. a lot of my symptoms i feel are sleep deprivation related. andro i'd imagine will help with ze sleep too right?It will help with sleep

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

yeah it's probably high cortisol (heart pains). went to emergency. 12 hours later ecg x 3, 2 blood tests and 1 x ray all 3 doctors cleared me :)

[Jaydoe]

yeah it's probably high cortisol (heart pains). went to emergency. 12 hours later ecg x 3, 2 blood tests and 1 x ray all 3 doctors cleared me :)

Hi Jacknap,

Nursing student here, your palpitations concern me just a little. What's your BP?

Before my Arimidex crash (when I was normal), I did get some palpitations during certain times, especially when I was stressed. I was always prehypertensive though, with a consistent BP of 124-128/82. Now since my crash I'm at 110/65.

It would make sense that you're getting the palpitations most frequently in the morning because cortisol is the highest around 7am. Definitely keep an eye on it. If you noticed any chest pain that can also radiate into other parts of your upper body like your arm, go to the ED.

Also, just a question, what were your symptoms post crash from PFS? and what are they now?

Keep us updated bro

[Cdsnuts]

Hi Jacknap,

Nursing student here, your palpitations concern me just a little. What's your BP?

Before my Arimidex crash (when I was normal), I did get some palpitations during certain times, especially when I was stressed. I was always prehypertensive though, with a consistent BP of 124-128/82. Now since my crash I'm at 110/65.

It would make sense that you're getting the palpitations most frequently in the morning because cortisol is the highest around 7am. Definitely keep an eye on it. If you noticed any chest pain that can also radiate into other parts of your upper body like your arm, go to the ED.

Also, just a question, what were your symptoms post crash from PFS? and what are they now?

Keep us updated bro

I had palpitations as well when I had PFS. It was related to stress more then anything.

[jimmyjonas]

Yeah, to second what cd said, I had major racing pulse and heartbeat in first three months of PFS, I remember one doc saying my pulse was totally off the charts yet I appeared very calm talking to him, he was concerned but I was running on adrenaline. I really think it’s stress and panic, basically for me it felt like a three/four month long panic attack without relief at the start of this, I remember thinking my heart would give in with the constant stress and rapid heartbeat as it lasted for months yet here I still am, try not to stress too much over it man.

[Cdsnuts]

Just your regular run-of-the-mill PFS in balance

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[jacknap]

a person actually had heart failure at 23 years from ru58841 so had to check. though I had palpitations at first too but they went away. These feels like my heart is just squeezing too hard and it hurts. have it today too. though it seems to be getting less and less.

but the doctors were pretty thorough so i'm confident that they got it right... though I wonder sometimes lol

[Cdsnuts]

a person actually had heart failure at 23 years from ru58841 so had to check. though I had palpitations at first too but they went away. These feels like my heart is just squeezing too hard and it hurts. have it today too. though it seems to be getting less and less.

but the doctors were pretty thorough so i'm confident that they got it right... though I wonder sometimes lol

Well damn...I don't blame you for doing your due dilligence and checking it out then. In the beginning of my nightmare, I went though the whole medical route first too. Once I realized they couldn't do anything for me, and I wasn't going to die from the issues, the worry wasn't there anymore, and it sent me on the journey I ended up embarking on.

That's crazy though man....the fucking things we did to ourselves for hair.

[jacknap]

yeah I didn't find out till now but the guy who got heart problems didn't find out till he did echocardiograph test, not the stress ECG or any of the other standard tests.

I still have the pain but it's way less than the day it started. Gunna c if I can get that test done eventually. Not down to wait 12 hours at emergency though so I'll just go the regular walk in route for piece of mind.

I'm not as anxious about now though cause the cardiologist said it's very improbable that you would be getting heart symptoms 6 months later. And it does seem to be going away gradually. also lifting heavier than ever and haven't had any problems gaining strength. the pains are super random but seem higher earlier in the day.

edit; not sure if x ray and echocardiography do the same thing... did an x ray and it was fine.

[jacknap]

obviously for anyone thinking of using fenugreek as freepress learned the hard way...

Fenugreek and Testosterone: Galactagogues Increase Prolactin Levels - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOrlB547do)

[Pageidol]

It was the fenugreek that fucked me

[Snell1234]

yeah it's probably high cortisol (heart pains). went to emergency. 12 hours later ecg x 3, 2 blood tests and 1 x ray all 3 doctors cleared me :)
Definitely high cortisol. It’s happened to me too. I had my heart checked out a year ago. ECG and echocardiogram. Was all good. My heart beat was 130 too at this time.

Was told that it was just anxiety. But would be the high cortisol.

Now my heart beat is pretty much always 60 beats per minute and sometimes 70. The high cortisol stuff can come when I’m in a downswing, but it will go for good once you get better.

[jacknap]

strange. the facial twitching that I had gotten during the last few days of water fasting is mildly back past two days.

my left ear is kinda clogged up and painful. Was thinking that coincidentally that one of my wisdom tooth got impacted around the same time that I crashed so my facial puffyness might be because of that...

gunna have an x-ray tomorrow to check it out. anyone have an insight on wisdom teeth stuff?\

the heart pain thingy has been gone for 3 days straight now though, so that's good news.

[Cdsnuts]

strange. the facial twitching that I had gotten during the last few days of water fasting is mildly back past two days.

my left ear is kinda clogged up and painful. Was thinking that coincidentally that one of my wisdom tooth got impacted around the same time that I crashed so my facial puffyness might be because of that...

gunna have an x-ray tomorrow to check it out. anyone have an insight on wisdom teeth stuff?\

the heart pain thingy has been gone for 3 days straight now though, so that's good news.What kind of insight about wisdom teeth are you looking for?

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[Pageidol]

Not sure how your wisdom tooth was impacted upon crashing mate, probably unrelated....

[Meegs]

Hey jacknap- I can also relate to your heartbeat comments. Not that it matters, but I do not think that your latest episode is due to cortisol, although I have no clue what it is related to. When I first crashed after stopping Fin, my cortisol was sky high all day long for months. During this time my heart would beat rapidly of course and sometimes would have palpitations like yourself. Even though this wasn't normal obviously, it didn't cause my heart to actually hurt. My cortisol has since went down (probably 6 months after I crashed). Around a year later, I started having an issue where it felt like my heart muscle was hurting- like I could feel it being squeezed as if you would squeeze it with your hand (if that was possible). This has passed as well (happened over maybe 4 week period of time). Not sure what caused it like I said, but it was definitely different from the initial crash when I know for sure it was related to cortisol.

Take care man.

[jacknap]

What kind of insight about wisdom teeth are you looking for?

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a lot of times conventional medicine does things in a less than optimal way. eg) I don't exactly know if the dentist is gunna push getting them ALL removed if only one is causing a problem etc...

kinda annoying cuz I was about to start prohormones friday. But I'll find out if there's an impaction tomorrow.

[Cdsnuts]

a lot of times conventional medicine does things in a less than optimal way. eg) I don't exactly know if the dentist is gunna push getting them ALL removed if only one is causing a problem etc...

kinda annoying cuz I was about to start prohormones friday. But I'll find out if there's an impaction tomorrow.

If they're going in, they usually will take them all out so that they don't have to go back in and do it again when another one of them goes bad.

Regardless, it will only set you back a few days, week tops, then you can jump on the prohormones.

[jacknap]

yeah. antibiotics/pain killers they prescribe is cool during the recovery if I have to do it right?

talked to a naturopath about it and she was saying getting tylenol 3 instead of oxycotin or whatever might be better given my situation.

also probiotics to repopulate mayhaps.

[Cdsnuts]

yeah. antibiotics/pain killers they prescribe is cool during the recovery if I have to do it right?

talked to a naturopath about it and she was saying getting tylenol 3 instead of oxycotin or whatever might be better given my situation.It's a short-term thing and it's not going to set you back terribly. You got to do what you got to do

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[Hulk Smash]

I've read that wisdom teeth don't always need to be pulled out, it depends on the situation.
In some cases you can do oil pulling to relieve pain and prevent infection, until the tooth grows in.
I don't know how reliable the info is, just putting it out there.

[jacknap]

got it tested. don't need to pull them out. my issues are more sinus related it seems.

that's a relief. unfortunately my facial contractions that I got during the fast returned mildly past 2-3 days hopefully goes away again as it has for almost 2 months.

cd the chlorella you recommend is sold out... so I've been using this one instead. what you think?
tested for radiation, heavy metals and cell wall broken also pretty great price like 30$ for 120 days worth and that's at 9 tabs daily.

Buy Giddy Yoyo Organic Raw Chlorella Tabs at Well.ca | Free Shipping $35+ in Canada (https://well.ca/products/giddy-yoyo-organic-raw-chlorella_103403.html)

[jacknap]

anyone have tips for procrastination on the cold showers? Ive been doing them but I lose like so much time cuz I unconsciously procrastinate doing them lol.

[Jaad84]

How much time you wasting doing them? I'm literally in there just a few mins. I just take in a deep breath, say "f**k it" in my head, and jump in lol.

Every morning before work and every evening after the gym.

Not much of a 'tip' but thats my strategy.

[jacknap]

not while i'm actually in there, I waste time in the lead up lol. it's like a subconscious thing.

[Cdsnuts]

It's a great time for you to practice letting go... You just have to do it. Against anything that you may be feeling or any thoughts that you may have you just have to do it and let yourself experience the shock and uncomfortableness... This letting go or building of this ability will become very helpful in all other avenues of your life.

Start small... Force yourself to be under that water for 10 seconds. Do that for a week. Then the week after do 20 seconds, Etc. You want to build up to you're able to do it for a few minutes straight. The results are fantastic

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[jacknap]

yeah just gotta get that killer instinct to do it faster. I've been doing 3 minutes cold every shower. Got a timer (listen to an ipod stereo when I shower)

[K8668B]

ive been doing cold showers for about 8 months now. the more you do them, the less nervous you become about them. they almost become fun actually. i love them. i had to build a tolerance too. i just did what cd said for a recommendation on his website. just gotta build up to them. they great. instant test boost

[Fausto Soares]

I exercise, do cold shower and just after this i jump on the pool, what a great feeling! I built a pool mainly to treat this condition lol...

[Cdsnuts]

yeah just gotta get that killer instinct to do it faster. I've been doing 3 minutes cold every shower. Got a timer (listen to an ipod stereo when I shower)

Three minutes is great man! The way I first read that it made it seem as if you were having trouble getting them in. That's not the case at all.

[jacknap]

my shilajit resin is like shut solid cant open it :/ think im just gunna get the powder again next time

[Cdsnuts]

my shilajit resin is like shut solid cant open it :/ think im just gunna get the powder again next time

Run it under hot water or soak it in hot water. Next time, don't screw it on so tight.

[jacknap]

yeah i used hot water. will it not spill if i dont screw it on tight enough?

[Cdsnuts]

yeah i used hot water. will it not spill if i dont screw it on tight enough?

Spill? You got the resin right? Just sit it up right.

[Maxout777]

Do NOT get the Shilajit Powder. It is the fucking worst....I literally gagged everytime I tried it.

[Cdsnuts]

Do NOT get the Shilajit Powder. It is the fucking worst....I literally gagged everytime I tried it.Not only is it the most disgusting version but in my opinion the least effective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Maxout777]

Not only is it the most disgusting version but in my opinion the least effective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TapatalkIt is hideous. I currently have the pitch. The old school pitch from the VIP section.

[Cdsnuts]

It is hideous. I currently have the pitch. The old school pitch from the VIP section.Me too. I made sure to snatch a bunch up when it came back as that's my favorite version.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

I've used the powder before. The taste didn't really bother me. The taste that bothers me the most is the tongkat but that's the most androgenic herb so I take that shit like medicine.

if resin is more effective though I'll make it work lol thanks!

[jacknap]

I missed the pine pollen powder. tastes so good in my smoothies.

[jacknap]

I'm doing overall pretty well guys. When I got dodgy on sleep hygeine eg) sleeping to late the sleep gets dodgy again but if I stay deligent I usually only wake up like once or twice for 15 minutes.

libido lags the most but I can have sex on command like 95% of the time just takes a little longer to warmup.

still have that whole in head in feeling and my face isn't completely the way it used to be but I'm gunna experiment with drinking two coffees like I used to before i crashed and upping my water to perhaps lower the water retention in face (though this has definitely improved as well)

mentally/memory I'm like 100% more often than not. Sometimes I have little mental lapses but those are getting less and less.

Can't wait for this to all be over :)

Hoping soon cuz I want to go to Montreal to party in mid February and it's a bit of a wild trip. Will probably stock up on phenibut rather than drink even if I am fully recovered by then cuz alcohol is one of the worst things to use for pfs.

[jacknap]

one thing I've been playing around with is orange juice before sex. I think it's like nature's viagara. Let me know if it helps you guys too. Was able to have sex 4 times in 3 days with it :)

[Cdsnuts]

one thing I've been playing around with is orange juice before sex. I think it's like nature's viagara. Let me know if it helps you guys too. Was able to have sex 4 times in 3 days with it :)

This is completely off the cuff here, as in I haven't researched this at all, but I know there are constituents in grapefruit juice that increase the effectiveness of anything taken with it. It could be perhaps that the material in the OJ is increasing the efficacy of the herbs you're taking. Again, just a guess. It's safe to say that orange juice alone wouldn't be responsible for the benefits you're seeing here.

[biatch]

one thing I've been playing around with is orange juice before sex. I think it's like nature's viagara. Let me know if it helps you guys too. Was able to have sex 4 times in 3 days with it :)

man, I guess on you it can have a kind of good response as you claim, so great!!
but... the main reason is because you are responding well to the protocol.

[jacknap]

This is completely off the cuff here, as in I haven't researched this at all, but I know there are constituents in grapefruit juice that increase the effectiveness of anything taken with it. It could be perhaps that the material in the OJ is increasing the efficacy of the herbs you're taking. Again, just a guess. It's safe to say that orange juice alone wouldn't be responsible for the benefits you're seeing here.

grapefruit I've read lowers testosterone. citrus is great for T + lowering estrogen. Exactly what we want :).

also guys do not mix citrus with shilajit. the citrus unlocks the aluminum in the shilajit (lost empire mentioned this in email newsletter)

[Cdsnuts]

grapefruit I've read lowers testosterone. citrus is great for T + lowering estrogen. Exactly what we want :).

also guys do not mix citrus with shilajit. the citrus unlocks the aluminum in the shilajit (lost empire mentioned this in email newsletter)

Grapefruit has an enzyme that increases absorption of anything taken with it. So much so that the old Primordial Performance used to put grapefruit juice extract in ALL of their prohormones.

[jacknap]

got a bit of a cold. congested nose and sore throat.

tried sauna today to try to nuke it and megadosing vitamin c...

hopefully can nuke it fast cuz i have a show on thursday that i dont want to cancel where i need to sing.

might do a water fast all of wednesday. heard it's a fast track to nuking colds.

[Cdsnuts]

got a bit of a cold. congested nose and sore throat.

tried sauna today to try to nuke it and megadosing vitamin c...

hopefully can nuke it fast cuz i have a show on thursday that i dont want to cancel where i need to sing.

might do a water fast all of wednesday. heard it's a fast track to nuking colds.

It is, but it's a doubled edged sword. By doing a short fast, you may stir up things that need to be processed out thus making yourself feel worse until those things are eliminated from your system. Most times I've tried to do a short water fast, ie, 2-3 days, I always ended up having to go for a 5-7 days to get out what needed to come out. Proceed cautiously.

[jacknap]

1540

got a blood test. FSH went up by .2 but LH went up by 3-4.


testosterone went up by 2.5

so overall improvement as this was also an afternoon test and the one I did before was a morning test and I was sleep deprived to make it for the testing so it's probably even better in the morning.

this was 2 months ago before prohormones. feel even better now.

[biatch]

got a blood test. FSH went up by .2 but LH went up by 3-4.


testosterone went up by 2.5

so overall improvement as this was also an afternoon test and the one I did before was a morning test and I was sleep deprived to make it for the testing so it's probably even better in the morning.

this was 2 months ago before prohormones. feel even better now.

Would be interesting what has changed now.. Even if we all know that numbers are not so directly related to PFS since also CNS etc is involved.

[jacknap]

Would be interesting what has changed now.. Even if we all know that numbers are not so directly related to PFS since also CNS etc is involved.

free health care here so can get a lot of blood tests for free so I'll test it again eventually. I think my free total T before I crashed was like 23.5 (this was 2 years ago if I can remember correctly).

woke up today with the hardest morning wood I've had since I crashed. Slept really nice for like 10.5 hours and almost cured my cold overnight. still like 25% sick though.

I think using the bathmate has had an improvement on my morning wood. Though I need to get myself erect for it to work right for me. Still playing around with it though.

[jacknap]

erection strength was way up this week. got that look from girls faces that I used too when I enter them lol.


had a bit of a sleep downswing where it took an hour and half to get back to sleep though but the upswings are getting better and the downswings less and easier.

[Cdsnuts]

erection strength was way up this week. got that look from girls faces that I used too when I enter them lol.


had a bit of a sleep downswing where it took an hour and half to get back to sleep though but the upswings are getting better and the downswings less and easier.

Put a check mark in the bathmate box, because that thing is worth it's weight in gold.

Seeing as you get to compare this more then most PFS guys, how would you say that PFS effected your staying power?

[jacknap]

hmm. I didn't really have any problems with staying power before I had porn star like ejaculation control / erection quality (though i'm not enormous down below). I used it more cuz it would give me a bit more of a size gain that would last for 6 hours or so before using it. (I only used it like once or twice a week if I really wanted to have a good sex session)

Now with PFS I think it has improved my staying power yes. Though I also had a massive libido upswing.

[jacknap]

if you use it everyday it's effect. supposed to be rotated. I use ashwa once a week. sometimes twice.

[Cdsnuts]

hmm. I didn't really have any problems with staying power before I had porn star like ejaculation control / erection quality (though i'm not enormous down below). I used it more cuz it would give me a bit more of a size gain that would last for 6 hours or so before using it. (I only used it like once or twice a week if I really wanted to have a good sex session)

Now with PFS I think it has improved my staying power yes. Though I also had a massive libido upswing.

Meh...size has nothing to do with being able to please a woman anyway...unless you're really tiny down below. Confidence is the most important thing when it comes to sex. If they know you know, you know how to use it to their advantage, that's all that really matters.

How did you come to such mastery of ejac. control? Kegels, or just doing it often? I've founds kegels to be very good in this department and also regular use of the bathmate.

[jacknap]

Meh...size has nothing to do with being able to please a woman anyway...unless you're really tiny down below. Confidence is the most important thing when it comes to sex. If they know you know, you know how to use it to their advantage, that's all that really matters.

How did you come to such mastery of ejac. control? Kegels, or just doing it often? I've founds kegels to be very good in this department and also regular use of the bathmate.

just doing it often but I've also done kegals for 8 years or so.

I think it's just about being in touch with your body. Eg) 1/10 arousal. IF I'm at a 9-10 = ejaculation. So basically keep the arousal level to a 7-8 until ready to ejaculate. essentially.

Anytime I feel my arousal is getting to high that's when I'll switch positions and the time between positions will allow my arousal to climb back down to a sustainable level.

[Cdsnuts]

just doing it often but I've also done kegals for 8 years or so.

I think it's just about being in touch with your body. Eg) 1/10 arousal. IF I'm at a 9-10 = ejaculation. So basically keep the arousal level to a 7-8 until ready to ejaculate. essentially.

Anytime I feel my arousal is getting to high that's when I'll switch positions and the time between positions will allow my arousal to climb back down to a sustainable level.100%

You're doing well in this dept. for a PFS guy, honestly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

sleep has been getting so close to normal past week. Just have one wake on average 6 hours into sleep then fall back asleep in 15 minutes and get the last 3 hours or so.

libido/erection is the thing that lags the most. my dick would be ready for action within seconds. Now it takes a few minutes to warm up and get the deed done. I think another prohormone cycle will get this into gear.

ps guys there's an app on google chrome called 'honey' that automatically gives you the best promo code for your purchase. if any of you guys find a good deal on r-andro on a retailer let me know... wish i could buy from the man site but they don't ship to canada.

[jacknap]

so one of the latest supplements I tried out is rheuteri/rhamnosis probiotic. It's known to increase testicle size + lower cortisol.

Straight up been using it for a week or two and my balls are bigger lmao. pretty much the normal size they were before I crashed (guesstimating)

cd you should link up with christopher walker

I use the nature's way version. It's like 20 bucks for a 90 day supply.
How To Grow Bigger Testicles (Not Kidding) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67jTBWd0cX4)

[jacknap]

also anyone got a good source for maral root? I've been using at tea version from my local herb shop but wanna see if there's anything better.

lost empire hasn't had it in stock ever for me.

[Cdsnuts]

so one of the latest supplements I tried out is rheuteri/rhamnosis probiotic. It's known to increase testicle size + lower cortisol.

Straight up been using it for a week or two and my balls are bigger lmao. pretty much the normal size they were before I crashed (guesstimating)

cd you should link up with christopher walker

I use the nature's way version. It's like 20 bucks for a 90 day supply.
How To Grow Bigger Testicles (Not Kidding) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67jTBWd0cX4)

Christopher Walker huh? How fitting that my name happens to be Chris as well.....but really....does he even lift bro? (said sarcastically)

Honestly, I don't know if I'd want my nuts to get any bigger. I'm already rocking full sized chickens eggs over here....

[rmoore]

LEH discontinued Maral Root for now. They are trying to find a better source to get it from.

[jacknap]

nice sleep last night. just woke up once then had purely sexual REM sleep dreams last third.

sleep always tends to be best for me on deadlift days. imagine cause it releases large amounts of androgens for me as it's my best lift.

[Cdsnuts]

nice sleep last night. just woke up once then had purely sexual REM sleep dreams last third.

sleep always tends to be best for me on deadlift days. imagine cause it releases large amounts of androgens for me as it's my best lift.One of the most powerful exercises we can do in this regards.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

doing pretty well. overall 85-90% just have some lingering issues -> wake up once or twice a night, libido/erections not fully where it used to be (but was able to fuck twice in span of 3 hours monday night), face not completely leaned out (but I also put on a bit of weight cuz being 8% bf I feel is a bit hardcore year round, im probably 10-12 now) , hole in head feeling, energy not as high as it used to (also drinking less caffeine then I used to though)

I wake up with very hard erections like 80% of mornings and I attribute this to using the bathmate now 3x a week. Can't wait to see what it's like on my next prohormone cycle. picked up 5 bottles of r andro. Gunna start march 17th. Bam chiki wam wam

[Cdsnuts]

doing pretty well. overall 85-90% just have some lingering issues -> wake up once or twice a night, libido/erections not fully where it used to be (but was able to fuck twice in span of 3 hours monday night), face not completely leaned out (but I also put on a bit of weight cuz being 8% bf I feel is a bit hardcore year round, im probably 10-12 now) , hole in head feeling, energy not as high as it used to (also drinking less caffeine then I used to though)

I wake up with very hard erections like 80% of mornings and I attribute this to using the bathmate now 3x a week. Can't wait to see what it's like on my next prohormone cycle. picked up 5 bottles of r andro. Gunna start march 17th. Bam chiki wam wam

Yeah bathmate!

I knew you would like it once you got the hang of it. And as you can see, the benefits accumulate, much like health accumulates on this protocol. What is your current pumping routine? Maybe I can give you some pointers if necessary....

[jacknap]

double post

[jacknap]

Yeah bathmate!

I knew you would like it once you got the hang of it. And as you can see, the benefits accumulate, much like health accumulates on this protocol. What is your current pumping routine? Maybe I can give you some pointers if necessary....

right now I just use it after I shower. I stimulate myself to erection for like 4-5 minutes. Then I pump and refill with water every 3-5 minutes when I lose suction for total 15 minutes. Gunna boost it to 20 minutes pumping total when i do my andro cycle. 3 x weekly every other day

[jacknap]

one annoying thing i'm having is fatigue or lazyness.. thinking about having like two big coffees a day to remedy this and get my affairs in order.. 300mg each so like 600mg of caffeine daily.. I used to do this in 2014 and I was ultra productive and got shredded. I'm a bit weary that it might slow down my recovery tho as might be harsh being on mach 4 adrenal action daily...

[jacknap]

weird down swing past 8 days or so. don't really think I did anything different either.

[jacknap]

my sleep is still wonky and i notice that when i sleep well everything else is a lot better too. night/day difference.

I use 500mg l-theanine hour before bed and if I wake up in the middle of sleep i use another 500mg and that does the job 90% of the time. Overkill for theanine though?

[Cdsnuts]

my sleep is still wonky and i notice that when i sleep well everything else is a lot better too. night/day difference.

I use 500mg l-theanine hour before bed and if I wake up in the middle of sleep i use another 500mg and that does the job 90% of the time. Overkill for theanine though?

Ahhhhh....good to be back.....lol.

Isn't it?

Feels like my favorite pair of jeans.

Yeah sleep makes or breaks the day, for sure.

That being said, I've never found theanine to be good for sleeping. For general relaxation, yes, but not for sleeping. If it works for you though, keep at it. You're not over doing it at those doses either. I went on a couple spells of taking three or four 400mg doses with caffeine through out the day every three hours or so for a few weeks before. The issue was the theanine builds tolerance very quickly.

You're just going through a downswing my man.

You'll notice that as you progress through the healing phases, your downswings will start to come and go quicker and harder. Just keep in mind you're doing everything that you're supposed to be doing. That should set your mind at ease. Just let it be what it is. It's easier to get through to the other side when you're not trying to fight it. Just observe what you're feeling and where your heads at...just be with it. It will pass and you'll be better for it.

Have you tried doing some breathing exercises right before bed?

[jacknap]

yeah nasty down swing. I felt nearly recovered on my last cycle so excited for the next. the l-theanine still works like a charm for me just when i hit a down swing I wake up after 5 hours and can't get those last stages of rem sleep without l-theanine. In february tho I only had that happen twice. I would wake up but I was able to go to sleep after a piss.

breathing helps me with anxiety/panic attacks (which is gone now) but I haven't found it particular for sleep. I'll try again tonight for sure.

did u speak with rob? he said the site was gunna go down again on sunday until they find a new web master not sure if you're involved in this?

did u use melatonin at all? better to stay away?

[Cdsnuts]

yeah nasty down swing. I felt nearly recovered on my last cycle so excited for the next. the l-theanine still works like a charm for me just when i hit a down swing I wake up after 5 hours and can't get those last stages of rem sleep without l-theanine. In february tho I only had that happen twice. I would wake up but I was able to go to sleep after a piss.

breathing helps me with anxiety/panic attacks (which is gone now) but I haven't found it particular for sleep. I'll try again tonight for sure.

did u speak with rob? he said the site was gunna go down again on sunday until they find a new web master not sure if you're involved in this?

did u use melatonin at all? better to stay away?

I didn't speak to him. Was too busy all day. We texted briefly between my appointments. And no, I'm not involved at all.

Oh yeah, I used the hell out of melatonin when I was bad. I'll still use it after a day of drinking...lol. It's safe to use responsibly. You're good there.

With the breathing, if you do like five to six rounds and then lay down right afterwords, you should be able to slip into a nice sleep. Have you tried it like that before?

[Durantia37]

I didn't speak to him. Was too busy all day. We texted briefly between my appointments. And no, I'm not involved at all.

Oh yeah, I used the hell out of melatonin when I was bad. I'll still use it after a day of drinking...lol. It's safe to use responsibly. You're good there.

With the breathing, if you do like five to six rounds and then lay down right afterwords, you should be able to slip into a nice sleep. Have you tried it like that before?

What's responsible use of melatonin? Once a week or so?

[Cdsnuts]

What's responsible use of melatonin? Once a week or so?

I mean don't dose it redonkulously high like some people do. Even the mg's they have it in is technically too high seeing as the body produces it in micrograms. 1-3mg is still a "high" dose. I've heard of some people taking 5-10mgs to sleep. That is irresponsible use, IMO. using 1-3mg a few times a week is being safe.

[jacknap]

I didn't speak to him. Was too busy all day. We texted briefly between my appointments. And no, I'm not involved at all.

Oh yeah, I used the hell out of melatonin when I was bad. I'll still use it after a day of drinking...lol. It's safe to use responsibly. You're good there.

With the breathing, if you do like five to six rounds and then lay down right afterwords, you should be able to slip into a nice sleep. Have you tried it like that before?

I did 2 rounds last night. can't say it helped slip into sleep better but the downswing is improving now. Woke up with some good libido.

yes when I do use it I use 3mg. I like using it if my sleep rhythm gets too late. I'm able to lower it by 1 hour by dosing melatonin and get an early start to my next day.

cd i know you said u were busy but if u hit Rob up by email before sunday (cuz he said it's gunna go down again) we might have a better shot of salvaging the site. I'm sure it won't take more than 30 minutes to ensure it gets locked down for another year or so

[Cdsnuts]

I did 2 rounds last night. can't say it helped slip into sleep better but the downswing is improving now. Woke up with some good libido.

yes when I do use it I use 3mg. I like using it if my sleep rhythm gets too late. I'm able to lower it by 1 hour by dosing melatonin and get an early start to my next day.

cd i know you said u were busy but if u hit Rob up by email before sunday (cuz he said it's gunna go down again) we might have a better shot of salvaging the site. I'm sure it won't take more than 30 minutes to ensure it gets locked down for another year or so

When doing the breathing exercises to help induce sleep, you need to do more, as I had mentioned. 5-6 rounds preferably, not only two.

And not sure what you mean about locking it down for another year? I can tell you that if there is going to be money involved, it's not going to happen on my end. Not sure why, but I think people have been purchasing herbs through other places other then my website, so there has been barely anything coming in dollar wise. If everyone would have been purchasing the products through my site, then I would consider using that money to prop up this site. That's not the case though and I'm not going to spend my own money on doing so.

It's unfortunate for sure, but these things cost money that just isnt' there.

[Durantia37]

When doing the breathing exercises to help induce sleep, you need to do more, as I had mentioned. 5-6 rounds preferably, not only two.

And not sure what you mean about locking it down for another year? I can tell you that if there is going to be money involved, it's not going to happen on my end. Not sure why, but I think people have been purchasing herbs through other places other then my website, so there has been barely anything coming in dollar wise. If everyone would have been purchasing the products through my site, then I would consider using that money to prop up this site. That's not the case though and I'm not going to spend my own money on doing so.

It's unfortunate for sure, but these things cost money that just isnt' there.

The herbs last a long-ass time when you cycle 21 of them. For one thing.

[Cdsnuts]

The herbs last a long-ass time when you cycle 21 of them. For one thing.

They sure do.

[jacknap]

When doing the breathing exercises to help induce sleep, you need to do more, as I had mentioned. 5-6 rounds preferably, not only two.

And not sure what you mean about locking it down for another year? I can tell you that if there is going to be money involved, it's not going to happen on my end. Not sure why, but I think people have been purchasing herbs through other places other then my website, so there has been barely anything coming in dollar wise. If everyone would have been purchasing the products through my site, then I would consider using that money to prop up this site. That's not the case though and I'm not going to spend my own money on doing so.

It's unfortunate for sure, but these things cost money that just isnt' there.

I use your affiliate links. I'll ask how much it would cost to keep it up and i'll try to do it even though I'm broke as a joke. The continuity of this forum is important to me.

[jacknap]

used 5 grams of l-citruline last night and i really liked it.

glad I possibly found a natural erection booster without having to deal with doctors/ prescriptions / synthetic shit.

[Damn]

When doing the breathing exercises to help induce sleep, you need to do more, as I had mentioned. 5-6 rounds preferably, not only two.

And not sure what you mean about locking it down for another year? I can tell you that if there is going to be money involved, it's not going to happen on my end. Not sure why, but I think people have been purchasing herbs through other places other then my website, so there has been barely anything coming in dollar wise. If everyone would have been purchasing the products through my site, then I would consider using that money to prop up this site. That's not the case though and I'm not going to spend my own money on doing so.

It's unfortunate for sure, but these things cost money that just isnt' there.


Guys, If that is really the case that some of you aren't buying your herbs through the TMO site, that is pretty douchey. For everything that CD has done for this community, why the hell would you not?

CD, I'm not sure if your new site will contain some sort of forum or messaging board, but if not, I think the continuation of this site is very important to many of us. I find the exchange of information, positive support and sense of community to be extremely critical to recovery. This can be a very isolating disease given the fact that non-sufferers can't or don't want to understand it. If you have a sense of how much it costs to host this for another year, perhaps those of us who find value in it can contribute to the cause via PayPal or something. I would definitely be in. Let me know your thoughts.

[basementdweller]

Guys, If that is really the case that some of you aren't buying your herbs through the TMO site, that is pretty douchey. For everything that CD has done for this community, why the hell would you not?

CD, I'm not sure if your new site will contain some sort of forum or messaging board, but if not, I think the continuation of this site is very important to many of us. I find the exchange of information, positive support and sense of community to be extremely critical to recovery. This can be a very isolating disease given the fact that non-sufferers can't or don't want to understand it. If you have a sense of how much it costs to host this for another year, perhaps those of us who find value in it can contribute to the cause via PayPal or something. I would definitely be in. Let me know your thoughts.

I'll make a donation to keep this site up for sure. There's always facebook too

[Cdsnuts]

I'm talking to Rob on Thursday.

I'll keep you guys posted.

- - - Updated - - -


I'll make a donation to keep this site up for sure. There's always facebook too

I'm already starting to slowly get likes on the facebook page, which admittedly, needs a little sprucing up.

https://www.facebook.com/Totalmaleoptimization/

Please like and or follow to keep in touch

[jacknap]

I'm in a bit of an upswing again but one weird thing that happened was my appetite has been very low past 3-4 days and there was one night randomly where I woke up in the middle of the night and threw up (I think cuz I was kinda forcing food down my throat)

not sure what it could be.. maybe my body fighting a cold or something like that

[Cdsnuts]

I'm in a bit of an upswing again but one weird thing that happened was my appetite has been very low past 3-4 days and there was one night randomly where I woke up in the middle of the night and threw up (I think cuz I was kinda forcing food down my throat)

not sure what it could be.. maybe my body fighting a cold or something like that

Don't force yourself to eat. If you're not hungry, don't.

[jacknap]

3rd day off prohormones could be a new baseline or just a very nice upswing.

sleep is almost back to normal if not normal. (waking up to pee once a night)

libido was super high when i tested it out monday with a gal.

right now just have some soreness at the taint and sometimes balls. gunna get another sti check to make sure i didn't catch anything or if it's the pfs doing that lol I've been using condoms tho xept for during oral so would be kinda weird if i did. (when i got it last time i didnt use condoms sometimes cuz of the numbness)

i'm hopeful that now that i'm feeling better that healing will ramp up even faster...

this is different from my last cycle in that i felt better on cycle than not. now i feel better post cycle.
was more grumpy on cycle and now mood is up. could also be the great weather

[jacknap]

sleep wasn't as deep but I'll live with it.. got 7 hours

woke up with very nice libido. I tried adding back black maca daily as apposed to cycled and I think this time it's actually boosting my libido.

i used to take a generic maca genalatinized daily before i crashed and I think black maca as advertised is way better for us dudes.

[mike26]

Hey,

I have been reading your thread, I'm curious to ask, do you get normal morning wood?

Also, is it normal for PFS victims to get morning wood/nocturnal erections?

[jacknap]

Hey,

I have been reading your thread, I'm curious to ask, do you get normal morning wood?

Also, is it normal for PFS victims to get morning wood/nocturnal erections?

I get morning wood SOMETIMES. like 50% of time past few months. and I get spontaneous erections on upswings which is like 25% of the time. I got them today.

[Cdsnuts]

I get morning wood SOMETIMES. like 50% of time past few months. and I get spontaneous erections on upswings which is like 25% of the time. I got them today.

Now that I get morning wood most days, it's actually annoying AF. I have to do the old pull it between the legs so that I dont jam it into the bed when I'm turning around.

[jacknap]

slept for 7.5 hours but missed that last sleep cycle past 2 days. woke up with raging wood this morning though

also made this sexy 18 year old french girl cum like 3 times and squirt so that's a boost in the sexual confidence right there lol

having some ball ache here and there. hope it's not an STI again waiting for results... i've been good and staying strapped whole time so can't fathom how it could be unless I got it from oral...

libido is still weird. I have to get myself going logically like think okay now sexually escalate rather than just being pulled to do it and then it sorta kicks online during foreplay. but better than nothing. although sometimes I have this pull during upswings and/or if I haven't had sex for a while.

would having so many powders be harsh on the kidneys? bacopa, lions mane, goji maca, pine pollen, whey + daily herb + sleep herbs. lotsa powders. I noticed my lower back is a bit sore and I don't think it's workout related. Feels similar to when I was fasting I had lower back soreness which i think is related to the kidneys. hmm

intresting article by LEH

All About Jing - Lost Empire Herbs (https://lostempireherbs.com/all-about-jing/)

[jacknap]

I'm like 90% past 2 weeks post cycle.

face is pretty much back to normal. body compisition normal. Can fuck everyday but round 2s are sometimes challenging still and slight numbness sexually i'd say i'm like 80%

sleep is normal most days but sometimes miss like 30-1 hour of maximum sleep

I realized that numb spot in my head is more of a jaw thing cuz I think my wisdom tooth came out strange and is pushing on a nerve or something. it's benign tho so probably not even gunna remove it there's no impact.

mentally i'm pretty much 100% tho I get moody / forgetful when I don't sleep as well cuz like I said that's not fully normal yet but like 85-95% normal sleep.

I think after my third cycle I might be fully recovered so by september. I'm loving life right now.

[RickTheRuler]

Congrats man. When did you crash??

I jumped on protocol a week after mine in a March.

I know Prohormones speed things up.

I want to recover without them and then Use them when I’m 100%

Trying my best to be real patient & not use Andro. I feel like I have so much room to improve without it. I have nothing morally against or whatever.

My biggest hurdle is self doubt in this by far, cause I’m all over the protocol to the point That I don’t hang out, I don’t have time. I’m on every detail down to the nofap. Legit have not stroked it since March 24. I don’t think I’m gonna fap for the rest of my life.. Only holes in the protocol similar to yours is the dish soaps and detergent, & everything not being organic.. but i haven’t had a single comped carb (no backloading), alcoholic bev, gluten etc.

- - - Updated - - -

& what’s your take on pine pollen daily? I’m just sticking to normal 21 day rotation.. I see that a lot in recovered guys

[RickTheRuler]

Complex* carb

[jacknap]

I use pine pollen daily like 10 grams in protein shakes I crashed june 2nd took RU58841 April 24 2017 tho

when I crashed I was like -10%

rotating herbs before fasting got me 40% (plus nutrition/exercise etc.)
water fast/jucie cleanse got me to like 70%
prohormones to like 80-85%
and steady gains since (all along with doing pretty much everything in the protocol)

I want to do ARL mineral analysis too that they talk about over at hackstasis but I wanna do 4 full cycles like cd and maxout did before I do that to take things to the next level

[Durantia37]

I use pine pollen daily like 10 grams in protein shakes I crashed june 2nd took RU58841 April 24 2017 tho

when I crashed I was like -10%

rotating herbs before fasting got me 40% (plus nutrition/exercise etc.)
water fast/jucie cleanse got me to like 70%
prohormones to like 80-85%
and steady gains since (all along with doing pretty much everything in the protocol)

I want to do ARL mineral analysis too that they talk about over at hackstasis but I wanna do 4 full cycles like cd and maxout did before I do that to take things to the next level

You noticed a 30% increase from fasting?

[Cdsnuts]

You noticed a 30% increase from fasting?

Fasting, or cleansing in general is a big part of the program.

You seem surprised by that number.....

[Durantia37]

Fasting, or cleansing in general is a big part of the program.

You seem surprised by that number.....

My experience was a decrease in baseline, but a more balanced system and a greater tendency for improvements to "stick" thereafter. So it is indeed surprising to hear that a cleanse increased someone's baseline.

I'm starting another one tonight, maybe I'll be so lucky.

[jacknap]

My experience was a decrease in baseline, but a more balanced system and a greater tendency for improvements to "stick" thereafter. So it is indeed surprising to hear that a cleanse increased someone's baseline.

I'm starting another one tonight, maybe I'll be so lucky.

yeah I did. made me never dip below 70% after I did it

[Durantia37]

yeah I did. made me never dip below 70% after I did it

Gotcha, thanks.

[mike26]

I have done research on water fasting, I have read a few books on it, and read a lot of feedback, through people who have experienced it.

What I never saw anywhere in the PFS world, was someone who did a 40 day + water fast. I have seen plenty of people do a 40 day water fast, but not for PFS. I even checked PH to see if anyone did it, but none shared an experience of such.

For example, one of the biggest nutritional doctors in America, famously known as DR Fuhrman Joel Fuhrman - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Fuhrman)

He fasted for 42-46 days (I read his book, forgot the exact number) in the 1970's to recover a foot injury, and when he saw that the fast helped, and nothing else worked, he pursued a medical carer that would focus on natural remedies. He is undoubtedly one of the biggest natural doctors of our time.

Many Doctors, who fast patients for various conditions, will fast their patients once ever six months if the condition needs more then one fast, its not all that uncommon. Pretty sure CD has said every time he did a fast he felt another level of health.

[Cdsnuts]

I have done research on water fasting, I have read a few books on it, and read a lot of feedback, through people who have experienced it.

What I never saw anywhere in the PFS world, was someone who did a 40 day + water fast. I have seen plenty of people do a 40 day water fast, but not for PFS. I even checked PH to see if anyone did it, but none shared an experience of such.

For example, one of the biggest nutritional doctors in America, famously known as DR Fuhrman Joel Fuhrman - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Fuhrman)

He fasted for 42-46 days (I read his book, forgot the exact number) in the 1970's to recover a foot injury, and when he saw that the fast helped, and nothing else worked, he pursued a medical carer that would focus on natural remedies. He is undoubtedly one of the biggest natural doctors of our time.

Many Doctors, who fast patients for various conditions, will fast their patients once ever six months if the condition needs more then one fast, its not all that uncommon. Pretty sure CD has said every time he did a fast he felt another level of health.

I did get a nice boost after every fast/cleanse.

[Lakehouse99]

Yo Jacknap, really nice journey you got going. I got a question in regards to the anhedonia you recovered from. Was it a fully body emotional and sensation numbing? How bad was it percentage wise? And what do you think helped you recover from that, the supplements? or just the fasting + diet?

im asking cause this is my worst symptom, and im curious about other's experience

[Cdsnuts]

Yo Jacknap, really nice journey you got going. I got a question in regards to the anhedonia you recovered from. Was it a fully body emotional and sensation numbing? How bad was it percentage wise? And what do you think helped you recover from that, the supplements? or just the fasting + diet?

im asking cause this is my worst symptom, and im curious about other's experience

I'm going to jump in here and say that it would be almost impossible to pinpoint what part of the protocol will give you relief from a specific symptom. In any case, the ENTIRE protocol works in conjunction with all it's parts to bring about relief, eventually, to all symptoms.

You guys shouldn't be trying to cut corners and just do certain parts of the thing....that's not how this works. Even though that's not what you maybe trying to do, usually when guys ask that question, it's because they're trying to skirt the entire thing.

[Lakehouse99]

I'm going to jump in here and say that it would be almost impossible to pinpoint what part of the protocol will give you relief from a specific symptom. In any case, the ENTIRE protocol works in conjunction with all it's parts to bring about relief, eventually, to all symptoms.

You guys shouldn't be trying to cut corners and just do certain parts of the thing....that's not how this works. Even though that's not what you maybe trying to do, usually when guys ask that question, it's because they're trying to skirt the entire thing.

im definitely going doing the whole program, just wanted to see if something in particular helped him.

this anhedonia is really annoying, more than anything, so i was just curious

[jacknap]

anehdonia went away before i even fasted at like 3 months in of herb cycling for me and it was really but but was also the quickest thing to fix for me. i couldn't enjoy anything except for food when i was really hungry.

in a bit of a down swing now though. face is a bit puffy again, sleep a little less restful and libido seems down. did wake up with really strong morning would but still feels a bit numb down below. probably handling this downswing the best i ever have tho

[RickTheRuler]

I think once you find yourself humming or singing along with certain songs that’s signs that the Anahedonia is fading.

Anahedonia,Insonmia, No stress tolerance (something simple traffic will make you almost cry)cab Panic Attack’s easily top 4worst symptoms of this.. in the grand scheme of things I care the least about is my dick.

Mental is pretty much gone, any anxiety is me inducing it myself vs PFS (big difference)

If I get my muscle pumps back I will be indescribably happy like I’m recovered. That’s how much I don’t care about the sexual part.

This mindset really shows how terrible the nuerelogical sides can be.

[RickTheRuler]

My bad with these damn typos. My fingers are too big for my phone

Insomnia, Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Anahedonia, Depresson, Vision, Inability To hold eye contact for a long time etc.. are the really shitty parts of PFS. It gets so bad that you don’t care about the physical stuff, you just want a peace of mind in some way shape or form.

Which is why I say if muscle pumps come back for me, my level of happiness would be like someone who’s fully recovered.

People who get the full spectrum of mental sides will be happy just seeing improvements period..

Then you have people who only get sexual and they freak out illogically. I get it , libido and erection issues suck, but it could be soooo much worse for those guys. They have no idea

[jacknap]

got invited to an old friends wedding.. dont really wanna go tbh but anyone have any tips on events like this where dinner is served? I guess i can just relax on the organic avoid gluten and avoid drinking

[Lakehouse99]

Anhedonia will improve alongside everything else. Trust me, the state I was in for a good 4 months, was an indescribable hell... completely numb emotionally and physically at times

Do stuff that motivates and excites you as often as possible too. Cold showers or swimming, drink coffee if you tolerate it, blast music, travel, buy a motorcycle, whatever. This is the time to be selfish, fuck everything else

sounds good man. im confident it will go away if I stick to the protocol 100%. It's just that this symptom is so bizarre. Never even thought this could happen before you know? lol


anehdonia went away before i even fasted at like 3 months in of herb cycling for me and it was really but but was also the quickest thing to fix for me. i couldn't enjoy anything except for food when i was really hungry.

in a bit of a down swing now though. face is a bit puffy again, sleep a little less restful and libido seems down. did wake up with really strong morning would but still feels a bit numb down below. probably handling this downswing the best i ever have tho


thanks

[Cdsnuts]

sounds good man. im confident it will go away if I stick to the protocol 100%. It's just that this symptom is so bizarre. Never even thought this could happen before you know? lol




thanks

Basement makes a great point.

You NEED to be selfish about getting your health back. If there was any time in your life to be that way, NOW is the time. This time is all about you....all of it. That's how important this is. The thing is, it might sound bad, but by taking this time and doing this for yourself, EVERYONE else in your life will benefit to the new strong, mentally balanced you. You being a better man, is better for every person you come into contact with in your life.

[jacknap]

nasty down swing. woke up after 5 hours. will probably just take a power nap or two later on in the day if I feel I need.

face looks ugly as fuck too lmao. so puffy.

getting heart contractions like crazy at night. cortisol? low pottassium? should i supplement pottassium or add coconut water? they're quite painful. is this from pine pollen tanking pottassium?

libido very low and numb genitals.

also energy very low. seems my up swings and down swings are often like 2 weeks cycle. Felt great 2 weeks post andro and then now in a down swing.

[Lakehouse99]

Basement makes a great point.

You NEED to be selfish about getting your health back. If there was any time in your life to be that way, NOW is the time. This time is all about you....all of it. That's how important this is. The thing is, it might sound bad, but by taking this time and doing this for yourself, EVERYONE else in your life will benefit to the new strong, mentally balanced you. You being a better man, is better for every person you come into contact with in your life.

I definitely prescribe to that philosophy. Gotta be strong yourself to take care of friends and family

[Cdsnuts]

I definitely prescribe to that philosophy. Gotta be strong yourself to take care of friends and family

That's what this is ultimately all about.....for me it was, anyway.

[Cdsnuts]

nasty down swing. woke up after 5 hours. will probably just take a power nap or two later on in the day if I feel I need.

face looks ugly as fuck too lmao. so puffy.

getting heart contractions like crazy at night. cortisol? low pottassium? should i supplement pottassium or add coconut water? they're quite painful. is this from pine pollen tanking pottassium?

libido very low and numb genitals.

also energy very low. seems my up swings and down swings are often like 2 weeks cycle. Felt great 2 weeks post andro and then now in a down swing.

I would also use some supplemental magnesium. Do you have the natural calm stuff. What you're experiencing could be a symptom of all three. Honestly, I don't think the pine pollen is strong enough to tank potassium on it's own, unless you're super low coming off a cycle. On it's own, it wouldn't happen....

[jacknap]

I would also use some supplemental magnesium. Do you have the natural calm stuff. What you're experiencing could be a symptom of all three. Honestly, I don't think the pine pollen is strong enough to tank potassium on it's own, unless you're super low coming off a cycle. On it's own, it wouldn't happen....

yeah I use everything u recommend on TMO. I use magnesium every evening.

Sleep was shit again today. Could only get 5 hours and layed in bed for like an hour couldn't get back to sleep so said fuck it I'll just enjoy the extra time. woke up with monster libido and morning wood tho.

[jacknap]

past 2-3 days my hands have been really numb and fatigued. hoping it's just fatigue from hand work and lack of sleep.

got paranoid cuz i was having lemon water with shilajit in the morning which according to lost empire is a no go cuz it frees up aluminum in the shilajit. peripheral neuropathy? carpal tunnel? hopefully neither. didn't @hulk get something similar?

went to doctor and we did some tests on my hands and he thinks it's just strain from lifting and should be good in 2-3 days. hope so. gunna lay off shilajit for a week too just in case and not mix with citrus.

hope it's not related to that heart pain I had on/off. strangely it did seem to only happen during herb rotation from what I recall eeek.

[Cdsnuts]

past 2-3 days my hands have been really numb and fatigued. hoping it's just fatigue from hand work and lack of sleep.

got paranoid cuz i was having lemon water with shilajit in the morning which according to lost empire is a no go cuz it frees up aluminum in the shilajit. peripheral neuropathy? carpal tunnel? hopefully neither. didn't @hulk get something similar?

went to doctor and we did some tests on my hands and he thinks it's just strain from lifting and should be good in 2-3 days. hope so. gunna lay off shilajit for a week too just in case and not mix with citrus.

hope it's not related to that heart pain I had on/off. strangely it did seem to only happen during herb rotation from what I recall eeek.

Stop using a Kung Fu grip while masturbating.