Addressing Herbs & Muscle before I Dissapear

[RickTheRuler]

Whassup guys. hope everyone’s doing well. Before I get into questions I’ll lay this out for you. It’s what I been doing Herb wise.

-6 AM
Pine Pollen, Test Rotation Herb, Gotu Kola, Bacopa, & Lions Mane in one drink
- Wash down Vit D, Chlorella, & Theanine while drinking

3 PM (after work)
- 2nd dose of Test Rotation Herb

evening or Post Workout
- 2nd dose of Pine Pollen, Only Protein, ( Spirulina every other day ) mixed in drink.

Before Bed
-Albizia, Ziziphus, Glyicine in one drink. Want to add magnesium in here
-Magnesium oil

Combining all these, all the drinks are nasty, I don’t care about taste though. I bought 3-5 of every single herb and supplement. Dropped a lot of money just so everything can be laid out and I just live life.

Questions: get back to me whenever on each point , I won’t be back here for months. Please address questions 1-6 with details just the way I like it lol. Answer all of em please.

1. If there’s anything that should be tweaked let me know.
2. Should Iodine be taken every 21 days like the rest, or weekly? Confused here.
3. Anything else besides Pine Pollen that can be taken daily from Test herbs?
4. Is it normal not to feel much from herbs. Only with tribulus I noticed more erections. That’s about it.
5. Is there a proper way to take herbs? Just swallow the powder? What drink to mix it with? Suggestions, anything besides Coffee.
6. Unrelated but in terms of lifting and not feeling gym pumps, does time fix this issue? Does DHT pro hormones kick start the whole process?
I’m 174 lbs down from 225 after water fast & diet..i look lean & tan abs and all..swimmers body.. I get compliments. But it’s all visual, my muscles are soft. the other day I deadlifted 405x10. I probably can max out low-mid 500s. Its pretty wild how strong I am at this size & I’m only getting stronger but feels like I’m not putting on muscle. I’m not feeling that response basically. Can anyone address this? ^

I’d appreciate every point being responded to, I know it’s a lot, it’s just that I don’t plan on lurking here. I have a lot of stuff to do, I just graduated, looking to get certifications in my job to get promoted & move up.. getting back into my first love which was pitching (baseball) pursuing that. (always been a dream) so there’s no need for me to be here if everything is laid out. also seeing my friends who I haven’t since early March.

Thank you guys, really thankful!

[jacknap]

I don't see why u gotta deadlift so heavy dawg. no one who's in their 40s performs that high of a level without snapping some sort of shit up or injuries.

looks wise deadlift even just 2x you're better off than 99% of other guys and get all the health benefits with none of the downside. unless u know something i don't lol.

iodine u can use twice a week as cd says. I hit weights twice a week so I just do it same as that to remember :)

[RickTheRuler]

What’s going on Jacknap.
Where are you recovery wise %?

& thanks about the Iodine.
I just see guys taking Shilijat & other stuff every day. I know it’s different with everyone but all that stuff confuses me..

Naw man I only deadlift once a week. & it’s heavy but relative to where I was pre PFS it really isn’t in my perspective. I think it’s important to keep that intensity, it’s obviously gonna be different weight for everyone. As long as form is good..405x10 sounds like a lot but When I was 225 I was pulling 705 ish.. I skipped the pushups/pull-ups part & just started lifting moderate weight for high reps, I felt weaker after my fast but not to the point where I had to start from scratch fitness wise.. I’m 22 years old lol what you mean 40’s..

Imma just keep going. Maybe 6 months to a year down the road I’ll juice feast.

Been having trouble with getting organic stuff due to money but I’ve been away from all gluten & not even backloading as I stated before. Salads, Spinach, Kale, Avacadoes, Meat, Salmon, Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Eggs, Fruit, Freshly squeezed OJ..

CD told me a while back on Facebook organic is the healthiest option but it won’t make or break recovery so i keep it as a reminder when the doubt creeps in.

[Maxout777]

What’s going on Jacknap.
Where are you recovery wise %?

& thanks about the Iodine.
I just see guys taking Shilijat & other stuff every day. I know it’s different with everyone but all that stuff confuses me..

Naw man I only deadlift once a week. & it’s heavy but relative to where I was pre PFS it really isn’t in my perspective. I think it’s important to keep that intensity, it’s obviously gonna be different weight for everyone. As long as form is good..405x10 sounds like a lot but When I was 225 I was pulling 705 ish.. I skipped the pushups/pull-ups part & just started lifting moderate weight for high reps, I felt weaker after my fast but not to the point where I had to start from scratch fitness wise.. I’m 22 years old lol what you mean 40’s..

Imma just keep going. Maybe 6 months to a year down the road I’ll juice feast.

Been having trouble with getting organic stuff due to money but I’ve been away from all gluten & not even backloading as I stated before. Salads, Spinach, Kale, Avacadoes, Meat, Salmon, Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Eggs, Fruit, Freshly squeezed OJ..

CD told me a while back on Facebook organic is the healthiest option but it won’t make or break recovery so i keep it as a reminder when the doubt creeps in.

Just a word to the wise, I believe I held myself back a bit by lifting so heavy during the beginning of my recovery. Once I cut back to maintaining workouts, it seemed to accelerate.

Just my two cents.

[Durantia37]

Just a word to the wise, I believe I held myself back a bit by lifting so heavy during the beginning of my recovery. Once I cut back to maintaining workouts, it seemed to accelerate.

Just my two cents.

Agreed, it's hard to get anywhere when your body is constantly in recovery from an intense workout. I've even gone stretches of bodyweight only when I can't seem to get out of the fatigue cycle.

[RickTheRuler]

Damn... I actually love lifting hard, makes me feel good. How I go about working out then?

[RickTheRuler]

& I have been feeling shitty the past two days but trucking through nontheless. Really not trying to freak out about it & just stick with it

[Cdsnuts]

It's a delicate balance that only you can judge. If you're not sleeping well and your PFS is aggravated, you can over do it, which isn't good for the whole system. You can feel when you are over doing it, IMO.

If you're feeling good after a work out great. If you're pushing yourself too hard, your body will tell you by increased fatigue and weariness that won't go away in a some what normal time frame.

The whole point is to build health. You have to feel this out on an individual basis and keep yourself on the edge of it by constantly increasing or decreasing your inputs.

You can lift without burning yourself out. Again, only you can judge this.

[RickTheRuler]

What’s going on with me feeling like shit lately, depressed & tearing. Normal downswing?

What a rollercoaster man

[RickTheRuler]

Yeah. Scary shit man. At this point I’m just thinking of getting through the day itself. It’s bad right now.

[Cdsnuts]

Yeah. Scary shit man. At this point I’m just thinking of getting through the day itself. It’s bad right now.

Typical PFS downswing.

What are your actual symptoms? Mostly mental? Anxiety? Depression?

And yeah, they can be life stopping at times.

Just take solace in the fact that you are doing everything that you are supposed to be doing and that this too shall pass.

Better days ahead...much better.

[RickTheRuler]

Mental. Depression, Anxiety, Suicidal.

Feels like my mind is playing tricks on me.

Called out from work & went to the gym.

I’m just waiting for some type of improvement. Whatever it is. I felt no type of improvement yet. Im not being negative, it’s just where I’m at, I’m looking for some type of light.

[Cdsnuts]

Mental. Depression, Anxiety, Suicidal.

Feels like my mind is playing tricks on me.

Called out from work & went to the gym.

I’m just waiting for some type of improvement. Whatever it is. I felt no type of improvement yet. Im not being negative, it’s just where I’m at, I’m looking for some type of light.

Yeah, well you're going to be waiting for a bit. That's the deal my man. You have to keep putting in the work regardless. You'll start to see improvements over time.

[RickTheRuler]

Will do.

[jacknap]

I notice that for me upswings last 2 weeks and downswings 2 weeks. rn i'm in a upswing and i feel like i'll fully recover soon. when i'm in a downswing my mind makes me think what I have is permanent lol. once it happens enough times tho it gets easier

[Fausto Soares]

Will do.

Pay attention too on the herbs you support or not...i tried to implement for example, shilajit everyday, and it was supressing my mood, so, i applied it just one day per cycle and felt better....each one has a reaction.....good lucky!

- - - Updated - - -


I notice that for me upswings last 2 weeks and downswings 2 weeks. rn i'm in a upswing and i feel like i'll fully recover soon. when i'm in a downswing my mind makes me think what I have is permanent lol. once it happens enough times tho it gets easier

Exactly, our mind attribute the depressed, suicidal state as permanent.

[RickTheRuler]

It’s my first downswing & I guess I’m just in shock by the whole thing & let it kind of get the best of me from a mental stand point.

If this is what I have to constantly deal with then so be it. But now I Know. I know what a downswing is, & now I see what it is..

I had a bunch of crazy thoughts, moods, & feelings today but I did not judge them. Through the madness, Somewhere, my brain is telling me that this in fact is not my real brain. I take solace in that while I’m living in my personal hell.

Fausto you may be right, but Since I’m not feeling any herbs right now I don’t really know what’s doing what, it’s just part of the process for me. The less complicated you guys lay it out for me the better it is for me .

Bring it on downswing..

[RickTheRuler]

when it gets tough & I feel like giving in to the shit, I just think of what someone like CD who had no one to lean on, no blueprint, no one to tell him his downswings are normal, no one to guide him etc, just him & his brutal trial & error, while at the same time dealing with Propecia help. It puts it in perspective, & it tells me to stop being a pussy, even without 5AR still, stop being a pussy.. even when Depression/Anxiety takes your mind for a ride I still have that thought in the back of my head.

[Cdsnuts]

You're constantly going to be second guessing yourself. That's part of the mental game that get's guys hopping from one protocol to the next because they think it's not working. Once you experience a couple up swings/down swings with baseline improvement, you'll understand it internally how it works. Now, you may understand it logically. But with experience, you'll understand it on a much deeper level. With this understanding you'll get an idea of how long it may take for you. Some guys are over it in six months or so, others, it takes a few years. Everyone is different. Just know though, you will get through to the other side. No doubt.

Just keep it steady, make it a way of life, and get on with it. You have the right attitude. These horrible feelings will not last forever. I would always just tell myself, "and this too shall pass" I told myself this ALOT.

Get into the breathing exercises and meditation. These are aspects I wish I picked up in the very beginning because they are game changers. Also, cold water exposure...definite game changer.

You got this bro. One day at a time. One minute at a time if need be. Some days are going to be that way. As long as you're doing everything you're supposed to, you'll get there.

[RickTheRuler]

give me some info on this guys..

My stool color has been green to a greenish brown for the most part during protocol..If I eat watermelon it even has some red streaks on it.. in the stool sometimes I can see little peices or carrot or almonds (or so it seems)

When i first crashed & had no idea what was going on I was obviously eating shit food & gluten like we all were. During this time, I remember being super constipated, bloated, hearing gurgles all day long etc. felt like my food was going nowhere... felt like my digestive system literally did not work, for days, then an explosive diarrea would come.. legit no bowel movements for days, then it would transition to a shit load of bowel moments in hours which included poo pellets and diarrhea..
.....fast forward to today 2 months later.. I’m quite regular. I go 2x a day usually, sometimes 3.. no diarrhea.. I may get Some gas sometimes & there’s little moments where I feel a little gurgle but I made no big deal out of it cause it’s something i expected with eating a ton of vegetables. Obviously there’s something not right that I can’t really explain honestly, But I don’t experience pain at all; or the bloating at that level when I crashed (only happens if I stuff my face, or regular downswing shit ) my only thing is the stool being the color of the food I take in it seems.. which is odd & definitely not me pre PFS... what could this possibly be?

Ultimately my question is, is this stool color thing normal for a PFS’er?

I see the points on what people say about the gut being the main factor but I’m more on bizzbee & CD’s side of the belief that it’s the 5AR inhibitation that leads to whatever gut issue rather than what other people say.. just my hunch, but I’m not too well versed on the gut aspect of this, so your guys input would mean a lot.. CD does not really mention the gut like others do cause of his belief in 5AR being the big issue here that leads to everything else in some way..

All I really know 100% ‘ is that the diet outlined over time can’t be bad for your gut obviously..

If anything you guys can give me something to use to support digestion. I really don’t want to go bananas outside of the protocol, but if you guys believe I could use something then let me know.

Trying to set it and forget it... thanks again y’all.

[Damn]

give me some info on this guys..

My stool color has been green to a greenish brown for the most part during protocol..If I eat watermelon it even has some red streaks on it.. in the stool sometimes I can see little peices or carrot or almonds (or so it seems)

When i first crashed & had no idea what was going on I was obviously eating shit food & gluten like we all were. During this time, I remember being super constipated, bloated, hearing gurgles all day long etc. felt like my food was going nowhere... felt like my digestive system literally did not work, for days, then an explosive diarrea would come.. legit no bowel movements for days, then it would transition to a shit load of bowel moments in hours which included poo pellets and diarrhea..
.....fast forward to today 2 months later.. I’m quite regular. I go 2x a day usually, sometimes 3.. no diarrhea.. I may get Some gas sometimes & there’s little moments where I feel a little gurgle but I made no big deal out of it cause it’s something i expected with eating a ton of vegetables. Obviously there’s something not right that I can’t really explain honestly, But I don’t experience pain at all; or the bloating at that level when I crashed (only happens if I stuff my face, or regular downswing shit ) my only thing is the stool being the color of the food I take in it seems.. which is odd & definitely not me pre PFS... what could this possibly be?

Ultimately my question is, is this stool color thing normal for a PFS’er?

I see the points on what people say about the gut being the main factor but I’m more on bizzbee & CD’s side of the belief that it’s the 5AR inhibitation that leads to whatever gut issue rather than what other people say.. just my hunch, but I’m not too well versed on the gut aspect of this, so your guys input would mean a lot.. CD does not really mention the gut like others do cause of his belief in 5AR being the big issue here that leads to everything else in some way..

All I really know 100% ‘ is that the diet outlined over time can’t be bad for your gut obviously..

If anything you guys can give me something to use to support digestion. I really don’t want to go bananas outside of the protocol, but if you guys believe I could use something then let me know.

Trying to set it and forget it... thanks again y’all.

5AR/gut, chicken/egg...end of day is you gotta create a healthy environment for your body to heal itself holistically (endocrine system, nervous system, digestive system, etc. - it's all interdependent). However it happened, my gut (and I believe most/all other PFSers) was a disaster. My bowel movements were a crapshoot (no pun intended :)) throughout. My shit changed in color, consistency & frequency every month or two. As late as this past winter, I had a nasty bout of diarrhea for almost two months. This was followed by another couple months of green, soft stools until about three months ago when they transitioned to completely normal. I assume it is some combination of the body adapting to changes in the microbiome, changes in thyroid activity & changes in the autonomic nervous system (all have huge impacts on the speed and effectiveness of digestion), etc.. I figured I was eating as nutrient rich and non-inflammatory of a diet as I could be so I just kept with it. I took vitamins & supplements to help ensure I was getting as many micro nutrients as possible and did a number of things to promote gut health (detailed in my thread). Par for the course.

[Cdsnuts]

5AR/gut, chicken/egg...end of day is you gotta create a healthy environment for your body to heal itself holistically (endocrine system, nervous system, digestive system, etc. - it's all interdependent). However it happened, my gut (and I believe most/all other PFSers) was a disaster. My bowel movements were a crapshoot (no pun intended :)) throughout. My shit changed in color, consistency & frequency every month or two. As late as this past winter, I had a nasty bout of diarrhea for almost two months. This was followed by another couple months of green, soft stools until about three months ago when they transitioned to completely normal. I assume it is some combination of the body adapting to changes in the microbiome, changes in thyroid activity & changes in the autonomic nervous system (all have huge impacts on the speed and effectiveness of digestion), etc.. I figured I was eating as nutrient rich and non-inflammatory of a diet as I could be so I just kept with it. I took vitamins & supplements to help ensure I was getting as many micro nutrients as possible and did a number of things to promote gut health (detailed in my thread). Par for the course.

Rick...THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just keep on doing what you're doing. Things take time to really start coming together. But as long as you're doing everything that is outlined, you WILL get where you need to go.

[Pageidol]

Rick the ruler just out of curiosity my man, how long ago did you crash?

[RickTheRuler]

Pagediol, March 25, Started protocol 5 days after.

On a different note how do you guys upload pictures on here? I have an iPhone & I can’t seem to find a way through here

[basementdweller]

I think it should be noted that nuts and fruit can be inflammatory when your gut is still very sensitive. When I was consuming fruit, bananas and berries were the only things that wouldn't give me an obvious reaction.

For me the really dark depressive state happened while I was still consuming a food that was causing a lot of inflammation (which was orange juice in my case). Since my diet has been in order I feel that I am just waiting for my body to catch up to my mind. I still do get times were my digestion will fall slightly despite not changing a thing so variance should be expected.

If you are not in a good state giving the gym a rest or at the very least taking it easy is probably a good idea until you have control.

^^ 100% agree. Red meat can be very problematic too. I was doing great mentally while travelling, the last few days discovered birria (one of the most delicious things I've ever eaten), started feeling worse....ate two large bags of nuts on the plane and crashed HARD. couldn't even lift my bags I was so weak. This is not the first time eating large amounts of red meat has triggered something

[Jado]

Just stumbled across this post. Super encouraging for me, actually. I was diagnosed with Crohn's during this whole thing, and this is just further confirmation that all my s/s are Fin related.

RTR, how are you feeling these days? I'll feel like the mental side are the worst of the sides for me, and it's a huge struggle at times. I've definitely began to notice the upswing/downswing cycle, and it seems to be just how Jacknap described it. Just keeping fighting it, and find something positive to think about. That's what I try to do when I'm feeling like the mental sides are too much, that and pray. That's my form of meditation, and it definitely helps. I know this is an old post, but wanted to respond cuz I feel your pain. I hope you're feeling better, and have hit an upswing. Keep us posted.

[Cdsnuts]

Just stumbled across this post. Super encouraging for me, actually. I was diagnosed with Crohn's during this whole thing, and this is just further confirmation that all my s/s are Fin related.

RTR, how are you feeling these days? I'll feel like the mental side are the worst of the sides for me, and it's a huge struggle at times. I've definitely began to notice the upswing/downswing cycle, and it seems to be just how Jacknap described it. Just keeping fighting it, and find something positive to think about. That's what I try to do when I'm feeling like the mental sides are too much, that and pray. That's my form of meditation, and it definitely helps. I know this is an old post, but wanted to respond cuz I feel your pain. I hope you're feeling better, and have hit an upswing. Keep us posted.

Now because of the Crohn's diagnosis you have all the more reason to be on point diet wise. Not that PFS wasn't enough, but living with Crohns can be pretty rough if you're not on the right diet. Fasting is also extremely beneficial for Crohns patients. Sometimes a nice long rest of the digestive system can do wonders. Just something to think about.

[Cdsnuts]

^^ 100% agree. Red meat can be very problematic too. I was doing great mentally while travelling, the last few days discovered birria (one of the most delicious things I've ever eaten), started feeling worse....ate two large bags of nuts on the plane and crashed HARD. couldn't even lift my bags I was so weak. This is not the first time eating large amounts of red meat has triggered something

I've never had any issues with meat. Too many nuts on the other hand, especially if they're not raw, can really be a drag on the digestive system.